Mark My Words, Monday's California Prius "Incident" Will be Proven a Hoax

[PBS Poll-435]

After a conversation with 3 Toyota-certified technicians today, there is no possible way for the "event" to have occurred as the driver said that it did. Odds are that he was just trying to get out of a speeding ticket.

James Sikes may even be nominated for an award for that acting performance. :-)

[CreekDog]

1. i think it's possible that he's lying but also possible the car can malfunction like that

what does a Toyota certified technician know about the software that runs a Prius?

[leftofcool]

4. Wouldn't a Toyota tech

have to know everything about the Prius including the software? Our Toyota mechanic/tech sure does.

[CreekDog]

11. they are mechanics and while i respect their knowledge it doesn't make them engineers

i knew people who were certified refrigeration techs who used to release freon into the air not knowing any better.

did their certification mean that they know what freon (the material they worked with) was and what it did when released into the atmosphere? no.

[leftofcool]

20. I wouldn't trust my fridge tech with my Toyota but I do

trust my Toyota tech with my Toyota. Have owned Toyotas for 30 years. Never had a problem.

[CreekDog]

28. but we're talking about whether the tech knows whether the car could malfunction like that

not whether or not you should trust them with your car. different question altogether.

[zbdent]

22. true story ... in 1999, I laughed at the people who thought their cars would

cease to work 1/1/2000, because of the "millenium bug".

HOWEVER ...

After returning from a minivacation, I took my wife's car in to the dealership for a regular check-up ... which included having the "diagnostic" computer attached to it ... a computer which might just have had some date-specific software in it ...

After that check-up, the "check engine light" came on ... I took it back to the dealership, and they checked it out, and pronounced the problem fixed. Between the dealership and home (less than 6 miles), the "check engine light" came on YET AGAIN ... I turned it around immediately and went straight back to the dealership ...

Eventually, it was fixed ... but the software might have been screwed up ... but the mechanics had declared that the car was fine ... twice ...

and let me see ... Toyota mechanics saying that a Toyota car cannot have that problem? That just might be like Mark Foley being in charge of keeping child predators away from the boy's shower stalls ...

[Bluerthanblue]

12. more than you or I -

I believe and fwiw, a mechanic I trust with my life said the same to me yesterday.

While it could have been a computer issue, the mans responses were very suspicious. His story just doesn't add up.

And as for 'software' problems, my friend said that Toyota was being singled out- that there is an untold story about some major US brands experiencing similar unexplained episodes. His opinion is that this is being kept quiet because it would be the end of the struggling domestic auto industry. Something to consider.

[saracat]

2. My hubby says the same.

[Taverner]

I had a feeling that was the case

Kind of a BS flag went up in my head

[Whisp]

6. corporate espionage

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was set up so Murkins are frightened into buying more domestic cars.

stranger things have happened in this world.

[kenfrequed]

10. More likely...

Pumped up by our friends that own the fuel pumps and fear anything even remotely resembling fuel economy. Was the Prius set to drop in price soon or something?

[Taverner]

17. No more of a "kick em when they're down" thing

[cbdo2007]

3. Even if they aren't at fault can we still blame Toyota?? It's funner that way....

[Bluebear]

5. I think an independent technician panel should convene

"Toyota-certified" being the buzzword here.

[zbdent]

19. They're using the Diebold defense, aren't they?

"The software is our intellectual property, so we can't have anybody looking at it ..."

[kenfrequed]

7. Mark my words...

Automobiles have been having this kind of malfunction for some time. The reason that the Prius is being brought up so prominantly is because it is the Prius. Were this a typical vehicle that got crappy gas mileage and caused accidents the story would bounce through the media in one day.

[Nihil]

68. *cough*

Damn, did someone mention a feasible alternative to "A foreign car manufacturer
causing a problem"?

My, my, my ...

> Were this a typical vehicle that got crappy gas mileage and caused accidents
> the story would bounce through the media in one day.

Funny that ... care to count how many people have died in car accidents in
the same period that people are desperately blaming Toyota for an insurance
fraud unfortunate event that involved a specific foreign car ?

:shrug:

[DebbieCDC]

8. That's my feeling too

[Schema Thing]

9. And mark my words - this is not the first time, and we'll be seeing a lot of this

[Texasgal]

13. What's the deal with DU'ers

feverishly defending this massive company?

I swear, if wal mart had two roofs that collapsed, DU would be all over it!

[Romulox]

15. This thread is a Toyota owner's support group, essentially. nt

[Fumesucker]

18. It's just that this particular story smells..

The whole incident went on for close to 30 minutes according to one DUer who had a phone interview with the subject and wrote a story in a webzine about it.

Some of the details wouldn't stand out to the normal layman but raise suspicion in those who know cars and there are a few of us here on DU.

As this article points out, even a car with about six times the horsepower of a Prius can be brought to a stop from 100 mph with only the foot brakes with the throttle set wide open.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

[Texasgal]

23. I just find it odd

that people are willing to defend the humango company first knowing that they have had some problems recently without waiting to see what will become of it all.

Just strikes me as weird. :shrug:

[leftofcool]

25. Because not all Toyotas have problems.

[Texasgal]

26. that's kinda like recalls on cribs

or strollers. If I may use this analogy.

There is a wrong part, not every baby that uses them will die because of this part. :shrug:

[Fumesucker]

34. I don't really think of it as defending the company..

Given the exact same circumstances it wouldn't make any difference to me which company it was that made the car I would think the incident fishy, just like the balloon boy incident was fishy, the details don't add up.

I've just seen even in my own family people that really shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car because they are incompetent and a danger to anyone else around them on the road. One member of my family in 35 years of driving has never sold a car, every car she has ever owned she has totaled sooner or later. And now she talks on a cell phone constantly while driving.

[Texasgal]

55. Oh! I agree.. we had to

tell my grandmother before she died that she couldn't drive anymore and she was very argumentative about it, so yeah I agree with you on that.

DU IS defending this company, as I said upthread if this was wal-mart people would be gnashing their teeth snd screaming bloody murder.

[Fumesucker]

14. Not a speeding ticket, he called the CHP on 911..

Although I think the incident is suspicious I'm not completely convinced it was deliberate.

[CreekDog]

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[pampango]

21. Maybe, but it did remind me of the "Balloon Boy" hoax a few months ago. In both

they brought it to others' attention by either a call to a TV station or 911, so that there was immediate "breaking" coverage. Still I think this could go either way.

[Pithlet]

27. The fact they called 911 is suspicious? Because I could easily see myself doing the same thing.

I really don't get why this is so suspicious to people on DU. There's a recall on this car that already exists. Similar incidences have happened, some with deadly results. Yeah, that really points to scam.... :silly:

[PBS Poll-435]

32. There is a recall on this car to reshape the pedal design and semi-permanently attach the floor mat

There is no recall on the accelerator and the driver, Sikes, claims the floor-mat was no where near the accelerator pedal.

[Pithlet]

49. Oh, please. How disingenuous. It is issues with acceleration that have brought about the recall.

And they have been adding new cars and new reasons for the recall to the list since the beginning. One family who died had their floor mates in the trunk of their car when it was fished out of the bottom of the pond. You think they were scamming, too?

Until there is actual evidence of a scam, I think it's beyond ridiculous to think otherwise. Gee, huge recall going on. Multiple incidences of this very thing had been happening, even before they were making the news. What else could explain it? Go with the most likely explanation. It's always the most intelligent thing to do. This is only making the news because it's a big story story now, and has been for some time. Every time someone accelerates out of control, it's bound to make the news. Not because the guy might be pulling a hoax. And then there's this Gawker reporter who thinks he might have some big story because the guy "MIGHT be behind on his car payments? Gawker is tabloid journalism and not entirely trustworthy.

[PBS Poll-435]

63. Prius (for now) is made exclusively in Japan. Denso manufactures the accelerators.

The US-built models affected by the recall have accelerators made by CTS in Indiana.

There is no evidence that the Denso accelerators have any problems at all. Hence, the only recall currently being conducted for the Prius is to modify the shape of the pedal and to semi-permanently attach the floormat to the driver seat assembly at the base/floor of the vehicle.

[PBS Poll-435]

24. California runaway Prius may be hoax, driver bankrupt, behind on car payments

California runaway Prius may be hoax, driver bankrupt, behind on car payments
By Corey Mack on Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:07 PM
TheCollegeDriver.com

Yesterday, I reported that one of latest "runaway Toyota Prius" claims might be a fake. I provided evidence from James Sikes press appearances that not only proved to contradict common sense reactions, but also seemed fairly implausible. Today, thanks to the folks at Jalopnik, I believe we may have finally found a motive behind Mr. Sikes' Prius madness.

To put it short, the guy is broke. And not kind of broke either. According to financial statements dug up by Gawker's John Cook, show that James Sikes is over $700,000 in debt and could be 5 months behind on payments on the Prius the he claims almost killed him.

According to documents in a public filing, Sikes and his wife owned a real estate business that unfortunately did not survive the aftermath of the housing bubble a couple years ago. The June 2008 filing shows that the Sikes' had mortgaged their house three times and that the lease on their Prius had an assessed value of $20,494 at 7,200 miles on the odometer.

As Sikes has stated numerous times, "he's not going to sue and isn't looking for any financial remuneration from Toyota other than a new vehicle". Which one could take as meaning "I just want a new car".

[CreekDog]

30. to be fair, you said "speeding ticket" first

and since you were in part impugning his story or his credibility, since the speeding ticket thing is probably provably wrong (since he called 911)...by that standard, i think it makes your supposition weaker.

:shrug:

[PBS Poll-435]

37. I made an educated guess, and then I found an article on the interwebz

Ok....

[CreekDog]

41. you're using the internet to do research?

:hide:

[Pithlet]

31. Ooh, that's ironclad right there.

Except it's not.

[Hepburn]

29. So why could the CHP officer smell the burning brakes as the driver...

...tried to stop the car? :shrug:

Oh, btw ~~ it was the DRIVER who called the CHP for aid...it was NOT the CHP who spotted him going over the speed limit.

Hint: Next OP...try using facts.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Just what DU needed, a bunch of Toyota apologists!

The CHP officer is strong evidence that this was not a hoax!

[Hepburn]

39. I totally agree...

...there is no way, IMO, that the driver could have manufactured the smell of burning brakes that the CHIP officer mentioned when interviewed.

It is the Toyota that is the problem.

[Fumesucker]

44. I bet you any amount of money you like I can make your brakes smoke inside of five minutes..

Put me in the drivers seat and I'll have your brakes literally smoking well before five minutes are up..

As long as your car is running of course..

[PBS Poll-435]

38. Because the driver was pressing both pedals at once?

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

42. A car goes 94 MPH when one is stepping on the gas and the brakes...

...at the same time???

IMO, hardly.

[Fumesucker]

45. A Prius will go about 105 without the brake on..

You don't have to drag the brakes anywhere near as much at high speeds as you would think to make the brake rotors glow red hot..

[Hepburn]

47. So standing on the brake slows it to only 94 MPH???

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

51. It depends how hard you hit the brakes..

If you got on the brakes hard and stayed on them hard you could completely stop the car, if you only lightly press the brakes you could heat the rotors and pads to red hot in just a very few miles while only slowing the car a bit..

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

We included the powerful Roush Mustang to test—in the extreme—the theory that “brakes are stronger than the engine.” From 70 mph, the Roush’s brakes were still resolutely king even though a pinned throttle added 80 feet to its stopping distance. However, from 100 mph, it wasn’t clear from behind the wheel that the Mustang was going to stop. But after 903 feet—almost three times longer than normal—the 540-hp supercharged Roush finally did succumb, chugging to a stop in a puff of brake smoke.

Note that a Prius has about 90 hp, around 1/6 of what the Roush Mustang has..

[Bluerthanblue]

46. the driver talked to CHP for over 20minutes and refused to

try and put the car into neutral.

Those are facts... and don't make him very credible imo.

[Hepburn]

48. Because he is afraid to try something with a car out of control...

...that makes him not credible???

You're kidding, right?

[Bluerthanblue]

56. no, I'm not kidding- putting a vehicle in neutral isn't going to 'flip'

it- What you are doing is stopping the transmission from giving power to the wheels- it wouldn't 'flip' his car- the guy isn't stupid, but he clearly would like us to think he is.

[harun]

33. Your cabal of tech's don't have all the facts and it will not be proved a hoax.

[Fumesucker]

36. Well, the positions have been taken and time will tell.. n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

40. Mark my words-- dozens of DUers who weren't there will...

know exactly what happened.

[CreekDog]

43. oh come on! how do you know???

because it's happening. :think:

[Dappleganger]

50. I prefer to err on the side of the little guy over the corporation.

Prove me wrong, nothing which has been shown as 'evidence' of wrongdoing so far has convinced me that it's anything other than the real deal. Even if it turns out that he's not telling the truth, I'll still side for the little guy because Toyota has a real problem right now that they are not adequately addressing and it's putting all of us who are on the road with these vehicles in real danger.

[Texasgal]

52. It's just down right weird

I cannot believe my eyes.

I's odd that so many would be defending the big corp. over a regular citizen without the whole story or all of the evidence. :shrug:

[Dappleganger]

53. If we don't get give the little guy the benefit of the doubt first,

even before the whole story is out, how is DU any different than any other right-wing forum?

[Texasgal]

54. Sad, but true.

I am just flabbergasted.

[Bluerthanblue]

57. I don't believe his story- but that doesn't

mean I'm 'defending the big corp' quite the contrary- I do think there are problems with some of Toyota's vehicles- I also think there are problems with some of the American made vehicles which aren't being addressed.

I don't buy this man's story. Driving for over 20 minutes, talking to 911, refusing to try and put the car in neutral (because he was afraid it would 'flip'?????) and claiming in a later interview that he thought that, because he wasn't 'familiar' with the car...what kind of car would 'flip' if put into neutral at any speed???-

If it is proven that this man did do this for attention, he's hurt everyone who has legitimate issues- that is what bothers me.

If it's proven that his car truly did take him on this ride, and he was unable to respond to the advice the 911 operator gave him - then I hope he takes some defensive driving classes, and I owe him an apology.

[Texasgal]

64. "if it is proven"

are the key words here.

I thank you for your opinion.

[grantcart]

58. He may be faking but it isn't for a traffic ticket

He was on 911 for 20 minutes before they sent a highway patrol car to help him.

Others are speculating that he may have staged it as a preliminary to a lawsuit.

http://motorcrave.com/san-diego-prius-victim-is-bankrupt-is-he-faking-it/5532/

I thought your OP was silly however the fact that Prius's are not experiencing this problem and he 'happened' to have it on a remote freeway where such a stunt would be very safe to stage made me think that you might be right even if your basic facts are not correct.

It brings to mind people who plant objects in restaurant food after a news story reports a valid incident and a settlement.

[Missy Vixen]

59. Wow! Was one of them named Bill Frist, by chance?

Perhaps Toyota could hire these three to tour dealerships and wrecking yards around the country, informing the populace that Toyotas Are Safe, despite OVERWHELMING, DOCUMENTED INCIDENTS all over the country!

My favorite part about James Sikes' "acting performance"? The CHP at the scene who said his brake lights were on, the brakes were "hot", but still malfunctioned.

Get over yourself.

[Pithlet]

65. But that didn't seem fishy to you??

I don't know. Just something off about that story!!! :crazy:

I'm with you. I'm not getting it at all.

[PBS Poll-435]

67. Insufficient pressure on the brake pedal will cause both the brake lights to illuminate

And the brake discs/drums to overheat. Especially at high speeds...

[B Calm]

60. Why would he called the police? I think it actually happened the way it was reported!

[Lyric]

61. Yes, and Toyota technicians are TOTALLY unbiased.

What stake could they possibly have in the well-being of the company?

:eyes:

[county worker]

62. He calls 911 says his breaks are bunt out and has a cop slow him down. Good acting I'd say.

[704wipes]

66. I wonder if the guy was trying to get in on the class action

lawsuit, myself.

Would have been too easy to put it in neutral or a low gear to engine brake.