Where are all the Democrats? What does it mean to be a Democrat anymore?

[saracat]

In the last several days, I have been told the most astounding things by folks who I have perceived as Democrats. They have trashed the teachers and their union, literally using the phrase"F**K the teachers". They have on more than one occasion expressed pride that an anti-Choice group would endorse our legislation, and claimed they were an integral part of our party structure.Many have expressed support of the derailment of repealing DADT and support of the WH's asking for that delay. Others express support of the killing of wolves and other anti-environmental legislation.Combining all this with the support of troop escalation, the expansion of faith based efforts by the government and the lack of any fiscal accountability for Wall Street, I have been repeatedly stunned.

I have been told unequivocally that "winning is everything" and "it does not matter is this is a good or a bad bill, we have to pass it anyway".

This is NOT the Democratic Party I joined. It is NOT the party I have given my support to for years.If the Democratic Party doesn't stand for Unions, fair wages, environmental protection, reproductive choice, civil rights for all Americans, peace, Freedom of religion and separation of Church and State, as well as corporate regulation and accountability, what do we stand for?I honestly do not know anymore.I do not see how anyone can oppose any of our basic values and still call themselves a Democrat and yet many are.

The so called "pragmatists, who seem able to use any of our basic values as a bargaining chip label those who would support human values as "purists".Oddly enough those pragmatist have gained very little political mileage for their giveaways and have not been able to achieve compromise. They have gotten nothing in return, not even a single vote.

What has happened to the Democratic Party? I want the Democratic Party back. I want a Democratic Party worth supporting. I want a Democratic Party that makes me proud.The triangulating, compromising, bipartisan politically expedient incarnation of today is an embarrassment.

[Mari333]

1. right here.........................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q

[saracat]

8. One of my favorite musicals, and very apt.

[jonathon]

65. Progressive are organizaing. Here is a group that launched this weekend:

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=18628&uid=357529270668#!/group.php?gid=357529270668

This group's goal is to provide the momentum for a progressive democratic leader to challenge Obama in 2012 for the Democratic Party Presidential Nomination...

Why?

In 2008, Barack Obama was granted an extraordinary opportunity to lead the country in a bold, new direction. The American citizens gave him a landslide win and a democratic majority in the House & Senate, in the belief that he would truly act as an agent of change.

While no one expected Obama to be able to reverse the decade of damage inflicted by the Bush administration, America did expect him to uphold his campaign pledge to fight for the people over special interests and corporate interests.

We expected him to fight the good fight.

Obama took this golden opportunity and threw it away.

From the trillion dollar bank bailouts to the for-profit corporate written health insurance reform bill, Obam has shown his first priority is protecting the wealthy elite.

Instead of fighting for single payer or a real and robust public option - he allowed the insurance industry to dictate the terms of health reform.

Instead of ending the wars, he increased our troop presence and extended the war in Afghanistan

Instead of holding the Bush administration to account for their illegal war in Iraq, he choose to turn the other way and effectively allow the Bush Doctrine to stand unchallenged.

And, that is the very short list.

In representing corporate interests over the people's interests, Obama made a deliberate and telling calculation. He believes that corporate money is the key to maintaining democratic power. In representing corporations over people, he is assuring mass donations to democratic campaigns.

But, what is the use of democratic power, if it is not used for the people's benefit.

And, if you aren't governing for the people's benefit, why would you expect the people's support in the next election?

This group is the beginning of a national grassroots campaign to find a true candidate for the people, who has the courage and principle to represent citizen's interests over big money - a candidate whom we will work to support in the democratic primary in 2012.

This candidate will be beholden to us.

It is time that we, as a people, take back our political system and demand real representation of our elected officials. But, if we are to win to this fight, we must all commit to a new level of political engagement.

Remember, it was NOT Obama who won the election, it was US. It was our time, energy, passion, blogging, campaigning, money, fundraising that put him in office.

This time, let's put that energy into electing a politician of principle.

Let's all make a commitment to reengage in our country's political system. Holding our President to account is the very first step....

Welcome all!

[Sherman A1]

135. Agreed

and well said. I believe I will be sitting out the 2010 election. I will vote on local issues, but what goes on in Washington appears to be a matter of just how quickly the working class gets screwed not if they do.

[MissDeeds]

180. Excellent post

Sad to read through the list of failures and missed opportunities. This country needed a strong, decisive leader who would undo much of the damage of the * administration. Instead, we are stuck with a weak, indecisive rookie who prefers to follow many of *'s policies. Supporters will try to spin his each and every action as a success or part of a larger positive agenda that will take time - but it isn't working. He's a massive disappointment.

[freddie mertz]

151. Great clip. Sad truth. nt.

[lostsheik]

171. The true test: GOPness.com

http://GOPness.com

[mdmc]

2. Two corporate parties

One full evil, the other less so..

[Echo In Light]

5. _

[tbyg52]

162. Amen, sadly. nt

[mod mom]

189. unfortunately +1

[AtheistCrusader]

190. Two heads, one beast.

[readmoreoften]

214. Both full of evil.

I don't think the Republicans could've gotten away with passing legislation that allows the assassination of Americans abroad or the destruction of public education. They're the good cop-bad cop duo and they play for the same team.

[SoxFan]

3. Pup Tent Democrat

You have no idea how to get legislation passed into law, do you? You've never had to build a coalition of diverse constituencies, have you?

[saracat]

15. Actually, I do and I have.

[pattmarty]

74. I believe LBJ passed Medicare and it was up & running in 11 months......

......If you are weak with no balls AND have huge majorities, this is what you get. Oh, I almost forgot to add if you take "bribes" from corporations. How quickly SOME forget what damage the Republicans did in the last 8 yrs w/o even majorities a lot of the time.

[yowzayowzayowza]

187. You'd have a point if we currently had a majority like LBJ.

"huge majority" Whatta joke.

[pattmarty]

188. I don't know what the fuck you call 235+ in the House and 60 in the Senate....................

........other than "huge". Maybe on the planet your from "huge" means 100 in the Senate and 435 in the House. I stand by my original post.

[yowzayowzayowza]

200. Willful ignorance of Senate Rules, current and historic.

Huge is filibuster+5 er so. Democrats are at filibuster-2. As a result this is a Democratic coalition and not Democratic controlled congress. A HUGE difference another fistfull of Dems would make, numbers like LBJ & FDR enjoyed.

[pattmarty]

219. Well I would be willing to bet that neither had those kind of majorities.........

...........throughout all of their terms. They were involved in the legislation they wanted passed and that makes a BIG difference. Carter didn't seem to be and Obama surely hasn't been. Clinton is somewhat different as in 1994 he lost control of Congress.

[yowzayowzayowza]

223. Here, looks like you could use some help:

[liberation]

88. So... have you done any of those things?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[SoxFan]

96. Actually, yes

I was a state legislator for three terms and a city councilor for a term. I sponsored legislation to assist victims of domestic violence, introduced an amendment to maintain funding for the office of victim-witness assistance, and managed to secure a winning House vote for a campaign finance reform measure that was opposed by the Speaker, Majority Leader, and relevant committee chair.

[Mithreal]

138. Congratulations. Are you posting in this thread just to say you were a state legislator?

Calling a fellow DU'er a pup tenter is a lil obnoxious, don't you agree?

Maybe you can just put the qualifications for your opinion in your signature or profile so we can move on to hearing your actual contribution to the discussion? Considering you were a three termer, that's a pretty short list btw, no offense.

[plantwomyn]

173. Wow!

After what, 8 years of representing your constituents, you sponsored=failed to pass,introduced=failed to pass, and then actually secured a winning House vote.

And I thought Obama's accomplishments have been minuscule over the last 14 months. Thanks for your example of what the record of a truly inept politician looks like.

[SoxFan]

192. Yeah, passing bills when the Dems were outnumbered more than 2 to 1

is nothing.

Maybe you should talk to the domestic violence advocates and ask them about the work I did.

Or you can do what you do, bloviating from behind the safety of a keyboard.

[Mithreal]

201. You don't know shit what your fellow DU'ers do away from the desk.

Blowhard calls bloviating, rich.

I look forward to you sharing your wisdom, but I hope these couple posts weren't indicative, no offense. I am being honest, share what you learned, please consider how posts like these couple of yours look. I expect more from a seasoned politician if you really are. I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now.

[sabrina 1]

121. Bush got legislation into law, with unfortunately, support from

Democrats. If Bush could do it, I would think Obama could have done it.

I have to rephrase that. Presidents whose parties are in the majority can get a lot of legislation passed. Bush might have had more of a problem if Democrats had not supported some of the worst of his policies. Otoh, since Republicans were in the majority, it's likely he could have and would have done it without their help.

Obama is in an even better position than Bush. As we can see now, he doesn't need Republicans. Democrats could pass whatever kind of Health Care Bill they wanted. He has the support of the American people as well as the votes. But that would mean the president would have to want it also.

We were told 'we can't get the votes' and 'we can't use reconciliation'. Well, that is no longer the case, and still they are making excuses.

What all of this revealed was that from the beginning, Obama, maybe because of the $20 million he received from the Insurance Industry, DID NOT WANT what the people who elected him wanted, or what he said he wanted in the campaign.

He wanted and he will get a Republican lite Health care bill and if he had wanted a PO, that would be in there and he would, like Bush did, get it passed.

We were lied to. To imply that the OP doesn't understand how politics work, is just another excuse to try to excuse what has happened. We all know how politics work and what it takes to pass legislation.

Obama speaking about the Senate Bill: 'I got 95% of what I wanted'!

[freddie mertz]

152. What do YOU know about it?

My dad wrote national legislation that was passed by real Democrats and actual public-service Republicans (a now extinct species) in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

He worked with RFK, Teddy Kennedy, Eunice Shriver, Tip O'Neill, HELL, even with NIXON (who he personally despised, but could "work with" at times).

His legislation changed the world.

He would have puked over this so-called HCR bill.

AND the refusal to prosecute torture, mass firing of teachers, et al.

Why? Because he was a REAL DEMOCRAT.

[rhett o rick]

163. Once again the "It's toooo hard", argument. Democracy is sooo hard. nm

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sharesunited]

7. I know from my 2nd Amendment disagreements that Democrats are far from monolithic.

Some, like me, even support Israel's right to exist.

[saracat]

11. That is true but when some stray completely away from the basic

tenants of Democratic values,it really seems scary.Democrats may not all agree on how to acheive a certain goal but generally they shared certain concepts in common.

[rhett o rick]

167. The problem as I see it, is that Democrats no longer "share" common concepts.

The big tent we were so proud of got too big. Too many "ex" republicans have gotten into the tent and pulled the Party a long ways away from what I consider true Democratic values. And the way I see it, Pres Obama is catering to the new conserva-Dems or Blue Damn Dogs, or so-called centrists and turned away from the left and the core principles of the Party.

[ChiciB1]

209. Or Maybe... THAT Tent Collapsed & THEY Erected A NEW One That

is hardly recognizable anymore!! I KNOW I don't recognize it, nor do I recognize THIS DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!

I've tried staying away from watching this erosion as much as possible, but I DO have a political addiction that rears it head so much of the time. I keep coming back and it seems to get worse each time!

The OP is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and is simply stating what so so so many of us have seen for so long now. Obama may have been handed a huge mound of steaming S--T, but since so many here have stated in so many ways.... HE MUST HAVE KNOWN what he was getting into. I'm sure he may not have realized the EXTENT of it all, HOWEVER I do feel he hasn't done very much to make it better!! In fact, I now believe he seems to look the other way until he's called out to give ANOTHER "pretty speech" of which I'm tired of!!

And I NEVER would have dreamed he was going to become "just another one of them" as I now see he's become! But that's where the bitterness of the pill comes in. Were we all so STUPID to BELIEVE the HOPE & CHANGE that was promised?? Much harder to swallow a bitter pill, and even more so when given to you by one you THOUGHT was one your own side!!!

What we seem to be getting more and more of is COVERAGE for the FRINGE, and what they SUPPORT! I'm livid because of what I've seen and it's VERY, VERY hard to support Democrats who are sticking it to "we the people!"

You know that old saying... with friends like THESE, who NEEDS ENEMIES??? Everyday I have MORE questions AND everyday I get fewer answers!!

:nuke: :grr: :nopity: :wtf:

[kenfrequed]

32. Hmmph

Stating that we as a nation, should recognize the bad behavoirs of another nation, is not suggesting that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. It is merely a position that we deal honestly with all parties and nations involved. To suggest otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Not to mention it is a cheap attempt to hijack this thread.

[juno jones]

69. No kidding.

In before locked and sent to P/I dungeon.

[demosincebirth]

9. We have a big tent and our job is to get democrats elected, then go from there.

[Individualist]

10. So you support these democrats?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7919091

[demosincebirth]

22. I will support any democrat over a republican any day, any time.

As far as Joe L.he's not a democrat. I have been around and active in politics for years. I have seen us, democrats, shoot ourselves in the foot many times and it all starts out with one group trying to alienate another group of democrats because they don't see their point of view about a certain candidate or certain policies. We belittle single issue voters for voting republican, yet,we may do the same as democrats.

[saracat]

23. I will never vote GOP either but just out of curiosity would you vote for a Dem

who was anti-choice , pro war, anti environment, anti-GBLT, pro big business , and against heath-care and favored butting the Bible in schools and endorsed teaching creationism as a science as well as advocating dismantling the public school system and advocated the use of tax payer dollars for religious schools?Would the "D" after his name be sufficient to get your vote?

[demosincebirth]

26. Lets be realistic, now. Any person, like the one you described

would surely not be a democrat.

[saracat]

27. Actually, some fit more than a few of those catagories. Seriously.

[hfojvt]

44. fitting a few is not the same thing as fitting all of them

and the left seems to adopt an all or nothing approach. Anybody who is for the Afghanistan war is "pro war" even if they opposed the Iraq war. Anybody who is not zealously pro-GLBT is defined as anti-GLBT. All nuance seems to be lost. And 8 out of ten becomes the equivalent of 0 out of 10.

[unkachuck]

101. "All nuance seems to be lost."

....that's because betrayal and compromise have brought the Progressives to where we are today....we win elections but never gain power....

....corporatists in minority status, have more power than we have....

[Individualist]

30. You need to learn more about DLC.

They're for all of those things. On the other hand, I'm guessing you already know that.

[demosincebirth]

40. One thing missing in this discussion is "I respect your point of view."

Not seeing it, I think, might prove my point. All discussion aside, if you know what a 'yellow dog democrat" is? I'm a modern day one.

[saracat]

45. I do not disrespect your POV. I do not agree with it entirely but I thought we were civil.

I will never vote for a GOP candidate and you will apparently always vote for a Dem. I have never voted for anyone but a Dem but the way some things are shaking out, I have questions. I know I have some personal bright lines. I will never vote for an anti-choice Dem but in some cases that might leave me with noone to vote for.It is a conumdrum.

[laughingliberal]

57. I was a yellow dog democrat in the days when you could bet most Democrats

were representing the ideals of the party. Today with a lot of Democrats espousing supply side theories and anti-choice agendas and with few, if any, talking about poverty, I no longer am. I won't vote for Republicans for any reason but there are a lot of Democrats I won't vote for. Ballots in my state have a 'none of the above' choice. This one fits for me, sometimes.

[Individualist]

59. I have no respect for DLC, the organization that has undermined the Democratic Party

and enables neocons. The same goes for their supporters.

[pattmarty]

75. There are some in both houses that come awful close.

[dflprincess]

113. I will never vote for a Republican either

and that includes the ones who put a "D" after their name. So I suppose I should say, I will never voter for another Republicrat.

[followthemoney]

120. Obama supported Joe L. and abandoned the Democrat nt

[Lord Helmet]

125. That's horseshit. Obama supported the Democrat who won the nomination -- Ned Lamont.

It is true that most Democrats including Obama supported Lieberman in the primary as it is traditional for Democrats to support their incumbents.

However, when Lamont won the primary, Obama supported him and helped him raise money.

edited for link ---> Lamont Gets Help from Obama

old DU thread with Obama's fundraising email for Lamont

[goclark]

149. Thanks for the reality check

:fistbump:

[followthemoney]

225. Mr. "Change you can believe in" supported the biggest booster

for Bush's war of aggression against Iraq. Mr. "Change" really had more in common with Lieberman than was apparent to most in those days.

Barrack sold people on CHANGE and should not be seeking approval for conservative actions in TRADITION. You accept his traditional support for war. I don't.

[Lord Helmet]

226. More horseshit from you.

You posted a statement that was flat-out wrong and I corrected it with facts backed up by links. Deal with it.

[Nikki Stone1]

228. .

.

[followthemoney]

232. The only horseshit here is coming out of your mouth. nt

[arcadian]

12. Who's job is that exactly?

[saracat]

13. But do we not elect them to represent us? If they do not represent

Democratic values and then proceed to not represent them once elected, why have we elected them? If they aren't going to set a Democratic Agenda and support it? Is winning all that is important if the only thing that will matter is reelection?

[demosincebirth]

25. I agree, we do elect them to represent us, but

they are elected by a majority of democrats...not by the minority. Boxer is my senator. I do not agree with her on many issues, but I support her because of her belief in the dignity of the workingman and his right to organize into unions for the benefit of their fellow workers. Once he/or she fits that mold, some of their other beliefs fall into what I believe, also.

[saracat]

29. But Boxer is not usually one that runs contrary to the platform.

She is also a liberal, and AFAIK,runs as one.

[Nikki Stone1]

20. And that would make us different from the GOP how?

Without philosophical underpinnings, the whole thing is just a popularity contest.

[Lorien]

78. So, party over policy? No thanks

policy matters far too much. It's time for a third party; one that will represent the people over Big Corporate interests.

[demosincebirth]

81. That will for sure, insure a republican in the White House

[howmad1]

86. Like it's going to make a difference.

[liberation]

90. So basically the only thing Dems stand for in a consistent fashion is electoral black mail?

The whole crying GOP wolf is starting to get reaaaaaaaaally old. The Dems have extracted some stupendous mileage out of it though.

[demosincebirth]

104. Would you rather have a Democrat in the Whitehouse or a GWB clone? Yes or no

Pls, not "buts."

[frylock]

116. have you stopped beating your wife? yes or no

[demosincebirth]

118. Can't answer a question ? Parry with a question. Typical

Like trying to discuss something with a delinquent...ya never get a straight answer. Good night.

[frylock]

119. i would rather have a liberal in the white house..

your labels of democrat or republican don't mean jack shit to me, as i am neither.

question for you: are progressives irrelevant, or will they cost the dems the election?

[demosincebirth]

123. Sorry, we don't have a liberal party in the U.S. eom.

[frylock]

124. yeah. we do..

they're called the green party, and after a brief affair voting for dems for president, i'm going back to voting green.

i can imagine an answer to my question won't be forthcoming.

[demosincebirth]

215. Okay, go get your self ready for the next WTO meeting. You'll have

plenty of like minded people there. This is my last post to you. I don't do fools well. Good day, adios.

[frylock]

217. you don't do ANYTHING well..

WTO meeting? hunh?!

and you have yet to answer my question.

[Tailormyst]

224. Try asking real questions instead of BS faux like push questions.

Then perhaps you would not get mocked for behaving like a fool.

[Daemonaquila]

172. Makes no nevermind, if we get more of the same.

If the Dems don't field a real Democrat, I'm not voting for either. I may vote for a Green or an independent if someone decent runs. Current spineless Dems vs. a GWB clone? Whatever. The current crop has done nothing to undo his poison. Guantanamo is open. The USA PATRIOT Act provisions have been extended. The wars continue unabated. The military industrial complex is getting richer. We had 5 minutes of lip service to allowing gays to serve openly in the military. We have no reasonable health care solution. Cheney, Rove, Bush, Yoo, et al are untouchable. There are no serious changes being made in the policies of the last 8 years.

[GOTV]

183. Really? You just asked "Would you rather have A or B? Please answer Yes or No."

[frylock]

115. just as quickly as dems actng like repubs will

[Tailormyst]

222. This is not a sporting event.

It's not about your "team" winning. This is about the American people winning. This is about values and ideals. If you are voting for someone who does not uphold your ideals then you are just a member of a cult of personalities, interested in the win and not about what happens after the win, living for that rush when you can yell " in your face" at your rival team.

[demosincebirth]

231. The Democratic Party stands, in general, for what I believe in and always has.

It seems to me, you go too far to the left... you start having a closed mind just like some right wing wackos that we talk about here on DU. I see it happen here daily. I respect everyones view point here on DU, no matter what, but I can't say the same for many here. I, at times, get flamed for posting my opinion that some may not agree with...even though we are all (I think),striving for the same goal post. In pointing fingers about being "a member of a cult of personalities." I have to remind you, when you point a finger, you have three pointing back at you. \Thanks for your response to my post.

[laughingliberal]

235. +1000 nt

[frylock]

114. 1) collect underpants

2) ?????
3) profit!

[rhett o rick]

168. You forgot your sarcasm icon. Not all Democrats are created equal.

We have to get rid of lots of DINO's. They are killing our party. Kick out the damn Blue Dogs.

[upi402]

14. k/r n/t

[ibegurpard]

16. apparently it means proposing healthcare "reform" that locks insurance corporations

into the equations permanently
And privatizing public education...among the other things you listed.

[Edweird]

17. +1

[laughingliberal]

18. The current party with notable exceptions in the House Progressive Caucus is about where Republicans

were in the 1970's on the left/right continuum. I believe a lot of people who lived all of their adult lives after the shift caused by Reagan are unaware of how far right the party is compared to pre-1980. I know many conservatives of the 70's who have been paying attention feel both parties have moved too far right for them. A lot of people who have left the Republican party due to the bat shit crazy wing have now infiltrated our party ranks and have pushed us to the right. And a few of the bat shit crazies now run as Democrats, too. Stupak, for instance.

[zipplewrath]

24. Yes, it's been hard for me

I'm technically a "boomer", aka 1959. However, I grew up and became politically active just as Reagan came on the scene. "My" generation had the cultural revoltution, grew up, bought Volvo's and elected Reagan. The shift back right continues to this day. There is a re-alignment coming, I can feel myself becoming radicalized. My suspiscion is that we are headed to whole new coalitions of a "blue collar" party and a "merchant class" party. It will take 20 years, but the dems have abandoned the working class and the GOP is abandoning reason, science and education. How it all sorts out, I'm not sure. The miriad of cultural issues will be up for grabs, and the environment will probably get split in two. Surprisingly, I suspect the NRA/2nd amendment crowd is going to end up with the blue collar bunch, and the merchant class will probably end up with a more "gun control" focused position. If I had to guess, I say the dems will be the "merchant class" party, and the GOP will be the "blue collar" bunch. I suspect it will be the merchant class that will end up bring us a single payer system.

[laughingliberal]

66. I'm just a bit older than you

Born 1955 but was raised in a family of activist Democrats. My first political memory was my mother taking me with her to the polls when she voted for JFK. My next was sitting on the couch crying over the televised coverage of his funeral. I think a lot of us who experienced that were a bit precocious politically. People the ages of our older brothers, sisters, cousins were taking us with them to rallies and marches while we were in what is now called middle school.

As liberal as I was in those days (and since) these last 10 years are pushing me further left to the point I'm no longer certain well regulated capitalism can succeed. It does start to look as if capitalism will always, over time, find a way to screw the workers and anyone who is not at the top already.

Hopefully, it won't come down to people lining up due to positions on gun control. I think I'm hearing more out of friends who are self described conservatives about the screwing of the working class these days. Problem is it's hard to make the pitch to them for Democrats because the answer that comes back has to do with the bank bailouts and other corporate friendly policies in which the Democrats have participated. A clear delineation would have been a big help in this age where a lot of people are awakening to the screwing over they've gotten from 'big business.' Now we haven't much of a leg up on the other guys when it comes to a populist message.

[zipplewrath]

85. The shift is going to be ugly.

I figure it will take the better part of 15 years. One party or another will have to abandon alot of old positions, which will effectively require alot of folks to die off and the next generation be wedded to different hard positions. The working class will need to organize around one or the other party, and that unification will require them to dump hard lines on alot of issues. I'd hope it would mean that workers would see ALL civil rights as part of a general idea of workers rights. That economic "rights" includes access to the wealth of the nation for all, not just some ruling class. And that the "business" of America isn't business, but a collective pursuit of the general welfare and happiness.

Alternately, there may have to be mutual accomodation on issues like abortion and guns where we recognize a woman's right to choose, and a governments right to regulate the commerce of medicine. And that individuals have rights to possess weapons, and the government has a right to regulate the commerce of them.

[laughingliberal]

109. Sounds like a plan to me. I think it's going to take a long time, also

The problem with that is I think there is a large population of liberals right in our age group and those just a bit older than us. I think, and this is just my opinion, those born just after us (early to middle sixties) may tend more conservative as in more supportive of supply side economic principles than our age group. Then the millenials and those just ahead of them a few years seem to be more in touch with the plight of the working class. So, there could be a coalition that would build for more liberal economic policy but it seems it skips a generation in there. I'd like to see a shift in this direction but not sure I will survive long enough.

Not sure how the social issues will play out. The millenials seem to be shaping up to be liberal socially. Those just ahead of them are less so, I think.

[NuttyFluffers]

83. every time you capitulate and compromise with crazy RW this is what you get.

RW loonies go right, Democrats try to meet them halfway. never satisfied, RW loonies then just go right again. Democrats, playing the "who ya gonna vote for? the greater evil?" card, then set themselves up again for another hard sell that we gotta compromise and stick together.

we as a people need to say enough. the game stops now. good cop, bad cop needs to end. better the pain now and recovery later than keep digging a deeper hole.

[laughingliberal]

84. +1 nt

[Xenotime]

19. We are here waiting for the hope and change we were promised.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. They've been "triangulated" into the "not as bad" Party who are only greedy for office.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[WinkyDink]

28. It means to be Kuciniched. Obama is Republican-Lite.

[ProSense]

31. "who I have perceived as Democrats"

Were they actually Democrats or just people perceived as Democrats?

You're accusing a entire Party based on what a few "perceived" Democrats have said.

Serioulsly, do you have evidence that the positions you stated in the OP are now part of the official Democratic Party platform?

[saracat]

33. Don't be obtuse. These are quotes from folks who are self described Democrats.

I perceive them as such because that is how they describe themselves. There are also some Democratic politicians who also adhere to some of these positions. I do NOT feel that these people ought to be considered Democrats, yet many insist that they are.I claim our Party position is the reverse of this in our platform and I am clear about that.

[ProSense]

34. You make claims about what some unknown people stated

well known to you, and then use their statements to lambaste the entire Democratic Party.

[saracat]

35. Baloney. The Democratic Party is lambasting itself by allowing such folks to

appear to be the majority and by attacking its own base.It is unimaginable that such people would say such things. And yet they do.And everyone knows it.This is what is known as public knowledge.

[ProSense]

36. Can you show where this is official Party stance:

"'F**K the teachers' killing of wolves and other anti-environmental legislation."

Is is impossible to call out the people who made these statement rather than generalizing to claim this is the official party stance?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

41. I do not claim that it is. I claim those who I do NOT consider Dems say that.

MY point is that this is NOT the platform.

[ProSense]

42. "This is NOT the Democratic Party I joined."

Those people making those statements do no represent the Democratic Party's official position.

[Nikki Stone1]

43. Thank you for kicking this post.

It is very important that everyone see the OP and make up their own minds. :)

[laughingliberal]

54. +1000 nt

[saracat]

46. Exactly. That is my point. Thank you!

[ProSense]

47. Not really

"What has happened to the Democratic Party? I want the Democratic Party back. I want a Democratic Party worth supporting. I want a Democratic Party that makes me proud.The triangulating, compromising, bipartisan politically expedient incarnation of today is an embarrassment."

The insinuation is that those statements represented the Party.

[laughingliberal]

60. Seems as if people can read the OP & your responses and evaluate what they are reading

in light of other information and form their own opinion.

[freddie mertz]

153. But they are commonly expressed here. nt.

[suffragette]

208. My state's platform is in the zone with you and so am I

Some samples showing exactly where we stand which is demonstrably in accordance with what you posted.
I agree there have been too many compromises to our basic principles and I am sick of it.
Also sick of those trying to make the case that these aren't even our principles.

http://wa-democrats.org/pdf/Washington%20State%20Democrats%20-%20Platform%20-%20080614.pdf
Washington State Democrats Platform – 06/14/2008
Page 5 of 20
1 5. Education
2
3 We believe that an excellent, quality public education, preschool through post-secondary, with
4 equal access for all is fundamental to maintaining a healthy democracy. “It is the paramount
5 duty of the state to make ample provisions for the education of all children.” The Washington
6 State Constitution – 1889
7
8 We call for:
9
10
Affordable access and full funding of all basic, gifted, vocational, technical, alternative,
11 special education, ELL (English Language Learners), and other state/federal programs
12 and mandates;
13
Certificated and classified employees’ salaries, cost of living increases and retirement
14 and health care benefits equal to those of other professionals of similar experience and
15 backgrounds to attract/retain quality public school employees;
16
Funding for smaller class sizes (P-12);
17
Conflict resolution programs that prevent violence, bullying, harassment, and
18 retribution from staff and students;
19
Full inclusion of all students into the school environment regardless of race, ethnic
20 origin, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, economic status or disability;
21
School counselors, librarians, and nurses sufficient to serve the needs of every student
22 throughout the school day;
23
Full funding of Head Start and Early Childhood Education and Assisted Programs
24 (ECEAP);
25
Affordable access to Post-Secondary education;
26
Including Fine Arts and Physical Education in the Basic Education Act;
27
A curriculum that is scientifically accurate;
28
Math instruction that includes both arithmetic fluency and critical thinking skills;
29
Instructional freedom that is student-centered within the approved P-12 curriculum;
30
Simple majority to pass school bonds;
31
Public education employees’ rights to organize, engage in collective bargaining, and
32 strike without fear of reprisal or replacement;
33
A new, stable funding formula for public schools and capital projects;
34
Abandoning the WASL as a mandatory high school graduation requirement;
35
Parental participation that supports student learning;
36
Full funding for school transportation.
37
38 We oppose:
39
40
Charter Schools and vouchers;
41
The commercial exploitation of students;
42
Linking military recruitment to educational funding;
43
Organized prayer in public schools;
44
“No Child Left Behind”;
45
Basing teacher pay on student test scores.

9. Health Care
2
3 Health care is a basic human right. Our government should assure, and guarantee by law,
4 accessible and affordable health care for all.
5
6 We believe in establishing an ethically-based, not-for-profit health care system, serving
7 patients and public health needs focusing on optimal patient outcomes at a cost we can afford.
8
9 We call for:
10
11
A comprehensive, single-payer national health care plan emphasizing prevention,
12 primary care, and chronic disease management, using available evidence-based
13 guidelines;
Services that include quality outpatient and inpatient services; acute and long-term
15 care; home, residential, and hospice care; mental health care and substance abuse
16 programs; dental, visual, and hearing services; family planning with contraceptive care;
17 alternative care; and rehabilitation, according to health care needs;
18
Coverage of prescription drugs, medical supplies, durable medical equipment and
19 medical technology with attention to assuring effectiveness, appropriate usage and cost
20 containment;
21
Development and implementation of an interim universal state plan, with benefits as above;
22
Interim reform of Medicare Part D, including price negotiations to control costs and
23 elimination of gaps in payment coverage (“donut holes”) and co-payments for persons
24 dually covered by Medicare and Medicaid;
25
A unified electronic medical record system that safeguards patient privacy, while
26 enabling a seamless transfer of information between portals of care and providing a
27 more accurate way to assess clinical outcomes;
28
Freedom of choice in our own health care, including the choice of a personal physician
29 to provide coordinated care with continuity;
30
A strong patient bill of rights, including the right to refuse care;
31
Public health policy based on sound scientific guidelines following recommendations of
32 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention;
33
Increasing the supply of health care providers with incentives for working in primary
34 care as well as underserved communities and populations;
35
Increasing funding for medical research based on scientific merit, not a political agenda;
36
Increasing funding and support of international family planning agencies within the
37 United Nations.
38
39 We oppose:
40
41
“Cherry picking” of patients, conditions, or coverage;
42
The linking of health care coverage solely to employment; health insurance must be
43 portable between jobs and when unemployed;
44
“Pre-existing conditions” clauses in insurance policies;
45
Spend-down requirements for persons eligible for Supplemental Security Income and
46 Social Security Disability Insurance before they can receive Medicaid.

Washington State Democrats Platform – 06/14/2008
Page 12 of 20
10. Human Rights, Civil Rights 1 and Human Services
2
3 We recognize that the inherent dignity and the equal and inalienable rights of all human
4 beings are the foundations of freedom, justice and peace in the world. The strength of our
5 democracy rests on the rights and responsibilities set forth in the U.S. Constitution, the “Bill of
6 Rights” and the subsequent Amendments to the Constitution. Food, shelter, privacy,
7 education, employment opportunities and access to quality health care are essential to
8 ensuring basic human rights.
9
10 We believe:
11
12
Discrimination of any kind is wrong; those who face discrimination must be afforded
13 the legal means and economic opportunities to overcome such injustice;
14
We have the right to sovereignty over our own bodies;
15
Everyone has the right to die with dignity;
16
Marriage, as a legal union of consenting adults, should not be restricted by sexual
17 orientation or gender identity;
18
Our government must accept its responsibility to provide a safety net of social services
19 to meet the people’s needs regardless of their national or racial origin;
20
Public assistance is necessary to safeguard the vulnerable poor and people with
21 disabilities who cannot reasonably provide for themselves;
22
In the separation of social services from faith-based requirements;
23
The Geneva Conventions must be applied to all detainees, foreign or domestic, no
24 matter where they are held.
25
26 We call for:
27
28
Proactive efforts by the Democratic Party to involve people of color and other
29 marginalized groups in the democratic process;
30
Religious freedom and the constitutional separation of church and state;
31
Respecting the rights of all adults including seniors and individuals with disabilities to
32 direct their own lives in housing, education and all other life choices;
33
Adding enforcement provisions to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990;
34
The right to confidentiality of medical records and genetic information.
35
The end of human trafficking for the sex trade or other forms of involuntary servitude;
36
Family planning and reproductive rights including a woman’s right to choose
37 regardless of age or ability to pay;
38
Strong legislation, treatment programs and education designed to reduce harassment,
39 intimidation, and domestic or sexual violence;
40
Galvanizing the public will to end homelessness.
41
42 We oppose:
43
44
Discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodation, military service,
45 insurance, licensing or education based on race, religion, age, sex, marital status, sexual
46 orientation, gender identity, disability, physical attributes, political affiliation or
47 national origin;
48
All forms of torture;
49
The misuse of private data by corporations and institutions.

[cornermouse]

68. That doesn't make any sense.

You post a fragment of a sentence that is followed by a typo of some sort? It makes no sense.

[frylock]

117. she's out of her element unless posting boilerplate..

or blind links to WH press releases.

[karynnj]

51. But you are cherry picking all the things you disagree with

and are implying those are common positions in the Democratic party. The fact is that the majority of Democratic leaders are with you on these issues.

[Nikki Stone1]

55. "Cherry picking" has a different meaning than I think you want here

The OP is basically reflecting many comments made and positions taken by high ranking officials (like Obama) and low ranking DU posters and everyone in between. Many of these comments and positions have been repeated. They may not be yours, but there is a large swathe of the party that goes along with these kinds of statements or positions.

[tranche]

37. Snore

[Prism]

38. The working class have no lobby. The elites have taken over.

I think, for me, what is really crystallizing the current problems in the party are how the politicians and the partisans speak.

Look at what the politicians keep explaining to us is affordable in this health insurance clusterfuck. I'm not sure where they get their ideas from, but their idea of affordable and my own aren't within many parsecs of each other. I was raised poor and working class. I'm temporarily working class at the moment. I know, through too much experience, exactly how pinched Americans truly are by the economy, health care, the financial collapse.

Our politicians have absolutely no idea. If they did, they would not be doing this bizarre political slapstick routine for over a year on health insurance reform when tens of millions of people are sinking under the weight of our economic collapse. Seriously. Look at how Americans are suffering and then look at what these buffoons in Washington are getting up to. Is there any greater disconnect?

And then there are the comfortable partisans. Quite honestly, if I said what I wanted to say on this message board, I'd get TSed so fast. I am plain, stone-cold sick and tired of watching posters with $700k homes and their kids in private schools spamming this board with propaganda and lies about what "the poor" really need, what they can really afford, what's really super awesome for them, and how teachers and others should be publicly horse-whipped.

For too many of the propagandists, this is a game, a soap opera, a team sport. They have their heroes and villains and cheer accordingly. They grab up the poor like political human shields when they themselves consistently betray a total ignorance of what it's really like to be poor in America, what it really means to barely make ends meet, what insurance truly entails when you're nearly bankrupting yourself to purchase coverage while still being utterly unable to afford care.

But there's this cavalier "Let them eat insurance!" attitude, pushed, promoted, and propagandized by these partisan privilegeds that has been handed down to them from the professional political class.

"Well, all these political leaders support this bill!"

Really! The professional political class, whose well-being and retirement funds are dependent on their political success - or at least their ability to claim it - don't want to go down in flames because of their own hilarious and tragic ineptitude? Really! Well color me a rosy shade of ass-pink. Who could have possibly foreseen that?!

And let's not get into this really gross over-identification with celebrity and the powerful. "Oh, the poor President. Things are so hard for him. People aren't grateful. So mean. He should tell everyone to go to hell."

The poor President! The most powerful figure in all history, in all the world, is the true victim! Those rotten, ungrateful, vile poor, racist, evil American workers. Just so unappreciative of the most privileged individuals on planet Earth.

It's the most perverse mindset I've ever seen, and yet here it is, and here we are, and anything and everything will be done to prop that dread, power-enabling psychology.

Party? What party? We're just down here at the bottom. It is our privilege - and we better be duly thankful - to watch the people at the top masturbate one another with their wonderfulness as the rest of us sink into an economic quagmire.

If there is ever again in this country a party that really does have Clue One what working Americans deal with on a day-to-day basis and are actually interested in moving on their behalf, sign me up. Because that is not what the current Democratic Party is all about. Not even close. Not for a long time now.

[Starry Messenger]

52. I'm right there with you brother.

The things I'm not saying here would fill a book.

[karynnj]

53. How do you know the economic status of posters on this board?

Not to mention, if there are posters here with $700,000 homes and sending kids to private schools, they may be here because they are Democrats - and they might be more progressive than the guy living in a $200,000 home.

[Prism]

56. Over years of reading, you figure it out

People make mention of their homes, families, etc. After years of reading, you'd be surprised how much you know about posters if you pause and think about it.

And the worst apologists for power are, in my experience, the most comfortable among us on this board.

[ProSense]

76. "And the worst apologists for power are, in my experience, the most comfortable among us"

This is the kind of logic the the self-proclaimed owners of the progressive wing employ.

Utter BS.

[closeupready]

159. Not BS - the absolute TRUTH.

Sucks for some people, huh?

[laughingliberal]

77. People do tend to cooperate with the status quo if not outright voice support for it

as long as it's working out OK for them. But the pain is moving up the socio-economic ladder. Eventually, there will be enough experiencing the discomfort for a real groundswell of activism against the status quo.

[laughingliberal]

61. +1000 nt

[scarletwoman]

70. Wow! That was really beautifully said!

"It's the most perverse mindset I've ever seen..." That's the psyche of this country in a nutshell.

I can't really add to what you said, all I can do is say "I totally agree!"

:thumbsup:
sw

[DisgustedInMN]

145. You spoke my mind...

.. better than I can myself. I go March 27 to a District Convention, whether or not I remain a member of the Democratic Party rides on what happens there. If there isn't solid representation of the PROGRESSIVE (or as it should be known Democratic) Wing of the Party, I'm done. No donations, no door knocking, no phone banks, no GOTV. Period.

[closeupready]

158. You ALWAYS nail it on the head.

+1000

[Robeson]

165. What Prism said.

[mitchtv]

205. Thanks Prism

just about says it for me

[Kltpzyxm]

230. K n R

beautiful post

[AnOhioan]

48. Had a conversation today with a friend...his comment was that........

The Republican Party went bat-shit crazy and the Democratic Party became what the Republicans used to be.

I agree, we now have a bunch on the far right who are completely nuts and a bunch inhabiting the center-right of the spectrum. Those are the two main parties.

Ain't life grand??? :sarcasm:

[saracat]

49. Scary, huh?

[laughingliberal]

62. Yep. nt

[Forkboy]

50. What...you don't feel proud to be a member of the "We're Not As Sucky As The Other Party Party"?

x(

[laughingliberal]

63. Good point. nt

[Solly Mack]

73. +1

Sadly, I've seen that sentiment expressed here on DU.

It speaks too much of a cowed acceptance where no change for the better is possible and everyone should just be happy for what they get. All the while you're being told to shut up and accept the least sucky, you'll also be told how the least sucky will be improved once everyone just shuts up and accepts the least sucky.

And I'm not talking about any bill in particular - it's an across the board attitude regarding any least sucky thing being promoted. It's not just about politics either...it conveys into all aspects of a person's life



Becoming accustomed to accepting less can become a way of life. You get to the point that you're grateful for being kicked because no one slapped you that day.

[closeupready]

160. Yep. It's like battered wife syndrome - 'if we all cheerlead for Obama, we won't lose our jobs/

/lose our homes/get sick/etc.' It's like a kind of Hoping For Candyland mass delusion.

Wake up, people.

[amborin]

236. in a way, we're worse, given the added layer of hypocrisy

[karynnj]

58. You should look at a list of Senators or Congressmen - the vast majority

do believe in Democratic ideals. Many have worked for decades on healthcare, affordable housing, the environment, woman's rights, civil rights, gay rights. Many of these now head important committees - especially in the House.

I have no idea what Democrat wants to kill wolfs and under what circumstances. As Prosense advised, maybe you need to call out the people supporting these bad things or saying these awful things, rather than condemning the entire party.

[saracat]

67. Well, the Prez just signed legislation authorizing people to hunt the previously protected wolves

some folks thought that was hunky dory.And there is no denial we have anti-choice Dems but some think that is just fine as well. Many people take many positions and a lot of those positions are contrary to what I believe a Democrats is. Others may disagree.What is frightening is how many Democrats in general are voicing these type of opinions.Thirty years ago few Dems would have taken these stands.

[ProSense]

79. Do you have a link to this? n/t

[saracat]

95. Here

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7871289

[ProSense]

97. "the Prez just signed legislation authorizing people to hunt the previously protected wolves" And

you provide a link referencing the administration's delisting of wolves from the endangered species list last year?

[saracat]

100. Get over yourself.This was just posted here on March8-2010

Mon Mar-08-10 08:47 PM
Original message

That was when I read it. Does it really matter "when" such horrible action was enacted? How is that possibly more important than the action itself?

[ProSense]

105. "Get over yourself."? You're the one claiming that the President just signed a bill to allow hunting

Crock!

[saracat]

107. Sad really that when is such an issue.It is what that counts.

[jonathon]

64. Join this group on facebook that launched this weekend - these are your breathen

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=18628&uid=357529270668#!/group.php?gid=357529270668

[JTFrog]

146. No.

:puke:

[skeptical cynic]

71. Don't look now, but...

the party of MLK is dead. It died right about the time Zinn published "A People's History of the United States."

Twelve years later, we elected Clinton, a Neocon masquerading as a Democrat. Sixteen years after that?--Oops, we did it again!

And the Democratic mainstream is just fine with that. They've become pragmatic about things like war, poverty and civil liberties. They were raised on trickledown economics, and think it's normal. Paraphrasing Benjamin Franklin, they've given up liberty in pursuit of security, and they will soon wake up with neither.

It's time that the democratic party went along it's way without progressives. They and we will be happier for the split.

[pattmarty]

72. The sad truth is these people are not liberals. Take a look at the...........

.........Green party website and if you agree with their platform, then I would say you are a true liberal. A lot that post here are conservadems, elitist wannabes, or just conservative/Republican "plants". FDR was a liberal, LBJ was a liberal, Ted Kennedy was a liberal AND Dennis Kucinich is a liberal. By my count in the House there are probably 100 maybe a few less, in the Senate maybe 30 give or take.

[demosincebirth]

103. FDR and LBJ would not call themselves liberal for the...

same reason Clinton, Carter and Obama didn't call themselves that, either. That was the what the republicans labeled them...their code word for socialist.

[pattmarty]

147. Well I am calling them liberal, and Clinton, Carter and Obama ARE NOT.

[demosincebirth]

216. Thats your opinion.

[pattmarty]

218. Yes it is. Just compare FDR-LBJ to Clinton, Carter AND Obama...........

...........and..............?

[NorthCarolina]

80. Well, if that's the way you feel then you are obviously not a DLC "New Dem" then. eom

[Donnachaidh]

82. the Democratic Party needs a high colonic to rid itself of the *pragmatists*

I have never heard so much RW rhetoric swaddled in blue used on a board *anywhere* else. Even Air America - and they had some winners over there! Multiple postings daily of the *same* talking points - that's such a *new intern* tactic.

Mocking dissent?

And please -- give me a break with the Tiger Beat photo ops.

Great post saracat -- k&r!

[bvar22]

87. The guy I voted for claimed that he:

*Was AGAINST Mandates

*Was AGAINST the Cadillac Tax

*Was FOR a Public Option

*Would PAY for it all by Raising Taxes on the top 2%

After a year of concession after concession to the Republican Party,
we are left with a Republican Bill.
They got everything they wanted without taking ANY Political Risk.
NOW...after there in nothing "Democratic" left in the Bill,
Only NOW, Obama takes to the Bully Pulpit DEMANDING that we support this Republican bill, and ridicules principled Democrats who call him on his bullshit.

Who is the "Centrist" Democratic Party Leadership really working for?
LESS than 35% of ALL Americans support Mandates with NO Public Option,
so they are clearly NOT working for the American People.
Good luck selling this shit to America in 2010/2012.

They turn their back on ME,
I turn MY back on them.
I've had enough.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[SocialistLez]

92. I had enough a long time ago

I plan to support Joyce Elliot in the Arkansas house race but outside of that, I pretty much vote strictly Green Party.
If the Socialist Party gets active in AR (which I doubt...) the Greens will have my vote.

I voted Green in 2008 when I voted for the first time at the age of 18. I will NEVER give a dime to the Democratic Party because of this betrayal.

[bvar22]

94. Welcome to DU!

Things are pretty hectic these days.
You seem to know where you stand, and THATS a good thing.
I've a life-long Liberal "Issues" Activist and don't get caught up in the personality or Party cults.
I try to stay focused on The ISSUES and avoid the high school food fights.

We live in West Central Arkansas, in the Mena Area.
Good to know you are in this state.
One more voice on our side.

[demosincebirth]

102. Well, have fun. You'll be lonely out there

[Sherman A1]

136. +1, Agreed & Well Said!

[midnight]

89. K&R

[scentopine]

91. democrats have torn a page from the neo-con handbook and

its time to leave the two mainstream right wing parties behind us and create a new political party. Do not believe that change can come from within.

As the income disparity between rich and poor widens, both parties will use us as cannon fodder.

Congress and the executive and courts exist to serve only the fortune 500. When they have a few minutes, they throw us a few wedge issues like gay marriage to keep us distracted while they steal the shirt off our backs.

[democracy1st]

132. checkout this post when you get a chance

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x443418

[ericblair]

93. When has it been otherwise?

Certainly not in my lifetime (I'm 50).

[grantcart]

108. The OP is talking about the good ole years when the Democratic Party

is out of power and has no real influence on policy.

Governance requires a different kind of discipline.

Most have it.

Kerry, Sanders, Kennedy, Rockfeller, Feingold, Durbin, Levin, Franken and Sherrod Brown are all for HCR.

Dean is for it.

All of them consider it a big step forward and only a begining, but for the purists it is a betrayal of ideology. All of the other great advances from Social Security to Civil Rights were also the result of one big step followed by incremental improvements.

The fact is that since the legislative system of the US includes a legislative body that is not based on population that rural conservative states can hold back and make big sweeping legislative changes almost impossible.

Real Democrats understand that.

[omega minimo]

111. You are arguing a different point, using one issue and a buzzword.

The OP is talking about many issues and what the Party stands for overall.






"All of the other great advances from Social Security to Civil Rights were also the result of one big step followed by incremental improvements."

If your comparison was correct, there would be a strong public option and the beginning of the end of insurance company monopoly over our health care.

[Change has come]

137. Real Democrats?

How disappointing.

[omega minimo]

110. you grew up during it. maybe you weren't paying attention. Reagan was the beginning of the end.

The "style over substance," the doublethink, Newspeak, propaganda, Iran/Contra big lies/non impeachment, Gingrich/Luntz More Lies All The Time, all the strategery the OP speaks of. You were there.

The Democratic Party as a whole has tried to appease, rather than actively oppose, ever since. The best liars continue to win.

[LWolf]

98. K & R nt

[WillyT]

99. I Hear Ya Saracat... For Some It's Philosophy, For Others It's Just Like A Fan At A Football Game...

Rah, rah, sis boom bah...



Sad really...

:shrug:

K & R !!!

:hi:

[JTFrog]

144. Sad really that some show contempt toward fellow dems the way one would expect freepers to act.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5524913

A few people have expressed confusion about what is permitted here now that Obama is president.

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

Nonetheless, if anyone is confused about what is permitted here, I'll spell it out as clearly as I can. It's pretty simple:

* Any and all substantive criticism of Barack Obama and his policies is permitted. And by "any and all substantive criticism" we mean all of it -- no issue is off limits.

* Expressions of dismay, disappointment or disagreement with Barack Obama or his policies are permitted.

* But insults, name-calling, or other expressions of contempt toward Barack Obama or his supporters are not welcome.


There is a part of me that is a little disappointed (but not surprised) that this even needs to be said. Even if you don't agree with President Obama on a number of issues, I guess I kinda thought that everyone here would consider themselves -- on some level -- to be among his supporters. Or, at very least, I didn't think that any DUer would want to deliberately use the same type of language one would expect to hear from tea-baggers and Freepers.

[WillyT]

157. Okee Dokee...

:shrug:

[pundaint]

106. We have accepted a few self-defeating memes. Liberal is bad, Conservative is smart,

War makes us strong, It's this or nothing, We can't do better, and the worst one - that either evil deserves our vote. We'll take our party back when we clean out our heads of this mush.

[dchill]

112. krnt

[Skittles]

122. oh, the standards have VERY much been lowered

you can see that just by what has happened to DU

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lord Helmet]

127. +1

[Nikki Stone1]

128. Alerted

Personal attack. The OP did vote for Obama.

[waiting for hope]

130. How do you know?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7288173&mesg_id=7291732

She did vote for him.

[grahamhgreen]

129. sadly the people have fallen for a simple con - the bait and switch...nt

[defendandprotect]

131. K&R -- back tomorrow

[democracy1st]

133. K & R

[PinkFloyd]

134. I think the real question is...

When did the Democratic Party become a bunch of wimps. Most of them still agree with the ideas you mention but they never stand up for them. It seems like they capitulate immediately in congress, they include ideas from the Republican party and then every single Republican votes against the bill, unless of course they 100% capitulate to every single idea the GOP wants...then it's a toss-up. Look at Dodd's financial reform bill to see a shining example of this. Look at health care, where the Dems have had a year and a super majority in both houses of congress and they gave up the public option almost immediately and included GOP ideas, (hell the bill is the 1993 GOP bill minus tort-reform), and still zero GOP support. They still believe in all the values they used to, they just don't stand up for them anymore.

[JHB]

148. Basically, after Watergate

The older generation of leadership scared themselves by taking down a sitting president and therefore followed the "this country can't survive another failed presidency" meme in the 80's, which hobbled more thotough investigation and prosecution of even greater abuses of power under Reagan.

The younger generation of leadership (boomers) experienced the presidential losses in 68, 72, 80 and 84 and learned some of the wrong lessons a bit too well.

Add to this changes in campaign financing in the 70's that de facto favored corporate and single-issue groups, which helped bring together those attacking the Democratic establishment from the right, while setting factions within the Democratic coalition against each other.

[DailyGrind51]

139. The Democratic Party of FDR died at the '68 Convention in Chicago!

When conserva-Dem Mayor Richard J. Daley initiated a police riot against Leftist demonstrators and delegates selected moderate Hubert Humphrey over progressives George McGovern and Eugene McCarthy.

[icee]

140. I was there, by accident. I saw stuff I will never forget.

[RedstDem]

141. The problem is the Democratic party doesn't represent the working middle class

It's really a shame, the takeover of the country is all but finished.

class war is over, the people lost.

[JTFrog]

142. Well over at the oldelmtree of course.

Everyone else is obviously just a poser; especially if they support that president guy. :eyes:

:shrug:

[Echo In Light]

143. +1000...haven't posted there in quite a while!

[skeptical cynic]

161. What's oldelmtree

Sort of a Democratic Underground Underground?

[freddie mertz]

203. Got a link for that?

:wtf:

[JTFrog]

210. Oh hell no.

I'm pretty sure it's frowned upon to link to sites that spend so much time attacking DU mods and members.

[freddie mertz]

211. I've seen links to Freep.

Is it any worse than that?

[JTFrog]

212. I would never link to freep.

And I wouldn't compare the two sites. Their attacks on certain aspects of DU is about the only thing they have in common. Well, that and showing a good deal of contempt for our President. But obviously from opposite extremes of the political spectrum.

But why would you ask for a link to a site you're a member of? I'm sure you know more of what goes on there than I do. :shrug:

[freddie mertz]

220. I've posted there once or twice.

Seems pretty free-form to me.

[JTFrog]

221. LOL.

Your secret "E" name is safe with me. :eyes:

[freddie mertz]

150. K & R. What ever happened to Dr. Dean's "Democratic Wing" of the party?

Swamped by a wave of DLC bullshit, promoted by an administration that promised "change" and "Hope," but has delivered on neither.

The election we all thought we won apparently never happened.

No need to go the Supreme Court anymore.

The whole system has been sold to the banks and insurance companies.

[seabeckind]

154. We, the people, belong to a party

Mostly because we identify with the principles of the party -- well, most of us. Some try to change the party principles once they join. To them, I say GTFO, you're in the wrong class.

Unfortunately, to become elected to any office higher than dog catcher, you must be a card carrying member of the corporate party.

And that party does not permit any dissent.

[SlingBlade]

155. IT MEANS NOTHING TO BE THIS TYPE OF DEMOCRAT !

Saracat, Thank You ! K & R !
I've been here since the early day's and I can't tell ya how utterly disgusted I am

The Democratic Party has lost its soul. These aren't Democrats saying and doing these things.
They're Republicans without the guts to admit it, Materialism has eat'in them like cancer.
Their Lieberman Liberals,ConsevaDems,Blue Dogs, Reagan Democrats, ANYTHING but Democrats.

That's the meaning of BIG TENT these day's, Not the inclusion of various liberal and Progressive thought, Not the exclusion of bigots, homophobes, class elitist and war mongers, Oh No.
That's the rot and decay of it all, And yes, Once again for the thousandth time

IT ALL STARTED WITH REAGAN !

This is the result of reaching across the aisle when you know all that's over there is
corruption and decay hypocrisy and deceit, An outstretched hand with a knife in the other
President Barrack Obama and his so called bi-partisanship will more than likely and hopefully be the end of this experiment in morphing two totally incompatible lines of thought.
God knows the number of people he has already thrown under the bus to reach this plateau and in doing so has lost the support that no democrat can afford to lose. Yet he acts as though he doesn't care, That he can survive without them. Even Bill Clinton in his most republican day's wasn't so arrogant as to believe that fantasy, Yet here it is as he sends his bull dog and Chicago gangster Rahm Emmanuel and his crew out to make one hit after the other on Progressives and Liberals who have stood firm against his corporatism thinly disguised as bi-partisanship.


Look around,What do we see, Right here on DU,And on a daily basis.
The institutions of liberal and progressive thought and actions freely being ripped apart in the open and without the slightest bit of fear that they will get their asses flamed or booted the hell off as they should.

I see Howard Dean, Barry Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Unions,Michael Moore, Teachers,Gays and Peace Warriors such as Cindy Sheehan being snickered at,libeled,hated and denigrated to no end.They hold up war and corporatism as the new banner for the new democratic party and do it all using the tactics of FreepTards everywhere.

HERE ON DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND !:wtf:

Well to hell with that, I'm not a new democrat, I'm a real democrat,and we don't sit well with this nasty puke driven shit called the new democratic party. These fuckers should be FLAMED, shunned and booted the hell out of the party, DU and any self respecting organization that wears the name Democrat. They are not democrats, They are the living essence of Republican Trolls !

Yea, And you know who you are you fucking waste of skin.

Get the fuck outta my house, Now !

[unapatriciated]

237. I just gotta rec your post.

and a kick for sarah

[Overseas]

156. K&R . //nt

[brindis_desala]

164. I sympathize with your sentiments but your reading of history is wrong.

Democrats have never been a "progressive" party. LBJ would never have succeeded without the votes of liberal East Coast Republicans. LBJ's principled advocacy turned the Southern voters from Democrats into Republicans. The Nixon Republicans could then set about purging the "Liberal Elite" who supported LBJ's Great Society. Democrats have been struggling for cohesion ever since.

[rhett o rick]

169. Well the non-progressive party was able to pass progressive legislation. nm

[branders seine]

166. nothing at all for 99% of them.

For the 1% who still hold Democratic principles, it means you will be attacked unmercifully by apologists and operatives of the corporatist, anti-worker, anti-middle-class, anti-Earth majority.

[Taverner]

170. When Obama cheered the RI firing - it was a signal for the teacher haters to come out

For the life of me, I have no idea why some despise teachers so much...

[Nikki Stone1]

227. Yes it was.

And it's always easy to hate the powerless. Teachers are the proletariat of education.

[Taverner]

229. Too bad I can't rec your sub-thread

[man4allcats]

174. The Democratic Party is no more. The Republican Party is no more.

They are now two sides of the same coin. That coin is corporatism, and it now owns this country. It has for some time, actually. I suspected as much but wasn't sure of it until this past year.

[seabeckind]

185. Thank you...said it better than I n/t

[SandWalker1984]

175. THEY have taken over both parties. Who is THEY?

The Most Powerful Destructive Corporate Business Club Most Americans Have Never Heard of -- the Business Round Table


There's a great article by David DeGraw over at

http://www.alternet.org/economy/145996/the_most_powerful_destructive_corporate_business_club_most_americans_have_never_heard_of?page=entire

That explains how our government has been taken over by a wealthy, economic elite group headed by the Business Roundtable.


This is from the article:

For three major examples, look at healthcare and financial reform, along with the military budget. The healthcare reform bill devolved into what amounts to an insurance industry bailout and was drastically altered by Roundtable lobbyists representing interests like WellPoint, Aetna, Cigna, Pfizer, Eli Lilly and Johnson & Johnson. Obama and Congress are trying to please the Roundtable with a bill that supports their interests. This led to the dropping of the public-option put forth in the House bill. However, when it came to finishing the bill, Roundtable members began to walk away from the process. That’s the real reason why the reform bill has stalled. Obama met with the Roundtable on February 24th, in hopes of getting healthcare reform back on track. After that meeting, he held a bipartisan healthcare meeting with members of Congress.

Also addressed in Obama’s meeting with the Roundtable are issues concerning financial reform. Almost every aspect of financial reform has been D.O.A. thanks to Roundtable lobbyists representing the interests of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, Bank of America, HSBC, Master Card and American Express. They even pushed to make sure Ben Bernanke was reconfirmed as the head of the Federal Reserve and they have also guided Obama into focusing on deficit reduction, now that their member companies are healthy again and making record profits after receiving trillions in government subsidies. The Roundtable played a pivotal role in the appointment of Hank Paulson, formerly the CEO of Roundtable member Goldman Sachs, who replaced Roundtable member John Snow as US Treasury Secretary. The Roundtable also strongly lobbied on behalf of current Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and White House National Economic Council Director Larry Summers

also....

Shortly after Obama’s inauguration he held a meeting with Roundtable members at the St. Regis Hotel. The president of the Business Roundtable is John J. Castellani. Throughout the first nine months of Obama’s presidency, Castellani met with him at the White House more than any other person, with the exception of Chamber of Commerce CEO Tom Donohue. If you look at the records of people who have spent the most time with Obama in the White House, other than these two, another frequent visitor is Edward Yingling, the president of the American Bankers Association.

These organizations - the Business Roundtable, Chamber of Commerce and the American Bankers Association - along with the Federal Reserve, a secretive quasi-government private institution, form the center of the Economic Elite’s power structure.

*************************


Both parties now work for and represent the corporate elite, not us.
THAT's what happened to the Democratic party.

[Gman]

176. The Democratic Party is not a far left wing organization

if you think so, you are very mistaken. It never has been, it never will be. The party is a coalition of many very diverse, often conflicting interests.

YOu're looking in the wrong place for a radical left wing organization.

[SlingBlade]

177. FAR LEFT ? What the hell are you talking about ?

Take that Right Wing shit back to the gutter that you found it in.
The radical left wing ?

Let's see how well you do in November without us far left wing radicals my conservadem friend.

[Gman]

178. We'll do just like we always do since we've known for 40 years that

the far left can't be counted on anyway. After all, don't forget how the far left supported Nader and gave us Bush. Just plain stupid.

[SlingBlade]

198. More BullShit from the Dem Right Wing

[dmallind]

179. Better than the Greens and Socialists I'll bet. NT

[SlingBlade]

197. Yea, That makes sense

[MissDeeds]

181. Good questions, Saracat

This is not the party I joined, either. Not by a long shot.

K&R

[dmallind]

182. Here's the real test

Read the current party platform.

That came from the most grassroots, least "corporate influenced", least "media biased" election of "real democrats" possible - party activists elected by party activists.

If you find yourself thinking the policies therein are a bit too left more often than that they are too right or OK, then you actually ARE a conservative Democrat (as opposed to the DU use of the term, which is anyone past Sanders or Kucinich) who veers to the right of the mainstream Dems. You are still a Democrat if you prefer and advocate these policies more than the GOP manifesto

If you find yourself thinking the policies therein are OK more often than that they are a bit too left or a bit too right then you are a mainstream Democrat,

If you find yourself thinking-the policies therein are a a bit too right more often than that they are OK or too left then you are a left-wing Democrat who veers to the left of the mainstream base. You are still a Democrat if you prefer and advocate these policies more than the Green or Socialist manifesto.

If you prefer the GOP manifesto, or the Green or Socialist manifesto, then your thoughts on what a "real democrat" should be or is are worth absolutely bugger all. Go to the party you prefer and whine about what they need to do. If you prefer the Democratic manifesto but want to move it rightward or leftward feel free to try - by means of electing or being elected as a member of the committee that writes and approves the platform. If you can;t that means more Democrats don't WANT it to be leftward or rightward and then by definition you are in one of the minority fringes of the party and the mainstream base is not where you are.

Pretending YOU are the base just because you want to be (and this goes for Stupak fans or Bayh fans as much as Kucinich fans), or because you seek an echo-chamber is empty posturing. The base IS what the platform is. If you disagree with it and cannot get it changed then you are the fringe.

[colsohlibgal]

184. It Means Being DINOs...Mostly

There are some democrats who are really still democrats, just way too few of them and they're hardly in control of the party.

Democrats are the reason we haven't got much done this last year, not republicans.

[Kermitt Gribble]

186. All the real Democrats are still here -

we're all just floundering now because the Party has left us. I'm hoping one of the few Liberal reps we have in congress will be fed up enough to start a third party or push more support to the Greens, but that's wishful thinking.

The 'new democrat' choir on DU, IMO, is made up almost entirely of paid shills and parrots who can't think for themselves. They never stray from the party line and all use the same talking points - it's pretty obvious. we need to start ignoring them and get on with figuring out what we're going to do now that we no longer have a political party that supports us.

[Greyhound]

191. K&R. We frequently disagree no a variety of topics, but I'm completely

with you on this one.
:hi::kick: & R

[swilton]

193. The Democrotic Party (RIP) has moved to the right

to replace the Republicons who have moved into the nut house.

This is no longer the party of FDR - RIP

[WheelWalker]

194. We say, “where does it go?”

But wherever you go,
there is the dynamic stream of change.

“Where doe it go?” is the answer.

Where does it go?

[cascadiance]

195. The answer to fixing the two corporate parties is simple. Public campaign financing!

How to get public campaign financing in place, and to get those that can't or won't work within that system weeded out though is the tough part, and one we all need to search for answers for!

[craigmatic]

196. In this day and age being a democrat basically means

that you are against the right wing repub agenda. It doesn't neccessarily mean that we're capeable of successfully pushing our own agenda but we essentially stop bad things from happening. It's not like it was under FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ, and Carter when there was a strong left wing in this country. Now the right has so much dominance in the media and culture that Prresident Obama has to beat back member of his own party before he even gets to the repubs.

[Greyhound]

202. That's the point. The party doesn't stand for anything since the corporate takeover. n/t

[bvar22]

207. We Reformed the Democratic Party the Old Fashioned Way!

We BOUGHT It!

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

[willhe]

199. Democrats aka New Whigs

When President Obama was elected everyone in the news was talking about how he turned a lot of red states blue and that the republicans were a dying breed. So what did the democrats do? They turned into a bunch of chicken shit cowards and are doing everything against their own base. I know republicans had no choice but to kill the niggra agenda or be accused of being a niggra lover but it makes you wonder about democrats in office as well.

[CLANG]

204. Freepers are out in full force

[SlingBlade]

206. Freeps and Republicans are the LEAST of our problems

We've got a full fledged identity crisis that must be addressed.

And neither did FDR !

[Dinger]

213. Thanks saracat

:)

[Nikki Stone1]

233. This is a post from someone who has actually run campaigns in the party

When she questions the party she has worked for all her life, something is really wrong.

[Alexander]

234. Not you, lilimuffins. You've always hated Obama, as you gleefully post on that other website.

You are here to stir shit up, just low enough to be under the radar. I doubt you're a Democrat at all.

Thankfully many DUers are on to you.