Top Two Posts on DKOS Rec-list about Kucinich

[berni_mccoy]

OK, seriously, Dennis Kucinich. Enough's Enough.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/9/844343/-OK,-seriously,-Dennis-Kucinich.Enoughs-enough.

Just got this update via Twitter from Matt Yglesias:

Horrible. RT @brianbeutler Kucinich confirms he's willing to be the deciding vote "against" #hcr http://tpm.ly/...

Really? Really, Dennis Kucinich?

You're willing to be the deciding vote against healthcare reform?

Come on, people. Enough's enough.

Open Letter to Michael Moore, Kucinich, Jane Hamsher, Howard Dean, Arianna and the rest: UPDATE 3X

by jstipich


Mon Mar 08, 2010 at 07:04:15 PM PST

Kucinich says tonight he'll vote no. Jane Hamsher calls for killing the bill and Lynn Woolsey to resign. Howard Dean and Michael Moore repeat the gloom and doom common wisdom that Dems will go down in flames in the fall. Here's my open letter:

Dear Michael Moore, Kucinich, Jane Hamsher, Howard Dean, Arianna, Adam Green, etc etc etc., other people who are looking out for number one at the expense of 31 million uninsured:

First, stop whining. We don't need your form of advocacy at this particular point in history. We could use a few less open letters from you. You are all looking out for the same person: Number One. Your need for personal attention is blinding you to the fact that you are actually working against 31 million uninsured people who are desparate for affordable insurance options. The expansion of medicaid, coverage of people with pre-existing conditions, tax credits for small business, and subsidies are very real changes that will occur immediately and will be a very real and tangible result.

Oh, those anti-progressive, Kucinich-bashing Kossaks! :sarcasm:

I couldn't agree more with them.

[Donnachaidh]

1. ocd posting.

:eyes:

[berni_mccoy]

3. ocd response spamming.

[babylonsister]

2. Rec'd. I agree, too. nt

[berni_mccoy]

6. My favorite comment from the top post:

Listen Dennis (33+ / 0-)
Everyone on this site, myself included, recognises that you have constantly fought for Progressives and I sincerely thank you for that. But if you vote against HCR..... screw you.

and

from the end of the diary:

The time for games is over. If you vote against health care reform, I will support your opponent.

[zipplewrath]

4. People don't need affordable insurance

I don't mind folks defending the bill, but let's be honest about what it does, and doesn't, do. Especially if they're gonna throw around accusations like:

Your need for personal attention is blinding you to the fact that you are actually working against 31 million uninsured people who are desparate for affordable insurance options

They need affordable health care. People don't die because of a lack of health insurance, they die because of a lack of affordable health care. Insurance HAS been a way for SOME folks to find affordable health care. However, people currently WITH health insurance already can't afford the health care. This bill tries to create subsidies for some to assist them in paying for health insurance. It does practically nothing to ensure they'll actually be able to afford the health care.

[cali]

5. There's 10 billion dollars in the legistation for CHCs

that funding would provide many people with comprehensive primary care including diagnostic care, mental health care and dental. That's pretty compelling to me. No doubt it would save lives. In addition it would provide millions with insurance like mine- comprehensive insurance that costs me $69 a month because it's subsidized by the state. that's also pretty compelling.

[zipplewrath]

8. Under what terms?

$69 a month is nice, if the copays aren't $300 for mamagram, or $1000 for chemo treatment. That's what folks are facing under some plans. What in the bill ensures that they'll get what you're claiming? How many years will those prices hold?

[cali]

10. nope. very modest co-pays, but yes it's a valid concern

re keeping prices down. Still, the CHCs themselves which provide care to anyone regardless of ability to pay are a big deal. In VT, over 20% of the population get quality primary care at CHCs. Bernie says that millions across the country would be able to access CHCs with the funding in the legislation.

I don't think things could be worse than they are now.

[zipplewrath]

16. Careful on your numbers

Saying that 20% of the population get "quality primary care" doesn't really mean much. Huge portions of the population don't even need primary care. Folks under 40 go YEARS without even seeing doctors. These aren't the people that are going bankrupt from lack of health insurance or affordable health care. The people with cronic conditions, the folks that need chemo, or a variety of other very expensive conditions are the ones that aren't going to be much helped by a CHC. It won't help with the expensive equipment and materials that diabetics need. It won't be a place that will handle expensive dialysis or chemo. They are going to be handing out perscriptions for the mildly ill. They'll do a check up on a diabetic and refer them to specialists when the problems become exacerbated. But they won't be doing much to avoid the problems of the seriously cronically ill who can't afford the health care that the insurance only covers at 80%, or with a large copay.

And the CHC's sound good in an urban area, which is where the vast majority of the go (that's where the vast majority of people are). But this will do little if anything for those in more rural areas, which unfortnately is also where some of the most difficult health CARE issues exist. The cost of accessing affordable health care become vastly more difficult when long distance travel is involved.

[mdmc]

9. +1

perhaps we could get the community health center funding in an up or down vote. I could support that and it would provide access to affordable medical treatment.

[babylonsister]

11. What Health Care Reform Means for: Those Already Insured

Pros and cons here. And I'm more concerned with people who can't afford any insurance, selfishly a category I'm about to be in.

http://www.propublica.org/ion/health-care-reform/item/what-health-care-reform-means-for-those-already-insured-1201

[zipplewrath]

19. Yeah, for those insured, not much

If you have a really bad plan, it would get a touch better, but the premiums may go up, or your employer might just drop it and pay the penalty. Even then you might ultimately get access to a plan through an exchange or a private insurer. It will be more expensive though.

If you are in a moderately good plan, very little will change, there will be a couple of benefits like adult children coverage, and a end to pre-existing, etc. although most of that only really matter if you were about to NOT have coverage.

If you have a cadillac plan, it's been a moving target but right now you'll probably have a few years to sort out a new plan before the tax kickes in.

It is the folks that either currently can't afford to use their own insurance, or are going to be forced to buy insurance they can't afford to use that bothers me most. If they are relatively healthy, they really won't need this and it will just cost them money. If they really need expensive health care, there's little to ensure they'll be able to afford it.

The CHC sounds nice, and for some folks they'll be useful. But much of that can already be accessed in another form. And I suspect that they'll be in predominately dense population areas. It also isn't clear how fast they'll actually be up and running, so it might be a while before alot of folks get to use them.


But the out years is where the real trouble lies. There is little if anything in here to address that rapidly rising cost of health CARE. And really, it mostly codifies into law all the things about the current system that contribute to the uncontrolled rise in the cost of health care.

[PVnRT]

7. Someone's a little obsessed

[berni_mccoy]

13. Obsessed with passing HCR, yes, I admit it.

[Individualist]

20. His failed attempts to smear DK are resulting in desperation.

[NJmaverick]

12. K and R for common sense!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[berni_mccoy]

15. Actually, I was a Kucinich supporter, volunteered for his campaign.

I'm originally from Ohio and know his background well.

If you don't believe me, I can always dredge up the links from DU I posted in his support during the campaign.

He's totally gone off the rails.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. The way you use words Bernie, 'support' can mean anything

All you do is bash. It is old as hell. Saying things like 'he's gone off the rails' is the problem. That is a meaningless statement of disapproval, not a reason for that disapproval.
You have been riding your own rail against Dennis with so much joy that I can not seriously listen to you on any subject. It is too vendetta like.
I saw another poster here today say a Republican should win Dennis's seat rather than Dennis. A Republican, Bernie. Are you also taking that stand? Are you aware that others who share you drum beat against this Democrat are also suggesting Republican victory as better than Dennis? Others are. On DU.

[berni_mccoy]

18. Thanks for the personal attacks. When there are no facts remaining and no valid argument

the result is that you resort to personal attacks. I'm used to it. You are wrong and are having trouble accepting it. I understand.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. Not attacks Bernie, just my opinon of your ongoing tactics

About your tactics, not about you as a person. You seem fairly honorable, and intelligent and your politics seems to stem from a love of your family and all of that, just like mine. I am capable of respecting a person while taking issue with some of their methods.
Consider that for a year, this bill has been adjusted to 'get votes' from people who still will not vote for it. We have heard endlessly about Republican ideas going in, although not one Republican vote was won. The President is backing Blanche 'no' Lincoln anyway. They attempted to win Snowe, she ruled it for a time. Max was in charge of all things, leading the way, got some of his way. Stupak has his agenda, and he was attended to. Lieberman alone removed great elements of the bill, gone just for Joe's one bitter vote. So why should Dennis Kucinich's now vital vote be treated any differently than the vote of Conservadems, Republicans, and Leiberman? Why should his vote not be sought via giving him something he wants to vote for? They did it for every right winger in the Beltway, Bernie, now suddenly, a different treatment for the liberal.
Why the difference? Explain that rather than whine and claim you've been attacked for hearing what I think of your tactics. Why should Dennis be forced and Joe Leiberman wooed? Why kiss Republican asses for zero votes, and yet scream at Dennis for negotiating with clearly stated objectives?
Different rules, selective slamming.
And your patronizing snark is not accepted as civility. You don't know me enough to understand me, in any way shape or form, and you are not being asked for that form of personal contact. This is not personal. It is politics. Making it personal is really naff, and childish. And it is you that is doing so. You will address none of the issues I brought up. Not one. You will just patronize and attempt to snark. It is not civil. It is very personal. The way you do it.
And....
It is never wrong to fight to the last for the best we can do. Never.

[Fading Captain]

22. You sound like a party hack

We need fewer of those.