One-Fourth of a Major Metropolitan Area to be Bulldozed!

[OKDem08]

Detroit during its peak was home to approx 2 million residents but now is only a shell of its former self. Some areas of Detroit have so many vacant, burned-out homes that they literally look like war zones. And yes, it is true that there are actually some houses in Detroit that you can actually buy for just one dollar. Proposed resolution: bulldoze one fourth of the city.

This story resounds with me.

What is happening to this country?



http://www.kfgo.com/regionalnews_Detail.php?ID=11328

[msongs]

1. war is good business for the war criminals and profiteers. nt

[Exultant Democracy]

2. Answer: What is the plot to robocop?

[sandnsea]

3. Some individuals will do much better

So there is that. I hope they're reclaiming the housing materials and not just burying everything under a pile of dirt.

"In Flint, no residents are forced out of their homes unwillingly. Instead, the city has been buying up houses in more affluent areas of Flint to offer to those in areas that the city wishes to bulldoze."

[Enrique]

4. the Silverdome recently sold for $500,000

$500,000 for a former NFL stadium.

[Bluebear]

5. Incredible.

[KamaAina]

38. And that's not even in Detroit proper

that's way out in Pontiac.

[blue_onyx]

6. This is sad...

but it's necessary at this point.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Sounds like a good time to buy up a bunch of property and build an Arcology

Read Oath of Fealty if you get a chance

[metapunditedgy]

8. I used to hear tales of neighbors banding together to burn down empty homes

because they became "crack houses."

Not much you can do if nobody wants to own or live in the properties.

Sad? Yes.

[KittyWampus]

9. Detroit is in the position of being able to redefine what America's cities look like and how they

function.

[XemaSab]

11. I think it's about to redefine what a neighborhood is

and how neighborhoods attain resources and deal with waste.

[Angleae]

10. Next year, OCP starts construction of Delta City.

[Doremus]

12. Restore the acreage to sustainable farmland. BigAg need not apply. nt

[readmoreoften]

13. That's because there are no homeless people left in Detroit.

And 1/4 of Detroit is uninhabitable. :crazy: Yup. That's it.

[Javaman]

14. What happened to this country? the repukes ran it into the ground with deficit spending

and not a dime for infrastructure or incentives to keep jobs here instead of going over seas.

[cbdo2007]

15. This happens pretty much all the time since the beginning of civilizations.

Certain areas die out over time and other places start up. It really isn't that big of a deal, it's just how civilization works. One place loses jobs and money so those people are forced to move to where the jobs are in order to survive. If whatever is left of Detroit is worth salvaging (I'm guessing most of it is obviously) then new businesses will move in and prosper as well.

It's always funny how people get worked up over cities becoming ghost towns while they probably don't even notice new cities emerging from right under their noses. Here is a list of US Metro areas and their populations in 2000 and 2008. I'm sure the growth has slowed in the past two years and the negatives are much higher, but it shows you how quickly govt. and technology centers are growing while car/steel places are shrinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

If the jobs aren't there, move to where they are. It's nothing new.

[blue_onyx]

16. Just move?

That's very simplistic way of thinking. Maybe when it effects you, you'll have a different opinion.

[cbdo2007]

17. Really, the world works in a very simplistic way.

Which is the way it has for thousands to millions of years.

What did the cavemen do when they ran out of food? Did they sit there and complain about how the food should come to them? Nope, they had to cross the river and move their family over by the mountain where the food was.

"Maybe when it effects you, you'll have a different opinion."

It already has had an effect on me at my current job, which I had to move to take because there were no jobs in my field in my area. Luckily I knew this in college when I started my studies so it wasn't a shock to me at all.

The population moves where the jobs/money/food are. It doesn't work the other way around and never will.

[DeschutesRiver]

21. +1. It has always been that way, and always will be. nt

[blue_onyx]

25. A lot of people are stuck

They have a spouse who does have a job, they have homes, they have family. It's NOT as easy and simple as you make it out to be.

You choosing to go into a field which you knew would require you to move is different. It was a choice you made.

"The population moves where the jobs/money/food are."

Not always true. Many people are moving to the southwest, which is desert. No food/water to sustain life. It all has to brought there.

[cbdo2007]

29. I never said it was easy. It is the way it is and people have to adapt.

Your post points out my point exactly. People are CHOOSING to move to the Southwest (Las Vegas, Phoenix) for the jobs which = money, that allows them to ship in food and water from other places because this is the current "hot spot" to move to even though it's obvious to every human with a brain that that area can't sustain life. Here's a newsflash for you from 100-200 years from now (if even that long) - Las Vegas and Phoenix are going to become new "Detroits" because food and water will get too hard to come by and will become too expensive to ship in.

So all the people who are moving there now are going to have to move again in the future, just as I described originally. It isn't easy and simple but it is what must be done for survival whether anyone likes it or not.

[blue_onyx]

32. Well...

You are correct about about cities in the southwest become the new Detroit. People think that what has happened to Detroit can't happen to their city. I disagree about it taking 100-200 years. It was only 40-50 years ago that Detroit was the fourth most populous city in the country. Water is already an issue out west and it's only going to get worse.

[Vinnie From Indy]

26. You are right!

The second half of that statement is the obvious conclusion that humans behave like some viruses.

[Romulox]

35. What tripe. Our gov't has only recently directed TRILLIONS to Wall Street, for example.

That's a massive subsidy to NYC. Cavemen? Ridiculous.

[JackRiddler]

52. Hey, don't blame New Yorkers - we didn't see the bailout.

And we're being screwed too!

Focus on the banksters. They're as much in the stratosphere as they are in any given financial capital.

[Romulox]

58. It was a "trickle down" stimulus many orders of magnitude the size of what Detroit has recieved

I'm not trying to beat up on New Yorkers, but those who preach a "free market" gospel only months after the biggest bail out of the private sector in human history.

[JackRiddler]

59. Agreed!

[alfredo]

54. Many great civilizations disappeared, not through conquest, but

through environmental degradation: the soil played out, forests gone, and water shortages.

[raccoon]

18. That might work for some people, to just move. But not for everybody,

those over 50 for instance.

[cbdo2007]

31. Ever heard of "survival of the fittest"?

Those who adapt to change will survive. Those who don't will suffer and die off.

I'm not sure why anyone is arguing with me here. Go watch the history channel or read a history textbook about civilizations throughout history, heck even just US history. This isn't my opinion.

I admit it, I wouldn't make it in a part of the country with a high cost of living. It's just too volatile for my realistic world view.

[Romulox]

36. Oh Jesus. The guy is invoking Social Darwinism to support his points now?

:puke:

[RainDog]

41. this is where your argument is bullshit

social darwinism is to science what creationism is to science... pure, unadulterated bullshit.

social darwinism has also been traditionally associated with racism as well.

while you have a point to make about human migration and the displacement of people because of changes in tech, etc. this has NOTHING to do with "survival of the fittest" unless you admit that the capitalists strive to make sure only they are fit.

in that case, yes, social darwinism is an appropriate description of predator capitalists who deserve to be shot on sight. to protect the humans who, anyone with any understanding of anthropology knows, employ affiliative strategies to improve survival.

[cbdo2007]

44. You just argued with me by telling me I was correct.

Weird!

Anyways, of course it isn't as natural as the caveman looking for food but have you not seen what's been going on with Govt. and industry over the past 2 years???? Of course I "admit" capitalists are to blame for this. The southwest analogy another poster used is more in line with the caveman comparison due to the water & food, but detroit is a direct result of bad capitalism. Then, even when the govt has money to give (which isn't capitalism) they give it to their rich friends on wall street, in NYC where they really don't have a shortage of anything, rather than to the people who really need it and the industry that they helped destroy by not forcing upon them higher standards to keep up with their foreign competitors.

Are we on the same page yet??? Seems like our only argument now is that you think I'm a poor communicator, which I'll probably agree with as well. There, you win!! But all my points still stand :)

[RainDog]

55. no. define "fitness."

that's where we differ, and where social darwinism becomes bullshit.

[raccoon]

56. Ever heard of "age discrimination?" nt

[leftstreet]

19. How come rich people never have to move?

:shrug:

[cbdo2007]

33. Who told you that???

I'd have them check their sources.

Rich people move all the time. Believe it or not there are even less opportunites for "rich people" in cities like Detroit than there are for "poor people".

I once worked for an internet start-up where they hired the top 5 executives all from out of town. Two from Chicago, one from Milwaukee, one from Dallas, and maybe Denver? I don't remember for sure, but they all had to move here to get a job at their professional level and at their income level. Alas, we went out of business and all the "rich people" had to move again to find work elsewhere, while the rest of us stayed put and found other jobs.

[RainDog]

24. it isn't that big of a deal?

hey, it's great to take the long view, but you're talking about people who have lost their entire lives.

you think it's nothing to move after you've spent your life in an area... you are either very young or simply very lacking in comprehension and compassion.

it always amazes me how people can be so callous toward the working class in this nation.

they are the canaries in the coal mines. since the 1990s the working class has been telling the U.S. that corporations and their outsourcing was destroying the middle class.

but, hey, no problem. move since your house is now worth less than what you paid, you don't have a job, you are of an age at which no one wants to hire you...

...no problem.

while you may have some ability to parse data, you seem to have forgotten how to be a decent human.

[cbdo2007]

37. I have plenty of compassion but getting worked up about it doesn't help anyone either.

It's like nature. Our civilization is happening all the time all around us and it is too big to garauntee any one person or group of people or industry, no matter who or what they are. Nothing is garaunteed so expect the unexpected.

It's funny that you mention the coal mines and the canaries...as neither one of these are necessarily permanent fixtures where they are located. Eventually coal mines run out of coal so everyone has to move to a new coal mine. Look at Canary Row in Monterrey, CA - it's a ghost town from 50 years ago (ok, a tourist attraction ghost town which was quite fun) but the canaries were based around the fishing industry there which collapsed so everyone had to move again.

There is a difference between being a decent human and actually paying attention to the world around you and HOW and WHY it works the way it does.

[RainDog]

39. lol.

you honestly have some communications problems when people talk about canaries in a coal mine as a warning about problems with policy and move to talk about ghost towns.

Yes, I am very aware of collapses of industries and civilizations.

The reason Brugge is a beautifully preserved medieval town is because the river silted up and industry moved to Antwerp.

The reason Asheville, N.C. has so many beautiful Art Deco buildings in because it took so long for the area to recover from the Great Depression.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know about human migration.

what you're missing is how offensive your blithe "get over it, it's life" statements are. I'm not in Detroit, not in the auto industry, but I can GET that it's a hard thing to face when your life dies in front of your eyes.

THAT'S what I was talking to you about.

That you still seem to think someone needs to be schooled about the reality of dying industry reflects how little compassion you seem to be able to generate.

it's like when someone dies.

do you go to them and say.. Hey, dying is inevitable. Quit 'yer bitching and moaning about that dead person who just happened to be your father... that's life!

because that's how your posts come across on this subject.

the real pity of it all is how fucked up the American system is with so little care for displaced workers, especially those who are middle aged but not old enough for retirement.

[cbdo2007]

42. I apologize for the lack of compassion....it was simply what I was responding to.

The OP simply stated "what is happening to this country?" and I was telling them. I wasn't telling someone who lived there to "get over it and move on" I was telling someone who I assume also isn't in Detroit but is looking in as an outsider like us that we are simply seeing the progression that has happened to every civilization throughout history. It's quite amazing that we are actually witnessing it happening on such a grand scale right before our eyes. We are living through what could be a major turning point for the USA.

Of course I wouldn't just say to someone who's dad just died, "well, that's what happens....always has and always will since the beginning of time" but if it's 2 years later and another friend says "Wow, I can't believe our friend's dad is gone. How could this have happened? How is he going to get through this?" then I'd be like, "well it's just life and death, and he's doing ok with it and he's moving on and stuff...."

That's how I took the OP, like they were really asking how this could happen to a major American city, so I told them straight out how it could and does happen all the time.

[LanternWaste]

30. I imagine some people may have fond recollections

I imagine some people may have fond recollections of growing up in a particular area, and could find it rather depressing-- regardless of either historical or economic trends.

I imagine when our memories are invested, it becomes just a little more than "that's just how it works..."

[marmar]

20. One fourth of the whole metropolitan area? Not true.

There are still 5.2 million people in the metro area. This is part of the CITY of Detroit. Sorry for the semantic obsession, but your subject line is misleading.

[WCGreen]

22. There is talk about converting a lof of this land into pasture

or urban forests...

There has also been talk about deincorporating the city and creating villages or small towns...

[Mari333]

23. SHOCK DOCTRINE

[Nikki Stone1]

45. +1

.

[Odin2005]

27. Detroit is a 1mil pop city with the infrastricture of the 2mill pop city it once was.

Something has to give.

[Gaedel]

47. Correction

Detroit was an almost two million person city that is down under 800,000 now and it will be interesting to see what the population actually is after the 2010 census.

For the record, I lived in Detroit 1940-1954 and in the Detroit suburbs 1954-1961.

[Blue-Jay]

28. I knew that this was about Detroit before I clicked.

I don't know what's going to become of Detroit, but if buildings are in such disrepair it's probably best to demolish them. It's a shame that such a great city has come to this. The fall/dismantling of the American auto industry has resulted in the destruction of Detroit. I doubt the city will ever recover.

[blue_onyx]

34. It will recover

Detroit may not be as populous as it once was but that doesn't mean it can't be as great.

[Blue-Jay]

40. I hope so.

I suppose I should amend my statement a bit. We'll probably never see Detroit as a blue-collar manufacturing mecca again, but maybe the city (and everywhere else for that matter) will be able to rebound with other business opportunities in the future.

[harkadog]

49. It will not recover

Nor will most cities in the Northeast recover. Business used to locate in that area because that is where the population, raw materials and infrastructure were located. The West and South were not nearly as developed. They are now. Business and people now go where the weather is decent most of the year. That is not the Northeast. The weather is terrible in that area. The population in the U.S. is moving southward and westward every year. Nothing will change that.

[blue_onyx]

50. "Nothing will change that. "

That's wrong because populations trends change and will change again. One of the reasons people moved west/south because central air-conditioning made it more tolerable to live in hot areas. I bet weather is one of the last considerations businesses look at when picking a location. The weather isn't really terrible in the north. It may be very cold at times but the south is very hot during summer months. Many, including me, prefer colder weather.

The southwest doesn't have much water and eventually the area won't be able to sustain the same level of population growth. The population trends will then change again. You can believe that depopulation and economic decline won't ever effect your city/state but you're living in denial.

[harkadog]

51. You are certainly in denial.

Weather is very important for business. Cold weather disrupts deliveries and makes it hard for people to get to work or customers to come to the business. That is not true with hot weather. I live in Arizona and we have plenty of water. You may prefer cold weather but you are in a small minority. Why do you think that every time we have a census states in the NE lose seats in Congress? That has been going on for decades.

[blue_onyx]

53. Really?

How does "cold weather disrupts deliveries and makes it hard for people to get to work or costumers to come to the business?"

"Why do you think that every time we have a census states in the NE lose seats in Congress?"

Once again...just because that's how population trend are now doesn't mean they will be that way in 20 years.

"You may prefer cold weather but you are in a small minority. "

There's millions and millions of people who choose to live in cold areas.

Population trends will change again, whether you like it or not.

[rufus dog]

43. not sure I see a problem

Detroit has struggled with decreasing population for decades. If the city and infrastructure was built to support two million and the city now has less than one million, what is the issue witch eliminating 1/4 of the city and the infrastructure support costs? If it is done properly it may actually substantially raise values of the remaining homes.

[Urban Prairie]

46. Once the railroads serving the Detroit area were acquired by

the Norfolk Southern and CSX, Detroit's fate was sealed, IMO. They built new track leading to and from the new Japanese auto plants built in the South, which made it far more efficient, faster, and much cheaper to transport vehicles than by truck to the Midwest and Northeast. I was one of the first victims of that, since I once worked for Conrail, which is now reduced to a tiny switching operation.

My former workplace below, which IMO, is a perfect symbol of my hometown's decline, as it looks like a gigantic "tombstone" towering over the industrial graveyard that Detroit has become.

[belpejic]

48. It must be sad for anyone who lived in now abandoned neighborhoods.

But Detroit could really be an example of how to deal with post-industrial realities. A huge vacuum has been created for entrepreneurs. Someone earlier pointed out that Detroit supports infrastructure for 2 mln people serving a population of 1 mln. To me this means opportunity. I live in CT and I know some people who have started manufacturing businesses in Bridgeport b/c they can get great space at low rents.

Detroit needs great planners and creative thinking. I don't know what it will result in, but there's no reason to think that it can't be opportunity, and progressive opportunity at that.

[lunatica]

57. I think that may be a good idea. Turn the land into parks or farmland

for the community. But chances are they'll pave it over and build a mega wallmart. Hopefully they have some sort of idea that's progressive and actually good for the city and the environment.