Drunk in public and packing heat

[n2doc]

Sure, open-carry advocates, you can flash guns in public all you want. Just don't be drunk when you do it.

A 29-year-old man who is well-known to the local cops for his imbibing found that out the hard way in San Bruno.

Christian George Gonzalez was allegedly plastered when he ambled up to two uniformed San Bruno police officers just after midnight Feb. 12 at a 7-Eleven parking lot, said Steve Wagstaffe, San Mateo County's chief deputy district attorney.

He approached Officer Jack Boland and asked, "Jack, want to check me?" Wagstaffe said. Boland and Gonzalez have "known each other for many years," the prosecutor said, because of Gonzalez's predilection for alcohol.

Gonzalez had a holstered .40-caliber handgun in plain view on his belt, Wagstaffe said. The officers confirmed that the gun wasn't loaded but that Gonzalez quite visibly was, because he "stumbled backwards and fell into the patrol car," the prosecutor said. Gonzalez was arrested on suspicion of being drunk in public and was arraigned on the charge Monday.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/crime/detail?blogid=144&entry_id=59166

[paulsby]

1. well, among other things

carrying a gun in your hip on a holster is poorly described as "flashing a gun".

also note that it depends on the juridisction ( i realize this was written in california)

WA state for instance has no drunk in public statute (it is not illegal to be drunk in public) nor are there statutes prohibiting carry while under the influence of liquor.

[On the Road]

3. OK, But in Terms of Writing Legislation,

you can argue persuasively for open-carry laws and against public drunkenness laws, but do you really want to argue that being publicly drunk and carrying a handgun should be allowed?

[paulsby]

4. i agree with you

i think it's a hole in our laws that we DON'T have a law prohibiting carry (openly or otherwise) while in public and impaired by liquor

of course in nannystate WA legislators are too busy passing laws criminalizing online poker and writing unenforced legislation prohibiting smoking within 25 ft of a building, to actually write good legislation

[TheWraith]

6. Most states have laws against being drunk while carrying.

Washington, where paulsby is, is the only exception that I know about, although there may be others. Or loopholes, like in Cali where you can't open-carry a loaded weapon, only an unloaded one.

[reggie the dog]

7. In washington state you can carry a gun while drunk in public

yet they would put someone like me in jail for smoking a joint in public outside of seattle....

[paulsby]

9. not really

most cops i know would just dispose of the joint in your presence and give you a verbal warning

a few would give you a criminal cite

to actually get taken to jail for smoking a joint is pretty rare.

basically, it might happen if you were dealing with a total fuzz nutted rookie who needed the experience/stat OR you were a major dickhead

seattle city council basically formalized what was already essentially de facto policy for most street cops

i can state that in 12 yrs of law enforcement here in WA state i have never booked anybody for that, and i can't remember the last time i saw another cop do it.

i think the least amount i've ever booked for was about an ounce

there's the letter of the law, and then there's the way it actually happens.

the VAST majority of minor pot possession cases get dealt with summarily at the scene

they of course never make the police blotter or the case docket.

i am sure there are some jurisdictions where it's more common, but in the three states i have worked, it's pretty rare

[reggie the dog]

10. thanks for filling me in on the actual practice

How do you feel about not being able to arrest a drunk person stumbling around with their gun? I know you can only enforce the laws as they are written but I am wondering if you would personally want that law changed.

[paulsby]

12. well, most people stumbling around witha gun

in WA state aren't carrying openly so i would never know about it.

however, if i found a guy falling down drunk and in possession of a gun, i would definitely consider taking it for safekeeping.

i can do that, without filing any criminal charges.

also, just because it is not ILLEGAL does not mean that it could not be a factor in revoking his CCW. i actually have NO idea if it would be factor.

we have taken guns from people before for safekeeping where no crime has occurred.

the most difficult thing though would be GETTING the gun from him, since he is committing no crime, it's not like you would draw down on the guy, etc.

if was truly intoxicated and unable to care for himself (vs. merely kind of drunk) he can be "detox'd" which means you call an ambulance to take him to a detox facility. it's not a criminal thang, it's a protective custody type thang, but it has ot be a lot more than just legally impaired. it has to be where you can provide facts that they are so intoxicated that they cannot reasonably account for their own safety. and of course if you are detoxing somebody, you would take the gun for safekeeping. god knows the ambulance crew doesn't want it in there.

i do agree that it's a loophole in the law, though. people should NOT drink while carrying

i actually know a state rep. he's a very cool guy (despite being a repub) and i might bring it up with him next time i talk to him.

fwiw, in WA state, it is written into the law where you can seize a gun from a person who is DUI and carrying.

[reggie the dog]

19. thanks for the insight

Do you think there is less crime in your state because people can carry to protect themselves? I grew up in Illinois, one of 2 states that still dont allow carrying of firearms, and my grandfather, father, my uncles, cousins brother and myself would all like the right to carry a pistol in our pocket but no, in chicago we arent even supposed to have a pistol in our homes, that is reserved for criminals...

[MattBaggins]

23. "people should not drink while carrying"

Including off duty police officers?

[Atticus]

8. I started hunting when I was about 8 years old with a shotgun handed down from

my granddad to my dad to me. Currently, I don't really remember how many pistols, rifles and shotguns I own. I'd have to go count.

BUT,---packing a pistol visibly in public is accurately described as "flashing a gun" and this guy's behavior was ridiculous, inexcusable and very detrimental to the public's perception of gun owners.

I don't know this guy, but he sounds like an irresponsible ass. There is "legal" and then there is "smart". And, I, like most reasonable people, find it absolutely ridiculous that it is legal ANYWHERE to "carry" while shit-faced.

Would you behave like that?

[SteveM]

13. Crappy behavior, but he did not "flash" a gun...

His weapon was in plain view at all times; the act of "flashing" means to intentionally reveal a weapon to other(s), and presumes the weapon was concealed. This is akin to the legalese of "brandishing," specifically outlawed in many jurisdictions, but this idiot wasn't doing that either.

I would like to see a practical law which would make this kind of thing illegal. Any suggestions?

[Cirque du So-What]

2. In my youth, there was a guy in my town

who frequented the sleazy-bar district with two holstered Super Colt .38 revolvers on a belt around his waist. He also wore two paper respirator-type masks with a thick layer of wood-floor glue between them over his nose & mouth. He walked the streets of that neighborhood decked-out that way - our own homegrown version of 'bad, bad Leroy Brown.' It was common knowledge that the police were scared of him, and several years passed without arrest or conviction.

...until the day that he was driving on the freeway and swerved in front of my friend, who claims to this day that he didn't make any sort of provocative gesture. My friend exited the freeway and came to a stoplight. Glue-gun guy stopped behind him, got out of his car, and unloaded a .25 Beretta semiautomatic into my friend; it was fortunate that he had given up the .38s some time earlier. Glue-gun guy got back in his car & drove off, then my friend got out of his car, staggered to the road, was scooped up by a good samaritan & delivered to the hospital a mile up the road. My friend was shot twice through one lung, but his injuries were taken care of in time and he made a full recovery.

I don't know if there's even a moral to this anecdote, but I hope it serves as a cautionary tale as to just how ineffective a police force can be in assessing & addressing threats to public safety. Even today - some 30 years after my friend was shot - the police in the town where I now live are notorious for ineffectiveness in addressing a serious problem with drugs & weapons. The corruption is so rampant that I've lost count of the number of police officers who have been busted by the feds for involvement in these activities. Whenever a large-scale drug and/or weapons bust occurs, it's inevitably led by a contingent of police from the nearest major metro area - ones who haven't been bought off by the local criminal gangs.

Well...I'm ramblin'. I don't know what this has to do with the OP, which reminded me of long-ago events. I'm fucking clueless as to a solution, so pay me no mind.

[pipoman]

16. Have you been drinking again? Hopefully you aren't carrying a gun...

;)

[TheWraith]

5. Idiot. He's lucky that he wasn't in another state.

In most places, carrying while drunk is a crime. But in California you can't open carry a loaded weapon due to a law Reagan signed to try and disarm the Black Panthers. So he (narrowly) escapes charges for carrying a loaded weapon while... well, loaded.

[cabluedem]

11. the myth of the law abiding gun owner. drunk as usual.

[SteveM]

14. Drive-by as usual.

[reggie the dog]

20. I still have a pistol or 2 in the USA

I know I dont live in the states any more but technically i still own a gun that my dad is holding for me and I havent had a drop of alcohol since july of 2001

[old mark]

15. "Packing Heat"? Please! nt

[deacon]

17. Ohhhhhhh, I thought this was an announcement of the new GOP slogan for 2010, Never mind. n/t

[proteus_lives]

18. Open carry isn't "flashing".

And yes, it's one of many things like driving, paperwork, posting on DU and golf, you shouldn't do drunk.

[reggie the dog]

21. drunk golf can be quite amusing

or at least drunk driving range action, the only LEGAL drunk driving around!

[Statistical]

22. That was bad!