Do you really believe that if HCR passes they'll start working on the "fixes" immediately?

[NightWatcher]

I keep seeing the "pass it now, fix it later" argument used to justify passing the bill now complete with all of its faults and shortcomings.

Do you really believe that once it is law that the administration and Congress will get to work fixing it?

IF they have identified the "fixes" why not fix them now? Oh yea, because they'd never pass the 60 vote-filibuster proof test.

If they would not pass the BS 60 vote test today, how the hell can you expect them to be Fixed and passed tomorrow?

If you buy this HCR Bill and expect it to be fixed, you are fooling yourself.

[Change Happens]

Yes, I do....nt

[NightWatcher]

2. why not fix it first?

[Change Happens]

23. More direct way to ge things done the way they plan to do it...Each chamber

has passed the bill (after the House does), President can sign into law and that's it. Having the Senate pass fixes first...etc. would alter the bill and the House would not be able to pass it.

[tekisui]

1. Yep. As soon as it passes, if it does, there will be high-fives,

a full court pres on the win, and they won't touch it again. Especially after the time they have had.

They will move on to the next battle, which will have nothing to do with health care.

[Oregone]

7. Next battle is probably education

And Im not hopeful

[Donnachaidh]

14. they'll make something else the *priority*

And it will be tucked away, alongside the Nafta promises for an immediate fix.

[Spike from MN]

38. The next big thing on the agenda is getting Obama's Budget Commission

going so they can get started on gutting and dismantling Social Security and Medicare, all in the name of "fiscal responsibility."

After that, I think they will just declare "Mission Accomplished" and go home. They will have bled the bottom 99% of us dry by then so there won't be anything else left for them to do.

[Romulox]

3. Yes. Right after they get back to the NAFTA side agreements, bankster bonus bill, and stopping DEA

raids on medical marijuana patients and caregivers... :rofl:

[NightWatcher]

5. dont forget repealing the Patriot Act too

[Oregone]

4. Sure!

I'm sure the same spineless party that capitulated this bastard into existence will stand strong and fix it in its entirety.



Need a place to send a check to?

[JamesA1102]

6. I believe they are working on fixes to be passed in reconciliation

and that the reconciliation bill will be passed as soon as the House passes the Senate bill.

[tallahasseedem]

41. I believe that as well!

:)

[slipslidingaway]

8. No, there may be some moves to make it look like they are doing

something, but of course they will not have the votes.

:evilgrin:

[Florida Blue]

9. I remember this fix

Listening to my Congressman in Tampa say as soon as he returns to Washington in January he would introduce a bill to allow medicare to negotiate drug prices with drug companies. I guess I don't remember reading about it.

[slipslidingaway]

19. That was part of the Obama/Biden HC plan ...

9 page pdf
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf


page 5

"...Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices. The 2003 Medicare Prescription Drug
Improvement and Modernization Act bans the government from negotiating down the prices of
prescription drugs, even though the Department of Veterans Affairs’ negotiation of prescription drug prices with drug companies has garnered significant savings for taxpayers.32 Barack Obama and Joe Biden will repeal the ban on direct negotiation with drug companies and use the resulting savings, which could be as high as $30 billion,33 to further invest in improving health care coverage and quality...


Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to
enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan..."


Page 4

"Allow consumers to import safe drugs from other countries..."

[Florida Blue]

32. Thank you for laying that out so clearly for us

Democrats were going to rush back to Washington to fix the negotiating and drug re import sections of the bill.

[slipslidingaway]

36. Yes, there was time when this was important to Democrats :( ...

and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Echo In Light]

10. Why would anyone trust these liars?

[Mari333]

11. no, they wont.

[Skink]

12. Obamas challenger from the left should run on it.

Since it will be his second term before most of the things happen. but by all means pass what we got now.

[joeybee12]

13. No, not at all...they want to pass it and then ignore it for eternity...

...whatever your position on this, it has mainly been a headache for the Dems, shouldn't have been, but it is...no way in an election year will they return to this issue.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Absolutely. Right after they repeal the Patriot Act...oh, wait.

[havocmom]

33. There ya go again, making all that logical assessment an' stuff

Spot on Tierra_y_Libertad!

They shovel crap then high tail it away from the steaming mess. When it is pointed out to them at a later date, they will look confused (again) and pretend they know nothing about how it got there.

[The Gunslinger]

54. And holding the last administration accountable for their war crimes.

[pnwmom]

16. They are already working on the fixes. n/t

[JVS]

17. "fix it later" will be replaced with "you said you wanted HCR and got it, quit complaining"

[harun]

39. +1

[lame54]

18. no, they will work on the dismantling

[still_one]

20. Absolutely, just like they said they would reverse the Patriot Act once they had the power to do it

[laughingliberal]

21. Of course. Now, about this bridge...nt

[Bryn]

22. No they won't fix it

No such thing as "fix it later" with those spineless democrats who look after their own best interest and more likely the paid corporate whore. They're more worried about keeping their seats.

[sinkingfeeling]

24. Maybe not in days, weeks, or months, but over time, yes. Look at Medicare's history.

[Winterblues]

25. Elections will come first..

Not too much else will get accomplished this year until after elections. Especially in the Health Care arena. They may delve into Energy a bit but most will be about elections.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. They may make a few easy, token "fixes" around the edges --

but there will be no "fix" of the major problem with the bill:

Selling us out to the insurance industry.

We will still be forced to purchase private insurance and we will still not have any recourse but to suck it up.

[Ganja Ninja]

27. More likely it will be dismantled before it takes effect. n/t

[Individualist]

28. No

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. If any bad legislation of recent years had ever actually been fixed, I'd have more

faith in the Washington crowd.

But I'm still waiting for NAFTA, Welfare Reform, the Telecommunications Act, the Patriot Act, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, No Child Left Behind, and other attacks on the American people to be "fixed."

Once they pass the Insurance Corporate Welfare Act, they'll say, "We already fixed health care. Next topic."

[mvd]

30. I think the progressives will keep the pressure on

I'm cautiously optimistic. I would prefer an approach where we add things piece by piece, from a PR standpoint. Also, we can build a good bill that way. But at this point, we need something done. So I'll have to have some faith that our Party leaders will lead. I see some good steps.

[Dawgs]

31. What's the other option? Nothing for another generation?

:shrug:

[QC]

34. They were going to fix NAFTA, too.

We're still waiting for that one, fifteen years later.

[branders seine]

35. not a chance in hell.

as soon as this is done, the election season starts.

[thotzRthingz]

37. re: Do you really believe... they'll start working on the "fixes" immediately?

Absolutely NOT ... and I never have!

That's why I draw the line (with SINGLE-PAYER being off-the-table) at a PUBLIC OPTION being included. As soon as they're done with this... with more than a year expended on it... they'll NOT want to delve into it (HCR) again, for a long time. Besides, there are other very important pressing matters (jobs, war, environment, and energy, to name a few) waiting in the wings... and those won't get very much WORK done on them, with the 2010 election cycle being upon us.

PASS HCR, INCLUDING A PUBLIC OPTION, NOW!

[tranche]

40. I believe some will start working immediately. I also believe the congressional support will dry up.

There will surely be well intentioned representatives going in for the fix. Whether conservadems will be interested is another matter.

[SandWalker1984]

42. After the Dems give us MANDATED health industry profits, next is the biometric ID card

I read this the other day:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird

ID Card for Workers Is at Center of Immigration Plan

Lawmakers working to craft a new comprehensive immigration bill are proposing a new national biometric ID card that would be required of all U.S. workers. WSJ's Laura Meckler explains the proposal and the objections from privacy advocates.

Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal U.S. workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker.

- snip -

The uphill effort to pass a bill is being led by Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), who plan to meet with President Barack Obama as soon as this week to update him on their work.



"Your papers please!!!"

I cannot wrap my mind around the concept of a DEMOCRAT sponsoring a bill such as this. National ID cards -- some would say, "mark of the beast?"

[krabigirl]

47. Yep. it's sickening and I am completely against mandates and this card.

If Obama Oks this card, omg....I have no words....

[Marr]

43. Of course not. I wonder if the people saying this would buy a car that didn't run...

...if the sleazy salesman promised to "fix it" later.

If they can't/won't do it now, why should anyone believe they'll do it later? It's pretty obvious that the Democrats are about to lose a bit of power, not pick up more. There's no reason to think they'd even have the *ability* to fix it later, much less the will.

Beyond that, this entire approach is flawed. They're institutionalizing the industry that *is* the problem. You can't fix that with little tweaks.

[emilyg]

44. +1

[stranger81]

45. I've got some land to sell anyone gullible enough to believe this crap. [n/t]

[krabigirl]

46. No. I believe the mandates will come immediately, and the fines.

Otherwise, nope.

[truedelphi]

52. Here is one alternative to paying the high priced mandated insurance premiums

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7891168&mesg_id=7897133

[Pithlet]

48. And if you think that killing this will ever get us single payer, you're fooling yourself.

That's what so aggravates me. Yeah, so things are so bad that it wouldn't get fixed, according to you. But yet they'd turn right around and somehow pull single payer out of their hats if we kill it and start over? It makes no sense.

[Faryn Balyncd]

49. K&R

:hi:



:kick:

[truedelphi]

50. Thank you for mentioning this inane notion of "Fixing later" n/t

[David Zephyr]

51. If they won't fight the insurance companies and big pharma now with big majorities, they won't later

K&R.

Your OP is spot on the mark.

[The Gunslinger]

53. It wont happen..

The nsurance industry already has enough lobby power to eliminate single payer and the public option. When they have their mandate, their power and influence will be even greater. They will run the country if they aren't already.

[green917]

55. You're absolutely correct!

They will pass the crappy Senate bill and say, "we'll fix the crappy stuff about it later" and then leave us to be flabbergasted when 1 of the following happens:

1.) The "fix" never gets brought to the floor for a vote because they already got the bill they really wanted (& negotiated with the insurance and pharmaceutical companies).

or

2.) We lose the House in November because the American people don't want this bill without REAL robust cost controls (i.e. - a public option or Medicare buy-in) and the Republicans roll back the few good things that this crappy bill does contain once they control the agenda again (& threaten the nuclear option if we filibuster a single bill).

You put it quite eloquently: If you know what's wrong with the bill and you have a mechanism to fix it (reconciliation), why not fix it now? I'm guessing that my 1st supposition about what will happen has a lot to do with it. They sold us down the river for campaign contributions and the alleged pursuit of "bipartisanship" (which has never gotten us anything but BAD legislation) and all of the rah rah health care reform (which this bill is NOT...it's health INSURANCE reform) cheerleaders here and elsewhere will have to eat crow (although they probably wont) while the CEOs of Wellpoint and UHC and Pfizer, etc. will laugh all the way to the bank and spend all the additional American tax payer millions we've now been mandated to give them to convince our "representatives" to roll back all the reform that this bill does contain (and probably try to privatize Medicare in the bargain).

[DisgustedInMN]

56. The check's in the mail...

... and trust us...

We're gonna "fix this piece of shit, NAFTA, and the 'Patriot' Act" one day real soon.

Just hold your breath till it happens, ok?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:






Does it piss anyone else off as much as me, to have these assholes insult your intelligence like this?

[lwcon]

57. Shhh!

Like the incubator babies story at the outset of Desert Storm, it doesn't have to be true. It just has to be believed long enough that moneyed interests get their way.