Be WARY of Obama - Remember his decrying the Alito filibuster

[debbierlus]

I don't like him. He isn't a true leader. He proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt when he decried our efforts to keep the INSANE Alito off the supreme court bench. We were fighting the fight, working night & day to save our Supreme court from a radical fringe nutcase being permanently placed on the court. Obama didn't like the 'tactic' of the filibuster. It was such a slap in the face, ESPECIALLY to women. It was known his (Alito's) extreme views on religion & abortion. It was KNOWN that his appointment could become the death knell to a women's right to choose in this nation. And, then, he has the sheer audacity to act affronted with the 'partial birth' ruling last week, as if was any surprise with the make up of the court. He COULD have been a leader then, but he choose to denounce with arrogance those who were TRUE leaders, those who tried to stop the appointment. He showed me right then & there what kind of 'leader' he was...

I want a fighter. And, Obama failed the test. MISERABLY.

Sen. Obama criticizes filibuster tactic
WASHINGTON (AP) — To more effectively oppose Supreme Court nominees in the future, Democrats need to convince the public "their values are at stake" rather than use stalling tactics to try to thwart the president, said a senator who opposes Samuel Alito's confirmation.
Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., predicted on Sunday that an effort to try to block a final vote on Alito would fail on Monday. That would clear the way for Senate approval Tuesday of the federal appeals court judge picked to succeed the retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

Democrats fear he would shift the court rightward on abortion rights, affirmative action, the death penalty and other issues.

"We need to recognize, because Judge Alito will be confirmed, that, if we're going to oppose a nominee that we've got to persuade the American people that, in fact, their values are at stake," Obama said.

"There is an over-reliance on the part of Democrats for procedural maneuvers," he told ABC's This Week.

Sens. John Kerry and Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts are urging fellow Democrats to support a filibuster, citing in part Alito's conservative record on abortion and deference to executive power.

Alito's supporters must produce 60 votes to cut off a filibuster; an Associated Press tally shows at least 62.

The AP tally also shows that at least 53 Republicans and three Democrats intend to vote to confirm Alito; that is well over the required majority.

President Bush said Saturday in his weekly radio address that senators should have an up-or-down on a nominee "who understands that the role of a judge is to strictly interpret the law."

Obama cast Alito as a judge "who is contrary to core American values, not just liberal values."

But Obama joined some Democrats, including Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Charles Schumer of New York, in expressing his unhappiness with the filibuster bid.

"There's one way to guarantee that the judges who are appointed to the Supreme Court are judges that reflect our values. And that's to win elections," Obama said.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., said he, too, would support the filibuster attempt but agreed that it was not particularly wise.

"I think a filibuster make sense when you have a prospect of actually succeeding," Biden said on CNN's "Late Edition." "I will vote one time to say to continue the debate. but the truth of the matter" is that Alito will be confirmed, he said.

[Colobo]

1. Who should we support then?

Obama sucks. Now, tell me who's the real deal according to you.

[Ian David]

4. I'm voting for Sharkey The Impaler!

Jonathon "The Impaler"
Your Next President

http://www.theimpalerforpresident2008.us/Jonathon.html

[HereSince1628]

10. Celtic Pink? That's interesting! But my vote is with Vlad the Impaler

Nothing like making people on a stick by running a pointed timber thru your enemy's anus to REALLY bring out the vote.

[Colobo]

17. Is it just me, or the poster who opened this thread

has posted the same thing on other Obama threads and refuses to say who's a better alternative...?

Bombthrowing? Or as we say in Puerto Rico: "Throwing the stone and hiding the hand..."

[natrat]

75. kucinich but no one will vote for him-obama just another slippery pol

[skipos]

15. The reanimated corpse of FDR!!!

I like Obama, Edwards, Clark, Richardson and Gore and they have all done things I don't like.
I am the least into Hillary...

[ShortnFiery]

2. He failed ONE of your tests and now it's time to throw him overboard.

That tells me all I need to know. :eyes:

God Bless Obama! We need "good character" before "connections."

And Obama is The Man. :applause: :patriot:

[Captain_Nemo]

12. Abortion rights is a big test - it's our lives and freedom at stake. n/t

[Malikshah]

18. That's not simply one test.

He 1) caved in a miserable fashion
2) had the hubris to go on record as he did, thinking that folks would ignore it later on
3) has no regard for the history of this country; by opening the door for Alito, he and the others knew damn well what would happen.

That's not even adding in the callous disregard for over half the world's population.

[karynnj]

26. the problem is that few people other than Kerry and Kennedy

did what was needed here. Sadly, neither are running - though I would take either of them over the entire group running.

I know Edwards, Kuchinich and Richardson are not in the Senate - but none of them did anything major to influence people to act on this.

[Malikshah]

43. Edwards, Kucinich, and Richardson did not have the power to do anything

They cannot be held accountable. Senators running who caved, can and should be held accountable. History will show that this "chess game" mentality of inside-the-beltway politics was a disgusting display of callous disregard for our country's legacy.

There are others who can and should step up.

[karynnj]

49. What any of them could have done was to have used whatever

communication they had to demand people call their Senators. the only different a Senator could have really done was to have given speeches and the vote. They all voted for the filibuster. I do not recall the others doing anything, though Edwards may have said that Alito shouldn't be confirmed.

[John Q. Citizen]

55. A majority of the Senate Dems voted against cloture.

[karynnj]

67. exactly - what the op was saying is that they

should have been involved in pushing others to vote for cloture. Hillary made it clear "that there would be no filibuster - then voted for it". Obama spoke against it and Biden said he would vote for it only once - negating any possible use of his vote. If he was #41, the Republicans could theoretically turn around and immediately have a second vote.

My point was that bashing either Hillary or Obama makes no sense because there are only two people who did stand up on this and they aren't running.

[debbierlus]

Thank you.

Exactly, my point!!!

[debbierlus]

19. That is a HUGE test -

Do you pull out all the stops to stop a wrong being inflicted upon the people...or do you exercise a intellectual but empty disdain for those who do...Did you read the story...'dems need to win elections'? THEY DID WIN TWO ELECTIONS - 00 & 04 Presidential elections...The tripe that came out of this mouth.

You think that displays good character? I think it demonstrates self-serving pompousness that does nothing for the people. He could have been a leader in this fight, a very important fight for the make-up of our courts for decades to come.

This you give applause?

[sproutster]

74. ONE TEST? Jeeze -- It's only a flipping lifetime appt. to the system that can imprison us all n/t

[AX10]

3. I have other concerns about Obama, such as a lack of foreign...

policy experience. He could end up in the same boat Carter was in. We cannot afford that. Also, Obama is all into this "let's get along" B.S! We need a warrior to fight the right wing. They still have a lot of power.

[MadBadger]

8. Its strange because the people with the most experience are all in the second tier

Richardson, Dodd, and Biden.

[Colobo]

16. Yeah, and I bet those who question Obama's "experience"

won't vote for Biden, Dodd or Richardson, who have more "experience" than Clinton, Obama and Edwards together.

[MadBadger]

25. If I believed that Biden could win, Id vote for him. But since I dont, Ill vote for Obama

One of those guys would be great serving as a VP candidate or in a new admin.

[Captain_Nemo]

14. I agree with you 100% The lack of foreign policy is a bit unnerving. A Carter redux would be bad.

[Colobo]

22. Vote for Biden, Richardson or Dodd if experience is what you want

I bet you won't vote for them, though...

[AX10]

23. Still, I would vote for Obama over any Republican!

[Perky]

79. The last two presidents with "foriegn Policy experience were Ike and Nixon

GWB None
Clinton None
Bush CIA does not count
Reagan no
Carter no
Nixon as VP yes
Johnson... No
Kennedy-- No
Ike Yes'
Trumaan no
FDR No

[michaelwb]

100. Not quite the case...

You say Nixon had foreign policy experience because he was VP, but don't extend the same to Bush Senior, Johnson & Truman who were all VPs too.

In addition Bush senior was US Ambassador to the UN in the early 1970s, Chief of the U.S. Liaison Office in the People's Republic of China in the mid 1970s. Which even ignoring the VP thing, makes Bush Senior the last President with Foreign Policy experience.

[LSK]

30. Cheney and Rummy had LOTS of foreign policy experience

That is not always a good thing.

[goclark]

32. Obama is a warrior in my view... he sure is smart enough

to outsmart the dummy that we have in office right now.

Just my opinion and I respect yours.

[ORDagnabbit]

5. Kucinich, Gravel, Paul.....Gore.

or how bout we throw all of the congresscritters from both parties out and start again?

[Colobo]

6. I ask you again, who should we support then?

Who's got what it takes, according to you?

[cascadiance]

83. I think it is more healthy now to say that "the jury is still out!"

And do so until we know whether someone like Al Gore will be or won't be in the race. Gore is still my first choice at this point, should he run. I could be pragmatic and still vote for someone like Obama, but unless he comes out firmly and is straight with us on how he will support core grass roots Democratic issues, I can't get "behind" him now, even if I might vote for him later for lack of a better choice.

[HockeyMom]

7. A Catholic majority on the Court

is the worse thing that could have happened. Extremists of the extreme.

Flame me, if you wish. I spent 12 years in Catholic school and know what I am talking about.

[DURHAM D]

13. I couldn't agree more.

I have made comments here on the DU about this issue and am told that their religion has nothing to do with their world view. Yeah, and the fact that I have a uterus has nothing to do with my views.

[saltpoint]

9. Gee, thanks for the warning. Whew! That was a close one!

I was going to continue my life thinking that the people of Illinois had made a wise choice in electing a qualified man to represent them in the U.S. Senate.

Thank god you pulled me out of THAT fire!

[babylonsister]

24. ...

:spray: First real laugh today; thank you! :D

[saltpoint]

28. Hi, babylonsister. Thanks to the OP, I know not to trust anybody from

Illinois ever again.

Obama. And that Lincoln fella -- didn't he run for something from Illinois?

________

Hope you're doing well. We're making the turn into summer now.

[babylonsister]

42. All well here; the A/C went on yesterday sadly, but

the afternoons are unbearable. I've been weeding and planting before it gets too hot, and that's right around the corner.

[saltpoint]

48. ah, then you're doing it right. Gardening's good stuff.

[debbierlus]

45. Oh, give me a break.

Yeah. Like that was my point.

[saltpoint]

47. Well hell, debbierlus. You just dismissed the judgment of an entire state.

Obama won his Senate race against Keyes by near landslide numbers.

The percentage of victory corresponds to the level of support.

I trust the voters of Illinois in their assessment of Barack Obama over yours in your cheap-shot OP.

[WildEyedLiberal]

77. Dammit!!

I thought you loved me OC :cry:


:rofl: :evilgrin: :pals:

For the record I don't like what Obama said about the filibuster at all - maybe it would've succeeded if so many high profile Dems hadn't gone on the air and made fun of Kerry and Kennedy for standing up to Alito. But since no one of Kerry's caliber has announced yet, I guess I'll have to lower my standards a bit, although Edwards has impressed me of late.

[saltpoint]

78. WildEyedLiberal! Hi to ya, and a happy Monday evening.

Yep. All the people in Illinois are not to be trusted. They've sent us a FAILED leader. A man with no attributes.

Think of it.

And not to forget, don't be speaking praise for that Lincoln guy. He's not to be trusted either, although he was born in Kentucky, he represented Illinois. He has no attributes either. None.

And the people who elect these FAILED leaders are obviously subverting liberty as we know it. They showed up at te polls looking like ordinary citizens and pretended their votes were informed and conscionable.

That's just outrageous.

And I wouldn't have even KNOWN this if not for this thread.
_____________

If anyone who's registered to vote for 08 wants to know how good our Democrats are, they ought to listen to Mitt Romney for about 10 minutes. If they don't blow their brains out first, they'll definitely be voting Democratic.

I hope all's well your way, good person.

[rosesaylavee]

92. Obama may be green...

and I didn't like his Alito comment either. However, he does have an ability to seek the middle ground in any argument. He may well have been trying to do that that day he said what he did about Alito.

I don't know who I support yet - Gore has my vote if he runs. Obama and Edwards both have great ideas and would do a good job. I am very proud that Obama is representing Illinois so well. In fact, I'm proud of both my senators.

[saltpoint]

93. You should be proud of your senators. A lot of the rest of us love 'em, too.

[Captain_Nemo]

11. Pro-Choice Americans should close ranks around reproductive ranks and never give in.

If (I don't remember this happening but this article is interesting) he chose to back off because he didn't like the tactic than he is complicit in the outcome.

I see it like Alice Paul and suffrage. Even during the war Alice Paul said we had to stand firm and protest even if it meant looking bad for not being in support of the president - and she was right.

We eventually won the right to vote.

I would like to see this same unity among all pro-choice politicians.

[debbierlus]

27. It isn't just about abortion, it is about leadership

He displayed ZERO. The filibuster was instituted PRECISELY for that type of situation.

He refused to fight a horrendous nomination because he didn't like the 'tactic'. So, it is better to allow a dishonest, unethical, horrendous nominee on the court then to sully oneself with the 'tactic' of filibuster. A perfectly legal & LEGITIMATE option in the case of this nomination.

Well, I am glad he didn't sully himself with the tactic. Women who have to submit themselve to riskier health procedures in a crisis pregnancey can console themselves with that....

[Captain_Nemo]

51. I am with you on this one.

[Colobo]

20. debbierlus, who should we support?

[debbierlus]

29. Kucinich over Obama, any day of the week

Any day...

[Colobo]

34. And between the 3 top-tier candidates?

Which one has what it takes?

[debbierlus]

38. I could deal with Edwards, but he has been a disappointment

With his recent Iran rheoteric.

[Colobo]

41. Cool... thanks for clarifying.

[NYCGirl]

36. You mean the guy who was anti-choice a couple of years ago? NT

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. He also...voted for a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning

I'm just sayin'....

[zulchzulu]

61. He did?

Wow... not that I follow someone who will probably end up with less than 50 delegates by the time the 2008 convention rolls around...but...

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. YES, he did. Here:

and that was just 4 years ago.:(


Dennis Kucinich on Civil Rights
Click here for 18 full quotes on Civil Rights OR other candidates on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.

* Civil marriage is not necessarily between a man & a woman. (Feb 2004)
* Allow gays and lesbians to marry. (Nov 2003)
* Reparations for slavery should take form of social programs. (Nov 2003)
* Repeal the PATRIOT Act: stop being driven by fear. (Sep 2003)
* Must challenge rationale of USA PATRIOT Act. (Aug 2003)
* Same sex couples deserve equal domestic benefits. (Aug 2003)
* Affirmative action is necessary & right & must be preserved. (Aug 2003)
* Voted against the misnamed "Patriot Act". (Jun 2003)
* Prayer for America: Why put aside Constitutional justice? (Feb 2002)
* Focus on jobs instead of pitting people against each other. (Jul 1996)
* Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
* Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
* Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
* Voted YES on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
* Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
* Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
* Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
* Rated 64% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)



Dennis Kucinich on Abortion
Click here for 18 full quotes on Abortion OR other candidates on Abortion OR background on Abortion.

* Women's right-to-choose is essential to gender equality. (Nov 2006)
* Abortions should always be legal. (Jan 2004)
* Shifted to pro-choice when women's health became at risk. (Dec 2003)
* All men & women have right to make difficult moral decisions. (Aug 2003)
* Supreme Court nominees must agree to uphold Roe v. Wade. (Apr 2003)
* Journey in 2002 from pro-life to pro-choice. (Apr 2003)
* Women can't be free unless they have the right to choose. (Apr 2003)
* Prevention, education, & health care, to minimize abortions. (Apr 2003)
* Life begins at conception. (Jul 1996)
* Voted YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)
* Voted NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005)
* Voted NO on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
* Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
* Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
* Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
* Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
* Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)
* Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)


http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

[zulchzulu]

72. Wow...not that I'm shocked...but...

Thanks for the highlights. Yick...

[jefferson_dem]

82. dupe.

EDIT:: never mind. now i see this was posted up thread.

...

Journey in 2002 from pro-life to pro-choice. (Apr 2003)
Women can't be free unless they have the right to choose. (Apr 2003)
Prevention, education, & health care, to minimize abortions. (Apr 2003)
Life begins at conception. (Jul 1996)
Voted YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)
Voted NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005)
Voted NO on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

[stuartrida]

46. Kucinich was 100% pro-life up before he started running for President

Does that bother you at all? Probably not.

[zulchzulu]

52. I like the Eagles' song "Desperado"

Do they play that at Kucinich rallies?

Why make up stuff about Obama to prove your "point"? It's pretty pathetic and transparent.

[Captain_Nemo]

53. Why would you ask her who you should vote for? She's just saying be wary - he failed a test

of leadership.

[DURHAM D]

21. My view of Obama is that his instincts suck.

He is unable to see that the other side is playing smash mouth football - he just wants to make nice and play touch.

Frankly, he reminds me of Tom (smile at any price) Daschle.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

84. that exact strategy has him leading Hillary Clinton nationally

Do you think it wise to abandon a successful strategy?

[DURHAM D]

87. It is not his wussieness that has him leading. n/t

[Buttercup McToots]

31. I'm not voting for him...

I think he is media made...
And Alito...well, that really pissed me off...

[Captain_Nemo]

54. I would agree with media made although his liberal voting record is impressive

[LSK]

33. there is no perfect candidate, you have to make choices

They all have their flaws, its our job to determine whos flaws or benefits are greater. You also have to decide who has a legitimate chance.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. I Think That You Utterly Misread This

He voted AGAINST Alito.

He voted FOR filibuster.

He simply said that it was fait accompli, and that the best way to get good judges if for Dems to win elections. And that's the truth.

[Colobo]

37. Remember... the truth SUCKS!

[debbierlus]

40. I did not misread this...

Read my beginning post before the article.

[zulchzulu]

39. Perhaps you haven't figured out that Obama voted AGAINST ALITO!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Washington Contact: Robert Gibbs or Tommy Vietor, [phone]
Illinois Contact: Julian Green [phone]
Date: January 24, 2006

Obama to Vote No on the Nomination of Judge Alito to the Supreme Court

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today released the following statement on the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito Jr. to the United States Supreme Court:

"While I certainly believe that Judge Samuel Alito has the training and the qualifications necessary to serve as a Supreme Court Justice, after a careful review of his record, I simply cannot vote for his nomination.

"The Judicial Branch of our government is a place where any American citizen can stand equal before the eyes of the law. Yet, in examining Judge Alito's many decisions, I have seen extraordinarily consistent support for the powerful against the powerless, for the employer against the employee, for the President against the Congress and the Judiciary, and for an overreaching federal government against individual rights and liberties.

"By ruling this way so many times over a course of so many years, Judge Alito simply does not inspire confidence that he will serve as an independent voice on the U.S. Supreme Court.

"I do hope that if he is confirmed, he proves me wrong. I hope that he will uphold the best traditions of the Supreme Court as a bastion of equality and justice on behalf of every American citizen."

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060124-obama_to_vote_no_on_the_nomination_of_judge_alito_to_the_supreme_court/index.html

Without enough votes to sustain the filibuster, what's the point? Is it "magic wand time" again, ferchrissakes?

[debbierlus]

44. And, perhaps you did not read my entire post

In which I address this....

Without enough votes for the filibuster? If he should be President, he should have been LEADING the damned fight instead of giving empty political rheoteric about its ultimate failure. And, IT SHOULD BE NOTED, that during this period he made these statements, many were 'undecided'. We were in the MIDDLE of the battle to try and get our reps to do the right thing. But, instead of supporting our efforts to stop this nomination from becoming a reality, he conceded defeat before ever even TRYING.

Not Presidential material....not by a long shot.

[zulchzulu]

50. So you're one of those people who thinks votes come out of thin air?

The filibuster needed a dozen votes that weren't there...so perhaps you have a Magic Gizmo Vote Baking Oven that makes votes out of thin air... if you do, please make sure to patent this wonderful device!

Methinks you got caught with your pants down on this issue, my friend.

[Captain_Nemo]

57. But the votes weren't there for Pelosi and she managed to convince people

Perhaps the poster is saying he should have led th efight and stood up for repoductive rights for all Americans?

[zulchzulu]

58. Did you get the memo? Obama voted AGAINST Alito!

Perhaps some reading comprehension skills need to be addressed...

I'm still waiting for the invention that produces votes out of thin air to pass legislation or to vote for filibusters. If you have any such inventions, please let the World know.

Also, I would imagine that by Obama voting AGAINST Alito, he was standing up for reproductive rights. No?

[Captain_Nemo]

62. Yes, we know that. He did not support a filibuster. From Democrats.com from that time:

http://www.democrats.com/kerry-filibuster

Update 10:00 pm: Barak Obama working against us?

Update 6:50 pm: Kennedy supports filibuster with this statement.  Here's Kerry's statement.

Update 5:50 pm: AP reports "The Senate will vote Monday on cutting off debate. If Alito's supporters get 60 votes in the 100-member body, the confirmation vote will follow on Tuesday."

Update 4:23 pm: CNN confirms my report from 1 pm and says Ted Kennedy is supporting Kerry. The White House says they have 60 votes for cloture - but they also said Iraq had WMD's... and that Bush never met Jack. Go John Kerry!!!!!


And, fromthe same site: but the buzzflash link is gone

Submitted by barbs on January 26, 2006 - 8:31pm.

BuzzFlash Has Heard a Rumor that Senator Barack Obama Has Been Opposing a Filibuster of Alito Inside the Democratic Caucus

We hope this isn't true, but BuzzFlash has been told by a knowledgeable source that Senator Barack Obama is opposing a filibuster of Alito during the debate raging within the Democratic Senate Caucus. The implication is that he is against such a filibuster on "strategic grounds."

http://www.buzzflash.com/index.php?story=Story


http://www.buzzflash.com/index.php?story=Story

[zulchzulu]

69. BZZT!!! Wrong again!

Obama voted against the Cloture (as well as against Alito) ... I wonder if you even know what that means...

[Captain_Nemo]

56. Perhaps this is because Barack is also trying to please the anti-reproductive rights people?

And leading in this fight would have shed a bright spolight on his pro-choice beliefs. So he chose to stay low.....just a thought.

[zulchzulu]

59. Wow. So Obama voting AGAINST Alito was standing up for anti-reproductive rights people...

WTF?

:freak:

[Captain_Nemo]

63. "he is against such a filibuster on "strategic grounds."

It is for this reason that the poster suggested Barack is not ready to lead the nation.


BuzzFlash Has Heard a Rumor that Obama is Opposing
Submitted by barbs on January 26, 2006 - 8:31pm.


BuzzFlash Has Heard a Rumor that Senator Barack Obama Has Been Opposing a Filibuster of Alito Inside the Democratic Caucus

We hope this isn't true, but BuzzFlash has been told by a knowledgeable source that Senator Barack Obama is opposing a filibuster of Alito during the debate raging within the Democratic Senate Caucus. The implication is that he is against such a filibuster on "strategic grounds."

http://www.buzzflash.com/index.php?story=Story

[debbierlus]

64. The simple fact is he should have been leading the fight for a filibuster

Not decrying our efforts. DU was FURIOUS with him when this occurred. People were really betrayed. And, he was doing it in the MIDDLE of OUR fight to convince the Senate to do the right thing and stop this atrocious appointment. I realized what he was really about in that moment...and it wasn't about the people. The democrats had the obligation to use every possible means to stop an appointment of a radical fringe far right neo-con from obtaining that seat. Obama is far from the only one that was very disappointing on that nomination. Hiliary was a real peach as well. I called her office probably six times, the first few times her staff said that she didn't want to filibuster either. Heavens, no. Wouldn't want to be viewed as divisive and not 'bipartisan' (whatever the hell that means)...Just like Obama.

Sorry, but Obma isn't the real deal. The real deal fights like Kennedy, demands impeachment like Kucinich, & roots out scandals like Waxman & Conyers. Obma isn't among them, he is a very junior Senator who the country wants to be there golden boy. He has neither the central conviction or experience to provide the country what they want to see in him.

[Captain_Nemo]

65. Well said!

[zulchzulu]

71. Answer with a simple yes or no. Did Obama vote to stop the filibuster?

Answer the question.

[illinoisprogressive]

95. Kucinich is just plain strange.

[never cry wolf]

105. Obama and Biden Join the Filibster of Alito

Obama and Biden Join the Filibster of Alito
Posted by Pamela Leavey
January 29th, 2006 @ 11:50 am

Barack Obama and Joe Biden have joined the Filibuster Alito effort. Their enthusiasm level could use a kick in the pants, in my opinion, but let’s be grateful we have two more Democratic Senators to add to the list.

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1791

So Obama thinks the Dems need to alert the public as to a bad appointment and thinks simply stalling puts them in a bad light. He is correct, btw. He also thought the filibuster wouldn't work and he was correct in that as well, despite his vote AGAINST cloture. He voted AGAINST Alito as well. He was merely pointing out the fact, as did Biden, that at that point there was little the Dems could do about it, they simply didn't have the votes and in fact the filibuster was 13 votes short.


"We need to recognize, because Judge Alito will be confirmed, that, if we're going to oppose a nominee that we've got to persuade the American people that, in fact, their values are at stake," Obama said.

"There is an over-reliance on the part of Democrats for procedural maneuvers," he told ABC's This Week.
-------
"There's one way to guarantee that the judges who are appointed to the Supreme Court are judges that reflect our values. And that's to win elections," Obama said.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., said he, too, would support the filibuster attempt but agreed that it was not particularly wise.

"I think a filibuster make sense when you have a prospect of actually succeeding," Biden said on CNN's "Late Edition." "I will vote one time to say to continue the debate. but the truth of the matter" is that Alito will be confirmed, he said.

I don't know what your point is, he voted against cloture and against Alito, he only had one vote for each and used each correctly.

:shrug:

[zulchzulu]

68. Be WARY of flamebait and distortions about Obama to somehow get points...

The poster completely misrepresented Obama's views on Alito. This is pretty disgraceful. Obama voted AGAINST ALITO and FOR THE FILIBUSTER. He also wisely pointed out that the filibuster would not have enough votes to hold.

Here's the breakdown of the vote on confirming Alito:

58 FOR: Allard (R - CO), Allen (R - VA), Alexander (R - TN), Bennett (R - UT),Bond (R - MO), Brownback (R - KS), Bunning (R - KY), Burns (R - MT), Burr (R - NC), Byrd (D - WV), Crapo (R - ID), Chambliss (R - GA), Coburn (R - OK), Cochran (R - MS), Coleman (R - MN), Collins (R - ME), Conrad (D - ND), Cornyn (R - TX), Craig (R - ID), DeMint, (R - SC), DeWine (R - OH), Dole (R - NC), Domenici (R - NM), Ensign (R - NV), Enzi, (R - WY), Frist (R - TN), Graham (R - SC), Grassley (R - IA), Gregg (R - NH), Hagel (R - NE), Hatch (R - UT), Hutchison (R - TX), Inhofe (R - OK), Isakson (R - GA), Johnson (D - SD), Kyl (R - AZ), Lott (R - MS), Lugar (R - IN), Martinez (R - FL), McCain (R - AZ), McConnell (R - KY), Murkowski (R - AK), Nelson (D - NE), Roberts (R - KS), Santorum (R - PA), Sessions (R - AL), Shelby (R - AL), Smith (R - OR), Snowe (R - ME), Specter (R - PA), Stevens (R - AK), Sununu (R - NH), Talent (R - MO), Thomas (R - WY), Thune (R - SD), Vitter (R - LA), Voinovich (R - OH) and Warner (R - VA).

42 AGAINST: Akaka (D - HI), Baucus (D - MT), Bayh (D - IN),Bingaman (D - NM), Biden (D - DE), Boxer (D - CA), Cantwell (D - WA), Carper, (D - DE), Chafee, (R - RI) , Clinton (D - NY), Dayton (D - MN), Dodd (D - CT), Dorgan (D - ND), Durbin (D - IL), Feingold (D - WI), Feinstein (D - CA), Harkin, (D - IA), Inouye (D - HI), Jeffords (I - VT), Kennedy (D - MA), Kerry (D - MA), Kohl (D - WI), Landrieu, (D - LA), Lautenberg (D - NJ), Leahy (D - VT), Levin (D - MI), Lieberman (D - CT), Lincoln (D - AR), Menendez (D - NJ), Mikulski (D - MD), Murray (D - WA), Nelson (D - FL), Obama (D - IL), Pryor (D - AR), Reed (D - RI), Reid (D - NV), Rockefeller (D - WV), Salazar (D - CO), Sarbanes (D - MD), Schumer (D - NY) Stabenow (D - MI) and Wyden (D - OR).

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00002

As you can see, Obama voted AGAINST Alito.

In terms of the cloture vote, which would END the Alito filibuster, Obama voted FOR the filibuster:

Roll Call of the Cloture Vote

The Associated Press tallied the 72-25 vote:

On this vote, a "yes" vote was a vote to end the debate and a "no" vote was a vote to filibuster the nomination.

Voting "yes" were 19 Democrats and 53 Republicans.

Voting "no" were 24 Democrats and one independent.!

Democrats Yes

Akaka, Hawaii; Baucus, Mont.; Bingaman, N.M.; Byrd, W.Va.; Cantwell, Wash.; Carper, Del.; Conrad, N.D.; Dorgan, N.D.; Inouye, Hawaii; Johnson, S.D.; Kohl, Wis.; Landrieu, La.; Lieberman, Conn.; Lincoln, Ark.; Nelson, Fla.; Nelson, Neb.; Pryor, Ark.; Rockefeller, W.Va.; Salazar, Colo.

Democrats No

Bayh, Ind.; Biden, Del.; Boxer, Calif.; Clinton, N.Y.; Dayton, Minn.; Dodd, Conn.; Durbin, Ill.; Feingold, Wis.; Feinstein, Calif.; Kennedy, Mass.; Kerry, Mass.; Lautenberg, N.J.; Leahy, Vt.; Levin, Mich.; Menendez, N.J.; Mikulski, Md.; Murray, Wash.; Obama, Ill.; Reed, R.I.; Reid, Nev.; Sarbanes, Md.; Schumer, N.Y.; Stabenow, Mich.; Wyden, Ore.

Democrats Not Voting

Harkin, Iowa.

Republicans Yes

Alexander, Tenn.; Allard, Colo.; Allen, Va.; Bennett, Utah; Bond, Mo.; Brownback, Kan.; Bunning, Ky.; Burns, Mont.; Burr, N.C.; Chafee, R.I.; Chambliss, Ga.; Coburn, Okla.; Cochran, Miss.; Coleman, Minn.; Collins, Maine; Cornyn, Texas; Craig, Idaho; Crapo, Idaho; DeMint, S.C.; DeWine, Ohio; Dole, N.C.; Domenici, N.M.; Enzi, Wyo.; Frist, Tenn.; Graham, S.C.; Grassley, Iowa; Gregg, N.H.; Hatch, Utah; Hutchison, Texas; Inhofe, Okla.; Isakson, Ga.; Kyl, Ariz.; Lott, Miss.; Lugar, Ind.; Martinez, Fla.; McCain, Ariz.; McConnell, Ky.; Murkowski, Alaska; Roberts, Kan.; Santorum, Pa.; Sessions, Ala.; Shelby, Ala.; Smith, Ore.; Snowe, Maine; Specter, Pa.; Stevens, Alaska; Sununu, N.H.; Talent, Mo.; Thomas, Wyo.; Thune, S.D.; Vitter, La.; Voinovich, Ohio; Warner, Va.

Republicans No

None.

Republicans Not Voting

Ensign, Nev.; Hagel, Neb.

Others No

Jeffords, Vt.


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/campaignforthecourt/2006/01/roll_call_of_th.html

[Cameron27]

70. Great post, thanks!

:thumbsup:

[Exiled in America]

85. Excellent debunking.

[SaveElmer]

86. Well in DU land...

It is not enough to be on the correct side of an issue...you have to be on TV every day leading the fight, otherwise you might as well have just voted wrong...

At least as it applies to Hillary...we will see if a certain purveyor of this particular viewpoint shows up here to criticize Obama as well!

[REP]

98. And KooKoocinich Voted FOR the 'Partial Birth Abortion' Ban That Was Upheld

KooKoocinich has done more damage to reproductive rights during his pro-lie phase than Obama could ever imagine doing. Obama did vote for the filibuster and against Alito, but Kucinich voted for the ban that Alito et alia recently held as legal. Kucinich has a lot more to be ashamed of in this little event than Obama by a long chalk (that is, if being ashamed helps Dennis's polling this week).

[debbierlus]

103. I gave a detailed explanation of my personal experience with this & Obama

And, people just want to dismiss a very legitimate issue. If you read the original post, I put all this out at the beginning and explained very logically what my complaints were...This was acknowledged in the FIRST POST. 'kay?

I have written extensively about my reasons for opposing him throughout this thread. Read my posts. If you think the way he behaved during the run-up to the vote was appropriate, I very much beg to differ. And, when DURING the time he was doing this & not working with us to stop the nomination, but ACTIVELY against us, DU was FURIOUS. It was such a obviously political calculation on his part, it was infuriating. And, man, did it work. You are arguing the merits of leadership on a man who displayed NONE during a most critical moment. He decried our efforts, played a pompous role in denouncing our fight, reports were from insiders he was trying to stop the filibuster (links throughout this thread), & covered his ass by a meaningless vote after the damage he inflicted was done. And, I would bet love or money, it was about HIM & how he would be perceived in his run for President - if he passed the mythical 'bipartisan' test. That is so far away from what I believe is needed in a candidate, it is at opposite poles of the earth. These are the types of incidents that display what a candidate is really about, the details that are missed by those who aren't actively following & participating on a daily basis.

He isn't the real deal. He will be a DNC corporate puppet, just like Hiliary. You are welcome to him.

[zulchzulu]

104. You simply can't admit you made a mistake...

Good luck with your preferred candidate...

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

73. ya know what, I have reservations about a lot of the candidates, but

even though I am not shy about expressing those reservations, this thread seems a bit flamebaity. :shrug:

[Captain_Nemo]

76. I think the poster had a good point and its worth it to really look into these things.

[Lerkfish]

80. ummm....I dunno, I see a bizarre uptick in obama bashing just today

seems almost coordinated.

Obama is not my candidate, but its obvious to me. :shrug:

[Captain_Nemo]

89. I noticed it too. But I thought it was post debate stuff. I noticed a big lack of Barack posts

after the debate. He's not my choice but I don't hate him.

[zulchzulu]

90. Propogating lies about a candidate is bullshit to me...

Perhaps the truth is too hard for some to grasp.

[Captain_Nemo]

96. Tsk Tsk.

[Captain_Nemo]

97. I know how you feel - it's been hard hearing people call Senator Clinton a whore and war monger.

[Generator]

81. I've been wary of him for awhile

"He isn't a true leader." Spot on. HOWEVER, it would be so wonderful to have him as president. He has some wonderful qualities. It would be a tremendous step forward for this country. Compared to what we've had..you know. BUT I think for him to ever achieve that, due to racism in this country he would have to sell his soul out MORE than the Clinton's have and that was enough already for me. I don't think he even knows how dirty it really is. He thinks it's 1995. The good old days! Back before the fascists took over. I don't think he fully understands what he's up against. I think Dean, (I know-not running) Gore (no he's not running either) Edwards and possibly Clark really do. Obama thinks you can play nice and win. OH HA!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

88. Thank You For Your Concern.

I think he's a terrific leader though, personally.

[omega minimo]

91. More evidence that Barack is not "The Magic Negro"

Wow-- you're being royally trounced here, aren't ya?

I agree with your premise-- it's important to stand up AT THE TIME that it's important. (Challenging objectionable SCOTUS appointments and stolen elections, for example....) Those who have done so consistently are the Congressional Black Caucus and Russ Feingold. He's the kind of politician I would vote for. He says what needs to be said WHEN it needs to be said.

"There's one way to guarantee that the judges who are appointed to the Supreme Court are judges that reflect our values. And that's to win elections," Obama said.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., said he, too, would support the filibuster attempt but agreed that it was not particularly wise.

"I think a filibuster make sense when you have a prospect of actually succeeding," Biden said on CNN's "Late Edition." "I will vote one time to say to continue the debate. but the truth of the matter" is that Alito will be confirmed, he said.



This is the same bullshit logic of counting votes ONLY and Doing The Right Thing Be Damned that has prevented the impeachment of Bushco.

And that put King George appointees on the SC because it was politically expedient -- as Obama points out. He's got all the time in the world to focus on "winning elections" and doesn't care about all the damage done to the Constitution and the country in the meantime.

They rolled over for the SCOTUS and Unitary Executive votes. Thanks for reminding us. Hey -- just think! After the next stolen election, that is the court that will appoint Jeb president!!

K&R.

[zulchzulu]

99. No one else has shown the Magic Vote Baking Oven Invention yet... do you have it?

I'm sure someone here has the invention that makes votes out of thin air...do you?

After all, Obama correctly assumed that there weren't enough votes to sustain the Alito filibuster in the last Congress...yunno, the one before we gained seats...that one, yeah!

So, perhaps since there weren't enough votes in the Senate, maybe there's something you can cobble together from Radio Shack that makes votes out of thin air. Like magic!!! Woo hoo!

Please...we need the invention to carry on dialogue like this with some Civics 101-Challenged folks here on DU...

[omega minimo]

101. Unless you can produce the Mystery Date Congress Edition Time Machine out of thin air

and show us how ya'll go into the future and come back and tell us what happens BEFORE IT DOES....................................... it is ya'll who are "Civics 101-Challenged" and not quite clear on the Reality concept either.


:eyes:



Magic Eight Ball says "Maybe"

[zulchzulu]

102. Ever count stuff with your fingers?

If you can count what Senators say they absolutely will vote for something, it's probably best to assume that they will pretty much stick to that...I'm going to say it...brace yourself...look away if you can't handle it...it's a word that some aren't familiar with and tend to sway away from in political dialogue...ready...reality...

[omega minimo]

106. Ever decide something isn't worth doing so you give up before you even TRY?!!!!111

Ah sure ya do at home, when ya really don't want ot clean out the garage and find something else to do with your Saturday....... but do you do that at work? These people work for us. They don't get paid to play word games based on how it will sound when they try to cover their asses later; they don't get paid so they can sell out the American people and focus on "winning elections"-- but that's what it's been reduced to :puke:

While America snored, Congress barely raised a whimper about appointing 2 SCOTUS members-for-life that support the Unitary Executive, aka King George. They couldn't be bothered to enter into the record the very REAL objections of Anyone Who Was Paying Attention.

If you want to buy into the bullshit that "strategery" and counting with your thumbs is all that matters, you're being suckered. Not facing REALITY.

And now you're trying to throw at me with a big buildup the word that I used in my post?

[zulchzulu]

107. I have a problem with people that think votes somehow just appear out of nowhere

If you don't have enough votes to pass legislation or stop a filibuster, what's the solution? Make up the idea that votes are there? Act like there isn't a democratic format in Congress where votes pass bills...not whining and protest signs?

In case you missed it, Obama voted AGAINST Alito and FOR the filibuster. He also expressed that there weren't enough votes for stop the Cloture vote to end the filibuster. Was he wrong? NO! There weren't enough votes, as the roll call actually recorded.

Should Obama have pulled out a magic wand and produced votes out of nowhere and sustain the filibuster. Um... in the third parallel reverse universe galaxy from Plant Zorknick, perhaps... but in Washington, DC at the time (remember that Frist was in charge), there were these four magic words to stare at. The. Votes. Weren't. There.

[omega minimo]

109. I have a problem with people who think they can predict the future as if it's written in stone

They all rolled over for Alito AND Roberts. The minimal efforts made to object those appointments were CYA window-dressing. Minimal efforts nowhere NEAR up to the challenge presented by those devastating nominations.

:thumbsdown:



Here's to King George :toast:

[zulchzulu]

111. How many Democrats were in the last Congress? Do you know?

I bet you don't. The numbers weren't there.

Have you invented that Magic Votes Out Of Thin Air Machine yet?

[omega minimo]

112. Magic Eight Ball says

Strategery kills

[illinoisprogressive]

94. It's fine if you don't support him but, no reason to rant nasties about him.

If you want to do the flame wars go elsewhere. I try to be supportive of people who support other candidates. It's their right. I try not to post flame rants. I will post things I think are either interesting or for the others supporters to be aware. Or for discussion. But, not to tear another candidate down.
It's rude and nasty.
And, Obama may not have seen the value in the filibustering like it would be a waste of time and better used another time. But, he voted against the man.
Who the hell cares if he chose not to filibuster.
And by the way,

OBAMA 08!!!!! OBAMA 08!!!!!!! OBAMA 08!!!!!!!! OBAMA 08!!!!!!

[Pushed To The Left]

108. I disagreed with him on the filibuster, but he is no fan of Alito!

I'm confident that, as President, Obama will not appoint any right wing justices. In fact, I don't think any of our candidates will appoint right wing justices, which is why Democrats MUST WIN in 2008!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

110. He made me mad with his comments about baby boomers.

And he's one of the boomers. Said all the political fights now were old grudges dating back to Vietnam era.

Guess we're all just supposed to plotz and die instantly, huh?