Idaho lawmakers approve bill to let state taxes be paid in silver

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

Idaho lawmakers are backing a plan that would allow state tax bills to be paid down with silver medallions instead of cash.

The bill approved Monday is intended to encourage the use of silver as a form of currency and reinvigorate Idaho's silver mining industry, which has been in decline for decades.

Athol Republican Rep. Phil Hart told the House State Affairs Committee that consumers should rely less on money printed by the federal government because inflation will diminish its value. His bill reignites a long-standing debate about the value of paper money not backed by commodities.

Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/03/15/1118263/lawmakers-pushing-for-taxes-being.html

[FarCenter]

1. William Jennings Bryan take 2

[depakid]

3. Free Silver!

[Tunkamerica]

2. Wouldn't that imply that the smart course is to pay your bill w/ cash

and save your silver?

[Hekate]

4. I think "smart" has nothing to do with this. Anyone who can actually find real silver coins...

... will be able to make a fortune off of hobbyist coin collectors, so paying taxes with silver would be pretty wasteful for them. There are very few real silver coins in circulation any more -- in fact I can't remember the last time I saw one that wasn't really a "copper sandwich."

Hekate

[jmowreader]

9. Never heard of a Silver Eagle, I assume

In 1986, the US Mint introduced the American Eagle bullion coins--one troy ounce of either silver, gold or platinum. Officially a Silver Eagle is worth $1, a Gold Eagle $50 and a Platinum Eagle $100, but they actually sell for whatever the metal in them is worth.

There is a mint in Coeur d'Alene that has the capability of making silver bullion coinage, so they might be gearing up to produce some sort of one-ounce silver coin that can be used to pay your taxes.

[Art_from_Ark]

18. Silver Eagles are not circulating money

No one (except kids raiding their father's coin collection) uses Silver Eagles as circulating money, because (as you mentioned) their face value is a measly dollar, while their intrinsic value (plus premium) is about $16.

[jmowreader]

20. Exactly, they are not circulating money

Ten to one if you decided to pay your taxes in silver you'd have to go to the county clerk to do it, and they'd use the spot silver price on the day you paid them as the exchange value--if the spot price is $16.00 per ounce and you owe $160 in taxes, remit ten Silver Eagles.

I see some risk here--silver goes down, too.

[Art_from_Ark]

22. Another problem is that Uncle Sam's Eagles carry a hefty premium

Often 2 or 3 dollars above spot. I think this is one reason why they are proposing issuing their own "medallions" (better known in collector/investor circles as "silver rounds"), which have been around in one form or another since the 1960s.

[jmowreader]

32. Probably from this place

http://www.sunshinemint.com/Bullion.htm

[Art_from_Ark]

33. Another advantage of silver "medallions"

is that the state could probably sell them to collectors for a premium over the spot price.

[Cleita]

12. I have a lot of them from the early last century that my dad saved.

I have been able to hang on to them all this time in spite of hard times when I was tempted to cash them in.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. I am curious-- what sorts of silver coins from "early last century"

do you have?
Depending on their denomination, date, mint mark, condition, etc., they could be quite valuable-- or they could be like the Barber dimes/quarters/halves (1898-1916) that I bought a few months ago for 12- 14 times face value.

[Cleita]

30. Silver dollars. None are in mint condition and they are worn from use before

they got stashed sometimes in the 1940's. They are worth whatever silver is worth on the market on any given day. I have had them appraised. I keep them as a curiosity and in case I may ever need some cash desperately someday. Most likely I will leave them to my heirs to dispose of as they choose.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. It would be better if you could inform yourself or your heirs of their actual worth

While they might just be common silver dollars in common condition (worth $15-16 at today's prices), there could be something special in the bunch. If they were collected in the '40s,then there is a chance that there might be something worthwhile in the bunch, since collecting silver dollars with just Liberty's head on them didn't really become too popular until the 1960s, when talk started circulating about removing silver from US coinage.

Now I'm curious as to who appraised your coins, since many "appraisers" only give a blanket value without considering individual coins.

[anigbrowl]

26. Heh, how true!

[Art_from_Ark]

29. It depends

If you bought silver at $15/ounce, and use it when silver is $17/ounce, then it would be like getting a 13% discount on state taxes. Of course, if the price of silver at tax payment time was less than what you paid for it, it would make more sense to pay with cash.

[nemo137]

5. The article is unclear.

Are they creating medallions for the purposes of paying taxes? If so, how are they getting around Article I, Section 8 & 10 issues here?

[Newsjock]

8. They don't need no steenkin' U.S. Constitution

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/mar/04/idaho-lawmakers-mull-plan-mint-silver-medallions/

Idaho could soon begin minting its own silver currency.

Silver medallions, proposed by state Rep. Phil Hart, are being pushed as a way to jump-start Idaho’s economy and could be used instead of U.S. dollars to pay state taxes.

“There’s a lot of interest in the state of Idaho right now for this kind of thing,” Hart, R-Athol, told the House State Affairs Committee on Thursday.

[Art_from_Ark]

24. Up until the mid-19th century

several private mints produced their own gold (sometimes copper, rarely silver) coins, which were accepted as coin of the realm as long as they met Uncle Sam's standards. That practice basically was ended when private companies that were issuing tokens in base metal (copper) and giving them out in change, refused to redeem them for Uncle Sam's currency.

[nemo137]

31. Thanks, I'd known there were private banknotes

but I didn't know that there was coinage issued, too.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. It is amusing to note that BOTH Wikipedia and...

Conservapedia think the idea of silver money is stupid. Even though the "bimetallism" would now be silver vs. Fed notes (since nobody's on the gold standard any more) Gresham's Law has not been repealed.

But, hey, just like the 1890s, anything for the silver mines...

[FarCenter]

7. Its not clear why platinum or palladium wouldn't be more suitable for coinage

They are more valuable than gold per ounce.

They also have more industrial uses.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Why not diamonds? Or plutonium? We don't have...

commodity-based money any more for several reasons:

The prices are subject to speculation and supply/demand pressure, affecting money value and supply.

The commodities are often not in good enough supply to allow increases in the money supply-- tight money should be controlled by governments, not market forces.

The two largest producers of platinum and palladium are South Africa and Russia-- should our money supply be in their hands?

[Art_from_Ark]

14. We never had money based on diamonds or plutonium

And it would be nonsensical to try to base a monetary system on them.
The reason why money was based on gold and silver was because they (especially gold) fulfilled most of the requirements for a monetary medium, viz:

They are scarce, but not extremely rare
They cannot be artificially produced
They are durable (gold is virtually indestructible), and represent significant value in small amounts.
They have been recognized around the world, by nearly every culture, as money at one time or another.

As for paper, it is also subject to supply/demand pressure, which affects its value, which is essentially based on confidence (or lack thereof) in the issuing authority. All .999 gold or .999 silver is fungible, no matter where it is. The same cannot be said for paper money, which, as has been seen in many countries throughout the world, can be rendered worthless, or next to worthless when the issuing authority produces too much and loses the confidence of its backers.

[galileoreloaded]

15. Yeah, the way we do it now is MUCH better......n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

16. Palladium is not more valuable than gold per ounce

Palladium is about 1/4 the price of gold.
There is only one producing mine for palladium/platinum in the US, and that is a relatively small-scale operation in Montana. Platinum is also extremely hard to strike with coinage dies (causing the dies to wear out very quickly), and is also too scarce with too limited distribution, making it rather unfit for a coinage metal.

[grantcart]

27. Idaho has a rich history of Silver Mines

[ashling]

13. Wikipedia "thinks" ???

:crazy:

[Art_from_Ark]

17. Yeah, the do-it-yourself encyclopedia "thinks"

and its "thoughts" reflect those of whoever last edited it

[ashling]

28. It reflects the thoughts of those who last edited it

but it does not think for itself, nor, from my experience as a college instructor, do most of the students who cite it as authority...think for themselves, that is.
:evilgrin:

[Cleita]

11. Fantastic!

:eyes: As if the mining industry hasn't polluted enough streams and lakes there and now wants to deface more a beautiful landscape with open pits and toxic dumps. Idaho is a beautiful jewel in America, but it's being destroyed by the same people who like to Tea Party.

[Last_Stand]

21. I'm sure the Fed will be cool with this...

:tinfoilhat:

[Art_from_Ark]

25. As long as the state isn't claiming it's legal tender

for all debts, public and private, and isn't mandating its use at the expense of Uncle Sam's greenbacks, then they could probably get by with it, since various other entities like bus and subway companies issue their own tokens for use in their own facilities.

[PinkFloyd]

23. Some may disagree

But I wish a million times since Obama won that they could have seceded. I knew it was just grandstanding for morons but I had hope. It would have been so nice to let them go some place with no environmental laws, no taxes, no financial regulations, no liability laws on anything, 100% insurance-based health care, a drug war and silver, gold, pelts, whatever as currency and let them see firsthand how well that works out without messing up the rest of the country.