I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to grow up a gay Mormon

[dsc]

I have a Mormon aunt and uncle and know a little bit about the Mormon religion. It is heavily family based both here and in the hereafter. Being a gay Mormon means losing your family at least in the hereafter and often here too. The pressure on both gays and their family members is intense due to this dynamic. The shame of ruining your family forever would have to be crushing. I can't say for sure that Marie Osmond's son was gay. The evidence, while completely circumstantial, make a fairly compelling case that he was. Mormons have the blood of innocent gays on their hands. Gays who have done nothing wrong have slaughered themselves because they couldn't, not wouldn't, but couldn't live up to the sandards of this modern day voodoo. Many times these gays are people who have had the extreme misfortune of growing up in this scandalous religion.

But they aren't content merely ruining the lives of their adherents and their adherents children. Instead they spend millions in tax free dollars making sure that gays anywhere don't get the full measure of their rights. If they had their way the children of gay couples would also be sacrificed upon the alter of their heritical cult. Kid after kid shedding their precious blood in the name of a cult founded by a racist con man with golden plates.

I truely feel sorry for Marie Osmond. I wish her all the best. That said, I have nothing but contempt for the elderly con men who are using a book of snake oil recipies to deprive gays everywhere of their rights. They have killed enough gays. Actually way too many gays for way too long. We won't shut up.

[Subdivisions]

1. There is a way to fix this. Choose not to be

Mormon.

Edited to add: Still, that doesn't fix the family.

[dsc]

2. It often means giving up your family too

It is a huge loss for many a gay Mormon.

[Subdivisions]

3. Yea, you're right. I edited my post, as you were typing, to point that out. It's

a lose/lose situation. :(

[Kitty Herder]

27. Fortunately, few Mormon families actually disown their relatives when they leave the church.

And most of the gay Mormons I know are more or less accepted by their families. Love trumps dogma in most cases. All of the ex-Mormons and gay Mormons and gay ex-Mormons I know personally are still accepted by their families. Those families may be disappointed and may hope and pray for their relative to come back to the fold and push them to do so, but ultimately they still love them and treat them well. Of course, we all hear about families who disown a gay or apostate child. It certainly does happen. So there is always the fear that one's family will react that way.

It's the community that almost always treats those who leave the church or come out of the closet with contempt. If you leave the church, you will lose friends. Your neighbors will treat you like a pariah. And it will be hard to find new friends and a new social circle outside the church. It's particularly hard in a small Utah town like the one I live in. I'm pretty alone here and certain people treat me like I'm the anti-Christ because I left their church long ago. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to live here as a gay person. I have a gay friend who grew up here who says he used to fear for his life before he got the hell out of here. And honestly, though I'd like to believe no one would have hurt him if they knew, I'm glad that he lives a long way away now.

[Walk away]

4. I will never understand how these people suddenly seem to be "acceptable".

Mormons have always (and rightly) been considered the freaks of the world of organized religion. What happened?

I can only imagine that the Fundie Christians have just become so cultish and hateful that both these religions have finally come together in their mutual hatred of homosexuals and reality.

People like the Osmonds should be ashamed of themselves for promoting all of this hate. It's a shame that instead they praise a cult that virtually killed one of their children.

[Ian David]

5. Marie Osmond has spoken out against Mormon Homophobia.

Marie Osmond Supports Her Gay Daughter
http://www.afterellen.com/people/2009/5/marie-osmond


Marie Osmond Isn’t Anti-Gay (At Least Not Anymore)
May 8, 2009
http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2009/05/08/marie-osmond-isnt-anti-gay-at-least-not-anymore/

Roseanne Tells It Like It Is: Marie Osmond's Son Died of Homophobia
http://www.examiner.com/x-26261-LA-Freethinking-Examiner~y2010m3d5-Roseanne-Tells-It-Like-It-Is-Marie-Osmonds-Son-Died-of-Homophobia

[Jennicut]

20. And not only did she speak out against it because of her daughter Jessica there is

no proof Michael was gay. His two best friends denied it (his roommate and the young woman whom he left the suicide note to.) But we will never really know, perhaps it is none of our business anyway.

[dsc]

21. I nearly killed myself over being gay when in college

my roommates would have sworn I was straight had I succeeded. We protect those we love, especially in death.

[Jennicut]

36. Yes, but that was you. There is nothing wrong with his being gay

(which would have been a major issue for him, his being a Mormon), but it is all really speculation, isn't it?

[jwirr]

13. The ecumenical movement and the politicization of the fundies has

a lot to do with their rise in the world. The first encouraged churches to accept each other despite differences in theology and the second makes anyone who will vote repug okay with the fundies. Thus the not-quite christian mormons have suddenly become equal partners. By the way this is not my opinion - it is my observations.

[Kitty Herder]

29. The Mormon church has worked very hard to be seen as mainstream.

They've run a massive public relations campaign and disavowed many of their more bizarre beliefs. Think of Gordon B. Hinckley telling Larry King that this line is just a couplet: "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

Just a couplet my ass! That's one of the central doctrines of Mormonism and it was expressed in many sermons and written works besides that little couplet. Evey prophet, including Hinckley himself has taught that to be true.

But it makes Mormons seem weird, so it has to be disavowed.

[KittyWampus]

6. I sincerely hope you don't shut up and more people hear and join with you. That said,

it seems ill-advised to call out the Osmond family at this time.

As for religion in general, I'm just not a great fan of dogma.

[Junkdrawer]

7. Think "Glenn Beck" n/t

[Umbral]

8. What's really surprising....

Of those few that survive - achieve some semblance of a normal life - how many of them still refuse to criticize the Mormon faith. The indoctrination process is so strong they cant let go of those belief structures and still remain intact. It's not just the gays, it's generally true of most who disassociate from the religion.

[roguevalley]

34. the mormon church is interesting. I have been innundated by missionaries

for about a year and I remember going to a service once. It was intensely warm and familiar, like going to a do at a grange. The spirituality of Mormonism, that is, a lot of the afterlife information they teach and believe is interesting and comforting. They are a different bunch.

[Hepburn]

9. Mormon church?

That is NOOOOOOOOOO church, IMO.

[Sheepshank]

10. I have some to say on this

There are some, a few, not enough Mormon families that have accepted their gay family members. BUT in most cases, the gay family member is not supposed to act on those gay urges at the risk that they may lose that acceptance. They must live in sexual denial, and sorrow for the missed opportunity of finding a life partner they can truly love without boundaries. They must pretend and even try to live heterosexual lives, possible finding out the hard way that pretense is not the answer.

Then there are those that have come out, but the mountain of emotions surrounding the cult of mormonism that is their family life, for generations, family make up and the entire family core is tough to consider tossing aside. They cannot fathom life without the crutch that is their church. There will always be fallout. There will be their family and fellow members and neighbor mormons that will castigate, deride, ridicule and preach them into pretending they are 'cured'.

There will be the Mormons that will attempt to ignore that they exist..cut off, and disowned. There are those mormons that think they are progressive enough to try and accept the trials of a person who claims they are gay. Those mormons that attempt to be progressive will for ever either give them whithering judgmental glances from the side lines, never actually words of judgment. Or there will 'progressive' that will look forever on the gay person with pity for their lost eternal heritage and for bad choices that have brought them to this state.

I have seen on the news a handful of moms that have truly accepted their gay child, wants them to be happy and whole and have petitioned their mormon leaders to back off on the judgements....but I think most of them have found themselves in their own ecclesiastical hot water with thread of being disfellowshipped or even threatened with excommunication. The church that even tries to beat the mothers into submission. Bastards. By far and large, life is hell as a gay mormon. The unfortunate reality is that most mormons fall into the groups that do not completely accept and love their gay family members without condition. Marie Osmond speaking out is rare, unusual and she probably got a talking to to about that.

[flyarm]

11. this would apply to most religions! I know many catholics that are no different!That is a pretty

narrow example you give.

[dsc]

12. Catholicism, as bad as it is, doesn't make a families status in the afterlife dependent upon

the entire family being Catholic now. It also hasn't run conversion factories for decades.

[etherealtruth]

18. There is some kind of disconnect in Catholocism....

... the people that I have been closest too that are Gay are members of the Catholic clergy. A local all boys Catholic Prep School (renowned for its excellence in education) is very accepting of its Gay students .... to the point where there is not a lot of hesitation to come out to their class-mates.

Growing upi Catholic I never heard any condemnation of Gay people at the parish level.

I am very aware of the vatican's position .... and the position of many nationally prominent Catholics (that Donahoe /hue crazy come to mind) ... there is a real disconnect.

[Raster]

14. It's a bitch. I grew up mormon in a small mormon town in Southeast Arizona.

My opinion: The mormon church is a viciously homophobic, sexist, racist religious organization that reflects the worst of American organized religion. Their history is bloody and filled with lies and inconsistencies. Scientology of the 1800s.

[Vinnie From Indy]

15. When Joseph Smith was in the woods and met the Angel Moroni

the angel asked him, "Joe, what do you like most in the world"?

Joe replied, "I like women"!

"What else do you like Joe"?

"I like money"

"Have I got a religion for you" said the angel.

[Raster]

16. And Joseph looked at Moroni and said "but I just join the Masons."

"No problem," said the Angel. "We should be able to work that in."

[Kitty Herder]

30. LOL

:rofl:

[dsc]

17. kick

[dsc]

19. kick and adding a video from a man who does know what it is like to be a gay Mormon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfPXcCroPJc

[fishwax]

22. growing up female in the church is also no picnic

k/r

[dsc]

23. and I would have even less of an idea of that

I will say it amazes me how my intelligent and liberated aunt can belong to such a church. It is very much a cognative dissonance.

[fishwax]

32. yep, I know what you mean

Most of the folks I know who are liberal have left the church, but not all. I will say, also, that it is, for some of the reasons you've mentioned, a difficult church to leave, so perhaps for your aunt the cognitive dissonance is a small price to pay. I don't know.

For women, the deal is that they can't be saved except through their husbands, and so their main purpose is to make themselves an appealing mate for a returned missionary. Based on folks I have known (including my wife and some other people close to me) it really does a number in terms of skewing one's sense of self worth. But I can only imagine the difficulties of growing up gay in the church. I know of one guy whose family was close to my wife's family, and when my sister-in-law ran into the parents and an older brother while visiting the old hometown, she asked how he was doing. They refused to answer the question--wouldn't, in fact, even acknowledge that the question had been asked :grr::cry:

Of course, I know that gay kids are rejected way too often in non-Mormon families, too, but the dynamics of the family relationship and the expectation of a happy family just really compound the situation.

[dsc]

33. My aunt is a convert as is my uncle

they were married before they became Mormons. I think they both credit Mormonism with getting him out of an alcohol problem but the dynamic for her is different than for her daughters (all of whom stayed in the church)

[Kitty Herder]

31. Ain't that the truth.

Oh, well. It made me the mean old harpy I am today.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. The shedding of blood is a big part of that religion as well

Some quotes from Brigham Young:
""It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man."

And...
"Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? "

[Emit]

25. dsc, did you ever see this video? If you haven't seen it, it's a must see

Posted last fall here at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=371778


Suicide Note
TheRachelle31
September 15, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRmzslkxLOI&feature=player_embedded

[dsc]

28. I hadn't but it is a great video thanks for linking it

[QC]

26. It means you never get to become a god and rule over your own planet. n/t

[UndertheOcean]

35. take that , and multiply it for the case of a gay Muslim .

multiply it by a million for a gay Muslim in the Arab or Islamic world .

:(

[proteus_lives]

37. I have a gay friend from the UAE.

He's a student here and he's trying desperately to remain in the states. Explaining why he hasn't found a wife and fending off the planned-marriage folks in his family is becoming harder and harder.