Home school, Evolution and kids in college

[liberal N proud]

Here is what happens to home schooled kids when they get to college:

Top home-school texts dismiss Darwin
One book's lesson: ‘Christian worldview ... is the only correct view of reality’

LOUISVILLE, Ky. - Home-school mom Susan Mule wishes she hadn't taken a friend's advice and tried a textbook from a popular Christian publisher for her 10-year-old's biology lessons.

Mule's precocious daughter Elizabeth excels at science and has been studying tarantulas since she was 5. But she watched Elizabeth's excitement turn to confusion when they reached the evolution section of the book from Apologia Educational Ministries, which disputed Charles Darwin's theory.

"I thought she was going to have a coronary," Mule said of her daughter, who is now 16 and taking college courses in Houston. "She's like, 'This is not true!'"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35740950/ns/us_news-education/

[stopbush]

1. It's amazing and sad at the same time.

Religion just can't handle REALITY, can it?

[MineralMan]

6. They know they're wrong, but they can't handle it.

If they're wrong about that, what else are they wrong about? It scares the crap out of religionists. The stupid among them, and those who lead the stupid, have to pretend that they actually believe the fables. If they admit that they really don't, they lose everything.

The clever relgionists have discovered that they can easily enough accept evolution and that sort of thing with the allegory argument. That works for smart people, so they can continue on being religionists without conflict.

It is the stupid religionists who are angry and trying to insist that we all must accept the same stupid arguments they accept.

It's getting worse. Now they're carrying guns around Amarillo.

[depakid]

2. Even more to the point:

An anatomy professor in a Midwest college recounts that every year, in his first class session, he points to two skeletons, a male and a female, in the front of the classroom. He then asks whether any of the students can describe the differences in the two skeletons.

Almost invariably, a hand or two shoots up with the answer that the male skeleton has less ribs (i.e., in Genesis, Eve was created from Adam's rib).

Depending on how certain the student is of this, the professor counts the ribs- and sure enough, there are twelve pairs on each skeleton. This demonstration isn't always convincing- some students believe the model skeletons are purposefully inaccurate and on occasion some have been known to complain to the administration about unfair and bias instruction!

[alphafemale]

37. The "professor" and "college" part of that leapt out at me

So these aren't grade school or middle school kids. I'd think kids by that age would know better from CSI if nothing else.

I grew up in a church and with a mother who was "Fundamentally" crazy like that.

When I realized around the age of eight or so that practically ALL of the ADULTS at my church actually believed the the little fables like the Flood and that thing with Jonah had actually occurred?

I realized I was going to have to keep my mouth shut and fake it until I grew up and made tracks far away from there.

[LuckyLib]

3. "Apologia Educational Ministries" says it all. That crap is one example of the highly

fictionalized crap that passes for curriculum for Christian fundamentalists. The stupidity is just painful.

[jody]

4. Special case and not applicable to all children who are home-schooled. n/t

[Fumesucker]

5. Not all but a substantial percentage..

A great majority where I live..

[jody]

7. Please provide a source to support your assertion "substantial percentage". n/t

[Fumesucker]

9. Please provide a source to support your assertion "not applicable to all children".

[jody]

11. See link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling#International_status_and_statistics

[Fumesucker]

15. Your link supports my assertion, thanks..

Reason for homeschooling Number of
homeschooled students Percent s.e.
Can give child better education at home 415,000 48.9 3.79
Religious reason 327,000 38.4 4.44
Poor learning environment at school 218,000 25.6 3.44
Family reasons 143,000 16.8 2.79
To develop character/morality 128,000 15.1 3.39
Object to what school teaches 103,000 12.1 2.11
School does not challenge child 98,000 11.6 2.39
Other problems with available schools 76,000 9.0 2.40
Child has special needs/disability 69,000 8.2 1.89
Transportation/convenience 23,000 2.7 1.48
Child not old enough to enter school 15,000 1.8 1.13
Parent's career 12,000 1.5 0.80
Could not get into desired school 12,000 1.5 0.99
Other reasons* 189,000 22.2 2.90

[jody]

16. What stat supports parents home-school to avoid teaching evolution. n/t

[Fumesucker]

17. The one about religion, over half of Americans do not believe in evolution..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml

(CBS) Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.

[jody]

18. I'm familiar with that stat which applies to parents with children in both public & private schools.

Using you logic 51% of parents don't believe in evolution and the overwhelming number of them send their children to public schools where they will be taught evolution.

Something weird is going on but I'm sure you can explain it.

[Fumesucker]

21. Those who are really adamant about it homeschool..

Or send their kids to private "Christian Academies", of which there is a plethora in my area.

[jody]

27. Assuming you live in the Atlanta area, I have friends and relatives who live in GA some of whom

home schooled their children. A couple of them are evangelical Christian but all the others did not like the quality of public schools.

The experience of my friends may or may not represent the home school group.

[Lyric]

23. Not all parents are capable of homeschooling.

Some states have requirements that at least one parent possess a high school diploma or college degree in order to homeschool, and denial of permission to homeschool is always a possibility in some areas. Not all people who WANT to homeschool are automatically allowed to do so--at least not in every state. In many places, you have to present a curriculum, get it approved by the school board, and submit regular progress reports, attendance records, and test scores. If you can't do that, they can deny you permission to homeschool.

Don't assume that all parents who wish to homeschool ARE homeschooling.

[jody]

25. Please read my posts carefully because I made no assumption. n/t

[Lyric]

30. Sure you did.

You assumed that there was something "funny" going on because there are more people who claim they don't believe in evolution than there are people homeschooling their kids. The implication is that if evolution was REALLY the problem, those numbers would match up more closely. I was simply supplying you with some information you seemed to have...overlooked.

:)

[jody]

32. Thanks for providing humor. Have a great day and goodbye. n/t

[Dappleganger]

26. Are you a homeschooling parent?

Don't you think that homeschooling families know just a tad more about what kind of families are doing this?

[jody]

28. No but three families on my block, all close friends, home school and none of them reject evolution.

[mzteris]

8. +1

third thread on this I've seen. At least this one started about religion being stupid instead of all hs'ers!!

SIGH - the ignorance as pertains to homeschooling on DU is appalling!

[Maat]

33. Yes, the ignorance is appalling.

I don't let myself get upset about anymore, though. Homeschooling and homestudy programs are here to stay. Our teen artist just does not march to the conventional clasroom drummer. Our program allows my daughter to spend substantial time learning classical art from an extremely-qualified private teacher. I've been so happy to see her succeed and blossom these past four years.

(1) Yes, her skill are up-to-date. In fact, they are beyond the typical ability of someone in her grade for most subjects. She's at grade-level in math.

(2) Yes, we use a typical curriculum, but there is plenty of time for an unschooling-type of approach at certain times.

(3) Yes, we meet with a credentialed teacher regularly, who makes sure that adequate improvement is occurring.

(4) Yes, we covered evolution. In fact, my daughter studied evolution, Darwinism, natural selection and the history of human development, as a species, substantially more than the average kid.

(5) Yes, she gets in her socializing time. Yes, she's involved in group activities.

No, we don't cover religion during class time, except as objective knowledge as directed by the state (they want students to know the basics about Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, and Islam, among others.

Gawd, I get so tired of attempting to correct the myths.

Yes, we go through a charter organized and run through a school district. Our school has the typical number of students, and is not costing any more money to run than any other school.

[jody]

38. Your story is common among home schoolers I've met. n/t

[liberal N proud]

19. ..

[jody]

24. Perhaps you are correct but I've grown so distrustful of news articles with a hidden agenda.

I have friends who are evangelical Christians that home school so creationism and other christian dogma can be taught.

I have many more friends who home school because the quality of public schools are so very poor.

I also know young men and women from both groups who have earned scholarships to universities and graduated in the top quarter of their class with degrees in math and science.

IMO it's not fair to condemn all parents who home school just because some of them have particular religious beliefs.

[liberal N proud]

20. The article says top home school texts

That would indicate it is one of the most widely used.

[jody]

29. See #24 n/t

[Igel]

35. Conceivably.

But look at the claim closely: "Top home-school texts dismiss Darwin".

Then use your reading skills to pick from the following two options:

(a) This means, "of all texts used by home schoolers, it's one of the most widely used";
(b) This means "of all texts intended for home schooling, it's one of the most widely used;
(c) This means "of all texts intended for home schooling, it's used by a majority or nearly a majority of home schoolers"

You'd get (b) at a minimum. You can't say how large a share of the market it has, however.

(a) is possible, but not all home schoolers use materials intended for home schooling. Often enough they use materials intended for school use. I don't know of a survey that gets at this question.

(c) This is possible, but continues from (b). It makes a further assumption.

Another quibble is the use of the word "evangelical." Lots of denominations are evangelical, but the meaning of the word is a bit up for grabs. I don't know what the article means by the word.

In many surveys that look at why people homeschool, "religious or moral" instruction is undefined. Carole, I woman I worked with quite a while back, home schooled. She was atheist, pacificist, and rejected not the academic rigor of public and private schools but their moral foundation. Evangelical she wasn't, fundamentalist she wasn't--Xian she wasn't. Yet she had her two kids studying at home for "religious or moral" reasoning. Of that group, most are probably "Xian", but again--the survey doesn't say what people infer.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

10. "what happens to home schooled kids when they get to college?"

Hopefully they get drunk, stoned and fucked stupid and out from under their parents thumb.

[liberal N proud]

22. That would fix the abstinence only teaching as well.

[mzteris]

36. typically they outperform

traditionally schooled kids.

One of the reasons is that they are used to "studying on their own". Not being spoon-fed "facts" and asked to regurgitate them in a bubble-test. They are more responsible, more innovative, and usually more advanced.

Schools like Harvard and Stanford and other major Universities really LIKE homeschoolers as they're generally more mature and better equipped to cope with the demands of school.

[MineralMan]

12. Reasons people homeschool

Here's a survey. Link at the end:

Reasons for homeschooling Applicable1 Most important
Number Percent Number Percent
Concern about environment of other schools2 935,000 85.4 341,000 31.2
Dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools 748,000 68.2 180,000 16.5
To provide religious or moral instruction 793,000 72.3 327,000 29.8
Child has a physical or mental health problem 174,000 15.9 71,000 6.5
Child has other special needs 316,000 28.9 79,000 7.2
Other reasons3 221,000 20.1 97,000 8.8

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/TableDisplay.asp?TablePath=TablesHTML/table_4.asp

Since I note that 72% say that religious or moral instruction is one of the reasons, I think that's a very important number in this survey.

[jody]

14. Do you believe "72% say that religious or moral instruction" mean they reject evolution? n/t

[bluestateguy]

13. Tough shit.

Then they can go to Liberty U. or Bob Jones University if they require further validation of their fantasy worldview.

[earthside]

31. Here's what happens to public school kids ...

Nearly One in Three Colo. Graduates Needs Remedial Courses in College, Study Finds - Denver Post; Feb. 9, 2010

I blame NCLB, standardization and high stakes testing.

So, with the way Bush and Obama are pushing public/charter education, well, whose to cast stones?

[On the Road]

34. My Neice is 17 Years Old and Was Homeschooled for Religious Reasons

She scored a 1580 out of 1600 on her SATs, and could probably go Ivy League or MIT if she wanted.

But the problems in the article are very real. She would not fit into those programs. She'll probably end up going to a small religious college that will reinforce her beliefs.

I applaud my sister-in-law for educating her so effectively,, but I think it's a tragedy. She has no idea how much more limited her options will be.