The difference b/w Un/Rec total = Less than Zero and Un/Rec total = Zero

[omega minimo]

"<" is a chute that opens and all Recs go tumbling down it. No one knows what the actual tally is.

"0" is a hole that opens and all Recs go tumbling down it. No one knows what the actual tally is.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. But who cares? Really?

[peace13]

2. then why have it at all

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. A good question.

I don't think it's a very useful feature; it just starts dumb arguments.

[omega minimo]

5. It's funny to see who cares about it.

:spray: It gives them POWER!!!!

[SoCalDem]

12. Exactly.. things were better before we had EITHER

participation in the thread kept it alive..not just "K & R" or ""K & UNrec"..

the unrec feature just brought out the snipers, thread-nannies & score-keepers.

the "r" is not necessary either, if people just participate in the thread by adding to it...

a drive-by r or un r does not replace discussion..

[omega minimo]

4. The people who think others care that they use it as a weapon

and think those others are the petty and "bullies" :crazy:

You're right. It's pretty pointless.

[omega minimo]

6. UnKick

:kick:

[cali]

7. aside from you, who gives a flying rat turd?

[omega minimo]

9. I don't

:rofl: the petty feel empowered, so the difference makes a difference to them.

[Mari333]

8. omg its like a black hole

alternate universes!!!

[omega minimo]

10. where the numbers run backwards..............

:yoiks:

[Mari333]

20. sooo every unrec you get is a rec in an alternate universe!!

yayyyyyyyy


(ignore the grouchy people on here)

[SoCalDem]

13. oooh. thnaks Mari.. got me a new desktop pic

beeeeeyooooteeeeful

[Ms. Toad]

11. There's another difference

I just unrecc'd this thread. I unrecc'd it because it is basically a whine against unrec, which I happen to think is a very useful feature since it mostly keeps the rec-this-thread-if-you-think-this-minority-group-sucks threads off the greatest page. I routinely unrecommend threads whining about it. You wouldn't have known I unrecc'd this thread except for my announcement here - and that is the big and useful difference.

The whining about "why on earth would someone unrecommmend my beautiful, well, thought out, socially worthy post" that has been starting recently before the first substantive post in a thread will, largely, disappear - because the whiners will never know whether that 0 is really zero, or includes one or more hidden unrecs. Hence, whining about something that may or may not actually be true would subject the whiner to ridicule - and I doubt that anyone so concerned about not being liked would willingly subject themselves to ridicule.

[CTyankee]

14. Aw, I'm sorry you're whining about losing Un rec counts!

But you have whole bunch of other whiners so you can organize a great big PITY PARTY!!! Look on the bright side!!!

[omega minimo]

19. That was the most articulate whining on this I've seen -- EVAH!!!

[CTyankee]

22. There, there. Don't worry...you'll live.

You'll just have to buckle down and read the thread's posts...but, here's the silver lining: you may learn something! Think of that!!

[omega minimo]

24. Your reply is either misplaced or makes no sense whatsoEVAH

[CTyankee]

27. Well I am so sorry...nt

[omega minimo]

25. meaning the previous post you replied to. mebbe that's why your confused....

:shrug:

[Ms. Toad]

31. Huh?

I don't think you understood my post.

I don't care what the unrec count is - I'm just glad that no longer showing a negative count seems to have stopped the first post in a thread being someone whining about someone who dared unrec a "worthy" post. (i.e. losing a <0 count appears to be a good thing.)

[Bluebear]

16. Could you fit the word "whining" into your post a few more times?

[Ms. Toad]

30. I'm sure I could, if you really want me to.

If it hadn't been going on, I wouldn't have felt the need to call it by name, and I really don't know any other appropriate word to describe the actions of someone who watches a thread for what seems to be the sole purpose of noting whe the post count goes below zero in order to make the first substantive response in the thread a comment along the lines of "who dared unrec this worthy thread."

[omega minimo]

18. No it's not. I don't care. I think it's funny that the people who care, care about something

that was petty and arbitrary in the first place, maintain their illusion that others are the problem, the "bullies' etc.

Pretty pathetic :rofl: and funny

The only people who care at all about UnRec and post about it anymore are the same ones with the same petty complaints and control issues you are so eloquently articulating.

So the joke is -- NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THE ACTUAL TALLY IS. And the control freaks want to obsess over Zero vs. Less Than. You've made a lucid case for another logic, but it still doesn't make sense. Folks know that the Zero means +X and -X = 0, one way or another.

A sane adult solution is to not care; to accept it as arbitrary, some mystery that will have occasional tweaks to keep the Power Button people engaged, but ultimately be only under the control of those who open the Rec chute/Black Hole and decide what floats to the top.

:spray:

[CTyankee]

23. Here's a little secret: I don't care either.

I never either Rec or Unrec. and I don't give a damn about the Greatest whatits. I read. I learn. It suits me to think for myself...

[Ms. Toad]

29. The obligatory "who unrecc'd my post"

being the first post in a thread has pretty much vanished since they went to 0 being the lowest count.

"rec-this-if-you-think-X-minority-sucks" posts no longer make it on the front page - there are enough unrecs to counter that kind of mean-spirited and unworthy thread so it typically has a 0 or lower count

As far as not knowing what the tally is - I never cared what the tally was. I wanted the mean-spirited threads designed to attack a group of people, or to put down their concerns off the front page. They are not worthy of being considered the best of DU. Unrec pretty much fixed that problem.

Unfortunately, the instantaneous appearance of a <0 led to the "how dare someone unrec my thread" being the first post in somewhere around 1/3 of the threads in GD. Not showing vote totals less than zero seems to have fixed that annoyance (it didn't really rise to the level of a problem). That is a difference - and that was my only point. There is real difference at in impact on the discourse in a thread between having zero as a count, and having <0 show up early in the life of a thread.

[omega minimo]

32. IMHO

the whole mess is a solution to a problem that never existed, except in the minds of people who often seem as petty as what they claim to be so disturbed by.

And IMHO the honor of positive Rec concept was devalued by the introduction of a lot of mind games and power trips that apparently already existed and needed an outlet.

The UnRec button is that outlet. And whether it's 0 or <0, no one knows how many or where the "votes" go ...... it's completely arbitrary.

And funny.


:hi:

[Ms. Toad]

36. You must not be a member of any group

that was regularly targeted on the front page of DU with a "rec this thread if you think XXX should STFU" (XXX being typically gays, trans, ethnic minorities, or some other group that had had the audacity to express the desire for equal rights - or simply to have their concerns heard).

As a lesbian, it was very disheartening to repeatedly be greeted when I entered DU with several of the top threads being the equivalent of one of the above, day after day. Unrecs have put an end to that.

[omega minimo]

37. I'm a member and associate of many groups

marginalized on DU, including women, feminist, health, spiritual and African American, most of whom have stood down -- or left -- long ago. I didn't observe the Greatest Page wars. I know there were a lot of sharp elbows being thrown and a lot of people alienating potential allies with their attitudes. Maybe someone did want them to STFU. :shrug:

The groups and topics that are marginalized tend to have much in common and be vitally connected to solving our universal problems. Wonder if that awareness has increased with the changes to the Greatest Page.

[Ms. Toad]

40. I really don't care what ends up on the Greatest Page

I don't think it is visited that much - I never go there,and I don't think which threads are featured there makes a bit of difference as to the awareness within DU of the voices of marginalized individuals. The quantity or quality of discussion is not impacted (or at most very marginally impacted) by whether or not it makes the Greatest Page. If a thread generates discussion (i.e. posts, not recs), it continues to stay on the front page of the forum the user posted it in. If there is little interest, it will drop back to later pages and probably fade away.

I do think slapping already marginalized visitors in the face with two or three threads requesting thread recommendations if you want gays to STFU about marriage, or DADT, etc. - day after day on the home page of democraticunderground.com tends to discourage visitors who are the target of such threads from making repeat visits. (If you don't understand what I'm talking about, enter DU from the URL above - in the center of the page you will find the top 5 threads on the Greatest Page - prior to implementation of unrecs there were days when 3 of the 5 were slam threads. Now they are almost always either substantive threads or supporting a member (or positive political figure) facing hard times. I can't even remember the last time I saw a "rec this" slam thread.)

Regardless of whether you agree with the particular sentiment, threads which were created solely to slam already marginalized groups are not the best of DU, and should not be our face to the world (i.e. featured on the DU homepage).

There may have been other ways to deal with the problem that permitting only "yes" votes and then featuring the top vote getting threads on the DU home page created, but the solution that was implemented (permitting "no" votes) did solve the problem. I wouldn't have had an objection to some other solution - but the one that was implemented worked and the DU homepage is certainly more inviting than it was before unrecs were implemented.

[omega minimo]

43. Some groups are more equal than others

[Ms. Toad]

44. However equal they are, the home page of DU

shouldn't be a place where popular vote is permitted to be used to slam any group. Without unrecs, that is how recs were being used - and those slammed were unable to do anything about it.

As I said, the solution Skinner et. al imposed wasn't the only possible solution to a real problem, but it was the one they chose and it resolved the problem.

[omega minimo]

46. Are you saying this Greatest Page brouhaha was about one group?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

45. Then you just wait until there is one rec and then step on it. n/t

[omega minimo]

47. Another misplaced post?

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

15. The Unrec Zone..

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Unrec Zone".

[omega minimo]

21. LOL

:spray:

[pipi_k]

26. Didn't there used to be another similar show

called "The Pouter Limits"?

[Fumesucker]

28. Yes, and there was also Science Friction Theater . n/t

[omega minimo]

34. More recently there was

The unrX Files

[hay rick]

39. set to music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ8Mp_08rwk

[RexS]

17. I can predict that this post will never be at +1 rec

Says me.

[Greyhound]

33. I agree, who cares? But then I still don't see what the function achieves other than a negative

outlet that encourages bad behavior.

[omega minimo]

35. Yes

it's very bad to make fun of it :evilgrin:

[SidDithers]

38. Error: you can only Unrecommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours...nt

Sid

[omega minimo]

41. LOL

good one :hi:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

42. I was told there would be no math on this thread(nt)