Go ahead and pass it and fix it later...

[kentuck]

by amendments or whichever way possible.

Get it over with. It may be a piece of shit but it's our shit. Pass it and then fix it. Regulate the insurance companies. Cover the uninsured. Bring prices down. Enact portability and coverage for pre-existing conditions. Bring the prices of drugs down. Cover everyone. If other countries can do it, then so can we.

Screw the Republicans and their idle threats. Just do it.

[mdmc]

1. It may be a piece of shit but it's our shit.

:(

[Lerkfish]

2. yeha, just like the patriot act.

oh... wait.

[Moochy]

16. Obama addressed your concern by signing it very quietly

[Winterblues]

18. The Patriot Act did not come out of thin air

It had been developed during the Clinton Administration with only a few differences..

[Lerkfish]

25. actually, the PNAC had drafted it back when Cheney was under Reagan

but that's beside my point that it has not been fixed, amended or changed.

[Swede]

3. That's how it was done in Canada. It's still a work in progress.

History of healthcare link

http://www.healthcoalition.ca/History.pdf

[Romulox]

4. Just like NAFTA. nt

[shotten99]

5. We could always hold out for something better.

Teddy Kennedy thought so, too. But that was in 1971 when Nixon basically proposed the same as Clinton's 93 HCR.

[Pirate Smile]

8. Teddy kicked himself for turning that down for decades. Look at what happened? Nothing.

[shotten99]

15. My point exactly.

Take what you can get.

[ShortnFiery]

22. The only people who will be getting anything are the abject poor. The rest of us

will pay out of our asses - to include declaring bankruptcy to get covered.

We gain NOTHING.

[ixion]

6. No. No. No.

It will NEVER get fixed. Passing and fixing after the fact is lazy, at best.

[kentuck]

7. If it is not passed...

The insurance companies already have the plans on the table to raise the prices through the roof, just like Anthem Blue Cross in California. They are patiently waiting for the Democratic failure. It is not an easy decision but it is the only decision we have at this time.

[Gormy Cuss]

10. The ins. companies are threatening that in order to get this bill passed.

They want this bill because they're afraid of something bolder passing, something with a strong publicly-owned alternative. They may not be happy about the new regulation but there's the potential to add millions of new accounts.

Meanwhile, we either pass this pile of crap in order to close the gap for many of the uninsured or the Dems end up looking like fools who can't get anything done.

[aaronbav]

Here - Let me fix you statement to more accurately reflect

reality:

"They may not be happy about the new regulation but there's the potential to add millions of new VICTIMS."

[subterranean]

24. That would give California even more incentive to legislate a single payer system.

Something that could very well happen if the next governor is a Democrat.

[xchrom]

9. Soo how - when there is a republican majority again -

Do you think they will fix the plan?

Kinda like Medicare and prescription drugs or like welfare reform - then we can have
a democratic prez sign it in.

Fix it later is no solution for a bill this cumbersom and
just plain bad.

The 'fix' in the right hands is just as likely to
make it worse.

[hayu_lol]

12. Oh sure, pass this polyglot thing now...

and then fix it later...just as the Congress fixed Biden's Bankruptcy Bill and the NeoCons Medicare, Part D.

Anyone remember what great bills those two are.

[G_j]

17. their pledge is to dismantle it

yes, some are actually taking a pledge.

[renie408]

28. What is your solution? Nothing now AND nothing later?

That is the alternative to this bill. Do you think the the GOP will bring health care reform up when they are in the majority? Cause I don't think so. Do you think that if this bill goes down, there will be another one behind it that is BETTER? Cause I don't think so. So, the alternative to this bill is...nothing. And do you think THAT helps anybody out? Cause I don't think so.

[pampango]

11. It's either "pass it now and fix it later" or "start over". "Fix it later" is unlikely, but

"start over" is a repub euphemism for no change and business as usual. "Fix it later" may happen in a few years, but not any time soon.

[ShortnFiery]

13. NO! Once that piece of shit puts in MANDATES, the feeding frenzy begins with the Insurance Cartel.

Don't pass this POS at all!!!

[renie408]

19. Right. Cause NO CHANGE is better than less change?

What planet are you FROM??? If this does not pass, THERE WILL BE NO REFORM AT ALL. Zip. Nothing. Nada. If this thing drags on for another six weeks, we get into May of 2010. And nobody is going to to anything that might be unpopular with anybody after that. If this does not pass, one more push for health care reform is dead and it will be another 20 years before anybody tries again. And in that length of time, TWO MILLION AMERICANS could be dead because of lack of health insurance. Is that collateral damage YOU can live with? Cause I got news, your impassioned principles are not going to provide health care for 45,000 dead Americans a year.

[ShortnFiery]

21. The CHANGE equates to MANDATES = more transfer of wealth to the upper 1% with NO Coverage.

The "abject poor" will be taken care of and the "very rich."

HOWEVER, the working poor and middle class will FUND THE WHOLE THING with our MANDATES.

We, in the working classes will have to declare bankruptcy if we should have a significant illness.

VOTE NO! :thumbsdown:

[renie408]

26. Wait...isn't the madate to have coverage?

If we are covering the whole thing with our mandates and the mandate is that we have health insurance...why do we declare bankruptcy if we get sick?

If I get sick RIGHT NOW I would have to declare bankruptcy. Are you trying to say that there is no benefit to anybody in this bill other than the top 1%? Well then, Al Franken is a big fat liar and I think you should call him out on it. That bastard. He seems to think that 31 million more people will be covered. Oh, I know what it is...YOU are a much savvier, more well informed and honest person than Al Franken. Or maybe he isn't a bastard, he is NAIVE. You should write him and let him know the score. Since you are all plugged in and everything.

You do get that if this bill doesn't pass, there will be NO bill, right?

So...who do I trust more?? Some guy on a message board whose entire argument against the current bill consists of a few lines of vague, hysterical rhetoric or Al Franken?? Hmmmm...tough one.

[Marr]

31. Health insurance and health care are not the same things.

I have health insurance, and a chronic, potentially life-threatening condition. I can't visit the doctor as often as they want me to, because I have to pay for the visit myself. I have a high deductible and the insurance companies have, thus far, refused to pay for even a penny of my costs. So I give the insurance company money that I'd otherwise pay the doctor. In exchange, they send me nice letters every couple of weeks saying they refuse to cover (fill in the blank).

With a mandate in place, they will raise deductibles and deny payment even more regularly. Today's "decent" plans will be tomorrow's cadillac plans. Most people are going to be in my situation.

[kentuck]

14. Nobody likes it but the alternative is worse...

The insurance companies are kicking people off the rolls by the millions in order to drive up profits. There are no easy choices. We either pass this bill and fix it or we pass nothing and bend over and take it. That is the choice before us.

[zipplewrath]

20. Actually, it's Baker and Dole's POS

It's not "ours" by any stretch. Cadillac taxes, mandatory purchase requirements, insurance and big pharma protections, prohibition of drug price negotiation. Those are all GOP ideas. Heck, Obama campaigned against some of them. He practically bragged that this was warmed over Baker and Dole ideas from 15 years ago. This ain't "ours" unless you're some DLC/DINO.

[kentuck]

23. The times and the circumstances (economy) make it impossible ...

to get what we want or what we need at this time.

We have to lay the cornerstone and build on it later, when the economy is better.

Perhaps healthcare reform should not have been attempted at all. But it was a campaign promise and no one envisioned the economic crash we are in when those promises were made.

The insurance companies, like most corporations, are cutting corners and cutting waste and cutting coverage, to maintain their high profits. This is at the expense of us all.

If we do nothing, it is going to be much, much worse. At least, we will have the justification for more reform when they pull their shenanigans. Which they will do.

There will not be another chance anytime in the near future to get anything done on healthcare reform. So, if you want to desert the game at this time, just be aware of the circumstances that await around the corner. Do not make your decision hastily.

[renie408]

27. Damn you and your rational common sense!!

It is a lot more fun to take passionate kamikaze stands against the current bill and tank any chance of any reform at all! That way we prove just how LIBERAL and PROGRESSIVE we really are!! Give me a UNIVERSAL GOVERNMENT FUNDED PUBLIC OPTION or give me DEATH!! Cause if I can't have EVERYTHING I WANT in this health care bill, I want nothing at all!!

And that is exactly what we will all get if this bill goes down in flames. Nothing. Not for another twenty years. (And BTW...that 'death' thing will become more and more probable, too)

[bridgit]

29. I get a kick out of McConnell, he says every republican candidate is going to be running...

on a 'repeal HC' platform. Is he/are they so stupid to think that 'repealing HC' is a position they are able to prevail upon? That siding with planks that deny HC for pre-existing conditions, dragging 30mil people back into hospital parking lots to grub for used band-aids, etc - are those even positions at all? And for that matter repeal what? The tactics of obstructionist RW intimidation, bigotry and hooliganism they are already on record as preferring over reasoned governance?

There's a thread here abouts about the "Blood Bath" to come by election 2010...firstly, am I the only one that sees republicans being swept away in a blood bath of their own blood? Though more importantly: the gist is that its all Dems fault and coded by Truman and rightly so is that "When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." - makes sense

But I now say that given the choice between a republican and a bigoted entry level neo-nazi tea-nut-bagger voters will choose the republican every time - the bitch kitty fit for republicans is that what used to be the GOP has been over run by fleas, deer ticks, mange, *and* bigoted entry level neo-nazi tea-nut-baggers so that voters looking for republicans will not be finding them *in* the republican party

So yeah, just do it bring it on - I know I'd appreciate watching republicans trying skip out from under what they really are fleas ticks baggers and all

[Marr]

30. Why not? Worked with NAFTA and the Patriot Act. And those

billionaire tax cuts will surely expire, as promised.

I don't know about you, but I won't buy a car that doesn't run, even if the salesman promises to fix it later.