Will Toyota ride the 'San Diego Prius' back to glory?

[PBS Poll-435]

Will Toyota ride the 'San Diego Prius' back to glory?
Posted by Brian Cooley CBSNews.com
March 14, 2010 8:10 PM

It's not a crime to be the bankrupt operator of an swingers' Web site facing the prospect of taking the bus when the lease on your runaway Prius ends in a few months. But in the court of Web-driven public opinion, it doesn't look good. And that's great news for Toyota.

Leaked reports about the investigation into James Sikes' runaway Prius in San Diego indicate the uncontrolled acceleration he described can't be replicated, and that the degree of wear on the car's brakes doesn't look at all like what you'd expect if he did in fact stand on them for miles trying to restrain a wildly charging Prius (such as that is).

Reports of unintended acceleration are typically traced back to driver error. And while the Toyotas involved in this fiasco are sold globally, most claims of problems and all claims of fatalities come from the U.S. Doesn't mean Toyota's blameless--not does it mean that about America's trial lawyers, either.

To my nose, this one stunk the minute it broke and that's a gift to Toyota. The U.S. media machine loves nothing more than to build up a hero (awe-struck coverage of Toyota's rise to No. 1), then tear it down, then raise it up again as a maligned hero that endured (what else explains Michael Vick finding employment outside of a parking lot?) If the San Diego Prius turns out to be a bogus story, it will almost certainly be the start of the "maligned hero" phase that restores the benefit of the doubt to the carmaker and props up a ladder it can climb back to unanimous public esteem.

[spanone]

1. they have no proof the incident did not happen. none whatsoever.

[PBS Poll-435]

2. Except data showing 250 alternations between hitting the gas and the brakes

250 "events" is the maximum that the EDR records. In all likelyhood, it was more that 250...

[Fumesucker]

10. Which is exactly what I'd do to get the brakes hot and worn in a car like the Prius..

A car that has the throttle disengagement interlock with the brake..

Throttle, brake, throttle, brake, it wouldn't take long at all to get the brakes hot enough to stink.

[PBS Poll-435]

11. Yep...

[spanone]

13. which proves he tried to stop the car. nothing more.

[PBS Poll-435]

14. By stepping on the accelerator 125+ times?

He was workin' really hard to stop his car.

[Romulox]

18. Toyota has admitted to a sudden acceleration problem that has not been recorded by its computers

So to say that the computers report this or that data is simply not conclusive.

[spanone]

21. i've been in his situation due to a mechanics fault.

i hit every pedal i could, probably hundreds of times. i'll take his word over toyota's.

[PBS Poll-435]

28. Even the accelerator? Why not just put the transmission in neutral and coast to a nice safe stop?

Rather than hitting the brakes and the gas?

[spanone]

31. when you are going one hundred and five out of control your thinking isn't quite as sharp

i was more concerned about death

i had my foot on the brake and kept hitting or flicking the accelerator hoping i could somehow loosen it....not great thinking, but you had to be there

if what this guy says is true, and it certainly could be, i only sympathize with him.

[PBS Poll-435]

35. In the span of 20 minutes, you probably could get your shit together and figure out how to stop

Without the DRAMA of the San Diego Prius story...

[spanone]

36. well. you call it DRAMA i called it life and death

[PBS Poll-435]

40. In the time that it takes to watch a DVR'd sitcom without commercials

I would gather that a rational driver could get a vehicle to stop on the side of the road. But that is just me, I guess...

[spanone]

43. unless it's happened to you, you have no idea what you are talking about.

it happened to me.

[PBS Poll-435]

47. You told us. Mechanic screwed up.

Did your incident occur for 20+ minutes?

[spanone]

50. the time frame is inconsequential. your argument from your armchair is useless.

[PBS Poll-435]

53. Actually it is not. Again, how long was your "incident?"

Your incident that had absolutely nothing to do with software/floormats/sticky accelerator...

[spanone]

57. you've made up your mind. my discussion on this subject is done.

[PBS Poll-435]

59. Of course you are "done" You equated your issue with your vehicle and your mechanic's error

To this fool in San Diego.

:cry:

[spanone]

77. thanks for your enlightened posts, mr. toyoda.

[PBS Poll-435]

83. Honestly, if you can't see the difference...

:eyes:

[madokie]

41. zero, zilch, nada

This is all so stoopid as to be fun'na :rofl:

TOYota will cease to be when the air is all cleared. They've been playing Americans for chumps for a long time now.

[Codeine]

3. Toyota was never going to hurt for long.

They have an evangelical user base and a savvy way with the media. Combine the fact that consumer attention spans are so short that most of them didn't finish reading this sentence and you have a recipe for Glorious Rebirth, and all without anyone taking notice of the fact that they are closing their only UAW shop and are opening one in a union-busting state.

[PBS Poll-435]

5. If GM didn't see the value in keeping NUMMI open, why should Toyota?

:shrug:

[Codeine]

7. GM was collapsing, while Toyota was surging.

Well, Toyotas are always surging, but you know what I mean. ;) GM still has plenty of UAW shops, while Toyota will soon have none. More good-paying blue-collar jobs migrating to the Shit States where people feel privileged to make twelve bucks an hour for their Japanese Overlords.

[PBS Poll-435]

9. Strange

"the Shit States"

:rofl:

[Romulox]

20. How about some thought that Toyota consumers might like to support union labor?

:shrug: indeed!

[PBS Poll-435]

39. GM pulled out. Why did Toyota need to go from 1/2 plant in Fremont to a whole plant?

How would that even make sense in a recession?


And tell me about union support with a Mexican Ford F-150 or a Canadian Silverado 1500... :eyes:

[Romulox]

45. Because it might be important to some Toyota consumers to support union labor...

not to mention Californian jobs.

[PBS Poll-435]

52. So, let me get this right... Bankrupt GM leaves NUMMI...

Toyota, during a recession, is supposed to go from 50% production to 100% production at a plant in the one of the most expensive states to do business?

[blue_onyx]

56. Toyota accounted for 79% of the vehicles produced there

Only 21% of the vehicles produced there were for GM. In 2008, 342,012 vehicles were produced there, so only about 71,823 were GM vehicles.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/29/BUAB18FS5J.DTL


Toyota sells plenty of Prius' to make up for the lost volume:

"The Prius mid-size gas-electric hybrid posted year-end sales of 139,682 units. "

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota-reports-december-and-2009-150487.aspx?ncid=12036

[PBS Poll-435]

58. GM, obviously had been in decline for many years.

The produced the now defunct Pontiac Vibe along side the Toyota Corolla at NUMMI.

Again, why should Toyota, during a recession have to retrofit an old plant (to make hybrid vehicles) in an expensive state just to avoid bad publicity?

Prius, for now, is made exclusively in Japan.

[blue_onyx]

61. Because Toyota was planning...

to start building the Prius in the US anyway. Instead, they are choosing to retrofit a non-union plant in Mississippi rather than an union plant in Californian.

[PBS Poll-435]

62. They are building a new plant in Blue Springs, MS to build the Prius.

Don't know how you retrofit a new plant...

[blue_onyx]

69. From what I read...

"The $1.3-billion plant opened in 2006 and was initially slated to build Highlander crossovers. Last summer, the plant was delayed and reassigned to produce the third-generation Prius. But everything was once again thrown into the air when the plant was further postponed last December due to the slumping automotive sales sector. "

http://priuschat.com/news/mississippi-may-be-out-for-new-prius-factory-miss-newspaper-says-uh-uh

If the plant was originally intended to build the Highlander, some retrofitting would probably be necessary.

[PBS Poll-435]

73. According to Toyota, TMMMS is not producing any vehicles at this time

http://www.toyota.com/about/our_business/operations/manufacturing/tmmms/

If the plant was never opened for production, there is high probability that the equipment for the production lines was not finalized.



Domestic Highlander production occurs at Princeton, Indiana plant.


TMMMS will open later this year with Corolla and Prius production.

[blue_onyx]

75. So...

The fact is, Toyota does plan to bring more production to the US and could build more vehicles at their only unionized plant, if they wanted to. They probably could keep the California plant open with the current level of production. My guess is they are just taking this opportunity to dump the plant.

[PBS Poll-435]

76. Cost-prohibitive. nt

[Romulox]

63. Your question doesn't make sense. They can run at such capacity as is required.

Aside from your factual errors, as pointed out below, there is no requirement that a factory be run at 100% capacity at any given time.

[PBS Poll-435]

66. Factual errors?

GM and Toyota split the cost of NUMMI. Since GM shed the Pontiac brand and had excess capacity in its lines elsewhere didn't see the need to keep producing vehicles (any vehicles) in California. Why should Toyota, for strictly goodwill purposes, maintain, exclusively, an expensive plant in an expensive state?

[Romulox]

68. Yes. Toyota already occupied well over half the factory, in contradiction to your post. nt

[PBS Poll-435]

70. With the decline of GM, Toyota did, in fact, build more Corollas than GM did Vibes at NUMMI

While splitting costs with GM. While it may have not been 50/50, it is obviously clear that retrofitting an old plant in California didn't make economic sense. Especially when tax and other incentives make production in other states more attractive.

[Romulox]

71. If "makes sense" means "cynically exploited wage differentials knowing that consumer won't care"

then I agree.

[SidDithers]

80. Canadian Silverados were made by Canadian CAW members...

at the GM facility in Oshawa.

Sid

Edit: changed are to were. The Oshawa truck plant closed in 2009

[zonkers]

19. I think they are pretty screwed for a while. Sales way down. Value of cars, way down.

[jody]

4. Toyota should secretly pay the driver a million to admit it was a hoax just to tarnish other suits.

[Romulox]

23. That sounds like a felony. nt

[jody]

65. Selling a defective product that kills people is murder but corporations get away with murder. n/t

[NoGOPZone]

32. A variation on that idea

could be the conspiracy theory that Toyota staged the whole thing. I'm claiming that as mine before someone steals it. ;-)

[Atman]

6. I look at this as just another black mark on Toyota...

Once more trying to blame their customers, or their floor mats, or the alignment of the moon, instead of addressing the real issue. So what...the guy is a turd. Why does that make HIS situation with a runaway Prius less worthy than that of a nun or a kindergarten teacher? If the car is fucked up, it's fucked up, and what the driver does for a living should have no bearing on the solution.

[PBS Poll-435]

8. But what if the car is not fucked up?

What if this guy is everything he appears to be?

[Barack_America]

15. Clearly it means that none of their cars are fucked up.

That's the logical conclusion, right?

[PBS Poll-435]

26. That isn't the conclusion that I drew...

But this man is very obviously lying about this specific incident.

[Atman]

29. I don't see where you get the "obviously lying" part.

The guy might be a swinger and a douchebag...does that mean his car can't experience the same software/electronic/floormat problems as other Toyota owners?

.

[PBS Poll-435]

42. Evidence points to an obvious deception.

Brake linings, EDR data, common sense...

And the fact that Mr. Sikes, himself, said there was no issue with his floormat tells me that there was/is/will never be a geniune problem with his vehicle.

[Barack_America]

49. "Evidence points to an obvious deception".

My problem with Toyota, exactly.

[Barack_America]

12. Yes. It means the Toyota cover-up never happened and all those people never died.

[PBS Poll-435]

22. Traffic accidents happen. Nearly 34,000 died in car accidents last year according to NHTSA.

NHTSA Preliminary 2009 Traffic Accident Data

[spanone]

27. are you implying that NONE of the toyotas have had any problems?

[PBS Poll-435]

30. Not at all.

But until the media dogpile, statistically less than most automakers.

[Barack_America]

34. And heart disease is the leading cause of death in America.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

My stat is just as superfluous to the discussion at hand as yours is.

[CanonRay]

16. Question: Why is everybody all of a sudden believing Toyota?

I mean, their credibility is zero. They've been denying for years there even was an acceleration problem, then tried to sell the floor mat fix. They have been telling drivers who had accidents it was the drivers' fault. Why believe them now? :shrug:

[Fumesucker]

24. Because in this particular instance the original story was fishy as a week old carp..

The story had "balloon-boy" written all over it to people who are knowledgeable about cars..

Not to say that there haven't been other incidents that are genuine.

Keep in mind that the #2 model of car involved in unintended acceleration is the Lincoln Town Car and the Prius is #26.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nhtsa-data-dive-3-117-models-ranked-by-rate-of-ua-incidents/

[Romulox]

25. "confirmation bias". nt

[Codeine]

33. Consumer Reports! Consumer Reports! nt

[Spazito]

17. Not a chance...

Toyota's credibility is in the crapper and maligning one of their customers only keeps them there. They have proved nothing and lied about almost everything and most people know that now, imo.

[Fumesucker]

38. Audi is quite popular today with upper end drivers..

They were nearly killed by hysteria over the same problem back in the 80's, turned out then to be totally driver error.

[Spazito]

44. Times were different then, imo...

the influence of the internet and the badly degraded trust in both the mainstream media and in corporations make it less likely Toyota will "return to glory" through this latest incident, quite the reverse, imo. Will they go belly-up, no, will they eventually regain the trust they have now lost, maybe, it depends on how they handle this and, imo, so far they have handled it very badly.

[Fumesucker]

51. Audi 5000 story made it onto 60 Minutes..

There was a great deal of hysteria about it at the time I recall.

In fact I had a friend who got a majorly killer deal on a 5000 at the time because the owner was scared to drive it and had to damn near give it away..

I might even be able to afford a Prius if this hysteria keeps up, I'm not sure why I'm arguing against it. :evilgrin:

[Spazito]

55. Go for it if that's your thing!

It's not mine.

[Romulox]

46. Really? I see 10 Lexi for every one Audi (to be generous). nt

[tammywammy]

48. How long did it take Audi to recover their reputation?

5 years? 10? 15? People are talking about Toyota rebounding now, while they're still in the middle of these recalls. This isn't a year or two down the road. Do I think Toyota will recover? Yes, I do. Is it happening in the next month or based off one story? No.

[tammywammy]

37. No

This one incident will not clear up everything concerning their recalls, especially when they're on different models and the huge rust recall on their trucks.

Toyota has a lot of problems right now, I suspect it'll take quite awhile for their reputation to turn the corner.

[quinnox]

54. It may even come to Toyota having to change their name

I think the damage to Toyota's reputation and fallout from this disaster (not just this story but the entire recent events, the numerous massive recalls, etc.) may be so bad that Toyota may have to change their company name to recover from it.

All those DUers who are trying to defend Toyota or downplay this Mega PR Disaster are living on another planet IMHO

[Atman]

79. Accenture!

Worked for Enron.

[PBS Poll-435]

82. Think you mean Arthur Anderson...

But made me laugh, regardless. :D

[liberal N proud]

60. It is just their word against the driver at this point

And a California Highway Patrolman.

Or is that the media, Toyota and the Toyota faithful against the driver and patrolman.

[PBS Poll-435]

64. I believe we are just days from a sincere tear-filled apology from the "driver."

nt

[liberal N proud]

72. You believe? That's enough for me!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

74. As predicted, this man's story is proving more unbelievable with every passing day

:rofl:

;-)

[spoony]

67. False premise: they never had glory to go 'back to'

They have lots of other things, like human trafficking of cheap labour, people being overworked to death in their factories, ties to military dictators, but not glory.

[LostInAnomie]

78. Sounds like those slimy Toyota fuckers have been working hard to smear a guy their car almost killed

There is no reason to believe Toyota's test results. None. They have a vested interest in smearing the guy, and they have already proven that they were willing to knowingly kill people and try to cover it up. Why should we believe them now?

[Liberal_in_LA]

81. Latest... he was bankrupt, 700K in debt, behind on prius payments

http://www.ozcarguide.com/news-reviews/auto-news/2372-san-diego-prius-recall-victim-bankrupt

[LostInAnomie]

84. So, being in financial trouble means that you are looking to commit fraud...

... and risk your life and the lives of others in the process? It's a disgusting Toyota smear job.

"Mr. Sikes has denied any financial motivation behind his accusations and has stated that he’s up to date with car payments. He further added that he has no intentions of suing Toyota."

[PBS Poll-435]

85. Right or wrong, why do you think most car-insurers look at your credit score?

Why do you think a massive number of employers check your credit before you are hired or promoted?


:shrug:

[Mopar151]

86. What a crock - for CBS, and for most of the posts here!!!!!

LOOKIT - THE TOYOTA UNINTENDED ACCELERATION PROBLEM DOES NOT APPLY TO THE PRIUS! And it never did - it applies to US assembled cars using the CTS pedal assembly, and the US specific engine control calibration program.
Whether or not the San Diego Speeding Prius is a hoax, or operator stupidity, or demonic possesion does'nt really matter, UNLESS YOU ARE USING INTENTIONALLY DEFECTIVE LOGIC! This should do nothing to change Toyota's problems (or "be a gift to Toyota")- of which they have many - or "rehabilitate" their reputation, or put them into the "MALIGNED HERO PHASE".
There are a lot of you who have been smug, happy Toyota customers, because the car that your car nut buddies, with their Beemers, WRX/EVO/SHO, mid-life crisis cars, or those awful hot rods and "classics" , told you was slow and boring and looked cheap, rated higher than theirs. It says so, right here in the magazine that says it's so unbiased.
When they show you stuff in "their" magazines, there's a bunch of mumbo-jumbo in there that does'nt matter in the case of your beloved 'Yota - transitional handling, brake bias, torsional stiffness, 2-sided gal-fan plating, electrocoat primers, drivetrain inertia, bumpsteer, and high speed data bus. All you want is to look OK when you pick up your kid after school, and to have as little to fix or change (and no winter tires!) as possible, 'til you trade it in because you're scared it might need work, or 4 new tires.
And now your'e finding out you got played, by a company who got really good at covering things up. But-but-but you trusted them! Their recalls were not in the paper all the time! It must not be their fault! Sorry, pal - Toyota had your number, all along. And some of the things they did, to keep up their image, were wrong. Big, bad wrong. And no amount of finger-pointing at old Fords, or Corvairs, or old wierd-hair furrin cars, will change that.