cutting animals vocal chords for human "convenience" ...WTF?

[Slit Skirt]

please sign this petition. It takes very little time. They are trying to stop the devocalization of dogs and cats. I'd like to devocalize them.

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/campaign...

Another example of man and his infinite wisdom......

[hobbit709]

1. infinite wisdom?

Usually humans exhibit infinite stupidity.

I put this right up there with docking tails.

[Slit Skirt]

2. or cutting fins off of sharks

and the infinite wisdom remark was sarcasm of course

I hope you signed the petition...these animals need a "voice" no pun intended

[NYC_SKP]

5. I think it's far worse.

While, to an animal, both tail wags and vocalizations are means of communication, vocalizations carry a full range of meanings and purposes, including many which have to do with defense, panic, danger, pain and others that are vital to the well-being of the animal.

Moreover, many sounds could serve to alert the OWNER to dangers.

So these assholes deserve a home-invasion ass-kicking without warning.

It's fucked up and needs to be stopped.

:mad:

[cliffordu]

45. I vote for SKP's methods!!!

Mebbe the owners should have their own vocal chords 'altered'.

[NYC_SKP]

47. neuter 'em.

like we did on the farm, with twine.

no bleeding, they just dry up and fall off.

[cliffordu]

49. That's what happened to mine.

Thought someone was eating raisin bran in bed.

[Quantess]

76. It's far worse than docking tails, IMO.

[madrchsod]

3. you would have to find an unethical vet to do that.

if such a vet existed he or she would`t be in business very long

[Slit Skirt]

4. they are doing it in Massachusetts

and I am in Colorado and have a friend who has rescued a "barkless" dog...it is happenig.

This is a request from the animal rescue site. I didn't make it up. They are trying to get it banned

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

50. This is done in puppy mills by the millers by shoving a pipe

down the dog's throat.

[superduperfarleft]

26. Untrue, unfortunately.

There are many vets that will do this.

[derby378]

6. How could anyone even THINK about doing this?

Remind me to stay away from anyone who thinks devocalization isn't such a bad idea.

[-..__...]

14. Drug dealers have been known to have this done...

to dogs (pit bulls mostly), to guard the premises where their lab/stash is kept.

Apparently they would rather an intruder (or the cops), not have any warning that the dogs are present and be mauled instead.


In my personal experience... years ago I used to date this girl from Florida and one year I agreed to go back home with her to visit her parents (BIG mistake that was :o ).

Her father was a text book, good'ol boy that could have been a character from "In The Heat of The Night".

He had 3-4 hunting hounds that he kept in the backyard (were never allowed in the house), that were de-barked.

I was tempted to ask him why, but I was already on shaky ground as it was. :smoke:

[defendandprotect]

52. How polite .. . "debarked" . . . !!! Amazing how frightening our fellow citizens

can be when we see something like the mistreatment of animals.

[-..__...]

56. Don't blame the messenger...

"debarked" is the common term for the procedure.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=debarked+dogs&aq=0&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=%22debarked%22+dog

[defendandprotect]

64. Cutting vocal cards is clearer -- "debark" is a euphemism . . .

[Incitatus]

44. I had a neighbor who had a collie that had this done.

She said it was because he used to be a show dog.

[Slit Skirt]

7. cutting animals vocal chords for human "convenience" ...WTF?

please sign this petition. It takes very little time. They are trying to stop the devocalization of dogs and cats. I'd like to devocalize them.

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/campaign.faces?siteId=3&campaign=AnimalDevocalization&ThirdPartyClicks=ERA_031210_AnimalDevocalization_3_Html

Another example of man and his infinite wisdom......

[Mari333]

8. goddamnit. !!!! sign this people

knr

[Double T]

9. It is an outrage what humans do to their best friends.

Humans are the cancer of every other species on this planet; it is a disgrace.

[Tailormyst]

10. Massachusetts House just passed a bill against this

It's called Logan's Law. I don't think the Mass senate has passed it yet.

[The_Commonist]

11. Yeah! That's almost as bad as those fuckers who...

...cut off a dog's balls, or have a cat's ovaries removed so they can't reproduce!

Assholes!

[Walk away]

15. Nice job comparing something done for the health and safety of the

animal and cruel and unnecessary surgery. Someday it might be your turn. Better hope whoever is making your medical decisions for you doesn't think it a joke. Ha Ha!

[The2ndWheel]

22. Oh yeah, we do that for the health and safety of the animal

We sure can tell a good story.

[Walk away]

23. Here is more of the story. Now you can tell me why debarking is a good idea.

The Argument for Spaying and Neutering
An intact female runs the risk pregnancy. Unplanned pregnancies result in unwanted litters of puppies (and kittens), many of which end up as abused, neglected, or abandoned animals.

The crisis of pet overpopulation is a serious one, and it is generally assumed responsible pet owners, animal shelters and rescue organizations will spay or neuter animals in their care to help combat the problem.

Pet owners spay or neuter not only for birth control, but also for reasons of convenience and to reduce or eliminate certain future health concerns.

Spaying of female dogs eliminates the inconvenience and hygiene challenges associated with heat cycles. You don’t have to worry that your spayed dog will try to escape your home in order to mate, and you don’t have to concern yourself with male dogs around your female.

Spaying also removes the potential for false pregnancies and life-threatening uterine infections, and reduces the risk of estrogen-related mammary cancer and tumors of the reproductive tract.

A neutered male dog is less apt to roam or mark his territory anywhere and on everything. He also shows less interest in female dogs in heat. Neutering also removes the risk of testicular tumors, perineal hernias and enlarged prostate glands.

[The2ndWheel]

33. I think it's a terrible idea

I think zoos are a terrible idea. I think breeding other species to our specifications is a terrible idea. I think experimentation on other species for our benefit is a terrible idea.

We just don't spay or neuter pets for them. The animals didn't vote for it. They didn't ask us to do it. We do it for us. Debarking is just the next thing to check off the list. I'm sure we'll come up with even more ways to mold life to fit our world.

[Walk away]

54. Millions of dogs and cats that are euthanized each year..

because they have no homes and they were born because owners are too selfish or ignorant to spay/neuter their pets. They may live in pens unloved with minimal care and die in virtually an assembly line operation.

Your beliefs seen terribly egocentric to someone like me. I have spent decades volunteering in shelters and trying to find homes for a ever increasing influx of homeless animals. The horrifying amount of wonderful animals that are put to death is heartbreaking. The saddest are the feral dogs who live a life of deprivation and disease.

I don't expect to change your mind. I just hope that you don't influence anyone else to follow, what is generally considered, inhumane advise.

[The_Commonist]

55. Health and safety of the animal?

We neuter and spay animals because we don't want too many puppies and kittens cluttering up our society. We declaw our cats so they won't ruin the furniture. And that leaves them helpless. All for our own convenience. While I will admit that cutting the vocal chords is pretty barbaric, it's for no other reason that neutering and declawing.

[Walk away]

65. Not spaying or neutering your dog and cat is cruel and irresponsible...

For many reasons. Health is a major factor for all of the reasons I already mentioned to you ( which you are clearly unable to rebut). What is your suggestion for the millions of starving feral animals that would be the result of not neutering pets? I have seen condo communities poison feral cats en mass because residents left their cats unneutered and the population exploded. It was a nightmare and could have been avoided with a good spay neuter program.

Equating declawing with neutering is unbelievably ignorant and cruel. But you can redeem yourself by posting your address so that we can all drop off the homeless cats and dogs from our local shelters at you house.

[Hissyspit]

72. You're going to spend the rest of your life finding safe homes for all domesticated animals

in the U.S., right?

What utter nonsense.

[wickerwoman]

81. Not just our society...

Uncontrolled cat populations can decimate song bird colonies and severely disrupt ecosystems where they are introduced.

Do you want a pack of feral dobermans hanging out in your kid's playground? How do you think an exponentially multiplying pack of dogs feeds itself in the wild?

And what kind of quality of life do you think those animals have? There was a huge feral cat colony outside my old apartment and I'll tell you... a piss poor one. Many animals were mutilated and starving. I frequently saw dead cats and kittens lying in gutters on my way to work.

It's not just human convenience... it's also a safety concern and an ecological hazard.

Declawing is barbaric, but spaying and neutering are essential elements of responsible pet care.

[Hissyspit]

71. Not the same thing at all.

What is wrong with you that you think that is the same thing at all.

Seriously, you're joking, right?

Seriously. What the fuck?

[Walk away]

12. PetSmart's website used to describe Cairn Terriers as often debarked by owners.

When I read it I couldn't believe it. This was on a page about the different breeds and their characteristics. I called and emailed them for a month until they finally changed it and apologized.

So I signed.

[Slit Skirt]

13. thank you so much!

I have a Cairn terrior...this dog actually talks to me...I can't imagine what it would be like without his doggie voice

...and apparantly it is very painful for them

[Walk away]

18. My Henry (he is my icon) is a Cairn that sings and yodels with joy...

everyday. I know just what you mean.

[Gman2]

16. The dumbass that tried to get me evicted for heart failure coughing

says he TRAINED his dog not to bark. Uh huh. He cut the dogs troat.

[derby378]

17. And here's the weird part...

We have a tortoiseshell cat that can do silent meows all by herself, no devocalization needed. One of the funniest things I've seen in a long time. Her voice, when she chooses to use it, is rather expressive.

[AngryOldDem]

19. Ours does that as well.

Usually, she's pretty quiet -- she squeaks, basically. But when she does go into full "meow" mode, we know she's in need of something -- food, litter change, what-have-you. I've learned to pay attention when she's walking around in full voice. I wonder if this is something specific to torties? (She also snores to beat the band, which is funny in and of itself.)

[derby378]

21. This is getting scary

You cat sounds more and more like our cat. Right down to the snoring. And squeaks. :hi:

[Maru Kitteh]

53. Those "silent meows" are not really silent at all. You just can't hear them! To her

she is giving you a perfectly acceptable full-volume meow. She doesn't know you can't hear her. :-)

[Withywindle]

68. OMG! My tortie does that too.

She squeaks (and there's a distinct difference between her happy squeak and her pissed-off squeak), trills, and chirps, and also does that silent-meow thing. Usually while giving me what a friend called "the Rasputin stare."

She very rarely full-on meows. The first time I heard it, I was so startled and worried that something was *seriously* wrong. (She just *really* didn't like me taking time in the bathtub with the door closed.)

She snores too. Little pigeonlike cooing noises. It's the cutest thing I've ever heard.

[undergroundpanther]

73. My cat bear

sounds more like a bird,he is vocal really vocal,and sweet as can be.Ever see a book called the Silent Mioow?
It's great.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/305230.The_Silent_Miaow_A_Manual_for_Kittens_Strays_and_Homeless_Cats

[Withywindle]

74. Oh, that sounds really interesting. I should check it out.

My girl is a shelter rescue, I don't know much about her history except that she spent some time outdoors and had a litter at some point. I suspect she was neglected, if not outright feral.

My late Marlowe would caw like a crow. Their vocal range is really amazing. The idea of taking their voices away enrages me. Why have companions at all if you don't want to ever hear them speak?

[xultar]

20. I have a Chihuahua that was debarked before I adopted him. He has issues

and i swear it is due to the debarking.

He survived on the streets of ATL till he was picked up and placed in our rescue. Since he can't bark he can't really protect himself. He is 4lbs and has serious separation anxiety and he knows his little whine or whatever is ineffective. He plays so tough he has trusting issues, poor little guy. .

[JCMach1]

29. NORMAL Chihuahuas have issues! Poor guy

:(

I have a rescue part Saluki. Very cute blondish, medium with half-flopped ears and little bit of feathering here and there. She was rescued as a small pup and has major food issues because of this. Would probably even be destroyed in the states over this by a shelter. And yes, she has some barking issues. :(

[Donnachaidh]

32. oh my GOD -- debarked and on the streets?

I have conversations with my chi-poo. She's so damned expressive with her voice. I cannot imagine why anyone would do such a barbaric thing to an animal.

[defendandprotect]

24. Evidently slaughter houses are too noisy? 12 million animals slaughtered every day . . .

so that humans can make themselves ill eating the filth they call "meat"?

[Slit Skirt]

28. I agree with you

there is an arrogance in our existance. that it is ok to defin sharks, debark dogs, kill whales and dolphin, raise animals in filth and slaughter them in fear.

I know I have missed a bunch more than what I just listed. How do we get people to see the error of their ways?

[defendandprotect]

51. I heard about this a long time ago --

basically for "convenience" of owners -- so my response wasn't actually limited specifically to

this current brutality,

But overall I agree with you --

IMO, the problem is patriarchy, it's violence and brutality --

"Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" -- and I think we can see how difficult

it is to withdraw the "LICENSE" to explolit animal-life once it has been given!!

Indeed, the "sin" of the Garden of Eden make it questionable to eat an APPLE --

while, rather, I would suggest the actual event in the Garden of Eden was males

killing animals, for "food."

Whether it began as "food" or not, I think it had to do with killing animals.

[Zoeisright]

25. People are disgusting and stupid.

Same with declawing cats. How'd you like to have all of your fingers chopped off? Same thing.

[kestrel91316]

27. I've been in practice 28 years but have never done it and never worked

at a practice where it was done. There may be a VERY few vets who do it, but they are small minority.

Much ado about nothing. And I have never even HEARD of doing it to a cat - that sounds like made-up BS to me.

When are they gonna ban ear crops? Those are as useless a procedure as I've ever seen. They do NOT help with ear canal health. And they are done ALL THE TIME still (but again, by a minority of vets).

[Slit Skirt]

30. I agree with you

but don't dismiss it. it happens and it needs to be stopped. cropping of ears and whacking tails too

it is all very cruel torture done for "style and convenience"

[kestrel91316]

60. People need to work through their state legislatures to enact bans of this

in individual states, since federal laws do not apply to it. Here in CA, cities and towns and counties are now prohibited from trying to regulate veterinary medicine because it is a STATE issue.

They won't hear any complaint from me, but in the case of cats, I think it's silly to include them, just like it would be silly to include them in an ear-cropping law. People have overactive imaginations if they think cats are being "debarked" left and right.

[NV Whino]

37. Well, kestral, it's done all over the place

Friends of mine adopted a barkless poodle in VA. She wasn't the only one from that kennel either. I believe the kennel was closed down, although I don't know if the vet was ever identified.

[kestrel91316]

61. In all the years I worked on dogs in OR and then in CA I only ever saw ONE dog

that had been debarked. But it doesn't surprise me that a kennel (and breeder) might have been involved in your friend's case. Don't even get me started on breeders, lol.

There would have been no need to "identify" the vet who did it if it was a legal procedure. I certainly hope you don't advocate stalking and harrassing vets who perform LEGAL procedures.........

If people wish to work to pass STATE LAWS banning these procedures, they'll get no objection from me. I do think it is silly to include cats, because I have never even heard of "debarking" cats. I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to do it, and I practice exclusively on cats. It's like including cats in a ban on ear cropping - just gets a big ?????WTF????? from me.......

[NV Whino]

82. Not sure what you are saying here

"There would have been no need to "identify" the vet who did it if it was a legal procedure. I certainly hope you don't advocate stalking and harrassing vets who perform LEGAL procedures........."

[Donnachaidh]

31. link not available? n/t

[Slit Skirt]

34. try this

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/takeaction.faces?siteId=3&link=ctg_ars_takeaction_from_home_leftnav

go down to the 5th item under "Take action Today" center screen

thanks for bringing it to my attention. It was working earlier. Maybe because they had a lot of responses...(I wish)

[Donnachaidh]

41. thanks -- mission accomplished! n/t

[kimi]

69. That link works!

Happy to do it!

[apples and oranges]

35. Is neutering ethical?

[hamsterjill]

38. Yes, it is!

When you live in a metropolitan city that routinely euthanizes approximately 50,000 animals a year because there are no homes for them to go to - YES, it is ethical to do something actionable to keep from increasing the numbers who die at the pound.

Spay/neuter is not something done for cosmetic reasons or for human convenience. It is done to keep the number of unhomed animals down. It is NOT the same as debarking, declawing or ear clipping.

[Donnachaidh]

43. do you own any pets? Not trying to be snarky but --

I've had both cats and dogs over my entire life. Neutering, unless you are a breeder looking to sell offspring is a MUST for all pets. It stops spaying to mark territories, females trying to run away because they are in heat, etc.

To not neuter is unethical.

[The_Commonist]

58. "It stops spaying to mark territories...

...females trying to run away because they are in heat, etc."

In other words, we spay and neuter for OUR convenience.
That way we won't have to get the furniture cleaned, or go looking for the dog.

[Donnachaidh]

62. it also keeps the animals from running into traffic, getting into fights

with other dogs/cats while trying to breed.

Evidently, you don't have pets. It's called CARE. :eyes:

[The_Commonist]

63. "it also keeps the animals from running into traffic...

getting into fights with other dogs/cats while trying to breed."

Because WE don't want to have to clean dog guts out of the radiator grill, and WE don't want to have to watch what male dogs and cats would do in the wild - fight over access to a female in heat...

C'mon, people! Wake up! We spay and neuter for OUR convenience!

Stop acting like it's REALLY any different than this vocal chord thing. And for the record, I am opposed to vocal chord cutting and declawing while I am in favor of spaying and neutering.

I just think it's hypocritical to pretend that any of these things are done for ANY reason other than OUR convenience...

[Walk away]

66. Dogs and Cats that run away during heat can end up hit by cars, lost and in shelters...

and creating many litters that have to be euthanized because they have no homes. But that's a lot for some folk to understand. You should do some research before you spread any more of your mis-information. Attitudes like yours result in the death of millions of animals every year.

[The_Commonist]

67. Oh, puh-leeeze!

Look, I'm totally on your side about the spaying and neutering.

I just think it's hypocritical to act like it's not ALL done so that WE don't have to deal with the consequences. It doesn't "help" the animals, their instincts are just like ours. Survive and procreate. Declawing is as inhumane as vocal chord cutting, and we do it for our convenience.

I'm sorry if my snarkiness went over your head. I just feel that we have to admit to ourselves that we believe that we are the center of the universe, and that we do these things for our own selfish reasons. I'm sure that if you gave the animals a voice in the issue, they would mostly say "HELL NO!" Have YOU been spayed? I have. I was able to make that choice on my own.

"Attitudes like yours result in the death of millions of animals every year."
And quit with the hyperbole. I don't own any animals right now, but I certainly have in the past. In fact, animals are drawn to me and they know that I'm friend.

Hey... did you see that? I used the common human vernacular... "own any animals" because that is our collective attitude about our relationship with them. Maybe we have to begin with that...

[Withywindle]

75. In the case of spaying and neutering,

the specific consequence that we don't want to deal with is the pain of knowing that MILLIONS of dogs and cats (with as much personality, as much right to live as our own beloved pets) are euthanized every year because indiscriminate breeding leads to there being many, many times more puppies and kittens than potential homes for them.

That's the consequence for US: grief and angst. For the doggies and moggies put down for no other crime than being "superfluous," the consequence is much worse.

[Slit Skirt]

36. here is a different link for anyone who is having trouble

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/takeaction.faces?siteId=3&link=ctg_ars_takeaction_from_home_leftnav

go down to the 5th item under "Take action Today" center screen

[Greybnk48]

39. My daughter rescued a dog that had that done to her.

She's a standard Poodle that was rescued from a breeder in Ohio (long sad story, but she's great now). Her bark is returning slowly, but it's very hoarse and unnatural. But at least she can bark.

It would be beneficial to ban this practice for several reasons, not the least of which is that this is as bad and gross as cutting off ears and tails, maybe worse. Also, my thought is if breeders were unable to silence their breeding stock, maybe puppy mills would be harder to conceal.

[Jennicut]

40. I believe it. My own vet told me to take the claws out of my double-pawed cat because it would be

"easier" for me then having to try and trim the tricky, hard to get at claw that was in between the normal paw and the extra claw. Totally cruel and needless for a 6 month old kitty to have to go through that. Taking out two claws on each front paw. No way.

[defendandprotect]

42. dupe

[OnyxCollie]

46. I know people who have done this to their dogs.

I hate the sound they make. (I hate the people who did it even more.)

[Shell Beau]

48. People are disgusting. I swear.

:wtf:

Don't get a dog if you don't like barking.

[kktk5950]

57. That's just so cruel

[Juneboarder]

59. This is so sad!!

Someone in my neighborhood has done this to their dog. It is so sad, as every time I do my afternoon run, my dog and I pass by this house and the dog looks so friendly and like it wants to play, but then it barks and barely nothing comes out. It just saddens me that people do things like this for their own convenience without taking into consideration how it can affect the animal. :(

[undergroundpanther]

70. Labs do this devoicalization

so the people vivisectioning animals don't emotionally register the being they are ripping up alive is being tortured.The lab workers don't have to hear them scream and whimper so they can stay"objective".A crying dog evokes sympathy.Empathy interferes with science when labs begin to stop seeing a creature they are abusing like an object,or product.

As for silencing animals ,Someone should devocalize the fuckers that do and pay for this shit.I wonder how long until an abusive parent of a baby they do not love tries this devocalizing thing,when it takes too long to traumatize a child into a life of seen and not heard.

[Withywindle]

77. I think if the kind of people who want to do this to dogs and cats had their way

Lots and *lots* of voices would be forcibly silenced.

It's the mark of the kind of person who wants the ego-stroke of a cute companion, without ever having to listen to anything they have to say. I agree with you, it's the kind of world that child abusers and partner-batterers want. Family members as silent possessions.

:puke:

[G_j]

78. link is not working

I'd like to sign.

[Slit Skirt]

79. try this one

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/takeaction.faces?siteId=3&link=ctg_ars_takeaction_from_home_leftnav

5th one down under Take Action Today......I don't know what happened to the original link..it was working earlier

[G_j]

80. done, thank you

there are other good petitions there also.