Animal groups: Could ruling lead to hunters shooting cats?

[The Straight Story]

Animal groups: Could ruling lead to hunters shooting cats?


The cat: Common, popular house pet or exotic, dangerous animal?

A number of animal activists have contacted state officials in an effort to head off a potential reclassification of feral cats, which could end the growing number of programs that trap, neuter and return them back into neighborhoods or the wild, and allow them to be hunted.

The state Fish and Game Council has condemned the idea of leaving cats in the wild and now another committee that reports to the state Department of Environmental Protection is studying the issue of TNR programs.

"Nothing has happened or been proposed so far,'' said Michelle Lerner, who works with the Animal Protection League of New Jersey and helped start a TNR program in Mount Olive last summer. "We are trying to work with state agencies to make sure this ridiculous proposal does not see the light of day.''

In a letter sent earlier this month to DEP officials, the APL and seven other groups, including the Humane Society of the United States and the New Jersey Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, protested any effort to reclassify cats.

Such a reclassification could bring an end to TNR programs like those in Morristown, Mount Olive, Netcong, Boonton and Randolph, and could allow hunters to shoot cats.

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100313/COMMUNITIES/303130002/1005/NEWS01/Animal-groups--Could-ruling-lead-to-hunters-shooting-cats

[XemaSab]

1. Inshallah

Maybe if fluffy is a game species, my neighbors will start keeping their 10 cats inside.

[The Straight Story]

2. Just get yourself a dog and let it run loose. Cats will be gone

:)

[XemaSab]

3. I have three dogs

but they can't get the feral cats we have in all four directions.

They sure try, though. :P

[DesertFlower]

13. really. my neighbor came over and

her dog pushed past her. my cat jumped on him. that dog ran out as fast as he ran in. he doesn't even look inside my house anymore. lol

[Edweird]

4. Oh good grief.

[jody]

5. Feral cats are major predators on birds. They are an introduced species of no value to natural

ecology.

[Guilded Lilly]

8. birds have wings.

Mother Nature works things out that way.

Cats and dogs started out feral. They became domesticated over generations.
Mankind has always manipulated, hunted, killed, declassified, classified, regulated, and eaten animals and birds to their own needs.

Methinks natural ecology has a helluva lot more to do with the order of any animals than man ever did.

[roseBudd]

28. The wings are a huge advantage, as is the climbing leaping of the squirrel

And the garter snake plays dead so the cat loses interest

It is the mouse that has little recourse with the cat

[Cetacea]

40. Song bird population has dropped something like eighty percent

Mostly due to loss of habitat. Where I live the birds are being wiped out by falcons. There are less and less trees for them to hid in.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. Yeah, but it's easier to blame cats than subdivisions and commercial development.

Thank you for bringing this up.

With regard to feral colonies, I think it's a matter of we broke it, we fix it. Cats aren't native to our hemisphere and a small number of them probably wouldn't wreak havoc, but too many nitwits "released" cats to the wild to fend for themselves and we now have huge numbers of feral cats in this country. TNR is at least giving the cats a chance to live out their lifetimes without expanding the colonies, something I think we owe them if we can't habituate them to human households like most domesticated cats.

Housed cats do take out birds too, and that's an issue worth discussing. I don't think most birders would care if house cats were killing starlings and other non-native birds, but cats aren't that selective.

[roseBudd]

70. The majority of cats are just not Kobe Bryant material, they run, they leap but no score

[Guilded Lilly]

80. laughing...

ah, but the spirit is always there!
(grin)

[blublu]

72. And I'm sure BB guns haven't helped the birds survival much!!

[undergroundpanther]

105. Ever walk near a cellphone tower?

Or broadcasting towers? There are plenty of dead birds there.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-2486333/Suit-says-cell-towers-kill.html

[Chulanowa]

49. Also, global warming is fake! Mankind can't affect nature!

:sarcasm:

Any more brainless non-science you want to come up with?

[XemaSab]

92. Except for all the extinct, flightless birds

and baby birds who are too young to fly.

[malakai2]

96. Cats have four legs

Human hunters, two. Nature is giving cats more legs with which to run. Let's see how it turns out, seeing you're such a fan of watching feral cats play hell with native bird populations.

[Guilded Lilly]

101. OK, let's ...

"Cats have four legs. Human hunters, two. Nature is giving cats more legs with which to run. Let's see how it turns out, seeing you're such a fan of watching feral cats play hell with native bird populations."

In spite of the off the map and totally uneducated assumption you make about my personal animal "fandom"...let's continue in that same "quantum leap" vein and ASSUME you just hate cats, prefer birds, and want to kill cats. OK.

Since you are discussing what NATURE gives cats...let's watch two legged *hunters* use only those nature-given limbs to chase four legged cats in order to kill them because cats can kill birds, one of their natural prey.(Human hunter is sans guns, knives, arrows, projectile firing weapons, you know, because nature didn't GIVE those to two legged mammals. Just two legs and two arms.)
See Dick run.
See Dick fail.
See cat get away.
See bird fly free.

All natural, of course.
Enough.

[DainBramaged]

11. Where I live, birds have NO problem avoiding the feral cats

and they fill my feeders daily.

OH and PS I live in one of the towns mentioned in the article, and where I live we had a hugely successful TNR program, with most of the cats actually being adopted. Many who now live here come to my door to eat once a day.....

[DesertFlower]

14. if people would spay and neuter

their animals we wouldn't have feral cats.

[DainBramaged]

16. And people who think hunting cats is OK are of no special value to humanity

[CountAllVotes]

19. anyone that hunts a cat

is dead meat in my book.

They are cursed for life.

Don't you DARE hurt my kitties! :)

:kick:

[safeinOhio]

64. I love my cat enough

to keep her inside and safe. Wild animals, outside and wild. Pets, inside and not so wild, or at least in pens.

[CountAllVotes]

77. my cats are kept indoors

I have a large fenced yard in the back and they get to go out there (weather permitting) every day for a couple of hours. They don't do much of anything except play hide and seek with one another.

I buy food for them (a 4 month supply) from a source I found that makes very good cat dry cat food. They are thriving on it. The cost to feed all three of them is $120.00 for 4 months. They never get sick nor do they have fleas or any other health problems.

I have three litter boxes in the garage and they can access it 24 hrs. a day as needed.

None of them are hunters, well one of them was a hunter when she was younger but now at the age of 16+ years that is no longer happening with her (getting to old for that I suppose).

They are doing very well and I agree, keep your kitties indoors if you can manage to do so. It is great if you have a fenced yard to let them out in for exercise, etc. :)

:dem:

[safeinOhio]

79. Unless you live in the country and have a barn

there are no good reasons for allowing cats to run loose. It is a danger to them and a nuisance to other home owners. I'm in favor of leash laws for cats in residential areas.

[blublu]

74. ever heard of mice, rats and all other small rodents, who keeps thier numbers down?

[CountAllVotes]

84. my Maine Coon was a great ratter

he got them all! He cleaned out the place I was living in nicely. He got rid of all of the rats, the raccoons and even a family of *ugh* skunks that were living under this dump.

He was a menace only to these types of living creatures that I sure as hell did not need living in my house with me. I especially learned to despise raccoons! They can be rabid and are very nasty to deal with, especially if you have packs of them running loose.

Luckily I no longer live in this place. Thank god for my Maine Coon. He has been relocated to a ranch nearby where he takes care of the rat/rodent problems for the very grateful owner. :)

I do miss him however. :(

[ZombieHorde]

82. All value is imaginary. nt

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jody]

56. joeybee12 sorry you don't believe my posts are "intellctually" [sic] honest . Have you tried reading

them carefully?

[joeybee12]

58. You are so fucking wrong about this...n/t

[jody]

60. Why? Do you believe all invasive species are not harmful to the natural ecology? n/t

[XemaSab]

91. +10000

n/t

[Lorien]

108. Um, most natural predators have been killed off in areas where feral cats fill the niche

the feral cat has assumed the fox's role. The fox is on the decline because the coyote is without it's natural predator; the wolf. Coyotes kill foxes and cats, but wolves do not. Feral cats help to control the rodent populations that foxes once covered. The greatest danger to birds is habitat destruction.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Where I live neither cats nor dogs survive outside of the house

Sort of solves the problem for me.

[DesertFlower]

15. yes. same here if it's a cat or small dog.

the larger dogs seem to be able to handle a coyote.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

95. They run in packs out here and I have seen German Shepards that have been torn to pieces

Shortly after I moved out here, a group lost their dog to a pack. Happened several times since. Now that I finally have gotten the campers/OHV bubbas off my property, I no longer have to deal with that

[DesertFlower]

97. i don't own a dog, but if i did

i would not let him run around -- even if he were a pit bull.

i'm very protective of my pets.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

99. These were city folks, or at least suburbanites and had no clue about what it is like out here

in the serious desert. They let their dog run all day and in the evening the coyotes got it. Our dog was kept indoors here and watched carefully by my wife. He died shortly after she passed away.

[DesertFlower]

102. we were "city folk". we lived in new york city before

we moved to phoenix 20 years ago. we brought our cat joey and eventually adopted a few more. they were all "indoor" cats.

we could hear the coyotes howling at night. even if there were no wildlife, we would not let our cats out.

sorry for both of your loses.

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. Come the food shortages, "porch rabbit" problem will solve itself.

[Rhiannon12866]

9. Alley Cat Allies does some excellent work...

And sent me articles which helped me to socialize the cat that I rescued and brought in from outside... O8)

http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=191

[Guilded Lilly]

12. Thanks for the link :)

My little furry outdoor pal, Amazing Grace, became a great family feline with patience and love.

[Rhiannon12866]

109. You're more than welcome. So did my kitty, but it took a lot of patience.

I consulted a local expert on ferals and she told me that my cat didn't sound feral, since I saw her, but that this was a cat who "had lost trust." She was right, turned out my cat had been abandoned. It took me four months of feeding her outside and talking to her and borrowing a have-a-heart trap from the local animal hospital, to finally bring her inside. :-(

I sent for some articles from Alley Cat Allies and read "The Stray Cat Handbook" to try to socialize her, but what helped the most was needed dental surgery. She must have been in pain. The first time I took her to my vet, my friend who has worked for the SPCA had to come into my house and catch her for me and my vet had to sedate her. But after her dental work, she became almost a lap cat, but only with me... :-)

Kudos for your success with your Grace. She was so very fortunate to have found you... O8)

[DainBramaged]

10. Anyone who thinks hunting cats is OK not only needs their heads examined

you instantly make my ignore list, forever. Where I used to live, it was quiet and traffic free and the cats were mostly outside cats. To even consider killing cats as sport is beyond reprehensible and vile.

[DesertFlower]

17. i agree. nt

[anonymous171]

18. What is the difference between hunting feral cat and hunting wild deer?

[DainBramaged]

20. So you approve?

[anonymous171]

22. No, but not because I think feral cats deserve some kind ofspecial consideration.

I just think hunters wandering around populated areas trying to shoot or trap small animals is a bad idea. However, I do not see why the animals in question being cats makes it a worse idea.

[DainBramaged]

24. So sad you see it that way. When a housecat gets out and is shot, who explains that?

Goodbye.

[anonymous171]

27. Seriously?

:eyes:

[JVS]

37. Yeah, that seems less than wise.

[joeybee12]

53. Good phucking lord..feral cats are offspring of DOMESTICATED cats

they have no natural instict to fear humans/hunters. They have a much more tolerance for man, it'd be like shooting in a petting zoo.

[Hansel]

35. Exactly how do you distinguish between a feral and domestic cat?

Seriously.

Domestic cats revert back to feral tendencies in a very short period of time (some within a matter of minutes) when they are afraid. So your pet cat gets out and because it acts feral is it okay to kill it?

Not all stray cats are feral and not all feral cats are strays.

Cats should always be indoors, but having stupid owners shouldn't be a death sentence for them.

Can't wait to see the companion bill to allow hunting of all stray dogs. Perhaps when a couple of hunter's dogs get picked off there will be a change of heart. Somehow me thinks that the public would feel just a titch more outrage over a proposal like that. Even though some dogs kill and maim humans and cats don't.

I like the stray cats around my house because they keep the mouse and chipmunk populations down. I have a very healthy bird population in my yard and neighborhood and have yet to see a cat with one in their mouths. The "they kill the birds" meme seems to be significantly exaggerated. I've seen quite a few with rodents in their mouths because they are a hell of a lot easier to change than birds. I would like to see what happens with that if this become law.

[DainBramaged]

36. I never ever read where a herd of cats attacked a baby

but you hear of packs of dogs killing children every year. And since when did fighting cats become as popular as fighting dogs???

[MineralMan]

63. Interesting. Are the chipmunks native to your area?

Just asking.

[safeinOhio]

66. Deer taste great, cat taste just like.....

never mind.

[Edweird]

69. Deer is food. Cats are pets. Some people go duck hunting,

but that doesn't make it ok to shoot your parakeet.

Also, hunting within city limits is usually illegal.

[blublu]

71. Deer dont sleep on my bed, nor do they sit on my lap

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. There are those who hunt feral cats to protect birds. That I can understand, but I do not support it

[DainBramaged]

23. I'll take some pictures of 'my' feral cats and post them this week.

It is NOT their fault their humans abandoned them when they moved, it is NOT their fault their humans didn't give them better care or did not have them spayed and neutered, and it is NOT their fault they don't have homes now.

[joeybee12]

54. That's pretty fucking cruel...contact a group to trap the animal,

get it fixed and the problem solves itself, if not, relocate it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

76. Its been an ongoing issue is some part of of California...and I again I do not support this

[jody]

26. I understand your love for cats and my two cats do also. However an invasive species can wreak

havoc on a natural ecology.

You can learn more about them at National Invasive Species Information Center

What is your solution to the problem with the invasive species feral cats in the U.S.?

[flvegan]

31. True about invasive species. Look what humans have done. n/t

[DainBramaged]

33. Thank you

too many guns, too few targets......

[jody]

42. We agree on that point. n/t

[DainBramaged]

32. What is your solution? First I will repeat, anyone who thinks this is acceptable policy

is dead in my book.

Second, the little shelters and feeding stations where I live are a direct result of the efforts of myself and my neighbors to control the problem. Over SEVENTY cats were spayed and neutered, and over 40 were given new homes. Most had been abandoned house pets to begin with.


If you folks think feral cats are such a problem, why not worry about the hundreds of species imported into this country that are killing our forests, crops and house pets.....

[jody]

43. I haven't thought the issue to arrive at a solution. The problem does exist and if shooting is not

acceptable, then what do you propose?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[sandyd921]

41. TNR is the answer

not hunters gunning them down. Educate yourself:

http://www.aspca.org/adoption/feral-cats-faq.html

[jody]

46. What does TNR buy for a feral cat, a few months of life? Average life of a feral cat is 2 years. n/t

[DainBramaged]

47. So you think it's OK to kill feral cats?

Merry Christmas............

[jody]

48. Under some circumstances just as it's OK to dispose of other invasive species under certain

circumstances like Burmese pythons in Florida, burros and horses on some national lands, pigeons in some cities, etc.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[glinda]

29. More people with guns and not enough targets.

[DainBramaged]

30. Exactly

[ProgressiveProfessor]

85. Actually the feral cat killers on the local media are most bird lovers

and are using poison

[glinda]

106. Poisoning more than just cats.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

110. Had not seen that, but its been quiet on the media front about it for a while now.

[glinda]

114. Think "food chain".

[dmr]

34. Repulsive! n/t

[aikoaiko]

38. The Australians used to provide a guide for the "ground shooting of feral cats"

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/pubs/cat001-ground-shooting-feral-cats.pdf



This is from 2004. I don't know if they still do this.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[michaz]

44. In our neighborhood people are dropping off their house cats and

just abandoning them. We have so many homeless abandoned kittens and cats. We took in one of them and put food out for some. They come in the evenings and eat as fast as they can. I am amazed they survived the winter. Some of these owners should be shot!

[FarCenter]

50. Feral cats and dogs are introduced alien species that are harmful to the natural environment

They should be disposed of by the most expeditious means possible.

[DainBramaged]

52. What about alien humans?

[boppers]

98. Alien Humans?

Humans have been in north america since at least 50,000 years ago. We're not exactly new to these parts.

[DainBramaged]

111. No, think again about my question..........

:think:

[boppers]

115. Your point being... that cats and dogs are native species in much of the area?

Dunno about Hawaii, but canines and felines are long-time North American species... were you making a sarcastic point about "alien" being the wrong word?

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[tkmorris]

65. Put that way, so are you and I

And we have fucked up the natural environment far worse than a pack of feral cats ever will.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tkmorris]

67. I'm hoping that it is the wording of the posts that got them deleted

And not the perspective being advocated. I see little reason to assume otherwise at this point.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

88. Concur

Some of the pro life (for feral cats) posts are over the top and I don't see anyone truly approving of cat hunting.

[Texasgal]

78. Agreed.

It's f'ing GROSS.

[madmom]

68. So then what happens when we are over run by rodents?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

90. Few cats are actually mousers

The vast majority are indoor cats and hunt nothing but catnip and bits of string. Unless you are on a farm without serious predators, outdoor cats rarely are the control on a rodent population

[madmom]

100. Be that as it may, I have had problems with rabbits (rodents) eating my garden, I was told

to sprinkle used kitty litter around the garden. Rabbits smell the cat they leave. It works! So it seems cats don't have to "catch" anything just being there helps.

[whopis01]

113. Actually, a large percentage of cats are hunters

The feral cat population in the US is roughly as large as the pet cat population. Claiming the vast majority are indoor cats and hunt nothing is wildly incorrect.

[SnoopDog]

73. I say cats must be treated like dogs...

Dogs must be on a leash - cats must be on a leash.

Dogs must be confined to the owners property - cats must be confined to the owners property.

Sorry - I don't like cats. They come into my yard and poop. They kill birds. And
the owners could care less...otherwise they would not let them roam free.

I say enact a law - cats are not to roam free... If the owners are caught letting their cat
roam free - then give a ticket. After 3 times - impound the cat. After that.... bye bye...

I like all animals - but if a 'pet' cannot be properly cared for - then they suffer the consequences.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

87. I know people who trap cats on their property and take them to the humane society

If they are chipped, the owners get a call and can bail them out. Eventually the owners learned to keep them inside or don't bail them out. Either way the problem was solved.

Then one day the neighbor with the roaming cats saw the traps and there was hell to pay. Threats, claims of threats, cops being called, lawsuits for cost for bailing them out, etc. Finally the cat lady was served with a Order of Protection and soon after moved away.

It does work best if they are kept indoors.

[SnoopDog]

89. Yes, Trapping is currently the only legal means for this problem...

I don't want to harm a cat or any other animal - but I totally
believe in rights to 'protect' your home. And I consider a cat
shitting in my yard a VIOLATION.

I called - I can't shoot a cat (really, wouldn't do it but it is maddening). BUT,
you can trap a cat and send it to your country Animal Control.

Bad feelings in the neighborhood? Yup. But it is they who are
trespassing...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

94. My friends take them to a no kill shelter with a mandatory chip/spay/neuter policy

Bailing them out was not cheap. I am glad that where I am now there are no neighbors and no outside cats or dogs. Local coyotes see to that.

[msanthrope]

75. Feral cats are a problem on the Jersey shore. People abandon the

cats, and they are left to fend for themselves.

[L0oniX]

81. ¤

[ZombieHorde]

83. Funny. nt

[Withywindle]

86. I STRONGLY support voluntary, free spay/neuter programs.

For humans.

[stuntcat]

112. exactly, me too

They should make getting cats fixed a LOT easier. It's not the cats' fault they're out there living desperate lives, being hated.. they just shouldn't have been born.
Humans are just way too excited about a chance to go out shooting animals :eyes: especially cats. I T-N-R'ed three little tabby sisters, luckily I'm in a crowded city where no one's going to go around shooting animals.

And I finally got myself fixed last Summer, I had to wait until I was almost 40 for the doctors to take me seriously. I still have to keep it secret from some of my family.
I think about 75% of the rest of humans should also be spay/neutered.

[-..__...]

93. I see no real reason to shoot them....

if other alternatives are available.

I've had my share of both feral and domestic cats in my back yard stalking the song birds at the feeders.

My solution was to set out a live trap to deal with the problem (even if I was legally allowed to, I could never shoot a cat. Squirrels OTOH, are fair game :evilgrin:).

Surprisingly... out of the 5 I've trapped since last year, only two appeared to be ferals. The others were domestic (one had a collar and tag on. The other two looked too clean, well fed and docile to be feral).

With the ferals and untagged domestics... I called animal control to come and take them away. Let them deal with the problem.

For the tagged cat that I caught, I came up with an alternative solution.

Rather than handing the critter over to the cat police, I wrote a little note, and attached it to the cats collar, advising the owner to either keep their cat indoors, or at least attach a bell to it's collar; otherwise the next time I captured him he was going to the
gas chamber (subtlety was never one of my finer points :smoke:).

I haven't seen that cat since then.

[MadHound]

103. Those who don't learn from history. . .

One of the reasons the Black Death was so deadly was that it was carried by flea infested rats and mice. The rodents would croak in proximity to humans, in their homes, and the fleas would cross over to humans
Their had been an excess of these rodents, one that had come about due to Medieval Christian superstition concerning witches and black cats. Seems that the cats helped keep the rodent population down thus keeping the Black Death suppressed. That is until that whole cat/witches/Medieval Christian superstition thing kicked in.


Here we are, 650 years later, looking to kill cats again. Hmmm, think about it.

[jdp349]

116. You know I was going to post something snotty

but then I asked myself simply what good would that do anyone. There are enough pricks on this board to begin with.

I can only advise you that you would be well served do a little more research on the topic. While part of the equation was rats, there was a whole lot more to it.

best of luck.

[undergroundpanther]

104. Fuck

If I catch any asshole shooting at a cat,around me ,they are gonna feel some pain.I for one would defend the cats,so I better get my claws finished.
I curse those assholes trying to get permission to murder cats in the name of BastSekhmetRa .May they be humiliated and hated,and never find peace or a place for their vile hearted deeds.

[sandyd921]

107. Amen brothah (or sistah?) n/t