Avatar should have won best picture. The Hurt Locker as Propaganda, an Army recruiting vehicle

[Better Believe It]

Avatar should have won .... easily. Certainly when compared to Hurt Locker.

[hlthe2b]

1. Avatar is a heavy director's pic; Hurt Locker is an actor's pic

and actors overwhelmingly outnumber directors among the voting members of the academy--not to mention the bias against such a commercial movie. Good on them.

[Better Believe It]

5. Hurt Locker was a good movie .... it held my attention. But, it wasn't a great movie like Avatar.

So did many other movies.

It certainly wasn't anywhere close to being the best picture.

[TransitJohn]

7. I don't think Avatar was a great movie at all.

Good, sure...very formulaic script, weak character development, and some barely adequate acting (eat your eyes for jujubes).

[Subdivisions]

15. Agreed. It's a typical boiler plate sci-fi action adventure. Don't

get me wrong, though. That's the kind of movie I love best and I really loved Avatar. Can't wait to see Avatar 2!

[hlthe2b]

8. Perhaps but for the reasons listed, I expected it to turn out that way.

Actors are just not going to vote in mass for a meeting that de-emphasizes actors over special effects, computer effects, etc.

[Tommy Lent]

257. Avatar vs. Hurt Locker - Pre-Oscar Review

I wrote this article a day before the Oscars.

At this point it’s basically a 2 film contest between “Avatar” and “The Hurt Locker”. They’re both up for Best Picture and Best Director, among other technical categories. From what I’m reading it seems that “Hurt Locker” is favored among voters, who just happen to be members of the Oscar Academy of Motion Picture Arts, consisting of artists, directors, actors, writers, etc. You know, the people that sometimes like rebelling against “big” movies and going for something independent or the underdog.

I think “Avatar” deserves Best Picture, Director and certainly all the technical categories. No need to give details on why (uhhh, I think I lied. See below. LOL!). Instead, I’ll focus on The HL.

I saw it recently and although it’s a good movie, I didn’t think it was great. Director Kathryn Bigelow is a great director (“Point Break”, “Strange Days”). I just don’t think the movie held up. The story itself was totally original (Bomb defusing soldiers in Iraq). But it didn’t seem to “go anywhere”. By that I mean it started off with the group of soldiers dealing with incendiaries placed strategically by the Iraqi insurgents. A new “specialist” arrives after the previous one is killed and he turns out to be a real risk-taking renegade who happens to be great at what he does. His character is well-written and really carries the movie. The friction between himself and another soldier who doesn’t care for his recklessness is also something that the movie focuses on.

However, that’s about it. There’s very little character development and very little in terms of flashbacks and information about any of the soldiers prior to their assignment. It mostly consists of the guy carefully clipping the wires before the bomb goes off.

I think the strength in this movie is the visuals. It was shot in Turkey in a dry, desert-like area. At the beginning, due to the handheld camera, it really seemed like a documentary and I was waiting for it to “take hold”. It never did. But this camera work actually wound up being beneficial because you felt like you were the one holding the camera and were there.

Shortly after the buzz on this movie started (a couple of months ago) some EOD (Explosive Ordinance Defuser) soldiers stated that the movie was very unrealistic and that the big “suit” that the specialist wore was totally fictional. Also, they said the defusing work took much longer than depicted. Of course we have to cut the director some slack. You can’t have a movie with one single 2-hour defusing scene!

That’s really it. I can’t think of much more to say about the movie. Original and topical with no politics included at all, which enabled it to be an Oscar contender.

“Avatar”? Well, I’m not going to go too into it. For the folks who’ve said the plot was simple, well, I think they’re missing the point. Yes, the theme of the big, strong people taking over the weaker people to get what they want has been used countless times. Using an environmental theme was pretty original, but not all that “deep”.

But the whole middle section and the method of the human being able to engage the aliens was VERY original. The culture of the aliens was also very original and was the basis for many of the breathtaking visuals. The world of Pandora also caused mouths to drop. For those who say the movie was all about visual effects, I think they were just enjoying it and not paying attention to the story. And if someone says that who hasn’t even seen the movie, well, they might as well just not speak. (I have a friend who only saw the trailer and has no interest saying “It’s just a cartoon.” Duh.)

Although profits shouldn’t factor into Oscar contention at all, there’s a reason why this movie has made $2.5 billion and $700 million (and still going) domestically. It’s because people are seeing it multiple times. Yes, the prices for 3-D are inflated, but not to the point where it’s going to make this kind of money. The fact that it’s made approximately $1.8 billion INTERNATIONALLY shows that it has a universal appeal because it has a universal message.

The fun thing about this Oscar race is that Bigelow and Cameron were married some years ago. They’re still good friends and actually screen each other’s movies for each other (I wonder if he tries to make out with her! LOL!) He said he has enough awards and that if he doesn’t that’s fine but that if SHE doesn’t win he’ll be pissed. I don’t think he has to worry about that. It’ll be one or the other.

Speaking of, if I had to choose one or the other awards to be given, but not both, I’d say he should undoubtedly get “Best Director”. No question. To create what he did was extraordinary. It will change movies forever. This has been said by lots of people, himself included. After giving George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and others a screening before it came out, they were dumbfounded. He’s not trying to make it his own. He wants others to utilize it. We’ll see this develop in the not too distant future.

This year there’s a “10-vote” system used to determine who wins the awards and this will likely work against “Avatar”. Go look it up if you have the interest. It spells it out.

Bigelow would be the first woman to win Best Director. Don’t know if this will play into the hands of the voters (again, industry folks who love to be able to take part in “milestones”) but it’s possible. (Quick follow-up note to readers, Barbra Streisand (YUCK YUCK YUCK! Terrible choice) presented the award and immediately said “"From among the five gifted nominees tonight, the winner could be, for the first time, a woman,", After looking at the name inside The Envelope, Streisand then said, "Well, the time has come." THEN, ridiculously, the music played was “I am Woman. Hear me roar.”, that iconic Helen Ready women’s rights song from the 70s. I’d bet the world that Bigelow was NOT happy about that because it focused more on her gender than her directing. Who knows if this had any bearing at all on the voting.)

I hope there are no Brits voting for the Oscars though because of the awards they doled out at the British Film Academy Awards. The HL won six awards, among them, Best Picture and Director. Okay. Fine. But one thing I thought was totally ludicrous was that it was also awarded Best Cinematography, Sound and Editing. What are they KIDDING me?! Not even CLOSE! A handheld camera, a few explosions and an indoor fistfight scene? Yeah. Okay.

But I think the American voters (sorry Prince Andrew) are a little more honest in their votes. I’m confident “Avatar” will win all the technical awards. Cameron said that’s more important to him anyway because of all the work his people put into this project.

Not to take away from the Hurt Locker, but in 2 years, let alone 20 years, if you ask someone how they liked “Hurt Locker” you’ll likely get a “What?” response. With “Avatar”, they’ll know exactly where they were the first time they saw it.

It’ll be fun either way. I picture “Hurt Locker” winning and Cameron and Bigelow backstage:

Bigelow: “I won Best Dirrrrrrrrrrrector. Nyah nyah”

Cameron: “My movie made $2.8 billion dolllllllllllllarrrrrs. Nyah nyah.”

Bigelow: “Then why the fuck are you always late with your alimony payments bitch!?!?”

I didn't see "Precious", but it's an independent film and I hear it's really good. The story is good and very dark

(In response to a friend who thought it would be too scary for her)

Gigi, this movie isn't scary at all, except for a few of the scenes in the jungle. If you don't see it on the big screen, well, you're denying yourself an awesome experience. Here's a few quotes from an article I read a few months before the movie came out. It was after a only a 24-minute screening.

"The first footage from James Cameron’s Avatar was screened to over 1,000 European Industry attendees at CinemaExpo International in Amsterdam, and some of the early buzz has begun to leak out.

The preview included glimpses from unfinished portions of later battle scenes.” So what did everyone think of the first glimpse of the film that everyone is already touting as “revolutionary”?... See More

“The Insider” files his report on ComingSoon: “jaw-dropping experience.” … “3-D until now has been used as a gimmick.” On the human characters inhabiting their Avatars: “It took my breath away. I thought–just like you guys–that I’ve seen it all with Gollum, or The Hulk, but Cameron has done it again. These creatures seem so real, that within minutes you forget you’re watching an enormous and very blue CGI character. Even the eyes are totally convincing. The characters have real personalities and a soul.” … “How the hell is it possible that I never once felt like I’ve been watching a movie where almost everything comes out of a computer?” … “The effects are in a league of their own. After some disappointing or even pointless 3-D movies, Avatar maybe the first movie where 3-D is properly utilized.”

“Anonymous” over on IESB: “It makes me want to create a time machine like Cartman from South Park, so that I don’t have to wait till the 18th of December to watch the finished movie. If it’s anything like the scenes I saw, it’s going to be one of the best movies of the decade.”

Unique Cinema Systems Nord on Twitter: “stunning, literally jawdropping. Amazing visuals unlike any before seen, with incredible detail.” … “CGI was photorealistic, characters look really real. Believe the hype, this movie will be massive!” … “Cameron told audience each frame of finished film takes 30-50 hrs to render, then double that up for 3D.”

A scooper at MarketSaw: “The clips were amazing” … “You will NOT believe the detail.” … “The world outside is amazing. It all lives, breathes and works.” … “You will not believe the amount of leaves that look like someone created that jungle for real.” … “Little fireflies and birds fly through the shots without being there. You just take them as the world, like a dove in Central Park. It’s not placed there, it lives there and just happens to be in the shot.” … “There’s a shot of leaves somewhere which is so photorealistic you don’t want to think it’s CGI. You believe this world from the get-go. It’s there, you don’t need to believe it because you will experience it.”

GJKooijman on Twitter: “is mindblown” … “Still in awe of meeting James Cameron… Avatar will change movie industry forever.. thank you Jim” … “It’s nothing you can imagine, it’s real. Cameron made a new planet and took a cam there.” … “THIS WILL CHANGE MOVIES FOREVER. Trust me, it will.”

Sperling on Twitter: “It’s official! The footage from “Avatar” shown at Cine Expo was amazing. Absolutely stunning in 3D. Should be a huge hit.”

[Touchdown]

I don't think actors vote for directors and vice versa.

They announce how the voting is cast at one point in the ceremony, and they usually say "peers in their professional fields" etc. So SFX artists don't vote for best costume, etc.

Of course, that said, many actors are also directors... Eastwood, Hanks, Gibson, Redford, so possibly.

[hlthe2b]

53. We are talking "Best Picture"-- everyone gets to vote for that.

Thus, I believe what I said, applies. I suspect Cameron will have multiple millions $$$ of reasons to get over it...;)

[JackRiddler]

196. That remark just killed a whole suite of auteurs.

A billion-dollar CGI remake of Pocahantas Dances with Dune on Starwars with blue big-eyed stalk people and no depth is a directors' film? Gah.

BTW, out of that line-up, District 9 was the standout by far and the only one people might be watching in 10 years other than Basterds. The latter was a very entertaining extended joke, kind of like all of Tarantino, except for Jackie Brown, his best film and accordingly least successful one.

[HuckleB]

225. Nope.

It's just an entertaining special-effects pic.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

2. Or, IMHO Inglorious Basterds was far better than Hurt Locker.

[girl gone mad]

51. Of the ten that were up for it, IB was the best.

I wouldn't even call it close. Best acting, best direction, best cinematography, best writing, best characters, most original. It's the only one I think will stand the test of time.

[Codeine]

3. Avatar was a shitpile.

I mean Hurt Locker was pretty "meh", but damn -- Avatar was just bad.

[wtmusic]

6. Hurt Locker had not ONE 10-ft blue alien in it.

[jgraz]

12. Neither did Avatar.

They were 12-ft aliens. :P

[wtmusic]

67. That's probably why it lost.

:P

[johnaries]

16. Well, the REST of the world loved it, including me.

Yes, it was derivative, blah, blah, blah. But unlike many movies, it was a total immersion experience. It broke new ground.

Hell, even Roger Ebert praised it!

So, as for your opinion - *yawn*

I haven't seen Hurt Locker. I've heard both good and bad. I guess I'll have to see it now to make up my own mind.

[Odin2005]

26. The "Originality" cult hates the use of archetypal themes.

Too bad they are deluding themselves, a truly "original" story is EXTREMELY rare, nearly all stories are based on archetypal themes to some extent or another.

[Zomby Woof]

63. I love archetypical themes

'Don Quixote' alone supplies the framework for nearly half the stories out there. That makes archetypes something I enjoy, and enjoy looking for.

My problem with 'Avatar' (among many problems it has) was the shallowness of it, not because I didn't think it was 'original'. It had a good message, but deserved a deeper treatment.

It's just a gold statue. Cracks me up that people get their pants in a wad over the outcome. :rofl:

You'll have to find a better reason to explain your outrage at people like me who don't share your opinion about a movie.

[proteus_lives]

103. Archetypal themes are fine.

But Avatar had wooden acting, one-dimensional characters and the bare bones of said themes.

400 million on special effects, $18.75 on plot.

[Synicus Maximus]

239. Do you really think they spent that much on the script? I think it

was closer to $3.98.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

170. how about this: the acting was shitty, the plot trite and the pacing was choppy?

The lead actor couldn't even keep his American accent for the whole of the movie.

[Number23]

234. +5000 on the "trite plot" angle. If you didn't predict the end of Avatar 20 minutes into it

you just weren't trying.

[Political Heretic]

249. Who said the goal was to keep the audience from predicting the ending?

Not all movies are supposed to be about keeping you guessing?

[Political Heretic]

248. I love archetypal themes! I hate it when critics trash a movie only because it lacks "originaility"

Uh hello, there are many narratives and archetypes out there that I desire to see told and retold because I love them. And new angle on some old beloved themes is something I enjoy.

I also enjoy something truly original and out of the box, sometimes. Both kinds of film can be of high quality.

[Alexander]

140. Actually a lot of people didn't love it. Did you read this thread?

If you're talking about box office success, do you consider The Phantom Menace one of the best movies ever? That's #11 on the top-grossing movies of all time.

"Yes, it was derivative, blah, blah, blah."

It was a poor rehash of Dances With Wolves, Pocahontas and Ferngully with worse acting and writing.

"But unlike many movies, it was a total immersion experience. It broke new ground."

So if that's the point of this movie, why try to cram a ham-handed story into it? Why not just call it "Pandora", show some fictional world that looks like it ripped off a Roger Dean painting, and have people watch it in IMAX with 3D glasses without some bad plot and acting being thrown in?

"Hell, even Roger Ebert praised it!"

Oh yeah, I forgot. We're supposed to have no opinions of our own and just agree with whatever the critics say.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

175. Well if that is the standard, I guess "Twilight" is the best movie ever.

[Posteritatis]

193. I read books published by Baen but the idea of their getting a Hugo would usually horrify me. (nt)

[walldude]

190. LMAO Typical internet crap... Avatar may not have been your cup of tea

but a shitpile? Not even close. I had this same debate yesterday with a kid on a music site who claimed that the Beatles sucked. Yeah right. I just love how when someone dislikes something their ego is so fucking huge that they think their opinion is the final word. Avatar was not a shitpile. Anyone who works in the industry will tell you that James Cameron is a complete bastard and impossible to root for in any context, but he changed the face of filmmaking with this movie and steered the future of film in a new direction, much like sound and color did in the past. His accomplishment cannot be denied.

[scubadude]

242. I have a right wing buddy whose life was changed by Avatar, for the better..

We'll see if it sticks, but even for someone to say after seeing a film is simply amazing...

[KingFlorez]

4. I agree

Avatar was definitely the best of the year.

[Electric Monk]

9. Lots of upset posters on iMDB too

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/board

Imho it was a coinflip between Avatar and The Hurt Locker. They are both really solid movies.

[Subdivisions]

10. Avatar is a good film. However, it is a commercial film more than

it is and artists film. Granted, I haven't seen Hurt Locker, but apparently there weren't many finaciers in Hollywood clamoring to make it, which is probably because they didn't see it as commercially viable.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. The politics of war outdoes the politics of environment

I'll bet that's a big part of it.

[Initech]

14. If that's the case I would have picked Inglourious Basterds.

I love Tarantino's alternate history take on WWII.

[liberalhistorian]

55. IB was an offensive piece of shit,

just like all Quinten Tarantino movies. I was thrilled to death that he didn't get a damned thing himself and the supporting actor win wasn't even deserved. Now I wish Tarantino would just go crawl under a rock and not emerge with any more total pieces of overrated shit for at least another fifty years.

[Big Orange Jeff]

99. So why in the world do you keep watching his films?

[reflection]

108. QT aside,

I thought Christopher Waltz was simply amazing in IB. He made me feel as if I were the one being interrogated. Solid win for supporting actor.

[Rebubula]

111. Duly noted...

...and ignored.

The best supporting actor win was well deserved.

You know...all you have to do is NOT WATCH THINGS THAT YOU DO NOT LIKE! That was you can remain pious about the situation without looking like an asshole.

[dionysus]

141. wow, someone's quite bitter about Tarantino's success. I'll go watch pulp fiction now...

[liberalhistorian]

244. Oh, yeah, he was REAL successful last night.,

LOL. He took home SO many awards. So disliking someone's work means you're "bitter" about their success? LOL. Since art is subjective based on the likes, dislikes, opinions and feelings of an individual, I'd imagine there are some successful producers/actors/writers whose work YOU dislike. And that's fine, people have the right to like and dislike what they choose and should be able to do so without being called all kinds of names for it. Really, why do you or anyone else give a shit about what I think or anyone else thinks about what you like or dislike? QT makes the same fucking movies over and over, nothing but glorification of blood and guts. And I'm not too keen on historical distortions, either.

And the reason I've suffered through his shit is because I have a close family member who wants to see them but doesn't want to go alone.

[EOTE]

143. You didn't think Christoph Waltz's win was deserved?

I thought he was far and away the best in his field. And if you hate Quentin Tarantino's movies so much, why on earth do you punish yourself by continuing to see them?

[dionysus]

146. something to sob over on teh interwebs?

:shrug:

[EOTE]

149. Deleted.

Sorry, I thought you were the poster I responded to. My bad.

[JackRiddler]

202. Not really.

It was a glorious cartoon ham role, like the rest of the parts in that movie. He was perfect for it.

[zappaman]

52. Truly

that is the most ridiculous statement I have seen.
I hate war and loved HURT LOCKER.
I am doing everything I personally can to reduce my carbon footprint and I though AVATAR was a piece of shit.
Get off your high horse and realize that just because war is bad, it doesn't mean all movies that deal with war are bad or, even worse as you infer, that all movies that deal with war are pro-war.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[begin_within]

13. Films "peak" in Hollywood and I think that "Hurt Locker" peaked at the right moment

I haven't seen it so I can't comments on the merits of the film but I think that may be why. Could be 6 months from now some of them might think again which one they should have voted for.

[liberalhistorian]

I have been wanting to see Hurt Locker for some

time, but was disappointed to see that it wasn't shown anywhere in my mostly rural state that I could find; not even in the few cities. I could have missed a listing, true, but I don't think so.

[MadBadger]

17. Could be the only thing you and I agree on.

[proteus_lives]

18. Great decision.

Avatar sucked.

Unoriginal plot, one-dimensional characters and wooden acting.

Hurt Locker was a powerful film and deserved it's win.

[Better Believe It]

19. The Hurt Locker as Propaganda: An effective Army recruiting vehicle

The Hurt Locker as Propaganda
For a supposedly anti-war film, Kathryn Bigelow's Hurt Locker serves as a remarkably effective military recruiting tool.
By Tara McKelvey
July 17, 2009

The Hurt Locker shows the paranoia, rage, and brutal recklessness of soldiers trapped in the downward death spiral of the Iraq war: Insurgents used IEDs in a diabolical fashion so that all Iraqis seemed complicit in the violence, particularly since many were aware of the location of the bombs. Yet the bystanders said nothing -- most likely because they feared reprisals from the insurgent leaders -- and, consequently, the American soldiers turned with a vengeance on the very people they had once attempted to liberate.

The Hurt Locker sets itself up as am anti-war film. It opens with a quote, "War is a drug," from Chris Hedges, a Nation Institute senior fellow and author of War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning. Yet for more than two hours, the film imbues Baghdad's combat zone with excitement and drama. In one scene, a bomb-defuser, Staff Sgt. William James (Jeremy Renner), searches for a detonator in a car loaded with explosives, and later he tries to save an unfortunate Iraqi man who has been forcibly strapped with homemade bombs. The tense moments are set to creepily compelling music selected by composers Marco Beltrami (he did the scores for the Scream series) and Buck Sanders, and the cinematography captures the beauty that is found in the desert landscape and even in the casing of a bullet. It is easy to understand why the soldier, William James, would take so much pleasure in his work as a daredevil bomb-defuser in Iraq, and find so little to be happy about in the difficult, messy world of America when he comes home.

Back in the United States, James finds himself in a supermarket aisle, trying to decide between Lucky Charms and Cheerios. He stares at those brands and then at dozens of others on the shelves, feeling overwhelmed by the dizzying array of breakfast cereals, in a scene of American consumerism gone amuck. He then spends part of the day cleaning soggy leaves out of the gutter of his house. It is a dull, dreary world. A moment later, however, a soldier is shown striding down a wide, dusty Iraqi road in a NASA-like bomb suit, filled with a sense of purpose, courage, and even nobility that does not exist in suburban America.

The film draws a sharp contrast between the tedium of American life, with its grocery-shopping, home repairs, and vapid consumerism, and the heart-pounding drama of the combat zone in Iraq. The fact that the war itself seems to have little point fades into the background. For all the graphic violence, bloody explosions and, literally, human butchery that is shown in the film, The Hurt Locker is one of the most effective recruiting vehicles for the U.S. Army that I have seen.

Read the full review at:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_hurt_locker_as_propaganda

[Zomby Woof]

65. What a bullshit review

Holy shit, the person who wrote it knows nothing about the psychology of combat. The Amercan Prospect is really just as full of shit as The National Review, even if it's supposed to be progressive.

[11 Bravo]

104. Right, because nothing would make someone race down to their local recruiting office like ....

watching someone else who joined up get turned into grunt tartare.

[dionysus]

139. DING DING DING WE HAVE AH WINNAH!

:thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. I gues then Catch 22 and All Quiet on the Western Front

not to mention a few others of more recent making, are also propaganda films. I guess I should include Johnny Got His Gun in the propaganda category as well.

Oh and for those that need it... :sarcasm:

[JackRiddler]

191. Did Catch 22 depict war as the proving ground of the soul?

Was it about how Yossarian learned to master his fear and be a greater warrior for it? Hell no, his fear was a beautiful thing and it made him want to get the fuck out yesterday, not to say: "Oh, send me to bomb Bologna again! Flak makes me feel alive!"

Was "Johnny Got His Gun" about how exciting the actual war was, how alive it made him feel before he got his face and limbs blown off?

Please accept that the plot and the "message" are not always of essence.

In this movie (and in many, many others with a surface "antiwar" message) it's about the thrill ride, the rush. That's the big sell. The moment. Whatever dreadful fate awaits, that's just a short part of the movie, and it's not happening to you. You'll be among the survivors who got to look straight at death and came away.

What you're identifying with is not the corpse at the end, it's the warrior on "the drug."

Take a look at your Navy and AF recruitment ads. The Army ones are more about how you'll learn skills and get hired, blah blah, but Navy and AF are about dropping 10,000 feet in the dark and playing the world's biggest video games.

[nadinbrzezinski]

206. Actually if you think seeing somebody get screwed up

the way this guy did (which reflects A reality, talk to any combat soldier about how alive combat makes them)... then I guess we do not inhabit the same reality.

This was a commentary on that reality. Go ahead talk to combat soldiers... I have... hell I got my taste of it as well.

Perhaps that's why I got what this was about...

By the way comparing this to your average recruitment poster is so damn off the mark it ain't even funny. I mean unless you become a member of your local Sheriff's Department Bomb Squad, (there are a few EOD techs that do), tell me how marketable is to be an EOD tech? And yes, they are a little unhinged, worst than most others.

[Lautremont]

222. That's nutty.

It was clearly intended as tragic, not laudable, cool or glorious, that the character was so addicted to war - enough so that he has to leave his family behind for another tour of duty. The countdown supers should make this pretty obvious.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

160. You know what was a recruitment film? Avatar.

The bad guys 9-11ed our big tree. Join the army. Be a hero.

[JackRiddler]

189. I heartily agree.

But the blue Disney-eyed stick people were too stupid even for the Academy, and since they'd already rewarded that arrogant prick for having the highest grossing movie of all time 15 years ago, they could go with the more psychologically in-depth treatment of why the warrior, though it's a terrible and stupid thing in the big view, must nevertheless go to war, because that's the great proving ground of the soul.

[walldude]

217. LMFAO... So you do just post things to stir shit up..

Because anyone who saw Avatar as a pro-army movie, either didn't see the movie or has some really bad wiring.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

220. No, you're just seeing what you wanted to see.

The movie was pro-war as any other action movie. The hero joins the army, gets the girl, saves the day. Besides, even the "peace-loving Na'Vi" that some people love so much- half their fucking culture was a warrior caste.

[walldude]

254. Yeah I guess we saw 2 different movies...

I saw the hero lose his legs in the army, got re-assigned, turned against the army to stand up for the natives and didn't "save the day" but managed to keep some people alive. MAybe you missed the part where the army destroyed the neural network that binded the trees together and destroyed the most sacred place of worship the Navi had. Didn't look like much of a "victory" to me. LOoked like any other war for resources. They destroyed the most amazing resource to try to get at the one that would make them rich. Typical foolishness.

You take out of the movie what you took in. You apparently like the army hero worship thing so that's what you got out of it. Most people didn't.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

256. No, we saw the same stupid piece of shit movie.

"I saw the hero lose his legs in the army"

Right, but losing your legs when you join Army is no big deal. They give you a cool new body.

"turned against the army to stand up for the natives"

And joined, ney created a whole new army for himself. With dragons and shit.

"MAybe you missed the part where the army destroyed the neural network that binded the trees together and destroyed the most sacred place of worship the Navi had."

Not at all. That was a clear 9-11 analogy. The good guys have a great big tall phallic edifice. One day some bad guys show up and knock it down. There's a big cloud of dust. Lots of innocent good guy civilians wandering around crying, covered in dust. So what's a good guy to do? Why, rally a big jingoistic army and go and attack the bad guys.

"They destroyed the most amazing resource to try to get at the one that would make them rich."

Which was just a dumb plot device, to explain why the humans were attacking the big blue pretty smurfs.

"You apparently like the army hero worship thing so that's what you got out of it."

Actually, no. I didn't like the movie, and will not defend it. You, apparently, get a kick out of that stupid shit.

Did you know professional wrestling was fake? Just checking.

[Better Believe It]

241. A very good recruiter for the anti-war and environmental movements.

[panzerfaust]

192. To me this seems a well thought out editorial - I have NOT seen either movie

but I have seen the previews.

Thus, when I read that it looked as though 'best picture' would be between "Hurt Locker" and "Avatar" I recall thinking well - it depends upon if the War Machine, or the New Age better captures those doing the voting. The result is not terribly surprising to me.

Of interest, being perhaps a reflection on the values of those who made "Hurt Locker", is that an army bomb disposal technician with whom the screen writer was "embedded" alleges that the main character is simply based upon him - without his consent or recompense.

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2010/03/04/news/srv0000007741337.txt

An Army bomb disposal expert and former Harrison Township resident who served in the Iraq war is suing the makers of "The Hurt Locker," claiming the Oscar-nominated film's lead character is based on him and that they cheated him out of "financial participation" in the film.

Attorney Geoffrey Fieger said Wednesday that he filed the lawsuit in New Jersey federal court on behalf of Master Sgt. Jeffrey Sarver. He declined to specify how much money his client was seeking.

Sarver, of Clarksville, Tenn., claims screenwriter Mark Boal was embedded in his three-person unit and that the information he gathered was used in the film, Fieger said. The film is nominated for nine Academy Awards, including best original screenplay...

But, perhaps not though, as MSGT Sarver also

... says he coined the phrase "The Hurt Locker."

However, I recall the term "Hurt Locker" being quite commonly used in the USN/USMC in the 1960's. Conceptually, it was located next to the "Shit Locker" - another place one did not want to be.

[JackRiddler]

194. Did you see Saw VI?

You didn't, and yet I bet you have a well-founded opinion on it.

I submit that if you've been watching movies and TV all your life, see a trailer, and are familiar with the director, franchise and/or genre, you can figure out what a film and what you'll think about it for 95 percent of cases of Hollywood product and 90 percent of everything else. They can celebrate themselves as artists all they like, everyone knows that even the creative films consist of standardized parts rolling off a production line.

It is also your right to choose not to give money to it.

[panzerfaust]

210. Can't say as I have. But if it is another in the Texas Chain Saw Massacre

... series, you would be wrong: As it would not be worth having an opinion about. Well, guess that really is having an opinion, so you would be right :)

Made no claim of "well-founded opinion" - that's why made it clear that have not seen either - but that from what I did see, and I will now say what I did read, the one apparently glories in war, whilst the other is more of a touchy-feely sort.

Likely will see "Avatar" at some point, but "Hurt Locker" not ever. I saw enough of war in Viet-Nam to last me my days.

What do you make of the MSGT's claims?

Reading other articles, not just the one I linked to, there do seem to be a lot of similarities between the protagonist and he. If his claim is true (leaving aside the impossible claim of inventing the term "Hurt Locker") then it would seem that the makers of this movie do owe him a cut - if they simply stole part of his life story.

[NYC Liberal]

20. Nah. Avatar sucked. Of course, it's all opinion, but

between it and Hurt Locker, Hurt Locker was infinitely more deserving.

Personally, I was rooting for Up in the Air.

[DaveinMD]

22. yes

Up in the Air was great, as is almost everything Clooney does.

[NYC Liberal]

24. If A Single Man had been up, I'd have been really conflicted!

Up in the Air and Single Man were both amazing.

[DaveinMD]

30. never even heard of

Single Man.

[NYC Liberal]

34. You should check it out, it's a really good film with Colin Firth, Julianne Moore.

[DaveinMD]

37. I'll look into it

thanks.

[DaveinMD]

21. oh please

Avatar was pretty, but a putrid movie otherwise. Horrible acting, horrible screenplay.

[Odin2005]

23. Avatar is the best movie in a while. Fucking morons.

And I see the snobs have arrived to bash Avatar. :eyes:

[DaveinMD]

31. guess I'm a snob

awful movie. Pretty, but awful.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. No, but the "archetypal themes!"

:rofl:

Dances with Wolves FAIL.

:rofl:

[reflection]

110. I thought it was 'Pocahontas' in space,

but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Saw it twice with the kids.

[gmoney]

173. Wasn't it "Dances with Wolves" in space?

[reflection]

184. I read that elsewhere,

but it's been so long since I've seen DwW I couldn't comment. Pocahontas, however, had the same 'white man meets natives and serves as liaison/villain' subplot, as well as an appearance by the tree that oversees everything, so I thought it an apt comparison. :shrug:

[JackRiddler]

213. Actually it was "Dune" in... um, space.

But you could also go back to Moses and 100,000 variations ever since.

I am of you, but also an outsider from the land of the bad king. I am destined to save you! I must become like you, and advance to Level 5 Hero by undergoing the tests and visions. Your prophecy has foreseen me! I lead you now to victory, for our just cause is greater than the Pharoah's machines!

[reflection]

250. This youtube clip is worth a watch...

It's Avatar and Pocahontas side by side...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOCodaM4UM

:D

[JackRiddler]

251. Nice! Here's one that does Avatar as Dune (near 100% correspondence)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9bsHAXwaEE

[reflection]

253. Heh. I love it.

Apparently the movie does have, er, archetypal themes... :D

[JackRiddler]

255. Archetypal themes are great (as someone said above)...

Three hours of Disney-eyed, elongated Smurfs, earnest Space Marines and ultra-big explosions, not so much.

With that material, the assurance that super-CGI 3D means YOU... ARE... THERE! comes across more as threat than promise.

Given how commerce dominates Hollywood, I'm often astounded by the lengths the studios allow for these kinds of trifles. Stupid + self-indulgence is a bad formula. Don't they like faster turnover? Or have they calculated that they need the blockbusters to take up more time, since other material is thought paltry (commercially if not always artistically)?

[Regret My New Name]

42. I haven't seen it but I think it sucks...

because I'm a snob and it seems like the snobby thing to do. ;)

[proteus_lives]

45. Yeah, I'm a snob...

I like good acting and characters that aren't one-dimensional.

Now excuse me, I'm off to clean my monocle and top hat.

[Better Believe It]

112. Going off to a wine tasting I suppose. Are you Niles Craine?

[proteus_lives]

154. I love that show.

Frasier ruled.

[EOTE]

147. Have you seen it yet?

Or are you still lambasting a film that you know little or nothing about?

[proteus_lives]

155. Yes, I've seen it.

And it sucked.

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. Well I admit it, I WATCHED Avatar for the special effects

not the acting.

The acting was ahem quite sucky.

[geardaddy]

209. LMAO

Don't forget your walking stick!

[NM_hemilover]

130. Written by infants, good 3D to watch stoned though.

[dionysus]

135. this will ease the pain;

[SemiCharmedQuark]

172. Ah yes, everyone that expects more than 'splosions in a movie must be a snob.

[Richardo]

25. Give it a rest

"Army recruiting film" Jesus.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

32. Don't you love these ignoramuses?

They've never seen the movie but assume that a war movie is automatically pro-war.

[cliffordu]

27. Ah, yes more utter bullshit from someone who's never seen

the film.

Fail.

[Better Believe It]

114. I and my wife saw the film over Comcast on demand yesterday before the awards show.

We thought the film was well done, but hardly award winning material. We wondered why in the world it even was nominated.

It has the usual shot-em-up, blow-em-up scenes for a war film. Nothing special. In terms of plot we how bad those Iraqi's are who won't help "our" soldiers occupy Iraq. Why they even shoot at the GI's who are in Iraq to help those poor people.

Some gung ho young kid out of high school without a job might want to join the military. They also can become an American hero and help those Iraq's just like that bomb expert who was bored and decided to go back to Iraq for a little excitement, adventure and meaning in life.

We're glad we didn't spend the money to see it in a theater and waited for it to come out "on-demand".

[cliffordu]

151. Shoulda waited until it showed up on ABC, then you'd pay nothing.

[proteus_lives]

162. Wow, the point of the movie went completely over your head.

Too bad you watched the movie but didn't pay attention.

[Captain Hilts]

28. It's obvious you haven't seen The Hurt Locker. It's not what you think it is at all. nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

29. I'm sure the scene where an Iraqi child is disemboweled will help recruitment.

Idiot.

[Regret My New Name]

39. Love the wonderful debates this place has sometimes...

(I disagree with the OP, btw)

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. The best part is that half the people suggest Inglorious Basterds as an alternative

A film that actually DOES glorify war and violence!

It's fucking unbelievable.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

43. No kidding.

:rofl:

[PM Martin]

50. Forbid anything Quentin makes gets any award. Inglorious Basterds

belonged on the cutting room floor.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Inglorious Basterds had two good scenes, maybe three

They were:

The conversation between the Hans Landa and the French farmer.
The conversation between Hans Landa and Shoshanna Dreyfus.
The bar scene.

That's it. So, in this sense, it won the award it should have won: Best Supporting Actor for Christoph Waltz, who played Hans Landa and basically provided the only real good parts of the film with an extraordinary performance.

[cali]

78. you're exactly right.

it sucked. And I think Tarentino is a crashing bore.

[Political Heretic]

85. I agree with this. I was surprised it was treated so favorably.

I guess maybe those scenes seemed so strong in the opinion of some as to prop up the rest of the picture for an award. Not in my book.

[DevonRex]

152. I agree with you. It was a disappointing film except for the Hans Landa

character. It felt disjointed to me. And it bored me for the most part. And I absolutely HATED watching the forehead carving.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

163. You're forgetting the Churchilll scene.

The montage explaining the back story of a couple of the Basterds.

And the scene in the theater lobby where Christoph Waltz's performance really shines.

Those were all great scenes.

And that's about 90% of the movie.

[alcibiades_mystery]

186. I didn't forget them

...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

204. The Churchill scene was not only the best scene in the movie...

but the best scene of any movie the whole year.

[alcibiades_mystery]

214. ROFL

Yeokay.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

218. Maybe it needed more exploding cars and tits?

[alcibiades_mystery]

223. We get it

You really really liked it. Congratulations.

[Political Heretic]

84. It's fucking mind boggling isn't it? I swear the collective IQ of this community drops annually.

Get out while you can.... I'm addicted to the brain numbing insanity, getting dumber by the year :)

[JackRiddler]

198. Actually, IB was the only real cartoon up for an award.

Do you think anyone saw it and said, "wow - war is such a drug!"

Bugs Bunny vs. The Gremlins was more of a recruitment film than that. It was part revenge fantasy, part WW2 exploitation revival, and part fuck-you to history. Especially film history. Most importantly: When did it take itself seriously? When the Giant Face appeared to kill Hitler?

[merh]

33. I disagree - Avatar was just another Disney type movie

Think Pocahontas meets the smurfs. It might have been a visually pleasing movie but the story line was trite and the characters 2 dimensional.

I think the Hurt Locker was another war movie that shows there is no glory in war.

[Codeine]

36. "Pocahontas meets The Smurfs"

:rofl:

Wow, you concisely boiled it down to four words -- masterful! :evilgrin: :yourock:

[merh]

49. I kept waiting for PaPa smurf to show up.

<<<<<< avatar wave

[Bolo Boffin]

68. That's the sequel.

Mama Smurf, though - Sigourney Weaver's character.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. ROFL

Who could have known how dumb this night would turn out.

[Regret My New Name]

41. I don't think The Hurt Locker was propaganda...

If anything, it seemed to have shown how fucked up war is and how it fucks with people. I tend to think the movie was a bit over the top in some places, but hey, it's a movie and it's supposed to be entertaining. I suppose if I wanted reality then I could watch a documentary on it.

[harun]

203. All art is propaganda

http://www.amazon.com/All-Art-Propaganda-Critical-Essays/dp/0151013551

[proteus_lives]

44. Did you even see Hurt Locker?

If you did, the point of the film went completely over your head.

And Avatar sucked. Unoriginal script, wooden acting and one-dimensional characters.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

46. The "Best movie" this year was probably one of the other ones

And you'll all discover it whenever it comes out on DVD or cable.

Just like "The Shawshank Redemption" back in '94.

[dysfunctional press]

47. "Army recruiting vehicle"??? either you're insane, or you haven't seen the film.

if anything, it made me even angrier about the iraq war crime against humanity, something i wouldn't have thought possible. we watched the movie this afternoon- except for 'precious', it was the only nominee we hadn't seen. i personally thought avatar would/should have won- i even enjoyed 'district 9' more than 'the hurt locker'- which only served to make me angry...and in that sense, it definitely elicited a more emotional response than any of the other films(although i have yet to see precious, which looks fantastic). i can understand it winning- but it wouldn't be my pick.

[donheld]

48. Are you pouting?

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. Some of the crybabies seem drunk

Oscar party went too far maybe.

[Codeine]

58. Nerdrage is the most powerful intoxicant of all. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. Nerdrage!

Love it

:rofl:

[Zomby Woof]

57. 'Avatar' was a shallow flim-flam

Sure, the message is great, but peel away the considerable spectacle (and how!), and you are left with a very superficial treatment of a very serious message. Unobtanium? Really? It debases the message by making it a shallow cartoon, albeit a very pretty cartoon.

Ia m sick of effects-saturated films with no soul. All that spectacle and busyness on the screen. It's like a fucking narcotic.

[upi402]

59. Avatar yes! Army bomb expert suing Hurt Locker makers for rights to his story

The Army bomb demolition specialist is suing the filmmakers, says the thing was from his life. He coined the term. WTF?
:popcorn:
Avatar targets an audience that needs to get its message. Not the sophisticated art house viewers.

[Emillereid]

60. I agree! Avatar was an iconic myth making movie that was both anti-war and

green. It was also a total immersion experience. I personally think it's classic story was fitting -- it wasn't a character drama after all. Like Star Wars before it -- it was the myth shaping story of our time - Empire/Corporations not only against the people but the earth itself. It also blasted the movie experience into the stratosphere. Too bad it lost.

[Codeine]

62. "Like Star Wars before it. . ."

And I can say - as a huge, lifelong Star Wars nerd - neither of those films were Best Picture material.

[dysfunctional press]

74. but- "Like star wars before it..."

avatar will be remembered a LOT longer than the hurt locker. and obviously hurt locker will never catch up at the box office.

[Alexander]

128. That's true

Avatar will be remembered for all the embarrassing James Cameron fanboys who thought "This is teh best movie EVER!1!!!" and who like to ignore things like writing and acting.

Obviously a movie is good just because it makes money. Holey moley, is this how we measure movie quality now? :eyes:

[fishwax]

64. I thought The Hurt Locker was overrated

But I also don't think Avatar should have won for best picture -- it deserved the technical awards it received, though.

[MadBadger]

66. I agree with the first part. I only saw four movies though and Avatar was my favq

The others were The Hurt Locker, Up in the Air, and Inglorious Basterds. Loved the Terds and Avatar. Thought Up in the Air was a decent movie and the same as the Hurt locker, just didnt understand the hype surrounding the two.

[fishwax]

69. I haven't seen Up in the Air yet, but

none of the clips they showed throughout the ceremony made it seem at all appealing. I'll watch it eventually, I'm sure, but I'm not really in a rush ...

[slampoet]

70. I liked the original of Avatar when it was called "Little Big Man"

[JackRiddler]

201. Or Dune. Or Dances With Wolves. Or "the hero story" per Joseph Campbell.

Though "Little Big Man" was one of the greatest ever. Did it win an Oscar? Ha ha.

[Kerrytravelers]

71. I think Cameron is gifted in terms of the technical aspect of film, and I like the idea of his films

but I think his storytelling capabilities are lacking. One dimensional characters, predictable, etc. That's my personal opinion, of course, but I've always felt this way. I hated Titanic with a white-hot passion (it was Romeo and Juliet on a boat, with bad writing) and was bored to tears with Avatar. I liked the message of Avatar, but I was just bored. I don't think there was a huge injustice done tonight. I felt that way when Brokeback Mountain didn't win, and I felt that way when Titanic won. Tonight, the awards were spread around pretty evenly and really, there was nothing but an embarrassment of riches. Some of my personal preferences didn't win (Colin Firth) but I still think it was a great award season overall. With so many great performances and films, I really had a lot of favorites there tonight.

[flamingdem]

73. Terminator was great

It's a rush to watch a Cameron film, I think he's a genius. Hurt Locker was mindblowing up until half way through when it just did not expand and become a bigger story, a more complex story. When he heads back to war that did not seem realistic, but maybe some bomb boyz do that..

[MissMarple]

75. Ermmm...I had Avatar at number 3. I am so sorry. And I have read a HUGE amount of science fiction.

Huge...since the 60's. It is classic sci fi with great new technology. It was great. Personally, however, I'd put Alien before it. Sci fi has always been difficult to translate to film. They did a wonderful job with Avatar, no doubt.

[Ferret Annica]

76. Avatar is a great film, I agree it should have won.

No matter, one of the next sequels will do so.

[cali]

77. Avatar was a horrendous piece of shit.

not that i really give a shit which pic won.

[name not needed]

79. Cry more. You'll feel better.

[Skittles]

81. whiny little shit

yes

[name not needed]

82. i'm not about to get my ass kicked, am i?

:D

[Skittles]

89. not you, silly; the OP

unless you WANT your ass kicked. Hey, you DO, DON'T you? I WILL KICK NAME NOT NEEDED ASS; yes indeed!

[Skittles]

80. what a fucking bunch of bullshit

Hurt Locker is a superior movie - get the fuck over it

[Political Heretic]

86. God, thank you for sanity.

You should rename yourself Touchstone.

[Better Believe It]

119. Few people went to see Hurt Locker in the theaters. Now I understand why.

Private Ryan was a terrific and powerful movie that wasn't anti-war but showed how brutal war is. Few people went to see Hurt Locker. Watching it at home early Sunday I now understand why.

[Skittles]

230. well it's a good thing you're not the one deciding

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

233. Saving Private Ryan also sucked.

Damn, are you a Uwe Boll fan?

[Political Heretic]

83. How was The Hurt Locker propaganda? I found nothing "glorifying" in the film.

In fact, thought the movie took a lot of heat from the right?

[Skittles]

90. Hurt Locker wasn't propaganda at all

disconcerting to see so many deluded DUers. Cannot comment on Basterds; the trailer just did not appeal enough for me to see the movie.

[panzerfaust]

211. Did you read the article the OP linked to?

It is pretty well laid out there.

[malaise]

87. Would you join the army after seeing The Hurt Locker?

:shrug:

[Better Believe It]

116. I'm not some bored, out of work kid fresh out of high school who doesn't understand the Iraq war..

So the answer is no.

[ButterflyBlood]

157. I'm sure kids right of high school would love to join after seeing it

The thought of possibly getting blown up by bombs at every corner, being stranded and stuck in a dangerous cat and mouse type sniper battle where they could die with any wrong move, having to possibly meet children they've befriended dead and disembowled, or watch innocent civilians helplessly blown up before their eyes, and to top all off ending up so out of it they can't live in real society anymore and even do something as simple as shop in the supermarket with their kid REALLY puts such a romantic face on war. Anyone watching that is going to sign up immediately!

[shockra]

88. They're all military propaganda!

Operation Hollywood: How the Pentagon Shapes and Censors the Movies

http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/09/operation-hollywood

[happy_liberal]

197. Militainment is a really good video on the subject

nt

[BulletproofLandshark]

91. The Academy won't allow a science fiction film to win Best Picture.

I'm not saying that Avatar deserved to win though.

[RadiationTherapy]

92. Any team who is so uncreative as to create 'UNOBTAINIUM' deserves to win nothing.

Not to mention the rest of Avatar was a meathead explosogasm. Even the 'spirituality' of the naavi and their planet was hokey to the extreme.

[NM_hemilover]

129. Spent all the money on effects, instead wrote "Ishtar 2010".

Seemed like somebody had a fantastic idea with the "Avatar's" themselves, but then spent all the money on effects and forgot to write a fricking story. Instead splattered together a bunch of weak characters, with a weak storyline, and pasted a few "daisycutter" type comments to fake some sort of relevancy.

The special effects deserved to win an award, they were fantastic, but thats it.

I was so ready for a creative, new, unexplored science fiction adventure. Instead it was weak, watered down and as ordinary, predictable and common as talking heads news commentary blather. I give the movie a zero, except for the effects, they were a 10.

[JTFrog]

93. Must suck to be so wrong all the time. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

94. Precious should have won.

Avatar is eye candy, if you're into over-the-top special effects disguising a trite and lightweight storyline.

[CBR]

95. I liked District 9 the best so I am probably considered a complete

moron... It is just movies.

[Frank Cannon]

98. So did I. District 9 was edgy, had a good story, and was technically excellent.

But I tend to take the Oscars with a grain of salt.

[Strelnikov_]

101. Agree. My vote is for D9

Best sci-fi movie in years.

[Umbral]

124. Not at all, District 9 was a much better movie than Avatar.

And the subtitles weren't nearly as annoying as they were in Inglorious Basterds.

[HuckleB]

228. District 9 was fantastic!

Much better than Avatar!

[Political Heretic]

246. I hated District 9, and I was expecting to love it.

Very disappointing.

[dugaresa]

96. Avatar was a ripoff of Dances with Wolves but staged on an alien planet

great effects and not a bad picture but a rip off nonetheless.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

122. I think it's ALOT closer to Pochahontas. It's nearly laughable. (see reference)

[dugaresa]

136. bwahahahahahaha!

that is so funny and yet so true.

[CBR]

144. That is funny... there is also a good youtube vid of the Avatar screenplay

with the Ferngully animation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-SVpZrnF34

[Number23]

235. That is SO Funny!! Cute!

:rofl:

[Vickers]

97. Wait...you think people will enlist after seeing "The Hurt Locker" ???

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Whatever, dude!

[CBGLuthier]

100. Up was better than either of them.

At least it won for score over the usual shitty classical ripoff work of Zimmer and Horner.

[customerserviceguy]

106. I saw that this weekend

and it really was a great film! It's a good thing that there is a separate animation category, because the Oscar people really don't like to give Best Picture to those films.

[ctaylors6]

126. I thought UP was the best movie I've seen in years, not just this year nt

[Dr. Strange]

131. UP is clearly a propaganda piece for the balloon industry.

Come on people, we're supposed to be PROGRESSIVES here!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

174. LOL!

Good one!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

102. Um... since Avatar was garbage let's pick one of the remaining 8

Honoring a bad film because one doesn't another film seems a tad constrained.

[customerserviceguy]

105. I was fortunate enough to have seen Hurt Locker

yesterday afternoon, just before the Oscar show (it was at Redbox already), and while it is a powerful film, it shares one thing with last year's Best Picture: no acting performances in the twenty nomination slots for those awards.

I guess you could say the same thing about Avitar, as well.

[fishwax]

123. actually, Jeremy Renner was nominated for Best Male Lead

[alcibiades_mystery]

134. Fact Fail

Jeremy Renner was nominated for Performance by an Actor in a Leading Role (i.e., Best Actor).

[customerserviceguy]

227. I stand corrected

I knew Bridges was going to win the category, I must have gotten up to refill my beer at that point!

(which should provide another clue as to why I did a fact fail).

[WeDidIt]

107. Avatar was predictable. It was Dances with Wolves In Space

The Hurt Locker deserved it, hands down.

[Scout]

109. no way was Avatar deserving of best picture.

great special effects, yes, but the story was thin and derivative, the acting not really all that challenging.

[piratefish08]

113. Hurt Locker was by far the better film and while not exactly anti-war

it certainly didn't glorify it in any way.......

I wouldn't call it a recruiting tool.

[wiggs]

120. I thought it was very anti-war. Pro-soldier...but it shows a tiny piece of war

and that piece was hell for everyone. It got to each of the three main characters in different but equally devastating ways.

Loved avatar...saw it three times, and I don't have a big problem with the voting. Doubt the voting members are right-leaning.

[dionysus]

137. yeah, to call it a recruiting tool is the height of idiocy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. You did watch the Hurt Locker... if you did not

(most likely) you'd understand how much MORE propaganda for Mercs Avatar actually is.

(Yes I watched both, and both have strong social messages... but sub rosa the Hurt Locker IS AN ANTI WAR MOVIE... get it now? Avatar actually celebrates, to a point, Mercs.)

[truebrit71]

118. Tarentino is a talentless hack, Cameron is a self-important bore..

..glad the first female director in Academy history finally won..

As to the rest of it, just a bunch of rich people, congratulating other rich people on how fabulous they are..Meh...

[Tailormyst]

121. I loved Avatar- It was a work of beauty

I have not seen Hurt Locker but am looking forward to it. People get so incredibly worked up over these things. It seems to me that I might love BOTH films for very different, but just as valid reasons.

[tammywammy]

125. Apparently the meaningless choice of "Best Picture" rules some people's lives

I don't get it. Who cares what some actors think is the best movie? I really don't understand why people get so worked up over a stupid awards ceremony, unless you're involved in it.

:shrug:

[Alexander]

127. Wow, you Avatar lovers sure are sensitive about this bad movie.

Could it be that the movie is bad and you know it, but the CGI distracted you into thinking it was a halfway decent movie?

Christ, do people just not care about acting and writing any more? I half expect to see DUers defend Star Wars Episodes I through III next. That had pretty CGI, too.

The same story was told in Ferngully, Pocahontas and Dances With Wolves. Except it was done very well in those movies.

If any movie deserved to win that didn't, it was District 9. They had fancy CGI and good acting and writing. Imagine that!

[dionysus]

132. how the hell is hurt locker a recruiting tool? the soldiers were miserable, got blown to bits or

killed... or suffered PTSD...

except for the adrenaline junkie, who was fucked up and also miserable...

you really are daft as a rock.

[alcibiades_mystery]

138. The adrenaline junky who can't handle a supermarket or spend time with his own kid

Yes, quite the recruiting tool, that.

:wow:

The contortions that the fanboys will do on this point are remarkably stupid.

[Jennicut]

150. Seriously. Just because it had no overt political statements didn't mean it was pro-war.

If anything, it showed what effects war has on soldiers and it ain't pretty.

[Hepburn]

133. Until last evening....

...I had never heard of that picture. :shrug:

[npk]

142. Avatar was all style over substance

Like most on Cameron's movies. The right movie won.

[fatbuckel]

145. Avatar is a video game

[bridgit]

148. Avatar is a recruiting vehicle

[upi402]

153. James Cameron is a true liberal

I saw him interviewed on The Actors Studio. He's a lifelong liberal.
The Hurt Locker was a stolen life story from the bomb specialist who they followed. The guy coined the term 'hurt locker' and is suing the filmmakers. I don't care about gender. Iraq war hype trumping a needed message targeting a group that should think about things - needs to be celebrated and acknowledged.

Boycott that phony awards charade from now on. Meryl Streep kicked ass as Julia Childs too. What a joke.

[4lbs]

183. And James Cameron was lobbying for The Hurt Locker. He wanted it to win best picture, and Kathryn

Bigelow to win best director.

Ooops!

[Cleita]

158. I didn't see "Hurt Locker", but " Avatar" was pretty anti-military and

anti-industrial complex. Could that have had something to do with it? Traditionally Hollywood is pretty liberal in its political views so maybe "Hurt Locker" got the award for no other reason than that it was a better movie.

:shrug:

[cali]

169. Avatar was a silly celebration of violence

and movie about the white man saving the naive natives. Hurt Locker was indeed a better movie- by a long shot.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

159. Avatar was a shit film.

A bad story with bad actors reciting a bad script, and why? To showcase their new special effects technology.

And that special effects technology wasn't that good.

Oh sure, 3D looked OK for about 30 minutes, and then it got boring. You pretty much forgot it was 3D after that point, except when they shot arrows at you or had spears sticking out of people, which was just the same dumb 3D gimmicks they were using back in the sixties. And you know what? Shallow focus does not work in 3D. And why make a movie if you have to stay in deep focus the whole damn time? This movie is one step forward and two steps back.

It didn't even deserve the cinematography Oscar.

[kgnu_fan]

161. Oscar is overrated

We give importance to it too much.... It was an entertainment but when it is over, I don't care.

[JackRiddler]

164. "The Hurt Locker" was the US version of the movie Hitler was watching in "Inglorious Basterds."

Watching last night, I kept expecting "The Revenge of The Giant Face" to appear over the stage and announce:

"I HAVE A MESSAGE FOR GERMANY!"

And Sandra Bullock? As a football mom?! Over that competition?! To her credit, she's the first winner I ever saw who was visibly embarrassed to undeservedly step up to the stage. But her movie fits the same theme: Send your warriors out to victory, o mothers!

At least they gave The Dude his equivalent of a Lifetime Achievement award.

That was an ode to military recruitment. A movie that starts with a quote about what a great drug war is? It would have never won if Bush were still president, but now that Obama's ordering the "surges," it's okay.

(But while you're at it: Avatar? With the Blue Disney-Eyed Stalk People reenacting Dances with Dune on Starwars? Come on. Even its FX prize was bought. District 9 had the most disturbing effects ever. Divide by the respective film budgets, and it was about 14,000 times more effective.)

[Bicoastal]

166. Wait, did anyone go to war in "The Blind Side?"

I think your disappointment with the Oscars is causing you to overdose on hyperbole.

[JackRiddler]

185. You're right, there's no relation between football and war

Go, my son. Prove yourself!

[cali]

171. did you actually see Hurt Locker?

Agree with you about Avatar and District 9 though.

[JackRiddler]

215. Trailer + knowledge of genre + familiarity with director + read about it + NPR campaign

The last was endless.

I'm not paying $11 (or $22, actually) to the industry for this. I can also tell you what's in Saw VI, or Indiana Jones, without having to see them.

However, it's in the queue. I do have an interest in the popular mythmaking machine.

Out of curiousity: what did you think of Platoon?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

178. Wrong -- the quote was from Iraq-war critic Chris Hedges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hedges#Biography

[JackRiddler]

187. dupe sorry

[JackRiddler]

188. And so?

Hedges:

"The rush of battle is often a potent and lethal addiction, for war is a drug."

The impact of words varies by context, often independently of intent. At this point half of the military recruitment pitch is that it will help you get a good job afterwards, and the other half is that "war is a drug." Look at the Navy and AF ads especially: get cool gear, parachute invisibly, run the world's greatest video game from a huge console in the safety of a base hundreds of miles away.

Many films with surface messages decrying the horror of war nevertheless, not always with intent, sell the experience of war as an awesome rush.

Ebert:

"Bigelow and Boal know what they’re doing. This movie embeds itself in a man’s mind. When it’s over, nothing has been said in so many words, but we have a pretty clear idea of why James needs to defuse bombs. I’m going to risk putting it this way: (1) bombs need to be defused; (2) nobody does it better than James; (3) he knows exactly how good he is, and (4) when he’s at work, an intensity of focus and exhilaration consumes him, and he’s in that heedless zone when an artist loses track of self and time."

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090708/REVIEWS/907089997

If the message is that war also happens to be a really stupid, pointless waste of life, that's a peripheral matter to the film's essence, which is in the experience.

A movie in which the native population targeted by an invasion appears as extras, while we examine the deep psychological contradictions of the ambivalent but professional warriors, etc etc, it's been done many times before, from Apocalypse Now to Platoon and Hamburger Hill to the more recent Jarhead.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

216. You still haven't explained why it's pro-recruitment.

Was it the scene where the Iraqi child was disemboweled? Or the one where the sergeant questioned why they were there? Or the random, sudden deaths of their compatriots?

[JackRiddler]

219. Ebert does

Ebert:

"Bigelow and Boal know what they’re doing. This movie embeds itself in a man’s mind. When it’s over, nothing has been said in so many words, but we have a pretty clear idea of why James needs to defuse bombs. I’m going to risk putting it this way: (1) bombs need to be defused; (2) nobody does it better than James; (3) he knows exactly how good he is, and (4) when he’s at work, an intensity of focus and exhilaration consumes him, and he’s in that heedless zone when an artist loses track of self and time."

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090708/REVIEWS/907089997

[Starbucks Anarchist]

224. Wrong again:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/07/not_how_the_army_would_fight_aliens.html

"The Hurt Locker" is completely apolitical. It has no opinion on the war in Iraq, except that there is one, and brave men like James and Sanborn are necessary, and rookies like Eldridge of course are sometimes terrified, and will get no quicker sympathy than from veterans like Sanborn and James. In that sense, "The Hurt Locker" is arguably the most pro-Army feature to emerge from the war. Pro-Army, not pro-war. But the U.S. military declined to assist in its production or allow the film on a U.S. base, and the Bigelow team shot with its own resources in Jordan, sometimes within three miles of the Iraqi border. It was not an easy shoot. Renner speaks of boards with nails in them being dropped on them from rooftops, and he was shot at more than once.

And I see you mentioned upthread you haven't even seen the movie, which makes your opinion virtually worthless.

[JackRiddler]

229. "Completely apolitical" doesn't exist when you've been raping Iraq for 20 years.

Read what I quoted again, there was a reason. That's the essence as a good film critic captures it: making you feel into the experience of a man who MUST be there, for whom it is a drug, for whom the larger political questions are secondary.

There is no "completely apolitical" way to make a Hollywood movie about an American war crime. You can be for the people under attack, or you can be for the invaders.

A movie in which the native population targeted by an invasion appear as extras, enemies and victims, while we examine the deep psychological contradictions of the ambivalent but professional US warriors, etc etc, it's been done many times before, from Apocalypse Now (which is great, at least) to Platoon and Hamburger Hill to the more recent Jarhead. If the main focus is understanding the US soldier, it is effectively an apologetic for the crimes of his government.

If the nominal "message" is that war also happens to be a really stupid, pointless waste of life, as delivered by the same old grizzled sergeant who's seen too much, that's a peripheral matter to the film's essence, which is in the felt experience.

The US propaganda approach, in contrast to classic totalitarian societies, is to be "apolitical" and present "complexity" and "depth," "many sides" to the story. It's a way to let the politics be implicit. I don't have to watch every cheap horror film to know it's crap, and I don't have to pay extra for propaganda when I know it's propaganda. It's in the queue, so Netflix can pay them 30 cents or whatever when I receive it. Who knows, maybe I'll think it's a great film when I see it, but it will still be propaganda for the same reasons.

I saw the director accepting the award and thanking "our men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan."

I didn't see her say a word about a million dead and millions more driven from their homes, a country in ruins, generations yet to be born deformed and in misery thanks to the US-UK launching of aggressive war in Iraq, with the criminals still free and prospering as always.

[JackRiddler]

237. Oh, and by the way... as for being required to see the movie to have an opinion... (SPOILERS)

Are there ways nowadays to know about a movie without paying to support something you don't wish to support?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hurt_Locker#Plot

During the early stages of the post-invasion period in Iraq in 2004,<12><13> Sergeant First Class William James, a battle tested veteran, becomes the team leader of a U.S. Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) unit, replacing Staff Sergeant Thompson, who was killed by a remote-detonated 155mm improvised explosive device (IED) in Baghdad. He joins Sergeant J.T. Sanborn and Specialist Owen Eldridge, whose jobs are to communicate with their team leader via radio inside his bombsuit, and provide him with rifle cover while he examines IEDs. During their missions of disarming IEDs and engaging insurgents together, James's unorthodox methods lead Sanborn and Eldridge to consider him reckless. Tensions mount between James and the other two team members. During a raid on a warehouse that contains a large amount of explosives, James discovers the mutilated body of a young boy. He has been carved up and planted with an unexploded bomb. James is upset, as he believes the boy to be "Beckham," a young Iraqi selling DVDs whom he had befriended.

Arabs = Extras. Monsters who kill children. (The story reminds me of the one about the drug dealers who smuggle pot in from Mexico in the bodies of dead babies.) Victims. Children friendly to Americans. Above all: extras.

I looked for but decided not to post the obvious pictures of mutilated people killed by US actions. Feels wrong. You know the images yourself.

In the aftermath of a large car bomb, James leads the EOD team to look for the perpetrators among the alleys of a village. After they separate and try to shoot the insurgents, Eldridge is captured. The other two track down and kill two insurgents who detonated the bomb and who are dragging Eldridge. He was accidentally shot in the leg during the action. He is airlifted to a hospital in Germany to have surgery to repair his shattered leg. Eldridge blames James for his injury, referring to Sanborn's suggestion that the mission, which James had ordered, would have been better suited for an infantry platoon.

The next morning, James is approached by Beckham. The young boy tries to converse with James, who walks by without saying a word. After James fails to remove and disarm a time-bomb strapped to an Iraqi civilian's chest because he ran out of time, the Iraqi dies in the explosion. Sanborn later becomes emotional and confesses to James that he can no longer cope with the pressure of being in EOD. He looks forward to finally leaving Iraq and starting a family.

James returns home to his wife and child, and is seen quietly performing routine tasks of civilian life. One night he speaks to his infant son, telling him that there is only "one thing" that he knows he loves. He is next seen back in Iraq, ready to serve another year as part of an EOD team with Delta Company.

If you sign up for another tour, that has its terrible price on your family, but we are brought to understand. You're a junkie on life's greatest drug, and we love you for it. Thank you for your service.

[Bicoastal]

165. YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS UNLESS YOU'VE ACTUALLY SEEN BOTH MOVIES.

And I haven't. :P

However, I was rooting for "A Serious Man," which clearly no one else was.

[Better Believe It]

167. I've seen both movies. Now I understand why so few people went to see "Hurt Locker"

Word of mouth spread quickly that it wasn't a really good movie. Just an average war movie shoot em up, blow em up.

[Bicoastal]

177. Actually, despite having a much smaller release than, say Avatar...

...it's grossed $16 million. Moreover, it held the highest per-screen-average of any movie playing theatrically in the United States for the first two weeks of its release.

To say that "no one saw it because it was bad" is inaccurate. More copes were printed of Sarah Palin's biography than "Middlesex" when it first came out, but that doesn't mean the latter is a bad book.

[NeedleCast]

168. I'm much more entertained by

people arguing over which movie was better - a clearly subjective thing - than the actual movies.

[Codeine]

176. As am I.

One was criminally bad, the other tediously mediocre. Neither deserved any special recognition.

[NeedleCast]

208. I enjoyed Avatar, Didn't see Hurt Locker

but then, I'm a special effects junkie and liked the movie as a gateway to opening up more things to that sort of immersive visual technology.

But I guess there are whole segments of the internet devoted to arguing about this sort of thing.

Its about as productive about arguing over which Starburst flavor is best...






...it's yellow, by the way.

[Better Believe It]

179. Roger Ebert: "Avatar is an extraordinary film with a flat-out Green and anti-war message"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7869676

[DevonRex]

180. Didn't see Avatar. I dislike sci-fi. I like seeing real actors rather than

computer generated crap.

I did see Hurt Locker. It showed one small part of the reality of war. From a psychological standpoint it showed the very real fear that soldiers experience but it also showed a darker side - the adrenaline addiction that some soldiers get.

Those 2 things are representative of the human condition. Normal people ARE afraid of war. Normal societies don't want war. It is abnormal to want to go to war, for both individuals and societies.

So, are we normal as individuals and is the United States a normal society? It seems to me that those are pretty good questions.

[Better Believe It]

195. It was difficult to find real aliens to act in this movie. That was a shortcoming.

However, you may have a long wait before aliens will be found to act as aliens in a movie.

[happy_liberal]

200. yes, the aliens have already been to earth in search of intelligent life

and they left empty handed. I doubt they'll back anytime soon, especially with the direction things are going.

[panzerfaust]

212. The best evidence for intelligent life elsewhere

... in the universe is that they have not made contact with us.

[Sal Minella]

243. I've thought this for a long time.

Space travelers could look from very high up at what we've done to our landscape, and determine we are not sufficiently evolved to be worth talking to.

[flvegan]

181. I'm proud to say that I didn't spend a dime on either movie.

Matter of fact, I don't think I saw a single one of the nominees.

[4lbs]

182. 'The Hurt Locker' an Army recruiting vehicle? Yeah.... ok, sure.

**** SPOILER ALERT ****

I will talk about some plot points.






An Army recruiting vehicle?


Other than the fact that the central character faces death all the time.

Other than the fact that the title, "The Hurt Locker", refers the colloquialism that bomb disposal people have to refer to someone who's been hurt or killed in an explosion.

Other than the fact that when the central character comes home, he has a hard time adjusting and decides to leave his family to go back to the war.



It has such a happy ending! :sarcasm:


Yeah, I can sure see how anyone, after watching the movie, would be so eager to sign up for the military and face sustained danger, depression, PTSD, and disconnection with the civilian world.

[DFab420]

199. Army recruiting vehicle?

Oh yea cause that one scene with the body bomb totally made me want to run out and join the army.

Or that other scene where the that guy eats it and they only find his helmet. (don't want to spoil who or when)..

Or is it that scene in the desert where they are getting picked off one at a time?

Did you even see the movie? Just cause the main character enjoyed what he was doing, do take it to mean it was supporting or recruiting for the army... mmkay? mmkay.

That and Avatar was nothing but a special effects driven retelling of every other nobel savage story out there. Good as it was, I definitely think Hurt Locker was more of a movie that deserved recognition.

[upi402]

205. Welcome to DU

A couple things occurred to me;
1) Young males often like tough-guy action
2) Young males often feel invincible, immune to personal connection to others' suffering and plight.

Also, I don't think sophisticated viewers like you are typical of the average American movie-goer. Avatar was paralleling American Indians being overrun by men with guns. The creator is very liberal, all his life.It's the doughey middle who need to get the message that Avatar puts out. And to get the attention of Americans you need bright colors, explosions, and skin (even better if it's blue).

So I thought it was corny, "unobtanium"???? ugh - but lots of people took in a very urgent message. It IS the counterbalance to the crap we see all the time.

[DFab420]

207. Good points

I was also thinking the same thing about young males, being one myself haha. But don't you think that means they would want to join the marines and go kill aliens? By the same logic of the OP I want to now put out there that Avatar is a recruiting tool for corporations to go hunt precious metals!! haha

[old mark]

221. What part would "recruit" you - the daily bouts of insane stress, the chances of being

blown up, the friendly Iranians watching for you to get killed while murdering their own kids or the snipers? Maybe the involuntary suicide bomber....

Lots of real incentives there...I'm sorry I'm too old.

mark

[Skittles]

232. you're not old, old mark

that OP has a head in the ass problem

[old mark]

245. S, I am old, but I'm still mean as a fucking snake. nt

[Skittles]

258. that's what I will strive to be

yes INDEED

[HuckleB]

226. I think "An Education" kicks 'em all to the curb.

But my opinion doesn't mean a durned thing.

[Mike 03]

231. The truth hurts: In Hollywood, character matters a lot, and nobody likes James Cameron.

Sad but true.

TITANIC was a no-brainer, but AVATAR is a cold film made for morons.

[Political Heretic]

247. So everyone here at DU who liked Avatar is a moron?

Got it.

[W_HAMILTON]

236. Just got done watching The Hurt Locker...

While there are a few parts that seem to portray war in a harsh light, there does seem to be more glorification of it. Maybe it is like a Rorschach test, where each person sees something different. But I would definitely say it is in no way an anti-war film, or anything of the sort.

[neverforget]

238. A shitty economy is a better Army recruiting vehicle

[Synicus Maximus]

240. You must be joking.

[Lord Helmet]

252. The Navi are a lame reincarnation of Jar Jar Binks.

The Hurt Locker was the obvious choice for best film.

[anonymous171]

259. Is this a joke? Avatar was "latte liberal" shit.