Chavez mocks Clinton as "blond Condoleezza"

[The Northerner]

CARACAS (Reuters) – Venezuela's President Hugo mocked U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Friday as a "blond" version of her predecessor, and said a row with Spain over alleged links with rebel groups was over.

Visiting Latin America this week, Clinton said the Obama administration's policies towards the region were helping blunt the criticism of the United States by leftist leaders like Chavez.

"To me, she's like Condoleezza Rice ... a blond Condoleezza," said the Venezuelan, referring to former U.S. president George W. Bush's secretary of state, with whom he exchanged frequent harsh words at long-distance.

Citing comments by Clinton in Brazil, Chavez said she was proving to be equally aggressive. "She comes to Brazil to provoke us, to try and divide us from our brothers."

While taking a familiar pop at the United States, Chavez was more conciliatory towards Spain.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100306/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_venezuela_chavez

[seeinfweggos]

1. probably a bad translation nt

[Bicoastal]

5. Or a deliberate mistranslation by the Right Wing media...

...who LOVE Hillary Clinton so much.

:sarcasm:

[seeinfweggos]

11. :-) nt

[EFerrari]

34. His expression was ugly but I don't see how the Clinton State Department

is different than the Rice State Department at this point. Last I heard, Clinton hilariously criticized Venezuela for allowing democracy to wane when Ven isn't the country that fakes its elections, spies on its citizens or tortures its prisoners in its illegal wars.

Chavez is correct. No matter who is in office, Latin America is mistreated by the United States.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Fire_Medic_Dave]

54. So you think his statement is accurate and appropriate?

[EFerrari]

57. I think exactly what I wrote. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

63. The part about it being ugly or the part about it being correct?

[EFerrari]

66. Both. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

305. So you think that Hillary is just a blond Condoleeza?

[Ken Burch]

344. She's clearly proved that her worldview is right-wing

You have to be a right-wing extremist to think it could ever be a good thing to bomb Iran.

[defendandprotect]

364. Absolutely . . . HRC is no humanist . . . !! Remember the children?

What a farce that is --!!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

397. To be clear, you actually think Hillary Rodham Clinton is a right wing extremist?

[Ken Burch]

415. Is there a reason you've asked THREE SEPARATE POSTERS that question?

Why is the thought so impermissible?

Hawkishness is right-wing. It's no longer possible for war to lead to anything positive or progressive, or even vaguely humanist.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

423. Yes each on of the three either made the comment or agreed with it!

Who said the thought was inpermissible?

[Ken Burch]

425. You appear to find it inconceivable

And your repetition of the question sounded as if you were incredulous at the very thought of it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

430. Asking one a question to clarify shouldn't leave any implication.

The repetition was to ask the same question to three different posters. Two of whom may have only been agreeing with part of your point, hence the question.

[defendandprotect]

434. Well, explain to us then why you find the thought so questionable .... ????

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

443. I had never seen Hillary put in the same group as Timothy McVeigh.

[Wilms]

453. Probably more a comparison to the last admin., not McVeigh.

Ya know. Like in the OP? The comparison between the two admin foreign policy? You were in on that discussion. Right?

:eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

454. Amazingly though you were the only one that took offense.

[Wilms]

461. More likely you're being ignored. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

471. That's quite typical of those who can't debate honestly.

[Wilms]

477. From my observation it is you, stuffing words into other's mouths, who can't debate honestly.

People, will ignore that after a bit.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

478. They said Hillary was a right wing extremist all by themselves.

Feel free to scroll up thread and see for yourself. I was only trying to establish how extreme she was and what that said about the administration overall. When they were asked if Obama was a right wing extremist, that's when they stopped responding.

[Wilms]

480. I think the opinions are expressed sufficiently.

I think your responses are excessive as well as unfair and leading. You've harassed and stalked on this thread. It's unpleasant, unproductive, and unbecoming of a medic.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

489. You'll get over it.

[defendandprotect]

462. And who, but YOU, has done that?

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

422. She's a war supporter, she supported Bush's illegal

from the beginning. Who knows whether she just does that because no American who wants to be president can oppose the Imperial Wars or the warmongers who are behind them, or because she actually likes war and is truly so delusional as to think that wars of choice benefit anyone other than criminal war profiteers.

Either way, her position is immoral whether to benefit her own political aspirations or because she thinks 'war is good'.

That is a rightwing position. Or it used to be perceived that way. Now of course Dems do seem to be taking over the role of being The War Party and outdoing the Republicans.

Hillary comes from a Republican background, so it's probably not surprising that she might be a believer in America's right to dominate other countries. Like many Conservatives, she has a few issues on which she is liberal, women's issues, although that position doesn't gel with being a lover of war.

Women suffer tremendously as a result of war. I have yet to hear her address the horrendous ramifications of the Afghan War on the women of that country, or to respond to them when they have begged the U.S. to leave their country as their presence there has only exacerbated the already untenable conditions under which they live. They have said loud and clear that what they need is NOT bombs and bullets and if that's all the U.S. has to offer, they need to leave.

For a women's advocate, she is amazingly tone deaf to the women who have lost their loved ones and their rights in the two wars she supports. I would find it very hard to reconcile those two positions which is why I am anti-war except for defense. So, since you asked, I suppose I would say she could be categorized as 'right'. Which is bad enough. Conservative applies to her views imo. I don't think anyone would call her an 'extremist' as we understand the word, although to me, anyone who can support the slaughter and torture and maiming and destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan fits MY definition of extreme.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

424. Since Obama has escalated the illegal war in afghanistan what does that make him?

[Ken Burch]

427. A great disappointment

Still, she was much more hawkish, even bellicose, in her foreign policy message during the primaries.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

431. And clearly she is setting policy now not Obama right?

[Ken Burch]

436. You're trying to twist this into some idea that I'm soft on Obama

And that's bullshit. Why can't you accept that she is pushing for one of the most right-wing agendas of anybody in the administration?

It's right-wing to keep pushing for globalization, and to keep pushing for military solutions to problems. The military should ONLY be a last resort, not the default option for all situations.

[defendandprotect]

439. HRC isn't a soldier . . if she is against the agenda, the war-mongering she can resign . .. .

And, basically, I think every soldier should have the right to resign based

on conscience . . .

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

444. So the right wing extremist Obama is giving the right wing extremist Hillary marching orders...

and her compliance with those orders makes her just as bad as Obama?

[defendandprotect]

457. If that's the way you see it -- I wouldn't disagree with you --

Was Condi "just as bad as Bush" . . . ? I think so --

If HRC has conscience, let her show it to us in ending these illegal and immoral wars --

Let HRC and Obama show us their regard for children and mothers in not sending drones

over Pakistan -- in ending the bombing of Iraq -- in reigning in Israel and it's illegal

and full fledged war on Palestine.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

473. That was a question not a statement. Nice try though.

[defendandprotect]

496. You mean you didn't like the answer . . .

Nice try though --

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

497. You've established that you think Hillary and Obama are right wing extremists. I disagree.

[defendandprotect]

499. That's YOUR definition which I won't disagree with -- nice try though . . !!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

500. Actually it was Ken Burch's definition, that you said you agreed with.

[defendandprotect]

503. And you used it in a question to me . . .

How far down the low road do you intend to go Fire_?

How desperately do you need this -- ?

I'm wondering and watching . . . fascinating and pitiful --


:rofl:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

504. Yes that was when you said you agreed with Ken. It's really not complicated.

[defendandprotect]

437. You're seeking not answers . . . but a way to LABEL your opponents here .....

Why not tell us why you're not questioning that these illegal and immoral

wars are still raging after all these years?

And why after our first invasion of Iraq we've continued to bomb them for 20 years?

Anything to do with oil?


PS: What it makes Obama is someone with an agenda I find disgusting, immoral

and illegal.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

446. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

:toast:

[defendandprotect]

458. Well, you're not exactly subtle -- !!

:eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

474. You're right, that is not something I'm accused of very often.

[sabrina 1]

448. It makes him a supporter of unnecessary wars. Unless you believe

that Afghanistan is the 'good' war. I never supported that war. It was always apparent why we went there. He is not stupid, I doubt he thinks we're there to 'stop terrorism' either.

It makes him, and Hillary, what they like to call 'New Democrats', better known as the DLC. Of course that was denied during the campaign after his photo and bio were found on the DLC website, calling him a 'rising star' in the Dem Party. It's not there any more, the DLC label would not have helped in the campaign. I don't know why he doesn't just acknowledge it. His choice of COS and economic team leave no doubt really.

The DLC is the rightwing of the Dem Party, closer in political ideology to the Republican Party.

You ask a lot of questions, do you not have any opinions of your own? What does his escalation of that war make in your opinion?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

451. I've got lots of opinions. I'm pro-vaccine, pro-union and pro-civil rights.

Lots of others too. Just look around I'm sure you can find some of my posts.

[sabrina 1]

466. Are you also pro-war? Do you support a Universal HC system?

You didn't answer my question though so I'll ask it again. What does Obama's escalation of the war in Afghanistan make him in your opinion?

Lots of Republicans are pro-vaccine, pro-civil rights and pro-union. They are also pro-war necessary or not.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

452. I forgot a couple, big time pro-dog and definitely pro stack and tilt.

[sabrina 1]

468. Well, I am pro-dog also, but I have no idea what 'stack and tilt' are.

But you are still avoiding my question. What does Obama's escalation of the war make him, in your opinion?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

472. I try to avoid developing opinions without all the facts.

[sabrina 1]

488. So do I.

In this case there are enough facts for anyone to form an opinion. More people are being killed every day, more money is being wasted that is badly need here, and according to what we are told, none of it has reduced the threat of terrorism. The wars did more to incite anger and hatred against the U.S. than anything else. The people of Afghanistan are worse off than they were before we got there, and now we are expanding this war into other countries.

Maybe you have an opinion about the purpose of the war? What is a nearly ten-year old war accomplishing since we are still told it has done nothing to reduce terrorism and we still don't know where Osama Bin Laden is? What's the excuse now?

[defendandprotect]

428. To be clear, I think she's continuing the war-mongering re Iran . . .

has suggested we might bomb them -- and I hear nothing from her about ending

Bush's illegal and immoral wars which Dems have been re-financing for three years!!

So whatever it takes to do those things ... she's got it -- she's it.

If the label for someone who does these things is "right wing extremeist," then she's it!!

Now onto the children . . .

Some may recall that when HRC first come into the spotlight we were told her great

concern was the welfare of children --

Does she notice that these are children we are bombing in Iraq -- and that we have been bombing

them for 25 years?

And that if we bomb Iran we will also be bombing children?

There are no "front lines" any longer --

War is what it has always been . . . a war on women and children!!

If you truly want to see an end to war and violence, end patriarchy ---

patriarchy and violence are mirror images of one another!

And we also need to rid ourselves of women who act like men in their patriarchal insanities!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

445. Just doing what the President wants her to do..

[defendandprotect]

459. If that's the way you need to frame it for yourself -- I wouldn't disagree . . .

Let's see HRC exert conscience on the issue of war -- on the issue of murdering

civilians -- on the issue of our own troops now dead!

The "Noble Cause" continues on?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

476. I'm not the one framing anything.

[defendandprotect]

495. Of course you are . . .

refrain from the shabby denials -

[fascisthunter]

375. exactly!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

398. To be clear, you actually think Hillary Rodham Clinton is a right wing extremist?

[joeybee12]

403. You forgot incompetent, and a liar, and a fool...apparently people

believe there is nothing at all different between Hilary, who actually accomplished something with her life, and Condo-liar, who rose in spite of her stupidity because Repukes are always looking for an idiot African American to show they're not racist.

[Warren Stupidity]

414. The issue is US foreign policy wrt Latin America

and that has been basically unchanged since Reagan, through Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama administrations. We have a blind eye toward abuses on the right, for example the coup in Honduras or the hideous government sponsored paramilitary killings in Colombia, or our long and embarrassing tolerance of Pinochet (and on and on and on) and then we turn around and work not at all subtly to overthrow destabilize and sabotage leftist regimes in the region. Outside of the Carter administration, this has been our policy for all of last century right up to the present day. Rightwing thugs are just fine, democratically elected leftist leaders are denounced immediately as thugs and dictators. When our business interests get threatened, we let loose the death squads. When democracy threatens to defeat our goons, we wreck their democracies. The arrogance of our attitude is blindingly obvious to all of Latin America, and we up here in the north are generally oblivious as to why we are met with such skepticism and hostility.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

426. And Hillary sets the policy in respect to Latin America right?

[Ken Burch]

429. She strongly influences it.

Obama could be doing better on Latin America as well.

You'd have to think she was at least co-writing the tune, if not calling it.

Why are you so fixated with letting her off the hook?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

432. I find it amusing that people here are calling Hillary and Obama right wing extremists.

[Ken Burch]

435. On foreign policy.

You would have to agree, I think, that there's no good reason to carry on ANY aspect of pre-Obama Latin American policy, right?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

449. I have no idea.

I have to say I don't keep up with much Latin American foreign policy. Although I am a big fan of brazilian jui jitsu.

[defendandprotect]

441. YOU offered the labeling . . . and you did so to try to label your opponents . . .

But where do you stand in all of this?

What does your conscience tell you about these wars and bombing women and children?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

450. Where do I stand? Completely against bombing women and children.

I hope that cleared it up for you.

[defendandprotect]

456. Then you don't support wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, drones over Pakistan . . . ?

[sabrina 1]

498. There you are! You never answered my question about

what you think of Obama for his policy of escalating the war in Afghanistan, considering it has done nothing it seems to end terrorism, there is no Osama Bin Laden and it's been going on longer than WW11 and nearly as long as Vietnam. I answered your question, why are afraid to answer mine?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

502. Covered in post # 472.

[defendandprotect]

442. "Amusing" . . . ??? What's amusing about war and war-mongering?

Sending drones into Pakistan . . . ?

Backing Israel's warmongering -- arming them -- financing their wars?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

447. The wars aren't amusing, your rants are.

[defendandprotect]

455. And just what in those pleas against war do you find the most amazing?

Pleas for women and children being bombed?

Please to stop torture?

To stop bankrutping our nation's Treasury?

PLEASE ... tell us . . . what are the parts most fun for you to read?

:eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

479. Not amazing and fun. Amusing and funny.

[defendandprotect]

440. Doesn't matter if HRC sets policy or simply follows it -- conscience is what matters -- !!

Would you follow a policy of continuing to bomb women and children in Iraq . . .

after having been bombing them for more than 20 years now?

Spreading depleted uranium making children there ill -- causing newborn deformities --

and our refusing to clean it up all this time?

Where would your conscience be on this issue?

And, if conscience plays a role in private life, it certainly plans a role in public life!!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

396. To be clear, you actually think Hillary Rodham Clinton is a right wing extremist?

[Ken Burch]

413. What else would you call someone who STILL thinks it could be moral to bomb Iran?

n/t.

[Wilms]

385. Sure hope you don't chase people while waving a gun the way you chase posters you're pissed at.

Just sayin'.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

395. I don't carry a gun and I love everybody here. No need to get angry about a civil discussion.

or an uncivil one for that matter. Much easier to just alert on the uncivil posters and have a pizza delivered to them.

[EFerrari]

400. I don't think in those terms and I don't like them. But, when I try to find a difference

between what Rice was tasked with during her tenure and what Clinton seems to be tasked with, I can't find one.

And it's hard to even say how disappointing that has been.

[laughingliberal]

402. Not sure if she shops for shoes at Pravda

but the policies of her State Department towards Latin America are strikingly similar to those of Condoleeza's. Did I say strikingly similar? I meant identical.

[bridgit]

336. Be that as it may - Chavez is vacuous to presume there is no continuity in US policy...

Argue the merits of that policy or the lack of them but as a juggernaut America remains propelled by a set of long standing policy options able to flow as per and that is just just the way it is and Chavez, in spite of his supporters or their histrionics, is not able to alter one single iota of that flow but for engagement...

If we are to encourage America's engagement with the world by way of *our*, DUers, endorsing face-to-face negotiations instead of both above & beyond armed conflict and collateral damage - then how much less are we to expect of Hugo Chavez? And so I would suggest...drop these pretense, Hugo, step forward instead; and endeavor to see beyond the hue of your staid scenery = expand, that is 'a' way into the future

[Judi Lynn]

345. "your staid scenery"? What on earth can you mean?

As far as engaging, Hugo Chavez bent over backwards during the campaign, and early part of President Obama's presidency to express support, and got back continual pot shots echoing the truly filthy hostility of the _Bush regime.

[bridgit]

389. Oh yeah 'staid' is a word, and as a word similar to: 'sulfur' and 'diablo', but Hugo...

is not the only one able to bounce them off people's foreheads like pebbles. I'm sure you do, I do, many people have their favorite actors and Hugo Chavez is a favorite actor of many here at DU of that there can be no doubt. Not unlike the new Darren/old Darren conundrum; or un-hearing the words of Sean Connery's 007 falling out of the mouth of a freshly franchised Daniel Craig - people share their bias through their fan-like admiration for one vs., over, or in spite of the other

[defendandprotect]

362. Agree . . . and though Latin America rescued itself, the corporatists/right wing are

planning a comeback for another shot at them!!

[Garbo 2004]

56. Venezuela govt's state radio news reports in Spanish & English:

Spanish: http://www.rnv.gov.ve/noticias/index.php?act=ST&f=29&t=121486&hl=clinton&s=9b2051bc2f47d7bef5f8a5b4c4e6a508

"...señora Clinton, quien, cual Condoleezza Rice, pero ahora blanca, vino a Brasilia a agredir a Venezuela.."

I read as "Mrs. Clinton, who, (just) like Condoleeza Rice, but now white, came to Brazil to attack (be aggressive to) Venezuela."

The site has an (awkwardly written) English version of the article: http://www.rnv.gov.ve/noticias/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=121533&hl=clinton&s=9b2051bc2f47d7bef5f8a5b4c4e6a508

Again, this is from a website of the Venezuelan government.

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

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[Renew Deal]

242. LOL

:rofl:

[onehandle]

2. Chavez is a child. nt

[seeinfweggos]

3. apparently a sexist pig, too nt

[sabrina 1]

75. A sexist pig? You reveal your ignorance of the subject you

chose to comment on. Just the usual ignorant, knee-jerk reaction to anything about Venzuela. And supportive of the Bush administration's constant attempts to demonize Chavez.

I suggest you learn a little more about what Chavez thinks and what his goals are for women in Venezuela before you make any more false statements like that which do not make you look particularly informed.

[seeinfweggos]

79. well today i have learned that he can't make a point without being a macho fuckhead. nt

[sabrina 1]

89. And today you demonstrated that you missed the whole

point he was making. Or maybe you agree with the Bush/Reagan/Cheney policies towards Laten America and would rather than acknowledge what Chavez actually said? That there is zero difference in the policies of the Obama administration.

Chavez, like most of us show supported Obama, had hoped he would not continue the illegal and brutal Republican policies towards Latin American countries of backing coups of legitimate leaders, assassinations, 'bad guys' like Uribe the genocidal leader of Colombia. Like us, Chavez was wrong. Now, he's saying so, and he is right.

[seeinfweggos]

96. lol

[sabrina 1]

100. Another substantive and informed comment from you.

Can't defend your attacks on Chavez? I didn't think so.

[justinaforjustice]

158. Chavez Has Appointed Many, Many Women to Highest Offices.

The Chief Justice of the Venezuelan Supreme Court is a woman, as is the head of the National Electoral Commission, as is the attorney general, along with many, many other high positions. Chavez just said that Hillary Clinton is a white version of Condoleeza Rice, which unfortunately, is very true.

Obama's policies in Latin America, and specifically as against Venezuela, are a continuation of the Bush policies.

Obama is building seven new military bases next door to Venezuela in Colombia, one almost right on the Venezuelan border. The U.S. now has bases surrounding Venezuela, much like they have done with Iran. The U.S., from its base in Manta, Ecuador, assisted the Colombia attack inside that country two years ago, and has violated Venezuelan air space on several recent occasion to spy on Venezuelan military installations.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government is actively funding the political opposition to Chavez, giving money to many of the same organizations that carried out the illegal coup against Chavez in 2002.

[EFerrari]

38. Well, no. He's not. He's saying what Latin Americans mostly think

the problem is, he usually says it first.

The other day Clinton said she couldn't see why most Latin American countries were waiting to recognize the puppets in Honduras. She said that, even though it is well known that those puppets are still kidnapping, torturing and killing their opposition.

A situation Condi would have approved of.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. So you are defending his statement?

[sabrina 1]

68. I am defending his statement regarding the policies of this

administration being no different to those of the Bush administration regarding Venezuela.

And you are saying he is wrong? Why is the U.S. interested in a country where they people appear to be very happy with their democratically elected president? I'll give you three guesses.

[defendandprotect]

363. Me, too!! Evidently when the label changes people at DU have trouble ...

seeing or acknowledging that the agenda hasn't changed!!

[Ken Burch]

433. We're pointing out that it isn't sexist for him to have said it.

It's about time for you guys to admit it.

[seeinfweggos]

thanks for letting us know what most latin americans think. hell,why stop at most

tell us what they all think.

[EFerrari]

64. Read the news of her last tour. My assessment is accurate.

You, on the other hand, seem to be hyperventilating. I hope you have a brown bad handy!

[seeinfweggos]

70. yeah i'm shrill and hysterical. i should just yuck it up and go along with the boys when they say

demeaning, objectifying things about women. you go right ahead sister, but i'll continue to call bullshit on macho pigs like hugo chavez.

[EFerrari]

74. So, how about that Stupak amendment?

:)

[seeinfweggos]

80. yeah, how 'bout it? it's fucked up - like hugo chavez. nt

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

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[sabrina 1]

77. I am a woman and I saw nothing objectifying about that remark. Stop

trying to use women to make your points. It gets tired watching people use women to avoid dealing with the real issues. That offends me as a woman. Try getting informed, that usually works better. Hillary Clinton is blond, and her behavior towards Latin American country as she pushes Bush policies as diligently as if we never had a change of administration towards that region, are exactly like the behavior of Condi Rice.

[seeinfweggos]

81. sexism IS a real issue. nt

[sabrina 1]

87. It is not an issue for Chavez, and if you knew anything about him at all

you would know that.

[Flaneur]

326. Don't feed the trolls.

[Violet_Crumble]

179. +1

Just another woman who didn't find anything in the comment to be objectifying woman and is getting sick of the frenzied and irrational attacks on Chavez. If people want to do it, don't use women to hide behind to do it...

[sabrina 1]

184. Thank you! n/t

[laughingliberal]

224. Yes, I'm far more concerned about the policies a leader enacts which affect women

than if he commented on her hair color. Good post!

[Ken Burch]

346. You know perfectly well this wasn't about gender.

They were both secretaries of state. That's what the comparison's about.

Face it, Hillary is not on the side of the world's poor or the workers, and damn sure not on the side of the world's woman. If she was, she wouldn't favor war(which can never liberate women from sexism and can only be right-wing and antiworker, as war on Iran would have to be)or "free trade"(which is also never good for working people, especially working women, and can't benefit the world's poor or the world's children.

If Hillary were a true feminist, she'd be antimilitarist. War can only benefit men, and only a few rich ones. It can't ever help women again.

[Judi Lynn]

348. Thank you so much for bringing up the armed hostilities issue. Balanced women don't support it. n/t

[Ken Burch]

349. You're welcome.

n/t.

[defendandprotect]

366. Concentrate on the right wing agenda . . . not the gender . . .

Chavez has simply made clear that Clinton is Condoleeza . . .

[Happy Hippy]

154. .....

[HuckleB]

151. You've never been to Latin America, have you?

Anyone who has would not make such a statement.

[scarletwoman]

153. EFerrari's family is FROM Latin America.

She actually knows whereof she speaks. What are YOUR credentials?

[Name removed]

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[seeinfweggos]

257. so she knows what most people in LA are thinking?

do you think all black people know each other too? latin americ isn't some monolithic place.

[HuckleB]

259. Actually, I don't think she does know what most people in SA think.

I showed you that already.

[EFerrari]

296. First, that wasn't my claim. Second, you haven't shown anything.

Chavez says what other people only think. That's his role, he's the mouthpiece and the bad cop. Lula is the good cop. Everybody else is in the middle somewhere except for a very few that are still our lapdogs like Uribe who loses more power every day and that idiot in Peru who has pictures of the Pentagon on his desk instead of his family.

So when Hillary says that Venezuela should be more like Chile and Argentina, she's just making herself look a little foolish because Chile and Argentina rely on Chavez being exactly who he is and how he is. And she likely knows that.

[HuckleB]

483. That is one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.

You deny what you wrote, and then you write it again! Of course, you add a new fictional excuse, but, WOW!

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

484. You apparently can't read English.

Saying Chavez expresses what other people only think is not equal to I know what all people think.

Good grief.

[HuckleB]

485. dupe

dupe

[HuckleB]

486. You and I both know you made a ridiculous generalization.

Run from that all you want. "Good grief," is what you should be saying while looking in the mirror. As for your more recent posts, they offer the equivalent to what talk radio dumpster minds engage in: pretending that they didn't say what they actually said.

[EFerrari]

493. My post is still up.

:)

[HuckleB]

507. And your point?

Is it that I don't try to con the monitors into deleting posts that haven't broken any rules?

[HuckleB]

508. And your point?

Is it that I don't try to con the monitors into deleting posts that haven't broken any rules?

[EFerrari]

217. LOL. Yes, I've been to Latin America.

:)

[HuckleB]

260. That's nice.

Now get to know a wider spectrum of people from SA.

[Judi Lynn]

265. Wow! You're just digging a deeper hole! My gosh. Congratulations. n/t

[HuckleB]

481. Not in the real world.

[EFerrari]

281. What an extraordinary statement.

It doesn't say much for your predictive abilities. I hope someone else buys your lottery tickets. :)

[HuckleB]

482. Hardly extraordinary.

You have chosen to generalize from a very small knowledge base. I called you on that. End of story.

[EFerrari]

494. I think declaring victory and going away would be a good strategery on your part

at this point.

lol

[HuckleB]

509. That's funny.

I like concessions.

:rofl:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

6. ¿Cómo se dice...

"pudgy bastard with bad skin" in Spanish?

[enid602]

21. translation

Gordo malvado con acne, o tal vez Dick Cheney.

[EFerrari]

45. Projection: how dare this littlle brown guy call abuse abuse.

[defendandprotect]

367. Yes -- yes!!! Evidently if the administration is "Dem" no one is supposed to notice!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. The Guardian UK arees with Chavez

It's foreign policy-as-usual in Latin America

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010...

Clinton's Latin American clangers

Offensive remarks on Honduras, gratuitous insults in Brazil – Hillary Clinton's Latin American tour has not been a success


Hillary Clinton's Latin America tour is turning out to be about as successful as George W Bush's visit in 2005, when he ended up leaving Argentina a day ahead of schedule just to get the hell out of town. The main difference is that she is not being greeted with protests and riots. For that she can thank the positive media image that her boss, President Obama, has managed to maintain in the region, despite his continuation of his predecessor's policies.

But she has been even more diplomatically clumsy that Bush, who at least recognised that there were serious problems and knew what not to say. "The Honduras crisis has been managed to a successful conclusion," Clinton said in Buenos Aires, adding that "it was done without violence."

This is rubbing salt into her hosts' wounds, as they see the military overthrow of President Mel Zelaya last June, and subsequent efforts by the US to legitimise the dictatorship there as not only a failure but a threat to democracy throughout the region.

It is also an outrageous thing to say, given the political killings, beatings, mass arrests, and torture that the coup government used in order to maintain power and repress the pro-democracy movement. The worst part is that they are still committing these crimes.

[seeinfweggos]

12. well the british can be male chauvinist pigs too i suppose. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Right. The article is all about feminism.

Good luck with that.

[seeinfweggos]

16. the op is about a sexist remark by hugo chavez

your headline said they "agree"

sorry for assuming you were staying on topic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. You're the one off topic with your faux outrage.

He said she was a "blond Condoleeza". Which you impute to be sexist. Had he said "she's a more moronic Condoleeza" would you have been satisfied?

How about if someone said that "Palin is a female version of Reagan"?

[seeinfweggos]

22. he gratuitously compared two women by physical attributes

that is sexist.

[EFerrari]

41. Report it to our Women's Ministry so they can contact the one in Venezuela.

Oh, wait. We don't have one.

[seeinfweggos]

53. nor do we have a sexist president nt

[EFerrari]

58. Good. Then I expect that Stupak amendment to go down in flames!

:party:

[seeinfweggos]

65. that's it change the subject. nt

[EFerrari]

67. If you want to talk about sexism, I'm right there, sister. n/t

[sabrina 1]

123. Lol! Good point. n/t

[Mari333]

136. LOLOL touche'

[HughMoran]

164. What the FUCK does Stupak have to do with every argument

He's an ass hole - what the FUCK is your point. He is NOT the President like Chavez is - he's a lowly Republican pretending to be a Democrat. You have no arguments - only nonsense.

[sabrina 1]

198. What he has to do with THIS argument is his anti-women

amendment and the fact that your fellow Chavez-hater claimed that the Venezuelan president is sexist, our president is not.

If he is not, then, as E.Ferrari said, he will make sure that amendment does not remain in the Health Care bill. I doubt he will do that, so by the reasoning of your fellow Chavez-hater, that makes Obama a sexist.

Don't thank me, glad to help!

[seeinfweggos]

99. women's ministry? no doubt it can be found between the ministry of love and the ministry of plenty.

[EFerrari]

117. USA!

[laughingliberal]

333. Oh, man! And me without my pom-poms! nt

[scarletwoman]

121. Gee, one would think a dedicated feminist like you would be pleased to know that there's an entire

governmental body dedicated to women's issues.

[Flaneur]

404. Poster is only a dedicated feminist when it's an opportunity to Chavez-bash.

Totally transparent. Don't feed the trolls.

[Garbo 2004]

69. Compared two US Secretary of States which is the salient point. nt

[seeinfweggos]

83. two women - by their physical characteristics = objectification of women. nt

[Garbo 2004]

104. Nope. If he said "shorter" would that be sexist? If comparison between two men,

would it be sexist?

And it doesn't appear Chavez actually referred to hair color.

[seeinfweggos]

105. no it wouldn't be sexist. but hair color is a classic patriarchal categorization of women

blonds have more fun, blonds are dumb, i prefer brunettes, etc.

[Garbo 2004]

107. And if he didn't refer at all to hair color....then? nt

[seeinfweggos]

108. what did he refer to then? nt

[Garbo 2004]

110. Check the source I provided you previously. nt

[seeinfweggos]

118. i'm sorry. could you provide it again? nt

[seeinfweggos]

119. seriously, what source? what did he say? nt

[laughingliberal]

391. He referred to the fact that the policy towards Latin America remains unchanged under Obama. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. What's really funny is your sincere defense of the indefensible.

If Rush Limbaugh had said this your head would be exploding and you would be decrying it as hate speech.

[EFerrari]

73. What's indefensible is that the Obama administration has said nada

about the horrible repression in Honduras, nothing about the torture or the murders or the rapes and then sends Hillary Clinton down there to try to strong arm other leaders into recognizing a fake election.

When your daughter is raped and tortured and shot for working at a radio station and her body is left out on the highway as a warning, that is indefensible. And that is what Clinton went down there to defend.

[HughMoran]

Except that Obama DID speak out against the illegal coup in Honduras

Obama says Honduras coup illegal

President Obama: ''Honduras coup was not legal''

US President Barack Obama has described the removal of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya as illegal.

His remarks came after left-wing Latin American leaders declared their support for the deposed leader, who was expelled by the military on Sunday.
Speaking after a meeting with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, Mr Obama said Mr Zelaya remained the democratically-elected leader of Honduras.

And he said a "terrible precedent" would be set if the coup were not reversed.

...

Earlier on Monday, speaking in Managua, the capital of Nicaragua, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez spelled out his opposition to the situation in Honduras.

"We cannot allow a return to the past. We will not permit it," Mr Chavez said.

He spoke after talks with Mr Zelaya, President Rafael Correa of Ecuador and Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8125292.stm


...are you mad that he didn't start another war in Honduras? How do you propose he INTERFERE in their politics?

....not that your continually changing the subject means anything...

[seeinfweggos]

78. and correctly so. it's bullshit regardless of who says it.

comparing two professional women by their physical attributes is one of the most obvious and common forms of sexism. if you don't like the job they are doing, you can say it without objectifying them.

[sabrina 1]

84. What is sexist about the remark? Hillary is blond, is she not?

Nice way to try to distract from the main point he made which is that she is otherwise no different than her predecessor, which is true.

Did you agree with the Bush administration's policies towards Latin America? Did you support the Reagan Administration's backing of coups and death squads, Bush also? I am thinking you probably did which is why you have zero problem with a continuation of them under this Democratic Administration.

Many people were hoping to see an end to the aggression of the U.S. towards that region of the world. But their behavior towards the Honduran coup and their refusal to accept Chavez's offer of cooperation, not to mention their support of the genocidal leader of Colombia, Uribe, made it clear that Obama's policies will not change one bit.

The only way you might not have a problem with that is if you supported Bush's policies. Murder, illegal coups, torture, interference in the democratic processes of other nations are wrong no matter who is responsible so it's my theory that the Chavez haters, most of them on the right, never disagreed with those brutal, cold war policies to begin with.

[scarletwoman]

95. Well said, thank you. Great post.

Many people were hoping to see an end to the aggression of the U.S. towards that region of the world. But their behavior towards the Honduran coup and their refusal to accept Chavez's offer of cooperation, not to mention their support of the genocidal leader of Colombia, Uribe, made it clear that Obama's policies will not change one bit.

One of my greatest disappointments about the Obama administration. Clinton is nothing more than a different face on the same old policies.

sw

[seeinfweggos]

102. it's fucking objectification! jeez! nt

[sabrina 1]

114. And Chavez is talking about policies of death squads and assassinations

and people who disappeared, coups and torture, all policies of the U.S. towards his area of the world for several decades, continued under the previous administration, and now under this one. Children, women (you know, women being tortured by the brutal dictators we supported for so long), old people.

But hey, if you think that referring to the color of a woman's hair rates higher on the outrage scale than women being killed and tortured, enjoy your delusions. He's very popular with the women of his own country. He has provided them with opportunities many of them never had before, he has empowered them, as they have said, and made them aware of the fact, after generations of being considered second class citizens, that they have power. Keep trying though, but do us a favor, stop singing the same old song. Most intelligent women reject this kind of silliness.

Chavez is right!

[inna]

137. +1000

Thank you.

[seeinfweggos]

261. obama has death squads? are they kenyan or have we not seen their birth certificates?

hillary clinton is torturing women? have we seen hillary's birth certificate. maybe she's kenyan too.

[Judi Lynn]

266. Sad, sad, sad. They (Obama,Clinton) have NEVER acknowledged there was a military coup,

and they refused to acknowledge and condemn the fact the coup managers installed the former Battalion 316 death squad leader as the head of their security and proceeded to torture, and murder a large number of political dissidents in Honduras after June of last year, continuing into the present.

[seeinfweggos]

268. he condemned the godt damned coup. and then he's responsible for the toture the hondurans did

to their countrymen. he was secretly directing that? with his kenyans?

[Judi Lynn]

278. As I said, he did NOT acknowledge it as an actual military coup.

This position allowed him to continue financial support the the Honduran government, even though it was occupied by the coup managers.

~snip~
The State Department also acknowledged President Manuel Zelaya’s ouster on June 28th was a coup, but it refused to formally describe it as a military coup. Under the US Foreign Operations Bill, such a declaration would force an immediate suspension of most aid until rule of law is restored.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/4/us_cuts_more_aid_to_honduras

[laughingliberal]

335. It was when the administration did not acknowledge the military coup

that I fully realized our policies in Latin America had not changed with the administration and I had so hoped that. after all these years, and with a Democrat in the White House, they would.

[Judi Lynn]

342. Who would have EVER expected it from someone the right-wing idiots claim is a "socialist?" n/t

[EFerrari]

394. Yep. Me, too. That was a benchmark.

And then it came out that the plane used for the kidnapping fueled up at our base, that one of the Clintons' flunkies was advising the coup, that the Honduran military never stopped training at SOA, that Harris in Honduras was getting defense contracts hand over fist. It adds up and it's ugly as hell. :(

[scarletwoman]

405. I also recall that one of the coup leaders was allowed to fly into Miama to raise money.

If Obama had actually been serious about declaring the coup "illegal", how in the world would this guy have ever been allowed to enter this country? Why wouldn't his visa have been revoked?

The whole thing was a farce -- the Obama administration was totally on the side of the coupsters from the beginning. He made a few disapproving noises only for appearances' sake.

I've come to realize that Obama's words mean absolutely nothing -- like his nice-sounding speeches about "a new relationship with Latin America". Yeah, like 7 new military bases in Colombia. What a sad joke.

sw

[EFerrari]

406. When the issue of the human rights abuses were scheduled for disussion

in the Security Council, Susan Rice (who had the gavel) limited the discussion to the status of the Brazilian embassy -- disallowing any discussion of what the ooup was doing to the people. I can't support that. How could anyone with a conscience support that.

But, limiting the discussion also limited the media coverage. And that in turn allowed Hillary Clinton to say this "crisis" was handled without violence.

Excuse me while I :puke:

[scarletwoman]

409. It's really too disgusting to bear. Not that it should have been a surprise that nothing

in U.S. foreign policy was really going to change. But after suffering through 8 years of bush* and the neocons it was hard not get one's hopes up just a little.

However, as soon as Clinton was chosen for Sec. of State, I realized how silly those hopes were.

sw

[EFerrari]

411. And in fact, the LatAm policy may get worse than under BushCo

because more attention is being paid to the region. BushCo was obsessed with the Middle East. That means, they directed Pentagon resources away from Latin America. So, while Iraq and Afghanistan suffered, our neighbors to the south enjoyed a period of diminished interference. That may change now as the new administration isn't as flat out nuts about the Middle East and may apportion their resources more broadly.

[scarletwoman]

416. Exactly. I realized that as I watched what they were doing with Honduras. It's very worrisome.

It's obvious that the State Department and the predatory capitalist powers that it serves are just itching for a chance to undo all the leftist progress that's been made in Latin America over the past decade.

At least LatAm is pulling together to form its own bloc with their new (damn! I can't think of the name!) organization.

(Now I've got to go look up the name...)

sw

[HuckleB]

510. Good lord, but ya'll are sheltered.

[RedRoses323]

383. Kudos!

:toast:

[fascisthunter]

378. it's not the first time I have noticed the faux outrage from this one

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

438. Alas, despite her witty repartee, she is no longer with us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=250652

[laughingliberal]

314. That was laugh out loud funny. Thanks! nt

[Greyhound]

35. #3 Topic Dilution. n/t

[OnyxCollie]

313. Yep, sticking to the formula.

And effective, too.

I can't tell if it's deliberate sabotage, or just crazy.

[defendandprotect]

368. You think HRC is setting the policy or following it? Like Condi . . . ???

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

381. She's just following orders.

[defendandprotect]

388. I agree . .. and devoid of conscience . . . IMO --

[Beacool]

26. And now we care what RW nespapers publish?

:eyes:

[Codeine]

30. The Guardian is not a RW paper. nt

[EFerrari]

40. In your opinion, how would Rice's handling of Honduras been different?

[Radical Activist]

32. How incredibly disappointing and shameful.

The Honduras crisis is concluded? My worst fears of Hillary as SOS are confirmed. I had hoped Obama would do better by Latin America than this.

[Greyhound]

37. "The Honduras crisis has been managed to a successful conclusion," Clinton said in Buenos Aires,

adding that "it was done without violence."

:wow::wtf:

[Arkana]

8. And Chavez is a moron.

Why people continue to defend his tin-pot dictatorship ways is beyond me.

[malaise]

9. It's beyond me that many DUers do not see

US foreign policy for what it is. Latin American leaders are 100% correct about US hypocrisy re the overthrow of the legitimate government of Honduras. Chavez is correct about US foreign policy. We are independent countries as well and your interests aren't always our interests.

[polly7]

17. He does run off a little at the mouth, but I agree with you

about Latin American leaders knowing what the real score is.

[PufPuf23]

20. Amen!

I am not religious but the current USA is on the wrong side of freedom, justice, human rights, and history in Latin America.

Our politcal leadership and M$M demonize and undermine the brave and populist for the historical colonial-initiated oligarchies.

The Honduras coup is ugly and our actions cynical.

I want the USA to be activist but in taking the high ground in justice, fair economics, and democratic freedom, not bullying against the majority interests and inclination, domestic and with partners.

The USA is on the verge of being left out of new vibrant western hemisphere multi-national organizations or marginalized in existing because we are not wise and do not follow the Golden Rule.

[The Northerner]

48. I couldn't agree more

[malaise]

71. Excellent post

:hi:

[inna]

28. +1,000

[Arkana]

109. Doesn't make him not a douchebag.

[JackRiddler]

289. So try to convince Venezuelans to stop giving him 60% of the vote in free and fair elections.

[laughingliberal]

487. There you go!

I love the Americans who think they know all about how Chavez is soooo bad for the people of Venezuela yet the people there keep electing him. Seems their peasant class has learned to quit voting against their own interests. Their elite rulers and ours are a little pissed off about that.

[bikingaz]

505. Not sure that their elections are 100% free & fair

There have been plenty of allegations of voter fraud in that country. Voters don't count, the ones who count the votes are the important ones. Just because ex prez Carter was fooled, no one in Venezuela has. Iraq used to have Saddam almost unanimously elected in "fair & free" elections there. No one was fooled.

The US foreign policy is geared to managing the support of US business interests first, instead of proper foreign policy. Chavez has made some relevant comments about this.

But he is also a thug and my friends in Venezuela tell me their society is steadily declining, kind like ours over here.

[XOKCowboy]

140. Plus our foreign policy history in Argentina, Haiti, El Salvador, Cuba, etc

I can see plenty of reason for anyone below our borders not to trust American foreign policy.

[scarletwoman]

150. Very well said. It's really disturbing.

I expect that kind of ignorance from rightwingers, but to see it here is so discouraging. I really don't understand it. :(

sw

[defendandprotect]

370. They get confused when the administration changes but the policy doesn't ...!!!

They think if it says "Dem" they it's great no matter what it's doing!!!

THAT's a large part of the problem here at DU -- !!!

That ship sailed long ago -- but they don't get it!!

[Bodhi BloodWave]

10. Likely because your description is so far of the map that its not even funny n/t

[Wilms]

15. Yes. The history of the US is nothing if not about benevolence in the developing world.

Stay ignorant.

:hi:

[seeinfweggos]

24. which of course excuses hugo for being a macho sexist shithead.

[Wilms]

27. It seems sufficient to ignore in favor of your trigger-happy sense of outrage.

That much is clear.

[seeinfweggos]

31. seriously. you don't think that is a sexist statement? you really don't get it?

nt

[Wilms]

42. As a matter of fact, I don't think a reference to hair color is sexists.

And I certainly find it impressive as the distracting subject of soooo many of your replies (if not all of them).

The OP is about Hillary being the same as Condoleeza with respect to foreign policy in LA.

Simple.

Maybe you could join a group to share your feelings with.

[seeinfweggos]

50. and is hugo not capable of making his point without objectifying women?

maybe he isn't.

[Wilms]

61. I won't be able to help you with your problem. Sorry. n/t

[Garbo 2004]

88. Actually it doesn't appear that he referenced her hair color. nt

[seeinfweggos]

103. then what did he say? nt

[HughMoran]

200. He basically called Hillary a 'white' Condoleeza

It was more racist than sexist. The translation was changed to soften the apparent racist implications.

[inna]

143. No, it was not a sexist statement,

and it was explained to you several times in this thread already.

[seeinfweggos]

146. i was wrong. turns out he was being racist. lol nt

[sabrina 1]

159. You never answered my question.

Did you support U.S. policies as implemented by both Bushes, Reagan et al whereby women were routinely brutalized and otherwise treated like dirt by brutal dictators this government supported? The kind of policies that Chavez has abolished in his country?

You never answered E.Ferrari's question either. When Obama allows the Stupak amendment to remain as part of the Senate Bill, which he has shown no sign of removing so far, will you call that 'sexism'?

Just for the record, people like you are an insult to women. You attempt to paint them as weak, so weak that they will fall apart as your little act is meant to make people believe you have, if someone mentions the color of their hair. Speak for yourself, you are the reason young women today do not identify with the feminist movement. Because women are far from the weak image you are portraying. What YOU are doing is sexist.

[scarletwoman]

161. Brava!!!! Sing it, sister!

:applause: :yourock:

[inna]

243. +1000

[seeinfweggos]

256. i don't support shit like that - it's why i voted for obama

and as for the other poster you mentioned, i answered her question too. oh yeah, i'm portraying a weak image young women yet you are making excuses for a macho loudmouthed authoritarian male daddy figure. project much sister?

[sabrina 1]

291. You're losing your cool. That's weak.

Calm down and try saying something substantive for a change.

I supported Obama also, hoping that those policies would change under a Democratic Administration. But, as Chavez says, they have not. Hillary was sent back from S.America after insulting the leaders of independent democracies, who well know the history of U.S. policies in their countries and do not want a repeat of that tragic past. Particularly women who know full well that under a U.S. backed dictator what their lives would be like again. Chavez has raised them up and ensured that women are not abused in his country. Not so with those the U.S. has supported before he took over the country.

Hillary did not give South American democracies much hope that the U.S. has changed its ways. As arrogant in her approach to them as Condi was, and about as successful.

Obama is continuing the same policies you say don't support. He did not take a stand on Honduras, except to make some weak statements after being pressured to do so. Not much different than Reagan and the Bushes who also gave lip service to 'democracy' while they funded rightwing wackos behind the scenes.

Hillary just told these countries that Honduras 'was handled' without anyone being hurt!!! What was she thinking?? People were tortured and killed and the country was deprived of its democratically elected president!! And you do not see the similarity to Condi in those ignorant and arrogant statements?

The propaganda campaign against Chavez, which like a good follower of the leader, you are supporting is because the U.S. wants to return to the days when those countries were ruled by Dictators, friendly to the interests of the Global Capitalists but devastating to their own citizens.

Obama is supporting Uribe, the man who has been accused of committing genocide against his own people, in Colombia. Same old U.S. criminal policies in that region of the world. Explain that away if you can. They hate Chavez, because he exposes them to the world. Keep on supporting these policies you say you hate, if you want, but at least know what you are doing. Like any intelligent and strong grown-up woman should, not blindly believe propaganda like a gullible and weak child who doesn't care what happens to women under dictatorships in foreign countries.

[scarletwoman]

297. Beautifully said! (nt)

[seeinfweggos]

301. no, here is what's weak.

it isn't when you ask me if i support murder (references to the 80's) that somehow in your mind are still being done by obama.

it isn't even when you say i want young women to be weak when I AM THE one who isn't falling for the big strong patriarchal daddy figure.

it's when you then say i shouldn't lose my cool.

that's beyond weak. it's really fucking lame.

[Wilms]

386. I'll tell you what lame is.

Nah. Changed my mind.

[EFerrari]

399. He's dead, Jim.

[Wilms]

407. Well, I just hope somebody tipped the delivery boy very well.

[justinaforjustice]

169. Ve Just Passed Most Comprehensive Anti-Domestic Violence Statute in the World

That "macho sexist shithead", recently passed what is probably the most comprehensive anti-domestic violence statute in the world.

AS a feminist retired lawyer from the U.S., I'm familiar with the domestic violence laws in several U.S. jurisdictions, none of them come close to the protection afforded to women by the new Venezuelan law.

The "Organic Law on the Right of Women to a Life Free from Violence" protects women from physical and sexual violence and harassment (including in the work place), and extends protection against psychological and verbal abuse. It even protects women from obstetrical abuse, prohibiting anyone from interfering with a woman in labor, forcing or delaying labor in any way, and otherwise making delivers unpleasant. It is also against this law to interfere with a women's property or inheritance.

The law provides extensive social services to abused women, including finding them housing, subsidized where needed, and provides for subsidized job training, child care and psychological services.

The women's movement in Venezuela is extremely strong and well-organized, thanks to the socialist women supporting Chavez. Women here are in the forefront of political activities at every level, and there are many, many more women in Venezuela's national assembly than there are in the U.S. Congress. The head of the National Assembly is a woman, Cilia Flores, and women head many of the assembly's important committees.

It is both childish and laughable to call President Chavez ä macho sexist shithead" and only betrays the immaturity and factual ignorance of the writer.

[Judi Lynn]

176. Thanks for sharing the info. on the new anti-violence law to protect Venezuelan women.

I'm sure you're very aware we will NEVER learn about it from our own corporate media.

Going to mark your post for future reference.

So glad you mentioned the Organic Law on the Right of Women to a Life Free from Violence.

[Happy Hippy]

248. yeah right....

The Venezuelan's Domestic Violence policy against women essentially reads, "You won't get beat if you don't leave the kitchen."(1). How any self respecting progressive could ever support the barbarism of the Chavez regime is beyond me.

Snippet from Amnesty International report:

The report estimates that nearly 90% of domestic violence cases still go unreported in Venezuela, .

According to Amnesty International, Venezuela's efforts have been restricted to rhetoric.

(1) http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3654

[seeinfweggos]

262. you men the ministry of women hasn't ushered in the new socialist (non-abusive) man? nt

[Happy Hippy]

270. Of course not....

It's nothing more than a simple ploy.

DU NEWSFLASH: Chavez is a dictator. HITLER WAS ELECTED TOO!


I'm sick of progressives supporting this sleaze. Yeah, feel good about supporting this dictator, meanwhile the poor in Venezuela starve.

[seeinfweggos]

272. it's quite amazing nt

[Judi Lynn]

292. "meanwhile the poor in Venezuela starve."

Beautiful. You need to post your sources for your amazing charges.

Venezuela Food Program
By Roberto Jorquera
Tuesday, July 12, 2005

On June 26, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez hosted his weekly TV show from the city of Coro, about six hours west of Caracas on the Caribbean coast. The 226th episode of Hello President was dedicated to the launching of a new food market and "food houses", both state-run centres that provide discounted basic foodstuff.

During the program, Chavez said that the aim was to provide for more than 15 million citizens, or about 60% of the population. Mercal is a food distribution network that currently distributes over 4 million tons of food every day and employs over 47,000 people. His announced increase in the number of shops will be funded by the profits that Citgo, an affiliate of the oil industry body PDVSA, made in the US market during the first quarter of 2005.

As the central leader of the Bolivarian revolution, which is changing the face of Venezuela, Chavez has become a hero to Venezuela's poor majority, and a devil to the wealthy oligarchy that has traditionally dominated the country's parliament.

During the December 2002-January 2003 oil industry sabotage and lockout of workers, the local community joined with sections of the military and national government to provide a network of food distribution to counter the shortages caused by the lockout. This system was later organised into the Mercado de Alimentos (Mercal) food market in April 2003. At that time three shops were launched. Now, there are 14,185 such shops throughout the country.

Mercal prioritises food that is produced in Venezuela as part of an incentive to increase food production. It is estimated that Venezuela still continues to import close to 75% of its food, including rice, chicken and beans, which are a staple part of the national diet.

Sarah Wagner wrote at Venezuela Analysis on June 24, "As endogenous development has gained momentum, Mercal has steadily increased its purchases from regional and local producers to 40% of its total purchases. As a result of the support for the local agricultural industry in the form of microcredits, jobs have been created in small- and medium-sized businesses which have not only expanded but have also successfully inserted themselves into the national economy. This in turn, propels the goal of national food sovereignty.

"Purchases from local and regional businesses reduce costs in transportation, distribution and advertising, thus reducing costs for the consumer and lowering government subsidies. For example, in the state of Portuguesa, Mercal is purchasing 148% more directly from regional producers compared to when it started. This translates into 258,000 tons of products. The coordinator of the region, Xenia Briceno, notes that in the two years since the program began, it has beenen working towards eliminating the middle man of the commercial chain, as a means for lowering the cost of goods, bringingt them directly from the hands of the producer to the hands of the consumer."

The shortage of food has been part of the ongoing problem of agricultural land ownership in Venezuela. It is estimated that 75% of the land is owned by 5% of the population. Much of this is either used for export food production and the rest is not being used at all. During the big oil boom of the early 1970s, the Venezuelan government and large industry simply relied on importing food using the oil revenues and so there was never any plan for domestic food production.

More:
http://www.zcommunications.org/venezuela-food-program-by-roberto-jorquera

~~~~~~~

The New Venezuela of President Hugo Chávez
Ten Years of Bolivarian Revolution
January 31, 2009 By Salim Lamrani

~snip~
In the realm of health service, the public healthcare system was created with the objective to grant free access to Medicare for all Venezuelans. Mission Barrio Adentro I provided 300 million consultations in the 4,469 medical centers created since 1998. In 1998, less than 3 million people had regular access to medical care. About 17 million people have benefited from this program and more than 104,000 lives are estimated to have been saved. The infant mortality rate was reduced to less than 10 per thousand . On the other hand, thanks to the Operación Milagro (Mission Miracle) from Cuba, which consists in free eye surgery for poor Latin Americans who are suffering from eye diseases, 176,000 poor Venezuelans have regained their sight. (11)

To eliminate the problems of malnutrition, the government has launched the Mission Alimentación with the creation of food stores called Mercal, whose goods are subsidized by the state by 30%. Almost 14,000 retail outlets have been installed all over the country. Half of the population, i.e., more than 13 million people, purchase their food in these stores. In addition, more than 4 million children receive free, nutritionally selected foods through the School Food Program (Programa de Alimentación Escolar). In 1998, only 250,000 children benefited from this program. According to CEPAL, Venezuela now has the third lowest infant malnutrition rate of Latin America after Cuba and Chile. (12)

In 1998, 80% of the inhabitants in urban areas had access to drinking water. In 2007, the figure reached 92%, thanks to the enormous gains realized in this field. Notable efforts were also made in rural areas, rising from 55% in 1998 to 71% in 2007 in these rural areas. More than 6,5 million people benefited from these achievements by the government. In this area Venezuela has thus achieved since 2001 the Millennium Goals stipulated by the UNO for the year 2015. (13)

More:
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/20416

You're not entitled to your own facts.

[sabrina 1]

300. Thanks for providing facts. I don't think the truth matters much

to the already indoctrinated though. They say they support women, throw phony fits over a comment while they ignore the abuse of women under the oppressive leaders this country supported.

Before Chavez, over 80% of Venezuelans lived in poverty. He has reduced that number by nearly 22% the last I read. Illiteracy also has been reduced, especially among women most of whom were unable to read.

Any real progressive would be supportive of a leader struggling to overcome decades of poverty and illiteracy as Venezuela's resources enriched the top 20% and foreign interests, while a majority of the people starved.

I have my doubts about the 'progressiveness' of Chavez haters. When the coup d'etat, backed by the U.S. occurred in 2002, you could not find anyone on a progressive board who was anti-Chavez. On rightwing boards the Bush coup was supported and Chavez smeared. I never thought I'd the same kind of attacks on emerging democracies in South and Central America on a Democratic board. But, I never thought if we ever got a Democratic majority that I would see the same Bush policies continued either.

The sad thing is the U.S. is going to fall behind the rest of the world in its relationship with those emerging democracies right next door by sticking to their old cold war mentality. I really thought that this administration would begin to work with them, rather than try to take over again and develop a partnership with them as other countries have begun to do. So disappointing to realize that there really is only one policy and it doesn't matter which party is in power.

[scarletwoman]

303. This is the truth: "there really is only one policy and it doesn't matter which party is in power."

It's the Foreign Policy Establishment Consensus, which has been in place since the inauguration of the Cold War.

It's now so deeply entrenched and interwoven with the entire global capitalist and military enterprise of the U.S. empire, that it's a Frankenstein monster under no one's control.

sw

[sabrina 1]

311. Sad, but all too true. I wonder what it will take to

change it. All the talk about 'change' with this president was nothing but rhetoric after all. It looks like no one will get to the presidency who hasn't already signed on to these old outdated policies.

[scarletwoman]

322. With so many of our fellow citizens so utterly ignorant and brainwashed, the Elites at the top will

continue their machinations largely unchallenged, I'm afraid.

When even self-described "liberals" persist in vehement denial of reality, I don't see much hope of achieving true freedom any time soon. Ours is a society in severe decline -- morally, intellectually, psychologically, which makes us easy pickings for the sociopaths in the shadows who actually run things.

As Emma Goldman said, "If elections actually changed things, they would be illegal."

Thank you for all the excellent posts you've made on this thread. It's a hard battle to keep the truth alive.

sw

[sabrina 1]

410. I think a lot of it is willful ignorance.

Americans can never make the claim the German people did 'we didn't know what was going on' which was rejected btw. There are far too many ways to find the facts today which weren't available back then.

But, I agree that keeping the population dumbed down, results in the kind of posts seen in this thread even when they are presented with evidence to the contrary. As you say, it's especially dis-heartening to see it on the 'left'. If it is the left.

Thank you also for your excellent posts and I never realized how difficult it is to fight the lies and distortions until I spent a few years on a rightwing dominated forum. No matter what facts you presented, they were ignored in favor of the learned talking points. Sad to see it here also.

[scarletwoman]

420. Yes, it is very sad to see it here also.

Having been on DU for so many years it's ceased to surprise me, but it's never ceased to disappoint me.

I want to thank you, too, for all your powerful and informative posts on this thread. You're very skilled and articulate and it's been a great pleasure to read your posts.

:toast:
sw

[sabrina 1]

421. Thank you, although you are far too kind ~

And the feeling is mutual ~ :-)

[Happy Hippy]

302. LOL

I'm sure Chavez's show "Hello President" is an unbiased sourced. My facts come from the internet. There are thousands of sources that document poor Venezuelans' difficulty in obtaining food.

"Hello President"...hahahhahahahahaha who does he think he is, "Hello Kitty". Talk about a cult of personality.

[Judi Lynn]

332. Here's another source you may want to evaluate:

http://www.drclas.harvard.edu.nyud.net:8090/revista/img/revista.gif

Social Policy in Chávez's Venezuela
Sujatha Fernandes

Social Policy in Chávez’s Venezuela

A Radical Alternative or More of the Same?
by Sujatha Fernandes


The barrio Carretera Negra on the western edge of Caracas consists of a row of houses along a stretch of highway road, as indicated by its name, “Black Highway,” and along three smaller lanes, Oriente, 24 de Julio and Justicia. It is a Wednesday morning in the Carretera, and police officer Osvaldo Mendoza is unloading foodstuffs from the back of a government truck for the local soup kitchen, located in the front room of his house. “I was never a vecino (neighbor) who was very involved with the community because of my work,” Osvaldo told me. “But seeing the necessities of our communities, what I’ve seen as a police officer, the necessities you see in the streets, I offered my house when this opportunity came.”

By midday, five local volunteers have prepared the meal of potato salad, hot dogs, and beans and rice that feed 150 children daily. School children in white and blue uniforms wait in a long line outside bearing plastic containers, and the food is packed into their containers by volunteers and then stored in school bags.

The soup kitchens function through the organization and labor of the vecinos, but they are an initiative of President Hugo Chávez. Since Chávez was elected to office in 1998 in Venezuela, he has sparked both acclaim and controversy for his interventions on behalf of the poor.

For nine months between January 2004 and January 2007, I lived in one of the popular barrios of Caracas, carrying out field research for a project on urban social movements. I witnessed health clinics in the highest reaches of the shantytowns where previously people had died from preventable diseases; nutritious daily meals available for children from poor families; and high-school dropouts continuing their schooling during evenings in the work-study program. But from my own observations, it seemed that these programs faced some challenges in their implementation, including the siphoning off of stipends that sometimes didn’t reach intended beneficiaries; hoarding and pilfering of goods; and under-employment, where people were employed in the various missions, but at times remained without a livable wage.

~snip~
The key educational missions included adult literacy and elementary education programs Mission Robinson I and II, work-study program Mission Ribas, and a university program, Mission Sucre. Unemployed and informal groups were incorporated into these programs in large numbers as both instructors and students, helping to partly alleviate poverty by providing them with small stipends for their involvement.

In mid-2003, Chávez introduced the Barrio Adentro program of local health clinics, staffed by Cuban doctors, in 320 of Venezuela’s 335 municipalities. By mid-2005, he had added another two programs, Barrio Adentro II and III for additional medical services. In March 2005, there were over 5,000 Health Committees, which were created to supervise and help out with the Barrio Adentro program.

In addition to educational and health programs, Chávez encouraged barrio residents to create a range of committees and cooperative organizations. In a 2002 executive decree, Chávez established the basis for Urban Land Committees, in order to redistribute and formalize land deeds. Since most dwellings in the barrios were constructed through a process of massive squatting as people moved to urban centers from the countryside, few home owners possessed deeds or titles to their land. In March 2005, there were more than 4,000 Urban Land Committees in the urban capitals of Venezuela, which had distributed about 170,000 property titles.

The Chávez government also set up soup kitchens, where needy children and single mothers from the barrios received one free meal a day. During 2004, there were 4,052 soup kitchens established in Venezuela. Mission Mercal was a series of subsidized supermarkets also designed to improve nutrition.

~snip~
For many residents of the urban barrios, such as the Carretera Negra, programs such as the Soup Kitchen have brought immeasurable changes to their lives, not only in terms of material gains, but in terms of the personal sense of empowerment that results from involvement in community-based work. Carmen Teresa, one of the women involved in the organization of the soup kitchen summed it up: “I am forty-something years old, and never in my life have I cared about what was happening in my country, and I’m saying my country, but also my Carretera where I live. It’s like I am fulfilled. This work fulfills me. I want to be involved in everything, I want to participate in everything, I really feel that someone needs me and I can do it.”

More:
http://www.drclas.harvard.edu/revista/articles/view/1101

Thanks for your attention. I can most certainly add a lot more links as time permits. Very happy to do it.

[EFerrari]

319. That's so funny. The FAO has said that food security in Venezuela will improve

BECAUSE of the vastly improving status of women.

Boy, when you strike out, you don't fool around, do you?


The country has made outstanding progress in reducing gender disparities in recent decades. Women obtained the right to vote in 1946. The Law of Equal Opportunities for Women was enacted in 1993, and the 1999 Bolivarian Constitution prohibits gender-based discrimination. In adjudicating rural land the Land Law of 2001 gives preference to women who are heads of households. And women are guaranteed a food subsidy during pregnancy and after childbirth. Several institutions have been created to assist women. They include the Ministry of Popular Power for Women, the Development Bank for Women and the National Prosecutor for Women’s Rights. In addition, a Basic Law on the Right of Women to a Life Free of Violence was passed in 2006.

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/web/guest/country/home/tags/venezuela

Or, it could be that the UN is also part of the Chavez cult. :shrug:

[laughingliberal]

347. +1000

I guess soon we will see Democrats doing the same type of UN bashing we see from right wingers.

[Judi Lynn]

351. Re: your claim we "feel good about supporting this dictator, meanwhile the poor in Venezuela starve"

Here's more info. many of us learned long ago:

A Vision of Food Sovereignty for Venezuela
Wednesday, 03 September 2008 08:50 News
Christina Schiavoni, WHY Global Movements Program Co-Director

A Process of Transformation

In the state of Yaracuy in the northwest of Venezuela, a small yellow, blue, and red flag flaps in the wind, rising above a dusty brown field dotted with tiny green sprouts of corn. Nearby sit a makeshift shelter, some agricultural equipment, and a banner on wooden poles. This is the newly formed Pele el Ojo ("Be Aware") Cooperative, and though it may not look like much, it represents a lot.

This is not the first time that the oldest members of the co-op have lived and farmed on this land. This was the site of a small farming community, which was violently occupied by a wealthy landholder during the Perz Jimnez dictatorship in the 1950s. The landholder put up fences and declared control over everything inside “ including the people. Some were massacred on the spot, others were coerced into slavery-like conditions, and eventually, all were displaced.

Today, some of the very people who were expelled from this land are part of the process of reclaiming it - together with their children and grandchildren. Now that they are back on their land, they are working to transform it based on a shared vision of what it can become. "We plan to create a diversified system with different types of fruit and vegetables to provide better food for the people in this area," explain several of the elders. "We will restore the soil, which has been poisoned over time, using ecological practices rather than toxic agrochemicals. We want to move away from a system that makes the Earth and people sick to one that is healthy for the people and the Earth."

The elders explain that reviving the land means reviving the agricultural practices that had been nearly lost along with it. They demonstrate the traditional way of planting corn, using machetes and wooden poles (four kernels are planted in each hole - "one for food; one for seed, one for birds, one for thieves"). Moments later, they show off a new tractor and other farm equipment that they have received from the government. Achieving their vision for this land will require a mix of traditional wisdom and new methods.

~snip~
Communities Feeding Themselves

The efforts to bolster domestic food production in Venezuela are being met with efforts to increase the ability of communities to feed themselves. There are over 6000 casas de alimentación, or feeding houses, around the country -- similar to US soup kitchens, but with a much broader mission. Casas provide nutritious food to those who need it most (pregnant women, children, the elderly, etc.), but are also meant to serve as hubs of community gathering and organizing. These programs are primarily based out of people's homes, and many were started by volunteers, purely to meet needs of their communities. They are now run through a remarkable grassroots/government partnership: the government provides food and kitchen equipment, and members of the community prepare the food and keep the sites running.

As the program has become established, those who run the casas now receive stipends, increasing community self-sufficiency. A woman who runs a feeding program directly out of her living room in the El Valle neighborhood of Caracas is clear about her priorities: "This is my job, but I don't do it for the money. This is my contribution to the process ." Additionally, the government promotes Venezuelan agriculture in the food that it provides to the casas, with the goal of eventually supplying 100% Venezuelan-grown food.

Along with providing for those most in need, there is an emphasis on universal access to affordable high-quality food. In 2002, the government started Mercal , a national network of subsidized food markets. The markets were created after a group opposing the government attempted to bring the national economy to a standstill by halting oil production and shutting down major industries. Major food distributors withheld food supplies and corporate-run supermarkets closed. This drove home the implications of Venezuela importing over 70% of its food, primarily from large corporations.

In response, the government stepped up its food sovereignty efforts by bolstering Venezuelan agriculture for domestic consumption and creating food storage facilities and the Mercal system to serve the people. Food in each of the over 15,000 Mercal outlets around the country is sold at 20-50% off regular prices, and the stores are open to anyone of any income level. Markets range in size from mobile Mercales and tiny Mercalitos to large-scale markets, some of which now include pharmacies to increase access to affordable medical supplies. Packaging for staples such as corn meal and rice are decorated with educational messages and excerpts from the Venezuelan constitution.

More:
http://www.whyhunger.org/news-and-alerts/47-why-speaks/550-a-vision-of-food-sovereignty-for-venezuela.html

"What a stupid web we weave when first we practise to deceive."

[sabrina 1]

390. What an insult the people of Venezuela your baseless propaganda

is. Do you really have such a low opinion of them? I don't get it. Is it racism, 'those brown people are too stupid to know they are voting for a dictator' over an over again? Because that is what you are saying.

Ugly U.S. exceptionalism at work in South and Central America still and being supported back here.

You are supporting the policies of dictatorship, torture and enslavement of indigenous people in South America. The policies the U.S. badly wants to go back to and leaders like Chavez are fighting hard against.

Explain your ridiculous and ignorant charge of 'dictator'. And don't bother using the 'media shut-down' charge, we've already debunked it in this thread.

Not one of you anti-Chavez propagandists have said anything other than use rightwing slogans such as yours.

Oh, and using bigger letters doesn't help you prove your assertion. I look forward to your informed reasoning as to why anyone should call Chavez a 'dictator'.

[sabrina 1]

309. What a deceptive post and how stupid of you when your own link

contradicts YOUR rhetoric. Did you just skim it to try to find something negative? You found ONE sentence which you took out of context and editorialized. Did you think people would not read the link?

Contrary to your deceptive post, the article is very positive about Chavez's efforts to end domestic violence in Venezuela. As is Amnesty International.

Try as I did, I could not find where Amnesty Int. stated that Venezuela's efforts were 'rhetoric' as you claimed. Making stuff up are you?

First, let's finish that sentence that you edited to suit your own purposes starting with the part you posted:

The report estimates that nearly 90% of domestic violence cases still go unreported in Venezuela, but the report highlights statistics from Venezuela's Scientific, Penal, and Criminal Investigations Unit (CICPC), which show that the number of women who came forward doubled after the law was passed in March 2007.

Left out that very important piece of information. I wonder why someone would do something like that. That is a 50% improvement in reporting because of the law!!!

Your credibility is shot. People who edit material to produce a false impression are in the same league as radical rightwing nutjobs Breitbart, Giles and O'Keefe.

To continue, more from your very own link. Amnesty International called the law 'rhetoric' you say?? Let's let them speak for themselves:

In a report released Wednesday, the international NGO Amnesty International (AI) called Venezuela’s 2007 Law on the Right of Women to a Life Free of Violence “an example for the rest of the region,” but said practical implementation of the law has been slow.

"An example for the rest of the region". It couldn't be more different from the lie you told about what they said!!

And then there's this:

“Venezuela’s government needs to step up to the challenge set by the 2007 law,” Marengo asserted.

Venezuelan government institutions have indeed taken some significant steps recently toward carrying out the measures mandated by the landmark law.

In March, President Hugo Chávez created the unprecedented Ministry of Women's Issues, and named the director of the National Women’s Institute, María León, as minister.

Next time you decide to lie about something read the links you plan to provide. :rofl: You accomplished the exact opposite of what you intended, but you demonstrated beautifully the lengths anti-Chavistas will go to to lie about him.

Thanks for the links and for the demonstration of the deceiving tactics practiced by anti-Chavez propagandists.

I don't think anything more needs to be said.

[Judi Lynn]

337. Stupendous post, sabrina 1. Thanks for taking the time. So good. n/t

[Flaneur]

408. Your own links betray your bullshit:

AI calls the law "an example for the rest of the region," AI notes that an emergency hotline had received nearly 30,000 calls, AI says 90% of domestic abuse cases go unreported in Venezuela (how does that compare with other Latin American countries?), but that the number of women reporting has doubled under the new law, AI praised social programs but said they should be expanded more. AI didn't say anything about "you won't get beat if you don't leave tghe kitchen."

And your last sentence is just a sad distortion of what AI said. Pathetic.

From your link above:

Mérida, July 17, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com)-- In a report released Wednesday, the international NGO Amnesty International (AI) called Venezuela’s 2007 Law on the Right of Women to a Life Free of Violence “an example for the rest of the region,” but said practical implementation of the law has been slow. Meanwhile, Venezuela hosted a 32-country regional conference on violence against women and the Venezuelan Supreme Court created a special tribunal to manage domestic violence cases.

“The 2007 law has the potential to bring about real improvements in women’s lives. However, realizing that potential depends on political will and adequate resources,” states the report, which is titled, “The law is there, let’s use it: Ending Domestic Violence in Venezuela.”

The report highlights that an emergency hotline created by Venezuela's National Women's Institute (INAMUJER) has received 29,168 calls since it was created in 1999, and nearly 4,500 of these calls were received in 2007 alone.

According to the Deputy Director of Amnesty International’s Americas Program Guadalupe Marengo, “Thousands of women in Venezuela live in a constant state of fear of violence from their partners, fear for their lives and the safety of their children. When a safety net is not provided, many women feel that they have no choice but to stay with their abuser or to be homeless.”

The report estimates that nearly 90% of domestic violence cases still go unreported in Venezuela, but the report highlights statistics from Venezuela's Scientific, Penal, and Criminal Investigations Unit (CICPC), which show that the number of women who came forward doubled after the law was passed in March 2007.

The law, which replaced a similar but less extensive law passed in 1999, defines physical, sexual, psychological, and economic violence against women as human rights crimes, and outlines in detail the government’s responsibility to guarantee women’s rights.

Despite the immediate positive effects of the law, however, obstacles to stopping violence against women in Venezuela persist, including the lack of public awareness and education about the issue, inadequate data collection, insufficient shelters for victims, and insufficient police training and judicial infrastructure, AI indicates.

“Venezuela’s government needs to step up to the challenge set by the 2007 law,” Marengo asserted.

Venezuelan government institutions have indeed taken some significant steps recently toward carrying out the measures mandated by the landmark law.

In March, President Hugo Chávez created the unprecedented Ministry of Women's Issues, and named the director of the National Women’s Institute, María León, as minister.

Earlier this month, León announced that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Luisa Estela Morales, had created a new tribunal which would focus exclusively on violence against women and will have the capacity to try 5,000 cases per year.

This new court will help un-clog the part of the judicial system in which 11,000 domestic violence cases have been delayed because judges “do not believe them to be such an urgent priority,” said León.

Amnesty International’s report notes that the Venezuelan Attorney General’s Office promised in 2005 and again in 2007 to create 100 public prosecutors’ offices specializing in gender-based violence, but had not actually set up any such offices at the time information was gathered for the report.

The women's ministry has also expanded social programs directed toward women, especially the “Mothers of the Neighborhood Mission,” which provides an income and entrepreneurial assistance to poor mothers.

The AI report praised such social programs and said they should be expanded more, pointing out that violence against women not only violates the right to a life free of violence, but also limits women’s ability to fully enjoy their economic and political rights.

According to León, the new Ministry has also teamed up with Chief Justice Morales to train Venezuelan judges to manage gender violence cases, and Morales appointed two regional public attorneys to do the same.

State-level women’s institutions have also conducted public education campaigns. Throughout the month of June, the Women and Family Institute of the state of Mérida (IMMFA) tabled town squares across the state to distribute information about the 2007 law.

“The events are directed toward students, organizations that receive denunciations, health care centers, organized communities, and community groups, who made the commitment to pass on the information they received,” said IMMFA President Carmen Urdaneta.
Also in early July, Venezuela hosted a conference of the 32 Latin American countries that had signed the Inter-American Convention to Prevent, Eradicate, and Sanction Violence Against Women in Belem Do Pará, Brazil in 1994.

According to the Venezuela's top public defender, Gabriela Ramírez, the purpose of the conference was “the review of the advances and obstacles” in signatory countries’ pursuit of the goals of the convention.

[defendandprotect]

376. This isn't sexism . . . what if he had said that Obama is simply a "black" Bush???

Would that be sexism?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

318. I disagreed with a posters view on chavez, how exactly do that make me ignorant?

Also I'm quite aware of the behavior of the US in LA in the past, and some in the present; and while 'some' was good, most was not.

[Wilms]

339. Apologies. I intended the reply for that same poster.

:(

[Bodhi BloodWave]

340. no worries

Accidents happen after all, I was just confused for a bit on why you seemed to agree with me yet chided me :hug:

[Greyhound]

13. Well, it isn't much of a trip, is it? n/t

[upi402]

18. Fool. We assassinate their elected leaders. Neoliberlism destroys their economy

And when one goofy guy gets in power and says/does some radical thing - the whole issue of legitimacy goes upside down for you.
You have to have seen this very rudimentary info, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHPPpL9z9GE

And goggle;
Philip Agee

Eugene Hossenfuss (sp?)

Chavez is whackjob, true. But is a modern pragmatist going to put his neck on the block and refuse to cash in on his position? He is a radical, and seems to be the only one calling bullshit on the bullshit.

[justinaforjustice]

43. Stop Buying the U.S. Media/State Department Bull Shit.

As an American living in Venezuela for the last three years, it never fails to amaze me how progressives on democratic underground and daily kos, who presumably know that our media is owned and operated by right wing conservatives, believe the lies told by that same right wing media about President Hugo Chavez.

Since his first election in 1998, President Chavez and his party have won fourteen out of fifteen democratic elections. His popularity is above 65% here. The reason is that the Chavez government has brought free health care to millions of citizen, through neighborhood clinics, who had never had such access previously. His literacy mission has brought reading and writing skills to millions, and access to high school and university education to millions more -- at no cost to them. New labor laws have been put in place which favor the workers, not the bosses and companies which refuse to bargain in good faith with their unions have been nationalized and labor conditions vastly improved. The foregoing are only a few of the progressive programs which the Chavez government has implemented.

President Chavez is a visionary thinker who seeks to improve the living conditions of his people. This scares the hell out of the U.S. State Department and the U.S. media. What if Americans began demanding free health care and education? What if they began demanding labor laws which protect workers instead of corporations? Our corporatist government and media have reason to fear Chavez's ideas, thus they demonize him. Sad that progressives buy that demonization.

Almost fifty million Americans lack access to health care, while fifty million more are under-insured and many face bankruptcy because of medical bills, even those with insurance. Thanks to the Bush administration, our educational system has undergone a massive decline in quality and millions of Americans are now functionally illiterate.

The United States desperately needs programs like those implemented by the Chavez government, but what we are getting instead is legislation mandating we buy private insurance, with no public option, from the same companies that have been robbing us blind in premiums and co-pays.

Given the opportunity to vote, millions of Americans would choose single-payer health care like Canada's or nationally provided health care, like Britain's and Venezuela's. What American family, other than the richest one per cent, would reject free university education to the doctoral level? What union-member would not vote for a constitutional right to unionization or for labor laws that favored the rights of workers, which Venezuela has, thanks to President Chavez.

This "whackjob" you so glibly attack has brought vast improvement to the lives of more than thirty million people in Venezuela. Would that we had a few "whackjobs" like this in our Congress, not to mention our presidential office.

[upi402]

72. I admitted defeat when I saw you lived there 3 years

But when I read further I was happy to see that you proved true all that I've read - in alternative media sources. Edification.
I call him a 'whackjob' only because of a long rant or two that I've seen him go off on. It was on youtube and I was shocked it wasn't on a tapeloop on CNN or Fox.

I'll take a 'whackjob' like him over corporatist-light Obama any day. In fact, I feel it's over-with here in America before his 1st term is expired. I felt crazy-grampa Perot would be radical enough to block NAFTA and supported him after it was clear that the Democratic nominee was a corporatist. "Whackjob" is a term of endearment in our house, by the way! And after Rahm let the cat out of the bag, "fucking retard" is the new badge of honor.

I also take god's name in vain as a nod to equal opportunity. Don't figure a god would give a damn.

[glitch]

247. Well done smack down

Or should I say wack-a-mole. OT, what took you to Venezuela?

[upi402]

264. Did you see that we agreed?

That was the point. The poster was upset because I used the term 'whacko/whackjob'. And Chavez has been whacky as hell. His behavior is extreme and erratic at times. But we both agreed about the results of his policy.

Maybe I'm off base but please reread. No worries.
:fistbump:

[glitch]

360. Yes I did! Sorry to imply otherwise.

Sometimes I write posts to reinforce points made, it's like nodding IRL. I should've said Agreed, and... but I was being lazy I guess. :hi:

[Greyhound]

304. Thank you very much, well said. n/t

[sabrina 1]

392. Excellent post. I notice the anti-Chavez sloganeers have

nothing to say to your first-hand account of life in Venezuela under the Chavez government.

Right on target about how Americans would vote, if they had the freedom of information in the media to inform them that they need.

Thank you!

[EFerrari]

47. Yeah, Chavez is a wackjob like Howard Dean is angry and Kerry is unAmerican.

:shrug:

[seeinfweggos]

51. i can't wait to hear his opinion on their bra sizes. nt

[EFerrari]

55. Clumsy threadjacking. The truth is, on her last sweep through Latin America

Clinton came home with nothing. Brazil refused to buy in and now the Colombian courts are looking to overturn their commitment to our expanded presence there.

Neither Obama nor Clinton have made a single move since the inauguration that Latin America can throw in with. And that's a shame. A very rare opportunity wasted and for nothing.

[seeinfweggos]

59. oh well in that case sexism is good. how did i not see it? nt

[EFerrari]

62. That doesn't even make sense. Maybe it's not your fault.

:)

[seeinfweggos]

76. what doesn't make sense is saying u.s. imperialism makes chavez' sexism ok nt

nt

[EFerrari]

92. That's your poor lame strawman. n/t

[sabrina 1]

148. What DOES make sense, and I see many people have

taken advantage of it, is to use your posts to educate those who know little about Chavez. So, in the spirit of finding something positive in everything, even failure, I thank you for giving them an opportunity that without your failed attempts to distract, we would not have had.

I suspect a lot of people reading some of these excellent, informed posts provided by people who actually know what they are talking about and are not easily distracted or indoctrinated by U.S. propaganda, know a lot more about Chavez and Venezuela than they did before you entered the thread. All in all, you have actually made a considerable contribution to the thread, even if that was not your intention ~ Chavez thanks you also I'm sure - :hi:

[fascisthunter]

379. that's why the good mods keep these posts up

very informative indeed.

[Judi Lynn]

178. You should be embarrassed when you get sober. Bra sizes? Really? n/t

[seeinfweggos]

263. that was back when i thought he was saying sexist shit - not the racist

spew it turned out to be.

[laughingliberal]

350. Prime example of straining out gnats and swallowing camels. nt

[DCKit]

98. Seriously. Hillary is FAR more dangerous. n/t

[harun]

23. Vive Chavez!

[seeinfweggos]

25. viva not vive. nt

[harun]

295. I was saying it in French, so suk it.

[ShortnFiery]

316. Too funny!

My buddy from France corrected me ... the opposite way. :silly: :hi:

[Radical Activist]

29. Yeah, pretty much.

The prospect of continuing the Clinton-era free-trade, neoliberal, anti-socialist, neo-colonialist agenda in Latin America is why her appointment worried me. I wouldn't expect Hillary's approach to Latin America to be very different from Bush's, and I wonder how much she's influencing Obama's policy.

[Beacool]

33. Chavez is a repressive SOB wannabe dictator.

He has closed TV stations, radio stations, taken land from property owners, threatened reporters and anyone who opposes him. The land taken is not only from well to do people. There was recently a poor farmer who was on a hunger strike and close to death protesting the government's take over of his land.

I can't understand why people here would support him. Left wing dictators are no better than right wing ones. They all oppress their people and suppress freedom of speech.

x(

[EFerrari]

39. LOL. So, is he a dictator or a wannabe dictator?

And what is under that steaming pile of accusations, I wonder. :)

[Beacool]

86. Go live in Venezuela or Cuba for a while and see how much you enjoy it.

I have lived in countries with repressive regimes and have seen up close how these people operate. Chavez is no better, just another bully.

;(

[EFerrari]

90. And you avoid the question to make more unsupportable claims. Okay.

[Wilms]

101. You could have read the thread more carefully before making that 'qualified' assumption.

While I hear you when you say you've "lived in countries with repressive regimes", this poster lives in VZ.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7858350&mesg_id=7858650

[justinaforjustice]

177. I am Living in Venezuela and It Is A Thriving Democracy

Much is made of the Chavez government's refusal to renew the broadcasting license of one TV station that openly and persistently called for the violent overthrow of the duly elected government. RCTV also violated public laws against advertising cigarettes, liquor and showing sexually provocative material during children's viewing hours.

Would the U.S. FCC re-new a license for a broadcaster who entreated people to take to the streets to over-turn an election and bring down the government? That's what RCTV did and its license was not renewed. (It's general manager was an active participant in the junta which overthrew Chavez in 2002 and supported the abolition of the Constitution and the National Assembly (Ve's Congress).

There are hundreds, if not thousands of newspapers in Venezuela, 90 percent of which are privately owned, and the majority favor the opposition. They publish daily.

The opposition freely takes to the streets to protest anything and everything the Chavez government does. Recently here in Mérida, opposition thugs burnt down the local offices of the electric company after staging demonstrations in which they burnt tires,threw molotov cocktails, and broke into private businesses. What were they protesting this time? The fact that, due to lack of rain, there was a rationing of electricity. Right, protest a lack of electricity by burning down the electric company. This is how outrageous and irrational the opposition frequently is. But the government has made no attempt to stop these demonstrations, and take place they do, blocking roads, interfering with commuters, burning passenger buses. The opposition can't win a majority in the ballot box, so they are using violence to try to destabilize the government. This is the opposition that the U.S. government is financially funding. Fortunately, it is not working.

LIfe is by no means perfect in Chavez's Venezuela, but his government is working to improve conditions for the people and it is happening. The bureaucracy here is staggering, an accumulation of rules and procedures dating from 15 century Spanish rule, which actively obstructs progressive changes.

It is an enormous job to move from a capitalist economic system to a socialist one in face of a world capitalist hegemony which makes it extremely difficult for any one country to "opt out" of the profit-driven system, and which is actively trying to dismantle Venezuelan socialism.

But, either the world will change to a system based on human priorities rather than profit-driven ones, or the world will not survive. Venezuela and the other countries in Latin America which are putting human needs before corporate profits need to be supported and encouraged for the sake of our children, grandchildren and their progeny. Capitalism is destroying our world. We have to save it.

[scarletwoman]

182. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

It's so disheartening seeing so many so-called "liberals" swallowing the capitalist demonization of socialist movements hook, line, and sinker.

Like they can't imagine that just maybe they're being lied to by people who are clearly bent on destroying any attempt to overthrow the rule of predatory capitalism.

sw

[laughingliberal]

352. ... and can't imagine they are being lied to by the same corporate controlled MSM they fully

acknowledge lies to them about anything that is not favorable to corporate power. It's just weird. The MSM lies to them about everything else but is telling the truth about Chavez and the astroturf protests in Venezuela? Yeah, that makes sense.

[scarletwoman]

465. You make such a salient point -- I didn't want to let it pass unremarked upon.

It is VERY weird, as you say. DUers are generally quite sharp about corporate media bias, and it's been discussed ad nauseum here for years and years.

And yet when this same rightly-maligned corporate media puts out yet another attack piece on Chavez, they are miraculously transformed into dispassionate truth-tellers.

I really don't get this cognitive dissonence.

I don't defend Chavez against the media smears against him because I think he can do no wrong, I do it solely in hopes of breaking through the fog of propaganda that so many DUers seem far too willing to give themselves over to.

Thank you for your excellent post.

sw

[JackRiddler]

492. Imagine NBC had spent 48 hours supporting a coup d'etat against Bush.

You think the retaliation would have been that five years later, they don't have their license renewed?!

Right about now, Obama's people would be recommending that it would be best not to give Brian Williams (in his eighth year of isolation in Gitmo, after having been waterboarded 200 times) a civilian trial in New York after all. Too close to Rockefeller Center.

[JackRiddler]

491. What's the basis of comparison? El Salvador? Colombia? Haiti? Mexico?

I'll take residence in Cuba or Venezuela over those countries.

Which would you choose?

[Dramarama]

82. x2

[upi402]

93. and WHY did he close TV stations? n/t

[Fast Dude]

188. I believe they call it censorship n/t

[EFerrari]

206. If Keith Olbermann called for Bush's assassination

the station would not only be shut down, he'd be in custody.

And, it's funny because the Clinton State Department had no problem at all with the real censorship that happened in Honduras last summer, up to and including the torture of journalists.

Fail.

[Fast Dude]

213. Ever hear of Death of a President

As far as know...nobody in America was shut down or went to jail.

Fail.

[sabrina 1]

227. Ever hear of protestors at political conventions

demonstrating peacefully in the 'land of the free' being arrested and jailed and charged with terrorism? Spied on by the CIA? Infiltrated and pup on watch lists for simply expressing their political opinions?

No, that didn't happen in Venezuela, it happens here, in the country that has the nerve to criticize anyone else, and it happens on a regular basis.

As for your claim that if anyone on a U.S. news network were to call daily for the overthrow of the government, they would be ignored, you really are in a state of total denial. They would be hauled off to jail and charged with treason along with anyone who was associated with them.

We do not allow death threats, even on most internet boards, in this country especially against the President. So stop with your lies. Those traitors in Venezuela got off easy compared to what would happen to them here.

[Fast Dude]

239. Stop my lies?

Pull your head out of the sand, and put the bong down for a bit. You've had enough for today.

There are calls for revolution, threats of violence (even against presidents), and various other forms of free speech exercised on a daily basis. Yes, right here in America.

If I loved Venezuela or anywhere else that much, my ass would be on the next flight. Just sayin'...

[sabrina 1]

280. Funny, I did a search to find all these threats of violence and

calls for bringing down the government and encouraging violence against government officials. I looked for someone who had previously been involved in an attempted coup against a sitting president, involved in such threats, and I could find a single case remotely resembling the Venezuela situation. As a matter of fact, most people who issue threats against the president, are in jail.

I did find this one:

Hal Turner, Talk Radio Host, Facing Charges For Inciting Violence Against Officials

"Mr. Turner's comments are above and beyond the threshold of free speech," Capitol Police Chief Michael J. Fallon said in an e-mail announcing the warrant. "He is inciting others through his website to commit acts of violence and has created fear and alarm. He should be held accountable for his conduct."

Mmm, that doesn't gel with your theory of violent threats being considered 'free speech'.

Guess Hal wishes you were right about how we deal with people who use the airways to threaten government officials. But maybe you can provide some examples?

What I love is the truth. What I despise are false accusations and smears against anyone. And whenever I see them, I respond with facts. For some reason, Oil being the most obvious, Venezuela's president has been the target of a U.S. backed Coup D'Etat and a non-stop propaganda campaign similar to what we see here conducted by the Rightwing Noise Machine against war heroes, like John Kerry and Max Kleland.

The reason for the campaign against Chavez is clear. He is not cooperating with the Global Capitalists and selling his country's resources for his own benefit. They prefer dictators who will suppress their own people in return for power and money.

That you support these rightwing tactics to interfere in the business of big oil producing countries, and by your support encourage this government to invade countries like Iraq or Iran, or Afghanistan, or de-stabilize countries in South America, like Venezuela, says a lot about you.

I will not support any campaign that is clearly being waged against the interests of independent democracies. Pat yourself on the back the Global Capitalist Oil Cartels thank you for your support but as Sen. Byrd once said before the illegal invasion of Iraq "I weep for my country".

I'll leave the bong to you, btw, I don't do drugs, I prefer to keep my mind clear. You might want to consider less bong and more research from now on.

[laughingliberal]

353. Am I the only one who knows a man in the US spent significant prison time for telling a joke about

Bush in a bar? This is nuts. It is illegal here to make threats against the President and it is illegal here to call for the overthrow of the government. Sedition is illegal free press or not.

[Judi Lynn]

357. Some of us read about that triumph of suppression, too. Some guy talking in a bar! No threats, nada.

Don't forget the woman who had a poster on the wall of her apartment showing _{George Bush} with a reference to his record number of executions while acting as the Texas Governor. She was visited from outta nowhere by a male and a female Sec. Service agent who came to check on the content of her poster.

The Poster Police
A Durham student activist gets a visit from the Secret Service

21 NOV 2001 • by Jon Elliston

A.J. Brown, a 19-year-old freshman at Durham Tech, was thanking God it was Friday. It was 5 p.m., the school week was over, and in an hour she'd be meeting her boyfriend to unwind.
Then: Knock, knock ... unexpected guests at Brown's Duke Manor apartment. Opening the door, she found a casually dressed man, and a man and woman in what appeared to be business attire. Her first thought, she says, was, "Are these people going to sell me something?"

But then the man in the suit introduced himself and the woman as agents from the Raleigh office of the U.S. Secret Service. The other man was an investigator from the Durham Police Department.

"Ma'am, we've gotten a report that you have anti-American material," the male agent said, according to Brown. Could they come in to have a look around?

"Do you have a warrant?" Brown asked. They did not. "Then you're not coming in my apartment," she said. And indeed, they stayed outside her doorway. But they stayed a while--40 minutes, Brown estimates--and gave her a taste of how dissenters can come under scrutiny in wartime.

And all because of a poster on her wall.

More:
http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A16759

Also the Car Museum in Texas:

Political dissent can bring federal agents to door
By Kris Axtman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

HOUSTON - It was 10:30 a.m. on Nov. 7 when the two men showed up.
Donna Huanca was alone, getting ready to open Houston's Art Car Museum. "They looked like robots," she says.

She told the men, dressed in dark suits and carrying leather portfolios, that they would have to wait until the doors opened at 11. That was when they flipped out their badges: They were federal agents investigating reports of "anti-American activity" at the tiny art gallery.

To FBI special agent Terrence Donahue and Steven Smith of the Secret Service, it was a routine mission to check out one of the more than 435,000 tips they have received since Sept. 11.

To Ms. Huanca, whose gallery was opening "Secret Wars," an exhibit on US covert operations and government secrets, it was something else. "What's anti-American about freedom of speech?" the docent blurted out.

The incident, which ended after an hour of questioning, represents more than just a disturbing day for one museum staffer. Across the US, growing numbers of Americans are facing similar interrogations - apparently, they say, because they have criticized the government, President Bush, or the war on terrorism.

More:
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/barry.html

ETC., ETC., ETC.

[laughingliberal]

359. Correct. And the point is it is not legal here to threaten the President or advocate the violent

overthrow of the government, broadcaster or not. A broadcast license is not a license to violate the law. If telling a joke about Bush got a man prison time I fail to see how pulling the licenses of stations advocating sedition makes a government dictatorial.

[EFerrari]

229. So, you don't know that Rumsfeld bombed Al Jazeera twice or kep Sami al Haj

in Gitmo for years -- he was one of them terrorist photographers.

You're comparing apples and goldfish.

[upi402]

269. did u ever see the film i linked?

censorship? actually, that was done to Chavez first. it was like the corporate media does here. But there, men with guns trapped him and hauled him off and then stole the 'election'. he learned from that and stood up to it. don't you ever wish the Dems stood up to the corporate media here?


shit- it happens;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHPPpL9z9GE

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

________________________________________

http://www.maxim.com/humor/stupid-fun/86265/mysterious-death-bushs-cyber-guru.html

The Mysterious Death of Bush's Cyber-Guru

Maxim
________________________________________

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

The Warning

PBS Frontline

[sabrina 1]

312. That was an excellent documentary 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised'

Speaking of censorship, you cannot find that movie here in the U.S. I tried to get several times from different video stores and couldn't find it. I finally saw by accident when someone put it on our public access channel and I was flipping through the channels one night.

I don't think it has ever been shown here in a theater. It was practically banned here. Contrary to the way it was received here, in Europe it received all kinds of awards.

Every American should see it and I'm glad it can be found online now.

[Judi Lynn]

341. Did you know Amnesty International had planned to show the documentary & withdrew due to threats?

It's touched upon in this Wiki. on the film itself. We saw articles on this pathetic situation several years ago:

Wikipedia

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (film)

~snip~
Distribution

In 2003, a shorter cut of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised—titled Chavez: Inside the Coup<1>—aired on television in the UK, Ireland, several other European countries and Japan.<3> In Venezuela, it premièred on 13 April 2003,<4> on state television channel Venezolana de Televisión (VTV), and it has been shown regularly on Venezuelan television since; the state-funded community station Catia TVe often broadcasts the film during "contentious political conjunctures", such as the 2004 recall referendum, the 2006 presidential election, and in 2007 to "help build support" for the government's controversial attempt to revoke the license of private television network RCTV. The filmmakers could not secure a US television deal, but in March 2003 a VHS of the film screened for "fewer than 100 people" as part of an American Cinematheque Irish film festival in Los Angeles. Among the viewers was the president of Vitagraph Films, David Schultz, who bought the rights for theatrical distribution and paid for the film to be converted from video. Schultz initially struggled to secure the support of exhibitors; they were skeptical of the film's commercial prospects, and believed "the environment was not hospitable" for a film critical of the US so close to the start of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. They only became receptive a few months later, when political perceptions shifted and the public became more aware of Venezuela because of its oil wealth. One such exhibitor was the Film Forum in New York City; Mike Maggiore, a programmer at the theater, worked to boost the commercial prospects of the film and raise its profile with film critics. He created press kits and circulated information to " a particular audience".<3>

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised appeared at several film festivals in 2003, including the Seattle International Film Festival, where it won Best Documentary, and the Chicago International Film Festival, where it won the Silver Hugo.<5> It premièred to the public at the Film Forum in November 2003. Its showing was accompanied by protests outside the theater from supporters and detractors of the film, both of whom "attempted to influence audience reception".<3> A few weeks previously, the film had been withdrawn from an Amnesty International film festival in Vancouver, as "Amnesty staff in Caracas said they feared for their safety if it were shown".<6> Opposition demonstrators at the Film Forum première attempted to throw doubt on the film's "impartiality, precision, veracity editorial integrity, and ideological independence", while supporters "encouraged theatergoers to denounce censorship" and sign a petition. Opposition protests also greeted showings in Canada, Australia and France. The run at the Film Forum earned $26,495, several thousand above expectations. After a limited run in other theaters, the film had earned over $200,000, "not enough to yield ... a profit", but still considered "a significant sum for a documentary".<3>

Pro-Chávez activists also distributed the film unofficially. For example, the Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador screened the film in New York City, where Bolivarian Circle members "accepted donations" for bootleg copies.<3> El Universal said the Venezuelan government had 10,000 copies made,<4> and according to National Review, the Venezuela Information Office (VIO) "encouraged art-house theaters" to screen the film.<7> Government representatives aided the film's distribution, both officially and unofficially.<3> Filmmaker Wolfgang Schalk said the film counted on the worldwide support of Venezuelan embassies and a public relations effort to show the film free at universities and theaters in cities such as San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago and New York.<4> Peace Action New York were given permission for a screening during a fund raiser in the Lincoln Center, where 250 people paid £35 each to see the film and " in a question-and-answer session" with guests such as Leonor Granado, the Venezuelan Consul General. The consulate office made DVDs of the film available to "anyone who wanted a copy", as Granado said the film was vital to "building support in for the Venezuelan government".<3> As of 2006, groups such as Global Exchange were arranging tours to Venezuela that included a screening of the film.<8> The annual International Documentary Festival in Amsterdam gives an acclaimed filmmaker the chance to screen his or her Top 10 films. In 2007, Iranian filmmaker Maziar Bahari selected The Revolution will not be Televised for his top ten classics from the history of documentary.<9>More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_(documentary)

[sabrina 1]

393. Oh, thank you for that information. I thought it was my imagination

at first when I tried to find it. While it apparently wasn't overt censorship, people were fearful of showing it publicly and that is intimidation.

The fact is we are in no position to criticize anyone, considering the disgraceful excuse for a news media our own system is. We ranked somewhere around 57th in the World's Free Press report a few years ago. No wonder we see people in threads like this who are so uninformed. You go to Europe and at least if someone disagrees with you it's an informed disagreement. Here it's just the Freeper-like 'He's a dictator' despite all the evidence to the contrary. And that's about the extent of the argument you get from average supporter of whatever America does.

I'd love to have a copy of it to show to people. It's a very well produced documentary and when I first caught on the public access station it was already in progress so I didn't know what it was. I watched it because it was gripping to watch and when I realized it was a movie I had been looking for, I was thrilled.

Thanks for the info. These documentaries are one of the few ways to inform people. The media certainly won't do it as evidenced by the anti-Chavistas in this thread.

[Happy Hippy]

112. Chavez is a joke.

The overstuffed Stalin of South America, it's quite a shame so many on DU support him.

He has all but wrecked the Venezuelan economy. Venezuelans are starving, inflation is rampant, murder and rape are through the rough - but alas he bashes the U.S. government, so he must be a good guy. It's quite comical that nearly a majority of Venezuelans don't support Chavez - yet DU Americans seems to know better.

[Dramarama]

126. Wouldn't say Stalin

but he is a detriment

[laughingliberal]

354. One of the posters on this thread has currently lived in Venezuela for 3 years

and disputes your remote assessment.

[fascisthunter]

380. a bunch of you only offer stupid insults... why is that?!

thanks for kicking the thread. It's very informative to see your crap get eviscerated.

[indepat]

36. Ouch!

:P

[scarletwoman]

85. Dead on accurate. That's pretty much how I see Clinton, too.

The Obama/Clinton State Department is just the same-old, same-old neoliberal/neocon anti-democracy pro-elite imperialist shit that has ALWAYS characterized U.S. foreign policy, no matter who sits in the White House.

Different pant suit, same policies.

sw

[upi402]

91. And all DU corporatists have is a bogus "sexism" charge

Well. that and the corporate media 'Dean scream" garbage against Chavez. Sure he's a human and has flaws. But they take only the surface story and don't look under the rock.

Anyway, it's as if we criticize Obama's corporatist policies and staff because we're racist. As if there should be a gender or racial 'force-field' around anyone female or non-white in power.

[seeinfweggos]

111. as if "corporatist" hasn't become the biggest fucking cliche around here nt

[EFerrari]

122. Harris got millions in defense contracts in Honduras as reward for the coup.

Nope, not a cliche. Fail.

[seeinfweggos]

127. it has become an absolutely meaningless term

also, where is the supposed what-hugo-really-said link? you claim the op is wrong but won't say how?

[EFerrari]

131. I didn't say the OP was wrong. I said you don't even know what he said.

You've been given the link already but you're too busy attacking women on this thread to find it.

Hilarious.

[seeinfweggos]

135. no hilarious the he's-not-sexist-he's-racist defense. l o to the f'n l

no wonder you didn't want to tell me what he said. hahahahah!

[ShortnFiery]

315. +1

:thumbsup:

[The Straight Story]

97. Chavez is Jesus, he can no wrong, and if you see him as wrong, it is just bias

Some here would never, ever, say something negative about him.

He has his own disciples preaching for him. What do they call that again??? Oh...apologetic.

[EFerrari]

106. Baloney. Latin America is just not having any more of this.

Brazil's president announced before he saw Hillary that he didn't agree with her position on Iran.

The leaders of Panama and Nicaragua didn't even bother to show up to a conference with her.

When you treat people like sh!t, eventually they get tired of it.

[seeinfweggos]

113. even supposed feminists will defend sexist statements if big strong hugo makes them. nt

[EFerrari]

115. And yet, you don't even know what he said. What a joke.

lol

[seeinfweggos]

116. it's in the OP. was the op wrong. then what did he say? nt

[seeinfweggos]

130. well i'll be damned. i owe hugo an apology. he wasn't being sexist

but rather racist.

roflmfaoayfibs

[seeinfweggos]

124. "To me, she's like Condoleezza Rice ... a blond Condoleezza,"

said the Venezuelan, referring to former U.S. president George W. Bush's secretary of state, with whom he exchanged frequent harsh words at long-distance.

[Warren Stupidity]

373. blanco = white not blonde

mistranslated. Also beside the point, the point being that there is no difference between Bush and Obama regimes with respect to LA policy.

[salguine]

120. He could have just shortened it to "Blondoleezza".

[sabrina 1]

149. I like that. 'Blondoleeza'! Watch out, someone might

pretend to be outraged at your 'sexism'! :rofl:

I love faux 'feminists' they are so transparent!

[glitch]

208. DUzy! That's a keeper. nt

[cali]

125. I find the Chavez adoristas as hilarious as any

other political groupies.

[seeinfweggos]

128. "adoristas"

good one.

[EFerrari]

129. Yes, good one. All you have is name calling because you have no argument

with his point. The current administration's Latin American policy is so far indistinguishable from the previous one. And that's a shame for a lot of people.

[seeinfweggos]

132. so your defense of him is that it was a mistranslation (predictable)

and he was actually commenting on her race? THAT is some funny shit.

[EFerrari]

134. Aren't you dizzy by now? Nope. I said he's right in saying

there has been no change in our Latin American policy and I also said it was hilarious how you hyperventilated all over this thread without even knowing what you were talking about. :)

[seeinfweggos]

138. wrong. the op quotes him as making a sexist remark

you say it wasn't, but rather it was about her race and that makes it ok. you should be dizzy indeed. my my.

[EFerrari]

152. Chavez is white and indigenous and black.

Are you saying he was insulting himself?

LOL

I love these threads. They're like flypaper for stupid. You could drop them right into freeperville and no one would notice.

Ciao.

[scarletwoman]

141. The defense of Chavez' statement is that it's true. There's no difference between the Latin America

policies of the current administration and the Latin America policies of the last administration. It's the same old imperialist anti-democracy pro-corrupt elites policy that's characterized U.S. interventions in Latin America for decades.

The Secretary of State is merely the face of those policies. Pointing out that the physical face has changed, but the policies remain the same is absolutely the truth.

But, apparently that's far too complex a notion for you to grasp.

[seeinfweggos]

144. and pointing out people's race is always helpful

and by helpful i mean not helpful at all.

[scarletwoman]

147. Oh how awful! If such an irresponsible comment hadn't been made, no one would have EVER noticed that

Condeleeza is black and Hillary is white.

:eyes:

[rabs]

155. You are right on

Reuters, intentionally or not, mistranslated. Chávez did not use the word "blond."

Here is exactly what he said:

CARACAS, 5 Mar. (EUROPA PRESS)

El presidente de Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, criticó la visita a Brasil de la secretaria de Estado de Estados Unidos, Hillary Clinton, quien criticó al mandatario venezolano en varias entrevistas concedidas a los medios brasileños. "Ella fue a Brasil cual Condoleezza Rice, pero blanca, a agredir a Venezuela", dijo Chávez en un discurso transmitido por los medios estatales.

(My translation)

The president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, criticized the visit to Brazil of the secretary of sate of the United States, Hillary Clinton, who criticized the Venezuelan leader in various interviews with the Brazilian media. "She went to Brazil like Condoleezza Rice, but white, to attack Venezuela," Chávez said in a speech transmitted by state media.

For readers of Spanish:

http://www.europapress.es/internacional/noticia-chavez-dice-clinton-fue-brasil-cual-condoleezza-rice-blanca-agredir-venezuela-20100305083039.html

[HughMoran]

168. "...like Condoleezza Rice, but white, ..."

Isn't saying he called her "blond" a more forgiving translation?

[scarletwoman]

172. How about, "Different package, same shit"?

Only someone would have screamed "sexist!" about the word package, too.

The single relevant point remains -- the Obama administration's policies toward Latin America are no different from Bush's. Ask the Hondurans who resisted the military coup in their country -- at least the ones who haven't been murdered yet by coupster government that the U.S. supports.

[HughMoran]

174. The relevant point is that Chavez says ridiculous shit to get attention

...'cause he's an attention whore.

[Judi Lynn]

199. Apparently it has never occurred to you no other leader in the world has our corporate media

rushing to print everything they can throw at him every single day.

Attention whore? The corporate media literally breathe down his neck 24/7. Of course they're writing a lot about him. They follow him around waiting for everything they can turn into crap for the US reactionaries to consume.

You'd be getting daily boatloads of quotes from ANY official they prey upon, as many people realized long ago. Comments US-supported bloody butcher, Augusto Pinochet who said no blade of grass moved in Chile without his order.

Do yourself the honor of taking time out to think things over first.

[HughMoran]

232. So the media should be squelched because they criticize him?

Seriously, is that what you are justifying? He literally shut down a huge number of stations because they criticized him and would not broadcast his opinion per his decree. This is not how a democracy is run.

[Judi Lynn]

237. Are you certain what you've posted is accurate? Please post any link you have to substantiate it.

Doesn't sound at ALL like anything I've seen, and I've been looking, daily.

[HughMoran]

238. Chavez Closes 34 Radio Stations

AP) Some 200 Venezuelans gathered outside a Caracas broadcaster Saturday to protest a decision by President Hugo Chavez's government to revoke the licenses of 34 radio stations.

The demonstration occurred outside CNB 102.3 FM, which cut its over-the-air transmission Saturday morning on orders from the telecommunications regulatory agency and is now transmitting only over the Internet.

Station director Zaira Belfort said CNB planned to appeal the order, but she warned that the shutdown decision is likely "only the beginning of the closures of free media in Venezuela."

"This is a government attack," she said. "We want to keep living in democracy, and once again they've silenced us."

Chavez said Saturday that he approved the telecommunications agency's decision to shut down radio stations ruled to be operating illegally.

"We're applauding Diosdado for the decision he has made to take back these stations for the people," Chavez said, referring to agency chief Diosdado Cabello.

Chavez said previously that the revoked licenses could be given to broadcasters who share his socialist vision.

...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/02/world/main5205473.shtml


"Chavez said previously that the revoked licenses could be given to broadcasters who share his socialist vision."

You think that is acceptable?

[Judi Lynn]

254. You don't recognize spin when you see it? Most people do.

AP (among others) has been spinning against the left for YEARS.

Concealed within this wildly spun article are a few facts:

"We're applauding Diosdado for the decision he has made to take back these stations for the people," Chavez said, referring to agency chief Diosdado Cabello.

Chavez said previously that the revoked licenses could be given to broadcasters who share his socialist vision.

International media groups and human rights activists have accused the government of trying to stifle dissent. But Cabello denies the government is trying to limit freedom of expression or punish political opponents, saying licenses are being revoked only for violating regulations.

In announcing the revocations Friday, Cabello said some of the 34 stations failed to update their registrations or let their concessions expire, while others held licenses granted to an operator who is now deceased.

Caballo himself initiated this action, NOT Hugo Chavez. If you spent more time thinking instead of reacting you would have a far different perspective.

[hack89]

384. Caballo was a member of Chavez's coup

and former chief of staff. He doesn't wipe his ass without Hugo's permission.

Do you really think anyone that would participate in a coup actually has any respect for the rule of law?

[laughingliberal]

355. Once again, even in America, the 1st amendment does not protect sedition

It is illegal here to incite the overthrow of the government and it is illegal in Venezuela. Calling for the violent overthrow of the government, as the right wing media in Venezuela has been doing, would get their licenses pulled here, too.

[Warren Stupidity]

374. You might want to fact check that assertion. nt.

[Judi Lynn]

250. You are not responding to my post which was written directly concerning your claim

Hugo Chavez is an "attention whore."

My post is accurate.

You apparently are trying to change the subject, or you don't understand the written word.

[Wilms]

246. He got yours.

And you hadn't even had your "victory beer".

:eyes:

[seeinfweggos]

258. ironically it seems i've actually been defending him

it was racist not sexist. the sexist part was the cleaned up propaganda version. i wonder if that came from the much beloved ministry of women.

[sabrina 1]

320. What you did was to make a complete fool of yourself

which you are now admitting, with your ridiculous 'sexist' charge. And now you're about to go off on another tangent, wrong again, but I doubt that will stop you. So off you go, I expect another admission three hundred posts from now when it finally dawns on you that you were wrong yet again! :eyes:

[sabrina 1]

216. Should either Hillary or Condi Rice be ashamed of their race?

Why should stating what someone's race is be a fearful thing to do? Most people I know are proud of their heritage and have no problem being identified by it.

Do you jump up and down when you hear the news every night where people's race is constantly used to identify them? Have you spent as much time calling news outlets complaining and calling them racist when you report the news using race to describe people in the news? 'White middle-aged woman slammed into a car driven by a young African American man' eg? Is that racism?

So, you've moved from 'sexist' after losing that argument to 'racist' but you still have not answered the questions you've been asked, nor have you shown that you have one iota of knowledge about Venezuela. Which is why I asked the questions I asked. But you have avoided answering them so I will assume that you support the policies of Reagan/Bush et al, the support of brutal dictators and all that that entailed for the people of Latin America, policies that Chavez has released his country from. That is the only explanation for your pathetic, sad, hatred for someone you clearly know nothing about.

[HughMoran]

165. Oh. My. God. Pot, meet Kettle

Wow. I am stunned.

[sabrina 1]

230. Wow, you're easily stunned. I wouldn't want to be in a crisis situation

with you. Calm down, it was a comment, not a nuclear bomb!

Hillarious, Chavez haters are so scared of everything. Mostly though, I am used to them being rightwingers. Funny to find them on progressive boards. Funny in a strange way I mean.

[Happy Hippy]

298. Yup.

I sincerely hope that these adoristas wake up and smell the coffee. Mark my words, something will happen that will be impossible to justify, yet, we will see folks aimlessly try. Chavez is a loose cannon, and sadly the only one's who will be caught in the explosion are the poor people of Venezuela.

[polly7]

133. Lame,

'Adoristas' ie. people who know damn well what U.S. AND Canadian Gov'ts have done to cause harm to the Latin American people. LOL Nice to have a label for everyone who pushes your buttons though.

[HughMoran]

166. Completely on target.

These people adore dictators and would enslave us all given the chance. Not my kind of liberal.

[polly7]

175. I don't know of anyone who adores dictators ......... well, except those

who idolized *, the wannabe dictator. Chavez says what he thinks, many in Latin America well know how they've been used. If being a dictator is taking back resources belonging to a nation's people - for the people - in ways that are unpopular with the rest of the world who makes mountains out of molehills every time he speaks, well ........ so be it.

[HughMoran]

180. "taking back resources belonging to a nation's people"

"Venezuelans Lose More Media Outlets as Chavez Takes Over Radio Stations"

http://vivirlatino.com/2009/08/03/venezuelans-lose-more-media-outlets-as-chavez-takes-over-radio-stations.php

[polly7]

183. Oh whatever.

Compare how the people of Venezuela are doing now as compared to before his leadership and then come back and tell me he's done nothing good for them. Those Radio Stations if I remember correctly were responsible in aiding in the coup against him. Maybe if Fux was shut down Obama's words wouldn't be twisted as much as they are either. Desperate times call for desperate actions - a coup, and knowing how unpopular his social programs were enabled due the taking back of resources, is as unpopular with the capitalists today as it was then. He may be a loudmouth, but certainly not a stupid man. He also is loved by the majority of his people.

[HughMoran]

186. It's OK to take over radio stations like a dictator?

Please tell me you didn't just justify that anti-democratic action - please?

[polly7]

187. Sure, if they've been part of planning a 'coup' to remove

a democratically elected leader - you bet. Don't see a thing wrong with it, myself. Millions of people elected him, what about them?

[HughMoran]

189. So all he has to say is "they're plotting against me". No democratic process, just dictate?

You have no problem with dictators - that's fucking scary.

[polly7]

192. LOL. No. That's just your fantasy.

I have a problem with dictators, B* for example. Chavez, I consider a leader fighting hard against yet another coup involving a bunch of capitalistic pigs with no problem how many Venezuelan people suffered in the past and will suffer again. You're fucking scary the way you think you know what someone else is thinking. Psychic, or delusional???

[HughMoran]

196. I see no facts in your defense

Just a bunch of propaganda. i.e. "yet another coup involving a bunch of capitalistic pigs" - you're a caricature - I'm trying not to laugh too hard.

[polly7]

201. Read a little,

it does wonders. Venezuela.......... heck - all of Latin America and what they've been through. Put on some depends if you're having bladder problems, could be something serious, so a check-up might not hurt too.

[HughMoran]

203. I've read it

I understand that the US and other interests have been supporting people who would undercut the socialist governments in other countries, but that doesn't justify taking dictatorial actions without due process or proof - it just doesn't. I will NOT trust any leader on just their word. Anybody who does is a dangerous sheep.

[polly7]

204. What would happen to a news source deliberately trying to

overthrow your gov't? Are you denying it happened in Venezuela? Go on, pretend it hasn't. I'm sure calling people caricatures and sheep because I've read all the disgusting things we've done to people in Latin America makes you feel superior, but save your keyboard a few strokes, I usually just ignore it ........ just so you know.

P.S. If you've 'read it', then I'm sure you're just looking for a fight. No thanks. I know. I don't really care if you do know but choose to hate the messenger. That's your problem, not mine.

[HughMoran]

205. Just prove it

Please stop justifying the takeover of radio stations and prove that they should have been simply taken over without any democratic process.

[polly7]

207. But .......... but .................. you've 'read it'. LOL. Read it again, you

must have missed what you didn't want to see. Do you own re-homework.

[HughMoran]

212. Here, read this...

CARACAS -- President Hugo Chavez's administration is moving to tighten its grip over Venezuela's media industry by expanding its oversight of private broadcasters, pledging to take off the air 154 FM radio stations and threatening to shut down cable-television providers.

It's the latest step in Mr. Chavez's decade-long battle with the country's private media that has already cost one of the country's most popular television networks its broadcasting license and could take Venezuela's only nationwide private 24-hour news channel, which is critical of the president, off the airwaves.

Public Works Minister Diosdado Cabello, who is also head of the government's broadcasting regulator, announced Thursday the government's new blueprint for the media industry.

The new regulations will bring under government oversight private Venezuelan channels that only broadcast through private cable providers.

The new law is sure to hit the RCTV network, which locked horns with Mr. Chavez and saw its broadcasting license expire without renewal in 2007. Since then, RCTV has survived through cable broadcasts.

Now RCTV, like other cable channels with 70% or more locally produced programming, will likely be required to carry Mr. Chavez's nationwide TV appearances, just like other channels and radio stations.

Mr. Cabello, one of Mr. Chavez's top aides, also targeted cable providers, warning that the government would seize them if they interfere with broadcasts by state-run news channels. Mr. Cabello accused some of the cable systems of boycotting the state news network and Telesur, a regional news channel financed by Venezuela.

"The national government, through the ministry, will take over these companies" if the broadcasts by these channels are interrupted, Mr. Cabello said. Telesur has become a key public and foreign relations tool for Mr. Chavez: the state-run news channel broadcasts throughout the region with a decisive leftist tilt.

The government will also take off the air 154 FM radio stations for failing to submit the required paperwork to keep the broadcasting licenses up to date.

Mr. Cabello's plans to "democratize" the airwaves involve turning over the frequencies to community groups that back Mr. Chavez.

A trade group representing the broadcasting industry said that taking the stations off of the air was "an extreme and disproportionate" response to any bureaucratic problems they may be facing with the regulatory body. They labeled the measure as a "direct attack on freedom of expression."

Another media outlet that is being targeted by the government is the Globovision news channel, the last television network over public airwaves that is still openly critical of the government.

The Chavez administration accuses Globovision of "media terrorism," and is mounting a legal offensive against the network to revoke its license before it expires in 2015.

"The country can't tolerate that channel any longer," Mr. Chavez said recently during a nationwide broadcast. "It's a matter of public health," he explained. "That channel poisons the mind."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124717745352519889.html

I don't like the source, but I see little personal opinion expressed in the travesty of what Chavez did. I cannot believe that you would justify this.

[polly7]

218. Read it.

All of it.

Believe what you like. I know what happened, your insults and name-calling don't change history.

[HughMoran]

223. The article had no insults or name-calling - only facts which you did not refute

Not sure where to go from here :shrug:

[polly7]

226. Who said the article had insults and name-calling?

Go take care of yourself, you said I was making you incontinent.

[HughMoran]

228. Guess you give up then

Don't get mad at me for pointing out the holes in your arguments.

[polly7]

231. Ok ......... here's a teeny little medal. No, I don't feel like

wasting time with someone who hates Chavez, the 'dictator', who has attacked no-one, survived a coup aided by his own media and helped millions of his own people using their own resources (not stolen ones, mind you) with petty little things like poverty, homelessness, illiteracy.

You win!

Yawn.

[Judi Lynn]

221. Concerning RCTV, discussed at DU in depth, here's a helpful article.

Media Advisory

Coup Co-Conspirators as Free-Speech Martyrs
Distorting the Venezuelan media story

5/25/07

~snip~
On April 11, 2002, the day of the coup, when military and civilian opposition leaders held press conferences calling for Chávez's ouster, RCTV hosted top coup plotter Carlos Ortega, who rallied demonstrators to the march on the presidential palace. On the same day, after the anti-democratic overthrow appeared to have succeeded, another coup leader, Vice-Admiral Victor Ramírez Pérez, told a Venevisión reporter (4/11/02): "We had a deadly weapon: the media. And now that I have the opportunity, let me congratulate you."

That commercial TV outlets including RCTV participated in the coup is not at question; even mainstream outlets have acknowledged as much. As reporter Juan Forero, Jackson Diehl's colleague at the Washington Post, explained (1/18/07), "RCTV, like three other major private television stations, encouraged the protests," resulting in the coup, "and, once Chávez was ousted, cheered his removal." The conservative British newspaper the Financial Times reported (5/21/07), " officials argue with some justification that RCTV actively supported the 2002 coup attempt against Mr. Chávez."

As FAIR's magazine Extra! argued last November, "Were a similar event to happen in the U.S., and TV journalists and executives were caught conspiring with coup plotters, it’s doubtful they would stay out of jail, let alone be allowed to continue to run television stations, as they have in Venezuela."

When Chávez returned to power the commercial stations refused to cover the news, airing instead entertainment programs—in RCTV's case, the American film Pretty Woman. By refusing to cover such a newsworthy story, the stations abandoned the public interest and violated the public trust that is seen in Venezuela (and in the U.S.) as a requirement for operating on the public airwaves. Regarding RCTV's refusal to cover the return of Chávez to power, Columbia University professor and former NPR editor John Dinges told Marketplace (5/8/07):

What RCTV did simply can't be justified under any stretch of journalistic principles…. When a television channel simply fails to report, simply goes off the air during a period of national crisis, not because they're forced to, but simply because they don't agree with what's happening, you've lost your ability to defend what you do on journalistic principles.

The Venezuelan government is basing its denial of license on RCTV's involvement in the 2002 coup, not on the station's criticisms of or political opposition to the government. Many American pundits and some human rights spokespersons have confused the issue by claiming the action is based merely on political differences, failing to note that Venezuela's media, including its commercial broadcasters, are still among the most vigorously dissident on the planet.

More:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3107

[HughMoran]

225. What about all the other stations and the broad actions taken to squelch opposing viewpoints??

Please tell me you can differentiate between one possible violator and his broad attack on any opposing media - the sign of a paranoid dictator IMO.

[polly7]

233. Thank you.

Yes, it has been posted for years.

[laughingliberal]

358. "the stations abandoned the public interest and violated the public trust that is seen in Venezuela

(and in the U.S.) as a requirement for operating on the public airwaves." There was a time, here, when broadcasters were held more stringently to this standard. Over the years the definition of 'public interest' and 'public trust' has been pretty watered down.

[Judi Lynn]

234. Not too many sensible adults accept Rupert Murdoch's WSJ as a political authority.

Here's an article on RCTV's return to broadcasting:

Opposition TV network to resume broadcasting in Venezuela
22 de febrero de 2010
Ampliar fotografía Caracas, Feb 22 (EFE).- Radio Caracas Television, which has an editorial slant opposed to President Hugo Chavez, announced Monday that it reached a solution to the conflict with regulators that forced RCTV off the country's cable systems last month.

The president of parent company Empresas 1BC, Marcel Granier, told a press conference that the firm has presented on Monday to the Conatel regulatory panel the documentation required for it to get back "on the air."

Venezuelan cable systems dropped RCTV Internacional and five other stations from lineups late last month in a dispute over which rules applied to the outlets.

Conatel distinguishes between "national" and "international" channels based on the source of content. RCTVI maintained that as an international channel, it was not subject to regulations requiring national outlets to transmit official addresses whenever the president demands.
But Conatel said RCTV Internacional did not qualify as an international channel because more than 70 percent of its programming was produced in Venezuela.

More:
http://www.laprensasa.com/2.0/3/309/596192/America-in-English/Opposition-TV-network-to-resume-broadcasting-in-Venezuela.html

~~~~~
Do you have anything direct to post on those radio stations you believe Hugo Chavez has seized, "taken over," or otherwise reamed?

[HughMoran]

236. Still attacking the source which was simply a statement of what was happening?

If you can't refute the article I've already posted and want to simply attack the source using tried and true arguments directly off the list of fallacious arguments, then there is no having a discussion with you, is there?

[Judi Lynn]

241. Your Murdoch article didn't cover news of an event which happened. It was opinion, speculation.

I posted an article which indicated RCTV has RETURNED to broadcasting.

Do you have any actual information on all those "other" stations you claim Hugo Chavez has taken over? Would like to know more about that.

By the way, you owe it to yourself to actually READ the material people post in response to your own remarks, you really could use the information. You need it.

[HughMoran]

244. CBS News (8-2-2009) "Chavez Closes 34 Radio Stations"

AP) Some 200 Venezuelans gathered outside a Caracas broadcaster Saturday to protest a decision by President Hugo Chavez's government to revoke the licenses of 34 radio stations.

The demonstration occurred outside CNB 102.3 FM, which cut its over-the-air transmission Saturday morning on orders from the telecommunications regulatory agency and is now transmitting only over the Internet.

Station director Zaira Belfort said CNB planned to appeal the order, but she warned that the shutdown decision is likely "only the beginning of the closures of free media in Venezuela."

"This is a government attack," she said. "We want to keep living in democracy, and once again they've silenced us."

Chavez said Saturday that he approved the telecommunications agency's decision to shut down radio stations ruled to be operating illegally.

"We're applauding Diosdado for the decision he has made to take back these stations for the people," Chavez said, referring to agency chief Diosdado Cabello.

Chavez said previously that the revoked licenses could be given to broadcasters who share his socialist vision.

...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/02/world/main520...

[sabrina 1]

323. That paper is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Do you not recognize

propaganda when you see it? Murdoch, who bought the WSJ, the biggest rightwing propagandist in the world. Of course he hates Chavez, who is everything he isn't ~ a person who actually does care about justice and about equality for all people.

Sheesh, the level of ignorance in these threads, on a PROGRESSIVE board where everyone should recognize that the owner of Fox News is simply not a reliable source, is just beyond belief sometimes.

[Judi Lynn]

You need to have studied the material the conscientious DU'ers covered long ago, years ago.

You need to know what you're talking about first.

It's not for the US American right-wing to continue trying to control Latin America. That's a grotesque, twisted, primitive, and perverse starting place in discussing US/Latin America relations.

Could you post a link concerning these radio stations Hugo Chavez took over?

[HughMoran]

222. I did - read it above

Can't miss it - it's right above...

[polly7]

251. Scary.

http://upsidedownworld.org/main/venezuela-archives-35/2059--media-in-venezuela-facts-and-fiction

"Print media in Venezuela is diverse, but it depicts a greater opposition presence than seen in television networks. Many publications are corporate-owned and extremely critical of the Chávez administration. In comparison to the United States, where New York, the largest city, has only four daily papers (New York Times, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Daily News), two of which are markedly sympathetic to the Bush administration, Caracas, the capital of Venezuela, has twenty-one daily papers. Whereas the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Washington Post are the only nationally distributed daily papers in the United States, Venezuela circulates eight daily papers nationally. A Washington D.C. based think-tank Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) has described the print media situation in simple terms: "nine out of ten newspapers, including El Nacional and El Universal, are staunchly anti-Chávez." 7"


....much more including the media role in the attempted coup.

[polly7]

252. dupe

[sabrina 1]

190. Is it okay for a radio station to advocate the overthrow

of an elected government? Because here in the U.S. if any radio station were being used for the overthrow of the government, they would lose more than their license. They would be charged with treason and possibly get the death penalty. Particularly if one of those running the station had already participated in a previous attempted coup d'etat.

Tell me you are not going to defend the airwaves in a democracy being used for such a purpose. And I have to say, Venezuela, Chavez, has been pretty lenient with them, considering their crime.

[polly7]

194. A+

Good for you. Thanks for some common sense.

[EFerrari]

209. It's okay in Venezuela. Just like in Honduras it was okay for the couup to torture reporters.

It's all a matter of perspective. :sarcasm:

[sabrina 1]

235. But, Hillary said it has all been handled without

anyone being hurt?? Lol, I know what you're saying.

I also thought her statement was revealing, if she was quoted accurately. 'All been handled' ~ so they did handle it and came down in favor of the coupers. It's an outrage really how this government, and now the Democrats, are doing everything they can to stop S. and Central American countries from determining their own destinies. We should be cheering for and encouraging countries like Venezuela. It's heart-breaking to see the Obama administration simply continue the criminal policies ...

[laughingliberal]

329. Yes, I think even the first amendment here does not protect sedition.

Calling for the overthrow of a legitimate, democratically elected government is not legal here or in Venezuela. This is the reason for the birther movement here. In order to call for the overthrow of Obama's administration, they must first try to prove he is not the legitimate president. The same types are fueling the opposition to Chavez in Venezuela-astroturf ruling class elites who are pissed they are losing their grip on all the country's wealth and resources.

I'm not sure why a Democratic population fails to see that.

[laughingliberal]

356. Fux would be shut down if they outright called for the violent overthrow of the gov't here

Which is why they dance around it and do not ever come right out and say it. Sedition is not protected speech here and it isn't in Venezuela, either. But we should not let that get in the way of corporate controlled MSM propaganda.

[Warren Stupidity]

369. Were we supposed to be horrified at his opinion of the lack of difference

in LA policy between Bush and Obama? If so why?

[laughingliberal]

401. Oh, obviously by a clumsily worded statement

Why would anyone be horrified about the continuation of the Right Wing policies towards Latin America under a Democratic president? Those were only wrong when a Republican was in charge.

[Warren Stupidity]

412. It isn't even clumsily worded.

I don't think south americans are as phobic as we are in describing the race of people when discussing their differences. Almost everyone is a mix of something. The translation of 'blanco' as 'blonde' was either stupid or deliberate.

[scarletwoman]

419. I think it's rather elegantly and succinctly worded.

"White Condeleeza" skillfully conveys a complete, salient truth.

sw

[omega minimo]

139. Macho sucks dick

[JVS]

142. Oh the Poutrage from the Chavez-haters.

[CreekDog]

145. Chavez has been watching too many movies

[HuckleB]

157. He has jumped the shark far too many times.

He could have been a great force for good, but he couldn't hold back his immature ego.

[CreekDog]

215. George Carlin?

:evilgrin:

[yurbud]

160. If Obama was really turning to diplomacy, Clinton would ask why South America wants to exclude us.

[Blue-Jay]

162. This is an odd thread.

Agree with Chavez, and you get attacked.
Disagree with Chavez, and you get attacked.

DU is an odd place.

As always, the truth is somewhere in-between: Chavez is an OK guy who has been a good leader for his people. Then again, he sometimes says inflammatory shit to shore up national support, and yes, to get attention. No, he's not completely right or completely wrong, but a few of you should back up from your usual black/white thinking and try to wrap your head around the fact that no-fucking-body deserves your complete agreement.

Chavez says weird shit all the time. I think he does it on purpose. Now, that doesn't mean that I totally disagree with ALL of his decisions. I'm allowed to do that, eh?

[scarletwoman]

167. The truth is exactly what Chavez spoke regarding Clinton.

There's been no change in U.S. policy toward Latin America. Chavez' comment was merely an observation of this fact.

This really has nothing to do with Chavez, it has solely to do with what the U.S. government has done and continues to do, which is to prop up right wing governments and encourage the destablization of governments who don't bow to exploitation by the wealthy elites.

sw

[HughMoran]

173. Yes, it is true that Hillary is 'white' and Condoleeza is 'not white'

Gotta love it!

[Warren Stupidity]

371. No it is true that there is no difference in US policy on LA

between Bush and Obama (and in fact no change going back to Reagan.)

[EFerrari]

202. Chavez is the thermometer. But it's easier to make it about him

than to ask our government why they are supporting a murderous coup in Honduras, more murderers in Colombia and Peru and funding the virulent right wing in democracies like Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador.

No -- let's call Chavez names! He burned a hole in the rug! He drank out of the milk carton!

[scarletwoman]

210. I notice that none of the anti-Chavez posters in this thread has made one peep about

U.S. policies in Latin America. They'd rather keep the discussion about Chavez' supposed "sexism" or "racism" than address the actual substance of the policies for which Clinton is merely the latest apologist.

As I said in another post, the heart of the matter is that Latin America is seeing the same old shit -- the fact that it's packaged behind a different face doesn't change the contents.

sw

[EFerrari]

214. Yeppers. No response to the actual issue.

It's a shame. This policy will not only cause suffering far away, it will cause suffering here.

[scarletwoman]

249. These days I'm feeling like we here in the U.S. are pretty much doomed.

I so want Latin America to succeed in freeing itself from the malevolent forces that are destroying us here.

[laughingliberal]

418. Well, the purpose of strawmen is to distract from an issue you can not defend.

Look! Over there!

[seeinfweggos]

267. thermometer of crazy nt

[rabs]

170. Good observations

Most of this thread has hinged on one word, "blond." But Reuters mistranslated intentionally or maybe not, because Chavez did not utter that word. He said "blanca" (white).

Then the focus on the thread went to racism, but anyone who has lived in South America knows that to describe someone's skin color is not necessarily racist.

For example, in Argentina, husbands call their wives or daughters "negra" or "negrita" if they happens to have dark hair or a slightly darker skin color. In Bolivia, women are called "chinas" if they have Asian-looking features.

What was lost in the discussions was that Hillary went to Brasilia this week, and while there, she criticized Chavez in interviews with Brazilian media.

That was what set Chavez off.

Also, many people forget that Chavez is a "milico" by training. I lived and worked in South America for nearly 20 years under several dictatorships and discovered that "milicos" universally have tunnel vision, black and white vision. They are NOT statesmen.

So while Chavez is no diplomat by any stretch, in his spouting off he often says the truth, which grated the Condi crowd and now the Clinton crowd.

[Blue-Jay]

181. Chavez has good reason to be distrustful of our government officials.

We all know why, and we probably have no reason to get into a big discussion about that. (Maybe in another thread.)

I understand what "set Chavez off". I also know that comparing Hillary to Condoleeza is not very accurate. Certainly, Chavez is still pissed off at the USA government. (I can't blame him for that)

However, Obama is not the same person as Bush, and Clinton is not the same person as Rice. I "get" where he's coming from.

[EFerrari]

197. The policy decisions have been identical as far as I can see.

What am I missing - and that's a real question, not a dare.

[ProSense]

185. The formula matters.

Agree with Chavez (when he criticizes Hillary), and you get attacked.
Disagree with Chavez (when he criticize Obama), and you get attacked.

It's pretty simple. If this thread was a criticism of President Obama, it would be on the front page.

[EFerrari]

195. The same cr@p used against Obama and funded by the same people.

Dictator, socialist, uppity, yada yada yada. And DU eats up both with a spoon. Or, maybe that's not fair. Crowds do. It's a mob thing to just react to media bs.

[EFerrari]

191. Being in complete agreement with Chavez on this point

is not necessarily a result of black and white thinking. For me, it is the result of 14 months of observation. Actually, longer than that.

Reducing that to the slogan "black/white thinking" is simply inaccurate although I guess it may be easier to deal with that way. And I'll decide who deserves what from me, thanks.

[HughMoran]

193. Chavez was, ironically, using 'black' and 'white' thinking

By emphasizing that Hillary was a 'white' Condoleeza. :crazy:

[leftstreet]

211. It's only odd that everyone made it about Chavez and not Clinton

...and US foreign policy.

Well, not odd for DU I guess

I remember the DU Chavez Solidarity Dances whenever Hugo would refer to Bush as "Mr. Danger"

[laughingliberal]

306. The bottom line here is he was democratically elected by the people of his country

and reelected by them in elections which have been found to be fair and open. The forces that promote the anti-Chavez rhetoric want nothing less than the overthrow of a democratically elected leader of a sovreign nation. Why is it our business? Oh, yeah. Venezuela has oil.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

365. This is the correct answer.

And his off-color quips amuse me in a South Park kind of way.

You know, he could have just declared that US foreign policy has essentially remained the same under Obama, and it'd just another boring, forgettable foreign politician quote that everybody would forget 10 seconds after reading.

No, instead he decides to say the exact same thing, only in the most offensive way he can think of. I can't help but like it. It's a guilty pleasure. Then again, I'm a twisted person who likes dead baby comedy.

[Lyric]

219. Lyric mocks Chavez as an increasingly irrelevant blowhard.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

220. Yes, that's why Hillary attacks him. Because he is of no consequence.

And, afaik, that hasn't been brought up in this thread. This is actually a response to yet another slander of Venezuela's democracy by Clinton on Thursday, iirc. Amy reported it. Clinton looked a little silly, to say the least. But, I guess it's her job to attack Venezuela because the US is competing for influence in Latin America right now. And, losing, too.

[polly7]

240. Latin America's path to independence

Latin America's path to independence

With the creation of a new regional organisation, Latin America is emerging as a power bloc with its own interests and agenda

Mark Weisbrot guardian.co.uk,

Thursday 25 February 2010 19.10 GMT Article history

Latin America took another historic step forward this week with the creation of a new regional organisation of 32 Latin American and Caribbean countries. The United States and Canada were excluded.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/feb/25/latin-america-independence


http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/golinger.shtml

Her main topics of discussion and presentation include:
•US Intervention in Venezuela
•The Bush Administration's Role in the 2002 coup d'etat against President Chavez
•The National Endowment for Democracy and a tool of undermining democracies around the world (How US Taxpayer Dollars are used for Regime Change)
•Media Manipulation and Psychological Warfare
•CIA penetration and actions in Venezuela
•How to use the Freedom of Information Act to Uncover and Denounce US Aggression and Illegal Activities
•The Venezuela Revolution and Social Transformation
•The New Venezuelan Constitution

[Lyric]

253. When you can predict every word that comes out of his blustering little mouth?

Yeah. He's irrelevant. It's hard to take him seriously as a world leader when he bases everything he does on Evil Imperialists this and Oppressive Americans that. Yes Hugo, we know, America is the cause of all woes, the eeeeevil imperialist empire, blah blah blah. He's a one-trick pony that jumped the shark a long time ago.

We usually agree on a lot of things, but not so much on this one. I might as well just give up the argument, because I have zero intention of wasting any more energy on Chavez. He's just not important enough to me to be worth the effort, and he seems to mean a great deal to you, personally.

[EFerrari]

284. Yes, Latin American independence does mean a lot to me, personally.

Both of my grandparents spent most of their lives working for it. It's funny the way that history, which isn't history because it isn't even past yet, is so easily dismissed as blah blah blah. Astonishing, really. Have a good night.

[seeinfweggos]

317. you equate chavez with LA? that's astonishing

also astonishing is that based on you grandparent theory i know what most people on the eurasian landmass are thinking right now.

[EFerrari]

321. I'm so happy I don't teach reading & comp any more. Thanks for that insight.

I owe you.

LOL

:rofl:

[laughingliberal]

307. "the US is competing for influence in Latin America right now. And, losing, too."

So, you're saying they haven't welcomed us as liberators?

[EFerrari]

310. As Fisk says about Iraq, "they want to be free -- from us!"

lol

[laughingliberal]

324. Indeed. nt

[EFerrari]

327. There are so many interesting things happening in South America

and they have nothing to do with these bits of huffpuffery. Lula's term in Brazil will be ending soon and it may be that he will back a woman in the next election for that office. Meanwhile, both Clintons have been angling for years for the Colombian FTA and Uribe is losing steam fast, making that FTA less likely.

When the rhetoric heats up and these stories are more frequent (and when we get an influx of new posters who dislike the "dictator"), my assumption is that something sizable is going on behind the scenes.

Hillary can't have liked that Lula announced he would not agree with her before she actually got to Brazil. That was hardball on Lula's part and not in his usual gentler style. This trip has not gone well for her.

[laughingliberal]

331. I can only assume when the MSM here is going after anyone this hard

they have truly upset the elite. I don't understand how those who perfectly well know our MSM is always working for the powerful corporate interests can think, "except about Chavez" and believe we are getting the truth here. It makes as much sense as people in other countries thinking Fox news is the objective source for information on Obama.

[inna]

245. Rec'd. Crappy OP, great thread. :)

[Happy Hippy]

274. I concur.

To hell with Chavez.

[laughingliberal]

308. +1 nt

[Judi Lynn]

334. You are so right. It's a pathetic OP which smells a mile away. Fine comments. It's an education. n/t

[saltpoint]

255. Likely done to see if he could get her to publicly react.

If he taunted her like this in private she'd probably deck his ass on the spot, and I wouldn't blame her.

[Wilms]

271. I think he does it to see how many replies a DU thread about it will have. n/t

[saltpoint]

273. That's got to be it. I just KNEW Hugo was lurking among us.

[Name removed]

275. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

276. Could be. But I for one can't tell the difference between

socialist oil and capitalist oil.

Maybe I'll improve over time.

[Happy Hippy]

279. For once...

This isn't about Oil - it's about the Chavez regime and the damage he his doing to the Venezuelan economy, while American "progressives" cheerlead the kook's policies at the peril of the Venezuelan people.

[saltpoint]

282. Chavez is not about oil? You can love him or hate him -- it makes

no nevermind to me nohow.

But he is on the geopolitical radar because his nation is an oil nation.

Unfortunately, only a very very slim percentage of U.S. citizens care about the people who comprise the culture identity in Chavez's country.

[Happy Hippy]

283. I agree!

I'm just saying this is about his comments and other recent kookery.

[saltpoint]

285. Re kookery, it really does not seem to me terribly prudent for any

U.S. politician to assail Chavez on "kookery," after the dim-witted Ronald Reagan, the nefarious Bush duo, and reaching back a ways, Richard Nixon and his alleged late-night alcoholic stupors. One witness claimed that it was not unusual for Nixon, some many months into the Watergate investigation, to be drunker than a boiled owl crawling around the Oval Office on all fours mumbling epithets.

As world leaders go, Chavez presides over a complex and often beautiful culture. He has what Hemingway referred to as a "built-in bullshit detector," and he frequently calls US. politicians on their more flagrant violations of political consistency and common decency.

[Happy Hippy]

287. Come on Saltpoint.

America does it too, is not an excuse.

When did two wrongs ever make a right? My point in all this is that American Democrats / progressives can find a better role model than Hugo Chavez....if that makes sense.

[saltpoint]

290. Whoops. Be careful not to imagine that I endorse kookery.

Whether here or abroad. Whether Stateside or in Siam or Kenya, where our president was born. No wait, scratch that, he was born in Hawaii, which is at LEAST as exotic as Kenya, according to Kookie, I mean COKIE, Roberts.

I don't believe there are reliable statistics which delineate whole-hog support among U.S. progressives for any one international figure.

Were the matter left to me I'd choose home-grown Amy Goodman. I always did love her.

[laughingliberal]

325. The damage Chavez is doing to the Venezuelan economy is to the elites

who are pissed that they are no longer controlling all of the country's wealth. The oil corporations are a tad pissed off that he has demanded that revenue from Venezuela's oil benefit the people of Venezuela and not just the oil companies. Sure glad we don't have anyone like that around here.

The opposition to Chavez in Venezuela is analogous to our teabaggers. It's an astroturf movement of the wealthy who want their ruling status back.

[EFerrari]

328. An astroturf that we pay for out of our pockets, too, via USAID.

They get us coming and going AND still manage to get some people to agree to their own fleecing. Amazing.

[laughingliberal]

330. Yes, and we're alleged to be the intelligent party, here.

God help us when Democrats can't even see through this.

[Name removed]

277. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

286. No, this was a response to something she said on Thursday in Brazil.

But that's the way we get the news up here, out of context and slanted.

[saltpoint]

288. Chavez presents a perfect paradox. He dips into the vat of

regional / cultural machismo, ("...an attitude I do not generally admire," Joan Didion writes) and at the same time casts himself as champion of the voiceless people south of the U.S. border who are unaffiliated with transglobal corporations.

It's a tough thing to do to navigate both components in public but he seems to do it pretty well, at least he seems to from my faraway perch.

Happy spring to ya, EFerrari.

[EFerrari]

293. I don't even know why he is still above ground with that mouth.

Seriously.

lol

[saltpoint]

294. He can really bring it when he wants to, yes. Shy he ain't.

But many U.S. Americans "fear" those kind of folks when they are darker-skinned while hooting and yelping approval when one of our right-wing kooks does it on Hate Radio or at say, the Republican National Convention in St. Paul.

Chavez, as complex as he certainly is, is less the issue than the U.S.'s unwillingness to admit that it can learn from other countries and cultures.

[EFerrari]

299. Chavez is the bad cop; Lula is the good cop. And I've yet to see them

have a serious disagreement. So Chavez gets all the really ugly press and Lula smiles quietly a lot. It's going to be sad to see Lula go. He was a good leader and a genuinely nice person.

[bridgit]

338. Chavez seems to have 'cabin fever', he needs to bust out and be more free

[Ken Burch]

343. Well, she does basically agree with Condi's worldview.

And she combines this mistake with the delusional notion that the use of American force can be progressive.

Why anyone who grew up watching the Vietnam War would ever believe that is a bonafide mystery.

[Warren Stupidity]

372. A point that appears to elude many posting here.

[Moochy]

382. Filed under policies that are OKIADDI

OK IF A DEMOCRAT DOES IT.

GO TEAM EMPIRE! GO TEAM PROPAGANDA! GO TEAM IGNORANT AMERICAN!

[Greyhound]

464. Check her background, see saw Vietnam through heavy filters from a great distance. n/t

[defendandprotect]

361. Sadly true . . . especially last week's warmongering re Iran . . . !!!

Same ole, same ole --

[Moochy]

377. RAWR lets defend our team vs. his team RAWR

whatever.

Our 'Iron Lady' Clinton is mas macho than Chavez! USA USA USA!!!! :patriot:

[bridgit]

387. The Ad-Word should be *Blondoleezza*, more to the point containing more sniglet by volume

http://www.alphadictionary.com/fun/sniglets.html

If Hugo is going to be routinely diverting attention from the viciously predatory drug cartels all around him, the Amazon de-foresters that speak with his backside as he faces only north, etc, (which of course he does) the societal maladies that befall not just Blondoleeza but the world, etc, etc - then its best to start speaking in sniglets no bigger than a hairball resistant after dinner mint more to the point, time released, and oh so wafer thin

[slackmaster]

417. That would be a good name for a band!

Blondoleeza!

[Ken Burch]

467. And that band could start it's own rock festival-

BLONDALEEZAPALOOZA!

[scarletwoman]

469. Or a rock festival with ice cream: BLONDALEEZALOLLAPALOOZA!

[leftstreet]

460. IBTL

:popcorn:

[Ken Burch]

470. At this point, the mods are probably past caring...

n/t.

[upi402]

463. the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-Twain

[yurbud]

475. the truth hurts.

[Spirochete]

490. Too long and hard to say

should be shortened to Blondoleeza.

[howard112211]

501. I like to post in Chavez threads.

[Ter]

506. Chavez acts so tough

But he would never hold up in a street fight with someone even semi-tough.