I had no idea they were this close to proving election fraud 2004...

[happy_liberal]

I just read this in an article about Michael Connell's suspicious death
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7868958#7870153


"Ohio’s secretary of state in 2004 was a fiercely partisan Christian named Ken Blackwell. Blackwell had hired a company called GDC Limited to run the IT systems, which had subcontracted the job to Michael Connell’s company, GovTech. Connell had in turn sub-contracted SMARTech, an IT firm based in Chattanooga, to act, it was claimed, as a backup server.

“By looking at the URLs on the Web site, we discovered that there were three points on election night when SMARTech’s computers took over from the secretary of state,” says Arnebeck. “It is during that period that we believe votes were manipulated.”

In computer jargon it is known as a man-in-the-middle attack.

“At the time I didn’t know who SMARTech were,” says IT expert Stephen Spoonamore, opening a file on his computer showing the Internet architecture map of the 2004 Ohio election. He points to a red box in the bottom right-hand corner showing SMARTech’s server.

“Then I found out: They host Rove’s e-mails. They host the RNC’s Web site. They host George Bush’s Web site.” His voice rises in disbelief.

“I go, ‘Holy shit, this is a man-in-the-middle attack! These guys have programmed the state’s computers to talk to a company with ties 
to the Republican Party.’ It’s brilliant.”

With his wiry hair and designer glasses, Spoonamore looks like a character in a Tim Burton movie. A lifelong Republican, he is also one of the world’s acknowledged experts on cybersecurity, with a résumé that includes work for the U.S. armed forces and the FBI. In his spare time he has devoted thousands of hours to investigating cyberfraud in American elections. “I know I sound crazy when I talk about this stuff. No one wants to believe it. They say, ‘No one would steal an elec--tion.’ And I go, ‘Yeah, they would. And that’s exactly what they did.’ ”...






Just six weeks before his death, Connell had given a deposition in an Ohio lawsuit that accused Rove, Bush, and Co. of something far more serious than merely scrubbing e-mails: the theft of the 2004 Ohio vote. “This is the biggest scandal in our history,” says Mark Crispin Miller, a professor at New York University who has written extensively about electronic voter fraud. “Watergate grew out of a paranoid attempt to disable the opposition. But Ohio was exponentially different. We’re talking about a systematic, centralized attempt to rig the voting system.”

“We decided to try to bring a racketeering claim against Rove under Ohio law,” says Cliff Arnebeck, the attorney who brought the suit, a broad-shouldered man with a Senatorial air dressed in a blue blazer. “We detected a pattern of criminal activity, and we identified Connell as a key witness, as the implementer for Rove.”...





Ultimately, only a full criminal investigation can determine the truth about Ohio ’04 and the death of Michael Connell. Robert Kennedy Jr., who sought Connell’s cooperation during an investigation into the election, believes the current administration should pursue the matter. “I think this is more serious than Watergate,” he says. “Watergate was essentially about winning the battle for public opinion. That’s why the break-in took place—to gather strategic information about Democratic strategy and dirt. But the electoral process remained intact. The Ohio vote undermines the very foundation stone of American democracy. There should be an official investigation. Otherwise this becomes a blueprint for how to steal an election from here to eternity.”


REALLY interesting article!
http://www.maxim.com/humor/stupid-fun/86265/mysterious-death-bushs-cyber-guru.html


I agree with RFK Jr, there needs to be an official investigation of this. Rove is on TV every weekend, he's selling books...he needs to be held accountable. This needs to be exposed, it is the only way to protect ourselves from these criminials in the future. They are not leaving, they are just preparing for the next round.

[Echo In Light]

1. k/r - Never underestimate the power of denial

[Betty Karlson]

76. What about 2010?

What happened 5 1/2 years ago, can happen again. Why deny that it WILL happen again? We need investigation/ prosecution NOW. November will be too late.

[RufusTFirefly]

91. The tragedy is that it will get even easier over time

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it-please try to believe me-unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not?-Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

-- From They Thought They Were Free, by Milton Mayer.

[katandmoon]

2. And not one damn thing will happen. Obama will cover BushCo's ass.

[tridim]

5. This has nothing to do with Obama.

You're obsessed.

[katandmoon]

12. Of course it does. Obama's DOJ would never allow any lawsuits to touch Bush/Cheney.

[WVRICK13]

21. Obama Himself

said he was not interested in prosecuting the previous administration because we need to move forward.

[Happy Friend]

56. Don't Look Back in Anger :)

Stop living in the past, bro! It's like my neighbor. He's so pissed off at these guys just becaused they gang raped his wife and daughter and then burnt down his house. It's like yawn, dude, stop living in the past. You gotta look to the future.





Okay, seriously, the election stealing and plane crash bullshit is disturbing. That's why no one with any sense trusts in the integrity of our government.

There are all these events that have been well-documented and confirmed at this point which prove the true character of our government like:

Terrorist Bombings in Vietnam (like the one depicted in The Quiet American)

Overthrowing governments (often democracies) and replacing them with murderous dictatorships (Iran Guatemala Chile Indonesia, etc.) Often the leaders we ousted would be killed (Allende Lumuba, Diem)

In the case of Guatemala, the CIA was even given the mission to construct a case for Communist ties to the deposed government, and to fabricate those ties.

The CIA in the Bay of Pigs deceived Kennedy about how the mission would go; they knew that there would be no uprising inspired by the exiles invasion. The only reason we didn't end up conquering Cuba was the greatness of John F. Kennedy

The majority of Kennedy's Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to launch a PREEMPTIVE NUCLEAR STRIKE against the USSR.

The Gulf of Tonkin incident which led to the legal authorization for the Vietnam War, never happened, and the ships that were on those missions were violating North Vietnamese Waters and were actually do so to PROVOKE and attack.

The Pentagon Paper revealed the long history of deception on the part of the U.S. in Vietnam

We also needlessly bombed the shit out of Laos and Cambodia without letting the American public know.

The Church Committee hearings in the U.S. Senate revealed all sorts of awful things that the CIA was doing (mind control experiments using hypnosis and drugs with murderous applications, training on how to make murders look like suicides, operating illegally in the U.S., infiltrating and controlling US media outlets). ( http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/contents/church/contents_church_reports.htm )

The CIA even did research and created weapons which kill instantly without leaving a trace in an autopsy, and they found out how to chemically induce terminal cancer in human subjects. What possible moral justification is there for these two things ?

October Surprise

CIA-Contra-Cocaine

BCCI

Cooking intelligence to justify the Iraq War ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jul/17/iraq.usa )

The whole Sibel Edmond Story ( http://larryflynt.com/?p=693 )

We have tortured, even torturing innocent people to death and calling it suicide ( Google "Camp No" or http://harpers.org/archive/2010/01/hbc-90006368 )

We "know" all of these things, but:

1) in no real way do they shape the political conversations

2) few people, if any, have been held accountable for these things

I am not even talking here about the things that many people suspect but that the gov't still denies (like the CIA & friends killing JFK which even RFK believed before he encountered his own "lone nut")




So...

Is it surprising that with computerized voting, someone could and would simply change the vote totals ?

If they would do that, should we think it possible that they would kill a person rather than allow him to expose the scheme ?

People are silenced and kept out of the conversation if they have a realistic, informed reckoning of how power operates and has operated in our country. It's not that anyone espouses the ethical values demonstrated by the authors of the actions I listed above. Maybe they will we be reported once, but typically without much comment. Usually, these inconvenient truths go into the memory hole, or they get relegated to the realm of 9/11 truthers and conspiracy "buffs". Silence: It's the new censorship. ( see the original Harper's magazine article, or http://boingboing.net/2003/08/02/new-censorship-how-s.html )

You don't want to be part of the "Blame America First" crowd. Tsk, tsk.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

61. PLEASE PUT THESE PEOPLE IN PRISON

[Left Coast2020]

63. I remember talking to Brad of BradBlog on a talk show a few

years ago, and I asked him about Ohio prosecuting Blackwell. He told me on-air that he believed an investigation was ongoing. That was in 06. I'm still waiting Brad.

[robinlynne]

96. It's not about Brad. The ballots were destroyed, even though there was a court order

to maintain them.

[WVRICK13]

77. Great Posting

My worry about the ethics of our government is nothing new and all of the things you list are part of the reason. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. That attitude is responsible for so many wrongs in the country. It is pervasive from local governments and small towns to the feds. One local example, the postmaster was caught stealing over a million dollars during the course of 12 or so years. Seems the local newspapers and others paid for a bulk delivery every week for the distribution of things like The Weekender. Postmaster had been keeping those checks since there was no postage stamps used etc. The clue should have been his big RV, big house, beach condo and other expensive items on a postmasters salary. The postmaster was a very nice guy and active in the community. He was also one of the founding members of a storefront church with a huge congregation. When the feds caught him the local paper refused to run articles about it. The papers owner told me, he doesn't deserve this, they should just forget it. The postmaster eventually got a couple of years in prison and the town was outraged. Shortly after his release he was diagnosed with cancer and later died. Yes, it made me sad because he was a nice guy. It made me sad that such a nice man could do such things. Yet this same town gets up in arms if someone of a lower socioeconomic class gets arrested for shoplifting. They want to hang the poor schmuck. It seem it is all related to money and power. Even if the money is stolen and the power is illegal.

[rhett o rick]

83. I recognize your sarcasm but dont recognize a point. No offense. nt

[wolfgangmo]

94. I would add to this excellent list Paul Wellstone.

A little light conspiracy reading. http://www.oilempire.us/wellstone.html

But the most telling information was the fact that the FBI were on scene, took control and banned all local law enforcement from the scene where they were alone until the NTSB showed up and asked them "WTF are you doing?" First the FBI didn't have any authority to take control of any crash scene, only the NTSB has. Second the FBI did not have authority to start "investigating" the scene until cleared by the NTSB. Third, and most telling, was the timeline. They were at the crash site 1/2 hour after the plane went down. The only problem with this is that the nearest FBI office is 3.5 hours away at highway speed. It's almost like they "knew" ahead of time that something was going to happen.

[ArcticFox]

120. Dude, you'd better watch your back

You're absolutely right of course. And what percentage of such acts do you think actually come to any public scrutiny at all? I'd speculate your list is on the order of 5% of such things, maybe less.

[rhett o rick]

48. You mean Obama/Bush's DOJ. Obama didnt make any changes if I am not mistaken. nt

[The Doctor.]

49. You're right, but that doesn't mean Obama has as much to do with it as you suggest.

The Presidency doesn't have the power it used to.

[wolfgangmo]

95. Are you fucking kidding?

"The Presidency doesn't have the power it used to."

Are you fucking kidding? The past administration moved this country MUCH closer to being a unitary presidency. Those rules are still in place.

[robinlynne]

97. Actually you are wrong on that point. The EAC, who oversees elections and decides

what amchines we vote on, is directly appointed by the president. Obama left all the BUsh appointees in place. It is 100% his decision. And the rpeisdency has MUCH MORE power since Bush, not less.

[rhett o rick]

47. Has Obama replaced the corrupt Bush-Cabal DOJ? Why not?

Has he given a pass to Bush/Cheney and other war criminals? Why?

The poster stated that Pres Obama will not help with this investigation. He will cover for the killers. Why?

I am obsessed with getting our Constitution reestablished, and Pres Obama isnt doing anything.

Do you think this should be allowed to be covered up?

[ooglymoogly]

70. Pot, meet kettle. nt

[earth mom]

30. Pelosi and the rest of Congress covered * & Co's asses so that Obama could be the next prez.

How's that for violating the Consititution? :grr:

[Richard Steele]

45. And the same systems will give us "President Palin" in 2016.

Maybe 2012, if they're feeling bold.

[rhett o rick]

50. Bush/Cheney in 2012 (Jeb and Liz). Palin is being used as a red herring.

While the shadow government is getting Congress to stall, Jeb and Liz will run in 2012.

[judesedit]

109. Puke

Period

[HowHasItComeToThis]

62. DON'T YOU GET IT? THE POWERS THAT BE WANT AN INCAPABLE FEDERAL GOVT.

[robinlynne]

98. you mean a givernement whihc refuses to do its job?

[Mike K]

101. And therein lies the tale.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Cue the DLC apologists....

"There's no such thing as electronic election fraud. Blah blah blah......"

[bjobotts]

23. Rove even threatened Connell and Connell left a note stating his death was no accident

[bjobotts]

24. Yet the MSM allow this blatant murderer a national voice on TV. Thinks he's invincible like Cheney

[Supersedeas]

4. makes you wonder how much real history is buried

[Echo In Light]

8. My substance-less theory: Americans may have never actually, technically "elected" many presidents

Nothing to back that up, of course...lol ...especially since the end of WW2

[unpossibles]

104. I too have wondered about this more than once nt

[MissDeeds]

29. Yes, and it will probably stay buried

Since this administration has said they want to look forward (aka give a pass to the crimes of the past administration) I doubt anything will come of this. I'd like to believe that the truth will come out, and that those who have committed crimes will be brought to justice, but that simply is not the new world order in which we find ourselves. I used to believe that this country stood for something good...sadly, I was wrong.

[flyarm]

6. It's a great reminder but we at DU were all over it at the time..and I doubt anything will ever come

from this administration or anyone about the election thefts.

This has been discussed here many many times..please look in the archives..you will find a wealth of Info.

This is good to be posted for those who knew nothing about it though.

[omega minimo]

7. That was the time for "people in the streets,' not 6 -10 years after letting them take over

[smoogatz]

9. This thing stank to high heaven in 2004

and it stinks to high heaven now. Investigate!

[Echo In Light]

10. Must read:

None dare call it stolen - Ohio, the election, and America's servile press

by Mark Crispin Miller, summarized by Mary Anne Saucier, Columbus, Ohio
July 24, 2005
The Free Press

While commentators, prompted by Republicans, claimed Bush won the 2004 election through the votes of a silent majority concerned with “family values,” Mark Crispin Miller writes that when voters were asked to state, “in their own words the most important factor in their vote,”only 14 percent named “moral values.” He details how the press (except for Keith Olbermann on MSNBC) ignored “the strange details of the election—except, that is, to ridicule all efforts to discuss them…It was as if they were reporting from inside a forest fire without acknowledging the fire, except to keep insisting that there was no fire.”

Then he lists the copious evidence pointing to a stolen election, easily available on the web or in paperback, from Michigan Representative John Conyers’ report, Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio. More than dirty tricks, it covers “the run-up to the election, the election itself, and the post-election cover-up,” listing “specific violations of the U.S. and Ohio constitutions, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1968, the National Voter Registration Act, and the Help America Vote Act.”

The Conyers report details the disenfranchisement of Democrats through “intentional misconduct and illegal behavior, much of it involving Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign in Ohio.”

* There was unequal placement of voting machines.

* County boards of elections were ordered to reject all Ohio voter-registration forms not printed on white, uncoated paper of not less than 80 lb. text weight.

* Access was limited to provisional ballots.

* “Caging”was used to challenge 35,000 individuals who did not sign for registered letters sent to new voters.

* There was restriction of media from covering the election and conducting exit polls.

* There was a prearranged FBI terrorist attack warning in Warren County which kept reporters from observing a post-election ballot-counting.

* There was restriction of foreign monitors from “watching the opening of the polling places, the counting of the ballots, and, in some cases, the election itself.

* Numerous statistical anomalies all deducted votes from Kerry.

* In Cuyahoga and Franklin Counties, “the arrows on the absentee ballots were not properly aligned with their respective punch holes, so that countless votes were miscast.”

* In Mercer County, 4000 votes were mysteriously not in the final count.

* In Lucas County a polling place never opened because no one had the key.

* In Hamilton County, many absentee voters could not vote for Kerry because his name was not on the ballot.

* In Mahoning County 25 electronic machines changed Kerry votes to Bush.

* Dirty tricks told voters to go to false polling places; that Democrats were to vote on November 3; volunteers offered to take absentee ballots to the election office; voters were challenged to prove eligibility to vote. The “Texas Strike Force” (25 people registered at a Franklin County Holiday Inn, paid by the Republican Party) threatened targeted people from a pay phone, if they voted.

* Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell created rules for the Ohio recount (requested by the Green and Libertarian Parties) which would prevent “countywide hand recounts by any means necessary.” The end result was “the Ohio vote was never properly recounted, as required by Ohio law.”

* On December 13, 2004, it was reported by Deputy Director of Hocking County Elections Sherole Eaton, that a Triad GSI employee had changed the computer that operated the tabulating machine, and had “advised election officials how to manipulate voting machinery to ensure that preliminary hand recount matched the machine count.” This same Triad employee said he worked on machines in Lorain, Muskingum, Clark, Harrison, and Guernsey counties.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1383

Mark Crispin Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election and Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)

http://books.google.com/books?id=os5Wdv9TZX8C&dq=mark+crispin+fooled+again&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=6m6VS-HEAoT4M9yitZAN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=12&ved=0CC8Q6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[annabanana]

20. +1 for a very useful post. Thank you for the links and the memory

of the darkest day since Nov '00 and the stopping of the count.

[peace13]

82. Let it be stated here that 100 brave Ohioans were on the Statehouse lawn every Sunday in Dec. 2004..

begging for America to wake up and join us in stopping this theft. No mention above of * flying in on Election Day and meeting with Blackwell. I worked the recount and let me say that all precincts were preselected before the day of the recount. It was very strange. I had been a poll worker for over 15 years but after that, I resigned. It was very sad.

[Echo In Light]

84. Wow...thanks for that. Must've been a tough call for you to make

[HarryTrumanDem]

85. you're forgetting Ohio GOP registration

which significantly outnumbered Demo voters.

The exit polls were a mixed bag. Most matched the pre-vote numbers, showing Bush ahead by a few points. The vote matched the polls (as Zogby and CNN said), and also correlated with voter registration--Ohio's traditionally GOP land. The results matched most of the polls, in other words, and were safely within the margin of error. (some independent polls showed otherwise...). It wasn't FL 2000.

Now, it's possible some fraud went down. The GOP are in general corrupt pieces of sh**t, and Diebold should be watched. Yet--one must admit Demos are not incapable of vote fraud (as some LA democrats are aware of).

Finally, why didn't John Kerry and the DNC press the issue?? It's hard to believe Kerry would not have some high-powered people investigate the matter, lawyers,stats. people, so forth. It was a green or independent who filed for the recount, which showed BushCo victory.

So, a done deal.

[robinlynne]

99. The exit polls were changed to match the outcome, remember?

[HarryTrumanDem]

100. According to some.

It should be recalled that Demos were not in agreement that fraud/tampering had occurred. Zogby's not a conservative, and he insisted BushCo won. The CNN pollster, Mitofsky, I believe, said the same--the pre-vote polls were close to the outcome. Google around. The Dems did not press the issue. RFK Jr's views were the minority.

We should be concerned with vote fraud/tampering--it's entirely possible FL may have gone to Gore in 2000 (then, say grazi to the SCOTUS for changing that)--but those who make accusations based on misleading/inconclusive evidence are hardly different than the Rove/Diebold gang.

Prez. votes nearly always follow registration lines, and GOP reg. outnumbered Demos. It's highly unlikely that GOPers would have voted for Kerry. The independents tend to be mostly right as well--

[Echo In Light]

106. The issue wasn't "pressed" by Dems either = fear of CT accusation, or COLLUSION

I'm leaning toward the latter 100%

[HarryTrumanDem]

107. Maybe..........

Kerry's relative silence was a bit weird.

I'm not really defending the likes of CNN, yet in 2004, having read through a few reports, checked the pollster's data, etc. I was pretty convinced the repugs won by a few points. The old-school Marge Schott type GOP still outnumbers the Dems, though in urban areas, Dems are catching up.

That's not to defend the repugs: there was some intimidation going on-- maybe a few fratboys flicked some Diebold switches. But I've been around LA politics long enough to admit that Demos themselves are not entirely clean in regards to elections.

[Echo In Light]

108. The Diebold debacle occurred in numerous states - wasn't a "few frat boys" involved...

... but was a widespread, co-ordinated effort. Read Mark Crispin Miller's book, Fooled Again - I linked to it elsewhere in this thread.

[HarryTrumanDem]

110. Again...

it's not like the GOP control the election boards/voting booths, though most Demos assume that--not sure of the breakdown, but in most urban precincts of USA, many if not most people working the voting places are Demos . (Conspiracy fetishes can be fun, but also a fave pastime of the right-wing).

This was about Ohio 2004, anyway--and it's very rare when a Prez. election breaks party lines (which some of the pollsters/stats people showed). The Ohio GOP definitely had more registered voters than Dems. The outcome matched the pre-vote polls, stayed within margin of error (and it's not correct to say that exit polls are always accurate--pre vote polls often are nearly spot-on. The official exit-polls were close to the pre-vote polls. Only a few indie. polls were off).


It's somewhat underhanded to indulge in the boola-boola game (sort of Kennedy tradition, however), as in agree that the vote was f-ed, or yr not in the par-tay. The evidence points fairly clearly to a BushCo victory, whether we like it or not.

[Echo In Light]

113. No, it does not. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I still recommend the books!

[HarryTrumanDem]

115. Alright..........

Check out the Ohio 2004 voter reg. data, however--Ohio was nearly 60% GOP. And say Mitofsky's analysis. Even some of the repug. business types, however detestable, put together some fairly convincing counterarguments to the vote-fraud accusations.

Ciao.

[robinlynne]

130. You are wrong. Read up. Read the history of Diebold, ES&S. They STILL control the elcitons,

and the EAC.

[HarryTrumanDem]

134. Read Manjoo's rip of RFK Jr

I linked it for ya:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy

That's for starters. While there may have been improprieties, there was not convincing evidence of vote-fraud--that was the official Dem. line as well.

For one, the OH. GOP didn't really need to f**k the vote, since they had more registered voters on paper. The claims that last-minute OH. Dem reg. caught, or even came close to the OH GOP numbers cannot be supported.

The pre-vote predictions matched the results, and the official exit polls as well. I voted Kerry, btw. Those who decide to misrepresent the facts--or make hasty conclusions, or lie--in order to win are no better than the Rove/Diebold frat boys..........

It's a red state, or was in 2004.

[bikingaz]

127. Lets go back to paper ballots

Stink your pinkie in the green ink so that you can only vote once. Post results
Simple, cannot be manipulated

[robinlynne]

129. It's not POSSIBLE that Fla went to Gore. Florida went to gore every way the votes were

counted. A full study was done at Chicago University. They counted the ballots every possible way. Gore won. A friend of mine worked in that study. They are not allowed to talk aboput it. It was commissioned by the press.

[blm]

131. They didn't have the legal evidence in hand to press the issue....

.

[The Hope Mobile]

111. I remember that clearly. I worked election protection that day. nt

[Blue Owl]

11. We willingly allow

privatized, GOP-owned companies to record and count our votes like it's no big whoop.

In other words, we're trusting the GOP.

Gaaaaaahh!

I say let's go back to hand-counted paper ballots, pure and simple.

No transparency + trusting the GOP = FRAUD.

[formercia]

13. They will be back. They learn from their mistakes.

One day they will take over for good, unless something is done soon.

[Echo In Light]

14. It could be argued, to an extent, that that's where we're at already

[rhett o rick]

52. I believe that the Cabal that runs this country made a deal with Obama

Obama/Rahm promise not to prosecute the Bush/Cheney team and they will run dipstick McCain and ding-a-ling Palin. The Cabal is willing to let Obama flounder for four years while they set it up for Jeb and Liz. Palin is just a distraction. Palin has been artificially inflated so much she wouldnt settle for VP and no republican man would EVER allow a female to be president, especially one as uppity as Palin. It was all McCain could do to put up with her. She clearly wasnt his idea.

[Echo In Light]

81. Sound speculation...although maybe the players themselves don't necessarily decide, per se

???

[truedelphi]

15. I thought that the voting machine kings were still in power.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there were even exit polling numbers showing that the Los Angeles vote was fudged so that the Prop Eight people had the winning proposition, while the LGBT community was stiffed.

[lonestarnot]

33. And that will be different from now how?

[onethatcares]

16. rove is not just selling books,

to the 23 percent that believe bewsh was a great president and that sarah palin is the next coming of the gipper, rove is setting up the next great heist while they're thinking, "he couldn't be on tv if he did something wrong, I mean, he looks good and everything".

Oh, this is history in the remaking.

[ginnyinWI]

65. the problem that I see rests with the media.

Unlike during Watergate, there is no one source of news that everyone will acknowledge as true. While most of us will believe a legit news source like NBC, the wingnuts won't, and there will be no consensus that Rove and Co. stole the election. It will just be that "liberal media" lying to them again, they will shout. The truth seems to belong to whatever side can scream the loudest, unfortunately. No matter how many say the election was stolen, somebody will still be able to scream, "You lie!" and be believed.

[BrklynLiberal]

17. One of the most disgusting cases of closing the barn door after the cows have left the barn.

There is no way to undo the tragedies that have resulted from that fraud....and no one will pay any penalty for its planning and execution.
The only people paying for it, on a daily basis, are the American people....and actually, the rest of the world as well.

[glitch]

25. That barn door has never been closed.

And we keep buying more cows.

[BrklynLiberal]

28. I think you may be correct...

:cry: :cry:

[annabanana]

18. Here at DU we watched this happen in real time.

We know it's true. We've known this since that November. Knowing it is of little use when no one in power is interested in seeing justice done.

[jgraz]

19. People went to jail for rigging the Ohio recount

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4266

[midnight]

22. There are many layers of crimes with this thread. Once this is pulled it will not

stop for a long while....

[Atticus]

26. I confess I still feel a twinge of indignation and outrage about Ohio. But, let's be realistic:

If we are not going to prosecute the bastards for lying us into a war of agression which cost thousands of US lives and billions in US treasure; if we are not going to prosecute the bastards for torture; if we are not going to prosecute the bastards for tapping our phones and reading our mail and searching our damn underwear drawer while we were out; then, I don't see us prosecuting the bastards for a little thing like a stolen presidential election.

Do you, really?

[Enthusiast]

72. I agree with you.

Actually, I can't think of a more egregious crime than torture yet we have a Vice President that admitted to it without fear.

I remember growing up in the 1950s and 1960s, the reason for hatred of the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese was their torture and cruelty.

My country is gone forever.

[Papa Boule]

90. +1

n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Anyone who does not think that Grand Theft Election Ohio 2004 was a crime...

..is an idiot. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of math could see it on election night. That is why Fallujah was attacked the next day.

Unfortunately, lots of Americans are math challenged.

[branders seine]

31. Good thing Kerry quit so quickly.

Or the stink might have resulted in justice.

Close call there!

[blm]

80. Connell wasn't turning in Nov2004 and Kerry's was the SLOWEST concession in US history.

Gore UNconceded when the math changed in his favor.

2004 was lost long before election day. McAuliffe's DNC made sure the party infrastructure was collapsed in states like Florida and Ohio, so the GOP would control the votes at every level of the process - where they are allowed, cast and counted.

[wisteria]

32. I hope whatever th outcome that the questions concerning the 2004 election can finally be answered.

For me,Senator Kerry was the best man in 2004 no matter what the outcome.

[liberal N proud]

34. We were all over it here on DU

We just couldn't get enough people to listen.

The right wing control of the media kept it from really getting the attention it deserved.

[YvonneCa]

36. Jesse Ventura just talked about it on LKL...

...tonight. Seriously. He wrote a book about 'conspiracies' and just talked about the voting machines. It will probably replay at 9...12est.

[DeeDeeNY]

35. Your last sentence says it all --

They are not leaving, they are just preparing for the next round.

[defendandprotect]

37. Unbelievable that they were that close and pretty much proving it --

Just six weeks before his death, Connell had given a deposition in an Ohio lawsuit that accused Rove, Bush, and Co. of something far more serious than merely scrubbing e-mails: the theft of the 2004 Ohio vote. “This is the biggest scandal in our history,” says Mark Crispin Miller, a professor at New York University who has written extensively about electronic voter fraud. “Watergate grew out of a paranoid attempt to disable the opposition. But Ohio was exponentially different. We’re talking about a systematic, centralized attempt to rig the voting system.”

“We decided to try to bring a racketeering claim against Rove under Ohio law,” says Cliff Arnebeck, the attorney who brought the suit, a broad-shouldered man with a Senatorial air dressed in a blue blazer. “We detected a pattern of criminal activity, and we identified Connell as a key witness, as the implementer for Rove.”...





Ultimately, only a full criminal investigation can determine the truth about Ohio ’04 and the death of Michael Connell. Robert Kennedy Jr., who sought Connell’s cooperation during an investigation into the election, believes the current administration should pursue the matter. “I think this is more serious than Watergate,” he says. “Watergate was essentially about winning the battle for public opinion. That’s why the break-in took place—to gather strategic information about Democratic strategy and dirt. But the electoral process remained intact. The Ohio vote undermines the very foundation stone of American democracy. There should be an official investigation. Otherwise this becomes a blueprint for how to steal an election from here to eternity.”




And, Rep. John Conyers at the time was following 2004 in gathering info and he had to work

out of a space in the BASEMENT because the GOP wouldn't give him a hearing room!!

And they did it -- they've all done their work -- and they've proven this --

But this whole thing stinks from the top down -- even when the thieves are gone, other thieves

are protecting them!!

[Cartoonist]

38. Welcome to the Truther club

Yep, it's the same club.You will be laughed at and discredited for claiming the election was "irregular" or for claiming that Bush "knew".

[Loki]

39. George Fucking Bush

Was never elected, NEVER ELECTED!! Not in 2000 and not in 2004. I will never believe he won legitimately, legally or otherwise. He will always be *president Bush. Fucking Conservative ideology is a cancer on our democracy.

[JPZenger]

40. Electronic Machines in 70% of US Precincts Controlled by One Company

MSNBC had an article last week saying that two of the biggest electronic voting machine companies had merged. One company now controls 70% of the voting precincts in the US.

[defendandprotect]

43. And this has been going on since late 1960's . ..!!!

[BeFree]

41. heh

The timid non-action of the American populace to having their votes stolen has damn near pushed me to the edge of telling them: fuck off you damned idiots.

But then I read a thread like this and think: maybe there is some hope?

[tavalon]

58. The hope is only here

That is why I stay even though I'm not a democrat anymore. I don't think socialist underground would be as fun.

[defendandprotect]

42. And we should also keep in mind these computers go back to mid and late-1960's...!!!

In other words, I'd be quesitoning elections back to Nixon/Humphrey!!

There was an investigation back then by two journalists --

they in fact wrote a book -- VOTESCAM - the Stealing of America --

they also passed the info on at the time to the Democratic National Committee --

whomever was in charge of it at the time.

Nixon had every intention of halting the '72 elections if he had to --

See: Huston Plan which was modeled on Operation Northwoods!!

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm


The book is available in paperback for about $2 bucks at Amazon . . .

Sometimes libraries have it -- the website isn't being properly maintained right now

It used to have all of the book available for free --

[goclark]

44. It was easy to know they messed with the votes

But no one had the power to stop them.

[donheld]

46. k & R

[pasto76]

51. not being able to trust the vote is a ginormous issue

the very foundations of democracy is that when I cast my vote, it actually counts.

This SHOULD span the partisan gap, cause if they can do, so can we.

[alp227]

53. I watched Hacking Democracy, and I whole-heartedly agree.

Back in 2000, a right-wing Supreme Court, state officials with ties to Bush and the Ref-ks, and an angry mob together covered the truth with a big thick curtain. This all made intense political theater for the penultimate month of 2000.

Four years later, a Secretary of State with a secret partisan agenda messes around with the bolts and screws and gets away with manipulating his state's election results...and an independent HBO documentary and DU are pretty much the only media that even raises an eyebrow!

Seriously, the Republican fraudsters of the 2000s, from those who dare steal voting rights to the Bush admin crooks who lied through their teeth to start a war that has killed thousands of innocent civilians persistently, need to have their day in court...and pay Americans back.

[happy_liberal]

54. found a picture to go with it

[applegrove]

55. I don't agree. I think the GOP stole the election by messing with early exit polls that

promised Kerry would win. This kept Democrats home after a long days work. If only a small percentage of dems didn't go out to the polls that night would cause the dems to loose in 2004.

[earcandle]

57. Agreed. What to do next?

[saracat]

59. Many on DU outright diss RFK Jr. They called him a nut.during the primary

[SlingBlade]

60. The biggest fraud of all happened after the last election when

Barrack Obama decided to become a republican.

All the rest I can live with, Not that.

[Enthusiast]

73. That's been a rough one for me. nt

[Chulanowa]

64. I love DU

Post an article here detailing the fact that 2004 was stolen... and DU'ers immediately blame Democrats.

Jesus fucking christ

[ginnyinWI]

66. I know.

Blame the victim is a recurrent theme around here. :(

[rfranklin]

79. Of course they deserve blame...they won't act to prevent a recurrence...

They are like the abused spouse in a violent marriage. They just stick around and take it, again and again.

[LittleGirl]

67. The IP address of the server

That's the key to the election fraud. Anybody in IT administration knows that when the IP address of a server changes at 1:30 am, something fishy is going on...and a major change was made. The key to the whole mystery is why that server address changed and where those election results went from there.

[Kablooie]

68. Pfft. Stealing a presidential election and snuffing a guy who can expose it is not worth pursuing.

We should expend our legal system on important crimes like lying about getting a blow job.

[Enthusiast]

74. This is true.

Those awful blow jobs. Who would want one? :rofl:

[EFerrari]

69. Yes. A lot of us worked the information for a very long time.

2004 was stolen from John Kerry. And from us.

[Enthusiast]

71. Robert Kennedy Jr

believes the current administration should pursue the matter?

Is this a joke? Criminality is no longer a priority, unless it for political expediency of the PTB.

[HarryTrumanDem]

87. Yes,a joke.

Unfortunately the majority of the DU'sters consider the Kennedy crime family representative of the Democrats as a whole, if not the sole bearers of Truth and Justice. I suspect Jr. conducted some independent poll in Ohio 2004 which did not match the official polls (ie Zogby, CNN, etc) and was miffed.

(....granted the Kennedy bros may have done some good at times. Yet St. RFK (Jr's daddy) worked with McCarthy as a DoJ prosecutor, and even defended him in the 60s. It wasn't until 64-65 that RFK moved a bit to the left. JFK and Camelot may seem great to some demos, but don't forget the Bay of Pigs--hardly liberal. Similarly for TK--after the 80s TK may have shifted to the left, but in 60s, even in 70s quite conservative, usually opposed abortion, not a pal of unions. Do some research)

[Enthusiast]

121. Aside from 'the' Kennedys

perceived wholesomeness my point is there will be no investigation into Ohio election fraud that took place in 2004. There just won't. And next election, those that perpetrated this 2004 election fraud on us will do it again.

[HarryTrumanDem]

123. See my other posts.

There was not convincing evidence of substantial vote tampering/fraud in Ohio 2004--that was the Demo line, Zogby's, Mitofsky, and others. Any possible vote fraud was most likely negligible (and possibly involved Demos as well).

For one, registered OH. GOP voters substantially outnumbered OH. Dems by at least 5% points; independents were split, but more rightist/libertarian nuts types than greenies. It's very rare that a vote breaks party lines anyway. The official exit polls matched pre-vote predictions, and were within margin of errors. The few indie.polls which hinted otherwise were....few, and indie.

Im not buying it, at least in Ohio. (--And John Kerry didn't really press the issue much ).

But still for Demos, in principle, usually, brutthrr!. Go Gary Hart

[Enthusiast]

125. I don't much care to

be called a "Demo". If you aren't a Democrat why are you on DU?

You aren't buying election fraud in Ohio in 2004? Well, you are just wrong. Sentiments against Bush were through the roof. I have never seen more political signs in my life, almost all for Kerry.

[HarryTrumanDem]

126. Non sequitur

Where did I say that?

Said I wasn't buying the Ohio 2004 vote-tampering story (and I also pointed out the reasons why...like, significantly higher # of registered GOP voters than Dem).

Or are you assuming all Demos do buy it? That's
incorrect; in fact, I suspect most....don't.

Check Mitofsky's analysis of Ohio 2004 for starters

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HarryTrumanDem]

133. Alas,

Reason's not your forte.

By calling me a repub., or insinuating as much, you have committed defamation (not to say your usual uninformed, juvenile whine).

Let's try again. Ohio GOP registered voters substantially outnumbered Ohio Demos, a key piece of evidence that the conspiracy nuts overlook. It would have been a statistical anomaly had Kerry/Demos won, as the pre-vote and official exit polls made clear---. There may have been problems--even some intimidation from repugs--yet the victory was within the margin of error. That doesn't imply one supports BushCo or GOP, except to maybe mental patients.

The Salon guy, Farhad Manjoo, described the situation accurately, sans the RFK Jr hype:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/index.html

"""-- the Democratic Party's report.... -- notes conclusively: "Despite the problems on Election Day, there is no evidence from our survey that John Kerry won the state of Ohio."



The was no need for vote-tampering--the GOP had a clear majority. Mitofsky and Zogby agreed to that. It wasn't nearly as close as FL 2000.

[Enthusiast]

135. I've committed defamation?

Yet you said I'm uninformed, my post is a whine, I'm juvenile and those of us that believe Ohio 2004 was stolen are conspiracy nuts? Funny, there is a huge number of us on DU that believe Ohio was stolen. It's a pretty mainstream position on DU. I guess in your mind we are all uninformed.

You say you are not a Republican yet you call us Demos. Who in the fuck calls Democrats Demos?

In fact reason is my forte. Whatever you are, if you are not a Republican you certainly are no friend of the Democratic Party.

[HarryTrumanDem]

136. Did you read Manjoo's article?

There appears to be a consensus among some DU'sters, not all, that Ohio 2004 was stolen. Not on KOS. Not on other demo/leftist sites. Or, are you suggesting dissent should not be allowed? Really, I think that's it; indeed conspiracy's usually a rightist meme. Democrat Overground, sponsored by KennedyCO.

(note--the moderation had nothing to do with me).

Pax

[live love laugh]

75. And Rove is writing books and is treated as if he deserves respect--he's scum. nt

[Apollo11]

78. Europeans don't trust voting machines

This article was published last year in Newsweek magazine: We Do Not Trust Machines

It mentions a number of countries that have abandoned plans to use voting machines. For example - in The Netherlands they have gone back to using pencil and paper since 2006, when activists and journalists revealed just how vulnerable to fraud electronic voting machines could be.

[Echo In Light]

86. An interesting observation re this thread: note the absence of even the foulest CT deniers posting

[bc3000]

88. As an IT professional, everything I've read about this seems very plausible

Usually stuff like this just seems silly right off the bat. It's usually reporters or the people they are interviewing making absurd claims based on a complete lack of understanding of computers and technology. Of course the lack of techno-nonsense doesn't prove anything, but what they are talking about seems very plausible from a technical perspective.

[Tiggeroshii]

89. Even if they could've... Would you really have wanted JE as our VP?

jus' sayin... :shrug:

[RufusTFirefly]

93. George H. W. Bush had a mistress

Much of the press knew about her but no one said anything.

John F. Kennedy had multiple mistresses.
Franklin D. Roosevelt had a mistress.

I'm not defending any of them, but do you really want to use a person's private sex life as a standard for measuring their worthiness as a politician?

[Tiggeroshii]

124. Only if that sex life has warranted him worthless as a politician

...among the people who will be voting for him. Sure, the democrats are having some trouble right now. But if all the shit about him cheating on his wife with cancer with an illegitimate child, the Democrats would have absolutely no chances of maintaining the presidency and a slim chance of maintaining congress..

[FourScore]

92. K/R

[no limit]

102. I don't see how a man in the middle attack could steal an election, such attack would leave evidance

huge amounts of evidance as a matter of fact.

Assuming the accusation is that the votes were manipulated after leaving the voting site you would be able to go back to the voting locations and count the totals there. If they didn't match the totals that arrived at the server that would be a huge give away. So I find this hard to believe but I'd be curious to see more detailed technical information.

[bbgrunt]

103. the real question is WHY won't the pols (both dem and repuke)

investigate and/or insist on verifiable ballots? Either both are equally culpable and hope to gain advantage by these deceits, or both are in collusion and it really doesn't matter who ends up winning.

I wonder how Kerry would have handled a presidency where the ptb insist you pursue the same agenda B*. Do you really think he would have been any less of a disappointment than O with respect to a progressive agenda? Perhaps he gave up so easily because he knew he was supposed to lose.

[dajoki]

105. K&R

[dchill]

112. k&r

[judesedit]

114. Wake up, people. Go to www.bradblog.com for voting truths. See Clinton Curtis

He's been trying to tell the truth about 2004 since it happened. He created software that took Kerry's votes and threw the election to Bush per GOP "persuasion". Curtis has already testified to it. This government is so corrupt it's not even funny. Try to vote absentee. I know dems sometimes don't receive their absentee ballots in time, if at all, while repukes get theirs practically the next day, but keep trying. Apply more than once. At least there will, hopefully, be some honest, prying eyes during the count. Hell, repukes vote more than once and get away with it. Coulter still hasn't been prosecuted for it. Time for a huge change in the occupancies of our highest government offices. It's up to us, gang.

[nahant]

117. Brad Friedman

Hey ya just beat me to the link.... Glad there are more people paying attention to "Stolen Elections" judesedit!!

[nahant]

116. Stolen Election

There is nothing the Right Wing ie RePukes will do to win elections.
For one of the best site to read all about all the electronic theft of the elections peruse http://www.bradblog.com/
Brad Friedman has been all over this crime for a very long time... Well worth the time to read through all the instances of Election Fraud perpetrated by the RNC, BushCo, Rove et all

[Echo In Light]

119. Thanks for posting! Yes, Bradblog followed this very closely!

[glinda]

118. Refusal to arrest and prosecute is stoking distrust and anger in this Country.

[PatrynXX]

122. yeah which is why diebold gets in the news evertime I bristle

head of Diebold said he'd deliver Bush a win and thats what he did.

[SycamoreFlynn]

132. I had no idea they were this close to proving election fraud 2004...

It takes a fraud to elect a fraud......