Are there any DU'ers here, anymore who support us OUT OF AFGHANISTAN/IRAQ?

[KoKo]

If you are out there...then tell me why you would NOT SUPPORT Congressman Kucinich on his Bill?

Here's what he's calling for. Where do YOU Disagree with him?

Can you put out an argument against what Kuchinich is calling for in his bill ...rather than attack the Man? :shrug: I'm not hearing many DU'ers on "Democratic Underground" these days calling for an END TO THESE WARS. Why is that? If you can answer can you do it on this thread? If you don't know then post why you don't. THANKS!

---------


Kucinich War in Afghanistan Privileged Resolution Update


Click here to view video.

http://kucinich.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=vi...

Hi, Dennis here,

This week a privileged resolution will be brought to the floor of the House of Representatives to make an attempt to try to get America out of the war in Afghanistan.

This resolution, which I wrote, requires the President to remove the troops within 30 days from the time the resolution is passed and no later than December 31st, 2010.

There are many reasons why we need to get out of Afghanistan; I'll just name a few.

We're spending hundreds of billions of dollars - total waste - because the Afghanistan central government is totally corrupt. We have a thousand troops whose lives have been lost. And many more injured, some of them permanently. Countless individual Afghanistan citizens have been killed or injured as a result of this conflict.

We should take heed from the Russian experience in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not going to be conquered and we have to understand that the weight of history has been against our efforts from the start.

Now we have to determine whether or not America will take a new direction in Afghanistan. Not to go in deeper with the surge, but to get out. That's what is going to be discussed this week in Washington.

Please, help us. Please, get the word out. Please, contact anyone who you think could be influential in getting members of Congress to pay close attention to this vote. The vote will occur on Wednesday.

Thank you, as always, for your help and for your determination to see a more peaceful world created.

Thank you.
Dennis

[mmonk]

1. He has my support.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

2. I stand with Dennis.

[pleah]

3. K&R I have always been against both wars and want them ended asap. n/t

[G_j]

4. I support him

and thank him for all he has done to end the wars.

[rug]

5. Here.

[Mari333]

6. yes knr

[Aaria]

7. Our soldiers home and the criminals in jail. nt

[truedelphi]

13. Amen. n/t

[gimama]

41. from Your mouth to the Universe's ears!

I LIVE for that sweeet day!
welcome to du!:applause:

[Swamp Rat]

8. k&r

:patriot:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. We have a lot of vociferous born-again chickenhawks now that "our" guy is in charge of the killing.

And, even more "not as bad" apologists for the continuation of Bush's policies who call themselves "liberals".

[557188]

40. [phone]

[TornadoTN]

83. Knocked that one out of the park!

Bravo and well said.

[flyarm]

92. AND A TRIPLE PLAY!! EOM

[polly7]

10. Moi!!!

I want every single person who is not a citizen of these countries out. Enough horror and suffering already. Take the 'war on terra' and focus it onto what it was .......... a crime. Try those responsible, and stop the devastation and ruin of innocents and already poverty stricken lands. Lock up the greedy SOB's who made their fortunes from it, too.

[L0oniX]

32. +1

[Individualist]

11. Yes, and I support DK.

[mochajava666]

12. I support Dennis

He is right as usual (except for his current stance on health care reform).

[Hissyspit]

14. Of course. K&R

[leftstreet]

15. K&R

[bvar22]

16. Here.

I opposed a military invasion and occupation from the start.
The proper response to a handful of foreign criminals hiding in the deserts of Afghanistan would be International Law Enforcement.
The Military Invasion was MORE than Osama could have asked for, and every day we engage in a hostile occupation in Afghanistan is a day we give to the terrorists.
We have made a relatively unkonwn criminal who was already exiled from his own country into an international HERO/Martyr for the cause of criminal terrorism.

Bill Clinton was able to successfully capture, prosecute, and imprison the original criminal bombers of the WTC.
(and I bet you can't even name them.)

He did NOT:
*Spend a Trillion Dollars we don't have

*Torture ANYBODY

*Invade and Occupy ANY foreign countries

*Kill a single innocent civilian

*Lose a single American

*Spy on Americans

*Pass a "Patriot Act"

*Tear up the Constitution

*Commit ANY War Crimes

*Make ANY criminal sociopaths into international heroes

We SHOULD have used the successful Clinton Model of International Law Enforcement.
We COULD/SHOULD leave the Middle East tomorrow and START using methods that produce results.

Out NOW.

[Rhiannon12866]

22. +1. Nobody seems to remember what happened in 1993,

That those WTC bombers are now behind bars. How different this country would be today if we'd still had Bill Clinton in office on 9/11, or Al Gore. It's my guess that the second attack would never have happened. ;(

[L0oniX]

33. +2

[Dragonfli]

54. Everyone knows ....

That when a serial Killer starts stalking a city and taking lives, you carpet bomb the city!
I think it is in the FBI handbook isn't it?

Sure some citizens may be inconvenienced by a minor case of death, but bombing say Boston may be the only thing the serial killer understands!
If you are lucky he may even be among the dead.

Isn't that how they got son of sam? Or am I missing something?

[Rhiannon12866]

17. I stand with Dennis, as well, always have.

I have a "Support the Troops" ribbon on my car which says "Support the Troops, Bring Them Home." It's been there since 2004. ;(

[KoKo]

18. A Person of True Principle is hard to find these days...

A Politician...even rarer. He's the "real deal." But, that kind of character just isn't the way Politicians and Financiers operate these days. So, they trash him and malign him...and send "Operatives" out to demean him.

Glad to see there are still folks who can see through the crap they throw at him.

:grouphug:

[Rhiannon12866]

19. I agree. Very well said...

I've listened to Dennis ever since he opposed the invasion of Iraq and was called "unpatriotic" for his efforts. DK has been leading the fight for the American people, always places them over politics, and that's the reason that he'll always have my support and respect. :patriot: :hi:

[G_j]

20. bump

[Robb]

21. Of for the love of Pete

I don't know what DU you've been visiting, but my last poll on the subject found a little less than 20% of DUers support the strategy in Afghanistan. And I haven't heard a single person say we should stay in Iraq. Not one.

[Dragonfli]

23. I support Peace, I guess that makes me a piss poor Democrat now that "we love war too"

What the fuck happened to most of the people here that hated war until the brand name changed?
Fucking hypocrites plain and simple.

(I have not been here forever but for quite some time and what we all once opposed is now OK with so many here. look at the insurance protection bill?, war DADT..unfortunately the list goes on)

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Well said, my friend, and welcome back!

And that appears to be the controversy du jour, Dennis Kucinich's opposition to the health care bill which favors the insurance companies. :-( Everybody here loved him when he stood in opposition to the invasion of Iraq in 2003. *sigh* :hi:

[Dragonfli]

48. I am learning that like the "new democrats" as well as many I thought were sincere here

they were only interested in the war issue as a way to use people of real principle to help them politically.
Like the corrupt politicians they worship think it is a game and are only concerned with a team win.

Like dying people are nothing more than points on a board somewhere. Like suffering is only something to capitalise on for a vote or two.
They said what we wanted to hear with no intention of helping anyone, just words once flowery that have now become vile as the dying and the suffering have served their purpose.

The victories were handed to them for a reason: TO MAKE IT STOP! Instead they play the same game as those they once pretended to oppose as they adopt the same platforms and now turn on us that were sincere all along.

They love insurance companies now, want to give them more money and power to kill the wives (or husbands) of others like they killed mine.
All for a buck and a point on their sick little scoreboard.

They have become what I thought we were all fighting.



Not your fault tho, sorry to rant but as you can see I still have anger issues when suffering is cheered on and the few honest people are vilified.

Nice to see a friendly face anyway, I hope all the fur-babies are well. :hi:


I will admit tho I didn't know this place would turn into support central for murder, torture, the further destruction of rule of law and the bill of rights.

All so easy, just a simple re-branding was all it took.

[L0oniX]

58. +1000000 ...and I'm sorry for your loss. Peace.

[flyarm]

94. Dragonfli, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! Many of us feel exactly the same as you and your rant is well

recieved by many of us here!

thank you for your rant..I too feel exactly the same!

fly

[L0oniX]

30. No shit. This place is infested with military lovers. It's discusting.

I am on the verge of wondering why I am a registered Democrat. Peace!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XYy470fpCVM/SwIybCCiGJI/AAAAAAAAAZw/ZGaYN4e9s74/s1600/Kent+State+shooting.jpg

IMO ...FUCK WAR AND FUCK THE MILITARY!

[NeedleCast]

24. The withdrawl date fro Afghanistan isn't logicstically possible

FOr the most part, I agree with the bill, but I think it's typical Kucinich grandstanding. He knows it isn't going to pass.

[bvar22]

34. And THAT is a good reason to ....

NOT Stand Up and Speak the Truth?
.
.
.
Not in MY World.

[NeedleCast]

68. Why not just stand up and speak the truth

without proposing a bill that you know isn't going to pass? Especially a bill that does not set a withdrawl date that is reasonably possible? We should have never been in Iraq. We should have been out of Afghanistan years ago, but the whole "we need to be out within a month of this bills passing" (which won't happen) is unrealistic to anyone who knows anything about military logistics.

That's the difference between a well thought out bill that might have some shot at success and bill that's nothing but grandstanding because it has no chance of success.

[timtom]

76. All right, then!

What if Alan Grayson had just done what Kucinich is doing? Would it be grandstanding then?

[hatesthegop]

26. TOWN HALL MEETING

On this subject in Tacoma, Washington with US Representative Adam Smith at First United Methodist Church-Tacoma, Washington this Saturday at 10AM

[gimama]

39. let us know how it goes, will Ya?

& welcome to du!:woohoo:

[kgnu_fan]

27. Bring Them Home - I support IVAW

[gimama]

36. awwwwsome!

& welcome to du:hi:

[L0oniX]

28. K & R of course ...and reduce the fucking 700+ billion a year in defense spending...

to a level that is reasonable and comparable to what other large nations spend. Stop being the fucking world police.

[western mass]

29. I don't know what DU you're reading

There's alot of support for getting the hell out.

You do realize this latest military offensive in Afghanistan was mostly about winning the hearts and minds of American tv audiences, right? Guess it worked.

[Tailormyst]

31. I do support us out of both wars

And I do support DK's bill.

[gimama]

35. End these wars NOW..call Your Rep.Wed..!

PLEASE! urge YOUR "representative" to support DK's Resolution.
contact info: www.congress.org
Thank YOU, KoKo!

also:
www.march20.org
and
www.answercoalition.org ..
info for PEACE rallies, including transport to/from DC
o,btw, there will be a 'tent city' on the mall, beginning March 15

[EFerrari]

37. Kick

[David Zephyr]

38. Of course, I support Dennis. I opposed our initial invasion of Afghanistan.

I was of a handful here at the DU who opposed the invasion of Afghanistan and posted so (it's in the archives).

That said, we went "to war" with we knew not who or what and here we are almost nine years later fighting we know not who or what.

One trillion dollars down a hole. Hundreds of thousands dead. And Osama bin Laden lives on.

We need to get out and Dennis is, again, correct.

K&R.

[laughingliberal]

42. Works for me. nt

[557188]

43. Dennis seems to be the sole voice of the Left in the Democratic Party

I stand with Dennis.

[slay]

44. right here!

:hi:

[Greyhound]

45. Yes. though spending less time here since we came up on the DLC radar.

I swear, they could suck the joy out of an orgy.

[Desertrose]

46. We can afford trillions for war but can't provide healthcare to Americans?

We have no reason to be there...never really did.

But since when do those in charge give a shit about the American people except to collect $$ from us.....

Dennis is a voice of truth and reason...maybe that's why so many don't like what he says.

[lonestarnot]

47. Combat troops are going to be out of Iraq in August.

:shrug:

[Dragonfli]

49. It will be easy RENAME them "support personnel" see! (hire more contractor hit men too)

Everyone knows contractors don't count, and they can kill more freely when it comes to civilians, no repercussions at all for them.

[lonestarnot]

52. Those would be personal choices. What can be done about that?

[Swamp Rat]

53. Dragonfli!!

:hi: How are you doing? :hug:

[Dragonfli]

55. been better, been worse

Good to see you here! :hug:

[Desertrose]

78. Hey Dragonfli!!!!

Its been a loong time...hope things are better for you these days.
:hug:
DR

[Political Heretic]

51. We want ALL our men and women home from a place they never belonged to begin with.

[Political Heretic]

50. Bring *ALL* our Troops HOME. Not just in the ME.

[panzerfaust]

57. Doubt that our 'troops' in many places would want to come home

Germany, Spain, Italy, UK, Australia, Japan, Micronesia ... getting to live in places like that is one of the attractions for joining the military!

Of course, "troops" pretty much only refers to USA - not USMC, USN, USAF so a lot of the more choice duty stations would not be adversely affected by 'bringing the troops home'.

About our two current wars: Declare victory, come home (or redeploy to some of the locations listed). Not just the 'troops' either (though USA is doing the lion's share of the fighting) but all servicemen (and women).

[Political Heretic]

81. I really don't care.

[Stinky The Clown]

56. Yes, there are. But on DU, if one says that, one is instantly set upon by the blind rabid .....

..... supporters of a certain president.

[Dragonfli]

61. Very Mavricky Sensey types that speak in talking points? Say it isn't so!

[asdjrocky]

59. I'm for peace.

See, I still think it's way more cool to make love not war.

[LWolf]

60. I stand with Dennis. nt

[Desertrose]

79. Me too, LWolf!

:hug:
DR

[LWolf]

110. .

:hug: :hi:

Good to see you, DR! Send me an email one more time; my 'puter got fried last summer, along with everything on it, including my address book!

[Echo In Light]

62. k/r

[freddie mertz]

63. I agree with Dennis on this one too. K & R.

[RedRoses323]

64. K&R

:toast:

[tekisui]

65. DKnR

[xiamiam]

66. of course I support him..can anyone provide a legitimate reason we are in afghanistan?

[leeroysphitz]

67. the wars are just as illegal and immoral under the Obama admin as they were under the * admin. n/t

[kctim]

69. ALL DUers support us

"OUT OF AFGHANISTAN," but some of us realize, just as President Obama does, that you cannot just say "everybody out" and hope everything turns out right.
I'm not attacking DK, his heart is in the right place, but he doesn't have clue.

[harkadog]

108. And just what is this "clue"?

You apparently have it. We are all breathlessly waiting for it.

[kctim]

111. Knowledge of the situation

and if DK thinks we can just pack up and leave that fast, he has no clue of the situation.
Begin drawing down and leaving? Absolutely! Once the intel points to use being able to do that and I am going to trust those who actually see and know the intel, like President Obama, over somebody who does not, like DK.

[harkadog]

112. Did you trust Bush?

By your logic you must have because he had access to more intel as you call it than any of us. Basically the same command structure is in place as was during the Bush years as far as Afghanistan is concerned. I was in Afghanistan in 2002 and yes that was 8 years ago and things change. But I have kept in touch and there is no magical intel because we never have had any real assets on the ground. The tribal warlords will go where the money is and as soon as they get a better offer they switch. Yes we can pull out now. We could easily have our men out by the end of the year at the latest. Most of our equipment is worthless to retrieve because of the Afghanistan dust storms which are relentless. Out Now!

[Vincardog]

70. I stand with Dennis K & R

[DisgustedInMN]

71. I agree with him 110%...

.. however, the day to day, bread and butter problem of not having a job OR receiving Unemployment Benefits dropping my income to $0, is just a little more of a pressing issue for me.

So ex-fucking-scuse me if I'm somewhat distracted from YOUR particular ONE ISSUE.

[newtothegame]

72. No. Dennis is not as "inspirational" as Obama and wouldn't have made "history" if he was elected. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Out not NOW, LAST WEEK!

He is right of course, but the "centrists" will make fun as well

[Kaleva]

74. Most everyone here supports withdrawal from Iraq/Afghanistan. It's the details that divide us.

[timtom]

75. Are you kidding???

I've supported Kucinich from the very get-go! And I'm one of his more vocal supporters on DU. (Actually, there are quite a few -- yourself included).

Here's an email I just received:


"Today's the day.

This afternoon we're going to have a vote on whether or not the United States gets out of Afghanistan or stays there indefinitely.

It's time that Congress weighed in. The Constitution makes it very clear that the War Powers are vested in the Congress. Unfortunately, a series of Presidents have made decisions to take the country into a war and to keep the country in war without seeking Congress' expressed permission. So this is, in fact, a Constitutional issue and that should be of interest to members of Congress from all over the nation, whatever their political persuasion.

And it should also be of interest to people that we can't afford this war. When you consider the fact that you have 47 million Americans who don't have any health care, they don't have it because they can't afford the premiums. You have 15 million Americans out of work. You have another 10 million Americans, at least, who could be losing their homes this year due to foreclosure. You would think that we have other priorities. You would think that it would be time for us to focus on things here at home.

Well, today is our first opportunity to send the message not only to the White House but to the world that America is ready to work with the world community to meet the challenges of global security.

But we're also going to start taking care of things at home. Because Americans deserve the security of a job, the security of housing and the security of health care. And we have to start arranging our priorities to make sure that we take care of people here in this country instead of trying to tell people all over the world how they ought to live.

Thank you.

Dennis"

[TheKentuckian]

77. I'm not a dove but I see real cost in blood and treasure and little

to any substance in even hope of rewards of security, way of life, or even resources.

These wars are a waste by definition.

[TornadoTN]

84. I'm right there with you.

I don't consider myself a dove or a hawk, as I want peace first and foremost but I understand the necessity of war in certain, extreme circumstances.

These wars have a real and an untold cost that is far beyond anything we can gain from them. In my view, these wars were manufactured to feed the continual expansion of the military-industrial complex.

[MsLeopard]

80. Absolutely support it

Get us out yesterday!

[Blue Owl]

82. Our plea

seems to mostly fall on deaf ears.

Constantly beating war drums will do that to ya after awhile.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

85. I stand with you.

We need to get our asses out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

And no leaving behind 10s of thousands of American soldiers and calling them "support troops" or some other bullshit.

[Sebastian Doyle]

86. I have NEVER supported either useless occupation. Not Iraq. Not Afghanistan.

I didn't buy the lies about Afghanistan when Chimpy said them, and I don't buy them now. It's all about pipelines and poppies.

[mike_c]

87. kucinich speaks for me....

I support him 100 percent.

U.S. out of Irag and Afghanistan!

[branders seine]

88. ASAP

faster than ASAP

[gimama]

89. house debate on the Cspan, NOW!

just called MY rep in DC..will YOU?
contact info at www.congress.org

[flyarm]

90. Yes I want out yesterday! And Yes I support DK on this and many other things he is the only one

making sense of!

This is not my democratic party doing this shit..if this is the "NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY" ..I FUCKING WANT THE OLD ONE BACK! now..IS NOT SOON ENOUGH!

[Puregonzo1188]

91. I do and I support Kucinich's resolution.

[arthritisR_US]

93. I'm with him on ending these stupid wars. n/t

[Ignis]

95. K&R

Seems there are still a few of us around. The trick is not to allow ourselves to be shouted down by a vocal, violent minority.

[gleaner]

96. I want the wars to end ..

I support Congressman Kucinich and his bill. There is no movement to end these wars any other way. One of the things I most admire about Kucinich is that he has been anti war all along. It is a very brave stand to take. I have called my Congressman several times about ending the wars but they all seem to be preoccupied with this failed health care fiasco. Sometimes I wonder if that is not why there is so much noise about it? It is a vintage Bush tactic, and this administration is neck deep in them. My impression of Kucinich is that he tells it straight and has all along.

[Hepburn]

97. Raising hand...

...yes, me. :hi:

[Lerkfish]

98. I have always wanted us out, and I support his position on getting us out.

but you seem to imply there would be conflict for some reason.

[katty]

99. got my support

[Bjorn Against]

100. I absolutely support him, and I will continue to protest these wars every single week

[BigBro72]

101. Pipeline

People need to know these wars are about money (primarily oil money) like all the others, not terrorism or freedom. Hate to see Obama keep talking about the terror war in Afghanistan. They were basically about the Iraq oil fields, the Afghan pipeline, and strategic positioning in the middle east. More people believe now that Iraq was about money but alot don't know about the pipeline. Media is virtually silent about it because most people don't support war for profit. Good to see Dennis talk about it. You have my support.

[pasto76]

102. One reason is I do not agree with him...

Afghanistan is still a good fight. You remember those bad guys that planned trained and staged there that attacked us? Yeah, they're still out there. I think we should kill'em.

Somewhere back then folks like you started equating a very questionable occupation of Iraq (of which I was part) with the war in Afghanistan. They are not the same. Yes, Bush fucked up both of them, but nonetheless...

Iraq is a whole nother story. I do not feel that it is worth one more soldier's life. lets leave tonight.

That whole "Global War on terror" remember, started off on the right foot. Then it landed in Iraq.

SGT PASTO

[Ken Burch]

103. I'm with Dennis

It's never made any sense for us to be intervening in the Middle Eastern Islamic countries. Nobody in tnose countries wants us there, and our presence automatically discredits anyone who aligns themselves with us.

It's time to admit it's a dead loss and get out.

[Jackpine Radical]

104. I have always opposed both wars.

I opposed them when Bush started them & I haven't changed.

BTW, haven't seen you around for a while, KoKo.

[jtuck004]

105. Outta there. Now. That said

the reason we are battling the Taliban there is because we deserted the people of Afghanistan after they beat Russia for us.

If we abandon them again we will get a lot of people killed.

So when I say outta there, I mean we start providing schools and supporting their efforts to control their own country, vs training them to create the country WE want.

[wouldsman]

106. I support Dennis

Actually, he supports us. Time to get out is now . Regarding Dennis's stand on healthcare- his centrist dem opponents say "pass the bill, we will fix it later" and rail against DK for wanting to fix it now. WHO DO THEY THINK IS GONNA FIX IT LATER? Blanche? Olympia? Ben? not likely. If they take a pass the bill fix it later approach, it will be up to the likes of the DKs of the world to fix it. Except, there is only one DK. He can't fix this thing single handedly, and the centrists sure aren't showing that they have it in them to do it themselves.
I am with DK, he is with me. It seems that he is single handedly representing about 25% of the US electorate.

[eagertolearn]

107. Won't give more money to the democratic party until we have health care

for all and when we are out of the war! These are the reasons I fought so hard for Obama...still waiting.

[scarletwoman]

109. Out now! k&r nt

[tango-tee]

113. Right here! Get out now! n/t

[Dr.Phool]

114. Yeppers. Me.

Dennis is one of the very few with a conscience.

[fascisthunter]

115. Kick! (nt)