As bad as many here feel about Obama...

[WilliamPitt]

...is there any merit whatsoever to the argument that we have to turn out en masse in 2010 to avoid a GOP takeover of congress?

I think there is.

I'm disappointed, plenty so, but come November I'll be running through walls if I have to in order to get to my polling place.

But that's just me. I still vividly remember life under GOP majority rule. In my own personal opinion, I believe it would be astonishingly irresponsible for liberal/progressive voters to stay home next Fall.

[Blue_Roses]

1. whatever...

:eyes:

[leeroysphitz]

16. lol. you didn't even read the post before you hit the reply button with your little snarky eyes.

:P

[Blue_Roses]

37. wasn't trying to be snarky...

I guess I'm just tired...

[HughMoran]

86. Supporting Dems is annoying to you?

??

[roguevalley]

92. no, the pep talks and scandalized YOU BETTER VOTE OR

__________ WILL HAPPEN gets old. People will do whatever they can and it will get done. Probably. Kicking them in the butt when they are tired, disappointed and _______ doesn't help one damned bit. People have a RIGHT to feel the way they do, based on their reading of things and kicking them around and trying the guilt crap won't help they get to a better place any faster.

[HughMoran]

94. Seemed like good advice to me

I guess it depends on one's perspective.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I'm right there with you, my dear Will...

I am disappointed in many of the things he's done, and not done...

But move over, darling...there are some walls for me to run through, too...

K&R

:hug:

[Deep13]

3. I vote in every election...

...and never for Rs.

What I no longer do is write checks or volunteer time unless it is for my employer's reelection efforts (and that's just self-interest.)

[Romulox]

4. What's the "or else" in this argument? nt

[WilliamPitt]

7. 2000-2006

That's a pretty robust "or else," in my opinion.

[Romulox]

9. 2006 -2010 have sucked just as bad. nt

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

12. Really.

Two massive tax breaks for the uber-wealthy.

Two wars.

The Patriot Act.

The Homeland Security Act.

Jesus, I could go on, but let's just leave it at this:

You're wrong.

[Romulox]

17. Did you forget about: MASSIVE bankster bail outs, wars continue apace,

Bush tax cuts not rolled back, Patriot Act renewed? And I could go on, too! :hi:

[Skidmore]

20. Wasn't */Paulsen responsible for that bailout?

Get your facts straight. Bailout was on *'s dime. Stimulus package was on this watch.

[Romulox]

23. We were discussing whether America post-2006 has been better...

The bailouts are part of the post-2006 package, regardless of to whom blame should be assigned. And a huge portion of them flowed through the US Congress.

[Richardo]

24. Plus the war in Iraq is winding down, and Afghanistan is receiving the attention Obama promised.

Whoever paid the slightest attention during the campaign knew what was going to happen in Afghanistan.

[progressoid]

31. Yes but supported by Democratic congressmen.

Remember everyone rushing home to DC to save the day?



In the final hours of negotiations, Democratic lawmakers, including Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois and Senator Kent Conrad of North Dakota, carried pages of the bill by hand, back and forth, from Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office, where the Democrats were encamped, to Mr. Paulson and other Republicans in the offices of Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the House minority leader.

At the same time, a series of phone calls was taking place, including conversations between Ms. Pelosi and President Bush; between Mr. Paulson and the two presidential candidates, Senator John McCain and Senator Barack Obama; and between the candidates and top lawmakers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28bailout.html

[Common Sense Party]

68. Did Senator Obama vote for the bailout?

Why, yes, I think he did.

Bailout was on the Congress' dime, too.

[ProfessorGAC]

121. Then You'd Be Wrong

In your typically hyperbolic fashion, of course.
GAC

[JVS]

60. Call me when those policies are discontinued.

[Zywiec]

124. Obama signs Patriot Act extension without reforms

Privacy advocates had called for greater oversight on aspects of the Patriot Act that give the government broad powers. But the version Obama signed Saturday moved through Congress unchanged.


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0301/Obama-signs-Patriot-Act-extension-without-reforms

[rhett o rick]

142. This is very sad to me. Not what I had hope for. nt

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

34. So what have you done to help get better candidates running in the primaries?

Or is your main mode of operation just bitching about it on web forum discussions?

[Romulox]

36. So we're done with denial, and now we're moving on to "love it or leave it" mode?

zzzzZZZzzZZZZZZZzzzZZZzZzZzZZz

[LynneSin]

41. I'm saying we have options - it's called the primaries

And I plan to make contributions thru Act Blue to progressive democrats running against conservative democrats in our primaries.

Delaware has it tough this year. Carper is a bit moderate but at this point he's an easy victory for his senate seat. We are at risk losing the open seat that was Joe Biden's old seat - so I plan to actively go out there and campaign for Chris Coon, he's got a tough race against republican Mike Castle (our lone US Representative).

[spoony]

48. The same people screaming at us about voting

Are the same ones who scream at us when primarying Dems comes up*. The "nothing to see here" crowd doesn't want anything changed, full stop.




( *Oh, unless it's Kucinich, lol.)

[LynneSin]

67. I know - it's frustrating

Too many of these conservadems run unopposed in the primaries. Of course it didn't help that people like Lieberman just went independant and ran. But I think if we had campaigned just a bit harder in Connecticut we could have beaten him. At least we tried there (and got Lieberman almost out of the party).

[MUAD_DIB]

46. I completely disagree with that.

The economy wasn't going to turn around on a dime, and as Bush was leaving office the shit was hitting the fan even harder than before.

I'm not sure that any POTUS would have been able to turn the economy around, but at least Obama paying attention to it.

Do you seriously believe that had the GOP still been in power that things would have sucked less or would have sucked the same?

[Romulox]

47. Obama wasn't the President in 2006. nt

[MUAD_DIB]

72. You're right. The dems weren't in power either.

*They were elected in 2006 and took in power in 2007, and during that time if you recall they minority GOP filibustered and acting POTUS Bush vetoed.

I would agree that the Dems should have steamrolled the GOP from 2009 on, but just because they haven't, mainly since their party encompasses not just liberals but conservatives as well, does not mean that I want to see then wandering in the wastelands either.



*To be fair your post: 2006 -2010 have sucked just as bad.

I believe that both of my replies to you are valid on that.


So?

[rhett o rick]

69. So you disagree with the OP? You think we should all stay home? Or what do you think?

Seems like you just want to stir up things.

[rhett o rick]

97. Hello. Do you wish to discuss this, or were you here just to disrupt? nt

[Romulox]

125. Oh dear. This isn't a chat room. Communication *isn't* in real time. nt

[rhett o rick]

130. Real time, fake time, I dont care. If you dont agree with the OP

are you saying you think we should just stay home? Or vote third party? Or what?

[Romulox]

132. I DO NOT support: Mandatory private insurance; SURGE! into Afghanistan

; ongoing bankster bailouts; "free trade" with South Korea, or essentially any of the President's top agenda items.

Are you satisfied? And how is commenting on the top at hand (rather on whatever you have set the topic at) considered "hit and run" posting? Basically, since it's question and answer time, who put you in charge of anything? :silly:

[rhett o rick]

136. I asked how you feel about what the OP says? It doesnt help to imply that

I think I am in charge of anything. That's a discussion breaker. Goodbye.

[Romulox]

137. LOL, you got your answer, didn't like it, and are now stomping off.

I'm heart-broken!

[MUAD_DIB]

45. The or else is the possibility of GOP rule and the further dismantling

of America as you know it.

[Romulox]

49. Sounds more like extortion than democracy. When do I get to vote FOR something

instead of against it?

[MUAD_DIB]

53. It's not extortion. It'll be reality.

If you sit out the election then don't complain when it goes from *bad to worse.


*It took a good 8-12 years of Republican malfeasance to get to where the USA is today. So there has only been 14 months of Obama and you are already to give up?


That's not extortion. That's defeatism.

[Greyhound]

150. Extortion is real, and it can only be defeated with unity.

Party leadership's decision to stick with the same strategy that fails every time proves that change for the better (for us) is not their intention.

[sufrommich]

5. Me too. nt

[freddie mertz]

6. Well, I have never skipped an election...

And I will never vote for a Repug president.

Those are the only certainties for me right now...I will vote, and it will not be for the puke.

[laughingliberal]

103. +1000 nt

[Richardo]

8. Absolutely goddamn right

:patriot: + :kick:

[LakeSamish706]

10. Yep, I am not happy about many things either, but I do believe that your

post goes without question for me. No mater how disappointed I am in many elected officials (and that obviously includes President Obama) they are still one hell of allot better than the alternative.

[madamesilverspurs]

13. Right there with ya,

although it's been years since I could run enough to build the necessary wall-busting momentum. That said, there's something to be said for a well-wielded cane that is judiciously and repeatedly applied. . .

-

[Tailormyst]

14. I know the argument that you will give

Same argument I used to give. But frankly, after 2004, 2006, 2008, I just don't buy it anymore. I see two parties, swapping power back and forth, getting people to vote by invoking gays and abortion, while the whole time they are advancing their own fortunes and power. Bush didn't do much to advance the real RW causes and Obama isn't doing much to advance the liberal agenda. HOWEVER, they both have done quite a bit to advance corporate power.

It's been a bitter pill to swallow and I wonder how long it will take for others to get angry at this kabuki dance too.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

27. "Bush didn't do much to advance RW causes" How about appointing 2 young RW justices to lifetime

appointments to the SC? Everyone on DU complains about the Supreme Courts Citizens United Decision--well guess what. That wouldn't have happened with President Gore or PResident Kerry.

[Tailormyst]

35. Yup that sucked. They are pro-corp assholes

Still doesn't change how I am feeling.

[MUAD_DIB]

59. So what do you plan to do?

BTW: 8-12 years of GOP vs 14 months of Obama. The two previous years of Dem majority were blocked by the GOP and vetoed by Bush.

[Tailormyst]

64. I love your name !

And the answer would be: I am still trying to figure that out. I don't know what I plan to do yet. I joined PDA and will probably still work on local campaigns. But Nationally, I just don't know. My trust is pretty shattered.

[MUAD_DIB]

66. Thanks. May I suggest not giving in to despair?

I know that a lot of people were expecting Obama to be the embodiment of the second coming.

I was never under that impression, but I did know that to continue with the GOP game plan would be a disaster for this country. It still could be.

Don't be shattered. I'm 45 and have seen enough to know that the GOP we have now is not what it once was. It was crappy before, but it is now far worse today. The "crazies" that the GOP used to only court at election time now have a seat, or a few, at their table. I don't want the crazies in power.

That would be something really worthy of despair.

[Tailormyst]

73. Just a hint that they were on our side, the people side, the workers side

Would go along way. Instead it is the big companies that get the help to become even bigger, wealthier, more powerful. I fear we have reached the point of no going back. Even the so called HCR does far more for business then it does for actual people. Not sure how to even organize to fight this anymore.

[MUAD_DIB]

76. I believe the better plan would be to keep what you have and work to primary

what you want to remove. The alternative is more GOP, and you know where they stand and what they'll do.

[Tailormyst]

81. Yup I agree

And I did join PDA and will work for their local candidates. The big issue for me now is trust.

Just get us the majority they said: We did it, they did little in return.
Just get us the Super Majority they said: We did it and they still cower before the republicans.
Just get us the WH they said: We did AND we believed. In return for our hard work, the companies got richer and more powerful and the people, the people are now told....
Just get us back the super majority and THEN we can do things.

That is the the problem that I am having. The trust is gone inn all of them, including my former heroes. I am not alone in this. They have to show us they ARE trustworthy. Not just "after the next election". As a member of the GBLT community, I know full well what "Just wait until after {insert election year}- THEN we can do things." really means. Perhaps this time they could try earning our votes through actions FIRST.

(and thank you for have a civilized conversation with me instead of just calling me a traitor or a repuke.)

[MadHound]

15. And it is that sort of short term thinking that is going to keep this country on the road to hell

Yes, short term Democrats are marginally better than the 'Pugs, there's not doubt about that, they are the lesser of two evils.

But it is past time that we stopped thinking, and voting in terms of the short term gain, we need to start thinking and voting in terms of the long term future. We need to stop voting for who is going to do less harm and start voting for whoever is going to do actual good.

That is going to take a while to develop, at least a couple of election cycles. Punish the Dems for one or two election cycles and hopefully they will wake up and actually start what is good for the people instead of what is good for the corporate and the elite. If not, then we simply transfer our allegiance to a party that will put the interests of the people first. Yes, this is going to mean short term losses, a few years of Republican rule. We can survive that, we have before, especially if we know that we come out at the end of it with a revitalized, caring Democratic party rather than the corporately controlled con job that is now called the Democratic party. Short term losses in exchange for long term gain, I'll take that trade any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Otherwise we'll just continue to compromise our future away, one election cycle at a time.

[madamesilverspurs]

21. "Punish the Dems" --

Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah. It was just a couple days ago, and it was said by Mitch McConnell.




-

[SemiCharmedQuark]

25. The Dems WERE punished for several election cycles and that didn't happen.

1994-2006 Republican congress
2000-2009 Republican president

And that second one wound up giving us a conservative judiciary that we are now stuck with.

No thanks. I'm not going to punish myself and my family in the hope that something that has not happened in the past will suddenly happen.

[tranche]

39. Why can't you hold the line and work to advance more progressive candidates.

You're need to "Punish the Dems" is the furthest think from thinking long term and it perpetuates the Republican, Democrat, Corporate whirl around.

[MUAD_DIB]

63. Wisdom, tranche.

[MadHound]

80. Because I've held the line for longer than a lot of folks have been alive, and what good has it done

It has gotten us a Democratic party that is to the right of Nixon's 'Pugs. It has gotten us a corporately controlled party that puts the machines of the Gilded Age to shame. It has gotten us to the brink of catastrophe.

There is an old saying, that continuing to do the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result everytime is a form of insanity. I'm tired of dealing with that kind of insanity. It is time for real change in this country, and that change is going to have to come from outside both major parties.

[MUAD_DIB]

62. Punish the Dems for one or two election cycles...

And punish America for another decade or two as the GOPygs destroys the country more?

I believe the better plan would be to keep what we have, and work towards getting rid of the deadwood of the party as time goes on.

The other way, by giving it back to the GOP, would just leave the door open for more RW appointments to the SCOTUS, more tax breaks for the super wealthy and more depression for everybody else.

If you need to get rid of a pest problem in your house do you burn it down or do you get rid of the pests and keep the house?

[MadHound]

79. You don't think that I haven't tried that for the past forty years?

You don't think that I haven't tried the whole "work within the party for change" schtick, time and again? And what the fuck did it get me? Increasingly conservative, increasingly corporate candidates to the point where we're staring at the situation before us, where the difference between the Dems and 'Pugs is down from a dime to about two cents.

This isn't a case of simply a few bad apples in the party, or a little deadwood that we need to prune, it is damn near the entire party that is corporately corrupt. A little trim job ain't going to help.

Working within the party simply continues to reinforce the bad Democrats while doing nothing to reform the party. I've tried this, lived it, and all that it has gotten me is a Democratic party that is further to the right than Nixon was. What, you now want me to continue down this failed path? Sorry, can't go there, can't keep rewarding such obstinate failure.

[MUAD_DIB]

84. By all means then and sit the next election out. Please reward the GOP.

[Tailormyst]

89. Perhaps a better response would be from the Dem leadership

Maybe a few words from Rahm or Obama about how they know we are disillusioned and are going to work STARTING today to win us back.

Madhound is not the enemy. The enemy is a capitol filled with rich men not doing what we sent them there to do.

[MUAD_DIB]

90. I can only offer my humble advice so often to another DUer. If they don't want it

then they can sit on their hands come election day. Obama is never going to please everybody, and there will always be enough DUers that want to gripe about something.

Let them gripe, but I will be voting in November.

[Marr]

154. You said it. Isn't it odd how we can see the problem so clearly in GOP voters?

Motivated by fear, they can always be counted on to return their betraying leaders to office for just one more try. It seems so obvious when you're not part of the group.

[Birthmark]

18. William

I have a great deal of respect for you and have enjoyed reading your posts over the years. That said, I completely disagree with you about staying home. It's not like the Republicans are going to round us up and stick us in camps if they take back Congress. (At least I don't *think* they will.) What will happen is they'll pass crappy bills --which President Obama can veto if he so chooses. It won't be the end of the world.

It won't be good, but I don't think voting for people who have little interests in my concerns will help. In fact, I believe it just rewards bad (from my POV) behavior and encourages them to continue playing center-right politics. When or if Democratic candidates live up to what the Party is *supposed* to stand for, I'll happily vote and contribute. Until then I wish them luck...but not much.

[dionysus]

28. then enjoy republican rule.. you're helping it come about.

[Birthmark]

33. Nope.

I'm failing to stop it. That is fundamentally different than helping.

Btw, I'm not enjoying "Democratic rule" at this point...not their acting like Democrats.

[Deep13]

57. Don't we already have Republican rule?

The Ds can't do anything without kissing their asses.

And it is pretty clear that we are irrelevant to what laws actually get enacted.

[AlinPA]

147. Right. The republicans control the Senate.

[MUAD_DIB]

65. They could always start another war...with Iran.

Nothing good comes from GOP rule.

[Birthmark]

77. They *could* eat my children, too.

Life. It's full of "coulds"...among other things. :)

[MUAD_DIB]

85. At least I was taking a viewpoint based in reality.

I would hope that they would stay away from your children, but you never know with the GOPigs.

[Birthmark]

96. Fear mongering is NOT reality.

It is fear mongering. It is a fact that at this point in time more Americans have eaten other Americans than have started wars with Iran.

I refute your "reality." :)

[MUAD_DIB]

99. But how many of them were GOPigs: the eaters not the eatees.

I also stand by my earlier assertion.

John will help me out with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg


On edit: The USA/CIA was involved in an coup in Iran in the early 1950s. It was one of those non-declared wars to get the Shah back on the throne and the oil flowing again.

[Birthmark]

100. I also heard there was a guy in Cincinnati...

...that dislike Iran alot. Maybe that's a "war", too?

Don't know how many cannibals were actually Republican, but they seem to have a taste for Democrats:

"Popular legend, albeit untrue (at least according to the official trial record), claims that District Court Judge Melville Gerry sentenced Packer by saying, "Stand up, Alferd Packer, you voracious, man-eating, son-of-a-bitch. There were seven Democrats in Hinsdale County, and you ate five of them."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alferd_Packer

[MUAD_DIB]

106. My point being that if the GOP wants to joke about it then you never know

what their real intention will be.

Things like PNAC, Cheney's energy task force papers, the planned invasion of Iraq, spying on US citizens would have been looked at with some level of skepticism by many if they were told about this in the mid 90s.

Should we really act surprised, knowing what we know now, when the GOP tries to top what they have already done?

If we work out the problems in our party, not by sitting/typing at computers but really backing progressives, then we can make it better. We won't make it better by walking away in 2010.


Let's just not give them the chance to get back into power. That's all.

[Birthmark]

117. Fair enough

But I'm just not going to worry about what the Republicans *might* do. I'm far more concerned with what the Democrats *aren't* doing. They still have plenty of time to earn my vote --even my enthusiasm.

[laughingliberal]

104. I'm not convinced we aren't going to see that, anyway. nt

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Emit]

19. Thank you Mr. Pitt, for your voice of reason

I have posted about redistricting and November 2010 elections and the backlash movements of crazy right wingers, but the threads drop like flies.

I would rather have a thousand school board members than one president and no school board members. I'd rather have people affecting lives at the local level and changing America one neighborhood and one city and one state at a time than trying to make one person and one office the full repository of all of our hopes and aspirations for a better America. ~
Ralph Reed, head of the Christian Coalition, speaking with David Gergen about his new book Active Faith and how the "Religious Right" politic of morality has filled the space once occupied by the '60's Left, JUNE 6, 1996

"He who controls redistricting can control Congress." ~ Karl Rove, March 4, 2010, Wall Street Journal, OpEd

[tabatha]

22. The disappointment is because Obama

does not have enough wiggle room in the Senate. That has to be changed.

[AlinPA]

146. Yes, and we have a real leadership problem in the Senate. If we hold the Senate, we will see a new

majority leader who will definitely be stronger than Harry Reid who will lose his seat in November. Any Democratic Senator except the blue dog type will be better than Reid who has been a total weakling. We all have our favorites (mine is Barbara Boxer), but we will have a better leader.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. I never stay home election day.

With that said, the Democrats haven't always gotten my vote. I haven't voted for Feinstein since her first run. and Pelosi lost me the last go around.

Not voting for me isn't an option. But neither is blind Party loyalty.

[branders seine]

30. I will vote for every actual Democrat on the ballot.

But I'm done voting for fifth columnists.

[LynneSin]

32. My attitude is very simple - what are we doing to run candidates against the 'bad' Dems

If we aren't doing something about it then why should they?

And I plan on donating to Bill Halter's campaign in Arkansas. At least one state is doing their part to make a difference.

[Dr.Phool]

38. I've never missed an election. I might this time.

Dems don't even have a candidate in my district. The last one was an incompetent blue dog. The one before that was a former AIPAC intern who loved him some guest worker programs.

[progressoid]

40. But the general public isn't quite as astute. After a couple seasons of Dancing with the Stars

a lot of America has forgotten about the failure of the bush years.


More importantly is the Democratic Base that is unenergized for another fight after this let down. Try to win an election without grassroots support.

[optimator]

42. I have no "responsiblity" to vote or not vote in any way

My vote shall be earned.
And these little attempts to demand it will not work any more.

[MUAD_DIB]

43. Will, I don't feel bad about Obama, Kucinich. I don't feel bad about the GOP being in the dog house.

I would like Obama to do more as well as Pelosi and Reid. I understand that Obama doesn't have a magic wand, but he needs to be tougher. The time has past for being diplomatic with the GOPiggies. They mean war so they should be given war.

What I do feel bad about is the mud slinging, the labeling of dissenting views as "right wing talking points or trollism" (not just my experience but watching it happen to others) and the general temper tantrums and fits that have become the norm. Maybe they were always the norm.

The internet makes people the tough guys that they aren't in broad daylight. Maybe that makes up for something that is lacking in their lives, or maybe that makes their daily life less worth while since if they can't be civil here then where can they be?

That being said, I will be voting in November for the Dems, but anybody on DU that doesn't vote should turn in their monikers and leave DU.

This is Democraticunderground.com. If DUes don't want to participate in this Democracy, and stay at home on election day, then what is the use of their coming here to complain if the GOP sees a resurgence?

If anybody cares to flame me then your posts will go unanswered.

If anybody has a legitimate query for me then I will kindly reply.

[ShamelessHussy]

44. hard to get psyched about a scam, how many times do we need to repeat something before we get it?

some say that is the definition of crazy.

[Individualist]

50. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The quote, appropriate for this thread, is attributed to Einstein.

[deaniac21]

56. but but when you flip a coin.....

[spoony]

51. Yeah, well put. nt

[Ganja Ninja]

52. I fully intend to show up at the polls.

I'm just not going to vote for conservative Dem's anymore. So if the Democrats want to win they need to weed out the turncoats. It's not my fault if they run a candidate I'm not interested in voting for.

[butterfly77]

54. The problem is that..

I think a lot of people didn't even know what was going on during the Bush years and that is why I always push for people to be reminded. Some people really,really believe it just got this way because of Obama.

I know a lot of people who were losing jobs in 2003 but the comfortable who didn't see anything different and who thought everything we were saying was a conspiracy are scared as hell now so they are blaming the President something that the republiCONS are counting on.

[EFerrari]

55. Wait -- GOP majority rule is over?!

Okay, :spank: me.

The real problem will be voters punishing *House members* when the House has done better than the other body or the admin, at least in mho.

(edit for oops)

[omega minimo]

71. Where is "east in mho"? I'm movin' there

:spray: this is series, EF, stop being fnny :hi:

[EFerrari]

74. My poor horrible dyslexic typing.

LOL

Sorry!

[omega minimo]

75. the momentary bright spot

that there was "east of somewhere," where voters weren't treated like a captive audience that OWED their votes to arrogant politicos, was a pleasure.

:yourock:

[uponit7771]

78. yes, conservative rull is not though

[cliffordu]

58. Yep - gotta vote. That way I get to complain about stuff without being too big a

hypocrite.....

[omega minimo]

61. Ah, the old "We Can Ignore The Will of the People b/c They Have Nowhere Else To Go"

Good luck with that! :toast:



"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day." -- Theodore Roosevelt

[muffin1]

82. God, it is so disheartening.

In the Virginia Governor's race we had a choice between:

Creigh Deeds: Blue-dog, milquetoast, conservadem who said he would probably 'opt-out' if that was allowed in the HCR bill. Against same-sex marriage, and had just come to the conclusion that 'civil-unions' were 'ok' - at least that's what his office told me when I called for some clarification on his stance.

Bob 'Shithead' McDonnell: Went to Regent 'University'. Wrote a now infamous term paper denigrating working women, gay people, and almost everyone except white men.
Recently extended a law signed by former Governor Tim Kaine regarding work-place discrimination. Tim Kaine had added veterans and sexual orientation to the usual things in bills like this (race, religion, etc.). When McDonnell extended it, he took sexual orientation out of the language.
McDonnell is also cutting funds to schools, Medicare, and many other entitlement programs.

Gay bashers take notice! Now is your time to flourish in Virginia!

I considered for the first time in my life either not voting or a write-in, but I couldn't go through with it. I sucked it up and voted for Deeds. McDonnell won by 17 points.

I am just sick to death of voting for either an asshole, or an even bigger asshole.

[omega minimo]

93. Indeed. Well put.

[knixphan]

70. Progressive Primary Challengers!

I'll be running through walls on June 8th - For Marcy!
https://www.winograd4congress.com/

[mike_c]

83. I always vote-- just not always for dems or others who don't represent me....

eom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

88. I'll be with you.....if they earn my vote.

But, I'll not be wasting my vote on candidates who vote with the Republicans...like they did yesterday.

[Toasterlad]

91. No More Votes For DINOs, Including Obama.

If the Democrats want my vote, they need to start acting progressive. It's a simple as that.

Scare tactics won't work anymore. It's way past time to put up or shut up.

[MUAD_DIB]

108. It's not a scare tactic to understand that by sitting out the election that there is a

potential for the GOP to get back in to power.

It may not be a certainty, but there is more of a chance of it happening.

[Toasterlad]

139. Who's Sitting Out the Election?

I'll be voting for progressive candidates. If that's the Democratic candidate, great. If not, great.

If that means a Republican gets back into power, that's the fucking Democrat's fault, not mine. The only way to waste your vote is to vote against your own self-interest.

[dana_b]

144. "that's the fucking Democrat's fault, not mine"

yep! Progressives for me or no one.

[GeorgeGist]

95. A blast from the past ...

Hello: I'm Ronald Reagan speaking for General Electric.
At General Electric, you know,

"PROGRESS IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT PRODUCT".

[depakid]

98. Unfortunately, political dynamics don't work that way

Democrats need to have major volunteer support- boots on the ground to rally GOTV efforts. Many of these volunteers come from constituencoes that have either actively been taken for granted- or even insulted by the administration or by efforts of some in Congress.

People in thoase constituencies may still vote for you- but they won't get all fired up to go out and work for you again.

Call it the politics of disappointment- and that's what the Dems look bound and determined to harvest this season.

[sendero]

101. Why would I care?

They HAD a total majority and what was accomplished? JACK SHIT.

I really don't give a fuck, my main goal is to see INCUMBENT BASTARD SELLOUTS REMOVED FROM OFFICE, I could care less if they are Dems or Repugs because they all SUCK ASS.

[MUAD_DIB]

109. So what do you plan to do?

[sendero]

149. Vote against..

... all incumbents.

[David Zephyr]

102. Obama should give us something to fight for.

He has done everything but.

Sadly, he will be the cause we lose so many in the House. That's what really gets me upset.

[MUAD_DIB]

111. Are you suggesting that Obama is the only one to assign blame to?

Are you suggesting that he has not done anything worthy while in office?


The GOPigs have obstructed the HCR for as long as humanly possible.

They're not not voting out of principle but out of spite.

If there was a resolution for Obama to walk across the the stret then the GOP would stonewall it.


If you want to fight then fight. If you want to sit it out then don't wail and gnash your teeth later about the *GOP resurgence.


*No, this is not fear, but it is reality.

[annabanana]

105. Boy am I ever with you on this one!

We are not even quite 1/2 way back up the cliff face... I'm in no mood to let those bastards head us back over the cliff...

[joe_sixpack]

107. Why does it seem that we always have to focus our attention toward the next campaign?

We're always looking out to the next election for hope. It's barely a year since we won the WH, kept the House and got a 60 majority in the Senate. There's no off season in politics anymore. Once elected, posturing for the next run begins immediately. When do we get to enjoy what we've achieved?

[laughingliberal]

110. At what point are the lawmakers responsible for earning our votes?

I have always voted for Democrats and I am sure I will be showing up in November to vote for the ones I can, for all the good it will do. My Senators are Reid and Ensign. Ensign is not up for reelection this year and, unless forced to resign (please, please), I'm stuck with him until 2012. Reid is likely to go down in flames and, although I know he is criticized, I think he's far better than some of these asshats we've seen operating in the Senate this past year. I will be voting for him. I don't even think there's a Democrat opposing my representative in the House (R). If there is, I will vote for them but he's very popular here.

Now, as to who is responsible if the Dems lose big in November, I think there is some responsibility on the lawmakers' themselves. Is there no point at which they are responsible for the fact that they have a discouraged and disgusted electorate on their hands? Where is it written that they take every bad poll number as an excuse to move to the right? Midterms, especially, hang on getting your voters to the polls. A discouraged electorate is death in the midterms.

And what of the true believers? Does it work to yell and scream at those who are not satisfied with the representation and hurl the accusations at them? One day we are told we irrelevant members of the looney left and not the base and the next day we are going to singlehandedly be responsible for electing Palin. Not only is this obnoxious and rude, it's schizophrenic. IOW, if all I had to go on to help me decide my vote was the feedback I get from some of my fellow Democrats here on DU, I'd sure as hell be staying home.

But I'm bigger than the vile, immature attacks and I will be there to vote. That said, my vote is only my vote. There's a whole big electorate out there. And they're not real happy right now. The Republicans and right leaning Independents are not likely to be voting Democratic in 2010. I don't think we're going to see massive Democratic votes from centrists. And those who are working double time and laughing up their sleeves at the dissing and 'whaling' the 'liberals' are taking need to think about the fact that we really do need the left to show up for the election. A little respect might help. Might not. Might be too late. But the insults and nose thumbing is not going to get them out in November.

[upi402]

112. well I'll vote... but may write in someone - 3rd party?

i wont vote for a corporatist - either party. i'm sick of it i don't care,

i'll be active in the primaries, but if the DLC machine does what it's done to me/us before - forget it.

[flvegan]

113. I could not, in good conscience sit out an election.

The results would haunt me, I fear. "I was part of that" would weigh heavily on me if I stayed home and didn't refute one Republican vote with my (given) Dem vote and the Dem lost.

Like most of us, I'll just suck it up.

And I don't feel bad about Obama. He has unfortunately lived up to my expectations. Sad as that may be.

[NuttyFluffers]

114. a vote that is taken for granted is an undemocratic abdication of personal suffrage

and people died for my suffrage.

so don't take me, and the people who sacrificed for me, for granted.

the same old canard no longer has any power over me; try to sell it to someone else who is ruled more by fear than principles.

[RainDog]

115. NJmaverick has already explained that liberals aren't Obama's base

which would seem to mean that the democrats have no desire or plan to govern as democrats.

so, honestly, why bother?

[KG]

131. +infinity

[Toasterlad]

140. Indeed. We're Constantly Being Told What a Fringe Group We Are.

Why should it make any difference what we do?

[cameozalaznick]

116. Well not only that...

But remember how in the primaries we all had such great advice for Obama about what he should and should not have been doing. Then it turned out he was right and we were wrong and he was playing like, three-dimensional chess, while we were amusing ourselves with checkers?

Just sayin'

[costahawk1987]

118. Handing over power to the republicans

doesn't sound like much of a strategy for improving anything. I'll make it to my polling place, as well.

[western mass]

119. the DLC hope you'll buy this tired argument

and it's also a false choice. The real choice is between:

1) Democratic losses in the short term, and a Democratic Party that in the long run understands there are consequences to ignoring its constituents, and acts like it when the people inevitably put them back into power like they did in '08.

2) A Democratic Party that's indistinguishable from the GOP on all of the *major* issues, FOREVER.

Sorry, I choose (1).

And please don't give us the line that "we can't survive another 2-4 of Republican rule. First, we also can't survive another 2-4 years of corporate Dem rule. Second, the Bush years were that bad because the Dems were silent partners in everything that happened.

[3324SS]

127. I am with you!

Corporate Dems and Pubs are the problem!

If there is not a clear distinction between corporate politicians and the parties it will never matter who is in control because it will really be the corporations that are and thanks to the 5 Parisian Hacks on the SCOUTS they have made corporate control of the Government even easier.

Unless a significant number of Corporate politicians are removed this next election, America will really become nothing more then a Fascist Nation hiding under the mask of freedom.

[Change Happens]

120. I will be first in line voting ALL Ds in.....nt

[frustrated_lefty]

122. You also called for "purges" in '03/04 for those who didn't

fall lock-step behind Kerry.

You're a smart guy, with lot's of insight. But, when you express your opinion, I take it as that: your opinion. Not some sanctified political wisdom which mere mortals should absorb and emulate.

And, as I'm sure you're aware, "the other guy sucks worse" is pretty poor incentive for anyone to give a damn.

[WilliamPitt]

133. Link?

[ShortnFiery]

123. I have the impression that THIS TIME no amount of conscious raising nor intimidation

will get the people to the polls. Especially this push to pass a horrific Senate bill that will only transfer more wealth to the upper 1%, I'm so damn disgusted - for the first time in my adult life, I just may stay home. :(

[Lerkfish]

126. of course I will never vote republican, nor fail to vote, however

its a little disconcerting to see this administration bending over backwards for "bipartisanship" while decidely abandoning the majority of people who elected him: the left, the unions, those against the wars and those against the bank bailouts and those who wanted the Bush administration prosecuted, and those wanted Gitmo closed, and those who wanted the partriot act rescinded, and those who wanted habeas corpus returned and those wanted to outlaw mercenaries like Blackwater or Xe, and those who wanted to end lack of separation of church and state.

When does Obama bend OUR way to compromise?

[closeupready]

128. I haven't even started to make a decision about what I am going to do in November.

We'll have to wait and see.

[closeupready]

129. Not that I support this argument, but there is an argument about boycotting the polls

that in throwing out one- or two-term legislators, the cash value which that experience gives in post-DC life is minimal.

The idea being that incumbents will see that there is no guarantee that their incumbency leads directly to re-election - short of murder or something like that - which, in many people's minds, can lead to profitable post-term spots on industry Boards of Directors.

Thus, there are those who may believe that the only way Democrats are going to learn that they can't take the base for granted is to throw them out/not vote for them and thus strip the office of some of its corrupting allure.

[ourbluenation]

134. agree 110%. A GOP majority was and would be a hot mess for this country. n/t

[blindpig]

135. Yeah boy, that has worked so well...

I prefer to point my lance at objects other than windmills.

[hfojvt]

138. well it seems that people here are too angry to listen to reason

but I'm not gonna vote in November either.





i typically vote in October, so I can work on election day.

[placton]

141. when you walk thru a storm, keep your head up high, Will

because this time, you WILL be walking alone. As a Party activist, candidate, donor, etc for the last 40+ years, I cannot in good conscience tell ANYONE to vote for this gaggle. You see, I told all my friends to vote for Obama, by letter, phone, shoe leather, etc. Now they think I am as ASS.

[dana_b]

145. man - that sucks

I know what you mean though. We don't talk about politics too much anymore. It's embarrassing.
I won't say a damn word to anybody this fall except maybe about local politics and measures.

[proud patriot]

143. Me too Will Me too

:thumbsup:

[Raine]

148. I'm thru voting for the lesser of two evils

unless there is someone who is actually worth voting FOR I will be sitting at least the next two elections totally out.

[Aristus]

151. Anybody who tries to keep me from voting better be at peace with his god.

I vote in every election. I'm voting this fall in the Mid-Years. And I'm voting Dem across the board.

Anyone has a problem with that, call 1-800-President-Bush.

I haven't forgotten either, Will. :thumbsup::fistbump:

[Hekate]

152. Thank you Will. Me too. nt

[Marr]

153. Odd. When policy was being formulated, we were "fringe" and "far left"... a group best ignored.

When election time roles around, we're suddenly important again. How strange.

They should've thought about maintaining my support before they sold us out to their buddies in the banking and insurance industries.

I don't see what's to be gained by supporting people like that. I do see what's to be lost, however. If you can be safely ignored, then you *will be* ignored. I won't vote for any "moderate", Blue Dog, DLCer, or anything that smells remotely like one. What energies I have will be spent locally.