Health Care Reform - It's NOT all or nothing.

[Cronus Protagonist]

If this bill doesn't pass, the incremental approach will put in place its most popular components, without its most nasty (mandatory insurance company customers). Health Insurance Reform will not die for ever, as it will get even more urgent in the coming years as the Insurance companies screw us ever harder, ever costlier until they get what's coming to them.

So, DU, let's kill the idea that it's now or never, this bill or nothing, for NN years, or ever. That's just total bullshit. there are other ways. There are better ways. Don't let the anti-Kucinich people use that red herring any more, good people of DU. It's just total BULLSHIT.

And the fact that they are using that canard as a stick should tell you something about them, and call up a few questions in your own mind.

That is all. Peace out.

:yourock:

[shraby]

1. I've watched health care be brought up and die on the vine

since I was old enough to pay attention way back in the 1960s. That is over 40 years ago..trust me, if it doesn't go this time, it will be another 40 years before it ever gets this far again. If not now, when. I'll be long dead before another 40 years go by.

[frazzled]

2. Your analysis = Republican talking points

Incrementalism. Just past a few components.

Sorry, but you're just dead wrong. No point trying to convince you, because you clearly have faith that something better will come down the pike. That's like believing that suffering in this life is okay, because you're going to get to sit on a cloud and play a harp in heaven some day.

The reality is ... no one is going to touch any aspect of health care if this fails. Not for a long time.

[Cronus Protagonist]

10. Now that's just not true

These are facts. The regulatory components of the bill can all be passed piecemeal. It may not be optimal, but they can be passed. And I never redistribute Republican talking points. You're talking out your ass.

And I don't like your fatalism. If it doesn't pass, I'll be strongly supporting the regulation and control of insurance companies, as will thousands of others. I'll still be pushing for Medicare for all and it is simply NOT true that, if this bill fails, there will be no other for 20 years. At least I have a plan for what happens when the current leadership fails, your plan is to push a weak, fucked up bill with a poison pill (which we will own forever - mandatory fees and fines) in it now and then kick back and give up if it fails. Entrench insurance companies and their profits into the system and then give up if you don't get it. Weak. Very weak.

I so wish we had stronger leadership.

[NorthCarolina]

13. If you are seeking GOP/DLC talking points, check out any of the several recent anti-DK threads. eom

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. The only reason it's "now or never" is that the Dems will fold if it doesn't pass

There's no reason why they can't try again with a better bill.

You'd think there was a Constitutional amendment against revisiting a subject twice.

[MisterP]

5. same stampeding as on TARP: "if we don't do this, the economy will collapse and millions will lose

their jobs! it's worth the giveaway!"
fact is, it's the same ConservaDems and internetters claiming that in both cases!

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. That may be the heart of it

We need some leadership and much less cowering.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Good luck to you and the Citizen United decision then.

Hello Republican rule for the next 30 years,
starting January 2011!

[inna]

6. rec'd - mostly because you were not being mean to Kucinich.

so there.

[patrice]

7. Small Bussinesses NEED HCR to happen. It will.

[KharmaTrain]

9. So Be It...

You want the status quo, you may just get it...and if this is the case then this country deserves what it has. The polarization...the my way or the highway and sanctimonious posturing from many sides on this issue shows how next to impossible a consensus on reform will ever be.

OK...so the bill fails...then what? How do you propose getting single payer or any "reform" done? Through throwing tandrums? Armed revolution? When I hear those who want to scrap what small measures of good are currently within grasp for some idealistic plan that stands little chance of ever passing, I would like to know what strategy they have to change the mind and the political culture. Not talking points or platitudes...a specific plan of action in how to win elections or make whatever changes are needed where the votes for single payer or even public option are possible.

[supernova]

11. I've said the same CP

If this doesn't pass, we still carry on. If it does pass, it doesn't mean that we back away from pushing for single payer.

It just means that we move on down the road. It means that peoples' circumstances will get more dire, sadly. Maybe including mine. It will get ever more Dickensian. At some point, those circumstances and our message of UHC will meet. And we need to be ready for that. If we give up after this vote, regardless of the vote, then we will make it much harder on ourselves. We need not to do that.

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. You said it better than I

:)