Michael Moore on Keith O show with Odonnel - he says this bill

[2Design]

will not help the women obama mention in his speech in ohio in dennis territory because it doesn't even kick in for people like her for four years - Michael wrote a check and gave it to odonnel on air www.freeclinics.us keith olberman sponsored

[2Design]

1. Michael says he thanks Dennis because he got it right - this

lady, Obama is using for his own interests, will not be covered by this new health bill for at least four years. She could be dead by then

[G_j]

2. Moore was great as usual

gave him a nice block of time

[ProSense]

3. That his argument against the bill: " it doesn't even kick in for people like her for four years"

What a crock!

What about the billions for community centers that are in the bill?

[grantcart]

7. Or more to the point if you vote against the bill then nobody will

get additional coverage in 4 years, and it could be 20.


The list of previous no's that are now yes includes Dr. Dean, and all of the progressives minus MM DK and FDL.

[slipslidingaway]

12. You need mandates to expand community centers and Medicaid? n/t

[ProSense]

14. What does that have to do with his excuse about time lines? n/t

[havocmom]

54. He also pointed out that even after the four year wait, insurers can raise her rate drastically

She still wouldn't have insurance.

Sorry to bust up your one note serenade, but he did not just have one 'excuse'.

[slipslidingaway]

91. Too funny ... You are the one who mentioned them first. n/t

[bvar22]

15. Oh, yes...The Community Health Centers.

Wasn't that the Republican argument for WHY we don't need a Public Option...way back at the beginning of the nightmare march steadily toward Republicanism?
.
.
.
Why YES IT WAS!

http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2010/02/28/high-risk-pools-a-precarious-pillar-of-republican-reform/

http://www.neighborhoodlink.com/article/Community/Health_Care_Reform_Republican

Talk about pitching Republican Talking Points on DU.
:thumbsdown:

[2Design]

25. perhaps seeing the show and keith asking people to donate to freeclinics

might help you understand the context

[ProSense]

26. What uninformed nonsense.

Build on an enduring model of primary care

[bvar22]

37. Thats exactly what the Republicans said ,

and the Democrats ridiculed before Obama made his deal to ditch the Public Option.
Looks like the Republicans won another issue from Obama, doesn't it.

NOW, Community Health Centers are the savior of this mostly Republican Health Insurance Scam.

bvar22
Cursed with a memory

[bvar22]

55. The really diabolical part of the Community Health Care issue...

...is that we already HAVE them.
We don't need the Republicans OR the Democrats to get them.
And CHCs are certainly NOT a valid reason for supporting this bill.
.
.
However, I must admit to some awe.
Including something we already have in this abomination of a Health Insurance Bill, and then hyping it as a reason to vote FOR the bill is a brilliant piece of Machiavellian Marketing for people with NO sense of shame.

[laughingliberal]

71. +1000 nt

[Forkboy]

62. As soon as Prosense plays the nonsense card, something is up.

Like the sun coming up in the East, some things can be counted on as universal truths.

[freddie mertz]

90. I think "nonsense" in this context means "you are getting too close to the truth."

It's like clockwork.

Sigh.

[fascisthunter]

102. that's the problem with Orwellian Speak

[freddie mertz]

103. Indeed. Like calling this cynically promoted privatization scheme...

"Health Care Reform."

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Actually, I think he's

in favor of getting this thing passed, and then continuing to fix it.

It doesn't do near enough of what needs to be done. It's highly flawed. But some is better than none.

(If I heard him right).

[eleny]

4. K&R

The fine to the insurance companies for denying coverage will be $100 a day.

[PSzymeczek]

30. $100 a day

but it's still nothing.

[eleny]

33. Thanks! I corrected my mistake...

Might as well be nothing since the insurance companies make so much profit they'll hardly feel it.

[dflprincess]

49. Petty cash for them

and only if they're caught doing it and someone actually holds them responsible. I won't hold my breath.

[Nite Owl]

5. Michael also said that

they are not telling us the whole truth about this bill. They sure aren't. This bill won't help her now and then the deductibles are still there.
$100 a day fine if they refuse to cover someone? What a sad joke.

[virgogal]

6. He wrote the check on the air? A bit show-offy IMHO.

[2Design]

8. I thought it was a GOOD example of support - I will take all the show off dollars

you want to apply to freeclinics.us

[haikugal]

17. He Took Action

What I'd call a roll model. I didn't know the church lady came to DU.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deerheadgal]

9. I'm sure you'll write a big fat check without fanfare...right?

[2Design]

10. tks - I always don't get these people who put down people for giving

even if it is show - like Sean Penn in Haitti - I have seen some really snarky comments on him too

[eleny]

11. No, he just handed it to O'Donnell and asked that others also donate...

Keith asked that people donate to the free clinics in lieu of flowers in memory of his dad. So Moore got the ball rolling.

Since it seems you didn't see it, it was a nice moment, imo.

[Raineyb]

51. So what? It's not like people don't already know that Michael Moore has money.

Your complaint is a bit nit-picky even for a Virgo.

[Raine]

78. You're a sorehead

x(

[slipslidingaway]

13. Thanks knr nt

[sandnsea]

16. Those clinics treat leukemia?

No I didn't think so. Michael's check will never do anything for Natoma, not now, not in 4 years, not ever. Free clinics don't treat disease.

[The Gunslinger]

19. I guess Moore should personally fund Healthcare for all.

[2Design]

20. his check was for free clinics for people who need help now - keith

asked that people give to freeclinics instead of flowers

[sandnsea]

32. Ah, I see, completely different

I got the impression from the OP that Michael Moore was donating to free clinics to help the woman with leukemia.

[ProSense]

21. Yeah, but doing this on TV makes it appear so. n/t

[haikugal]

27. To Who?

[2Design]

28. perhaps seeing the show and keith asking people to donate to freeclinics

might help you understand this in context

[City Lights]

34. No it didn't.

It was clear to anyone watching that the check Moore wrote to freeclinics was in memory of Olbermann's dad. In lieu of flowers, Olbermann requested that donations be made to freeclinics.

[haikugal]

23. Neither Do Emergency Rooms

Health care provides for people. The free clinics provide health care for those who can't afford to go to the doctor, dentist or eye doctor..spit on that if you must. They also screen patients for serious disease.

[sandnsea]

31. But subsidized insurance does

But let's all go gaga because Michael Moore wrote a check.

Whatever.

[2Design]

35. OMG - sorry you hate Michael Moore for bring truth to the light - junk is junk

[Raineyb]

52. Subsidized insurance with a 60% actuarial value?

She'll still go broke trying to get well.

[sandnsea]

64. At least she'll get well

Clearly there are an awful lot of people who have never needed medical treatment and had no money or insurance.

The original complaints a year ago were that they weren't covering dental and optical. If it had a 100% actuarial, half of DU would still be complaining because the truth is they don't want our government to succeed at anything.

[Raineyb]

70. Based on what she's still have to come out of pocket and she doesn't have the

money. You act as though this mandate to buy insurance will magically have the money for said insurance (not to mention the deductibles and co-pays) appear in people's pockets. No money = no care no matter how much insurance you have. Most medical bankruptcies occur with people who have insurance. For you to pretend that insurance = health care is either willfully blind or disingenuous.

[sandnsea]

73. Insurance = Health Care

It does. I really don't know why you're pretending it doesn't. 90% of doctors and hospitals will accept any patient with an insurance card. The few that won't are caring for the 1% in NYC and LA.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

81. Health Care. Doctor. Medicine. Cure.

Try getting that without a little card. Health Care. Do you know what it's like to have a disease that could kill you -- and not know it? What it's like to have to walk around with injuries and have no doctor treat you? Do you honestly think people in that position give a crap about 20% or 40% or how much a deductible is? They just want to see a doctor and get well. This bill will provide that.

That's IT. That's ALL. There isn't anything else to talk about at this point. The opportunity to make this bill better was squandered. It's over. We pass this and get people health care, or we let people die. That's all there is to it.

[Marr]

94. Insurance most certainly does not equal health care.

The ridiculous costs, coupled with the insurance industry's natural incentive to deny care end up forcing people to choose between paying for insurance and paying for health care.

Here's an example. I have a friend who was supposed to be screened every three months for a life-threatening condition that could return. Her deductible was $5000 or so, and her insurance company reliably denied payment on literally everything. She had to pay out of pocket every time, in other words. But since she was also paying the insurance company (literally for providing rejection letters and nothing else), she could only afford to get screened every 8 months.

Now her condition is back, and further along than it should've been because she wasn't screened properly. And of course, there's still treatment to pay for... which she can't come close to affording. She's crossing her fingers, hoping the insurance company will actually pay for her treatment. On top of all that, the insurance company raised her premiums because she's such a 'risky case', even though they've paid exactly nothing to this point. She hasn't got the money, period-- which is probably what they're counting on.

For-profit insurance companies *are* the problem here. They're the obstacle between people and health care. Somewhere along the line, this debate shifted from, "how do we provide health care to everyone" to "how do we assure that everyone has a private insurance plan?", and it's just 180 degrees wrong.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

18. Obama doesn't care.

It made for some good speechifying.

Now, and ONLY NOW, after almost everything "Democratic" has been removed from the bill,
and after giving the Republicans everything they wanted,
NOW, Obama takes to the Bully Pulpit and demands that we support what is essentially a Republican Health Insurance SCAM.

DLC Mission Accomplished!!!
:patriot:
(I wonder if Bush is still using that old banner?
The White House could use it at the signing ceremony.)

[The Gunslinger]

24. But we must be good sheep now and support it

because it is the Democratic plan. And we must bash any Democrat who is against it. A political win is the most important thing.

[2Design]

29. Gosh there are a lot of snarky people on DU lately n/t

[quiet.american]

36. For the record, Moore misspoke. He is not correct.

This is not to "slam" Moore or anything like that, because I like him, too. This is just to set the record straight.

He misspoke. Immediate coverage for those with pre-existing conditions *does not* apply only to children in the period before 2014.

Given that she has already not been covered for 2 months, if the bill were signed this week, Natoma *would not* have to wait more than 4 more months after the bill is signed to obtain coverage, and the law would not allow her to be charged higher premiums based on her pre-existing condition. The bill states that if you have not had insurance for the previous six months and have a pre-existing condition on the date that you sign up for coverage, you are eligible for the temporary high risk pool which will be in existence until January 2014, and then those in the pool would be transitioned over to an Exchange plan.

Here is the language in the Senate bill as already passed (the language in its entirety can be read in HR 3590, starting on page 45):

SEC. 1101. IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INSURANCE FOR UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS WITH A PREEXISTING CONDITION.

excerpt:
(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall establish
a temporary high risk health insurance pool program to provide health insurance coverage for eligible individuals
during the period beginning on the date on which such program is established and ending on January 1, 2014.

excerpt:
(d) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.—An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible individual for purposes of this section if such individual—
(1) is a citizen or national of the United States or is lawfully present in the United States (as determined in accordance with section 1411);
(2) has not been covered under creditable coverage (as defined in section 2701(c)(1) of the Public Health Service Act as in effect on the date of enactment of this Act) during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage through the high risk pool; and
(3) has a pre-existing condition, as determined in a manner consistent with guidance issued by the
Secretary.

edited for typos

[Kalun D]

38. SHEESH

"""SEC. 1101. IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INSURANCE FOR UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS WITH A PREEXISTING CONDITION.

excerpt:
(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall establish
a temporary high risk health insurance pool program to provide health insurance coverage for eligible individuals
during the period beginning on the date on which such program is established and ending on January 1, 2014.

excerpt:
(d) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.—An individual shall be deemed to be an eligible individual for purposes of this section if such individual—
(1) is a citizen or national of the United States or is lawfully present in the United States (as determined in accordance with section 1411);
(2) has not been covered under creditable coverage (as defined in section 2701(c)(1) of the Public Health Service Act as in effect on the date of enactment of this Act) during the 6-month period prior to the date on which such individual is applying for coverage through the high risk pool; and
(3) has a pre-existing condition, as determined in a manner consistent with guidance issued by the
Secretary."""


And this thing is 2700 pages long? What a farce.

[quiet.american]

39. "Ctrl+F" is my friend, and can be yours, too. nt

[dflprincess]

50. Great. So she's eligible for a "high risk insurance pool"

so long as she can afford it or qualifies for a premium subsidy. But there's no help for the out of pocket expenses and so there's no guarantee that she will get the care she needs.

[mzmolly]

58. And there is no guarantee she will not get the help she needs.

Why not TRY to help people like her? Why not see if this legislation will do what it's designed to? Why not vote yes in hopes for the best and repair it as needed down the road?

[Zhade]

67. Have you ever read a newspaper? Are you unaware of the drastic rise in insurance costs?

Are you seriously gullible enough to think that such gouging won't continue after we're mandated -- FORCED -- to buy insurance from the same companies that deny care to fatten their corporate bottom line?

[mzmolly]

95. If you've read a newspaper lately you'd be aware of the fact that costs will

increase by at least 50% in the next few years if we don't act NOW.

[quiet.american]

59. Yes, the premiums for those in the high risk pool are subsidized --

As far as out-of-pocket, the bill limits that to the current year level - 2010 is $5,950/individual. That does seem high to me, but if I were without insurance and looking at having to sell my home to pay a fraction of my medical expenses, I'd take it. As for quality of care, the high risk pool plans created by non-profits or states have to submit an application to the Health & Human Services Secretary to qualify to participate.

Alright, that's all I got on this one.

[EFerrari]

66. People who have lost their homes won't have that option.

And the poor -- I'm thinking about the article over the weekend that talked about single mothers of color with their $100 of wealth.

Not everyone has real estate to sell and many who do are underwater.

[quiet.american]

68. I'm not being glib, but perhaps Medicaid would be an option in situations like that?

[EFerrari]

74. I know you're not being glib, quiet.american.

:)

The eligibility for Medicaid varies from state to state. I myself better not need it any time soon because I fall right into the ditch between can't afford insurance and don't qualify for Medicaid. When I was a teenager, I asked an older friend who drove without insurance what in the world he would do if he got into an accident. He said, people who don't have insurance can't have accidents.

[quiet.american]

75. :) Where you are, and what your friend said - I hear that.

Been there. And am still there, come to think of it.

[dflprincess]

101. The premiums are only subsidized if income is low enough

not everyone in the high risk pool with qualify for a full or even partial subsidy. And $5,950 is damn high I don't know many people who have a spare $6,000 laying around these days (max out of pockets for families is $10K in the House bill).

There is growing evidence that the high out of pocket plans (aka "Consumer Driven Health Plans") that are currently running wind up costing more in the long run. People tend to put off care if they can't afford to pay for it out of pocket until their situation cannot be ignored; those with chronic conditions cut back on their meds and check ups.

Neither the House nor Senate bill will change this. We'll still have people paying for "coverage" but not getting care.

[mzmolly]

57. Excellent info.

Please post a thread.

Thanks very very much for clearing this up Q.A. :hi:

[quiet.american]

60. Cheers, mzmolly. nt

[mzmolly]

96. Cheers to you too Q.A.

Thanks for being one of the few here to provide accurate info and not hop on the popular, baseless fear/smear/hollow talking point bandwagon. :hi:

[ChicagoSuz219]

65. If I'm reading this right...

...then my daughter would qualify, as well! YAY!!

[quiet.american]

69. That's good news - hope you'll keep us updated about how it goes. nt

[ChicagoSuz219]

72. That's very sweet...

She was born with a hole in her heart (VSD) that was supposed to close in 3 months. She'll be 25 & it still hasn't closed! Her heart is slightly enlarged because it's overworked. They like to monitor it every so often. She was on her Dad's insurance 'til she graduated college in '08. Under HCR, she would still have had insurance for another year or so. She's been without it since graduation. She seems okay... still, it's nice to be reassured. She wouldn't qualify for private insurance because of the pre-existing condition... even if all her 'extra' money wasn't going to pay off college loans. HCR would make a huge difference!

One interesting thing: in Illinois, she's entitled to a 'pink' card (I think it might be Medicaid). She can only use it for women's stuff... pap smears, breast exams, birth control, etc. Planned Parenthood accepts it. At least, she's covered for some things. No 'red' card for heart exams, though...

I appreciate your concern & good thoughts! She's a great kid... :-)

[Political Heretic]

82. She's shoved into a shit pile catch all POS for four years. I don't think MM was confused on that

I didn't get the impression that MM was unaware of this provision nor do I think he "misspoke."

Insurance companies are allowed to deny based on preexisting conditions as usual for the next four fucking years.

So she will continue to be denied by any insurance company she might choose. But hey good news cause she'll be dumped into the same catch-all dumping ground of shit insurance and no choice.

[quiet.american]

88. Or -- the medical bills she doesn't know how she'll pay now, she'll have help paying. nt

[upi402]

40. Obama lied- all that crap about backing working people

He backs the corporations and puts the burden on OUR backs! He has no shame. And the gall he had -to rub Kucinich's nose in his phony, grandstanding rhetoric! I have ZERO respect for that man now.

Kick -Countdown on now.

[quiet.american]

42. Have to say again, Moore was 100% incorrect in his assertion about HCR tonight.

My reply #36 has the actual provision that would have Natoma covered again by June 2010.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

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[upi402]

48. Kusha

:fistbump:

[goclark]

53. Thank you very much for that important reminder nt

[Political Heretic]

84. Except that its garbage.

[quiet.american]

87. Still spreading love and joy everywhere, I see. nt

[Political Heretic]

83. Every private insurance company would be allowed to continuing denying her coverage for four years

But, without having any fucking choice in matter, she can rejoice because she'll get dumped in the same POS catch-all pool with all the other "rejects" in the interim.

That's fucking fantastic. :eyes:

[quiet.american]

86. If that's what you really think of people, what else can be said. nt

[Political Heretic]

89. It's not what I think of people, its what insurance thinks of people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I am glad to give money to them

but I will still send Keith a card to MSNBC address... my dad has been in and out of hospitals in the last two years too. So we share some of that experience.

Yes he is doing ok right now... but I know the day is not that far off.

[mzmolly]

56. It kicks in in 90 days. See quiet.american's post above.

:kick:

[Political Heretic]

85. Every private insurance company would be allowed to continuing denying her coverage for four years

Being through into catch-all shitpile pool insurance against your will is not exactly something to be proud of.

[mzmolly]

99. Wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7924841&mesg_id=7925228

"SEC. 1101. IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INSURANCE FOR UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS WITH A PREEXISTING CONDITION."

[ecstatic]

61. I hope it kicks in sooner, but having it kick in *never*

is a much worse alternative.

[western mass]

80. If you don't give $1 billion to Mr. Money Baggs

Little Suzy doesn't get her asthma medicine.

The cynicism and corruption of Dem politicians who would call this kind of extortion "Health Care reform" is unbelievable.

[bvar22]

93. Thatys exactly what it is....extortion.

Wall Street Billionaire Bailout Redux,
brought to us by the very same people who brought us the above.

At this point, anyone who trusts the Democratic Party Leadership is a damned SUCKER.

[Marr]

97. I have to agree.

The apologists for this garbage really amaze me. If Bush had pushed this bill, they would've been up in arms at the institutionalization of this corrupt, obsolete industry. But put a "D" on it, and they lap it up. It's pathetic.

I also agree about this being a repeat of the bank bailouts. Here's yet another industry set to collapse beneath the weight of it's own corrupt practices, and Team Obama steps in at the last minute to save them.

[bvar22]

100. The Health Insurance Industry....

...is the incestuous 1st Cousin of Wall Street.

The Health Insurance Industry was simply next in line for their Trillion Dollars,
and Obama and the "Centrist" Democrats delivered.

[Echo In Light]

92. k/r

[mzmolly]

98. Reiterating what QA said, Moore is WRONG. 90 days is the time frame for pre-existing

conditions.

[Vinca]

104. 90 days is a high risk pool which will probably cost a small fortune.

It will be unsubsidized and if it is anything like high risk pools run by states, it will only cover certain, specific conditions. We'll see. I hope it's a workable alternative for people like Natoma - and me - but I'm not optimistic. Our state high risk pool is incredibly expensive.

[mzmolly]

105. It will be greatly subsidized.

I too hope it will work well for you and Natoma asap Vinca. :hi:

[Vinca]

106. I don't think the bill includes subsidies for the high risk pool

that is supposed to be occur in 90 days. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think any subsidies kick in until 2014.