"Capitalism is a crime. And you can't regulate a crime. It must be replaced with Democracy"

[NRaleighLiberal]

We finally saw Capitalism: A Love Story. All I can say is that we found it to be incredibly sad, and incredibly profound. It is a punch to the gut, a wake up call to all of us who have more than those of us who have less, through no fault of any of our doing.

How do we as a country possibly move forward? The problems are so insidious, and go so far beyond political party - to the essence of hubris and greed.

Aside from the line I used in my OP header, the other one that resonated - "they will use fear whenever they want to have their own way".

How true it is.

[Oregone]

1. Thats all nonsense

A lot of that movie was too. Im not even sure he defined capitalism, but tried to by its manifestation in America

Look, I think capitalism is a shit system, but "crimes" aren't exactly codified by law if you know what I mean. And "Democracy" isn't an economic system

[paulsby]

2. capitalism sucks. it just sucks less than every other economic

system known to man

[Oregone]

6. Funny cliche'd saying but probably not a bit true

:)

Mixed market systems that blend socialism and capitalism seemed to have empirically produced positive results, time and again.

But if people insist upon private ownership of the means of production, then Id venture to *guess* that an entire economy of worker-owned enterprises would trump pure capitalism in the end. But thats guesswork because the owners of industry will never let that come to pass; they forever want the working class deprived of the ability to profit from their labor.

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. That I agree with. The answer isn't Capitalism or Socialism - but a creative (not yet existent)

blend. When it will have space to be created is another matter, as you also stated.

[Grand Taurean]

14. It's better than North Korea.

[paulsby]

15. let's not

what system is better?

[Grand Taurean]

16. What I am saying is that

unregulated markets do not work. Without basic rules, things will most certainly run foul.
My position is that properly regulated markets are needed and the government must provide basic services.

[paulsby]

18. who is advocating for unregulated markets?

not me.

regulated markets and capitalism are consistent

[Grand Taurean]

22. I was not arguing that you are against regulation.

There are some around here who oppose regulation, most likely because they have a stake in the current system.

[paulsby]

23. i fwiw h ave a stake in the current system

most people do, whether through 401k, IRA, or their employer being invested, etc.

i am a futures trader.

regulation? sure

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. Sorry, I disagree with you on that one. Aside from taking his messages literally,

the behavior of our country for the most part is an embarrassment - especially considering our potential for doing actual good for so many people here in deep trouble.

[Oregone]

9. As long as you want to admit he is talking figuratively

Because a legal economic system is not against the law, and a form of government is not a structure to be used for determining the ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods.

Thats aside...clearly it could be called a 'scourge to humanity', or a 'crime against humanity' (a bit of hyperbole too...maybe).

The structure obviously dis-proportionally allocates wealth generated from production to uninvolved owners, who over generations, can pass down power and capital that may greatly influence the government and bring a whole load of problems. Its not a pretty thing. And it also isn't something that you can "regulate" away; workers are still never allowed to profit from their labor. But using this language Moore did sort of shifts the focus from the actual structural problems with the economic system to the problems created by a few greedy assholes. Naturally, people will just think that if you box in the assholes, all will be wonderful again. Thats not the case. The own the people who are supposed to be doing the regulating

[NRaleighLiberal]

10. Yes, agreed.

I still think that for the masses in this country that sleep walk through life or vote against their best interests (then again, can anyone vote in their best interests these days?), watching this movie would be a good thing.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[The Northerner]

4. I think corporatism has ruined capitalism, which is fine if regulated well

[Bullet1987]

7. I don't think Capitalism is a crime at its roots

It's a system that requires rules and regulations. Just like any other system that you don't want to become dysfunctional and exploitable. American-style capitalism has become exactly that. The absense of regulations has open the door to corruption. And when the wolves are given the keys to the chicken pen...(meaning when the banks and corporations are allowed to "write" laws through thousands of highly-paid lobbyists), what we would call crimes being legalized can definitely happen.

[rocktivity]

11. Capitalism has never been problem. Unchecked capitalism has been the problem.

And now that there is such a thing a corporate personhood, it's going to get worse before it gets worse.

:(
rocktivity

[The Northerner]

12. [phone]

[defendandprotect]

13. Capitalism has repeatedly failed -- and been unregulated enough to cause a Great Depression...

and heaven knows, this may actually also be a Depression!!!

But this one we paid for up front -- and if we don't reregulate capitalism

immediately -- Glass Steagall -- we may be in for a rear-ending with new bailouts!!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

We need to move to democratic socialism . . .

[Oregone]

17. Capitalism deprives workers of their right to profit from their very labor

Its puts capital ahead of labor, which ultimately creates a disincentive against hard work and quality by the laborers, who are turned into nothing but a statistical cost of production. Its a true scourge to the workers.

On a larger scale, its really most fundementally a system designed to allocate wealth produced by labor into the hands of the few. This creates disparity and reinforces classes. Generation after generation of this, you pretty much get a loose caste system (and yes, the US ranks in the bottom of industrialized nations now for upward mobility). And with an entrenched investor/owner class, you have a disparity of not only wealth, but power. And that such power leads to "unchecked" corporatists capitalism.

You can't control it. It is wrong at its core, and the longer it progresses, the more wrong it becomes

[misanthrope]

24. In Moore's film, there were examples of worker-owned businesses...

...that seemed to work well. So apparently there are versions that are better than others.

[classysassy]

19. Capitalism has always been a tool

to sup press the workers.

[ConsAreLiars]

20. True, it is a system designed to impoverish the people who produce by transferring the value

they create into the hands who have legal authority to take it from them.

Not a 'crime' under the laws they create, but a crime, and worse. one which anyone with a bit of humanity that has not been extinguished by the incessant propaganda would recognize.

(edit typo and grammar)

[troubledamerican]

21. FDR rescued capitalism. Moore claims to advocate for FDR in his film, but

FDR's regulations worked fine until they were gutted by the Right-Wing & Gramm-Leach-Bliley (signed by Clinton).

[warm regards]

25. Except that capitalism is the only economic system that is compatible with freedom.