ABC Evening news just showed the video of the out of control Prius

[liberal N proud]

He couldn't shut the car off!

The car was towed to a Toyota dealership. Hmmm? I would think it should have gone to an independent shop who could evaluate the vehicle before Toyota had a chance to tinker with it.

Incredible that this guy was able to control the car and get it stopped with help of the California Highway Patrol.

WOW!

[Hepburn]

1. I am having a hard time believing that people think he was faking.

I just read that there have been 56 fatal accidents -- not deaths, but accidents -- caused by this aceleration problem.

[doc03]

15. Gee I think about a month ago something like 16 deaths were

caused by this acceleration problem and that was over several years. Now all of sudden one comes up every day, I kind of think money has something to do with this. I accidently put my Toyota in drive instead of reverse when backing out of my garage I should turn that in as a stuck gas peddle and get those scratches fixed on my bumper.

[Hepburn]

20. Here is a link to the number of deaths as of February of this year:

"At least 56 people have died in U.S. traffic accidents in which sudden unintended acceleration of Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles has been alleged, according to a Times review of public records and interviews with authorities."

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/28/business/la-fi-toyota-deaths-mainbar28-2010feb28

Tell your theory to the family of the CHP officer killed in the San Diego crash. Ooooooops, forgot, no can do ~~ everyone in the family died in the crash.

http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/410*307/Saylor-Accident-Scene.jpg

Go polish out those bumper scratches, OK?

[doc03]

24. I said maybe a month ago there were like 16, that article was

10 days ago. I would like to know how many people have blamed their fender benders on the stuck gas peddle since this news came out? I bet those numbers have soared over the last few weeks.

[Hepburn]

26. Read and comprehend...

FATAL accidents...NOT fender benders.

[doc03]

32. I know that but my point is everyone that had family involved

in a fatal accident involving a Toyota is going to make that charge. I'll bet the reports of all types of accidents caused by the sudden acceleration of Toyotas have exploded over the last few weeks. I think I will go make a claim for the bumper on my Toyota I damaged when I put it in drive instead of reverse.

[Orsino]

54. The first report I heard was very sketchy...

...and I have to believe that someone, somewhere is going to fake a problem/accident.

This doesn't look fake.

[maxsolomon]

2. i still don't get why neutral was not an option

but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[stopbush]

5. Agreed. The driver said he was afraid that if he threw it into neutral

that the car would stop too abruptly and he'd get rear ended. Wha?

Obviously, the guy has never driven a standard transmission, where you use the neutral position all the time. When I drive standard I usually put the car in neutral when approaching a stop, to begin decelerating and avoid riding the brakes. Even with an automatic transmission I often put the car in neutral when waiting at a light. Why have your car in gear if you're not going anywhere?

Putting the car in neutral should be the FIRST option if this happens. A car that isn't in gear isn't going anywhere, no matter how fast the engine is revving.

[OnyxCollie]

27. Sometimes when I shift from drive to overdrive

I am concerned that I might go too far. Shifting from drive to overdrive and going too far puts me at neutral. If the car I was in was going 94 mph and I couldn't stop it, I'd be worried of going too far from drive to neutral (if it didn't have overdrive) and ending up in reverse.

(Although I saw on Mythbusters that a car thrown into reverse will just keep rolling. But it's easy to do these things when not in a state of panic. Mythbusters also showed how easy it is to get out of a submerged car. As long as you don't panic, you should have plenty of time to hold your breath, allow the car to fill up, and open the door.)

[Confusious]

7. I'm not sure about the prius

But in a regular standard transmission, the gears are engaged so you can't pull it into neutral while pressing the accelerator without the clutch.

There's a trick where you don't need the clutch, but that wouldn't have helped in this case. You have to pull it out of gear right after releasing the accelerator pedal.

[Tesha]

18. Actually, you can shift into neutral with no clutch or throttle change.

It takes unusual force and it's not good for the tranny if done
often, but it can certainly be done.

Tesha

[cui bono]

28. Prius doesn't have a normal transmission though.

I don't understand it all but I know that it's very different so I'm not sure about shifting while driving. I probably should find out since I have a 2010 but they don't have that problem, just the annoying brake thing that isn't really much of an issue, certainly not one of safety. I know you cannot put a Prius into neutral if it isn't turned on though. that is more than annoying and needs to change. What if you're stuck in an intersection with a broken down car?

You can, however, turn the car off while you're driving. That driver probably didn't hold the power button down long enough. I think it takes 3 seconds then the car shuts off.

If anyone wants to know more about the technical facts you can check out priuschat.com. Those guys know everything there is to know about a Prius. They take them apart, hack them, mod them, and put them back together. I've been meaning to read up on this since I'm surprised at all the sudden new cases myself but I've been too busy lately.

[Tesha]

35. I agree -- my comment was in regards to a conventional geared manual transmission.

And I think you're going to see Toyota reprogram everybody's
cars so that three quick presses of the "Start" button (or whatever)
kills the engine just as dead as the current "3 second press".

Nissans (and the brand-mate Inifinitis) already have this feature.

Tesha

[Mopar151]

46. Usually, yes, but not a certainty

Depends if the engaging dogs are back-cut, and how much. Not to mention how strong the forks, etc. are.

[Hansel]

11. The women that testified on Capital Hill said that she put her Lexus

in every single gear including reverse and the car continued to accelerate. The car is being totally controlled by the computer with absolutely no manual override. It is infuriating to know that someone allowed them to be put up for sale and driven on our roads.

Toyota's new sales pitch is something like "NOW our cars have manual override brakes". OMG, really? How quaint.

[truedelphi]

21. Having experienced a similar event occur while driving my Ford Van

A 1989 van, I found it hard to shift into neutral.

When I finally got the van to be going less than about twenty miles an hour, I did with effort get it into neutral.

But when the van was going faster, I couldn't budge the automatic column to "N"

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. In another thread, it was posted the driver admitted to being quite scared

Under those circumstances he may not have thought of it or could not do it correctly (Prius has a funny shifter). Understand a tear down is being done today. Hopefully we will have answers soon on this one.

[Supersedeas]

56. exactly

[elocs]

3. I still have yet to hear or read why the car was not placed in neutral

or an explanation on a detailed NPR story about it why it could not be placed in neutral. The suggestion I have always heard about a stuck accelerator is to put it into neutral. :shrug:

[Jersey Devil]

8. I was told sometimes you can't

A teacher an an auto tech school told me that some cars computers operate in a way that prevents engine damage and that since tossing a car in neutral while pumping gas would cause severe engine damage the computer prevents the transmission from disengaging.

[harkadog]

12. Your teacher doesn't know what he is talking about.

It can be put in neutral or shut off. He was faking it.

[Mopar151]

44. Dude, you're blowin' smoke

With electronically controlled transmissions, the lever is just another sensor. When the lever is moved, the computer, in its infinite wisdom (!), by the grace of Jobs and Tauring, MAY at its options, open or close solenoid valve(s) in the transmission.
If the warranty department has to do with it (you think?), there are reasons not to let the transmission slam in & out of drive, neutral, and reverse. Neutral drops, J-hooks, and "Rockfords" to name 3.

[harkadog]

47. You are trying to BS

You can shift into neutral in a Prius. If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be driving that car. You do know ABC was caught faking this don't you? http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/08/report-abc-news-faked-at-least-one-part-of-runaway-toyota-repor/8

[Mopar151]

49. Prove me wrong. Go ahead,

Show me a direct mechanical link between the shifter and the transmission's forward clutch packs, that also disengages the hybrid drive system.

[harkadog]

50. The only way I could "prove" you wrong is to drive a Prius

with you in it and put the car in neutral. Now that is not likely to happen is it? I certainly can't "prove" anything posting a few words on a political message board. Besides I can tell that you have your mind made up on this and even if you were in the car you would then say I staged that also.

[Mopar151]

52. Photragraphs of the parts

Or factory shop manual pages are acceptable. Until then, you're flapping your electronic gums...

[pipi_k]

4. The cop said the guy was actually almost standing on the brakes...

and that he could smell the burning brakes. The cop pulled his cruiser in front of the car, which had slowed down with the application of the regular brakes and emergency brake. Presumably, he also heard the engine revving up even when the driver exited the car, so I don't think he (the driver) might have been stepping on both the gas AND the brake at the same time.


I only mention that because I read where some people said the whole thing sounded sort of "suspicious".

[Hepburn]

25. The accident that tells me the car is the problem?

The one where the CHP driving instructor and his family were killed. If he could not control the damn car ~~ I doubt if anyone else could either.

[quinnox]

6. Toyota's name is mud

I saw the report on CNN this morning. This is a disaster, I wouldn't touch Toyota if they gave me one for free.

[pipi_k]

9. They couldn't pay me to take one, even...

Their trust level is less than zero now.

Or it should be.

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. I would take one for free in a heartbeat!

And I know how to put it in neutral as well.

[aquart]

16. And I hope you get one.

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. Thanks!

Let's pray together! lol :) :)

[Bozita]

10. This was the lead on the CBS Evening News tonight

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. Here's the video link

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas/toyota-stuck-accelerator-hits-94-mph-driver-rescued/story?id=10046912

[Renew Deal]

31. Thanks for posting that.

Toyota is run by lying scumbags. It's sad.

[here_is_to_hope]

19. I smell a rat...

"After several attempts to shut off the car by using the ignition button, he was successful."

Yeah, after twenty minutes.
The report says he got the car slowed to 55 before the officer pulled in front of him, didn't see any skid marks or anything.
No way a Prius is going to have enough torque to overcome both braking systems, three if you count the 'B' mode.
Yeah, there is a problem with Toyota's but this guy set this up.

[doc03]

22. I agree, I just can't believe someone could drive 20 minutes

like that and not have the brains to put the damn thing in neutral or shut it off. It's a Prius not a Corvette I can't believe the brakes wouldn't stop it either. I see $$$$$.

[Hepburn]

23. So...

...how did the driver fake the smell of the burning brakes?

:shrug:

[doc03]

29. All I would have to do is go out and set my parking brake

and drive a mile or two and you would smell burning brakes, easy to fake..

[here_is_to_hope]

33. Done it...

An E brake lightly set will get pretty hot in a mile or two.

[Tesha]

36. A rear caliper on my Audi 80 Quattro got stuck once.

On this car, the parking brake was applied by mechanically
jacking-out the pistons in the rear brake calipers and a bad
parking brake cable led to one of the rear brakes getting
stuck applied.

It was nighttime and the car seemed drivable, but I
rechecked conditions after about a half a mile and when
I saw the disc brake rotor *GLOWING A DULL RED* (as in
"red hot"), I decided I probably shouldn't try to drive the
forty miles home.

Yeah, an E-brake lightly set *WILL* get pretty hot pretty
quickly. ;)

Tesha

[here_is_to_hope]

38. I you ever watched the Daytona 24 or the Lemans, you can

see the bright red of the rotors as the cars speed by.
I drive Volvo's, fast, and even my turbo 850R doesn't have enough power to overcome the brakes.
Personally, I would not drive a car that takes so many choices out of my hands.
I feel for those who have died but I think there is some Darwin at work here.:evilgrin:

[Tesha]

41. Did you read the link to "Car and Driver" that someone posted earlier?

They tried over-powering the brakes on three different cars
including a 500 HP Mustang; 'couldn't do it, although the
'stang at least put up a good fight.

The key, of course, is that people have to apply the brakes
like they really mean it. Between the loss of vacuum boost
when the throttle is wide open and the eventual heating of
the brakes, you have to make a really serious first application
of the brakes so you get the car stopped before you lose the
stored boost and before the brakes toast, so no pumping
the brakes and no genteel applications; check your rear-view
mirror and slam 'em on 'til you've got 'er stopped!

Tesha

[Mopar151]

48. Yup, I saw it

But does the Prius anti-lock brakes prevent it from locking the front wheels enough to stop the engine? The driver described "shuddering", which is typical of ABS actuation. ABS has varying degrees of "nannying". and it may not allow the driver to kill the engine with the brakes before they overheat. And the brakes are not much bigger than they need to be, and don't have the heat capacity or cooling of brakes on a high-performance car. And, under normal circumstances, the regenerative braking system works with the brakes, instead of against them, as the hybrid drive system does at full power.

[Hansel]

30. Did you hear the testimony before Congress that the woman gave

regarding the Lexus she was driving? She couldn't do anything, but tried everything. She tried using the brakes, put the car in every gear including reverse, tried to turn the car off, everything.

Also there is a 911 tape of a man driving a Toyota with his children and wife in the car. He was terrified because he could not stop the car and begged the dispatcher to help him. The tape ends when he tells the operators he is approaching an intersection and tells the 911 operator to pray for him. He ends up flipping the car and he and his entire family are killed instantly.

According to this man's brother he was a very experienced and good driver and would have done everything to try to stop the car.

You are not going to see the type of skid marks you would if the wheels were locked. And that is impossible if the brakes don't work.

[doc03]

34. This was a Prius, the guy could have opened the door and

stopped the thing like Fred Flintstone and Barney.

[liberal N proud]

37. Do you think the cop would pull in front of him and lock up the brakes?

A car pushing against the back of your car and you lock up the brakes would cause some serious control problems for one or both vehicles.

Just getting in front of him and slowing the car down had to take nerves of steel.

[here_is_to_hope]

39. Shoulda 'pitt' manuevered that speeder....

I kid, I kid.

[Dappleganger]

60. Well I'm glad that YOUR life wasn't in any danger.

It's appalling how people on this board think they know everything, as if they were there trying to help him too. There was a CHP right alongside for chrissakes. Toyota is at fault, THEY are the rat!

[Midlodemocrat]

61. I agree. I don't understand why shoving the car into neutral

wasn't an option. I've drive Priuses. I currently drive a 2007 top of the line Chrysler minivan and puttin it in neutral is a no brainer. I have to do it when I car pool in order to get the auto doors to open to let kids in/out.

I remember learning to drive and my dad saying that neutral was designed with smaller 'teeth' in the gear shift so that it was far easier to get into neutral than any other gear. In other words, you could do it while you were moving.

Also, why not hit the ignition button? Or burn out the emergency brake?

Not making sense to me. Not at all.

[James48]

40. I live in Michigan. I drive GM.

I drive GM Cars and Trucks.

Push on the gas pedal, and it goes.

Push on the brakes, and it stops.



What more do you want from an automobile, anyway?

[Mopar151]

45. Not to shut the brakes off?

Which GM's do-ass ABS is notorious for, at innopprutune moments.

[Dover]

42. As I've driven around I've seen so many Priuses on the road and no one seems to be panicking

except the media.

I asked an elderly couple getting out of their Prius in a parking lot if
they were concerned about the reported problems. The man just rolled
his eyes and the woman replied that she thought the whole media thing was
way overboard. She reported that they absolutely love their Prius.

[Blue_In_AK]

51. My daughter has a Prius,

an older one outside of the recall period, but she absolutely loves it and says she'd buy another one in a heartbeat. She says it's the best car she's ever owned.

[wordpix]

53. yeah, you love it until you're driving a runaway Toyota

The incidence of these problems is relatively small but you still don't want to be "the one."

[Dover]

55. I think Japanese cars in general are much preferred over American cars

for good reason and based on drivers' needs as well as experience. Particularly in the area of
fuel efficiency and environmental improvements.

And so it is interesting that the media is coming down so hard on Toyota just as
American cars are trying to market at last, their own moderately eco-friendly gas efficient models.
I'm guessing Toyota presented a major roadblock (pun intended) to getting Americans to
switch their preference and loyalty to American cars.

Poor competitive spirit and lack of timely innovations while turning a deaf ear to growing consumer anger for several years got American auto companies in this fix, NOT Toyota. So if you can't beat them, ruin their name.
Corporations CAN and DO play dirty pool. And there may even be larger trade issues with the Japanese
for which they are being 'punished' via Toyota. You never know.

I think Toyota, while perhaps having mechanical problems with some models, is being sabotaged, and the sensationalized media circus reminds me of the search for 'weapons of mass destruction'.

[Mopar151]

57. Toyota is the one playing "dirty pool" here

They have been ducking reaclls and buying off problems for YEARS. They have lost any edge they ever had in quality, and have stonewalled issues with the requirements of OBD2 - like the ability to record/retreive crash data - since 1996, when OBD2 was required.
I'm sorry if conspiracy theories and brand loyalties are easier for you to fathom than control systems technology, but that's life.

[Mopar151]

59. More Toyota shenannigans.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7884904&mesg_id=7885978

[upi402]

58. How about a video of one of our troops in harms way in Afghanistan?

What, no new missing white chicks or cruise ship leapers?

[RagAss]

62. Amen !