Porn: Good for us?

[HuckleB]

Scientific examination of the subject has found that as the use of porn increases, the rate of sex crimes goes down.

Read more: Porn: Good for us? - The Scientist - Magazine of the Life Sciences http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/57169/

"Pornography. Most people have seen it, and have a strong opinion about it. Many of those opinions are negative—some people argue that ready access to pornography disrupts social order, encouraging people to commit rape, sexual assault, and other sex-related crimes. And even if pornography doesn’t trigger a crime, they say, it contributes to the degradation of women. It harms the women who are depicted by pornography, and harms those who do not participate but are encouraged to perform the acts depicted in it by men who are acculturated by it. Many even adamantly believe that pornography should become illegal.

Alternatively, others argue that pornography is an expression of fantasies that can actually inhibit sexual activity, and act as a positive displacement for sexual aggression. Pornography offers a readily available means of satisfying sexual arousal (masturbation), they say, which serves as a substitute for dangerous, harmful, and illegal activities.

Some feminists even claim that pornography can empower women by loosening them from the shackles of social prudery and restrictions.

But what do the data say? Over the years, many scientists have investigated the link between pornography (considered legal under the First Amendment in the United States unless judged “obscene”) and sex crimes and attitudes towards women. And in every region investigated, researchers have found that as pornography has increased in availability, sex crimes have either decreased or not increased.

..."

--------------------------------

http://www.the-scientist.com/article/display/57169


Perhaps, for once, some unintended consequences are positive.


:hi:

[liberal N proud]

1. As long as all those who are involved in the production are consenting

[Echo In Light]

17. Over 1000 women annually attempt to work in porn

... according to a friend of mine who for many yrs ran a small, ma & pa video rental store who had, over time, developed a business acquaintanceship w/someone who worked within the industry.

Another de-bunker is the Big $ mythos: this used to be very popular among women who found the sex acts in porn films beyond the pale, and so would frame their perception of how Other Women Can Do 'Those Things' as, well, they're making gazillions of dollars! ...ha, well, no. A woman who has become a recognized 'porn star' can make a few grand per scene. While the unknowns are making substantially less than that.

Porn is a strange topic ... there are aspects to it that I both agree and disagree with, depending.

[Blue_Tires]

52. there used to be a well-known DUer

heavily connected in that industry...i can't remember his name andhaven't seen him around for a few years now...

[Echo In Light]

55. Well, I'm not a big defender of that industry, but it's silly to suppose porn actors are 'forced'

... into performing en masse. I mean, how many hundreds of thousands or more porn titles are produced each yr?

[SidDithers]

24. +1...

the natural extension of Freedom of Choice, and sanctity of person, are that adult women (and men) should be trusted to make their own informed decisions about how they use their own bodies.

Decisions made under duress, or through coercion are another matter entirely.

Sid

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

108. It isn't a matter of consent so much as it is a matter of exploitation,

To my eternal shame some of the biggest lowlifes of the porn industry are family and the women they use are more often than not stupid girls fresh off the plane from fuck knows where who are broke and desperate in L.A. not having been cast on the O.C. twenty minutes after arriving and probably didn't come to California so they could be sodomized without a condom on camera in a motel room for $100 for some sleazy gonzo porno.

Few of them ever make much money for their efforts and eventually go back wherever they came from, several unknown actresses who worked for them committed suicide, others fall into drugs and prostitution. It astonishes me to this day that nobodies daddy has wandered in there with an AK-47.

There are no happy or edgy stories around there that lend themselves to a cable reality series,

[ensho]

2. I don't believe the study

porn is not good

[HERVEPA]

4. Not too judgmental, are you?

Care to elaborate?

[NashVegas]

6. I Reckon It's Mixed

I believe the stuff about porn acting as a valve, the trouble is that the underlying issues still exist and go unattended. Meantime, as a woman, thanks to the outrageously widespread availability of porn (which I never really had anything against but DO resent the newfound promotion of a "porn lifestyle", for lack of a better way to put it) I'm now expected to generally look like, dress like, and be as readily available as a porn actress by an increasing number of potential mates.

[dustbunnie]

15. You're not expected to look, dress or act iike a porn star.

That's baloney, and speaks only of the men you know. If you respect yourself, so will others.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

33. Yeah, after all what do those "scientists" know about anything?

The world is flat, too. :eyes:

[GoneOffShore]

75. And was only made 6000 years ago.

I know, I saw it on Ken Ham's show.

[NeedleCast]

44. Don't like facts that disagree with your world view?

[cliffordu]

63. Then you're doing it wrong.

[chrisa]

64. Why?

I disagree completely. I don't personally like porn, but if people want to use it, that's perfectly fine. I'm just curious why you think porn is bad?

[troubledamerican]

101. "One size fits all" mentality: What's bad for you is bad for everybody

[Mari333]

3. sex crimes are not about sex, however. they are about violence and control

they have nothing to do with sex. someone merely uses their body as a weapon to murder another person psychologically, spiritually, and often, physically.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. Gibberish

I know somebody told you that was a smart answer but it's nonsensical. The second-wave gibberish has set back humanity terribly.

Sex crimes are about sex. Criminal sex.

Rape is a violent act. It is a violent form of sex.

Not all sex is good. (There is very little that is good in all forms.)

[Mari333]

21. it is not about some guy who is horny who sees some random woman and attacks her for satisfaction

it is about some guy who hates women with a vengeance and uses his body to destroy her.
period.
thats what rape is. it is someone using their own body to murder another person in many ways.

porn is an entirely different scenario.

he can use a gun to destroy the woman, or a baseball bat, or his penis. its violence. period.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. The question, however, is what does rape have to do with porn?

I don't get what you are saying.

Maybe, if I can't tell if you are distancing rape and porn or equating rape and porn, you need to rewrite your thesis.

[Kablooie]

39. It can be either.

A random forced rape probably is about some kind of control or vengeance as you say.

But there are also date rapes. A situation where the man is expecting and prepared for sex then denied it. This is not about violence or control but a need to release pent up sexual tensions. The result may be violent but that would not be the aim.

This is the sort of conflict that can be decreased with porn. It allows a conduit for the release of tension without infringing on the rights of someone else.

[chrisa]

60. It's about sex, but you would have to be

Screwed up and violent in order to commit a rape. It's a type of anti-social behavior.

[apocalypsehow]

102. Spot-on, the entire post.

:thumbsup:

[jobwithout]

104. Gawd

Probably the single most ignorant written statement I have ever read.

[Lilith Velkor]

58. Yeah, a raped woman might as well be dead.

That's a mighty feminist attitude, right there.

[chrisa]

61. What?

Where did she say that? :eyes:

[Toasterlad]

65. Reading Comprehension: It's Not Just For Third Graders Anymore.

Give it a try.

[Lilith Velkor]

70. I comprehended what I read just fine.

In two separate posts, the poster said that rape is equivalent to murder. That means that either there are a lot more zombies walking the earth than I thought, or the poster is full of shit. Internalized sexist shit, to be more specific.

[Toasterlad]

76. The First Step To Recovery Is Admitting You Have a Problem.

There are thousands of adults in this country with literacy problems. You are not alone.

Or to put it another way, the poster never once said rape was equivalent to murder. You imagined that.

[dustbunnie]

78. Actually that poster did say it was equivalent to murder. n/t

She said it in response to my post as well.

[Toasterlad]

80. She Was Suggesting That Rape Murders The Spirit.

She also said that sometimes, in addition to being raped, women are murdered as well. Which is true.

Mari knows the difference between rape and murder. Twisting her words to try and force some bizarre conclusion that raped women are better off dead is sick bullshit.

[Lilith Velkor]

82. Wait a minute - you believe rape is murder, but you're upset at the logical conclusion

...that someone who has been raped might infer?

There are thousands of women around you who you would consider "spiritually dead," whatever the fuck that means. Yet they have lives, they heal and move on with them. You know why? The SPIRIT is not located in the VAGINA. In order to believe that it is, you have to swallow some seriously rancid sexist horseshit.

[Xithras]

85. Depends on the crime and the criminal.

Your statement is nearly always true in the case of serial rapists, but is almost never true in aquaintance or date rapes. It's usually true when we're talking about rape by a spouse or an ex, but isn't usually the case when you're talking about a guy who spikes his girlfriends drink and then rapes her sleeping body. You can't shoehorn an entire class of crime into one neat little motivational box, because neither the studies or the evidence support that claim. Even child molesters have a huge motivational split, with situational molestors typically seeking only sexual gratification, while preferential molestors tend to be motivated more by control.

The only thing that all rapists have in common is the ability to dehumanize their victim so that they can view them as a "tool" to achieve their goals (whatever they might be) rather than as a human who will be hurt. There's a sociopathy inherent in all sexual crimes.

[HuckleB]

87. Great post.

[dustbunnie]

5. Not the first study of its kind. And on top of the fact that all kinds of people like it --

from married couples to lonely social misfits, if it keeps the populace satiated, at home and not out committing crimes, that seems like a good thing.

[HuckleB]

9. Studies need to be repeated.

Even in regard to social issues. Actually, especially in regard to social and psychological issues.

[Mari333]

11. again, satiation for the release of sperm via porn has nothing to do with rape

rape is not about satiation of a sex drive. rape is a crime of violence and control. it is not about relieving one's built up sexual needs. it is about violence, and harming another person and destroying another person. rape is fueled by hatred and has nothing to do with sexuality. it is the use of one body as a weapon attacking another body and literally attempting to destroy it.

to even remotely associate the need for porn as the need for violent crime is a mistake in definition .
a man or woman who uses porn is merely satisfying a need for sexual release.

a person who rapes is a violent criminal and rape has nothing to do with sex.

[dustbunnie]

23. Yes, some of it is about violence, but for some the only sexual satiation is through violence.

Read through the bios and psychology of serial killers and rapists and the sexual aspect is highly correlated to the violence. In effect, once they get really horny, the John Wayne Gacys go out looking for a victim.

But anyway, you're only bolstering the argument of the OP and validating the study with your two posts. Don't know if it's intentional or not, but that's the result.

[Mari333]

28. the john wayne gacys of the world meticulously planned their acts

and had patterns of behaviour consistent with their actions. obviously many of these people had been sexually abused or physically abused as children. their modus operandi was to murder people using their own bodies as weapons.

I think it is a poor association to link the need for porn to the link for violent rape, so the OP is annoying to me. violent rape is an entirely different scenario fueled by entirely different needs. porn is silly to me, but the people I know who have associated themselves with it would not go out and murder women and children .

[dustbunnie]

31. I'm sorry but I don't see the point of your annoyance.

It's long been thought, and still is by many on this board, that watching porn leads to rape. That's why so many feminists hate it. This study, and others like it, debunk that theory so I don't know why it upsets you. I agree that most rape is the result of uncontrolled rage but was pointing out the cases in which it isn't.

In the minds of serial killers and some serial rapists, the brain maps sexuality with murder at an early age. Some psychiatrists believe the same about pedophilia. These people meticulously plan their acts in order to avoid detection, and it also adds to the sexual excitement. Serial killers masturbate over and rape dead bodies countless times before disposing of them, long after the thrill of murder is gone. The rage rapist doesn't do that. Serial killers keep mementos to masturbate to for months, sometimes years, after they've murdered. But once the memory fades and the sexual compulsion takes over, they have to go out and kill again. That isn't the same at all as the guy who gets shit on by everyone and explodes by raping and beating a woman.

And btw, when I said it keeps the populace at home and not out committing crime, I wasn't specifically talking about rape. I meant crime in general.

[HuckleB]

37. +1

[dustbunnie]

41. Thank you dear. We're a hive mind on this topic! :-)

[HuckleB]

50. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. :) --nt--

[Exultant Democracy]

48. Sometimes the scientific method requires us to let go of our old beliefs as new information

becomes available.

I'm sure you feel very strongly about this issue, as you should. But this isn't the first study to find this using very large numbers of people, I'm sorry I think that these numbers don't lie. Maybe it isn't as simple as "the satisfaction of the release of sperm" but a more complicated biological, chemical, or psychological reason that porn reduces the incidents of rape, but was can't say that porn and reduction of rape have nothing to do with each other.

Personally I think it might be that porn celebrates sexuality as opposed to the traditional prudish feelings that conflated sex with sin and filth.

[HuckleB]

81. Exactly.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. Everybody knows this except people with a neurotic need to deny it

The global correlation of female equality and lower rape-rates with sexual expressive freedoms is direct.

That doesn't prove direct causation. It merely demonstrates the absence of a problem.

Though it is easy to castigate porn in specific it is, in general, part of the fabric of any free and progressive society insofar as any attempt to limit it leads to a loathsome society.

That doesn't mean that porn CAUSES all those good things. Attempts to limit porn are AT ODDS WITH those good things.

And anti-porn types are taliban-esque crack-pots, though they seldom have a sufficient grasp of the concept of a free dynamic society to understand that they are.

[seabeyond]

10. "Adapted from “Pornography, Public Acceptance " this writer has a clear agenda

and is evident thru out this article. anything but balanced in addressing the issue of porn.

the purpose is acceptance of porn and by gosh, doesnt matter much in balance, all about mainstreaming it and bring to acceptance. and girls, sell yourself... tis healthy, really, the guy said so.

[HuckleB]

13. That's the title of a review of literature.

It's published in a peer review journal, and the title often refers to the results of the review.

In other words, you are making claims without basis.

[seabeyond]

18. the whole article is making claims without basis with the purpose of acceptance of porn

in society.

the state the purpose of the article immediately. and all of the article follows to point the poster in that direction. not addressing a single issue that might contradict the purpose/agenda that have been studied also.

[HuckleB]

25. The article is about a review of literature, meaning research. It's claims have a lot of BASIS.

You are choosing to ignore science, in order to push your own agenda.

[seabeyond]

43. and you are choosing to buy it cause it meets your agenda. it picked and chose data, ignoring

any of the studies that sees the issues with porn. in other words.... it grabs hold of lower rape numbers (ignoring the question on current statistics) and did not address any of the studies that suggested porn was not healthy and good and should be mainstreamed and accepted by all... and hey you girls... being for sale is good for you too.

what about the studies of males watching porn and then when put in environment of ordinary women, they invaded space and were more aggressive than males that didn't watch porn

what about the studies of the males that allow it to interfere and disintegrate their marriage and men saying no no no i dont want any more. losing wife. losing kids. i cant stop. ????

why haven't they done the studies on males watching porn and then listening how they talk about females after, as a whole, not just the porn gals up for the degradation and objectification. if the heavy user of porn tended to dehumanize women as a whole. if the user of porn tended away from real relationships.

there are so many areas they dont address with porn, and only talk about lower rape numbers

lots of people, including the fbi that put out the numbers, disagree or at the least, question those numbers

now tell me how informed you are, looking at this from a "scientific" perspective lecturing me on ignoring science.

you refuse to question the agenda that is EVIDENT thru out this report on both the words they use, the studies they chose and how they interpret.

[HuckleB]

46. Actually, it does none of the things you claim.

But because you have a clear agenda, you apparently must make such claims without any basis whatsoever. You are assigning me an agenda, which also serves your agenda's attempt to dismiss a very thorough review. Further, it's clear that a scientific look at these matters is not something you care about, since you are the one who is dismissing information by making baseless claims about the review, the researchers, the author of this article, and me.

I find that to be ludicrous, at best.

[seabeyond]

47. right.... nt.

[HuckleB]

49. Yup.

:rofl:

[Mari333]

16. the writer needs some re education about what rape is

not very bright.

[seabeyond]

19. much isnt very bright. much is contradictive and the agenda obvious. and people that

want to validate the use of porn will pull this article up, just like the author found particular studies to promote his agenda.

[HuckleB]

26. You have a chosen definition of rape.

Science doesn't work that way. Nor does human behavior.

Bye.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Exultant Democracy]

12. Try telling the fundies

This leads to some interesting questions about parental locks on the internet. I wonder how many teens end up in bad/ freaky situations because they didn't have a convenient and safe outlet for their insane sex drives. So typical, just like abstention education only makes it more likely that your teen ends up pregnant when they do have sex.

[HuckleB]

91. Well, it did seem like there were more pregnant girls at the Catholic High Schools...

... when I was growing up.

I suspect that many of the fundies have their own stashes somewhere.

[blogslut]

20. ...

[blondeatlast]

38. (Clutches pearls, sighs, faints) It's, it's...

beautiful.

[xchrom]

22. Jeff Stryker -- I knew you were good for me! Nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

27. It's good for me! n/t

J

[pleah]

30. Ernest Borgnine masturbates, a lot. Wonder if he views porn?

He is in his nineties and still going strong. Heehee

[TK421]

32. This thread has been Borgnined!

[happy_liberal]

35. Teenage boys watching internet pornography treating their girlfriends like sex objects

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255856/Teenage-boys-watching-hours-internet-pornography-week-treating-girlfriends-like-sex-objects.html

"These young women are articulate, confident, streetwise. They come from a selection of London's top independent and state schools, are dressed in slinky black skirts, dark tights, trendy T-shirts and Ugg boots.

They are charming and respectable, but what they tell me is shocking.

'Boys just want us to do all the stuff they see the porn stars do,' one 16-year-old girl told me. 'It's as if we have to pretend we are in a movie.

'They want us to dress like porn stars in sexy underwear, have bodies that look like porn stars, and sound and behave like them too when we are alone. That's why we like to have our friends around us now.'"...






"meet another young girl who is 16 and wants to be a lawyer. She has been going out with a boy for four months and really likes him; but she says he changes when they are alone together.

'He even starts talking as if he's in a movie,' she says. ' Suddenly, when we are being intimate, he'll say something that he must have heard in a porn film. For example, he'll call me a "bitch" and use dirty language that he'd never use normally.

'It's awful. It's so obvious he's copying his actions from watching porn. No boy would call you beautiful. They use words like "hot" and "sexy". That's why my friends and I like using third wheels. We want protection."

[Toasterlad]

36. How I Wish Boys Would Stop Forcing Girls To Do Things They Don't Want To Do.

If only the girls had some CHOICE in the matter!

[Echo In Light]

53. The notion that women can't enjoy sex w/o hand-holding/"I love you"/missionary is a myth that...

... is perpetuated along with several other whoppers that a seeming majority of Amurikans abide as Gospel Truth.

[TheWraith]

83. That was sarcasm. Right? Please tell me that was sarcasm. nt

[Toasterlad]

96. Have You Not Suffered My Sarcasm Enough To Recognize It By Now?

I'm disappointed in you.

[TheWraith]

98. DU has permanently broken my sarcasm detector.

There are so many people here who really believe crazy shit that a normal person could only be sarcastic about.

[Arkana]

84. Pretty much this.

You wanna blame something, blame Cosmo and Seventeen and Glamour and all those damn magazines that are full of articles on "How To PLEASE YER MAN."

[reflection]

42. Any girl who would stay with a boy

who calls her "bitch" during an intimate moment needs to recalibrate her views on boys.

Self-actualized women and girls should participate in relationships on their own terms, not because of what their cretin boyfriend thinks is appropriate.

Calling a girl "bitch" during an intimate moment? Kick his ass to the curb, young lady.

[dustbunnie]

57. Well, you know, all 16-year-old girls use words like "intimate" and 'third wheels."

In fact, the convos I had with my girlfriends at that age sound EXACTLY like the supposed quotes from that article. :rofl:

And of course before internet porn NO MAN EVER came home on Valentine's day with cheap purple and red garter belts and corsets for their wives to wear. Nope. Never. No man of a fifties household ever expected his wife to be "a lady in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom." And sadly, since there were no savvy instructional porn films available for the most part, the men didn't even know what to do to their wives to make that whole, fake sex kittenery ritual demanded of women more palatable.

[booley]

59. Uhh boys were like this before internet porn

There were boys who treated girls like sex objects or second class in my white bread American high school in the 80s.

It had nothing to do with porn. It was an unfortunate mix of hormones, teen age awkwardness and a society defines men as dominant and women as submissive.

It's not the porn (hell some porn defines itself as breaking the masculine= dominant paradigm)

So congratulations, you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that teen age boys now are still teen age boys.

[chrisa]

62. I disagree that this isn't just human nature.

Do people learn this from porn, or do they watch porn to see things and situations that they already like?

There is no proof that watching porn makes someone less moral. This is from someone who doesn't even watch or like porn.

[Unvanguard]

73. Some teenage boys have always wanted to treat their girlfriends like sex objects.

And we live in a sexist society that often lets them do so.

There's no reason to think that this phenomenon is causally connected to pornography.

[HuckleB]

90. Of course, the reverse is sometimes true, these days.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. Shit, as a teen I used to have to masturbate to the bra ads in the sunday paper, sometimes

Not sure what message Macy's was sending me, except thank God they were at least in color.

[Blue Owl]

40. Waka Chika Waka Chika Waaaaaaaaa...

or however that pre-fab porno music goes...

:silly:

[Arugula Latte]

51. Is my pizza delivery here?

;)

[NYC_SKP]

79. Boom Chicka Wow-Wow... Here ya go!

I love it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgxxAwue7Fs

bonus:

ahnold does porn-ish cheesy flick: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=wsHLbZyA2Uk

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. In order to determine any effects, you'd need a control.

I.e., people who don't enjoy porn. And they don't exist.

Everybody enjoys porn. Especially the prudes who pretend they don't.

[NeedleCast]

54. This

They just watch it for "research purposes."

Hehe.

[cliffordu]

66. That's right - I'm doing some research even as we speak.

Busy busy bee.....

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

56. Riiiight....

Riiiight....

[Toasterlad]

68. Oh, Please. The Internet Is FOR Porn.

[Arkana]

86. Oh, God, I love Avenue Q.

Why you think the Net was born? Porn, porn, porn.

[HughBeaumont]

69. It's good for me.

Of course, I'm married and very rarely have sex . . . so I need something to go on.

[Unvanguard]

71. I don't know if it's good for us (health-wise, anyway), but it probably isn't bad for us. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

72. I loves my porn!

[craigmatic]

74. The reason is because porn makes you lazy. You watch, do you, and there is less incentive to to go

looking for sex. Makes sense

[NYC_SKP]

77. I have not ONCE been interested in doing something sexual because I saw it in a porno flick.

Real sexual life is entertaining enough...

Arnold did a porn flick back in the 70's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=wsHLbZyA2Uk

:P

[Odin2005]

88. This thread won't end well.

:yoiks:

[HuckleB]

89. Relax.

:beer:

[pleah]

92. Relax! Don't do it. When you want to get to it! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SouGhbXz6_s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxqrkNmyXdY

[TexasObserver]

93. Porn is harmful - to people who worry about what other people are looking at.

Porn is harmful to those who get their drawers in a bunch over it, but otherwise, it's humans doing what humans do: having sex, thinking about having sex, and looking at sexually stimulating representations.

Porn isn't harmful, but being judgmental about porn is.

[ibegurpard]

94. I'm conflicted about this

I LOVE porn
And yet I agree that it can cause people to objectify others.
Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal if we didn't have so many societal sexual hangups.

[HuckleB]

95. Conflict can be good, right?

[Taverner]

97. Yes - as long as the actresses are consenting, the masturbators willing, and the fantasy understood

[Political Heretic]

99. That's what I think.

[Warren DeMontague]

107. I'm trying to imagine 'unwilling' masturbation.

"not tonight, me- I've got a headache".

[HuckleB]

111. Oh, the irony.

[Taverner]

112. Irony? I'm not ironying anything...

[HuckleB]

115. If you say so...

:shrug:

[Taverner]

116. Are you accusing me of being an unwilling masturbator?

An unpaid talent?

Misunderstanding of fantasy?

WHAT?

[Warren DeMontague]

118. I strongly suspect you're plying yourself with drinks, beforehand.

get it? beforehand?

...

:hide:

[HuckleB]

119. Hands on the wheel, please.

[TexasObserver]

100. It can be.

[jobwithout]

103. Porn victimizes women

It cant be a secret to anyone that the vast vast majority of women aren't in porn because they want to be. It is bad for their mental state as well as their physical well being. Anyone who call themselves a progressive and supports the porn industry is lying about one or the other.

For all of you guys out there who love to watch women abused the way they are in those movies, I say shame on you. Lets just hope your daughters don't get sucked into that rat hole.

[FreeState]

105. Hetrosexist much? Really - there is porn with no women in it or all women for that matter n/t

[Taverner]

113. "Hetrosexist" - I F'ing LOVE THAT TERM!!!

Mind if I borrow?

[FreeState]

117. Sure:) Cant remember where I heard it first but its not original to me:) n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

106. Consenting adults can fuck each other. Consenting adults can film. Consenting adults can watch film.

Consenting adults can film other consenting adults fucking each other.

Other consenting adults can watch said consenting adult fucking for the purposes of jolly-getting.

Really, the pearl clutching of a small neopuritan minority aside, it's not such a big deal, or that hard to understand.

[Kablooie]

109. Porn: It's not just for breakfast any more.

[eridani]

110. Point of information

Anybody can make porn. It isn't like you need a studio and paid actors. Does anyone have a clue about what percent of porn consumption is of the commercial variety vs. what percent is homemade? I admit that I'd like to see gift exchange among amateurs become the norm, but don't know if we are anywhere near that.

[Taverner]

114. Yep and my favorite kind of portn (TMI territory here) is the homemade stuff

Nothing like watching REAL women, not these cheesecloth filmed, no scratches or defects crap

I want real people - people with some cellulite, a birthmark here and there and slightly uneven proportions.

Yes, I really do want to see the entire world naked