Vanessa Williams On The Blind Side: White Family Saves The Day

[apples and oranges]

‘The Blind Side’ may have earned several Academy Award nominations and a Best Actress win for Sandra Bullock this past weekend, but Vanessa Williams is clearly no fan of the movie. Williams said on ‘The View’ that the film, which depicts a homeless African-American youngster who is adopted by an affluent white family, does little to improve race relations.



Williams argued that film only reinforces the notion that African-Americans need whites in order to succeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zMLD4RFiSg

[hughee99]

1. If you want to improve race relations

is the important thing to show that the races don't need each other to succeed, or that they can work together to succeed? I understand what she's saying, but if the only thing she got out of the movie was that it "reinforces the notion that African-Americans need whites in order to succeed", I think she missed the point.

[NashVegas]

3. Didn't See the Movie, Didn't See the Interview

But from the POV of an entertainer, I think she's understandably frustrated and may be speaking from that, at least in part.

[hughee99]

5. I understand what she's saying,

and what she described is certainly one aspect of the movie, I just don't think it's the only aspect.

[pnwmom]

11. For her, it's the overriding aspect. To say that she misses the point

is to say that we know better than she does.

[Raschel]

21. Well Barbara Walters think she does. She shut Vanessa up quick like.

[pnwmom]

29. Barbara was obnoxious. I very rarely watch the show but it sure seemed like

she was hogging the camera time.

[Dappleganger]

30. She's always like that, which is why I don't even watch her anymore.

But once again, I really think that one needs to see the entire movie before condemning the whole thing.

[pnwmom]

35. I'm not going to support that movie, or Precious, with my ticket money.

I've been influenced by black friends who express the same feelings as Vanessa. I'm not condemning the movie, per se. But the more people who buy tickets for movies like this, the more filmmakers will make these movies instead of ones with more positive black characters.

[WolverineDG]

144. Michael Ohr is not a positive black character??!!??

:wtf: planet do you live on?

dg

[mzteris]

68. exactly.

Believe me, I relate to that movie in more ways than one.

In some ways it is a wonderful inspirational story. Love and support are the only things you need. Color doesn't matter. . .

BUT =

I could hear my old professor (former Black Panther) saying in my head just what Vanessa Williams said. I bet he hated that movie. (hmmmmmmmm, maybe I should see if he's still teaching and send him an email?)

WE (white) people can NOT - can NEVER - "KNOW" what it's like to be black in this country. No matter how hard you try, how much empathy you have, how many 'experiences' of a similar nature you've had . . .

I understand and support what she's saying. Did she overlook or undervalue the other lessons in this story? Maybe. Maybe not. But for her - and many AA's the story does perpetuate the myth that "blacks need whites" in order to really succeed.

[Dan]

221. Read the book

saw the movie... it is a true story. I would want any person of whatever color to provide assistance to someone in that situation as the young man. I think this is sort of like some of the craziness of the adoption issues - only people of the same color should adopt or raise, someone of the same color. Good people need to stand up and do the right thing, even if you happen to be a different color... Laughter, seems like all of us at some point in our lives will be on the wrong side of the color line....

[mzteris]

226. I don't have to

I live it every day.

Of course people of "whatever color" should provide assistance to "whatever color".

But the fact remains that mainstream society has a tendency to continue the "stereotypes". Blacks "need whites" to succeed. The "magic negro" improves peoples lives.

Do you think this would have been a best seller and movie and Academy Award if the adoptee had been white? Or the adoptee and the adopters were both black? Really?

There is a long history in popular culture that reflect these behaviours. Whites don't see it - or think of it as "normal". Blacks (some) see it as insulting. I can understand why.

[Name removed]

287. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulsby]

73. i have no problem saying i know better than she does

is it wrong to assume one's opinion is better than another's?

i wasn't aware that was a very prevalent idea here, as people routinely claim their opinion is better/better founded.

[mzteris]

228. unless you're black -

then no, you don't "know better" than she does.

Of course, you ARE entitled to your "opinion". doesn't make it right, though. Rush and Beck have LOTS of "opinions", too.

[Name removed]

289. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulsby]

313. utter rubbish

whatever my race/ethnicity, they don't validate/invalidate my ideas

[mzteris]

320. of course it does.

It may not invalidate your right to your OPINION, but it certainly can invalidate your "idea".

You said you "knew better than she" - and I say, unless you ARE black or have a close personal familial-type relationship with an AA, then no, you do NOT "know better than she"!

[Raineyb]

153. That's never stopped a rather large number of white people.

It happens all the time when racism is discussed. Watch the responses the next time someone posts about something that's offensive to black people and see how many white people will pop up and declare with authority that there was no racism involved and that whoever said there was doesn't know what they're talking about. (or words to that effect)

Better yet check out the past stuff. The thread about the NY Post dead monkey cartoon comes to mind.

[Critters2]

167. She didn't see the movie, either. nt

[pnwmom]

10. I think perhaps you missed HER point. nt

[hughee99]

104. To say that I missed her point

is to say that you know better than I what she meant.

I understand her point, I just think there was a lot more to the movie than how she was portraying it. Maybe she didn't word it the way she intended, and maybe she said exactly what she wanted to say exactly how she wanted to say it. Maybe that's all she got from the movie. I don't know.

[npk]

150. She has no point

She is too fucking stupid to have a point.

[Raschel]

18. I agree with her. I had the same thoughts when Bullock was up for nomination.

[FourScore]

2. That's exactly how I saw it.

Good for her for saying it!!!

[npk]

151. So this white family should not have helped this child who was living on the street

Because he was black they should have just said No I'm sorry we can't help you because Vanessa Williams wouldn't like that. So white people should just stop helping black people.

[TalkingDog]

4. I'd say this movie also falls into the Magical Negro category

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro

Because, even though I've never seen and will never see the film, I can tell you that the white family learned many good and wonderful lessons and all became better people for having the Magical Negro in the house.

In either case, it doesn't allow us to view the other as a whole and complete human, without regard to skin color. And in that way, yes, it's racist.

A list from the Wiki

Uncle Remus (James Baskett) in Song of the South (1946)<11>
Noah Cullen (Sidney Poitier) in the film The Defiant Ones (1958)<2>
Also Poitier in To Sir, With Love, Lilies of the Field and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, the last "particularly striking in this regard, as it posits miscegenation without evoking sex. " Quote from Ehrenstein.<12>
Richard Pryor in Silver Streak (1976)<11>
Big Jim Slade (Manuel Perry) in The Kentucky Fried Movie (1977)<11>
The magical negro is a recurring archetype in Stephen King's novels as well as some adaptations of his work:
Dick Hallorann in The Shining (1977), and in both the 1980 film adaptation (Scatman Crothers) and the 1997 TV miniseries (Melvin Van Peebles)<2>
Mother Abagail in The Stand (1978), and the 1994 TV adaptation (Ruby Dee)<2>
John Coffey in The Green Mile (1996), and the 1999 film adaptation (Michael Clarke Duncan)<2><6><11>
Moses the Clock Man (Bill Cobbs) in the film The Hudsucker Proxy (1994) <13>
Buford "Bubba" Blue in Forrest Gump (1994)<11>
Lamont (Guy Torry) in the film American History X (1998).<14>
Oracle (Gloria Foster/Mary Alice) as well as Morpheus in The Matrix Trilogy (1999).<11><6>
Rufus (Chris Rock) in Dogma (1999)<11>
"The Blind Seer" (Lee Weaver) in O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)<15>
Cash (Don Cheadle) in the film The Family Man (2000)<3><6>
Bagger Vance (Will Smith) in the film The Legend of Bagger Vance (2000)<2><3><6><16><11>
Djimon Hounsou in In America (2002)<11>
God (Morgan Freeman) in the films Bruce Almighty (2003) and Evan Almighty (2007).<17><11>
Eddie "Scrap Iron" Dupris (Morgan Freeman) in Million Dollar Baby (2004)<18>
Gloria Dump (Cicely Tyson) in the film Because of Winn-Dixie (2005)<19>
Morgan Freeman in Unleashed (2005)<11>
Hitch (Will Smith) in "Hitch" (2005)<11>
Martin Lawrence in Big Momma's House 2 (2006)<11>
Louise (Jennifer Hudson) in the film "Sex and the City" (2008), where Carrie Bradshaw's emotional recuperation depends entirely on the labor of her plucky black personal assistant, who is disengaged from the storyline as soon as Carrie starts to feel better.<20>

[hfojvt]

16. that list looks pretty ridiculous to me

it almost seems to be saying that you cannot have a black person in an important role without them being a 'magic negro'

[mitchum]

24. It has become so ingrained in narratives; even the greatest work in American Lit...

has a Magical Negro- "Come back to the raft, Huck honey!"

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

37. I'll say . . .

. . . judging by this list, I don't understand why Cleavon Little's "Bart" character from "Blazing Saddles" wasn't included.

[paulsby]

74. what about magical jedis?

obi wan?

magical asians?

mr miyagi

magical white wizards?

gandalf

this needs to sTOP!!!

[TalkingDog]

115. jedis do not use magic. they use the force which is a completely

natural force, existing all around us.

[paulsby]

224. but that's because you understand it

any technology that is beyond human understanding is indistinguishable from magick

[TalkingDog]

109. I don't agree with all of them either

but I do understand it as a narrative device that has been over used. I think the dividing line for me is how gratuitous the character is. I never watched Sex in the City, but from the description provided, feel that is probably a fair call....You can't have a character who nurses you through illness for months, suddenly disappear with no resolution.

[mitchum]

22. Another Magical Negro movie was also my take

[Dappleganger]

27. It's a true story.

If it was made up, then I'd agree with you.

[TalkingDog]

112. No. it's not a true story. Its a movie, based on a screenplay

based on what this family told people.

There are several layers of editorial changes the "true story" went through before you even saw it.


Go back and watch Triumph of the Will and then tell me how Hitler was so enthralling that even cats on the street are mesmerized by him.


I feel sorry for you if you labor under the massive delusion that anything you see on TV or in the movies is based on "reality".

[JackDragna]

141. The player in question doesn't dispute the account of what happened.

Of course it's Hollywooded-up, but much of the core of the movie actually occurred. To compare this to "Triumph of the Will" is laughable in the extreme.

[WolverineDG]

145. To these people, Michael Ohr is a brainwashed victim

Poor dear just doesn't understand that he was actually victimized by the Tuoys, not rescued by them.

:crazy:

dg

[TalkingDog]

148. I think they victimized him by whoring their story out to Hollywood

I think they did the right thing, but then couldn't resist profiting from it.

That's a little too cynical for my taste.

[Critters2]

154. Seems like that's his call to make, not yours. Has he complained about it?

Or does he need you to do that for him?

[TalkingDog]

157. Nope, If my mother or any other person I depended on

for safety and security wanted to whore my story out, I probably wouldn't argue either.

I don't want to be anybody's pimp. If he wants to pimp himself out with absolutely no outside influence, then yeah THAT is his decision. I saw him once on TV. Mostly I saw Mom.

[Critters2]

159. He seems to be doing okay. I'm sure he's grateful for your concern. nt

[Shell Beau]

163. What if people take it as a moving story that needed to be told.

Why is it they "whored" it out? Many people found it inspiring and uplifting. What if it has helped people just by being told?

[misanthrope]

181. You forgot about the profits they made after National Signing Day...

...and the NFL draft.

[Ex Lurker]

265. the Tuohy's are were quite wealthy before any of this ever happened.

I seriously doubt they were in it for the money.

[Hannah Bell]

290. right. that's why they flogged their story to the public. cause they're modest, selfless folk.

[Ex Lurker]

295. they didn't write the book, nor the screenplay.

only on DU can so many find fault with people trying to do something good. I really feel sorry for some of you guys. You must have a really miserable life.

[Hannah Bell]

301. um -- they sold the rights to their story. unless you're suggesting they gave it away for free?

[Ex Lurker]

303. Michael Lewis authored the book that the movie was based on

I'm sure he made a nice chunk of change off the deal, but he's a professional writer, it's what he does for a living. Whether the Tuohys got any piece of that, I wouldn't know, but Sean Tuohy is a a self made multimillionaire. The kind of millionaire rich enough to have his own private jet. I'm not claiming that their wealth is indicative of superior virtue on their part. I'm just pointing it out to say that they already had more money than they knew what to do with. A book/movie deal would be pocket change to them. I really doubt it was a consideration.

[Hannah Bell]

304. people who like money, like more money. if he wrote about them identifiably, they got a piece.

which leaves one to wonder why, since they're such lovely selfless people, they wanted their story publicized.

[Ex Lurker]

305. Tuohy and Lewis grew up in the same circles in Uptown New Orleans

they knew each other from way back. The story was well known among sports fans before this book/movie ever came out, And as it would be a much bigger story when Oher made it to NFL, as it was becoming obvious that he would. Perhaps they thought it wise to have it told from "their" perspective, by someone "they" knew. I just see no reason to find fault with the Tuohy family. I can't see that they've done anything wrong here.

[Hannah Bell]

314. i didn't say they'd done something wrong. i said they made some money off it.

[misanthrope]

309. Which again begs the question why it took the emergence of Oher...

...for their generosity to manifest?

[tammywammy]

317. It didn't

They helped a lot of students the school before this, but those students had homes. Oher was bouncing around homes when they took him in.

[TalkingDog]

155. How do you know?

Other than the following facts:

Christian Middle Class White Family

Poverty Stricken Black Teen

"Adoption"

Black Teen is successful at something


Which I consider to be the "Core" (you may have a different opinion) All you (JackDraga) have is what they (everyone involved in promotion) have promoted as the truth. Unless you are one of the principal players you can't possibly know which parts are absolutely TRUE other than the Core statements.

But we are straying from the topic of propaganda and racism.

If the screen writers conflated or "dramatized" even one incident in a way that gives any of the principals "powers", "abilities", "wisdom" or "insight" they don't actually posses, it becomes a trope. A piece of propaganda. A story with an agenda. A story that stops seeing the people involved as fully formed humans with foibles and flaws.

[JackDragna]

300. Mr. Orr has spoken about his history.

Unless you think he's intentionally lying for some purpose, I generally accept the story as accurate. I fully understand it's embellished, but that doesn't detract from the central point: this is a real story.

[tammywammy]

318. Correction: It's Oher n/t

[XemaSab]

72. The flip side, of course, is the black person who is "rescued" by a white person

If anyone wants to start listing THOSE films, we'll be here all day.

And I'll kick it off with To Kill A Mockingbird. :P

[noamnety]

103. Yep - the Great White Missionary

I was going to mention To Kill a Mockingbird as well. Mandatory reading for every student in America, how the great white hero is needed to rescue helpless black folks.

Freedom Writers
Dangerous Minds

(Diff'rent Strokes)

[Toasterlad]

95. Some Of Those Are Pretty Ludicrous

Dogma? Hitch? Silver Streak? Did you SEE those movies? None of those "negroes" were magical (unless you consider being dead "magic"). I understand what you're saying, but everytime a black person is on screen, it doesn't make them a "magic negro".

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

114. In "Dogma", almost every character is "magical"

I guess we are going to have to stop employing black actors, lest everyone be deemed "magical".

[TalkingDog]

119. Except for George Carlin.

And you saw what happened to him.

Jesus H Criste on a crutch, it's an article from Wikipedia. They aren't known for their scholarship.

The point in posting from there was to show that A)it's a wide spread pop culture idea B) there are several pop culture mediums that utilize the concept. One ultra-scholarly paper wouldn't cut it with many of the people here, who either can't read and comprehend or refuse to attempt such daring-do

And yes, I'm including you in that list.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

121. I know all about the "Magical Negro" meme

And I'm laughing at how idiots will throw the name of any film or book out there just to stretch out a list, which they think proves their point.

[TalkingDog]

161. I agree, in my opinion the Wiki author was stretching the list

and undercut his point.

[TalkingDog]

116. Learn to read. Not my list

Got a problem, take it up with the Wiki author.

[Toasterlad]

124. Did the Wiki Author Post It Here?

[TalkingDog]

166. I'm watching Monty Python.

That has just about as much relevance as your statement...

Lets Argue....

[Toasterlad]

298. Oh, I'm Sorry. I Didn't Realize You Were Developmentally Challenged.

Never mind. Have a great day!

:hi:

[Arkana]

140. Chris Rock as Rufus was fucking hilarious

and that has more to do with mocking Catholic dogma than it does with some "magical negro" philosophy.

[demwing]

278. This is the most ridiculous bullshit I've heard in some time

Dick Halloran in the Shining was less magic than the magic white kid. In fact, in the 1980 movie, he didn't save SHIT. Some magic.
Sidney Poitier's character in Lillies of the Field was only black becuae he was played by a black man. The character could have been any race or nationality. And, as the Nuns point out several time, Homer didn't build the Chapel, Gott baute die Chapelle!
Morgan Freeman as God was pretty radical - and the character wasn't magic because he was black, or black because he was magic, he was magic because he was GOD. Color was incosequential, except for the fact that it blew an established stereotype out of the water.

There are other examples from that Wiki list, each as equally inane as those above. I'm just too sleepy to note them all.

Stupid, stupid, stupid....

[ipaint]

6. An ego stroke plus PR for the pampered affluent. nt.

Where would all us poor folk be without them? :sarcasm:

[Tanuki]

7. She also said she didn't even see the movie.

I haven't seen it either, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it one way or another.

[pnwmom]

9. Why should she financially support a movie she opposed by buying a ticket?

I don't blame her for not appreciating the dearth of films about functional black families, at a time when we're celebrating the Bullock vehicle and Precious.

[Dappleganger]

28. She should have seen it before criticizing...

just like it drives me crazy when people criticize books w/out actually reading them, if she wants to hold any kind of credibility as quasi-movie reviewer at least watch the movie. Then let's have a good debate.

[pnwmom]

36. But then she would have been financially supporting the movie, which she clearly

doesn't want to do.

[Dappleganger]

40. I understand that, but it really negates her argument

if she only goes by hearsay and what she saw on a commercial. She's a very intelligent woman and I'd love to see her go through the movie, point-by-point even.

[pnwmom]

43. We all know the broad outlines of the movie, and that is enough for her

to make her point. It's not in a movie category that she wants to encourage. And that's her prerogative.

She IS a very intelligent woman. I would have appreciated it if Barbara hadn't taken over and prevented Vanessa from elaborating on her views. Barbara behaved badly, IMO.

[gmoney]

75. Then it's prejudice on her part.

"Oh, it's just another 'white family saves the day for the black kid' movie... no need to see THAT. Not very open minded, is it? That would be prejudice, and possibly racism towards white people, no?

She's a fucking idiot in my book. She lied to the Miss America people knowing she'd posed for nude pictures with another woman's tongue in her crotch, among other images that -- while I personally have no problem with them -- would disqualify her from being Miss America. She either thought she'd get away with it, or thought she'd get caught and the scandal would make her famous. Or maybe that makes her a genius, that she can game the system like that.

[pnwmom]

83. No, that doesn't prove prejudice. She would like to see more positive

portrayals of black people in film, and less of movies like Blind Side and Precious. White people get to see white characters in a huge range of films. Why is it prejudiced for black people to want to see themselves in a similarly wide range of characters?

I don't care what anyone did when they were 20 years old, short of being a violent criminal.

[gmoney]

91. "Prejudice" in the sense she pre-judged the movie based on her perceptions

Prejudice is not always about race. It's coming to a conclusion about something without having all the facts. She didn't even see the movie. Maybe it wouldn't have changed her perceptions, but I can't take her opinion seriously until she's seen the fucking thing she's ranting about.

Why don't black film makers portray this "wide range of characters"?

I don't care that she posed for the photos. I don't especially care that she scammed Miss America. But it was either stupid or dishonest on her part, take your pick.

[fishwax]

132. lol -- it's quite a stretch to call that a "rant"

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

41. You *do* know there are ways and ways to see a film without paying for it yourself, right? n/t

[pnwmom]

46. Are you suggesting she sneak in a side door? Or get someone else to pay for it?

Why should she have to see a movie that she knows falls into a category that she's tired of?

[gmoney]

71. She's Vanessa Fucking Williams -- she can see it for free

She almost certainly got a FREE screener DVD for the film since I'm guessing she's part of the "Academy" -- she would have had it weeks ago.

Apart from that, I'm sure she can have her minions make a phone call and get a private screening or DVD.

And yes, it IS based on a true fucking story. I guess next time, just leave the kid on the streets, eh Vanessa?

[pnwmom]

85. Is every true and moving story made into a film? Hardly.

Someone decided that this particular story was worth the millions to make it into a film. Vanessa would rather see fewer white-people-savior movies, and I don't blame her.

No one is suggesting that the child should have been left on the streets. The question is whether the movie industry is doing a good job of representing the range of black people that is out there. Do you think there are no true stories of black people adopting black children that could have been made into a movie?

[gmoney]

93. Hollywood is dying for true and moving stories

If you know of one, secure the rights, write a treatment, and Hollywood will likely buy it and make it.

[pnwmom]

215. Hollywood turns down true and moving stories every day. So do book publishers.

It's all based on numbers, and their numbers tell them that films with white heroes sell better.

[Jazzgirl]

102. Yes she's Vanessa "Fucking" Williams

and just like me, she is tired of the bullshit. Besides, she doesn't have to justify jack shit to you.

[Raineyb]

158. Based on a true story doesn't mean its true. Otherwise it would be a documentary wouldn't it?

So there are bound to be liberties with the facts taken that's the nature of the beast. For you to pretend that this movie the complete truth is bullshit. In addition, I got the same impression about the movie from watching the commercials. It's not like you had to see the whole movie to catch the movie's point of view. And it does come across as one of those "white folks rescuing some down and out black soul who wouldn't have amounted to much otherwise aren't we just so great for doing this good deed" movies. And I kept my damn money in my pocket.

[Nailzberg]

92. As a SAG member, she could have found a screening and saw it for free.

[Toasterlad]

97. Wow. Really? Wow.

You do realize that you can't speak with any authority on a piece of art you haven't seen, right?

[Occulus]

117. No, she doesn't.

Obviously.

[Ex Lurker]

267. she could have borrowed the book from the library

if you're going to express an opinion on something, especially on national TV, it's kinda important to at least make an effort to inform oneself.

[Withywindle]

234. But don't you think Precious is different?

It's based on a book by a black author. All major characters and actors are black. The director and screenwriter are black. It may not be a positive portrayal of a functional family, but it's still a story told BY black people ABOUT black people. And really, at the heart of it, it's a black woman's story about abuse. There's no white savior made into the star of the movie. Should Sapphire not have written her book because it wasn't a "positive" portrayal? Should the (black) filmmakers have not filmed it for that reason?

So are black writers/directors/screenwriters/actors only obligated to tell positive stories? I don't feel OK about trying to dictate that. Everyone who's ever taken a creative writing class knows that without conflict of some kind, there is no story.

[paulsby]

76. bwahahahahahahaha!

so typical.

she hasn't even SEEN the movie and she's so certain she's correct about its theme.

what an idiot.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

108. No different than the morons who want to ban "Catcher In The Rye".....

.....or any other number of books without having read them. Shame on you Vanessa.

[Bill McBlueState]

125. she wants to ban the movie?

Didn't catch that part.

[fishwax]

131. Saying your'e not interested in seeing a movie is actually quite different from wanting to ban it

:shrug:

[DirkGently]

8. Yeah

"true story" or not, when I read that the book and the movie pretty well ignored the kid's point of view, it made the whole thing smack a bit much of white culture congratulating itself on the joy and fulfillment to be had by all where wealthy white people "reach down" and help impoverished black people become -- athletes-who-help-their-football-team-win-the-championship. Not on a soapbox about it, but it just didn't seem like a story I wanted to explore.

[Brickbat]

12. As far as "not commenting because I haven't seen the movie," I think the commercials make it pretty

obvious that her concern is valid.

[Mari333]

13. I saw the trailer, Im white, and that was the first thing that I thought , too

look at all the designer children out there on the arms of the affluent. oh looky I am helping a poor disenfranchised dark skinned person. Its so champagne liberal.

I dont think I will see the movie.

(I wish a wealthy white family would adopt me and buy me a lamberghini! Im too old I guess)

[Raschel]

19. Not only that, but why is this such an "amazing" story? It's not that unusual that families take in

other children. We did it ourselves.

[gmoney]

79. That's commendable. Any of them playing in the NFL?

Or achieved any other status that Hollywood might be interested in?

I'm sure they're lovely people who have gone on to careers and start families, which are all fine achievements. And maybe there's a movie in there somewhere, too.

But do you want to be denigrated as just another white family savin' the day? Like you do it to show off or for some other reason than compassion and generosity?

[WolverineDG]

146. Never mind the only reason they focused on football was

that a football scholarship was the ONLY way Ohr would get into college & further his education. He'd been left behind so much, he could barely read & they had to hire a tutor to work with him through high school AND college because of that.

dg

[Bunny]

14. Well then, what's the alternative?

What is Ms. Williams suggesting should be done when it comes to helping others? Who is allowed to help who? (or is it 'whom'? My grammar sucks.) Are you only permitted to help those of your own race? Or if you help someone of another race, are you not permitted to memorialize it in any way? I don't know, you tell me.

[pnwmom]

39. One alternative is to produce more movies with highly functioning black characters,

or at least a broad spectrum of black characters, including movies where race isn't the issue.

The problem is that the depiction of African Americans in film is still too often negative.

And by supporting Blind Side and Precious with our ticket money, we're encouraging filmmakers to continue to make these types of films instead.

[Shell Beau]

56. I agree that other movies should be made, but those

movies you mention have helped people and deserved to be made. They were very touching stories.

[XemaSab]

70. It's either negative or patronizing

Apparently, people of color are just HELPLESS without they white folks. :P

[paulsby]

77. only in her twisted mind

are people really making this claim, that the only portrayals are negative or patronizing?

really?

for pete's sake, we had a black guy playing GOD in a movie, and nobody batted an eye.

heck, i have some mormon friends who love that movie.

that would be inconceivable just a few decades ago

[Shell Beau]

89. In all fairness, Morgan Freeman is God.

:P

[paulsby]

94. well true

he certainly wasn;t cast against type

it is a pretty amazing thing, though. thirty years ago, no mainstream movie could have a black guy playing god

george burns could though

[Bunny]

99. I see what you're saying.

It reinforces and glorifies the stereotype that black folks can't get ahead unless and until some Benevolent White Lady Bountiful steps in to graciously offer her help.

It would indeed be nice if Hollywood presented more films with non-dysfunctional black people/families, and in that regard Ms. Williams has a point.

[npk]

160. Only you would call the character in the blind side negative

Wow!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

122. It's the context that's the problem.

As in the poor black kid was doomed without the help of the nice white family, not the fact that they were helping him out.

You never see the reverse, where a privileged minority family helps a poor white Appalachian, for example. It's always the underachieving/helpless minority who's assisted by the more capable white person/family. Think of Michelle Pfeiffer in "Dangerous Minds."

[Bunny]

133. Got it.

Thanks, SA. :thumbsup:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

135. No problem.

:hi:

[WolverineDG]

147. yeah, damn that white guy who taught all those Mexican kids calculus

oh wait.....that was Jaime Escalante.....portrayed by Edward James Olmos in "Stand & Deliver."

So much for "never seeing the reverse"

dg

[Starbucks Anarchist]

168. How is a Latino teaching Latino students the reverse?

Do you understand what "reverse" means?

[WolverineDG]

192. Everyone seems to be whining about whites "saving" blacks & never seeing otherwise

Here's an example.

And now, feel free to continue with this weekend's poutrage.....

dg

[Starbucks Anarchist]

196. No, I claimed (and you quoted me) as saying the REVERSE never happens.

Stand and Deliver is about a Latino teaching other Latinos, not a Latino teaching whites.

Grab a dictionary and look up "reverse." Then you can stop posting and looking like a fool.

[WolverineDG]

200. whatever nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

203. Case in point.

:rofl:

[WolverineDG]

240. Feel free to ignore me

so you can continue making an ass of yourself over this weekend's poutrage on DU.

:eyes:

dg

[Number23]

211. Well said!

[XemaSab]

169. That was a Mexican guy

teaching Mexican kids math. :P

[WolverineDG]

193. Yeah, I know

but it fits the whine that you only see white people running in to save minorities.

dg

[npk]

174. So it's not the fact that this white family helped him, it's just the fact that no black family

helped him. That is what really bugs you. I mean if it was a wealthy black family that had brought this child in off the streets that family would be getting all praise. So basically what people like you are saying is that white people should stick to helping other white people out and leave black people alone. What a narrow mind you have.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

176. No, that's not what I'm saying at all, genius.

It's the fact that this is another movie where well-intentioned white people help out an inner-city youth who's otherwise bound for failure. It's a patronizing and dismissive attitude and is always presented in one direction.

[npk]

182. How the fuck is it patronizing

Have you even seen this movie. My guess is that you haven't. So you basically support the alternative, which means I was correct. Because what you are saying is that is patronizing and dismissive for a white family to help a black person. But in actuality, and if you had seen this movie you would know that that is not what happened.

I still can't understand how people can criticize a family for wanting to help another person, regardless of race. The blindside gets lumped in with all other Hollywood movies because Hollywood loves showing how helpless black people are and how if it wasn't for the white man they would be nowhere. How narrow mined of you? Again!

It's funny to me how nobody criticizes Tyler Perry's movies, which are far more patronizing of black men than any other film I have seen recently. All of his movies present the theme that black men are abusive and leave their families forcing young black women to pick up the pieces. Why can't Tyler Perry present a more positive, functional, African American man in his films. I mean if you believed Tyler Perry you would come to the conclusion that all black women are forced to overcome hardships caused by black men. Yet Tyler Perry is beloved in the African American community.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

183. Wrong again.

I never said different races shouldn't help each other out. My complaint is that it's always presented as the privileged white family helping the otherwise doomed/poor/abandoned minority, as if there are no rich minorities or poor white people.

And it perpetuates the stereotype of the minority's helplessness that can only be rescued by their white saviors, and these movies frequently show the minority character through the point of view of the white people, as if the minority character wouldn't exist as his own character able to overcome his own obstacles. He always has to be viewed through the prism of the majority group.

It's funny to me how nobody criticizes Tyler Perry's movies, which are far more patronizing of black men than any other film I have seen recently. All of his movies present the theme that black men are abusive and leave their families forcing young black women to pick up the pieces. Why can't Tyler Perry present a more positive, functional, African American man in his films. I mean if you believed Tyler Perry you would come to the conclusion that all black women are forced to overcome hardships caused by black men. Yet Tyler Perry is beloved in the African American community.

Actually, I hate Tyler Perry with a passion, and one reason is for his damaging portrayals of African-Americans. And no, not all black people love Tyler Perry.

[npk]

184. Well it is nice to know your feelings on Perry

The blindside is actually a movie that reveals how deep societies stereotypes are against young black people, and how they are more often viewed as criminals and drug users who have no future. The character played by Sandra Bullock herself has held m any of these beliefs until one day she sees a cold young black male walking at night and suddenly is forced to confront many of her own prejudices. If you watch the movie you see that this movie is more than just a typical wealthy white family who takes in a young black man from the streets simply to earn status points in the black community. There is genuine love in this family. If you cannot see or recognize this, then that is your problem.

I did not see this character, Michael Ore, as being a helpless character. In fact the movie shows that he is actually, own his own, overcoming many obstacles by himself. He is living with his friends father and managing to overcome setbacks that are thrown his way. What Sandra Bullocks character brings to the story is a family, something that Michael has never really had. I actually think Hollywood should make more of these films. Did it ever dawn on you that this movie might actually encourage more young black people to seek help, wherever it may come from and to know that they can survive a life that is wrecked and often filled with violence.

I don't see this movie or Sandra Bullocks character as patronizing black people. I would not mind if Hollywood made more movies from a young African American male or females perspective. There have been quite a few great films made by Hollywood that does show a strong African American pulling himself up and succeeding. The Pursuit of Happiness is one of those films, which is also based on a true story. I know that is just one example, but I don't have time or energy to list all of them. If you look hard enough you will find more examples. My point is that The Blindside should not be criticized on the basis that Hollywood could do more. This is a true story, which based on interviews with the real life Michael Ore stay pretty close to reality. I just don't understand how it can wrong to tell that story.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

186. Oh boy.

The blindside is actually a movie that reveals how deep societies stereotypes are against young black people, and how they are more often viewed as criminals and drug users who have no future. The character played by Sandra Bullock herself has held m any of these beliefs until one day she sees a cold young black male walking at night and suddenly is forced to confront many of her own prejudices. If you watch the movie you see that this movie is more than just a typical wealthy white family who takes in a young black man from the streets simply to earn status points in the black community. There is genuine love in this family. If you cannot see or recognize this, then that is your problem.

So in other words, the black kid graduates from perceived thug to perceived vessel of tolerance. In other words, it's the Bulllock character's story with the black kid being a prop to validate her. It's not the family's love that's the problem. It's the way the black kid is treated -- as a blank slate for the white family to project their fears and hopes on.

Did it ever dawn on you that this movie might actually encourage more young black people to seek help, wherever it may come from and to know that they can survive a life that is wrecked and often filled with violence.

Oh, I'm sure it took this movie for them to seek help. It's not like they never thought of it before, what with living hard lives and all. But now there's a movie about a hopeful situation. Surely that was all that was missing in their motivation.

:sarcasm:

There have been quite a few great films made by Hollywood that does show a strong African American pulling himself up and succeeding. The Pursuit of Happiness is one of those films, which is also based on a true story.

Because people love to see the "good ones" rise up and succeed without taking into account all the ways in which society and history has mostly prevented them from doing so. It's a sanitized Hallmark treatment of a dark and brutal history, all meant for suburbanites to feel better about themselves instead of focusing on the real issues.

[npk]

205. What?

I didn't say this movie was solely responsible for getting kids off the street, I said it encourages that. And yes there are many people, who are not nearly as cynical as you, that do get strength from all different areas, including films. Films have been a major source of inspiration for a great many people. But you wouldn't understand that so I wont bother to continue.

Take comfort in the fact that so many people like you find helping others to be completely motivated by race. And don't worry it's all a major hollywood conspiracy to keep black people down. As to your ridiculous statement about how hollywood doesn't make movies about how African American have been historically kept down, yeah I can't think of one movie where hollywood hasn't shown the other side of the story. That is absurd. Yeah hollywood never makes that kind of movie.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

238. Right, aside from writing screenplays, receiving a BA in film and watching countless movies...

I know nothing about film and have never been personally affected by them. :rofl:

Take comfort in the fact that so many people like you find helping others to be completely motivated by race.

No, I just realize that legitimate opportunities for minorities in Hollywood are few and far between.

[npk]

268. Right. n/t

[Tanuki]

190. What about "To Sir With Love"?

But then I suppose that would be criticized by some here on the grounds that the teacher falls into the "magic Negro" stereotype. Seems like a no-win situation.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

204. You're right, but here's the solution.

Why not show minorities as regular people, as neither charity cases nor quasi-religious figures? In other words, why doesn't Hollywood largely portray minorities as they do white people?

[npk]

207. They do. Jesus Christ

This is one fucking movie. It's a true story on top of that. They couldn't just make shit up they had to tel the story as it happened. There are hundreds of movies that portray black people as regular people. You are focusing on one movie and think that is representative of every thing that comes out of Hollywood, when it isn't. You are just clueless.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

236. They're few and far between.

The majority of those types of films feature an all-black cast and made by black filmmakers. As far as wide releases go, you'll see an occasional Will Smith or Denzel Washington movie that fits the criteria, but that's it.

And I've forgotten more about movies than you'll ever learn.

[npk]

269. Does the word progress mean anything to you

It doesn't all change overnight, but roles for African-Americans have become far more prevalent today and more roles are opening up every moment. Sorry if that is not fast enough for you.

[Hannah Bell]

302. i think that's more a variation on the "magic teacher" trope. that the teacher

was black, & the majority of the students white, means -- it was a british 60s film.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I agree with her

I put the book down and couldn't finish it. This isn't the answer. Not to diminish what this family did but we're talking about one kid in a huge group of kids living in poverty.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. "The Blind Side peddles the most insidious kind of racism..."

"...one in which whiteys are virtuous saviors, coming to the rescue of blacks who become superfluous in narratives that are supposed to be about them."

"The filmmakers would like to lull you to sleep with this milk of amnesia, hiding behind the fact that this bewilderingly condescending movie is based on an actual person—but one who you end up knowing almost nothing about"

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2009-11-19/film/the-blind-side-what-would-black-people-do-without-nice-white-folks/

[DFab420]

20. It actually happened though...

Wasn't it a true story? I mean if it was some made up story I guess I could see where she was coming from.

But it actually happened? Was the family racist for taking him in and helping?

[Raschel]

23. No, but what makes it notable for a movie? Take away the Black kid and would it still be a movie?

[lame54]

25. It might...

if the white homeless kid became a pro football player

[ourbluenation]

51. People helping people are good stories to share.

[DFab420]

59. Nice but...

Those pictures are RACIST! :sarcasm:


Sorry I couldn't help myself

[pnwmom]

31. But why, in the universe of movie making, cannot there be more movies

about functional black families instead of so many movies like this one and Precious?

[paulsby]

78. you are claiming there are not movies about functional black families?

really?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Not the way it happened in the movie.

The guy was already a star football player before they took him in to his home. It's not like they taught him how to play football after taking him in because they felt sorry for him, as shown in the movie.

"Was the family racist for taking him in and helping?"

Are they going out and helping any poor black children who aren't star football players with an NFL career ahead of them?

[Sgent]

42. Not sure how its done in the movie

but the book makes it pretty clear he hadn't played much football before meeting the couple.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. The interview he gave when this movie came out...

made it pretty clear that he knew how to play football before he met those people, and was rather insulted that the movie portrayed him as some sort of ignorant special needs buffoon.

[Sgent]

50. Read the book

its written by a well respected sports journalist, who spent a lot of time interviewing and reviewing paperwork from all the people mentioned (and more).

He was tested (IQ) by Memphis City Schools at two deviations below the mean when he was younger. He was in special ed -- and needed it. He thought he was going to be a basketball player and had played almost no football before attending the private HS, etc.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. No.

I'll take his word for it.

[TeeYiYi]

57. I saw that interview...

... He was not happy! That interview changed my opinion of the movie from the jump. I chose to skip it.

TYY

[Dappleganger]

44. That's a good question.

My husband's youngest brother have adopted two African American children, with no knowledge about how they will turn out and I think they are good people for doing so. Both had been in the foster care system for quite some time, too. Are they their 'saviors'? I dunno, but they are giving the kids a fighting chance just be choosing to be adoptive parents, period. They're my niece and nephew and twist my heart into tiny little knots of joy everytime they come for a visit.

[DFab420]

49. That's adorable..

But if you were to believe what some people are posting here ..then your niece and nephew are nothing but the product of racism..... Because obviously if a white family helps black people is racist in some way...

I think it's a blessing that they opened their home to two foster children.

[Dappleganger]

54. They have a pretty colorful home...

Their first was a white girl, then the two I told you about. They are now waiting on news about a new bi-racial girl (African-American/Asian). They live outside of DC and won't live anywhere else because their area is so diverse. My sister-in-law has a degree in early childhood development (specializing in at-risk kids) so she's perfect for the job. They have a huge, diverse support system and keep in touch with the siblings of their adopted children so they'll know each other as they grow up, too.

Anyone who has chosen to adopt children has my upmost respect.

[DFab420]

58. I agree. Upmost respect.

The love of my life is Korean by birth but was adopted by her family when she was an infant,and was raised in the Charleston area. Hilarious to see an asian girl with a southern belle accent haha..

We have already discussed that when/if we decide to take the next step and start a family we will definitely be adopting as well as making some of our own haha.

[bettyellen]

63. Upmost? WTF is upmost...ha ha.

[Pithlet]

86. No, that's not what anyone in this thread is saying at all.

It's amazing to me how far reading comprehension has fallen to the bottom on DU for some people.

[DFab420]

47. So your implying that..

they saw him as a work horse or something?

Jesus. How cynical are you man? Next time around hopefully they leave him in the streets I guess....'

Also he wasn't a star football player when the took him in btw.. He played his freshman year and then was taken in by the family...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oher

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Probably.

[DFab420]

60. well then..

Haha that's just sick man. Sick.

[NeedleCast]

26. *FacePalm*

FFS....

[LeftinOH]

32. Even though it's based on a true story, the film is a classic Great White Hope theme.

[supernova]

33. This movie squicked me out

for this reason. Too much white people congratulating themselves.

It could be that the real story is far more complex (and maybe therefore rewarding). But that's not the story that was published. Or would have sold. So we get the simplified version in this movie.

I haven't seen it. I'm not likely to either. I will wait until the man himself wants to tell his own story in his own words. That I will be interested to hear anytime.

[Liberal_in_LA]

69. +3

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. Nice White Lady Saves the Day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVF-nirSq5s

:rofl:

[XemaSab]

171. Burn

:D

[Cass]

48. It was a true story. What should the family have done? Turn their back on a kid

who needed their help because they or he wasn't the right color? I haven't seen the movie so I don't know if the movie focuses on the race issue, but Vanessa Williams sure does and its unfortunate. People shouldn't be knocked for doing good. Personlly I think the story would be just as compelling if the kid was white.

[Myrina]

66. ... its not about whether what the family did was 'right' or not ...

... its about whether or not the film about a white family 'saving the day' for a poor black kid deserves all the accolades and Bullock's Academy Award, because it re-inforces and glorifies the stereotype in some people's minds.

[gmoney]

82. Yeah, wouldn't want to glorify acts of charity and kindness

*facepalm*

[Myrina]

106. why glorify one particular rich white family instead of All the thousands of average families ...

... who do the same - every day of every year, and not get movie residuals out of it?

*facepalm indeed* :eyes:

[Toasterlad]

127. Where's Your Screenplay?

If you know of so many average families with unlauded stories of kindness, shouldn't you be writing movies for them?

[npk]

188. You have a problem with rich white families helping others

Who the fuck do you think contribute to charities, keep children hospitals in operation. How many poor people do you see contributing to charities, they don't because they can't. Without contributions of rich people, the world would be a pretty miserable fucking place. What part of that do you not understand?

[emilyg]

223. +10

[Cass]

137. Why should this story be hushed up simply because the family is white and the kid is black?

How about we look at this as human beings helping another human being who needed help which is what the movie is about. Why make this about race? The family didn't let race enter the equation, they simply did what they could to help another person in need.

[Critters2]

164. I thought she got that award for her acting. Thanks for clarifying! nt

[npk]

187. Then that is tough shit for those people who believe that

So we should stop making movies about true stories because of all of the people in this world who have an agenda or are just too fucking stupid to understand the meaning of the film.

[gmoney]

81. Evidently turning their back on him would have been the right thing to do

Vanessa, how many at-risk kids have you brought into your home and championed to get them real opportunities?

[npk]

189. Vanessa should rightfully give back the money she has made off of generous white people

Since she is so sick of the stereotype of white people supporting black people who can't support themselves. She doesn't seem to have a problem with the generous spirit of those same people who have perched her lofty ass in the upper class.

[closeupready]

52. Hollywood has promoted that subtext in many films over the years.

I haven't seen the film discussed here, nor did I see Williams' View appearance (nor, by implication, the full context of her statement), but in general (as a white man), I agree with what she's saying.

[cornermouse]

61. So what do you think of white families that serve as

foster parents to black children? Should people only be allowed to foster children of the same race?

[Myrina]

67. .. there just shouldn't be movies glorifying it , that's all Williams was saying, IMO

n/t

[cornermouse]

98. Actually I was thinking about regular

kids in the foster child system.

[npk]

191. The movie doesn't glorify it.

It simply encourages other who have the means to do the same. That is generally how the word is spread.

[Raineyb]

170. That's not what's being said. What's being objected to is the perpetuation

of the stereotype of the kindly white person who helps out the poor negro (who apparently couldn't do anything for him or herself without intervention.) WTF does this have to do with real life anything? The discussion is about a stereotype and a movie that some people think perpetuate that stereotype.

[misanthrope]

62. The film is a rationalization of a contemporary plantation system...

...that goes by the name of college football. And, yes, I know what I'm talking about because I've spent enough time around college football – including playing at a lower level and later working in the athletic department of one of the South's biggest football factories – to know that they chew these kids up and spit them out. I've seen it firsthand.

Oh, yes, upper middle class white Southern Yuppies will save the day. I find it a bit suspicious that they couldn't find that warm spot in their hearts until a kid with undeniably freakish physical gifts (bearing a potential massive payday in the future) was in need of a helping hand. And then after all of that, he ends up signing to play at the alma mater of both his "adopted" parents. Funny, huh?

And if he was as "special needs" as depicted in the film, the ease of his acceptance into ostensible "universities" would be further indictment of the crooked nature of top level college football.

I would have to agree with Ms. Williams.

[gmoney]

84. Yeah, leave the kid on the streets

I think a street gang could use an oversized enforcer type like him.

[misanthrope]

100. Where are all the other kids they adopted?...

...The ones without the NFL payday and glory for "the good ol' alma mater" in their future? They certainly appeared more than able to offer that opportunity before the potential All-Conference tackle came down the pike.

I've spent too much of my life around folks like that and their culture to not be suspicious. My hunch is if that kid didn't have "gridiron star" written all over him, he would have indeed been left on the street like so many others.

[Shell Beau]

105. So, what they did still isn't good enough. Jeez.

Sometimes it is never enough for some people.

[misanthrope]

123. Some of us refuse to go through life blinkered...

...It isn't a matter of "good enough." It's the transparency of their actions. They've cashed in big time.

[Critters2]

165. Shouldn't you be taking care of all the kids you've adopted,

instead of arguing on the internet?

[misanthrope]

178. I'm waiting on the results of their physical tests...

...the 6' 6" 12-year-old already has a 26" vertical jump and we've got our eye on a 14-year-old who can bench press about 250 lbs. right now. Of course, if he can't get his 40 yd dash time down below 4.8, it's back to the homeless shelter for him.

[npk]

195. Yes they have made loads off this young man

Oh wait except they haven't.

[WolverineDG]

201. Instead HE'S made loads because they took him in nt

[npk]

209. Well you know that doesn't fit the story line here. Greedy white people. n/t

[npk]

194. The family was already wealthy

What could they have possibly hoped to gain by taking this boy in other than love and respect. Gees there are so many clueless people on DU these days it is astonishing.

[earth mom]

64. Has Vanessa lost her mind? The film is based on a TRUE story!

I can see her argument if the story was a hollywood fabrication, but it's not.

:crazy:

[Pithlet]

87. Yes, because there are no other "true stories" that are different. n/t

[earth mom]

312. What in the hell is wrong with you that you would diss a movie that shows kindness to strangers?

You might want to knock that chip off your shoulder since it is obviously weighing you down.

[pnwmom]

88. So? Couldn't they have found a true story about a black family taking in a child?

Like that never happens.

:sarcasm:

[gmoney]

96. maybe the producers should have cast Vanessa in Sandra Bullock's role?

"Oh, here's a script based on a true story about a family who takes in a homeless kid, gets him into school, helps him get a college scholarship, which leads to a pro football contract... wow! Oh, wait, we can't make this... the family's white. Nevermind."

[pnwmom]

213. How many true screenplays involving positive black characters did they turn down

because they thought this one featuring white heroes would make more money? That's the question.

[earth mom]

311. It's a free country-make your own movie with that storyline and maybe it will win an oscar.

But for Vanessa Williams and you to nit pick the film for such bullshit reasons is just petty and small minded even though it's obvious neither you would ever admit it and would instead rather rant at everyone in righteous indignation that life is just so damn unfair! :eyes:

[Raineyb]

172. So what? It's not a documentary.

You do know that anything "based on a true story" is still fiction right?

[Hosnon]

65. If she hasn't seen it then it's ridiculous for her to comment on it.

And the argument that she would be supporting it by watching it and does not want to support anything she doesn't like is equally ridiculous in its circularity.

[pnwmom]

90. She knows enough about the overall plot to know what category the film is in.

She doesn't need to see it to know she'd rather support other kinds of films instead.

Don't we all make such choices? Haven't you ever said you didn't want to go to a certain movie because it wasn't the kind of movie you'd want to see?

[Hosnon]

120. Of course. But I would never expect anyone to think my doing so was

a worthwhile critique on the substance of the movie.

For me, it's much more telling that her first reaction to the story was negative.

[treestar]

202. Come on, she should at least see it before critiquing it

That's a minimum standard.

Who cares if seeing it means she is "supporting" it? If you want to critique something, you have to be familiar with it.

She has prejudged it! That's prejudice!

[fishwax]

129. not really that ridiculous

She made it clear that she hadn't seen it, so it's not as though she was claiming an expertise that she didn't have. People talk about things they haven't seen all the time--as a way of discussing whether or not they're interested in seeing it and why, for instance.

[swilton]

80. Analogous Criticisms have gone to the Hurt Locker

Robert Scheer - I think did the editorial on that and said that Iraqis were invisible in the film - a movie that never questioned American imperialism.

I don't like Sandra Bullock so I won't see this either.

I find both criticisms valid comments on what I perceive/have perceived as the dumbing down of our society by the movie industry.

[True_Blue]

101. Michael Oher won't even see the film

"... are three other players who owe their pro careers in part to white families who provided them havens from adverse circumstances, and Oher wishes his story were just as underreported as theirs. He's generally loath to discuss that difficult period in his life, and says he only flipped through the book and has no plans to see the movie...."

"You read this book or see this movie and think, Aw, he has all this and all that," Oher says. "People don't realize I had to work extremely hard to get where I am, and I'm working even harder to get better."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1163290/index.htm

[fishwax]

136. thanks for that link

"For the past three years Oher has seemed like a secondary character in his own life story."

[southernyankeebelle]

107. I agree with her. Am white and we have no idea what a black person feels like and the

racism they experience. I grew up never experiencing discrimation other than being fat. I always was raised around all kinds of kids living on a military base. We would spend the night at each others homes. They were no differences. It wasn't til my dad retired and we were moving from Tx to Pa did I noticed racism and was shocked. I remember we stopped at a gas station and there was a water fountain for whites and one for blacks. I was so shocked and I asked my dad. He was very embrassed by it. But blacks are just as good as whites and can do very well on their own.

[Quezacoatl]

110. How dare they

How dare the producers not change the races of the people in this true story? How dare they make this movie at all? Movies should only be made about people of the same race helping each other.


I heard Vanessa Williams is upset that a movie is being made about Barack Obama's life. She's upset because in the movie he's raised by some white lady.


"Williams argued that film only reinforces the notion that African-Americans need whites in order to succeed."

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

111. This should send a message to all white famlies everywhere

Next time you see a black kid walking on the side of the road, just keep driving.

[apples and oranges]

138. I don't think that is what VW was trying to say

Her comment wasn't anti-white but anti-Hollywood stereotypes.

[tammywammy]

113. I saw the movie and I liked it

I'm white and I never thought of it as a "oh look, the white family helping out that black kid." I thought "Oh look, that family is helping that kid." To me it was about people helping people.

[nonconformist]

118. What a sad commentary on society when a movie about a person helping another person is criticized.

Unbelievable.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

126. I agree.

[riderinthestorm]

208. +2.

Gosh, we can't have any other priviledged white families take a look at any of the millions of black teens in foster homes waiting for some kind of permanent placement....

Nope, we have to have Vanessa Williams trash this family cause they're white and had the audacity to take in a black boy, sending the message to white families that their loving home "sends the wrong message".

What a hypocrite.

[fishwax]

212. where did Vanessa Williams trash the family?

:crazy:

[pnwmom]

214. She absolutely did NOT trash the family. Anything but.

She's concerned with the choice of the filmmakers to keep filming movies like this one and Precious instead of other movies with positive black characters.

[Neecy]

128. Why is her POV being so trashed here?

I can completely understand why she would take exception to the plot. It plays into a stereotype that black kids are just set loose by their parents and that they only succeed when a white person takes pity on them. I can see why it would make white people feel good and hip and all, but from her viewpoint it's just offensive. Why not just accept that she feels this way? Why trash her?

The only film I can think of that takes the above situation and turns it on its head is A Patch of Blue - lower class blind white girl (almost) saved by a kind black man. That's the only one that I can think of. One. Did we really need another Great White Hope movie?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

152. 1. Because it's a black woman complaining about racism.

2. They enjoyed their stupid racist Sandra Bullock movie, and can't take the criticism.

Probably the same people that liked "Crash."

[npk]

197. Yeah that's it

It has nothing to do with the fact that Vanessa Williams has never met this family, or seen the movie she criticizes. Apparently no kind deed goes unpunished in Vanessa Williams eyes.

[fishwax]

210. She doesn't really criticize the movie

She explains why she wasn't really motivated to see it. It's rather curious that it has inspired such a heated and sometimes angry response.

[npk]

218. It's not hard to understand why people are upset at what she said

She basically used a movie she has never seen to talk about a problem with the way Hollywood makes movies. A notion that is asinine at best. Miss Williams, herself an actress, used her interview on the View to call into question the motives of one film, and the prevailing thought that hollywood is furthering a notion that black people can only succeed when white people help them. As I said that is not only an asinine statement - it is in fact false; African Americans have for more than half a century succeeded at often times despite what the white person has done. In the end she comes across rather clueless. And anybody with any sense on the matter knows that you don't invoke the example of something that you haven't seen.

[fishwax]

220. she participated in a discussino about Sandra Bullock's Oscar

She didn't "use her interview to call into questions the motives of the film"--she was a panelist in the discussion, and when asked her take on Bullock's Oscar acknowledged that she hadn't seen it and explained why.

"As I said that is not only an asinine statement - it is in fact false; African Americans have for more than half a century succeeded at often times despite what the white person has done."

That's not inconsistent with anything Williams said :shrug:

[chrisa]

130. Did she actually see the movie - beginning to end?

How could she say that without actually seeing the movie?

[fishwax]

134. she was talking about why she hadn't been particularly interested in seeing it

[npk]

199. She was going to see it, but you know...

So much to do. Like prepare for her big trip to The View to talk about things she has no clue about. She did however find time to buy a perfect dress for the occasion. Though I am sure she will donate that dress to the poor after she is through with it.

[Arkana]

139. Um, it's a TRUE STORY.

It ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

[Raineyb]

173. Um it's BASED on a true story. It's still FICTION n/t

[WolverineDG]

142. Damn the Tuoys for saving Michael Ohr!

is what you're really saying. :eyes:

I see the film as an indictment against all of us for allowing children to grow up in horrific conditions of crime, neglect, gangs, & drugs just because they are minorities and/or poor.

dg

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

143. The Race Warrioirs are out trying to make news again.

:eyes:

Let me guess... unless someone in need has the same skin color as you you should should just look the other way?
After all, THEY don't need no stinkin' help from YOUR KIND.

amiright?

[Pithlet]

162. No, you're not, because that wasn't what was being said.

It's a criticism of the topic of movies Hollywood chooses. That's it. Nothing more.

[Raineyb]

175. Bloody hell do you have ANY reading comprehension skills?

VW never made a point about interracial adoption. She was talking about stereotypes as put out by movies and of which this one movie is an example. There is NO argument about helping others of any race at all.

Looks like that would be more YOUR projection and says a hell of a lot more about YOU than it does Ms. Williams.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

177. How is this movie a stereotype? It's a true story.

Someone was told a true story and obviously was moved by it enough to share it's values with millions.
The movie is about helping and loving people in need in the face of social adversity.
I don't think the director/writer should be under any scrutiny to seek out something more soothing to hypersensitive racewarriors.

[Raineyb]

179. It's BASED on a true story. That doesn't make it true.

If you can't even tell the difference between fiction and non fiction then what's the point?

Hypersensitive race warriors?

Of course you're perfectly satisfied to have all kinds of negative stereotypes put out there after all more than likely it's not YOU who is negatively depicted right?

I think you know the phrase that goes along with that attitude.

[fishwax]

180. If by "Race Warriors" you mean all the folks overreacting to/distorting VW's comments, then yeah

She was asked about Sandra Bullock winning the academy award and discussed why she hadn't gone to see the film. Not really a big deal, except for those inclined to get upset whenever a black person mentions race.

[apples and oranges]

149. This is why race cannot be discussed in this country

her criticism was of Hollywood movies not of whites adopting african americans.

[npk]

216. The reason we cannot talk abut race in this country

Is because so many white people are scared they will labeled as a result of that discussion. White people feel they are damned if they do damned if they don't. Vanessa Williams believes that this film only reinforces the notion that African-Americans need whites in order to succeed. That means that Vanessa Williams already believes that there is such a notion out there. That basically the film just reinforces the notion. So what are white people to do. What are filmmakers to do. When a compelling story like this one comes along should they ignore it because it perpetuates a notion that black people cannot help themselves, a notion that is asinine at best. Black people have been helping helping themselves in this country for more than a century, and often times despite the work of many white people.

If filmmakers were to ignore a story like this what kind of message would that send. How many people would be up in arms on that account.

Part of the reason why some white people are hesitant to get involved in poor minority communities is because of people like Vanessa Williams. They fear that they will be labeled as somebody only looking to exploit off poverty and that their motives are not really just. But if white people do nothing to help in minority communities then they are called uncaring wealthy elitist.

I guess films like RFK helping young African American mothers escape poverty would fall under the ire of Miss Williams. More than likely what really bothers people like Miss Williams about this film is that this family was from the south and even more the horror was white and Republican. Oh Shit! It's really a shame that a movie is being attacked for helping another person.

edit: typo

[fishwax]

219. that's pretty weak

"Is because so many white people are scared they will labeled as a result of that discussion. White people feel they are damned if they do damned if they don't."

If I thought that were the main problem, I would think white people should get over it. But I don't really think that's the case. I think it's much more common that some white people just get defensive whenever the subject of race is brought up. Often, it winds up basically shutting discussion down, because the original comments are distorted and taken out of context. Like in this thread, for instance. Vanessa Williams didn't say anything against this family. She didn't suggest that they were trying to exploit Michael Oher. She didn't attack the filmmakers or even the film itself, just raised the possibility that this movie echoes the tired theme of the white hero. (It's not, after all, the story of Michael Oher, but rather the story of Leigh Ann Tuohy.)

The sarcasm that has been directed towards Vanessa Williams on this thread is severely misplaced. But, sadly, not surprising.

[npk]

222. See that's just my point

Only a person who sees the world through race would use a term "white hero". Most people who watch this movie just see a family taking in a young man without a real home. I guess Vanessa Williams doesn't like this message getting around. Sad really. If I were a young man living on the streets I would be grateful of a family who offered to take me in. I wouldn't see it as "Thank god this family came along cause I never would have succeeded without them." I would see it as a family offering me a hand up and opportunity for me to take advantage of a little help. I wouldn't really think about how it might through the race balance out of alignment.

[fishwax]

225. I don't see how that's your point at all

"If I were a young man living on the streets I would be grateful of a family who offered to take me in. I wouldn't see it as "Thank god this family came along cause I never would have succeeded without them." I would see it as a family offering me a hand up and opportunity for me to take advantage of a little help. I wouldn't really think about how it might through the race balance out of alignment."

What something means to an individual in a real life situation is quite different from what someone means in the context of a Hollywood movie. The film is not the experience. And it's silly to suggest that Vanessa Williams doesn't think people should hear about good things that people do or that she doesn't think white people should help black people or any of those things.

[npk]

230. Yes but Miss Williams was talking about the context of a movie

"Williams argued that film only reinforces the notion that African-Americans need whites in order to succeed."

So it is fair for me to talk about how the context of "this" movie and how it is often perceived by other people. Not in the light of black and white, but simply in general terms of helping another person, in light of difficult circumstances. Yes things in life are often more complicated than that. But that doesn't mean that themes taken form movies don't have a benefit to society, because they do.

[fishwax]

233. well, yeah, but that some people may view the movie that way doesn't negate VW's perspective

or explain the intensity of the negative response to her simply raising the issue.

[npk]

229. This is what she said:

"Williams argued that film only reinforces the notion that African-Americans need whites in order to succeed."

Listening to the interview we can extrapolate that Miss Williams believes there is a notion in this country that African-Americans only succeed because of whites. We can also assume that she herself believes this. That is what she said, ok. She then goes on to argue that this film "The Blindside" is at the very center of furthering that notion. That is the problem I have with what she said.

There have been just as many movies in which Hollywood has shown life experiences through the eyes of a black character in which little or no help was offered. Another issue with the statement that she made is that she seems to imply she would be ok with a film by Hollywood that promotes an African_American family helping an African_American kid.

The problem I have with what she said is that she tried to make a correlation between society and a Hollywood movie, without seeing the movie. I am sorry but liberals do not get a pass when they speak out. Maybe if she had seen this movie I would be able to say, "Ok well that's her opinion, after all she did see the movie." But that is not the case.

When Barbara Walters is making the most sense you know that you have slid off course.

[fishwax]

231. That's pretty funny -- you say "This is what she said:" and then don't include a single word of hers

Listening to the interview we can extrapolate that Miss Williams believes there is a notion in this country that African-Americans only succeed because of whites. We can also assume that she herself believes this. She then goes on to argue that this film "The Blindside" is at the very center of furthering that notion. That is the problem I have with what she said.

I don't see how you can extrapolate that from what she said. She didn't say anything close, unless there's some other clip out there that I'm unaware of. Nor does she doesn't go on to argue that the movie is "at the very center of furthering that notion."

There have been just as many movies in which Hollywood has shown life experiences through the eyes of a black character in which little or no help was offered. Another issue with the statement that she made is that she seems to imply she would be ok with a film by Hollywood that promotes an African_American family helping an African_American kid.

To the first sentence: I don't know if that's true, but even if it is, that isn't really relevant to the kind of metanarrative that this film is engaging. To the second sentence: So what?

The problem I have with what she said is that she tried to make a correlation between society and a Hollywood movie, without seeing the movie. I am sorry but liberals do not get a pass when they speak out. Maybe if she had seen this movie I would be able to say, "Ok well that's her opinion, after all she did see the movie." But that is not the case.

She pointed out a frequent narrative theme that the movie appears to engage. She didn't pretend that she had seen it, so she wasn't claiming any authority that she didn't have.

[npk]

235. Sure.

She spoke out of place and now she is getting criticized for doing so. Some people don't like that. Funny how they can't seem to understand how other people feel on what is a sensitive subject. Vanessa Williams in one sentence diminished the message and positive effects of a film that has a great story. People like to put what celebrities like Williams said into higher regard. Many people will believe what Williams said and completely dismiss a film even without seeing it. It is shame people like you can't seem to understand that. But oh well.

[Raineyb]

239. Spoke out of place? Who the fuck do you think you are?

Vanessa Williams is entitled to her opinion. Your problem seems to be that a black woman dare criticize a meme in movies that you can't be bothered to face.

You're out of fucking order.

And you sound like a fucking bigot to boot.

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

250. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

272. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[npk]

274. Nope sorry I think I will stick around

Yet another personal attack. Looks like you lost bad tonight. Still can't call up what I said that's racist. Well I gave you a shot.

[fishwax]

241. "she spoke out of place"? What, exactly, is her place?

This last post of yours seems like a bit of a tangent, and doesn't really engage with any of the points I raised before, but I'll address your points just the same.

She spoke out of place and now she is getting criticized for doing so. Some people don't like that.

How did she speak out of place? It was a panel discussion about the Oscars. She was on the panel. The subject was Sandra Bullock's award, and so she acknowledged that she hadn't seen the movie and discussed her perception of the film from other sources. How is that "out of place"? :wtf:

Funny how they can't seem to understand how other people feel on what is a sensitive subject. Vanessa Williams in one sentence diminished the message and positive effects of a film that has a great story.

That's rich--complaining about a lack of sensitivity about a movie while engaging in an overheated, sarcastic attack on Vanessa Williams for broaching the sensitive subject of Hollywood's depiction of African Americans. You say that with one sentence, Vanessa Williams "diminished the message and positive effects" of the film, but I'm curious what that sentence was.

People like to put what celebrities like Williams said into higher regard. Many people will believe what Williams said and completely dismiss a film even without seeing it. It is shame people like you can't seem to understand that. But oh well.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But I don't see how that's relevant. Perhaps there are those who won't see the film because of what Vanessa Williams said on The View. I'm not convinced that's true for very many people at all, but even if it is, so what? That doesn't have anything to do with the point itself. Nobody expects the other people on The View to not express their opinion just because someone in the audience might act on it.

[npk]

243. Spoke out of place. Yes in that she was giving an opinion without all the facts

For the last time she did directly reference the movie. I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand. She spoke out of place without first having seen the film in which she was going to talk about. She could have just as easily said that "Without having seen the movie I don't really know." But that is clearly not what she said.

[fishwax]

244. she acknowledged that she hadn't seen it

It's pretty stupid to think that nobody should ever have an opinion about or talk about something that they haven't seen. If everybody did that, they wouldn't ever know which films they wanted to see.

She *acknowledged* that she hadn't seen it. She wasn't speaking out of place.

And what did she say when she directly referenced the movie? Based on all the weird things you've attributed to her, I'm not convinced you've actually seen or read what she really did say.

[npk]

245. I get it. So people should just talk about thing without any knowledge of what they are talking

about. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Except it doesn't. She obviously felt strongly enough to talk about it. She should have at least had the courtesy to watch the movie and then give an opinion. Yes I think it unwise to give an opinion, especially when you are trying to make the kind of correlation she was making, when you have not seen the movie. Having an opinion is more than just having an opinion. It's having the facts to then give your opinion on what you think those facts add up to.

[fishwax]

249. she had knowledge of what she was talking about

She had knowledge of a recurring theme in Hollywood movies, she had the knowledge of the basic storyline and how the movie was sold, and she had the knowledge of how some in the African American community have responded. And that's all she was talking about. She made the fact that she hadn't seen the movie yet perfectly clear.

Barbara Walters *asked* her about the film and she talked about (a) the fact that she hadn't seen it and (b) a response to the movie in the African American community. It's one thing to disagree with what she said, but it's rather silly to insist that she didn't have any knowledge of what she was talking about or that she was talking out of place. And it's downright absurd to read what she said as in any way suggesting that white people shouldn't help black people, etc.

I ask again: did you actually read or hear what VW said? Because your discussion of her comments betrays very little knowledge of what she actually did say.

Having an opinion is more than just having an opinion. It's having the facts to then give your opinion on what you think those facts add up to.

Yeah, that's pretty much what she did. Of course, nobody ever has *all* the facts, so the important thing is to give a listener a specific sense of where you're coming from, and in acknowledging upfront that this opinion was not a *review* of the movie because she hadn't seen it, that's what she did.

[npk]

252. Oh brother

She used a movie that she had not seen to advance an opinion that she has held about Hollywood for quite some time. Only here on DU could that be considered to have the knowledge. Ok, well that is your opinion. Obviously I disagree.

[fishwax]

255. lol

You seem to have an inability or an unwillingness to actually respond to the content of a discussion.

Again, she was talking about a common Hollywood theme and about a response from the black community to this specific movie. She didn't reference any specific details of the movie itself, and fully acknowledged that she was coming from a position of not having seen the movie itself. It's not really that unusual.

You, on the other hand, don't seem to have much knowledge of her actual words, in spite of your eagerness to condemn them.

[npk]

261. And referring a specific movie in doing so

Love how you just skim over that.

[fishwax]

262. yeah, but she was talking specifically about the response to the movie, not the movie itself

love how you can't acknowledge that. :rofl:

She wasn't giving a movie review.

[npk]

263. She wasn't talking about the movie.

Her exact words:

"It was a good performance, but it brings up a theme here's another white family that has saved the day..."

Except that is not what happened in the movie at all. Had Miss Williams and others actually seen the movie they would know that half a dozen people in this boys life help save the day, including the parent of an African-American student, and many others.

[fishwax]

270. Those aren't her exact words, but I applaud you for finally trying to see what her exact words were

I mean, you've been commenting on them for *hours* so it's only fair that you actually watch them.

She said "I'm sure she did a brilliant performance, but it brings up a theme for black folks that, okay, here's another white family that has saved the day, in terms of another black story that has to have a white person come and lift them up."

A few observations are in order here:

First, that's different from what you quoted.

Second, she's clearly articulating a response to the film that she knows of, rather than explicitly and concretely claiming that the film reinforces this stereotype or is at the center of moving this stereotype forward, as you've foolishly claimed elsewhere that she said.

[npk]

277. Yes she is assuming that the film will conform to the beliefs she already holds.

But you are correct that I could not tell what she said in the beginning because it is intelligible on the video. So for that I do stand corrected. Doesn't change the fact that she is assuming that this movie will involve another white family saving the day and having to lift them up. Again that is not the theme of the movie. Nor is it a prevalent theme in most Hollywood movies

[fishwax]

279. you're simply assuming things that aren't supported by what she actually said

And it wasn't just the beginning of the quote that you got wrong.

[npk]

282. I used your quote

"...It brings up a theme for black folks that, okay, here's another white family that has saved the day, in terms of another black story that has to have a white person come and lift them up."

SHE IS ASSUMING SOMETHING BASED ON WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE FILM WILL BE ABOUT, WITHOUT SEEING THE FILM. She also misses the entire message of the movie, but that is another issue.

[fishwax]

285. you used it, but you didn't use it well

"SHE IS ASSUMING SOMETHING BASED ON WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE FILM WILL BE ABOUT, WITHOUT SEEING THE FILM."

Screaming doesn't make it so. She's talking about a response the film has brought up "for black folk"--not necessarily assuming anything. As she says after Barbara Walters interjects: "I'm just telling you what people have said."

[npk]

288. Yeah after she realized how stupid of a statement she made

After Barbara interjected and she looked back at her, it was clear that she didn't want to continue that argument so then she threw out, "Well that is what I have heard." What people have said that. This is the first I have heard of somebody drawing that correlation.

[fishwax]

291. I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning

The "brings up a theme for black folk" makes it pretty clear that she's not talking about her personal response to the movie (since she's already acknowledged not having seen it) and that she's not offering a review of the movie itself.

"What people have said that. This is the first I have heard of somebody drawing that correlation."

There were people saying that way back last fall, when the movie was first in theaters.

[npk]

294. She seemed to agree with what other had said

Maybe she meant to say something else. However, the reality is what she did say

Nowhere in that quote does she attribute it to what other people have said, until after Barbara Walters calls her on it. That's a little convenient.

The whole time she was speaking she made those words her own.

I did not see all the things that were said about this movie. She should have made herself more clear, which she only mumbled out after she made those comments.

[fishwax]

296. she didn't attribute that part to her own reaction, either

I don't expect to convince you, as it's clear that even before you actually watched the video you'd made your mind up that she had to be horribly wrong. But at least you've backed away from the vitriol of your earlier posts, in which you claimed things like Vanessa Williams is "too fucking stupid to have a point" or that she "wouldn't like that" if white people were to help black people or that "no good deed goes unpunished in Vanessa Williams eyes" or that "Part of the reason why some white people are hesitant to get involved in poor minority communities is because of people like Vanessa Williams."

[npk]

280. Thank you for proving my point

She says it right there in the quotes, "it brings up a theme for black folks that, okay, here's another white family that has saved the day, in terms of another black story that has to have a white person come and lift them up." She is assuming, based on either what she has heard, which is wrong, or based on her own beliefs that something is true without actually researching to see if it is true. She is holding a belief that she can only support based on prior examples.

[fishwax]

281. no, she's talking about how some people in the black community have responded to the film

which is why later in the discussion she says "I'm just telling you what people have said."

[npk]

286. Oh come on.

This gets better and better. She is speaking for what other people have told her. :rofl: Yet it seems pretty clear she agrees with those statements as well.

[npk]

246. Christ on a crooked crutch

She made a statement. She used a recent film as an example of that statement. Then she looks even more foolish after she says she hasn't actually even seen the movie. I have a right to criticize that statement, as much as she has the right to make it.

[Name removed]

248. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

253. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[npk]

254. The commercial. Give me a break

You heard it folks. Any time Hollywood makes a movie in the future where a white person is kind to a black person, there is no need to see that movie. Thanks to Raineyb we know that movie will further the notion that back people are only likely to succeed when a white person helps them. No need to actually see the movie. They all are the same. How irresponsible of you to assume that.

[fishwax]

257. more distortion. what a surprise.

[npk]

259. No more facts.

A group on DU advocating it is ok to form your opinion on an issue without seeing what you are referencing. Because of past practices and themes. Just skip to the criticism of what you likely believe to be the case. Because something happened in the past I will speak about what is happening in the present without actually doing any research first hand. That is the DU moto.

[fishwax]

260. lol, yes "no more facts" sums up your approach to this discussion

:rofl:

[npk]

264. Your ignorance is amusing. Glad you think so as well. n/t

[fishwax]

271. *my* ignorance? I actually *watched* what VW said before commenting

Unlike some others :rofl:

[npk]

275. I'm sure you did watch it. It's your ability to understand and extrapolate what is said

That I have been talking about. But don't worry about it.

[fishwax]

276. well, your inability to understand it--even to the point of transcribing it--is quite clear

You extrapolated the hell out of it before you even saw it apparently :rofl:. That's pretty apparent from the ludicrous claims you've made about what she actually said. As to why you were so quick to attack Vanessa Williams for things she didn't actually say, well, that's an interesting question ...

[npk]

283. You mean this quote

"...it brings up a theme for black folks that, okay, here's another white family that has saved the day, in terms of another black story that has to have a white person come and lift them up."

Because it's clear that you think from this quote she isn't talking about the movie. Those were your words from a previous post.

[fishwax]

251. She acknowledged right up front that she hadn't seen it

"Then she looks even more foolish after she says she hasn't actually even seen the movie."

That's the first thing she said, so I don't see how she could look *more* foolish afterwards. Again, you demonstrate a very tenuous grasp on what she actually said. It almost makes one believe that you were quick to condemn her based on the text of the OP, rather than actually *watching* what it is that she said. That would be *hilariously* hypocritical.

"I have a right to criticize that statement, as much as she has the right to make it."
Of course you have that right. But when your criticism sarcastically suggests that she implied all kinds of crazy things that she didn't even come close to saying, well, that frankly makes you look pretty silly. At best.

[Ms. Toad]

185. I am disappointed in the superficial nature of discourse

in this thread - but grateful for the thread.

I had heard an interview with Sandra Bullock, and thought it sounded like an interesting movie based on her description of the character she was playing.

I don't recall race being mentioned, but if I had thought about it very long I probably should have guessed the child in question was African-American.

That I didn't immediately guess - and that I wouldn't have necessarily immediately have thought about the movie falling into the great white savior category says more about me than about the movie industry - and reminds me that I need to be more attentive to thinking about such things.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[BlooInBloo]

198. Alternatively, take the flip side: That's why Trading Places is such a good movie...

Well, that and Ackroyd and Murphy are so fucking funny.

[Shell Beau]

206. I wish it was just a nice story about humans reaching out to humans.

Why can't it be that? That is what is was. This is based on truth. This wasn't a made up story about white people coming in to save a black person. This happened. Humankind being kind. Anytime that happens in these days, it needs to be talked about. This story being told has helped people. I can't find anything negative about that. But I am white. So, maybe my opinion doesn't matter.

[Number23]

217. I agree with Vanessa and long for the day that more minority viewpoints,

lifestyles and perspectives are portrayed onscreen.

And the fact that this conversation has steered away from the initial topic of "how minorities are portrayed in movies and media" to "interracial adoption in America" is indicative of the kind of over-sensitivity and hysteria that overwhelms just about every single attempt to discuss racism in this country.

[The Gunslinger]

227. Isn't it a true story??

[ctaylors6]

232. I read the book - sounds quite different than the movie

IIRC the movie came out well before Michael Oher was drafted. It was much more about football, especially the evolution and importance of the left tackle position, than what I've heard the movie is about. Michael Oher was featured (again IIRC) because at the time Michael Lewis wrote the book, he was one of most, if not the most, promising tackles in college football at a time when the position had become so important. His story was definitely a main part of the book but much more in the context of football, primarily because of his position.

Michael Lewis's previous book Moneyball (which I also loved) was a fascinating analysis of baseball. His writing is, to me, captivating because he incorporates interesting personal stories. But they are very much sports focused and analytical about the sports.

I'll be interested to see the movie to see how they changed Michael Oher's story from the book. I can understand why it wouldn't be so focused on the history of the tackle. After reading all the comments on this thread, I'm pretty curious about the movie.

Michael Lewis is, of course, a NYT bestseller several times over, which I think is a big reason why this particular story was made into a movie. I also think it had a lot to do with Michael Oher being drafted in 1st round.

[thelordofhell]

237. What a load of crap

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go back to watching "Different Strokes" and "Webster".

[npk]

256. She actually says this

"It was a really great performance, but it brings up a theme, poor black folks, here is another white family that has saved the day. The same old story."

First off she acknowledges it was a great performance after she says she has not seen the film. You seem to have a problem understanding that she is making references in this case when she has only seen previews or excerpts of the film.

[fishwax]

258. hey, at least you're trying to deal with her actual words now

You got the words wrong, but at least you're making an effort. :rofl:

[npk]

292. I took the quote from you tube link

Oh brother.

[fishwax]

297. yes -- that's why I gave you credit for trying. But you still got the quote wrong,

as I've pointed out elsewhere, including transcribing what she really did say.

[npk]

299. You are correct.

At the beginning of the clip I could not tell what she said. I was not transcribing her entire statement only the relevant parts. I was paraphrasing her statement as to not change the gist of what she was saying. Though that hardly changes what, I mean what others she heard from, were saying. I keep forgetting she was speaking about what others thought.

[smalll]

266. Cut her some slack. She's hot!

(Sorry, it's late. :shrug: )

[Fool Count]

273. Not every poor kid (not even every poor black kid)

can be adopted by an affluent family. Hell, not even every poor black kid who can make
a good football player can be adopted by an affluent family. The story may be true,
but it is in no way inspirational. It may still work on some curiosity/human interest
level, but shouldn't be made into some kind of parable on race relations. The colors
of the parties are of little relevance here and can be changed completely arbitrarily
without affecting the moral of this story, if it has any. The most obvious one is
that being adopted by an affluent family significantly improves one's chances in life,
as does one's ability to play football. Not an eye-opening stuff really.

[Hannah Bell]

284. i wish someone would make a movie where it was the middle-class black person

who saved the downtrodden white people.

you can make a list the length of my arm of the other type.

[Last_Stand]

293. My favorite part of the movie...

was where sandra got all "sassy" with someone.

I had the ending figured out early though...**spoiler** the mailbox is a time portal!

[DailyGrind51]

306. President Obama was raised by his white family.

[w8liftinglady]

307. I've been in the hospital-must've been a slow news week-313 posts so far.

So,a movie that has a positive message and shows an at-risk youth succeeding is a bad thing.I hope Vanessa Williams is volunteering her time helping underpriveledged children,otherwise she is as full of shit as she claims this movie is.

[WolverineDG]

316. nah, this is just this weekend's poutrage

every week, there's something new to go batshit insane over.

And yeah, I wonder how many kids Vanessa's rescused herself, since she thinks it's racist if white people do it.

dg

[Stevenmarc]

308. Hey Vannessa how many homeless black kids have you picked up on your way to a red carpet swag suite

[Corgigal]

310. Vanessa was raised in Westchester NY

My mother knew her mother and Vanessa wasn't poor for one day in her life. It's nice she wants to related to the poor "helpless" black young man but she has more in common with the wealthy white parent. This whole damn thing is almost funny.

[Dream Girl]

315. I thought she was from Cleveland, Ohio???

[bigwillq]

319. From the great Wikipedia

(great can be taking seriously or as sarcasm! :P)

Williams was born in Tarrytown, New York, the daughter of music teachers Helen and Milton Augustine Williams Jr.<1><2> Williams and her younger brother Chris, who is also an actor, grew up in the predominantly white middle-class suburban area of Millwood, New York. Prophetically, her parents put "Here she is: Miss America" on her birth announcement.