When Kucinich promised to push for a floor vote on single payer, did you believe him?

[ProSense]

When he decided against it because it didn't have the votes, was that because he previously lied?

Here are the facts: There has been no debate in Congress over HR676. There has not been a single mark-up of the bill. Single payer was "taken off the table" for the entire year by the White House and by congressional leaders. There has been no reasonable period of time to gather support in the Congress for single payer. Many members accepted a "robust public option" as the alternative to single payer and now that has disappeared. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has scored the bill scheduled for a vote tomorrow in a manner which is at odds with many credible assumptions, meaning that it will appear to cost way too much even though we know that true single payer saves money since one of every three dollars in the health care system goes to administrative costs caused by the insurance companies. Is this really the climate in which we want a test vote?

While state single payer movements are already strong, the national single payer movement is still growing. Many progressives in Congress, ourselves included, feel that calling for a vote tomorrow for single payer would be tantamount to driving the movement over a cliff. The thrill of the vote would disappear quickly when the result would be characterized not as a new beginning for single payer but as an end. Such a result would be seen as proof that Congress need not pay attention to efforts to restore in Conference Committee the right of states to pursue single payer without fear of legal attacks by insurance companies.

[AllentownJake]

1. DENNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[laughingliberal]

5. Damn it, Jake! Coffee all over the monitor and my little dog!

Fucking hilarious!

[ProSense]

8. .

HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AllentownJake]

10. Pro

You should probably be focusing on the yes vote who went to no from Illinois who is pissed off about Illegal Alien coverage and is giving you the finger and not the vote you aren't getting.

Carry on with your Dennis bashing bullshit.

[ProSense]

12. Why is it that when some people have been

pwned, they respond with "Pro"?

[AllentownJake]

15. I don't think I was pwned

Captain Kirk from Star Trek II is much more funny and relevant to your constant focus on one congressman from Ohio.

Might want to do a post on the guy from the Illinois delegation that is waffling, maybe get a call or two from your crew...

Giving you friendly advice if you actually care about the bill.

[t0dd]

Congressman Gutierrez is exactly right.

Is there something wrong with his opposition?

The immigration provision in the Senate bill will BAN undocumented immigrants from purchasing health insurance with THEIR OWN money; so, they'll be forced to rely on emergency room care. Don't you think that's unnecessarily harsh, and it'd be a little more humane to actually provide them coverage if they pay for it? They're still human beings that will need medical care.

[AllentownJake]

Didn't say I disagree with the congressman

Just said, an actual yes vote went to no from Illinois of all places...I think I'd be more concerned about that than the BOG's favorite whipping boy if I was actually lobbying for the bill and not stirring up trouble on a message board.

[t0dd]

26. gotcha, sorry.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of DUers that consider illegal immigrants to be lesser human beings and nothing more than petty criminals. I've stayed in Mexico, so I know the amount of misery there that compels families to seek better lives in our own country. Immediately after the Joe Wilson incident, the tougher provisions were added to the Senate bill, and I was surprised by the lack of outrage over it.

But I totally support all of your posts. Sorry if it seemed like I was implying you were against his views. :hi:

[AllentownJake]

27. I'm of two minds

I understand why people come here, but there needs to be a legal process and they need to be paid a fair wage.

However, preventing someone from spending their own money (not subsidies) seems a little crazy.

[laughingliberal]

51. That would make sense. I mean they passed their bill without DK's vote the 1st time why aren't they

more concerned with the defectors?

[AllentownJake]

52. If they fail it is better for them to trash liberals than blue dogs. nt.

[neverforget]

44. Now that is funny!

:rofl:

[DJ13]

2. ......

[LostInAnomie]

3. Big shock! Kucinich does some grandstanding!

I'll never understand why people take him seriously.

[apocalypsehow]

4. I continue to be appalled by those who think "nothing" is better than a good first step. And who

do not grasp that politics in a democracy is the art of the possible - as the saying goes - and that standing still is the worst of all options. Kucinich is on the side of the latter, right along with the Republicans. That doesn't sound very progressive to me.

Kick, Rec.

[EFerrari]

6. If Dennis garners this kind of silliness, he must be doing something very right.

Thanks for the confirmation.

:)

[G_j]

9. +1000

[bigwillq]

18. ....

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

7. Disingenuous dennis?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/022846.php#more

[EFerrari]

14. Congratulations for bashing a Democrat that actual lives the platform.

[ProSense]

19. Voting for a Constitutional amendment to ban flag burning and

against SCHIP and the energy bill?

[EFerrari]

20. Most of DU knows what those votes were about

Is it possible you are just too ill imformed to know what those votes were about or is it that you are cherrypickng once again?

:rofl:

[ProSense]

22. What was the reason for supporting a Constitutional ban on flag burning?

Enlighten me.

[EFerrari]

23. Are you highjacking your own thread?

Yes, you are.

Flag burning? Really?

Is that an argument you have in your pocket or is it just bunch of bs?

[ProSense]

24. I didn't think you could. n/t

[EFerrari]

25. Which turns out to be a non sequitur.

[laughingliberal]

53. We're going to be busy

Here's the list of yes votes in 2003 when Dennis voted for that. Wonder how many of these 85 other Democrats who voted yes are still there and what they have to say about their vote? Are any of them opposing health care reform?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll431.xml


Then we need to find out if any of these 77 Democrats who voted for the amendment in 2005 are still around. Oh, look, Denneis voted against it that year. Are any of those 77 still in Congress? And, if so, what's their stand on health care?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll296.xml#Y

[cali]

29. oh do explain a vote for a constitutional amendment banning flag burning

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear it.

And gotta say I love your hypocrisy, beth. it's so cute. you lectured the OP sanctimoniously about personal attacks and hear you are, making personal attacks. You do this constantly. Cognitive dissonance is awfully interesting, beth.

[tabasco]

30. I'd like to know about that flag burning vote, too.

It's a direct assault on free speech.

But I'll await your explanation for the cowardly vote by Kucinich.

[NJmaverick]

11. Not surprising as this sort of thing has become a pattern for him

[Cha]

16. Yeah, what do his

supporters care?

[Edweird]

13. Heh. Zero.

[Bruce Boyle]

17. From the left: What is being offered by the Democrats is NOT “REFORM.”

COMMENT

Private Health insurance is NOT the solution. It is the problem.

40 Million Uninsured Americans need a Universal Single Payer Insurance and Health Care Plan --an American, yes, and social insurance program.

What is being offered by the Democrats is NOT “REFORM.” Instead, they are drumming up more costumers for the private Insurance corporations and for a system that has already failed.

Let’s not be one-sided: The Democrats in Congress and the White House have been a grand success when it comes to funneling taxpayer money into the banks, lining the pockets of corrupt bankers, fattening the military machine for senseless and perpetual wars, and providing larges for multiple rounds of “Bankster Bonuses.” All of this while millions of families are facing eviction from their homes and while these bankers grab their bonus and go on exotic vacations. These bonuses have been extracted from our nation’s public revenue and provided as a gift by corrupt politicians, by elected “mis-representatives,” by members in Congress, by folks in the White House and in the Courts – by “political leaders” who are paid-off (bribed) by insurance and banking lobbyist, by a system bagged by weapons-makers and licensed drug-pushers.

But, so far, during this current Great Depression, government money (our money) has NOT been returned. Obama’s Policy --like Bush before him-- is NOT based on sharing, money is NOT given directly to America's working people: Public Revenue has NOT made its appearance on Main Street; it is NOT handed out to impoverished Americans; it is not given to people facing eviction or hospitalization if they happen to be uninsured or have lost their job. All the TARP and all the stimulus Bailout funds have been squandered, they have been given or are being given -as a no-strings attached - GIFT to America's wealthiest individuals and to the richest corporate powers and to the largest monopoly entities.

The current policies will leave future generations of American with ever growing and unregulated premiums, with expanding and intensified economic inequality, and with generations of future debt and illness. And as our taxpayer money is funneled through Congress and through the Obama lobby, it will be wasted on their lame “Health Care” charade. We can all see what is coming our way. In the end, it will only help China, Saudi Arabia, Japan, and Israel who purchase our treasury notes and control the US currency through the Federal Reserve (which is neither “Federal” nor a “Reserve”). And , dear reader, you will be expected to eat the nuclear waste from the new Nuclear Power plants that Obama plans to give to the state of Georgia ( paid for, again, by the American taxpayers rather than covered with loans from private banks and investors.) All of this spending amounts to waste on top of waste with radioactive results. The Congress and the White House, the Democrats and Republicans, are playing Americans in their belief that we are a nation of suckers. The economic policies of the Federal Government and monopoly private sector are immoral, inhuman, and disgusting.

Dennis, keep fighting for real health care and real insurance reform. Don't give up, don't give in to the schemes of those who profiteer off sickness, don't give in to doomed “non-solutions” and false choices currently before the Congress. Don't be one of those compromised, lame, weak Democrats or Republicans that work day and night for the exclusive benefit the Plunder Elite or that seek to strengthen the plutocracy while destroying this country. Go Dennis!

Bruce Boyle

[Bryn]

37. Welcome to DU

Your post :thumbsup:

Go Dennis Go!

[havocmom]

41. Welcome to DU

REALLY looking forward to reading more from you.

Ring of truth and honesty.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. A couple of dozen House Democrats are saying no

but I thought it was just Dennnissssss, due to the never ending work of our very own Mr Wilson! All manner of them, for all sorts of lousy reasons. Yet the one who is doing so for the right reasons gets attacked by the Mandates Are A Must crowd. Of course, that shows that it is not the vote that they are attacking, but the voter. And the message that we can do better than accept mediocre patching of the failed status quo. Or at least some of us could. We are not all craven and without imagination. There is value in a message that says we can strive. No matter how much you hate it, that message has deep importance to many who hear it. This is why 'yes, we can' has been such a successful slogan, more than once in history, and why no one runs on 'we're doing our best'.
Hope is a message with value. Don't you agree?

[AllentownJake]

31. You know that went over their heads nt.

[tekisui]

32. One talking point at a time, Jake.

If it doesn't fit with the explicit talking point sent, they cannot process or refute it.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

33. Artur Davis is making a special trip to D.C. just to vote against this bill,

but for some reason we haven't seen hundreds of spittle-flecked rants denouncing him.

[AllentownJake]

35. Well we all know what a controversial show the Drew Carey show was

Poor Cleavland has been dealing with the aftermath of other people not thinking it rocks for years.

[ProSense]

36. Kucinich is no different from Stupak and the blue dogs?

On this vote, I agree.

[AllentownJake]

38. What # post on Dennis is this of yours today

Obsess much?

Honestly, I make about a quarter of the post about Geithner and Summers than you do Dennis.

[ProSense]

39. Count your

obsessive responses.

[AllentownJake]

40. These are the most entertaining threads

and it is cold and rainy out today.

[havocmom]

42. We can surmiss Dennis headed up the talking point memo this morning

[AllentownJake]

43. They should be having a busy day.

I think they are about 4-5 votes shy right now.

Dennis is the last one they wish to negotiate with.

[freddie mertz]

47. This is the usual tactic of distraction.

LOOK AT THAT GUYOVER THERE!!!

While they pick your pocket and hand your money to their Health Insurance Co. donors.

PROSENSE!!!!!!!!!

[havocmom]

49. The treatment Dennis is getting is the threat they are using on others

Dollars to donuts it is.

[Number23]

45. How very interesting. Thanks for posting this, Prosense.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

50. Wow, sorry to make you cry. n/t

[madrchsod]

48. cool...... another dennis post!

ouch! that`s got to hurt!

[ProSense]

54. Anyone going to answer the question?

How is this different from President Obama pushing a public option and being willing to go forward without it because the Senate can't produce it?

[Oregone]

55. Ill give it a shot

No. Any man who takes any politician at their word is a fool. Anyone who goes further and tries to spin the truth and carry water for these sorry souls is just as guilty as they are.

They are all a bunch of lying rats, in one way or another, at one time or another. Man is entirely too fucked up in his genetic code to be altruistic in any act, including politics, so there is always an alterior motive and alterior story (despite language, charisma, compassion and empathy the put forward in a public display).

Do not play the fool and do not aid them in their crimes.

"Conviction is a great enemy to truth than lies" - Nietzsche

(Hope my answered sufficed for your lofty standards)