The problem with Kuch, are not his ideas.

[Peacetrain]

I would say 99.9% of us embrace Kuchs ideas.

The problem with Kuch, is getting anything actually done, that promotes and sends his ideas our ours further down the line.

Kuch just cannot take half a loaf and work for the rest. He wants it all now or none at all.

Maybe Kuch is the canary in the mine. He points out what needs to be addressed.

But he is a totally ineffective legislator, in actually getting hard things done and a solid result.

[niceypoo]

1. Principles have no place in the Democratic party!!

How dare someone stick to them!! ...must..march...to the right....resistance is futile..

[Mari333]

2. he exposed 365 warmongering whores yesterday

thats pretty effectual to me.

[berni_mccoy]

8. When does your outlandish bullshit end? 31 members of the progressive caucus voted against Kucinich

on his resolution for immediate withdraw. That does not make them warmongers.

[EFerrari]

11. He made people own their oversight. That was well done. n/t

[Individualist]

31. +1

[laughingliberal]

3. I don't think he does want it all now or nothing at all.

I believe it is well established he is a single payer guy. Yet, I believe he has said he would vote for a bill which has an effective public option in it.

If we had a few more who would stick to principle over party, this might have been a decent bill.

[NightWatcher]

4. maybe he doesnt trust the establishement (not the Admin) to go and fix once the mandates are in

Maybe he doesnt believe that once things like mandates and tort protections are in place that the establishment ($ for campaigns, bribes, commercials, tea rallies, et cetera) will allow for the "fixing" of the law to actually help the people who need it most.

[niceypoo]

12. The Democrats in congress are too timid to fix it

The fact that many provisions dont kick in for 6 or 8 years gives them political cover to do nothing for a long, long time. They should have stuck to their principles and put out a good bill. Instead they caved on every front and put out a largely right wing bill.

If they don't pass this piece of crap they will definitely lose the congress. Wow, arent we lucky?!

[asdjrocky]

5. Every time I come to DU now, no matter which of the two main forums I'm in-

I see at least one of the regular suspects bashing DK right at the top.

Way to go DU! It does my heart good to know that Progressives are still hated here by some.

[Echo In Light]

13. +1 ....whole lotta shouting/bitching over ONE person

[asdjrocky]

18. Almost like there is this sick obsession.

If it wasn't so damn sad it would be funny.

[Echo In Light]

29. It's just a few serial moderates who are drastically outnumbered

[Individualist]

33. DLC does have a sick obsession with Kucinich,

because he, along with Howard Dean, has exposed them for who they are.

[rudy23]

37. He is the fly in their ointment. With him out of the way, no one would stand up to them.

Makes perfect sense to me why they would focus on attacking him like this.

[berni_mccoy]

24. You're talking about the shouting/bitching over Obama, right?

[rudy23]

41. There's no way one House Rep should be under the microscope as much as the President.

Now why are all these people going out of their way to start threads badmouthing one solitary House Rep from Ohio? I'd dare say that this week, he's been a hotter topic than the President himself.

It can't be because of his power--he only has one vote in the House, and no tangible coalitions to speak of. It must be because of the things he says and who he represents.

THAT is the part that all of us--DK supporters or not, should find very troubling.

[berni_mccoy]

45. If they undermine the progress toward HCR, then, hell YES THEY DO. One vote

can be enough to fuck it all up. Ever hear of Joe Lieberman?

[asdjrocky]

54. The boss takes the flack.

The boss takes the blame. The boss is responsible.

You've never been a boss have you? Or in charge of a large project or a large group of people? If you are not willing to take the blame when things go wrong, then you don't have the salt it takes to be the boss.

Dennis is one Congress Member, Obama is the President.

Learn what responsibility means.

[Peacetrain]

15. In 2004 we tried to host a coffee for Kuch, and did not get one person to show up

He got 1% of the caucuses.. Not that anyone does not agree with his ideas, he just does not get it done.

[asdjrocky]

17. I see what you mean.

That's kind of how I feel about our President right now. He just does not get it done, not for the people anyway. Now if we're talking banksters and insurance CEO's, that man can indeed get it done for his buddies.

[berni_mccoy]

23. Every time I come to DU now, no matter which of the two main forums I'm in-

I see at least one of the regular suspects bashing Obama right at the top.

Way to go DU! It does my heart good to know that Progressives are still hated here by some.

[asdjrocky]

25. Obama is a Progressive? I thought he was a New Democrat.

You should really let some people know, starting with him.

[berni_mccoy]

32. Let's consider his first year, shall we, and we'll go to one of the most progressive voices

Rachel Maddow:

“I think nobody’s noticed that he’s kind of quietly put together the most legislatively accomplished first year of any president in a generation.”

Whatch her entire assessment here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGgd-3Z1HOU

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. OTOH, look at who he is being compared to -

not exactly a high bar to hurdle.

[Individualist]

35. Correct. Obama has stated he's a New Democrat.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

28. DK is a bigger enemy to some of these people than Dick Cheney

DU is turning into Bizzaro World.

[rudy23]

57. The Democratic Party is turning into Bizzaro World. Bought and paid for. n/t

[Bryn]

6. Looky here what Bill Maher says

Comedian and political commentator Bill Maher said Wednesday that President Obama's insistence on courting Republican votes on his legislative priorities has weakened his presidency and the outcome of health care reform.

"I think the biggest mistake that he has made in his first year was to put bipartisanship ahead of fixing the country," Maher declared Wednesday on MSNBC's Countdown With Keith Olbermann.

He said Obama should have "com in with all the energy from the election and saying, you know what, we're in a crisis mode, I won this election by a sizable mandate -- here's what we're going to do; if you don't like it, Republicans, you can suck on it."

The host of HBO's Real Time With Bill Maher has for months skewered Democrats on his show as too timid and lacking the courage to fight for their beliefs. Last summer he famously said, "We don't have a left and a right party anymore" because "Democrats have moved the right, and the right has moved into a mental hospital."

"They should have started with single payer," he told guest host Lawrence O'Donnell. "It's the one program that makes sense, but okay, we live in a country that doesn't make sense... If they had started from that, then the fall-back compromise position would have at least been the public option," Maher said, assailing Democrats for their ostensibly poor negotiation skills.

It's embarassing to be a democrat now sometimes! At least Dennis is one with spine. He holds ground for what's right. He just doesn't have enough democrats to back him.

[NJmaverick]

7. Ultimately most voters vote for people to get things done

not to take ideological stands

[LakeSamish706]

9. Yeah it would be nice if President Obama would get something important done,

like end the wars, put the scumbags in jail that caused this mess, and many other things. Talk is cheap.

[NJmaverick]

19. You mean like save the nation from an economic meltdown and another great depression?

[Fading Captain]

21. LOL. Obama to the rescue!

Get a clue.

[NJmaverick]

34. I have a big clue, it tells me that you refuse to give credit where it is due

I suspect because if you did it would hurt your agenda.

[berni_mccoy]

46. +1. Like a handful of others here that have nothing to contribute

but attacks on the DEMOCRATIC President and personal attacks on members of DU.

[LakeSamish706]

49. And with your posts you don't include yourself in personal attack mode? Hmmmm

interesting how you view that.

[berni_mccoy]

51. Link?

[LakeSamish706]

55. I would certainly call this a personal attack, however that might just be me.

berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list

Thu Mar-11-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. When does your outlandish bullshit end? 31 members of the progressive caucus voted against Kucinich Updated at 12:51 AM

on his resolution for immediate withdraw. That does not make them warmongers.
Get a glimpse of life with diabetes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad5OCLgiDYE

[berni_mccoy]

56. No, that's calling outlandish bullshit what it is.

[Raineyb]

58. Hasn't happened yet.

Would it kill you to educate yourself on how the bloody financial system in this country works?

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. Yeah! Do something! I don't care WHAT you do, just do something!

Look busy!

[EFerrari]

10. How is it the job of one Congressman to pass sane legislation?

Aren't there a few other Democrats in the House?

[pnwmom]

14. Too bad Michael Moore isn't in Congress instead.

He's got the ideals, but he's also practical.

[Orsino]

16. The major problem with Kucinich...

...is that bunch of conservatives he works with, who are totally ineffective at producing the change we need.

[Fading Captain]

20. By standing alone and voicing opposition, he is getting something done

Why do you think he is so loved on DU?
If nobody did what he did, we'd be even worse off than we already are.

[G_j]

22. latest talking point "ineffective"

seen that word countless times in the last two days.
It seems to have beaten out "grandstanding" for the moment.

[QC]

26. At least the "chess" talking point seems to be fading away, though the infamous "magic wand"

does seem to have made a comeback these past few days.

Perhaps the central committee will update the talking points soon.

[rudy23]

42. How dare you say it's a talking point! No, 50 different posters woke up today & individually decided

they were going to log on first thing in the morning and start threads lamenting about the ineffective grandstanding of one House Rep.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Yep. Kinda like Abe Lincoln when he was a congressman.

[JVS]

30. "I would say 99.9% of us embrace Kuchs ideas." Bullshit!

A lot of people seem to like fighting against those ideas and/or sacrificing those ideas.

[rudy23]

36. Can we start 50 threads talking about how Kucinich can't get things done?

And people say the defenders are off the handle for thinking the attacks on him are orchestrated. Where are all these threads coming from? Where outside of the blogosphere is Dennis Kucinich big news? If people are sick of the "cult of personality" around Dennis, then hows about cutting out the 50 threads a day attacking him?

I'm not even that crazy about him myself. I just think it's a bad sign when one of the last progressives in Congress is under attack from his own party like this. It makes me think that they're trying to kill Liberalism from within the Democratic Party. Then the left shifts to the right, as the right shifts towards insanity. Enough is enough!

[G_j]

39. +100

[Tailormyst]

38. would you rather have someone who speaks truth or someone who speaks half truth and wins?

Is that what this is? winning the game of politics, but accomplishing little beyond just winning elections? When does truth and justice come in?

[RaleighNCDUer]

53. That IS the DLC way - truth and justice need not apply. nt

[truedelphi]

59. And EXCLAMATION POINT!

DLC is not inclusive of Mr Justice or Missus Truth.

[Ganja Ninja]

40. Kucinich isn't the problem.

He's a traditional labor democrat, something the party needs to get back to. The problem is the conservatives in the Democratic party where they don't belong. They are the ones that are driving people away from the Democratic party and stifling any attempt to take the party's agenda to the left. If Kucinich is ineffective it's because of them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. IMO, pointing out what NEEDS to be addressed IS getting things done.

Better a lone voice in the wilderness than no voice at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. When attempting a velvet robed slam, it is best to avoid the

disrespectful nickname routine.
So many of those bashing Dennis start by saying they agree with him, funny if you ask me. I bash policies I do not agree with, not people I do agree with.
Patrick Kennedy would not agree with you that yesterday's work was ineffective. Why do you disagree with him so strongly?

Congressman Dennis Kucinich is a man who supports the full equality of my family. President Obama opposes basic human rights for some minority populations.
Facts, they are facts.

[QC]

47. The illiteracy of the subject line doesn't help, either.

Is our children learning?

[Peacetrain]

50. Sit on it an spin... I have called him Kuch since day one..