Do you buy into the "Democrats are just as bad as Republicans" Mantra?

[berni_mccoy]

This is a mantra I've heard over the decades that is used when Republicans are just absolutely bad and they want to say the Democrats are just like them.

I believe Rush started this whole mantra and it has lasted and perpetuated as an anti-government sentiment that prevails in the GOP. In fact, the GOP is so full of contempt that they have exposed themselves of being in contempt of their own members and donors (referring to the recent fund-raising power-point presentation exposed by TPM and covered on Countdown).

But I believe that mentality has spread to the Democratic party now, and it's festered into an infected wound, inflicted by the need to show that we are just as critical of our own as the other side.

It started with a few and now has spread to big names like Moore, even as Progressive members of the Congress are moving closer to reaching a deal on such party-divided issues as Health Care Reform.

So at the heart of this issue, you must ask yourself... do you really, honestly believe that the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans? If it is true that enough in the party believe this, I believe that the right has successfully injected this mantra into the heart of the party and if anything, this is what will lead to a return to power for the Republicans. They could never win on their own merits. They can only win by defaming the other side into being just as bad as they are.

[Zoeisright]

1. No. Democrats might not have a backbone, but repukes are MUCH worse.

Repukes actively try to hurt people. They are aggressively cruel and greedy.

[ixion]

2. Aside from a bit of thinly-veiled branding, there is no difference

it has nothing to do with Rush, or whomever else you may want to try and blame. Their actions reveal the truth.

[kenny blankenship]

5. Some of them are better than Republicans some of the time. Some are better all of the time

But most of the time, they are called "irrelevant" by idiots and assholes, (you've probably seen this happen around here) and so they can't overcome the mass of Democratic morons who truly aren't one bit better than Republicans.

[still_one]

19. There is some difference. I don't think you can name one republican in Congress who is liberal.

There are Democrats in Congress who are liberal and progressive.

The problem is that those progressives are delegated to a back seat, and there voices are NOT included in the party dialog. The HCR debate was a perfect example of this outrage, but intentionally excluding those who represented a public option or Medicare for all from the initial discussions

In effect, since they are not give adequate representation in the party, you are right, it is very difficult to see the difference

The only other difference would be the Supreme Court

Right now it appears that a Democratic president would select a much different person than a republican president

That may change, since it appears that the administration prefers to listen more to those on the other side of the aisle than his base, but for the present that is not occurring

[bvar22]

69. In "some" cases they are worse.

The Republicans could have NEVER gotten away with a "reform" plan that requires EVERY American to BUY Health Insurance from the For Profit Corporations with NO Public Option, de-funds Medicare by $500Billion, and transfers a TRILLION dollars of Public Money directly to private pockets.

The same way the Republicans could have never gotten away with NAFTA or Welfare Reform.
The Republicans would have never gotten away with the Great Wall Street "Bailout" without help from the "Centrist" Democrats. THAT was a spectacular display of REAL "Bi-Partisanship".
It takes "Centrist" Democrats to do bad things on THAT scale.

The same holds true for the coming "Entitlement Reforms".

On the other hand, there are certain elements of the Democratic Party (The "Democratic Wing") that hold true to traditional Democratic Ideals. You will find most of them here:

http://www.pdamerica.org/

...but the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party has been completely Marginalized, Neutered, and Muzzled by the current "Centrist" Administration and Party Leadership.


The DLC New Team
Progressives Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

Don't buy The Hype and Pretty Marketing.
"By their works, you will know them."

[liberal N proud]

3. When the Republicans are always caught with their pants down

They point across the isle to say, look, he is just as bad.

NO. I Do NOT buy this pile of bullshit either.

The Democrats worked with the fuckers when they were in power in an attempt to keep government moving, these bastards are just blocking everything and then crying that Government is broken.

Hogwash.

[Cosmocat]

84. B I N G O ! ! !

This is just one of the most well worn ways that Rs manage to absolve their responsibility for whatever BS they can't otherwise BS around ...

And, sorry, spineless pukebags and all, in the year 2010, any 99% of the dems in congress are INFINITELY better than 99% of the Rs - who are been COMPLETETLY assimilated into one, viscious, never endingly hypocritical, supporting the wealthy elite at all costs voting block ...

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Depends on the democrat.

[Tesha]

6. Democrats are differently bad.

Republicans are overtly evil.

Democrats are uselessly incompetent.

Either way, for the little guy/gyn, the end result
is "just as bad".

Tesha

[Orsino]

7. The same goddamned disease has infected both parties...

...but to different degrees.

[RKP5637]

39. Exactly!!! Just follow the money and also revolving doors between congress, corps and lobbyists. nt

[mike_c]

8. this is just utterly disingenuous....

Of course they're DIFFERENT. Arguments like this always seek to paper over reality by focusing on the differences. It's like arguing over two cars up on blocks, one a Ford and the other a Chevy. Of COURSE they're different-- one's red and the other's blue, one's a ford and the other's a chevy.

But they're both broken. They're fundamentally similar from any functional perspective.

That's the case with the republican and democratic political leadership. They are equally broken, equally at odds with the best interests of the nation and their constituents, equally in thrall to corporate money and fascism. Like two cars on blocks in the yard, both parties are fundamentally similar from a functional perspective, and both are equally an eyesore.

[cali]

21. nothing disingenuous about it.

they're fundamentally different in degree of potential to cause serious damage by any rational perspective. they are not equally broken or even close to being equally at odds with the best interests of the nation. it's nothing short of delusion to make that insane claim.

[mike_c]

31. you're right-- one IS red and the other blue....

How could I have thought they were similar in any way when they're obviously as different as red and blue?

[bvar22]

73. Well said, Mike.

:thumbsup:
Love the Cars on Blocks.

[azureblue]

9. No

Just look at growth, job numbers, national productivity, and national debt numbers, beginning with Nixon, and see which party benefits this country the most. There has only been one administration since Nixon that left this country with a surplus, which the next administration promptly squandered, and that about says it all.

[mike_c]

25. self delete-- replied to the wrong response....

Sorry.

[Cerridwen]

10. First, that's not a rush initiated idea.

Second, my dad was hollering against the PTB when I was a kid and was saying all the politicians were a bunch of crooks (his language was much more colorful). Dad was born in NY in 1938. He was a good Teamster for 28 years until his death in '89.

Third, as far as he was concerned, the only people you could trust were your neighbors and your union and sometimes your family.

Fourth, my dad with his 8th grade education knew more about targeting the problems caused in this country than many Ph.D.s I've met.

Look up. That golden sunrise/sunset you see, is the view through the piss being rained upon us pee-ons.

Your attempt to associate those of us who don't think the Democrats wear halos with rush is ugly, disingenuous, and wrong.

Go read some newspapers from the 1920s and 1930s. Some of them are online. Back then they criticized Robber Barrons, the Idle Rich, and they didn't distinguish between parties because the Democrats had their fair share and their Party Machines.

Learn history.

[Edweird]

85. +1 and wow.

[NJmaverick]

11. Hell no! I think it's a talking point spread by GOP operatives

to make it easier for the GOP to defeat the Dems and regain power (and then finish the job of destroying our nation, that they started under Bush).

[peace13]

12. Name one reuthg President who has even looked at health care?

It may not be perfect but the we were going the wrong way fast without it.

[Demeter]

23. Nixon

He also looked at setting an income floor under all people.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. Nixon did.

[tekisui]

13. Not the same, not as bad---But, bad nonetheless.

Republicans are bad for their positions, corruptions, policies, attitudes and ideologies. The reasons they are bad is a long well-known list.

The Dems are bad because of their ineffectiveness. They are unable or unwilling (makes not difference to the outcome which) to achieve significant legislative victories. They are full of weak leaders who seem more worried about making waves and being liked then making good laws that benefit the people. They seem more concerned with maintaining political power than exercising political power. They aren't nearly as bad as repubbies, but bad in their own way.

[MadHound]

14. The thing is both Democrats and Republicans have become corporately corrupted

They truly only answer to their corporate masters, first and foremost. It used to be that the Democratic party would throw out a few crumbs for the rest of us, but even that has pretty much disappeared. There are a few principled members of the Democratic party left, but they have been forced to the sidelines and marginalized (think Kucinich). But other than those exceptions, well judge by the actions of the Democrats over the past eighteen years. It is not a record of stark differences, but rather of increasing similarities.

Both Clinton and Obama would be judged as moderate Republicans fifty years ago. It is a sad sign of how far we've moved to the right in this country that both were able to run and win under the Democratic banner.

[RKP5637]

42. I think this is quite correct. The new dems are not the same as the old ones from way back. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Kinda like asking if a teaspoon of arsenic is "as bad" as a tablespoon of arsenic.

"Not as bad" has been a long time excuse for bad Democratic policies.

"The shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same." Marie Beyle

[Motown_Johnny]

16. that is like comparing rotten apples with rotten oranges

Different but still.......



The best thing about the (D)s it that when they sell out sometimes it helps the middle class and at times even the poor. There are even times when the don't sell out and follow their priorities and that tends to help the majority of Americans also.

When the (R)s sell out it always hurts the majority of Americans. ALso when they follow their priorities and don't sell out that tends to hurt the majority of Americans too.



So, no. I guess the (D)s are not as bad as the (R)s IMO. (but I did need to think about it for a while)

[jaksavage]

57. I am with you.

Politics corrupts the best of people.
If you start out bad you get worse.
If you start out good you get compromised or
marginalized.

[cali]

17. not just no, but hell no. One can only conclude that those who believe

that are hopelessly stupid or ignorant as shit or both.

[Raineyb]

63. If you think that the damage done by Republicans by malice

is different to the same damage done by Democrats by incompetence and fecklessness makes a difference to those being damaged then you're as hopelessly stupid and or ignorant as those you decry.

People who are being damaged don't give a damn about the differences in how they're being damaged. What they want is to see the damage stop. Something neither party seems to be willing and/or able to do. Poison by the cup or poison by the gallon is still poison.

[madokie]

18. Not me

I've heard the argument though

[Echo In Light]

20. Chomsky on the difference between the parties

"The model of media as corporate oligopoly is the natural system for capitalist democracy. It has, accordingly, reached its highest form in the most advanced of these societies, particularly the United States, where media concentration is high, public radio and television are limited in scope, and elements of the radical democratic model exist only at the margins, in such phenomena as listener-supported community radio and the alternative or local press, often with a noteworthy effect on the social and political culture and the sense of empowerment in the communities that benefit from these options. In this respect, the United States represents the form towards which capitalist democracy is tending; related tendencies include the progressive elimination of unions and other popular organizations that interfere with private power, an electoral system that is increasingly stage-managed as a public relations exercise, avoidance of welfare measures such as national health insurance that also impinge on the prerogatives of the privileged, and so on. From this perspective, it is reasonable for Cyrus Vance and Henry Kissinger to describe the United States as "a model democracy," democracy being understood as a system of business control of political as well as other major institutions.

Other Western democracies are generally a few steps behind in these respects. Most have not yet achieved the U.S. system of one political party, with two factions controlled by shifting segments of the business community. They still retain parties based on working people and the poor which to some extent represent their interests. But these are declining, along with cultural institutions that sustain different values and concerns, and organizational forms that provide isolated individuals with the means to think and to act outside the framework imposed by private power..."

[upi402]

28. "of one political party, with two factions"

And this;
"democracy being understood as a system of business control of political as well as other major institutions."

At least Republicans have spine and don't pretend to have your back only to stab you there.

[EFerrari]

29. Didn't Gore Vidal say there was no left wing in this country

just two right wings?

[Echo In Light]

30. Yes. Basically the same point Chomsky makes. Those who enjoy the 'game' of politics refute this...

... however, for reasons that are obvious

[whatchamacallit]

65. So true

on this board there are many, so invested in the illusory classic struggle between D and R, they can't fathom why anyone would challenge the party about anything.

[Echo In Light]

68. Which is the real reason why no 'change'

[Demeter]

22. Because They Know Better, Democrats Are Worse

they just aren't even trying to be good servants of the Public.

[BarbaRosa]

24. That's the mantra used by republicans,

when they know they are in the wrong.

Democrats wrong ------> repubs saintly
Repubs wrong ---------> everybody evil

[Echo In Light]

27. Also an unavoidable conclusion reached via objective analysis

[blindpig]

32. Mostly true...

except the Republicans are more honest about their reactionary agenda.

[Unvanguard]

33. Absolutely not. They have different views on a variety of policy questions.

And the Democratic view is nearly always preferable to the Republican one.

[Echo In Light]

38. Re social/safety net issues, there's some truth to that i.e. "the lesser of two evils"

And that's usually reason enough to cast one's vote to Dems, and NEVER repubs

Re the big domestic/foreign/economic policies, though, especially anything that can be obfuscated within the National $ecurity State ruse, there isn't any substantive difference - and that's how the system is designed

[TransitJohn]

34. I find it telling that neither the POTUS nor the Congress which is in Dem hands is

trying to implement ANY of the party platform, as near as I can tell. The House did okay with their version of Health Care Reform, but the execrable Senate version is the one that is going to go down. So they overturned the ban on stem cell research. Yay, team! :sarcasm:

[UTUSN]

35. Never have, never will. I'm sure it didn't start with NADIR in 2000, but he pushed it.

Even a weak or otherwise bad actor Dem will make thousands of appointments down the food chain that eventually will affect policy and to better effect than the Rethug choices.

[tabbycat31]

36. no and I also don't believe government is bad

There are exceptions to the rule of course. I personally think "Democrats" like Joe Lieberman are just as bad as Republicans.

I also don't give a shit about the size of government. I don't care how big it is as long as it's effective.

[RKP5637]

45. Agree!!! n/t

[tabbycat31]

37. no and I also don't believe government is bad

There are exceptions to the rule of course. I personally think "Democrats" like Joe Lieberman are just as bad as Republicans.

I also don't give a shit about the size of government. I don't care how big it is as long as it's effective.

[DevonRex]

40. No. That's just a third party meme. They're desperate for members

and that's the only way they can think of to get them.

[Maru Kitteh]

41. No I don't buy it at all. I've been around long enough to know better.

Plus, I can read.

[laughingliberal]

43. Depends on the Democrat. nt

[amborin]

44. Dems used to be better for the environment

not so much any more

now, the added layer of hypocrisy makes some worse than rethugs

[lutefisk]

46. It's largely hate radio/GOP strategery

They are purposefully using the exact language and kinds of accusations used against them to associate the "Democrat Party" with the damage done by Bush and the Republicans. At the least, they level the playing field and people will just throw up their arms in confusion and see both sides as the same. At the worst they actually succeed in attributing their fuck-ups to Democrats. Hate radio is all about ironic, false indignation over how Democrats are leaving a huge debt for our grandchildren and Obama's war and the economy Democrats have created...

As to the original question, no, Democrats aren't as bad. There are a few good ones- Feingold, Franken, Kucinich... - but unfortunately, a whole lot of spineless, self-serving ones, too.

[G_j]

47. sure, it's all Rush and the GOP's meme

of course, it has nothing to do with Democrats supporting GOP policies.

:shrug:

[MUAD_DIB]

48. No, I never have. I it the GOP way of saying "just vote for us since the

other guys pretend to be us", and "the other guys are just as guilty as we are so when we do something criminal it is alright."

[alfredo]

49. No. Dems at least kiss us before they shove it in. The truth is

Democrats lack a strong authoritarian core as you see in the GOP. That's why we are so disorganized as a party. We do not demand, and we do not tolerate strict discipline. We are less likely to resort to tyranny than the authoritarian right.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

We have our faults, but we do not have it in us to become dictatorial.

[berni_mccoy]

51. Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Evil... I'll stick with Chaotic Good.

[alfredo]

72. Another quote on good and evil:

A good imposed on another becomes and evil.

[whatchamacallit]

50. Yeah, that must be it

DUers unhappy about the direction of the party are obviously weak-minded dupes of right-wing propaganda. :eyes:

[Echo In Light]

53. And that's been 'their' meme to sell-sell-sell for some time now

[Supersedeas]

52. Well, I buy into the fact that labels don't mean as much anymore with some exceptions

Lately, Repigs will always vote in lock-step, with rare exceptions.

Lately, Dems are more difficult to vote party line, with exception.

Voting records matter more than Party labels.

[Junkdrawer]

54. They have completely different roles in the Kabuki Theater that is modern politics...

Anyone who says different just doesn't know theater.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

55. Democrats, like Lucy, promise hope

Charlie Brown HOPES that Lucy will hold the ball so he can kick it.

[ipaint]

56. Speaking from the lower working class

and after 30 years of watching a steady move to the right, not a dimes worth of difference. Conservatives did not seize power in the democratic party to protect the rights of labor. They are there to work for the owners.

Of course to maintain the illusion democrats add a little sugar to the poison but in the end the results are the same. A three decade long recession and now depression for low paid workers in addition to a gap between rich and poor about to break all records.

Too bad, democrats weren't always like that. And if accountability actually meant something to the ruling elite they'd admit they did it to themselves.

[upi402]

58. two sides of the same damn coin

at least you know what Reoublicans are about. and they have spines. I have zero respect for bluedogs and weasels.

[Echo In Light]

64. "Necessary illusions." Our system of governance (control) can't work as elites want it to sans patsy

[western mass]

59. on the most important issues - YES

On the war, the economy, and health care, it's become clear that the Obama administration is as bad as any McCain administation would have been. For crissake, the Dems have put the SAME REPUBLICANS in charge of the economy as ran the economy into the ground under Bush. The SAME bootlicking generals are running our wars. This HCR fraud is worse than no reform - it takes a broken system and makes it more entrenched than it ever was before. I don't believe for a second that McCain would have been worse on any of these issues.

Republicans fight reform. Corporate Dems make sure reform never happens. Two sides of the same coin.

[Prism]

60. "Moderate" Dems are the candy-coating on Republican policies

Republicans tend to advance the overt assaults on working Americans.

Moderate Democrats make these assaults acceptable to segments of the electorate who would otherwise resist them.

With this administration, I tend to think about President Obama's policies in terms of "What if Bush had done this?"

Time after time, without any variation, I see people who would have been outraged if Bush had done things find a host of wretched policies and approaches magically acceptable as long as President Obama is the one proposing them.

Republicans do the bending over. Moderate Democrats are the raw, chafing reach-around.

[hfojvt]

61. quite astounding isn't it

to find so much hatred of the Democratic Party on Democratic Underground. I guess it should more properly be called Kucinich Underground that way it would have the same initials as the greatest basketball team ever.

We do love to add to the Republican Noise Machine sometimes.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/51

[cbdo2007]

62. Sometimes. The extreme far left is just as bad as the extreme far right.

Not overall. As a whole it seems like the goal of the Repubes is to act without reason or logic based on some whacked out beliefs that they probably don't understand to begin with and when they don't get their way they will obstruct. For the most part the Democrats aren't like that but there is a group of the Dems who are the same way and luckily I think they're the minority by a long shot and its those that are as far left as they can possibly get on every issue.

[Echo In Light]

67. Whom do you codify as being "extreme far left" in the US?

.. esp as it pertains to an organized party

[kjackson227]

66. No, not as a whole, but there are some Dems who are in the pockets...

of lobbyists/big business who absolutely do not have the priority of the American people at heart. It's important that we get rid of these corportist Dems before they ruin the party.

[MilesColtrane]

70. Hell to the no

[Greyhound]

71. OMG, Of course! Like all that is dark & evil in the world, it all started with The Limp One.

Is there anything at all that you won't excuse? People have said this very thing for even longer than the Republiks have existed.

The Democrats don't have to be as bad as the Republiks for a majority to realize they suck, too. What will restore the Republiks to power is the actions taken, or more accurately not taken, by the Democrats. The Republic Party completely self-destructed and it was only the "Democratic Leadership" that saved it for the big comeback we are seeing now.

As has been said thousands of times before, we didn't win the last election, the Republiks lost it.

How many time do you require them to play the same game right in front of you before you realize it is a game and we are a very low-order (insignificant, expendable) pieces.

[NightWatcher]

74. (most) Dems are the Washington Generals playing a part for the Harlem Globetrotters, in this game

we call American Politics. I believe that the Dem v Repuke is a false paradigm with the real power resting in the hands of those who control both parties, The $$$ Guys.

They play a part in the stage act that is American Politics. They go on the Sunday shows and purport to be the opposite of all things Republican, but they shower in the same locker room.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. And, getting well paid by the lobbyists to play the game.

[Echo In Light]

77. lol...the Harlem Globetrotters! Good analogy. I use the pro wrastlin' example often

... lots of scripted, phony 'outrage' to cover for all those behind the scenes agreements and collusion

[Beacho]

76. Depends

If they act like corporate dick sucking Repukes, then yes. If they actually start acting like, you know, Democrats, then no.

[optimator]

78. its a fact that neither party represents the People

neither party represents:

women's rights
gay rights
privacy rights
legal rights
justice/the rule of law
the environment
peace
equal opportunity
education
health CARE
economic fairness
labor

so I won't judge if Dems are "just as bad" but I am 100% sure that they DO NOT REPRESENT ME

[Echo In Light]

79. +1

[Maat]

80. Yes.

Except for Dennis Kucinich and a few others.

[mdmc]

81. lesser of two evils

:(

[Golden Raisin]

82. With each passing minute they seem

more and more alike, and both parties have veered very sharply to the right (the Republicans are now in scary rightwing territory). I think the main, practical difference (and its an important one) is under a Democratic regime you at least stand a chance of filling a vacant Supreme Court opening with someone who isn't a bonafide, corporate fascist-type.

[bvar22]

83. Lets take a look at "Democratic Achievements" in the last year:

In 2008, The American People gave the Democratic Party:
*The White House

*Large MAJORITIES in The House

*A Filibuster-proof MAJORITY in The Senate

*(Most Importantly) a HUGE MANDATE for "CHANGE"

This is what they have accomplished:

*WARS fully funded and EXPANDING. Bill sent to our children…...Mission Accomplished !

*Trillion Dollars given to friends and campaign contributors on Wall Street. No Strings Attached...Mission Accomplished!

*Military Spending INCREASED....Mission Accomplished!

*Trillion+ Dollars given to the Health Insurance Industry. Easily Avoidable, symbolic only strings attached....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Force all Americans to buy invisible products from For Profit Corporations who manufacture nothing and create no (Value Added) wealth..."A Uniquely American Solution"..indeed. .....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Kill the possibility for a REAL "Public Option" or REAL Universal Health Care for at least another generation, and begin the “Entitlement Reform” defunding of Medicare (-$500 Billion)....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Block ANY REAL re-regulation of BIG BANKS and Credit Cards....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the Bush War Criminals and Torturers from JUSTICE....Mission Accomplished.

*Throw the GBLTs under the bus and expand "faith based" initiatives....Mission Accomplished!

*Reinforce the worst Police State provisions of the Patriot Act and strengthen the Unitary Executive....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the very richest. Tell the Working Class that they CAN WILL compete with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs.....Mission Accomplished!

*EFCA (Employee Free Choice Act) killed in the crib....Mission Accomplished!

*More Anti-LABOR "Free Trade"....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Jobless Recovery....Mission Accomplished

*The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party SHUT OUT of the Obama Administration…...Mission Accomplished!

*Accelerate the destruction of Public Education...Mission Accomplished!

*Bury next generation under such a debt burden that they will never be able to afford any social or economic programs that will benefit their Working Class....Mission Accomplished.

And ALL this in less than a year!!!
:party:

There ARE some REAL Democrats in the Progressive Caucus, but they have been Marginalized, Neutered, and Muzzled by the "Centrist" White House, Party Leadership, and Media.

On my bad days I suspect that the Progressive Caucus is merely playing out their assigned rolls in the Kabuki Theater to maintain the illusion that Working Americans still have a voice in The Democratic Party.


There is a Blood Bath coming in 2010 that will make 1994 look Little League.
There will be NO "Fix it Later", and any "regulations" put on the Health Insurance Industry to make this abominable HCR Bill seem more palatable will be quickly de-regulated.
That IS what Republicans and "Centrist" Democrats do...De-Regulate.
(See: NAFTA, Repeal of Glass-Steagal)

We WILL be left with the FOUNDATION,
which is Mandated Profits for the Health Insurance Industry,
and every single American WILL be FORCED to contribute to these PROFITS.
We WILL have to live with this for a LONG time.

Which Party is worse?
I really can't say.
It ALL looks the same to me.
I am a Working Class American.
What has either Party done for me lately?:shrug:


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[WeekendWarrior]

86. Such a question doesn't even deserve an answer. Anyone with a brain can see it's not true. nt

[Radical Activist]

87. The argument is meant to build cynicism, no matter who is making it.

It's a weak argument made by people who place ideology ahead of rational judgment. That goes for Rush and Greens. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Democrats but its simply a bad argument that leaves people feeling hopeless and disenfranchised.

[Bluenorthwest]

88. More on what Bernie believes, without reasons for that faith

Look, your attempt to smear and slander liberals and those who wish to see this Party remain true to our historic ideals with associations such as Rush is just disgusting. You should be ashamed.
This is all you do here, slander Democrats you wish were more conservative like you are. You don't seem to know what a Party is. You think you can slam members of this Party endlessly, by name, and then speak about how wonderful the Party is? You have slandered here several Democrats I have worked to elect, a few I know in my private life, and others I have just read about, but always Democrats. Slam away, you rave against Kucinich, who is one of the few Democrats my father would recognize as Democrats. Endlessly.
You believe a lot of crazy stuff, but what you know is very limited. But you know, in terms of reality the two Parties are nearly identical these days. They all shout about one man, one woman, kill the gays, line 'em up, they should not have rights, we should pass laws, have prayer meetings, savage them from the Primary platform. The day Obama used and defended Donnie Mcclurkin's hate speech was the day the Party lost all standing in terms of being 'better' about divisive rhetoric and religionism. The man accused gay people of trying to kill America's children. And he was Obama's surrogate, Michelle cooed that he's her favorite, just her favorite. So that is what you are trying to defend sir. Are those who cast false accusations of murder 'better' than anyone? Not really.