America NEEDS single-payor health...right now!

[Mind_your_head]

Single payor would solve sooo many 'problems' and improve america's economy 'right now'/instantly (think the next election too).....

[Mz Pip]

1. Yes it does

but it won't happen. And if we don't get something, anything, now, Single Payer will most likely not ever happen. Not in my lifetime anyway.

[Oregone]

2. "And if we don't get something, anything, now, Single Payer will most likely not ever happen"

If you get something now, especially something that almost completely rejects socialism as a viable solution, it probably wont happen either

[Mz Pip]

3. If the current HCR bill

was so trivial then I doubt the health insurance companies would be fighting this as hard as they are.

Look at the opposition to this, particularly from the industry. Would there be such a need to defeat it if it meant more buck for them?

[Oregone]

15. Why are you mistaking lobbying as fighting against rather than influencing?

The health crisis in the US is reaching critical mass. They know about the inevitability of reform. Its makes much more sense to be in the room during its drafting, than out in the cold.

Those same lobbyists have already been very successful in whittling down the options to either nothing or the Senate bill.

As Kennedy once remarked about a previous version of mandated and subsidized private insurance, "For the private industry, the administration plan offers a windfall of billions of dollars annually. The windfall is not entirely a surplus, since elements of Administration's proposal appear to have originated in the insurance industry itself".

To think these companies have ordered their lobbyists to stand in the cold and scream at a bill is simply naive. They are not idiots and they know where this is going, and have thus acted appropriately:

http://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-lobbyists-descend-on-massachusetts-to-save-the-60th-vote-for-reform-2010-1

The bottom line is that this bill institutionalizes the involvement of private industry in health insurance (while rejecting a mixed market model). Its absurd to think that with the most liberal party passing this from that alien idealogical corner, it will suddenly branch into some socialistic system.

[Donnachaidh]

23. fighting this? The mandate practically has them orgasming in public

Oh please -- the prospect of 30 MILLION mandated customers -- yeah, they're fighting. Fighting to keep from passing out from the excitement over the piles of PROFIT being legislated into their pockets.

:eyes:

[Go2Peace]

21. correct. So split out the regulatory components and pass it! Then let's get to work

for real reform.

[Mind_your_head]

4. The "walls"....the paper thin walls are going to come crumbling down very soon, me thinks

(but what do *I* know....nothing, in fact. Just "common sense")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PErUiAyVoGc

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/john+mellencamp/crumblin+down_20074495.html

[dflprincess]

5. If the insurance scam is the best they could do with the majorities they had

it's a pretty safe bet that nothing else will be done until the insurance industry collapses on its own - and that's what this bill is designed to prevent.

[Mind_your_head]

7. "....and that's what this bill is designed to prevent".

+1

You've "figured it out" :applause:

[Mz Pip]

10. Then why fight it so hard?

especially if it keeps you in business a while longer?

[Donnachaidh]

24. oh please Stop that dumb meme -- they are NOT fighting this.

Yeah, a guy walks into your business and says he's going to FORCE everyone in your country to only buy from YOU -- and they HAVE to buy, or face fines.

Would YOU fight? :rofl: :rofl:

Any *fighting* being done at this point is only kabuki theatre, presented to back up these memes being spewed about how *tough* this bill is going to be on insurance companies.

:rofl: :rofl:

[w4rma]

6. Not going to happen. But a Public Option can is definitely within reach.

In fact, we need to pass the Public Option or we'll probably get hit with HUGE losses in November (at least we'll be rid of lots of DLCers, though).

[Mz Pip]

8. Replaced with teabaggers

I'll take the DLCers over those wingnuts any day.

[w4rma]

9. The only thing we need the DLCers for is to break filibusters. They won't do it so they are useless.

I'd rather have a tea bagger filibustering Democratic bills, rather than a DLCer supporting Republican filibusters of Democratic bills.

[Mz Pip]

11. The flip side of that

is having teabaggers writing legislation. Obama can veto that shit while he's president but if he goes down in 2012 and there are enough of those idiots in the legilature then we are up shit creek.

[w4rma]

13. Filibustering DLCers are useless. (period). Primary them or let them die in the general. (nt)

[Individualist]

12. The only thing worse than a neocon is a neocon enabler.

That's what DLC does.

[w4rma]

16. They chose to filibuster Democratic bills. They could have just voted against the bills. (nt)

[Donnachaidh]

25. not much difference between either group.

DLC is useless IMO.

[leftstreet]

14. I would LMAO if the Republicans ran on Single Payer

yeah, yeah... I know they won't

But still...

:rofl:

[Oregone]

17. It is fiscally conservative

AND after the Democrats pass this bill, they may not find a ton of insurers money in their pockets in the future. The Republicans could actually use it to make a mass appeal to the other private sectors and small businesses, and be rolling in the dough.

But, the Republicans are not fiscally conservative anymore, so it would take a massive crazy transformation to shift into an honest endorsement of single payer.

[Mind_your_head]

18. Were they EVER 'fiscally conservative'? eom

[Oregone]

19. I don't know. I was born just prior to Reagan

So.....maybe way back when? :)

[Go2Peace]

22. Older Republican administrations were actually fairly liberal compared

to the yardstick we use now. Reagan passed a lot of serious environmental legislation when he was governor in California. Nixon passed social programs.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. We'll get it as soon as we get a Dem president and congresss....oh, wait.

Well, as soon as we get 60 Dems in the senate..maybe, as soon as we get bi-partisanship....as soon as the insurance lobbyists join us..or maybe when flounders sprout feathers and become flamingos...oh, never mind.

[Donnachaidh]

26. wait wait wait -- Obama has *promised* once the Senate bill is passed

umm, don't hold your breath. Seriously - don't.