Too Much Sex? No Such Thing -- Why Sex Addiction Is Total B.S.

[jaysunb]

The Brave New World of Sexual Addiction
By RAYMOND J. LAWRENCE

American befuddlement over matters of sex is on the increase, in spite of the fact that one can hardly imagine the subject becoming more befuddling to the people of this country than it already is.

Sex addiction is the latest star in America’s sexual burlesque. Sex addiction has of course been a malaprop from its first usage. Addiction was originally and properly defined as a physiological dependence on a substance to which the body had grown accustomed, such as alcohol, nicotine, heroin and various other drugs. The cure was to end the dependency and abstain from further use of the substance in order to avoid a recurrence of the physiological dependency. These treatments do work and many people have been cured of their addictions and never returned to the addictive substance.

Applying such a metaphor to sexual pleasure creates a misleading and ominous innuendo. Sex is not an addictive substance. It’s a human interaction on which the survival of the species is dependent. It is also possibly the most pleasurable and sought after activity known to humankind, and arguably an experience no one should be deprived of. Most normal people consider more rather than less sexual pleasure to be a major objective in life.

The very idea of sexual pleasure as a harmful addiction plays precisely into the hands of one of the most perverse aspects of Western religious history, namely the teaching that sex is a work of the devil redeemed only by the act of procreation itself. Reliance on the notion of sex addiction in counseling and psychiatric treatment is ominous.

So now according to the working version of the new DSM-5, psychiatrists will be able to assess whether one is having too much sex, or even whether one simply wants too much sex. Or too little. They will presumably have some kind of measuring rod to determine what is too much or too little.

http://counterpunch.com/lawrence03042010.html

[Happy Hippy]

1. Cool Story, Bro

[cliffordu]

2. I WANT that addiction.

I had all the other fucking addictions. Why can't I have one that makes me popular??

[jaysunb]

12. It's awful Bro,

I think I caught it Nam. :evilgrin:

[cliffordu]

14. I just caught the chronic masturbation version of that one.....

:rofl:

[jaysunb]

19. ROFL !

:rofl:

[DemoTex]

74. Wear glasses yet, cliffordu?

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

98. braille computer.

:smoke:

[Ikonoklast]

79. But you have had all the 'fucking addictions' already.

Isn't being a 'sex addict' a fucking addiction?







































:popcorn:

[cliffordu]

97. ...Only if you're doing it right.

Otherwise you're just Jerkin' the Gherkin'

[Boojatta]

3. "on which the survival of the species is dependent"

Yes, but some time in the future someone might invent techniques for artificial insemination of human beings.

[safeinOhio]

4. I'd hate to go cold turkey n/t

[petronius]

50. That's a rookie mistake - take the turkey out of the fridge a bit earlier

Or even pop it in the microwave for a few minutes (but not too long...)

[safeinOhio]

67. Oh no,

I was thinking of ex number 1. She was allergic to sunsets. Every time the sun went down, she got a headache.

[SpiralHawk]

5. Has the Pope weighed in on this?

He's really the expert, ain't he?

And how do Republicon Family Values figure into the Big Picture?

I am hoping Jerry Springer will enlighten us all on these crucial elements of the deebate...

[ck4829]

6. Addiction should be something that is done so much that it interferes with one's normal life

Just doing something "a lot" shouldn't be considered addiction.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Exactly. Good point.

I eat every day, but I am not addicted to food. There are those, however, who are addicted to food because it interferes with their life. Somebody having sex every day and masturbating two to five times a day would not necessarily indicate "addiction." (But, they should be studied! :)) When one has to duck out of a meeting to rub one out; pull to car over while driving to the store; has "1-900" numbers on speed dial, then we are getting into addiction territory.

[seleff]

39. Eating disorders are treated using addiction paradigms

My daughter developed anorexia as a 15 year old. After 5 hospitalizations over the time she was 15 to 19, the only program that succeeded in keeping her out of institutional care involved 5 and 1/2 months in a 12-step inpatient facility. Part of the program involved family therapy so I am pretty familiar with the addiction paradigm of obsessive compulsive behavior. For me there was my own aftercare in al-anon meetings for many months while my daughter was transitioning to independent life. She talks about abstinence from binge eating counting the days and months. Her behaviors showed many characteristics of addictive behavior. I know it sounds paradoxical to be "addicted" to food or addicted to restricting food. That's part of what makes eating disorders so insidious. I don't think it's rea;;y a matter of being addicted to food per se. Rather it is an addiction to a pattern of unhealthy and maladaptive responses to anxiety that manifests itself in dangerous behaviors. In that way I do think one can become addicted to very disruptive and dangerous patterns of sexual behavior. Patrick Carnes "Out of the Shadows" is recommended reading to anyone curious about "sexual addictions".

I might step in it a bit further to suggest that there are more than a few visitors to this website that suffer from addictive behaviors surrounding this website. I know that my wife worries that I might be one such person.

[dysfunctional press]

46. i am no fan of '12-step' programs.

anyone/anything that tells a person that they have to turn their lives over to a non-existent 'higher power' are just so much bullshite.

[digidigido]

76. Your Ignorance is showing. 12 Step programs do not tell anyone to do anything

If there is no "HIgher Power" then are you suggesting that you are responsible for
the earthquake in Chili? There are many powers more powerful then you. What you
choose to believe has resonance. Everyone believes in something. The lack of a
belief in something is Nihlism

[Hello_Kitty]

85. Some 12 steppers get so defensive when people point out the religiosity of their program.

Why is that? Why not just acknowledge that it IS religion-based and admit that it's not for everyone?

[jaysunb]

90. Amen ! n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

87. I wasted years of my life in 12 steps.

I tried desperately to follow the program but as I grew to realize that I'm a non-believer, it became more apparent that it was not acceptable. They tell you it's okay to be an atheist/agnostic but they expect you to have a conversion at some point.

Also, the "sponsor" thing is scary too. You are told to put some person in charge of your life and do everything they say. Supposedly, your Higher Power will lead you to the right person. There are no accidents, y'know. :eyes: I personally had some bad experiences with sponsors and saw others get manipulated and emotionally abused by theirs. Why would anyone think it's a good idea to completely entrust some stranger with (usually) no credentials in psychotherapy with your life decisions and emotional wellbeing?

[lapislzi]

144. Although 12-step programs help many

They are not for everyone. They tend to use a cookie-cutter approach when sometimes a more nuanced response is called for. This is mitigated somewhat by the intervention of "sponsors," chosen by the individual member, and with whom one is encouraged to develop a deep relationship. If people are deriving benefit from them, that's great. If you want to be helped, and you think it's helping, then that's all that matters. My opinion about invisible sky wizards is not germane here.

[Behind the Aegis]

57. I was referring to the title of the OP, which was a reference to the article posted.

I am well versed in disordered eating. I was trained in this area, but, perhaps more pertinent, I am personally familiar with it. I was bulimic for several years. I also still suffer from "weight" issues. It isn't being addicted to the food, but the need for or lack of it, which is what I referred to in my post. One can eat every day and not be addicted, but to be so pre-occupied by consumption or lack thereof is the issue. Of course, it isn't just "food," even drink is included. Anorexia is different from bulimia (I know you weren't claiming anything different, just making the point that disordered eating, is just that). Some anorexics are consumed by calories, consumption, and/or exercise. Bulimics are different. We eat because we know we have to do so, but once the act is completed, then it no longer serves a purpose. We obsesses about certain foods or drinks. We crave them, but are disgusted by them. Of course, bulimia and anorexia are just two types of disordered eating issues.

I was trying to say, and perhaps I didn't do it clearly, was that just because one 'consumes' much or often of something, doesn't mean it is an addiction. However, it doesn't mean an addiction isn't an issue. Though I no longer force myself to vomit, I still battle those issues. My body has to fight the urge to purge food. When I lost my job and didn't go out as much (I burn calories fast), I started to gain weight again. I still would eat (only once a day), but I would cry at my weight gain...how fat I am, but I can't stop eating. I can't quit. I stopped leaving the house. BUT, I still love to cook and eat, though limited. My addiction isn't to food, it is an anxiety. However, for others, the addiction is food. It is what makes them feel good, or safe, or grounded, or loved, or whatever.

To say "sexual addiction" is a myth is a load of bullshit, IMO. People can be addicted to many things, sex is just but one thing.

[Voice for Peace]

71. ... just one more, just one more link, then I'll go to sleep

just one more click, then I'magonna get back to work

[seabeyond]

72. i knew i was losing my wife. i knew i would lose my kids. i couldnt stop

google and see how many men are crying cause they lost their families because of that just one more....

but we can pretend there are really no downsides, repercussions

[kimmerspixelated]

117. To rub one out! ROFL!!!!

But, yes, that's the problem!

Or better- That's the rub!

[onpatrol98]

119. Hmm...I think that could be a problem...

Quote: "Somebody having sex every day AND masturbating two to five times a day would not necessarily indicate "addiction."

ummm...I don't know. Me thinks that is bordering on becoming an addiction. Two to five times a day??? I mean, wouldn't that cause some kind of problem. Like an inability to answer the telephone or the door...a perpetual smiling disorder or something. What about work? You couldn't function like that on a daily basis. Could you?

[Voice for Peace]

36. or being unable to control the urges when they interfere with things that matter to you.

I've only known one person who thought (or had been told) he had a sex addiction. He loved women, he loved sex, and he couldn't help it. Nothing wrong with that.

But his activities wounded his wife, who left him, with his kids, and it broke his heart. All that pleasure wasn't worth it. So he was in therapy, trying to quit.

[roguevalley]

41. I saw a show on this once and the people talked about a lack

of the ability to be intimate with another person, that they used sex to make that connection but that it was a futile enterprise.

[jaysunb]

43. This sounds very plausible

:thumbsup:

[dysfunctional press]

44. for some people, sex can do that.

but then...what's 'normal' for one person's life isn't necessarily so for someone else's

[Orsino]

68. Right. The amount isn't the point. n/t

[treestar]

100. If people were seeking help for it

Then the psychologists will naturally categorize it.

They must be seeing a lot of people. It's too easy to make a joke of it, probably, for whoever does not suffer from it.

[Fast Dude]

7. Unless your wife puts a golf club upside your head

just ask Tiger :rofl:

[sandnsea]

8. Gambling, speeding, shoplifting, shopping

There are all kinds of addictions, not just physical addictions.

[Codeine]

32. Those aren't addictions,

they are weaknesses. Elevating them to the status of a medical condition is ridiculous.

[sandnsea]

37. This is just a sad thread

Really makes me wonder what the heck kind of progressive posts on DU anyway.

Any addiction is 95% psychological and behavioral. Any alcohol or drug treatment center will tell you that.

[Skittles]

52. YOU KNOW IT SANDNSEA

lots of ignorant people here

[laughingliberal]

83. +1000 nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

88. couldn't agree more

also sad to note that most of the posts are the "hardee har har" or the "no way man, no such thing as too much sex" type and that those posters are mostly guys.

[dave29]

127. +100

thank you

[HuckleB]

140. Actually, via brain plasticity that psychology/behavior also has a strong physiological component.

[Blue_Tires]

147. so you're saying there is no psychological component

to compulsive shopping, stealing or (ESPECIALLY)gambling??

wow...

[Dogtown]

142. You forgot "praying", sandnsea.

Religion is America's fastest growing addiction.

[seabeyond]

143. actually i agree. when using religion as an outside source to fill a void within.

that is when it becomes damaging.

[rug]

9. The criteria for the proposed Hyposexual Disorder:

Hypersexual Disorder <14>

A. Over a period of at least six months, recurrent and intense sexual fantasies, sexual urges, and sexual behavior in association with four or more of the following five criteria:

(1) A great deal of time is consumed by sexual fantasies and urges, and by planning for and engaging in sexual behavior. <15>

(2) Repetitively engaging in these sexual fantasies, urges, and behavior in response to dysphoric mood states (e.g., anxiety, depression, boredom, irritability). <16>

(3) Repetitively engaging in sexual fantasies, urges, and behavior in response to stressful life events. <17>

(4) Repetitive but unsuccessful efforts to control or significantly reduce these sexual fantasies, urges, and behavior. <18>

(5) Repetitively engaging in sexual behavior while disregarding the risk for physical or emotional harm to self or others. <19>

B. There is clinically significant personal distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning associated with the frequency and intensity of these sexual fantasies, urges, and behavior. <20>

C. These sexual fantasies, urges, and behavior are not due to the direct physiological effect of an exogenous substance (e.g., a drug of abuse or a medication). <21>

Specify if: <22>

Masturbation

Pornography

Sexual Behavior With Consenting Adults

Cybersex

Telephone Sex

Strip Clubs

Other:

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=415

There goes the Lounge.

[jaysunb]

16. Do you think Medicare will cover the treatment costs ?

cause I think I have it. :evilgrin:

[Suji to Seoul]

21. Me too. . .cover my therapy sessions at the Bunny Ranch brothel outside Carson City, NV

[onpatrol98]

125. No worry...

Absolutely!

[flamingdem]

18. Sonny you'll wish you had all that when you're 70! nt

[jaysunb]

26. I've got 6 years to go

I'll let you know how things. :rofl: And if I recalled correctly, 20 years ago, somebody told I'd be cured by 60,,,,didn't happen. :)

[rug]

30. Ernest Borgnine Talks About Masturbation (at 91).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XpS-tUsdiE

[Taitertots]

33. Also known as male adolescence n/t

[Suji to Seoul]

10. I enjoy eating, does that make me a food addict

I look forward to sleep, does that make me a sleep addict

I'll be honest, something I overly enjoy taking a big shit. . .do I need therapy because I'm a shit-oholic?

on edit: made a mistake.

[laughingliberal]

84. Do you indulge these activities to the extent they interfere with other aspect of your life?

Your job, your relationships? your health? your emotional state? If not, then no, it doesn't make you an addict. If so, I'd take a look at it. But, then, this isn't the place to request a medical opinion.

[leftstreet]

11. Does it include masturbation?

[fujiyama]

139. I must be really immature

because that picture really made me laugh.

[no_hypocrisy]

15. If Tiger Woods was to resurrect his career, he had to claim to have had an addiction.

The American public expected an affirmative act of contrition. And he had to say he made a mistake and the mistake was so massive that it was involuntary.

It reminds me of DUI's between their arrest and court hearing. Their lawyers get them into AA ASAP so when they go in front of a judge, they can say truthfully and with a straight face that the defendant FINALLY realized that s/he had a serious problem and decided to address it head-on. And they hope the judge will be lenient when it's time to pass judgment.

[varkam]

64. Do you think that maybe, just maybe...

sometimes the noises of contrition are genuine, or do you believe everyone is running a scam?

[no_hypocrisy]

66. Could be both.

[alarimer]

102. No when it comes to celebrities behaving badly, the addiction or rehab ploy is a scam

It is just an attempt to do damage control in order to clean up their image and keep their careers.

It is so predictable. Some celebrity screws up (and it doesn't really matter what it is they have done) and the next thing you know they are headed for "rehab."

[tnlefty]

17. 'measuring rod' should not have been in this text!

:spank: :rofl:

[flvegan]

20. DAMMIT! You beat me to it.

:rofl:

[jaysunb]

24. Not nearly as bad as, Drill Baby, DRILL

What was that lady's name again ? :evilgrin:

[asdjrocky]

22. I kind of have my own personal measuring rod to determine if I'm having too much or too little sex.

Just saying.

[slutticus]

I've got a measuring rod for you right here....

[slutticus]

23. I've got a measuring rod for you right here....

[unblock]

25. according to wikipedia, he's wrong:

(and, as anyone can edit a wikipedia entry, it represents the collective wisdom of the entire planet :sarcasm:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_addiction

The American Psychiatric Association publishes and periodically updates the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), a widely recognized compendium of acknowledged mental disorders and their diagnostic criteria. The most recent version of that manual, DSM-IV-TR, was published in 2000 and does not recognize sexual addiction as a diagnosis.<7> Although some authors had expressed that excluding sexual addiction from the DSM represents a problem,<8> the proposed diagnosis was rejected for consideration for inclusion in the DSM5.<9> Darrel Regier, vice-chair of the DSM-5 task force, said that "lthough 'hypersexuality' is a proposed new addition... was not at the point where we were ready to call it an addiction."

[eridani]

27. Let's just stick with the physiological meaning, 'k?

Food, sex, gambling--I call bullshit on the use of "addiction" in connection with any of them. There is a perfectly good term that we can use instead--compulsive behavior. What's wrong with that?

It may be that there are things that different forms of compulsive behavior have in common. For instance, I recall reading an anectote about a bulimic who took some kind of experimental drug. She said it not only helped her control food cravings, but also helped her quit shoplifting.

[On the Road]

38. Of Course, There May Not be That Big a Gulf Between the Two

There is a school of thought that finds all addiction based behavioral in nature. Both chemical and non-chemical additions like gambling share a powerful compulsion, feelings of withdrawal, the need for increased stimulation, and other commonly observed properties of addiction.

Drugs certainly have a physiological effect, but there are no identifiable chemical substances that make a particular drug addictive or nonaddictive.

[eridani]

56. There is physical withdrawal from not shoplifiting?

I think that's stretching the concept. With alcohol and nicotine you can describe the physiology of withdrawal in detail. Not so with compulsive behavior, IMO.

[liberal N proud]

28. 10 Surprising Health Benefits of Sex

The health benefits of sex extend well beyond the bedroom. Turns out sex is good for you in ways you may never have imagined.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-sex?ecd=wnl_sxr_030610

[Lorien]

31. Good article. It's a shame that American puritanism has attached so much

guilt to it. Outside of unwanted pregnancies and STDs, it's one of the healthier activities we can engage in. Of course, if it weren't for abstinence only education unwanted pregnancies and STDs would be less of a problem!

[Supersedeas]

109. so can we be addicted to being healthy too?

[classysassy]

29. Sex Addiction

I am an addict,I need two hookers a day,will my medicare cover my addiction?

[Withywindle]

34. Yeah, that's the big problem with classifying issues with things like sex and food as "addictions"

Standard treatment for addictions, like 12-step programs like AA and NA advise total abstinence for life, with a lot of social pressure and support involved.

No one can give up food completely for life, and very few people *should* give up sex for life. So the usual treatment modes of "addiction" obviously can't apply here.

Why not just accept that the human range of feeling of sexual desire varies INCREDIBLY wide. Asexuality exists and is legitimate, and so is a level of desire that truly, honestly, healthily wants it several times a day every day. Most of us are somewhere in between.

[gkhouston]

35. There's a difference between wanting sex several times a day

and going $50,000 dollars in debt on pornography and prostitutes to feed your craving. There's a difference between wanting sex and leaving a two-year-old unsupervised for several hours while you lock yourself in your bedroom to have long distance phone sex with your lover du jour.

It's desire when you want to have sex all the time, it's addiction when you yield to that desire to the detriment of yourself and others.

[Withywindle]

51. Is it really just a matter of how much money you spend?

'Cause wanking costs nothing and can be done many times a day with no ill health or financial effects, including in the bathroom at work. (Go ahead; ask me how I know. :blush: I'm female, by the way.)

I suppose a sexual "addiction" that requires the participation of other people offers up whole different realms of problems, but it's still not a chemical addiction in the same category as alcoholism or heroin or meth addiction.

[varkam]

63. I think some might beg to differ.

Once reward pathways in your brain are ground in pretty well through years of repeated behavior, dopamine cascade can sure look a hell of a lot like someone getting a crack high on a PET scan.

[gkhouston]

94. You're missing the compulsive to the point of destruction aspect of sex addiction

which is like chemical addiction. It's not just wanking "many times a day". A sex addict can feel compelled to wank even when their genitals are sore and it's no longer a pleasurable experience. They'll spend money they don't have and can't afford to repay and lie to their spouses to cover it up. They'll lie to their bosses, too, to make excuses for why they're missing work or behind on completing assignments. They'll spend hours driving around, looking for sex. They don't even enjoy the sex anymore, but they feel driven to seek it.

[seabeyond]

95. "They don't even enjoy the sex anymore". this is what people are looking away from

not wanting to acknowledge

[1776Forever]

40. I think you missed the point if you look at it from a committed partnership view.

There is nothing wrong with going out and having all the sex you want for enjoyment if you aren't married but once you commit to a monogamous relationship and then go out with anyone that comes along that "turns you on" then it is obvious that you aren't thinking with your brain but with your ......... fill in the blank. I think more people should think about this before they commit and have children.

This type of behavior has ended many millions of marriages I am sure. With the risk of AIDS in this day and age it seems that if someone does let their urges take over they must realize that they could pay the price of contracting it and so could their loved one. I think there is much more to the Tiger Woods problem then the sexual side of it. He was obviously trying to fill a need in his life with a sexual high just like an alcoholic or drug addict would. Like I said it isn't just about the sex in his case IMO and now he is fighting to keep his family together.

A person has to weigh the cost of what they do and how much they believe it is worth. If two people have an open marriage that is up to them but again I don't think it is just a black and white issue. Don't get married and commit to a monogamous relationship if you want to have sex with as many people as you can, pure and simple!

[JCMach1]

42. A pretty good percentage of our population is NOT monogamous

Those people and US as a society should stop kidding ourselves.

What ends marriages is denial and unreasonable expectations about monogamy.

[Political Heretic]

49. Some are people are, and say they are. Some people aren't and say they are.

Some people aren't and say they aren't.

As someone who has been monogamous in any relationship I've ever been in, I don't want to be marginalized. Yet, I also acknowledge freely that some others in society are not monogamous. I don't really have a hard number or percentage, and I doubt you do either. But I accept that some people are and some people aren't.

[704wipes]

54. Is You or Is You Ain't ?

Don't know why your post made me think of this song, which could fit in this thread too:

http://www.last.fm/music/Renee+Olstead/_/Is+You+Is+Or+Is+You+Ain%27t+My+Baby

[seabeyond]

53. 17-18% females screwin around, 20% men. lots of both gender not.

to say it is an unreasonable expectation obviously doesnt apply to all people

[JCMach1]

55. Here's the problem written large in Statistics

Recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)...

90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong... http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html


That's the disconnect I was talking about.

[1776Forever]

75. Then DON"T GET MARRIED if your partners expectations are that you will be faithful.

That is all I am saying. Don't lie about it and want to have a double life! Be honest and up front!

[proteus_lives]

45. No such thing.

What is not being able to keep your dick in your pants or your legs crossed? It's called a lack of character.

[kimmerspixelated]

118. Heh!

Agreed!

[Whoknows44]

47. couldn't agree more

In the old days they called them perverts. Now they're ill. Go figure.

[varkam]

58. And, in the old days, alcoholics drank themselves to death instead of getting treatment.

Go figure.

[Political Heretic]

48. /facepalm Common People! Sex Addiction is not about having "too much sex" for fucks sake...

It's about an inability to control impulse so that your sexual activity is harmful to yourself or to your ability to maintain healthy social relationships....

Someone can have sex every 30 minutes for 24 hours straight for all I care and not be a "sex addict." But when the impulse for sex at any cost overrides every other rational sensibility - to the harm of yourself or your ability to maintain functioning relationships - then something's become a "compulsion" or "addiction."

[varkam]

59. +1

[cali]

60. well said.

anything can be an addiction.

[Dorian Gray]

65. Exactly

Thanks for writing so succinctly and clearly what it's all about.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. And it seems to be 'sexual conquest' too, not just 'sex', at least in common usage

It seems to be when someone gathers large numbers of partners despite claiming to be monogamous that the 'sex addict' tag is brought out.

[TheMadMonk]

61. I'm not going to bite on whether or not this should be considered a ligitmate condition.

Where I will put in my two cents worth, is to say: No addiction excuses or mittigates criminal behaviour.

Don't care if someone finally sees the error of their ways and joins AA, NA or enters into treatment five minutes after ploughing through that schoolyard. If they're addiction resulted in their committing a crime then the presence of an addiction should not be reason for a reduced sentence and until they have successfully completed treatment they should have zero elligibility for parole or any form of early release.

[varkam]

62. Mr. Lawrence's narrow interpretation of 'addiction' betrays his ignorance of the literature.

Presumably, then, Mr. Lawrence would also think that other process addictions such as gambling, eating, etc are likewise fictions. Mr. Lawrence says that sex is not an addictive substance, but one need only scratch the surface of any neuropsychiatric textbook to see the mischaracterization present in his posting.

Of course, Mr. Lawrence also mischaraterizes the very nature of sex addiction itself. Authorities on the subject relate that it is not simply desiring to have more sex, as he seems to believe, but it relates to compulsion to certain sexual acts such that it interferes with one's life.

[Kitty Herder]

145. +1

[sendero]

70. I've always laughed out loud at..

.. that nonsense. Now it is possible for person to have such little impulse control so that they get themselves into trouble with sex. But "sex addiction"?

Every normal person is addicted to sex.

[pipi_k]

73. I wouldn't know about "sex addiction", but I do know about

"love addiction".

Falling in love releases certain feel-good chemicals into the brain. It's like being on a "high" without drugs.


When the "high" ends, it's time to get rid of the other person and get a new object of affection in order to feel that "high" again.

It probably isn't so much about falling in love with the person, as it is about falling in love with love.

I've been there. I've ruined a number of lives, including my own, because I didn't realize what was going on. Now I know, and I no longer go out searching for that "high". Been married (for the third time) for 15 years this month. Longest lasting relationship I've ever been in.

So...as to whether or not sexual addiction exists, I dunno. But I do know that love addiction is real.

[laughingliberal]

82. Now, now. You're messing up the narrative of those who denigrate anything they don't understand. nt

[Kitty Herder]

146. I've been there.

I hate to think of those I've hurt pursuing my fix. Now I'm content to be alone. I don't trust myself in relationships anymore. But I hope that someday I'll be able to have a healthy relationship that will last.

[seabeyond]

77. i think the saddest about this op is the normal is the person with a major objective in life

pursuing sex.

it really is nifty to be in a position in life where one is gratified sexually and can use the energy for other pursuits other than obtaining sex.

when a person is satisfied in food, sleep, sex, they are NOT major objectives in life. when those needs are satisfied, they find a nice comfy place in balance and contentment where they dont take the full focus of ones life over....

it is said a good sex life is about 10% of a marriage. a bad or no sex life is about 90%.

[TexasObserver]

78. Dr. Drew is addicted to finding addictions.

I'm sure there are sex addicts, but a billion dollar pro athlete with endless money cheating is simply bad behavior by someone who knew better but let the little head do the thinking.

[jaysunb]

91. Bingo !

can't begin to tell you how right you are .

[mitchum]

80. But the meetings are GREAT places for picking up women!

[lumpy]

81. There are certain simians that copulate many times a day with

anything and everything they can. Seems to be a primal urge with some lower primates. In the past I have met a couple of humans who just couldn't leave it alone also; consequently this causes problems with relationships and is devistating to the person who is constantly in a state of sexual urge frustration. This is a real problem.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

86. very superficial and uneducated Counterpunch rant

I wouldn't expect the author to understand that process addictions are as authentic as substance addictions.

Addictions have been classified as a syndrome precisely because addicted individuals all exhibit a similar experience with regard to the addictive cycle, regardless of the type of addiction. Substance and process addictions both follow a similar trend with identical markers along the way.

http://www.bma-wellness.com/addictions/addictions.html
The Addictive Process
Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.


The addictive process is a recognizable psychological and behavioral syndrome that expresses itself in a particular individual in regard to specific substances or processes but which exhibits a striking similarity and commonality among addicted individuals regardless of their specific circumstances and particular addictions.

Addictions may be subdivided into:

* substance addictions, including alcohol, various illicit and licit drugs
* process addictions such as food, sex, gambling, work and spending.

Crossover, switching of addictions, multiple addictions and a changing pattern of addiction are common but not universal features of an underlying addictive illness with recognizable structural features of its own. In depth understanding of addictive processes must begin with the general and common features of addiction and move to the specifics of the addictive expression in a specific individual. Whether the addiction is single or multiple, substance or process, legal or illegal or an unstable and shifting combination of all the above, certain recurring and recognizable common features distinguish addictive from non-addictive processes.

Characteristics of the addictive process are:

* salience, obsession, abnormal or pathological importance of the substance or behavior
* persistence, rigidity, stereotypy, inflexibility and repetition of the particular addictive behavior
* relative immunity to adverse consequences and resistance to learned modification of behavior
* the invocation of an interrelated system of psychological defenses which, like a string of military forts, function in concert to protect the individual from the full realization and acknowledgement of the self- and other- harmful nature of his addiction and hence provide cover and concealment for the continued expression of the addictive process.

**********************************

LESS TECHNICAL EXPLANATION

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-process-addiction.htm
Process addiction is an addiction to an activity or process, such as eating, spending money, or gambling. These addictive behaviors can be as debilitating as those associated with substance addictions, and they require psychological treatment. People sometimes have difficulty understanding process addictions, because they believe that people should just be able to stop negative behavior, but people with process addictions face the same problems that people with substance addictions do.

In many discussions of addiction, the term “process addiction” is used to create a rough category of addictions which is differentiated from substance addictions. You can think of a process addiction as compulsive behavior which is related to a process, while substance addiction requires the ingestion of a particular substance. Substance addictions have been recognized for centuries; process addiction was less widely accepted until the 20th century.

The process of addiction is extremely complex, and it appears to be influenced by a variety of factors. Someone's mental state, genetics, and social status can all contribute to addiction, as can factors like childhood experiences. Addiction appears to be closely linked to the idea of psychological gratification, in that people learn to indulge in an activity or substance to be rewarded in some way, and this in turn creates a state of dependency.

[jaysunb]

89. delete

[LostInAnomie]

92. I think he is intentionally misunderstanding and misrepresenting the addiction.

People with legitimate sex addiction (Tiger Woods does not count) aren't just ultra horny people looking to get off, and it isn't a example of our Western Values being forced upon sex again. These people's addiction is an interruption to their daily life. It causes them to pursue sexual activity at the expense of their own well being, physical health, and reputation.

Raymond Lawrence is being purposefully obtuse.

[NoodleyAppendage]

93. Those with Kluver Bucy tend to have too much sex...

...they also tend to be hyperoral and completely institutionalized. ;)

J

[anonymous171]

96. Typical "radical" nonsense from counterpunch. ALSO a shitty appeal to nature

[treestar]

99. It is way more complicated than that

If people have such a problem they go to shrinks over it - and being involved with many other people at such an intimate level can cause problems. There's a reason the monogamy thing took for so long and in so many cultures.

They should have a disease for people who are rich and still feel like they have to keep making money, too.

[guitar man]

116. I've been using the term "wealth addiction"

For several years now. I've gotten more than a few funny looks when I roll it out, but that doesn't stop me from using it.

:hi:

[alarimer]

101. I think it is an excuse for shitty behavior.

Yes there might be some kind of compulsion involved if it starts to impinge on your life but, by and large, it is an excuse by men (mostly) who want to fuck around a whole lot and get caught doing it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

103. A friend of mine --

used to have a boyfriend who wanted sex three times a day, seven days a week. It just about killed her for the five months she stayed with him. And it did interfere with his life. Work, activities, and their relationship were all worked around his desire for sex.

Was it an addiction? Maybe, dunno really. Was it creating a problem in his life? Yup.

[jaysunb]

106. This sounds more like an

obsession/compulsion thing rather than sex addiction. But, you're right, that would certainly interfere w/ ones life. :shrug:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

110. From the outside looking in --

it "felt" like he was using sex as a stress reliever -- where others would smoke some pot or have a few drinks, he would have sex to deal with his anxieties. Very bonobo.

When she told me three times a day my vagina recoiled and went, "Ouch!" :D

[Cetacea]

104. Violence Addiction.

"You show someone kiss a tit, it get's an X. You show someone hack the tit off with an ax, it gets
an R. Go figure." - Jack Nicholson

[LanternWaste]

105. Too much beer? No such thing. Too much food? No such thing...

Too much beer? No such thing.

Too much food? No such thing.

Too much lethargy? No such thing.

Too much work? No such thing.


Else maybe there is...

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

111. "extreme feminists are people you wouldn't wanna fuck" .

why is it men who talk like this are men who never get it, just talk big for their buddies so they can feel like a man since they dont know how to be a man.

[noiretextatique]

112. this kind of shit is welcome here

one of the many reasons i don't post here much anymore.

[seabeyond]

115. i do know the men that talk like this are the very men i also listen to saying they dont get it

why dont any woman want me, .... wa wa wa

and like any of these women would want to be fucked by the assholes.... undoubtedly foreplay is a nontruth perpetuated by feminists too.

[SimonPhoenix]

131. I get plenty, honey,

And foreplay isn't just a noun -- at least not to me.

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

134. sure you do, big boy.... just keep telling us what a man you are. someone, somewhere

just might fall for it some time.

[SimonPhoenix]

137. Well,

I guess that my wife is either just as deluded as I am, or she appreciates that I have more to offer than what some anonymous poster on a message board thinks. Don't worry, we split the housework equally. Perhaps you'd like to stop in for a home visit to ensure that she doesn't have a blacker (because her eye is already black) eye.

:rofl:

[jaysunb]

123. Hey you !

:hi:

[SimonPhoenix]

113. You're totally right

Not. If Andrea Dworkin was buried near me, the only thing stopping me from spitting on her grave would be the laws prohibiting desecration of gravesites.

It's not about talking big. It's about stating facts-some of the extreme feminists are in cahoots with the religious nuts to spread this "sex addiction" myth and to ban pornography. I have seen posts on this very website where posters state that someone who views pornography on a regular basis is more likely to commit rape. They rarely cite sources for such assertions, and on the rare occasion that they actually cite a source, it's usually a cite-back to some ridiculous website or blog run by some nutjob who thinks that all sex is rape or other assorted bullshit like that.

You think I have to talk big? I grew up in the Trinidad section of DC. Talking big there without shit to back it up would get you killed. After graduating college (by the way, I was the only kid on my street to even graduate from high school), I moved to a better neighborhood, but I still live in DC. So don't even accuse me of talking big-what a fucking joke.

[seabeyond]

114. you know, those old men, that cant get it up anymore but it is the only thing they identify as being

a man....

ya, this shit... that you are spouting.

[SimonPhoenix]

120. Whatever you say, Amarillo

nt

[seabeyond]

128. in all your wisdom, do tell, what does amarillo have to do with anything? nt

[SimonPhoenix]

129. It means don't ever accuse me of talking big without proof

I'm not a typical male and I didn't grow up like a typical male. Certainly didn't grow up in a nice middle-class white town like Amarillo. We had drive-bys on my street every week in high school.

[seabeyond]

133. so amarillo means that to you? you have proof all feminists are unfuckable?

dude... i am accusing you of spouting off a bunch of pumpin your chest bullshit without proof. i dont think you know all feminists. i dont think you know they are all unfuckable. i dont think they would fuck you anyway.... regardless, cause ya are all mouth. so proof, nah, you dont have it. you fall short. again.

and

i started in phoenix. grew up in calif. lived single adult years in reno

who the fuck grew up in amarillo?

oh wait

not me

more spouting off crap without proof?

[SimonPhoenix]

138. What proof, pray tell, would you like?

It's my OPINION. It was said half-jokingly. I paraphrased George Carlin, for Christ's sake. I never claimed to know all feminists. I never claimed that they were all unfuckable. Even the paraphrased joke used the adjective "most".

I'm sorry that you made the mistake of assuming that I actually care about where you live/grew up. You're a white woman in America. That means that no matter where you grew up, you had it better than I did. Hah. And I still came out with a better head on my shoulders. Thanks affirmative action!

[seabeyond]

141. it was a stupid sexist comment that is old and tired made by old and tired men.... par to the racist

and homophobic "jokes" assholes make to make themselves feel better then tell the offended group to "lighten" up.

you talk about the "extreme" feminist going after male, yet here everyone of your post is a chip on the shoulder attitude towards women. all the way from they arent fuckable to holding men down to size 6 boot to middle class white woman.....

your posts, you own it.

[SimonPhoenix]

148. You're totally right

You're so oppressed, seabeyond. How do you get through the day? What a struggle it must be for you to suffer under such a patriarchal system.

[seabeyond]

136. size 6 womens boot firmly planted on your windpipe. grow up. nt

[LanternWaste]

122. Under some, but not all conditions.

"Religious nuts claim it exists and is sinful..." Under some, but not all conditions.

"Extreme feminists claim that it exists and is dangerous because it leads to rape." Again, under some, but not all conditions.

What precisely is an "extreme feminist"? I imagine it's any feminist who may intimidate sad-sacks who overuse generalizations-- but that's my answer-- what's yours?

[SimonPhoenix]

132. Okay

Extreme feminism differs from feminism is that extreme feminists generally desire for women to subjugate men to the same extent that they claim men have subjugated women. Extreme feminists persecute men and strongly desire that there be no male representation in any position even tangentially related to public affairs. Some extreme feminists claim that all sex is rape. Some extreme feminists claim that porn is inherently misogynistic. By taking these positions, these extreme feminists show their inherent bias towards men and also show their cards: they don't desire gender equality. The extreme feminists see men as intrinsically evil.

Quit it with the intimidation canard. Or continue. I don't really care. But it's laughable that you think I'm intimidated by some upper-middle class white women posting on a message board. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. If you're a man, I suppose I should ask you how you manage to breathe with the size 6 womens boot firmly planted on your windpipe.

[LanternWaste]

149. And precisely what do you base this conjecture off of?

"extreme feminists generally desire for women to subjugate men to the same extent"

And what precisely do you base this conjecture off of (beside anecdotal evidence)?

[MellowDem]

108. The idea of sex addiction seems to have been misrepresented...

The idea is that the chemicals that are released in the run up to and during an orgasm can become a chemical addiction for some people, depending on how much their body releases, and that is the main idea behind sex addiction. If someone has a sex addiction, they will go to great lengths to get that feeling, even doing dangerous things such as having sex without protection with strangers. Of course, there can be a mental side to it as well. There are a lot of people who enter into sexual relationships because of emotional dysfunction and needs that can end up worse off than before. I don't think there is such a thing as having "too much sex", but rather what kind of potentially dangerous situations one might put themselves into in order to get it.

A lot of people say Tiger Woods was stupid for having done what he did, since it was obvious he would eventually get caught as he had more and more partners. But if you have an addiction, you don't really consider the consequences of your actions per se. And so now Tiger has hurt his family and lost millions in endorsements over an addiction. There's nothing morally wrong with having lots of sexual partners, but there is something wrong with going back on your word to your wife and involving your children and family in something like this. If Tiger was single none of this would matter, but because he was a married man with more repsonsibilities, it does.

Cheating on your wife doesn't make you a sexual addict, but to me, the obvious disregard of the possible consequences in this case and the need for lots of different partners points to a possible addiction, be it mental or chemical. Tiger was in a unique situation as well in that he was able to fufill his addiction easily and (I'm guessing) in a safe way because of his status, but like any other addiction, if you don't have much money or status, you might go to much more dangerous lengths to fulfill your addiction.

[jaysunb]

121. If he (Tiger) were single

there wouldn't be any talk of "addiction.," it would be presented as being, a helluva "stud."
And most of the rest of us broke slobs would simply drool at the chance to make the rounds like he did.

[MellowDem]

126. Very true.... nt

[dave29]

124. Sex can absolutely be an addiction.

The problem here is semantic. People think of the act of lovemaking and apply it to the concept of addiction. Sex addiction is not about that. When physical sex, or the desire to achieve or remain at a state of pre-orgasm take over a person's life, they find themselves with mountains of debt, ruined relationships, and little control over their own actions. I see all the laughing in this thread, but I've also seen good people's lives ruined by porn, compulsive masturbation, and phone sex. We are not talking so much about affairs here, although that can be a component as well. Most of these folks have some sort of genetic predisposition to addiction, have unfortunate histories, and truly despise themselves for their inability to stop what they know is ruining their lives.

Rehab programs can be just as effective as their counterparts for drug/alcohol addictions. Frequently all of these things merge together.

[Imagevision]

130. Only today Micket Rourke boasts of doing 14 girls in one night...(yowser!

[liberalhistorian]

135. Well, I'd love to have sex every day if I could,

but I'm married, so, unfortunately, it ain't happenin'. Does that make me an "addict" in the eyes of these Dipshit Diagnostics?

Sheesh, how fucking stupid, ridiculous and puritan. Pun intended.