Sex scandal has reached the Pope - he penned letter directing priests to keep abuse cases silent

[jonathon]

In 2005...and more...

VATICAN CITY – Germany's sex abuse scandal has now reached Pope Benedict XVI: His former archdiocese acknowledged it transferred a suspected pedophile priest while Benedict was in charge and criticism is mounting over a 2001 Vatican directive he penned instructing bishops to keep abuse cases secret.

The revelations have put the spotlight on Benedict's handling of abuse claims both when he was archbishop of Munich from 1977-1982 and then the prefect of the Vatican office that deals with such crimes — a position he held until his 2005 election as pope.

Benedict got a firsthand readout of the scope of the scandal Friday in his native land from the head of the German Bishop's Conference, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, who reported that the pontiff had expressed "great dismay and deep shock" over the scandal, but encouraged bishops to continue searching for the truth.

Hours later, the Munich archdiocese admitted that it had allowed a priest suspected of having abused a child to return to pastoral work in the 1980s, while Benedict was archbishop. It stressed that the former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger didn't know about the transfer and that it had been decided by a lower-ranking official.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100312/ap_on_re_eu/eu_church_abuse

:nuke:

[cutlassmama]

1. Not surprised at all. It was too widespread and too frequently occuring

with nothing being done for it not to have come from the top.

[HeresyLives]

2. Finally....it hits the ultimate 'home', directly.

[kestrel91316]

3. You Do realize the pope is completely untouchable from a legal standpoint, right?

He could murder choirboys and there would be no way to go after him.

[HeresyLives]

4. There's probably at least a hundred other ways to do it.

No donations for starters.

And the Vatican bank is already in trouble for money laundering.

Plus, if Berlusconi had the balls he's always bragging about, the Vatican is on their territory.

And of course the Mafia is likely to take a dim view of this.

We've already had one pope die mysteriously not too long ago. At this rate, we'll have two.

[eShirl]

7. You mean JP1, right?

That was one heckuva cold.

[HeresyLives]

9. Yup....no autopsy was allowed either.

Found sitting up in bed, too.

33 days he was pope...and then pffft.

[RainDog]

12. why?

why couldn't the international criminal court try him?

[kestrel91316]

23. Who's gonna march into Vatican City and take him?

[HeresyLives]

25. He'd put up armed resistance?

I doubt it. :rofl:

[kestrel91316]

31. You do realize that the Vatican is a sovereign nation and no other country would

dare send anyone in without Vatican permission to take him. That's an act of war and frowned upon by all but the most barbaric nations (such as the US under W).

I'm no catholic, mind you, and think all those damned pedophiles and crotch sniffers need to be locked up in the loony bin. But we do need to respect international law.

[HeresyLives]

36. When has that ever stopped anybody?

[RainDog]

26. UN forces n/t

[kestrel91316]

32. Under what law would they do so? Has he committed any crimes against humanity,

made illegal war against his neighbors, comitted genocide? Nope. He may be a pedophile and scum himself for all we know, but we do try to comply with laws. He is the head of state of the Vatican, a sovereign nation, and cannot simply be taken away.

[HeresyLives]

35. Sure he could be. Saddam was.

And pedophilia is a crime few people would support.

[RainDog]

39. Saddam was also hanged after a kangaroo court verdict

what's so different about the Ratfucker?

It would be especially sweet if UN forces arrested members of the Vatican hierarchy and tried them for operating an international pedophile ring (oh, there's also the male prostitution ring Ratfucker's right hand man was running too...)

If international police can go after the Mafia, why not the Vatican?

Crimes of this scale are crimes whether the person committing them has a lot of money or not.

[SpiralHawk]

5. This proves it: Pope Ratzinger is a Republicon

This is just what all the Republicons do with their skanky shit. They pretend it never happened. They go all occult. Then they forgive themselves, and get a Standing O from the other Republicons.

It's infallible.

[malaise]

10. They promote them SpiralHawk

It's freaking amazing - for covering up all this criminality on their behalf, he became their pope.
Fuck all of them - I'm so glad I saw though all that BS very early and not only walked out of the Catholic church but abandoned all religion.

Time to lock up these bastards.

[glinda]

72. Not only that but a closet Evangelical with his encyclical on "Evangelizing". His

demise of the Catholic Church will strengthen the Evangelical Church. Very sad really. What an ass Ratsie is.

[malaise]

6. Only one possible response

Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Walk away]

8. The Times has a good article too...

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/world/europe/13pope.html?hp>

He is going down (no pun intended). They are all just so corrupt that even the the biggest and best liars in the world (the Vatican) are having a hard time covering up.

They will likely weasel out of it but it's going to be messy.

[jonathon]

84. The parishners are really furious about this shit -

I never ascribed to Catholicism even when it was forced down my throat, but the older generation of my family never left. They are pissed about this whole thing.

Let it crumble down

[RainDog]

11. Is it possible to charge someone guilty of propagating a worldwide pedophile ring

with a crime and try them in Den Hague, in the way that international war criminals are tried?

Why doesn't pedophilia rise to the level of crimes against humanity, when entire generations have been destroyed by this criminal organization.

I would love to open the Vatican as a museum. get rid of the pedophiles and open the Vatican records.

[HeresyLives]

14. With anybody else, yes.

Never been tried with the pope.

I think the time has come, don't you?

[RainDog]

17. Yes. It would be one of the BEST things that could happen on this planet.

pedophiles who want to force women to have children should be in jail.

[HeresyLives]

21. I think so too.

This is disgusting, and it's gone on a long, looooong time.

[RainDog]

22. during the French Revolution, priests and bishops were murdered

in the streets, in their parishes, and via the guillotine.

I understand why they did this.

The church was simply another abusive arm of power that worked to sustain the incredible inequity in French society. The priests paid for this with their lives.

I wouldn't be one bit sad if the same fate befell this group - along with fundies who spew the same line of hate about women and homosexuals. I would be happy if they all dropped dead.

it would be a good thing for society if they no longer existed.

I'm also reminded of what happened to Mussolini when he was captured trying to escape from Italy. The partisans took him out into the street, murdered him and his mistress and strung them up in front of a gas station.

My dad was 17 at the time. He was ordered by his army sgt to march around Mussolini and spit on him.

I wish I could do the same with the Ratfucker in the Vatican now.

[rug]

29. You approve executing priests and bishops?

Would you draw the line at deacons or simply unconfirmed Catholics?

[RainDog]

33. I approve of this organization being destroyed

I said I understand why the certain aristocrats, the middle class and the peasant class revolted against the abuse of the church and murdered them.

I don't approve of another reign of terror.

but honestly, if a priest who had abused a kid was murdered, I wouldn't care. I would applaud, even.

because they have broken the fabric of society by their actions, so it's no wonder that people grow to hate the abusers.

if you had ever been abused, you would understand the rage and desire to punish them.

personally, I would prefer a trial in the international criminal court. I would love to see the catholic hierarchy walk out of the vatican in leg irons and stand trial.

I would love to see all assets of the church seized.

and those who perpetuated the abuse, if found guilty, would rot in jail b/c Europe does not have capital punishment, so in reality they would rot in jail for the rest of their lives, but, no, I wouldn't care if someone killed them.

I think they deserve to die for what they did.

[HeresyLives]

37. After 2000 years, I'd say it's time.

They've been a 'reign of terror' for that long.

[glinda]

73. Then you approve of the Evangelical Church being the largest Church should that happen?

[HeresyLives]

75. It's not even close.

[HeresyLives]

30. And a quote....

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." Denis Diderot (1713-1784)

[rug]

42. He also said, "From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step. "

[HeresyLives]

43. Fundies are fanatics alright.

See how barbaric they've become?

[rug]

44. There are fanatics all over the place.

[HeresyLives]

45. Running a global pedophile ring?

[rug]

48. Case in point.

Fanaticism engenders broad leaps.

[HeresyLives]

50. Are you defending this??

No one is making any 'broad leaps'.

We know...and it's been proven...that child abuse, especially sexual abuse, took place all over the world...for years and years, and was ignored and even accepted by the RC church.

Including by the current pope.

[rug]

57. Are you asserting this: the Catholic church is a global pedophile ring?

Leap is an understatement.

I don't know what's more pronounced, the distortion of the Catholic church or the distortion of international criminal law.

[HeresyLives]

58. Oh I think we've long passed that point.

Where have YOU been?

[rug]

64. Obviously not with you and the other learned Justices of the Hague.

[HeresyLives]

67. Obviously not paying attention to the news

[RainDog]

49. my pov, courtesy of Mario Savo:

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop!"

Which is why I would like to see the very top of the hierarchy of the church tried for running an international pedophile ring. The church has covered up these abuses all over the world.

you know, the catholic church as it exists for most people wouldn't change all that much. it's the family connection, the ritual, the observance and reflection that seem to make people stay with the church, at least the people I know. I understand that.

These same people are also pro-choice, use birth control, do not think women should be second-class citizens... they are catholic by tradition, not because of the powers-that-be in the church.

[HeresyLives]

52. Maybe they should look for new rituals.

I know the old ones are comforting...but this is beyond the pale.

Sometimes you just gotta let go.

[RainDog]

55. my issue is with the hierarchy, not what someone does in their free time

most all of the really important people in my life have been or are ex-catholics, or, more to the point, catholics by tradition who don't feel the need to actively promote those traditions.

if someone wants to believe in some version of a god, that's their business.

my grief is with the hierarchy who conspired to cover up the abuse of children all over the world.

no one that I know who is a practicing catholic would or does approve of such a thing. they are not the issue.

someone else's religious beliefs are only of concern to me when they try to intrude upon my rights or when they abuse the vulnerable.

[HeresyLives]

61. Priests don't have free time.

They are priests 24/7/365.

At every level of the church

[RainDog]

65. I wasn't referring to priests. I was referring to lay persons. n/t

[glinda]

74. We have Priests in our family and none were pedophiles and they worked all the time.

[rug]

53. Mario Savio, the Roman Catholic from Queens?

I don't think the machine he referred to was the church - or the guillotine.

[RainDog]

60. no. he was talking about the U.S. govt.

and as I noted earlier, I'm not calling for the guillotine.

maybe someone can ask Mario what he thinks about the current state of the church.

[rug]

63. I would if he hadn't died 14 years ago.

[RainDog]

66. well, I haven't kept up with his comings and goings

which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[RainDog]

68. while Mario has nothing to do with the issue at hand, this does

from the NYTimes piece-

When a sex abuse scandal broke in Boston church in 2002, Pope Benedict — then Cardinal Ratzinger — was among the Vatican officials who made statements that minimized the problem and accused the news media of blowing it out of proportion.

But as the abuse case files landed on his desk at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, his colleagues said he was deeply disturbed by what he learned. On his first visit to the United States as pope, Benedict met with abuse victims from Boston and said he was “deeply ashamed” by priests who had harmed children.

But victims’ advocates accuse the pope of doing little to discipline the bishops who permitted abusers to continue serving in ministry. The case in Munich, which was brought to the attention of the diocese by the daily newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung, was a result of “serious mistakes,” the archdiocese said in its statement.

---

lol. apparently not "deeply concerned" enough to not repeat the same actions in Germany.

but, really, the entire issue here is whether Savio is dead or alive.

[NashVegas]

13. Ratzinger Wrote the Deflection Book in the Early 1960s

IIRC. It was discussed here in the DU forums during the scandal and around the time he was going into office.

Basically, he wrote the church policy about how to keep victims quiet. 40 freaking years ago.

[HeresyLives]

16. Well he was the head of the Inquisition dept at the time.

They've changed the name of it, but that's what it was.

'On July 21, 1542, Pope Paul III, with the Constitution Licet ab initio, established the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition, staffed by cardinals and other officials whose task it was "to maintain and defend the integrity of the faith and to examine and proscribe errors and false doctrines". It served as the final court of appeal in trials of heresy and served as an important part of the Counter-Reformation.

This body was renamed the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office in 1908 by Pope Saint Pius X. It was changed to Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on December 7, 1965, at the end of the Second Vatican Council.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith#History

[tango-tee]

81. NashVegas, please see my post # 80...

...you may be interested in this book.

[Jefferson23]

15. Terribly sad and heartbreaking for the victims, and the children deserve

much more protection than mere lip service. Unconscionable behavior from the alleged men of God.

[tallahasseedem]

18. Didn't you know?

The church only cares about the well being of a child before it is born. After that, fair game!

Thank heavens I left the church a long time ago.

[Sub Atomic]

19. I'm glad the MSM has finally gotten around to this.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-pope-led-cover-up-of-child-abuse-by-priests.do

This is from 2006.

[jonathon]

41. Friday night news dump - but this is too big to stay hidden

Although they have apparently been pretty successful to this point.

My mother's side of the family is all Italian catholic and they are disgusted. This pope needs to resign now.

[femrap]

20. What do you expect from these

hypocritical dudes that wear pretty gowns? With all their money and secrecy, they feel immune to the law. I don't even think these dudes really believe in anything they preach. They just dig the power and oppression of the poor and women.

[upi402]

24. don your flame suit

:popcorn:

[HeresyLives]

28. No need for one.

I've never seen anybody defend this pope.

[K8-EEE]

27. Can't believe it took me 40 years to get out of that religion!

All the Catholic "communion politics" with the Repukes did it back in 2004 -- many things (including prop 8 here in CA) have made me glad since, add this to the stack. I sure don't miss it!

[asdjrocky]

34. Evil mother fuckers.

[Liberal_in_LA]

47. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

38. This wretch who travels the world in splendor, slandering and

casting stones at good people while he is guilty of this and so much more. Rotten to the core. People in that organization call him 'Holy Father'. Imagine that.

[peace13]

40. The real question is,,"Who would Jesus molest? " n/t

[ChicagoSuz219]

79. I think the real question is:

"How much did Nancy Pelosi know & when did she know it?" ;-)

(sorry... I douldn't resist)

[hunter]

46. I nominate Chief Justice Roberts as the next Pope.

He's got the right sort of creepiness about him and as Pope he'd be ineligible to serve on the Supreme Court.

[Vidar]

51. LOL

[glinda]

76. Pawlenty thinks he is the Pope.

[Caretha]

54. Thank good

according to prophesies...He's the next to the last pope to inhabit the earth.

[HeresyLives]

56. Yeah, I'm hoping that one's true.

I've been counting them off for years. ;)

[musette_sf]

59. Where there's fire, there's smoke

... we can only hope.

[JerseygirlCT]

62. The Catholic Church needs a big dose of sunshine.

It would cause a huge ruckus at first, like draining a pus-filled wound, but in the long run, it would leave it much, much healthier.

[RainDog]

69. the NYTimes piece has some interesting information

In Munich case, a priest from Essen, “despite allegations of sexual abuse, and in spite of a conviction — was repeatedly assigned work in the sphere of pastoral care by the then-Vicar General Gerhard Gruber,” who worked under Benedict when he was the archbishop.

In June 1986, the priest was convicted of sexually abusing minors and given an 18-month suspended sentence with five years of probation, fined 4,000 marks and ordered to undergo therapy...The former vicar general took full responsibility for the decision to reinstate the priest to pastoral work.

There was immediate skepticism that Benedict, as archbishop, would not have known of the details of the case.

The Rev. Thomas P. Doyle, who once worked at the Vatican Embassy in Washington and became an early and well-known whistle-blower on sexual abuse in the church, said the vicar general’s claim was not credible.

“Nonsense,” said Father Doyle, who has served as an expert witness in sexual abuse lawsuits. “Pope Benedict is a micromanager. He’s the old style. Anything like that would necessarily have been brought to his attention. Tell the vicar general to find a better line. What he’s trying to do, obviously, is protect the pope.”

---

This abuse was not only in Germany. There are cases being investigated in Austria and 200 people have come forward in the Netherlands with claims of abuse so an investigation is starting there as well.

[JerseygirlCT]

70. Given what we know of the situation in North America, I think it's pretty safe

to assume this problem is as widespread as the RCC. Finding a link to the very top might just cause the sort of uproar necessary to clean the place out. Another reformation?

[glinda]

77. yikes

[jonathon]

83. This is patriarchal religion that uses shame and fear to dictate morality

And, this story exposes the face of those who would try to dictate another's conscience through such means.

[Stinky The Clown]

71. The doctrine of Papal Infallibility only applies to matters of faith and dogma.

Sue him. Back them he was the Holy Fixer.

[misanthrope]

78. And there are plenty of Catholics who won't care...

...I married into a clan of hard-core Catholics, loaded with nuns and priests, who will defend Joey Ratz to the bitter end. They are old school types who believe in the traditional ways and the infallibility of the church. In a lot of ways, they are just as frustrating and hypocritical as my family of Southern Baptists.

[tango-tee]

80. It is even worse.

I was born and live (again) in Germany, in Bavaria, and am disgusted and ashamed.

There is a book by Peter Wensierski, published by Goldmann in 2007: "Schläge im Namen des Herrn" - my loose translation of the title is "Beatings in the Name of the Lord". This book tells the stories of children in Germany who were removed from their families in the 1950s and early 1960s, and ended up in the "care" of more than 3000 so-called Christian facilities, both Catholic and Protestant.

Reading their accounts of negligence, bigotry, abuse and outright sadism made me want to vomit. All under the guise of The Church. God. Jesus.

There was the Holocaust which was hatched right here in the country of my birth, a fact of history my generation has had to acknowledge in all of its horror, try to come to grips with (how?), speak to our children and grandchildren about, and cannot ever allow to be forgotten.

And then there are these accounts on top of it all. And no one knew about it?

The children this book speaks of have already reached retirement age; they have only now, after decades of agonizing, found the strength to come forward. No one had listened to them, because no one wanted to stir the pot - until now.

The terrible pain and scars they are carrying with them... Thanks to the great care they received courtesy of the Church.

[jonathon]

82. Omg.

This is shocking...but not really.

[Papa Boule]

88. "Beatings in the Name of the Lord"

It's how armies of unquestioning Right Wing Authoritarian foot soldiers are created.

I fear such an army has been created here, by the same means.

[RainDog]

89. abuse had huge effects upon people. it changes their brain structures

and it seems to be heritable.

the abuse the priests inflicted upon children, in other words, gets passed down through generations.

[Bluebear]

85. 'God's representative on earth' is he?

Holy moly.

[RainDog]

86. yes. patriarchal gods are abusers by philosophical outlook. n/t

[Patiod]

87. Is it maybe because Germany is so liberal?

That would probably be Rick Santorum's answer....

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/07/13/santorum_resolute_on_boston_rebuke/