I don't want Democrats Defeated - I want better Democrats ELECTED

[Political Heretic]

And I said exactly that.

Here's the situation we have right now:

The Party stopped working for me and my friends and family long ago. It stopped standing in solidarity with ordinary working class Americans when the financial elite started pouring as much and sometimes more money into the National Democratic party as it does the Republican Party.

Republicans: The national Republican Party, a wholly owned subsidiary of our financial ruling class, appeals to base emotion of people - specifically feelings of anger, resentment or a feeling that one is not getting a "square deal" by re-channeling those feelings against designated enemies - gays, "socialists," "terrorists," etc. The Republican Party's job is to drive radical policy whenever they are given the opportunity.

Democrats: The national Democratic Party, a wholly owned subsidiary our financial ruling class, appeals to people who like to think of themselves as moved by reason, science, or history over raw emotion. The Democratic Party's job for the financial elite is to stop any substantial changes in direction, all while convincing their supporters that they are really "trying."

To reiterate: they're job is to stall or weaken any policy that might change the direction of this corporate take over of every facet of our society, while keeping people who might otherwise be more likely to organize for radical change complacent and pacified - spinning their stalling into rationales for why people should continue to support them.

So when Republicans are in power, the radical agenda of the financial elite is pushed forward. When Democrats are in power, they function as "gatekeepers" - making sure that no real change to agenda of the financial elite takes place, and that any policy passed contains enough exceptions, exceptions and loopholes so as to keep business-as-usual protected all while providing the illusion of "choice" to the American voter.

Here's where the "I'm don't want Democrats defeated, I want better Democrats ELECTED" part comes in - the same thing I've always said. The same thing I said earlier today:

The financial elite took over as controlling interests of these Parties - and we can take that controlling interest back.

Nothing about that suggests a "third party" or Defeating the Democratic Party. It suggests saving the Democratic Party.

And doing so will mean voting corporate sponsored Democrats out - even if it means some short term small scale political victories for Republicans amidst the turmoil - and replacing them with people's representatives serving the people's interest first, financial elite second.

This is about short term costs for the sake of long term crucial gains - for the American people, and for the Democratiic Party - the restoration of a Party we can believe in!

As I said before, There's quite simply no other way. If you believe the status quo is unjust and unsustainable. If you don't believe that, then just have the fucking courage to admit it. Say you vote for corporate sponsored employees of the financial elite because you're quite fine with how things are today and don't want them to change. Say you benefit from the system as is, and don't want that to change. Just tell the truth for once. I might be able to at least respect that.

[laughingliberal]

1. You meant real ones, right? nt

[cali]

2. If things are as you describe them

then the only way to change things is with a third party. just go do it. really, it's clearly NOT possible to restore the Dem party you describe. And you certainly don't give ANYTHING like a practical road map to achieve it.

[Political Heretic]

3. I completely disagree.

It's more the possible to restore the Democratic Party as a party that stands with workers rather than rulers, and indeed its what we should be advocating.

The Democratic party who elected presidential nominiees who called out "economic royalists" and declared "I welcome their hatred.

The history of the Party is on my side. Not yours.

[cali]

So what's the plan, Stan?

how do we do this? And electing better dems isn't an answer. That's the goal, not how to achieve it. And what dems in Congress do you find acceptable? Aside from Dennis, anyone?

[Political Heretic]

23. I don't need a plan before I'm allowed to start talking about the problem. But I have one anyway...

I can talk about the problem any time I want, as soon as a problem is recognized.

What to do about it? I'm working on it right now.

1. persuasion - used every mechanism you can find to persuade people to your point of view, that change is essential.

2. organizing - use your time and resources to become involved in community organizing and local advocacy. Change that is challenging established paradigms isn't top down, its bottom-up. Always has been, and it always will be. It's why one of my favorite organizations in the nation is ACORN - as they continue to help communities organize themselves and advocate for their own best interests, and as they continue to help poor communities have a poetical voice - god help the powers that be on either side of the isle. So I volunteer for them. Electing better Democrats locally lays a foundation for electing better democrats regionally which lays the foundation for election better Democrats nationally.

3. We need to be preaching like our great leaders of history preached, and by the power of their passion stirred others to action. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7541683 We need a new civil rights movement for economic justice.

How do we do those things? I'm doing the best I can. If you have any additional suggestions, feel free to let me know. But if you think I am in anyway deterred by people how say "how are you going to do THAT?" and then gloat because they assume there's no answer, you are kidding yourself.

I'll do everything I know to do, and be open to any suggestion anyone has on what more I can be doing.

How bout you? You said in another post that you don't have any problem with my goals.

Then please help us! I don't have all the answers about how we achieve everything, all I know is that we need to work together.

The the American Revolutionaries went to war, they did so before knowing what government would replace the one they were seeking to bring down. After their victory, a long, hard process of debate produced the US Constitution.

We don't have to have a perfect 100% finished blueprint for what's next before we accept that what we have in broken and needs to be undone.

[Political Heretic]

15. PS - no matter how many times you and your friends try to pin the "3rd Party" hat one me, you fail.

I absolutely want the Democratic Party to return to historical roots. I absolute do not advocate or care about third party movements, other than to say that I stand in solidarity with any individual - regardless of label - who prioritizes the needs of workers over service to rulers.

Starting to notice people crashing threads throwing around "third party" bullshit, then ALERTING threads claiming that they're about Third Party advocacy.

Guess what? You will fail.

I believe both the bulk of DUers, and moderators and administrators are smarter than such stupid distortive nonsense.

[cali]

20. I'm not trying to pin anything on you, dear. And you're being just a wee bit

paranoid.


guess what? I haven't alerted on any of your threads. I haven't even unrecced them.


now, do stop weaseling and tell us all how we achieve this. and just what dems do you think are worth re-electing?

My problem isn't with your goals.

[Political Heretic]

25. You're probably right.

[Oregone]

4. FDR/Truman Democrats, or do you not give a fuck?

Because I think there is a difference

[Political Heretic]

5. I don't understand what you are asking?

[Oregone]

10. Do you want ANY Democrat elected?

Example: Lieberman switches back and runs against a socialist independent, who would you support?

Is there power in the magic (D) next to their names?

[Political Heretic]

11. Dude all you have to do is read anything I've ever written to answer that question.

I want to take the Democratic Party back for workers. Once upon a time Democrats nominated a man for president who called out "economic royalists" and declared at the Democratic national convention "I welcome their hatred.

Yes, FDR/Truman Democrats are what I'm talking about. We need to fight back against this takeover of the party and aggressively back pro-worker Democrats and oppose anti-worker corporate suck offs.

Even if that means some hard bruising political fights, even if it means we lose a few short term battles - in the long run its CRITICAL to both the health of the Democratic Party and the health of the nation.

[Oregone]

12. Maybe Im just clarifying for emphasis

:)

Youll get recs from Baucus supporters too, you know, just by the title

[Political Heretic]

14. Hehe cheers for people smarter (or more devious) than me :)

:toast:

Thanks for coaxing me into clarification. :D

[Demeter]

6. I'm With You

Corporations broke free of the restraints of our Founding Fathers, who went to war against one (East India).

We have to war against a hundred or so. Piece of cake...I hope.

[Echo In Light]

7. I don't think the party, nor our system, can be saved - but if they want to serve to HELP people...

... then I don't care if they've a D, or an I, or a G(reen) by their name! ;)

k/r

[Political Heretic]

8. I think the Party can be saved.

But that is only a secondary priority to me. If the Democratic party can become the vehicle for a workers voice, I would be thrilled.

But ultimately, I stand with those who stand with workers rather than rulers - whatever their designation. I'd rather it was "Democrat" but if not, so be it.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. You make an important distinction...

And it's one that I agree with.

K&R

[maxsolomon]

13. I don't believe the Democratic party has EVER represented the interests

of "working people". This country has always been a plutocracy, and the government has always been about protecting wealth. that's why it is comprised of the wealthy.

there have been anomalous exceptions to this generalization, but they were instituted to avoid revolution.

[Political Heretic]

17. Having the party nominee call out "economic royalists" and say "I welcome their hatred"

is a good start. Even if you don't think he was sincere, or that the Democrats in congress sufficiently stood with workers, it would still be a benefit for the rhetoric and language to be reintroduced into our public discourse.

Get me? Even if Democrats never were and never will be the absolute perfect worker's party - there was a time when they spoke truths and the public listened. And some pretty significant things were accomplished during that time both for Labor and for the general health and welfare or all Americans.

[maxsolomon]

26. i don't expect absolute perfection

and i recognize what has been accomplished in our history and how much is in danger of backsliding.

but i think we overstate the dems' allegiance to labor and working & middle class americans. we want to believe that our government functions according to the ideals that Jefferson put in the Declaration and Constitution, but it rarely does. it functions as it was intended: it is fundamentally a plutocracy, and the 2-party system preserves that. i vote democratic because i have no sane option to vote further to the left - the GOP is just too dangerous.

that said, i am 100% behind Obama in 2012. i am a realist.

[Political Heretic]

28. neither do I

I only expect fidelity to guiding principle

[Oregone]

18. Part of protecting the wealthy involves catering to the working people

Staving of revolt, preserving stable marketplaces, and ensuring the preservation of private property rights involves enacting liberal policies. Sometimes there is a symbiotic relationship between the classes (which a liberal party in government is supposed to facilitate before it turns into a conflict). Although the representation of the workers is a Means to an Ends that is favorable to the rich, it can still be a necessary and beneficial representation of them.

The only problem would be if you see a capitalistic system that produces disparity and poverty being preserved by avoiding a revolution (and a beneficial restructuring that isn't guaranteed), and thus, contributing to more aggregate suffering over a longer period of time. Some of these questions have no simple answers

France could be an example where the government failed to facilitate a positive relationship between the two classes, and a revolution brought about a government operates more in the favor of the workers than otherwise possible.

[Political Heretic]

16. In case you need a quick reminder, see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7481629

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[Oregone]

21. Intellectualism is evil

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. You are educated evil

and might have to kill
the evil ONE teaching
educators before you
can learn that 4 corner
days actually exist -but
all Cube Truth denied.
Dumb ass educators fear
me and hide from debate.
They are paid to teach a propaganda book - not
Cube Truth - for which
they would be fired. Evil
teachers betray students,
as ONE is a Death Value.
Cube 4x4 voids 1 & God.
USA ripe for holocaust.
Man evolves from teenager -
in cube metamorphosis
but ignores teenager to worship a male mother,
guised in woman's garb,
churchman called father.
Adult god is adult crime
upon their own children.
More holocaust deserved.
The 12 hour or 1/2 Day clock is an intended EVIL against humanity -
indicting every human on Earth as Dumb, Educated Stupid and Evil -
for imaginary Cubed Earth has 4
Days within simultaneous rotation.
One God would equal a God Dunce
as Humans evolve from Children.
****************************
Americans are dumb, educated ONE
stupid and they worship ONEism Evil.
It is not immoral to kill believers, for the stupid bastards EVOLVE from son
or daughter who precedes them. NOT one damn human adult has ever been
created - for ONLY babies are CREATED - and every adult has within them the LIFE given by children who DIE to give-up their lives to their parent
image - so their mom or Dad can live. Adults are EVIL to deny they evolved from children - and claim their adult EGO image is a god likeness. Such damn evil AMERICANS should have their tongue cut out for the heinous hoax they are perpetrating upon their own children. I know now why the Jews
deserved their holocaust - worshipping their own adult EGO image as a damn god whil ignoring and betraying the very children who sacrifice their LIFE
so their Moms and Dads could Live. There is nothing godly about stupid
and evil adults who betray their own children who gave them Life. I AM
WISER THAN ANY DAMN MAN OR GOD WHO EVER EXISTED. IF THE
HALF AND HALF CO-CREATED

JESUS RETURNS TO EARTH, I WILL PERSONALLY KILL THE BASTARD MYSELF. ALL CREATION OCCURS
BETWEEN AND AS OPPOSITES. YOU DUMB-ASS, EARTH, THE UNIVERSE
AND EVERY LIVING THING IN IT

[Oregone]

24. Stay out of my poetry book

[Political Heretic]

27. kick.

[JoeyT]

29. The job of Republicans is to shift

the Overton window as far to the right as they possibly can.
The job of the Democrats is to stay solidly within that window so they can claim to be centrists. That and to be absolutely certain they avoid moving the window back to the left at all costs while legitimizing the crazy Republicans.

Edited to add: Well, maybe not their jobs. I seriously doubt it's some grand conspiracy. I think it just ends up working out that way.

[Political Heretic]

30. Right, on that last sentence.

It's not about a conscious conspiracy, as though somehow every Senator or Representative is twisting a dark moustache and laughing maniacally.

But its how money rules politics, and its the effect that our system of money-driven politics plays out.

[blindpig]

31. Good luck with that....

[Political Heretic]

36. Getting people to agree that the democratic party need radical change in its representatives

...would be a step in any positive direction.

Whether the transformation of the Democratic party back to a party more connected to working families will happen or not is not something I can predict. No that's not true, I am skeptical to say the least.

But persuading people to agree that the current state of the Democratic Party - especially in its leadership and national representatives - is unacceptable and at odds with working class families would be a great first step.

If they Democratic Party can be salvaged and become a vehicle for a unified working class voice - great. Am I holding my breath? Of course not, but its still worth talking about.

[blindpig]

42. Dunno about that...

good players, bad players, does it matter in three card monte?

Your skepticism is well placed, examine the reasons for it and try to make it go away, ya can't. Hope is for chumps.

[Suji to Seoul]

32. It's simple. Rahm and Kaine support them, I don't.

Dean supports them. . .I do!

[Political Heretic]

33. kick.

[DevonRex]

34. This post was locked yesterday. The paragraph that advocates

voting Democrats OUT of office is still there:

"And doing so will mean voting corporate sponsored Democrats out - even if it means some short term small scale political victories for Republicans amidst the turmoil - and replacing them with people's representatives serving the people's interest first, financial elite second."

[Political Heretic]

35. voting bad democrats out in favor of democrats that stand with working families seems fine to me.

But if you want to rip the statement out of context, be my guest. I've been through this privately with mods already.

People keep saying we can't primary our own democrats because if we're not united then Republicans will win and they are worse.

That's crap. If Republicans win some short term gains amidst our reformation of a Democratic party committed to working American families first, that's a price worth paying for the long run. At no point did I say anything about voting for Republicans over Democrats.

I've been through this in private with DU mods/admin. So thank you for your concern.

[upi402]

37. Seems acceptable to 'primary-out Kucinich'

Don't know if that means it's OK to get a Dem ousted in the primary or not. Or just OK to oust Dems who act like Kucinich-Democrats.

[Political Heretic]

39. Whatever floats your boat.

I'm focused on opposing Democrats that place the whims of the financial elite ahead of the needs of working families, and supporting Democrats that place the needs of working families ahead of the whims of the financial elite.

I'd love it if you'd join me in that effort. If not, go with god.

[onenote]

38. what do consider to be a "short term small scale poltical victory" for the repubs?

At what point does handing over seats to the repubs stop being "small scale" and how do you propose to make it "short term" in an environment in which the vast majority of incumbents are reelected?

Is it an acceptable "short term" "small scale" victory for the repubs to give them enough votes to control the Senate? The House?

[Political Heretic]

40. Whatever it takes. We shouldn't be afraid to fight a war because it might be "hard"

[onenote]

41. but we should be smart enough to fight a war in a way that isn't suicidal

[Political Heretic]

43. Agreed - but we need to flesh that out.

It seems that you and I would have different opinions about what to do, but it sounds like something that should be discussed.