Your five day week is in danger

[nadinbrzezinski]

go ahead and laugh... but Unions are now agreeing to six day weeks.

Now you might ask why is this the case? Quite simple.... Unions are under attack, most unionized workers these days work for the Federal Government and the next union to be busted will be the NEA. It is time you people realize this. There is a class war ongoing, and we are losing. I mean it is even easier when you attack, attack and attack and even co-opt the victims into agreeing to hang themselves.

There is a reality, we are using the rope they're handing to us to hang ourselves. Some of us are even tying the knot and everything.

Now part of the problem, from what I am seeing on the edges, is that the Union movement is weak, getting weaker by the moment, and does not even know what were the principles behind it. You know like forty hour and five days a week. So for all of you NOT in unions, don't be too shocked when as a worker bee you are required to work six days a week, ok. Just don't. That is coming unless people finally stand up.

Oh and for you who are Management, we know that some of you are ALREADY working those hours and then some.

SO just expect things to get far worst. It seems there is nothing we can do about it.

I wonder what it will take to wake up workers in this country, make them realize THEY ARE WORKERS not middle class, and damn it take to the streets... and you know like strike and damn the consequences, because that is what it took to get those fast eroding benefits! (Not that people know these things any more)

Yes there are days I wonder if Americans will EVER wake up?

:banghead: preemptively, since I know there are some even here, that defend this union busting (I mean we know teachers suck, doncha know? And yes, that is the next large union now in the process of getting busted! And some people laugh, point and play the fiddle while Rome burns)

[WillParkinson]

1. Oh, 5 day week...

I was going to say I don't think I ever had a 5 hour week.

[Newsjock]

2. Got a link?

I don't doubt that we're being screwn; I'd just like to read more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. My hubby's union

just did that...

[Hannah Bell]

52. link?

[Brickbat]

69. Which is what?

[Contrary1]

76. A link would be helpful, wouldn't it?

I've googled around, and cannot find any reference to this. And since the OP hasn't provided one as proof, I'll be reserving judgment on this one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. You reserve whatever you want

But there are reasons why things like this are NOT published in the news... care to tell me when was the last time a WORKERS paper was like PUBLISHED in this country? You expect the bidnsss pages to publish this?

Oh and I forgot, you do know the Republican Party CANCELED all primaries in 2004? No, I did not find that story in the US Press. I found it in the Guardian. Try readying Manufacturing of Consent for an idea of what is going on and why I got NO physical link for you.

But perhaps you will get it when you too get six days a week.

[Contrary1]

80. Aw, c'mon...just the name of one union involved will suffice.

And I CAN capitalize CERTAIN words too...not that it makes much difference.

Link?

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. Sure I will give you several... look at the USPS

That's about twenty of them.

[AwakeAtLast]

113. USPS is talking about eliminating Saturday delivery

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Did not say it made any sense

that one the Unions are taking a stance again, by the way.

Of course it does have a certain logic, perverse and all... make life miserable for the work force and offer "early retirement."

[Hannah Bell]

130. link?

[tritsofme]

117. The GOP did not cancel all primaries in 2004.

Bush ran unopposed at the top of the ticket in most states as incumbent presidents usually do, but I mean how do you think all their candidates were chosen?

And as to your OP, I have seen numerous businesses move to four day weeks, but none to six.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. They did, the story ran in the Guardian

it was the AP wire. Now the problem is that the Guardian, which ran that story, is NOT an American paper.

:-)

And it was one more of those moments when I went WTF?

Don't worry the fraud that was perpetrated at Cuyahooga County in OH ran in the press, just not the American press... and it was a three page full spread...

But since this did not run in the American Press it did not happen either.

Nature of the beast.

And yes I already told you what bidness is doing that. Never mind it should not be treated as one, except for a 1973 reform... oh never mind... if it did not run in the US Press it never ever happens. I should know that.

[fishwax]

126. no, they didn't

a few states canceled their primaries, including some big ones like Florida and New York. They wanted to protect bush from dissent even within the party :eyes:.

But it isn't true that the party canceled all (or even most) primaries. Here's a link about it from the Nation back when: http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/1565/canceled_elections.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. And you may want to look at the AP wire

and no I am not going to do that homework for you.

I KNOW exactly what I read in the AP wire (in the Guardian) and I also know what I read in the Excelsion, and later translated... regarding the fraud in OH.

[fishwax]

129. There were primaries in 2004

I'm not asking you to do any homework for me. I already know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. Democratic primaries, you are correct

have a good day.

[fishwax]

135. lol -- republican primaries too, in all but a handful of states

I'm not sure why that fact is so perplexing to you. In a few states the republican primaries were canceled by the legislature and in a few other states the primaries were suspended (by the state parties, IIRC). But in most states there were republican primaries. Perhaps The Guardian got it wrong :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Look at the table on Wiki

and you tell me that they were again... when MOST states did not have a challenger on the ballot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries,_2004

No I did not imagine this.

[tritsofme]

138. That table shows...that there were in fact primaries in 2004.

Incumbent presidents typically do not draw challengers, this is not unusual.

Looking at 1996 and 1984:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries,_1996
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries,_1984

Clinton and Reagan only faced token opposition as well, and I'm sure ran unopposed in many states. This is really a bizarre argument we are in.

[fishwax]

148. not having a challenger on the ballot is not the same as canceling the primary

It's silly to pretend that it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

151. They did but that;'s ok

I should not expect people to remember things that happened in the antediluvian period (2004) when they don't remember what happened three months ago or for that matter a week ago.

And I am serious about this.

DEAD SERIOUS.

There is a willful memory hole in the culture. We don't even need a Dept. of Truth. We do it ourselves.

[fishwax]

154. your assertion is contrary to fact

And your insistence (without any supporting evidence) casts doubt on your other assertions as well. I don't doubt your seriousness, but it doesn't change the facts.

There's a memory hole in the culture, to be sure. But with respect to the 2004 primaries the memory hole is one of your own making. I don't know why you're so invested in believing the republicans canceled all primaries in 2004, but to each their own.

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. And the AP and the Guardian

thankfully I and my BIL do share that memory... like a few others that many people have managed to forget... or move on to the next shiny.

I am at the point of losing any hope that things will change in this country... not as long as we willfully forget what matters, remember what does not, and cast aspersion on events that are truly non events because we happen to live them... but gosh darn it, there is no way I can give you a link since your local paper does no longer (in this case) have a labor beat.

So as they say... play that violin while Rome burns... and keep thinking that it didn't happen just because you do not remember seeing that on the US news. Mostly it did NOT RUN in the US press... just like the Oh Fraud in OH did NOT run on the US press. There is so much that happens in this country that never happens since your fucking and my fucking press ain't running it. They are into the creation of what you think is reality, which is not the same as reality.

So why bother?

Fake elections

Willful memory holes


And shiny baubles....

Yep, I guess a few others who have concluded there is no use in trying (Matcom and few other DU'ers) were quite right... why the fuck bother? Nothing will ever change, except the model of the bauble we all chose to consume. (And made with child labor in far away shores by the way)

Give me the red pill, I really don't want any more of this blue pill. Perhaps my brother and SIL who watch (and believe that they matter) Sports incessantly, have it right. At least they don't care about things that matter or lose sleep over it, or are called names over it. VITNESS... (inside joke, don't ask)

[fishwax]

157. whadya know -- here's a thread from the DU back in 2004 about the republican primary in Oklahoma

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x348737

[nadinbrzezinski]

158. And what do you know I KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I SAW in the Guardian

courtesy of the AP wire.

And it did NOT COME immediately... or instantaneously.

BUT IT DID HAPPEN.

You live on in that manufactured reality...

I know the effect that story had on me. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENS IN THE US... I LOOK AT FOREIGN PRESS LIKE THE OBSERVER AND THE GUARDIAN FIRST.

You keep thinking they produce news in this country m'kay...

Google Manufacturing of Consent... even read it.

[The Genealogist]

162. Are you trying to insinuate that a DU post from 2004 was fabricated?

You are really hung up on this story. And, the table at Wikipedia has numbers from primaries in Oklahoma, Louisiana, Missouri and New Hampshire. Is that manufactured too?

[fishwax]

164. what you're claiming was in The Guardian does not reflect the reality of the 2004 primaries

I don't know what you saw in The Guardian. Perhaps you misremember, or perhaps The Guardian got it wrong. Because there were republican primaries in 2004. Your claim that the republicans canceled all primaries in 2004 is demonstrably false. The scope of that claim is off (some vs. all), as I pointed out.

Your insistence that it must be true because you remember reading about it in the guardian, in spite of evidence that it's false is rather silly. (Your apparent belief that the foreign press is completely free of all the issues that so often compromise the press in this country is charming, but naive.)

You live on in that manufactured reality... ... You keep thinking they produce news in this country m'kay...

And your attempt to ridicule *my* media awareness, when you continue to cling to a claim that is demonstrably false, is highly amusing. Weird, but amusing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

166. Given that the Guardian RAN the AP wire intact

I guess the AP got it wrong and forgot to correct it... after all huh?

:eyes:

And I am not insinuating a thing... have a good day.

Oh and one last thing, as to media awareness. Most Americans who live IN THE FISHBOWL have no clue about what goes on in the country. Our situation is not that different than oh Mexico in the 1970s, when if you wanted to know what was going on you bought a copy of the Times.

There is one major difference.

The Mexican Press of the 1970s lived under official government censorship. The US Press of today does it on it's own.

And sadly, you are not aware of that, or seem unaware of that.

And I am not ridiculing anything. I JUST KNOW WHAT I READ. Since it gelled the internal censorship the US has, at least in my mind.

You believe there is no censorship in the US? Of course there is... have a good day.

I am about had it with a supposedly liberal site. I know what I have seen, and in this case... well between people going SHOW ME A LINK to something that for complex reasons does not exist, but WE ARE LIVING and this... I guess truly there is no hope for this country.

TRULY.

So I think I'd better go check my brain, for the lobotomy and March Madness. Will make life that much easier.


By the way there is something else going on... in the US... scrubbing of the web. I know you won't believe me, but there is an honest to goodness memory hole project in process.

[fishwax]

171. how do you know they ran the AP intact? Did you see the AP story somewhere else for a comparison?

"I guess the AP got it wrong and forgot to correct it... after all huh?"

So you're saying it must have been true because you read it in a foreign newspaper and foreign newspapers are reliable, unlike American newspapers. But the original source was an American news agency, which is supposed to be unreliable, and the foreign newspaper ran it completely intact. There's so much contradiction there that it's hardly worth the effort of sorting it out.

"You believe there is no censorship in the US? Of course there is... have a good day."

I don't know where you got the idea that I believe that. But you have a good day, too.

[Contrary1]

160. Indiana had a primary in 2004 also.

Go figure.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P04/IN-R.phtml

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. very state had, of course they did...

:eyes:

Of course we all live in a society where people forget what was going on in 2004... including cancelling of elections and all that (rumors)... and when I went to the ballot in 2004 in California I do not remember seeing any body on the Republican Ballot except smirk... which is exactly how they canceled them. They DID NOT allow anybody to RUN against Bush, not after the first three or four.

But whatever... shame elections, stolen elections, manufacturing of consent... and a fantasy... including a memory hole.

Why I think a few DU'ers who have gone away have it right. It really does not matter. One whit in fact.

let me repeat this.

NOTHING WILL CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY. NOTHING. YOU ARE ALL STUCK IN THE MANUFACTURED REALITY YOU CHOSE TO LIVE IN. SAD AIN'T IT?

AND SOME SAY THIS IS A LIBERAL BOARD... WELL SOME OF YOU WOULD NOT KNOW A LIBERAL IF ONE CAME TO YOU AND WIGGLED IN FRONT OF YOU.


And I used to think it was worth trying. I think it is not.

I may still write that book on the history of labor for MYSELF... but expect that to help create any changes? WHO AM I KIDDING?

[tritsofme]

165. Bush had no high profile challengers.

He ran unopposed in most states, as Clinton and Reagan before him. But there definitely were primaries, a lack of challenger does not mean the election was canceled.

There is a good chance you will take a Democratic primary ballot in 2012 and find no challenger to President Obama, that doesn't mean the primary was canceled.

You are either mis-remembering this Guardian article you hold in such high esteem, or they were wrong. Pretty simple.

[nadinbrzezinski]

168. As I said, the AP was wrong

ok... since they ran that story, which strangely did not run in US papers.

I'll leave it at that... another strange event of why I should keep INSIDE the bubble, would make life easier.

[Contrary1]

167. Well, you did answer this post:

tritsofme (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-17-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #78
117. The GOP did not cancel all primaries in 2004.

with this:

nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-17-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #117
119. They did, the story ran in the Guardian

Just pointing out that all primaries were not cancelled.

You're welcome. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

169. Whatever... I guess I got a case of Alzheirmers

:-)

Or a slew of other Psychiatric ills.

And sadly I am not joking...

Though the reference will be missed and that is a-ok in my book

[Hannah Bell]

131. link?

[Brickbat]

96. What union?

[liberal N proud]

4. It's the wal-mart way

My wife has not worked a 5 day week in a long time.

[no limit]

5. If they want me to work saturdays I'm fine with the over time

it would be a blessing actually. But the company I work for doesnt have the money for that, the only threat I have to my 5 day week is getting some of my days cut.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. No, not overtime

six day weeks\ forty hours

[no limit]

12. Ok, then whats the problem? its the same hours

if you don't like them go to a different job. If a manager wants 6 day weeks at 6.5 hours a day then the job probably calls for such a schedule.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Ye are part of the problem, not the solution

Have a good day, if you cannot see the problem with this, there is nothing I can do for ya son.

[krispos42]

34. You lose a day off.

Your weekend loses a day. Plus that's one more day you have to drive or otherwise commute.

For example, now you're working 7 hours a day during the week instead of 8 hours, so you have to come in Saturday and work 5 more to get your 40.

[The Gunslinger]

72. Go to a different job????????

Thats corporate bullshit!! I hear it every day. You know damn well there are no jobs, because your corporate masters have decided to make people work longer hours and more days, so they don't have to hire. I would leave my 6-7 day a week job if I could. Try telling you kid that they can't play baseball this year because of a new work schedule which is better suited to the corporation.

This country is regressing fast.

[Better Believe It]

142. And if you don't like America, leave it!

What crap. If you don't like your employer quit .... just don't try to improve or change your working conditions. After all, if it wasn't for capitalists you wouldn't even have a job.

This kind of reactionary thinking is in line with "American, love it or leave it".

[SoCalDem]

55. UFCW workers know how that works

especially those low on the totem pole.. 6 4's are nothing unusual..keeps the people "hungry" and always sitting by the phone (figuratively now)..and always begging to "stay later".. I once had a 57 mile commute (one way), and would get 6 4's..so I never knew what my actual hours would be..At the end of the week, it would often end up being 30 hrs..but it was a daily struggle to get to 30..and week-to-week, there was never any way to plan around a schedule like that..

[ourbluenation]

155. 6/40??? What is the benefit of the employer doing that?

[Catshrink]

8. Overtime pay?

don't count on it without a union to negotiate it for you.

[no limit]

9. Anything over 40 you get overtime by law

Unions are great in many cases, but I dont need them to get overtime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. And you think that cannot be changed?

You really believe the next effort will not be to weaken overtime laws to the point that you will NOT get overtime?

Are people this damn gullible?

And yes, laws have already been creatively fiddled with where many workers are now "management" who do NOT get OT pay...

[LiberalLoner]

83. We will end up with the hellish conditions of Dicken's London, just wait and see. And yes, (rop)

the elite rich people ARE planning on creating conditions where a good percentage (maybe 1/3 of us?) die from malnutrition, untreated disease, poor working conditions/pollution, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I hope people will rise before that

but Idiocrasy is not a comedy, it is a documentary, I fear.

[kdmorris]

18. Well, if you aren't salaried, that is

If you are salaried, you get paid for 40 hours a week no matter how many hours you work.

[LibertyLover]

25. Not for everyone

does more than 40 hours' worth of work get you overtime. All a company has to do to get out of paying you overtime is to reclassify your position. I know because it happened to me. As a legal assistant I was used to getting paid overtime and believe me on some large transactions you could rack up the hours like nobody's business. It was that way when I worked for law firms in NY and DC. Then I changed employers. The first 2 years I got paid overtime because I was not in a "professional" grade. Then they decided to reclassify legal assistants. We got bumped up a grade to the lowest professional grade, told that we could not move up any more grades because they were only allocating one grade for legal assistants and lost our overtime eligibility to boot because now we were "professional" staff. I routinely work more than 40 hours and on weekends but don't get overtime or comp time either.

[starroute]

39. Being "professional" alone shouldn't do it

I'm rusty on the details, but I know there have been cases involving computer programmers and such. The determining factor is supposed to be not whether you have professional expertise but whether you're in a supervisory position or whether you're in a position to make independent decisions about anything more important than what brand of paper clips to buy.

There's a whole lot of case law out there. It might be worth your doing some googling and seeing what you can find.

[Retrograde]

47. computer programmers are specifically exempt from overtime

IIRC, positions that require creativity (that's where programming falls) and independent work are typically exempt. Silicon Valley got very good at reclassifying positions to include "manager" in the title somehow to get around paying overtime - as well as telling people they were expected to put in 10 hour days.

[boppers]

104. *Note: Oregon has special protections for programmers.

http://www.sustainableoregon.net/DAS/HR/docs/advice/FLSA_guide.pdf

Other states may have wised up, as well.

[etherealtruth]

170. Many "professional are exempted from over time pay

I figure I earn about 12 cents an hour due to my actual hours worked vs. hours paid

http://www.ewin.com/articles/exneot.htm

"Professional Exemption

To qualify for the learned professional employee exemption, all of the following tests must be met:

The employee must be compensated on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a rate not less than $455 per week;
The employee’s primary duty must be the performance of work requiring advanced knowledge, defined as work which is predominantly intellectual in character and which includes work requiring the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment;
The advanced knowledge must be in a field of science or learning;
and The advanced knowledge must be customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction.
To qualify for the creative professional employee exemption, all of the following tests must be met:

The employee must be compensated on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a rate not less than $455 per week;
The employee’s primary duty must be the performance of work requiring invention, imagination, originality or talent in a recognized field of artistic or creative endeavor."

[salguine]

43. And in the business/government climate we have now, don't be surprised if

you have to work overtime and don't get paid for it, because the people who are supposed to be on your side aren't.

[PVnRT]

45. Unless you're an "exempt" salaried employee

That's what "exempt" means - exempt from overtime pay laws.

[Doremus]

49. Spoken like an ungrateful brat.

And I don't care how old you are. Saying you don't need unions because overtime is the law reveals either a total disdain for the people who came before you and FOUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL to get that law, or a complete ignorance of same.

Which is it?

[no limit]

51. I said we don't need unions?

You wanna read my reply again? Because I never said such a thing. What I said that as it stands I don't need a union to get overtime, any time I work above 40 hours is automatically counted as overtime pay and we are not unionized.

[Doremus]

59. You're stating the obvious. My point was that you are ignoring the genesis of the law.

You don't need a union *now* to get OT because all the hard work's already been done ... by unions and their brave members who came before you.

My point is that you are basically enjoying the benefits of unionization while spitting in the faces of those who achieved them for you.

[no limit]

62. The person I was responding to didn't think it was obvious. not my fault you got your feelings hurt

I never spit in the face of unions and I am fully aware of all the good they have done in our history. You chose to misrepresent what I said.

[treestar]

71. They were just pointing out it was already the law

geez

[GinaMaria]

58. not if you are salaried.

or 'professional' is the label that is applied. They can legally work you till you drop (some variation by state). Weekends, 18 hour days... you name, it's legal. People who work for hourly wages tend to have this benefit or at least are paid for every hour they work. So if your salary works out to be $20/hour for a 40 hour work week, that's fine but it's the same amount of money if you work 80 hours a week, except that you just worked for $10/hour that week.

[no limit]

63. I forgot about that, thanks for the clarification

[GinaMaria]

77. sure. Thanks for the reasonable response

:hi:

[dixiegrrrrl]

60. Unless you are a "manager"..and that is how Target got around the law.

Not just Target...many other places.
They simply re-classified people as "management".
The rest they call "part-time", limit their hours per week to 30, so they do not have to pay benefits.

YOU might not need them, but lots of others do, and unless we stick together, we will go down separately.

[MattBaggins]

68. You really are naive

You think they won't go after overtime next?

[appal_jack]

105. You can thank unions for that law.

Or did you think that the corporate masters just benevolently handed it down from upon high?

Every benefit that workers have enjoyed for the past ~60 years was hard-won after a long struggle. Unions led the way.

It's thanks to Unions that my parents were able to get decent jobs with pay sufficient for their 3 children to get an education (plus a roof over our heads, nutritious foods, and many other blessings).

-app

[no limit]

141. I never said any different

I was simply pointing out that the overtime law was already on the books, I didnt need a union to negotiate it for me. And someone then came in and reminded me that this is not the case for salaried employees (I alwasy worked on an hourly basis) and I thanked them for the clarification.

Why so many of you assumed I was dumping on the unions I'm not sure.

[laughingliberal]

6. New union campaign

Your day off: brought to you by unions.

How long before we are back to the days of 7 day work weeks? People who don't know the history of labor in this country or who, somehow, think that can't happen again are blind.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Well realize Unions are about 7% of all the work force

so in reality they can ignore them unions. Why you think EFCA will not pass if they can help it, or be so damn weak it will be useless?

[Luciferous]

10. My husband is in the UAW, and up until last year he would work

6 days a week pretty much all the time. Of course a 6 day work week wasn't actually in their Union contract, but as long as they had notice by Wednesday they were required to work Saturdays.

[Scout]

19. and did they get overtime for those hours over 40 in a week? n/t

[Luciferous]

23. Yes, he did. He actually doesn't mind working the extra hours but

I know that quite a few of his coworkers get mad about it.

[Scout]

29. no one has a problem working Saturdays if it's more than 40 hours

and you get overtime. what people are having a problem with is that you end up working 6 days a week but they spread the hours out so you aren't getting more than 8 in a day or more than 40 in a week. so, no overtime pay but you still have to drive to and from work 6 days a week and not have a true weekend.

[hfojvt]

61. that's not true

some people get tired of constantly working 60 hour weeks and six day weeks even if they do get lots of overtime. At some point you'd like to have a life too. Myself, I never cared even for the forty hour week. As Thoreau said "... if I had to sell both my forenoons and afternoons to society, as most men do, that life for me would no longer be worth living."

I have suggested that mandatory overtime should be paid double time. If you cannot get people to volunteer for time and a half, then either pay double time or do some more hiring.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. That's not true,

we are just living this right now... working six days a week, but not even close to overtime.

Tell me what part of this is not true.

OY...

:banghead:

[hfojvt]

122. what I said

is that Scout's claim that "no one has a problem working Saturdays if it's more than 40 hours" was not true. Not everybody wants to work every Saturday just because it's time and a half.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. My apology then

:hi:

[hfojvt]

134. no problem

I appreciate the thread. I wrote another time about how the paid holiday seems to be vanishing for many people. And I heard recently that the Superintendent of Kansas City Schools was talking about six day school weeks and year-round school to an applauding group of Rotarians.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Reforming the school year (in a rational world we should have that discussion)

is not that crazy given the origin of the current schedule. But we both know this is not about modernizing our mostly agrarian school year, but about breaking the Union's back.

That's what sickens me. And people lap it up.

Of course it would help if the unions in question like updated their sites and went into this... but hey, what can you do?

After all most people round these parts will not believe it if they don't see it... but I guess if a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it, well it did not fall.

I know that next comes doing a lot of research and trying on making an appointment with congress critter

[The Gunslinger]

73. I got a problem with 6 days no matter what they pay

It's called quality of life.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. THere you go, why I said the Unions

are no longer fighting the battle they did at one point. Why? They are that weak. How long until Workers take to the streets? IN the US, am afraid NEVER.

You do realize the Hay Market affair was partly over that and people died? Oh never mind... that is a commie holiday (May First) not related to US Labor History.

[Blue Diadem]

75. It was in my DH's union contract to work 21 days straight before

getting a weekend off. If they missed one day during those 3 weeks, the 21 days began all over again. DH worked that for over 10 yrs, right up til the day the company closed. The company closed in '98.

The union had to negotiate that one weekend off every 3 weeks, otherwise the employees would have never had time off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Out of curiousity, what did your DH do?

[Blue Diadem]

106. Automotive supplier for one of the big 3.

He was in skilled trades for Die Casting. Of course he was paid OT but the endless work takes a toll on employees.

His current employer went to 4 10hr days and the employees also took a large paycut. Some of the employees are working part-time jobs on the weekend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. We are definitely going backwards

as a nation... and nobody seems to be able to say ENOUGH!

[Luciferous]

109. Wow, that would suck. I can't believe he did it for that long!

[Blue Diadem]

140. They did it with the promise of retirement after 30 yrs.

DH had 25 yrs in when they closed.

We learned to live with it, but it wasn't great for doing things as a family. I think it contributed to his and many of his former co-workers health problems.

[bluethruandthru]

15. When I saw the title of your OP I was thinking I would click

and find out that we're moving to 4 day work weeks!! I've been a huge proponent of businesses changing to 4 day work weeks (10-12 hour days) for years..for many reasons. I've wished that government would take some of the money they're planning to spend on more and wider highways and give tax breaks to businesses that allow 4 day work weeks or teleworking. We need to get some cars off the road/ease traffic/lessen pollution. Plus, with a 4 day work week, fewer workers would need to take time off for dr. appt.s, etc since they would have at least one weekday (when doctors/dentists are open) for these things.
I can't believe we're moving backwards!

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. We are, and have for some time

If the management class could do it, all labor laws would get canceled and we'd go back to the 19th century, right before Unions became a pain in them rears, even if illegal. You know like child labor and such...

Realize most people in this country have no idea of the Union Movement or it's history. I have been doing research into the history of the movement, and increasingly I think I should byte the bullet and write that in an easy to read history, to chiefly distribute at Union Halls... and the streets. Get people educated. Problem is, folks don't read any more... and I'd be fighting the big guns of our media.

I mean people do not realize at one point there were like UNION papers in every town...

I guess I will still do it... the fight has to be fought. And people need the tools. My dream, ain't gonna happen, for people to show up at their places of work wearing Red on May First... preferably red and black... no, not the Colors of the International, the colors of the McGuire Brothers, and the Hay Market Affair. Start recapturing that critical moment in US LABOR HISTORY from the shadows of history. There is a reason why Labor Day in the US is officially celebrated in September...

[SoCalDem]

57. 4 10's does not work well for bosses, in most cases

If you run a retail enterprise, the LAST thing you want is a bunch of people standing around, on a "slow day", and if you schedule them, you have to keep them there (unless you can get some to go home early on their own)

It makes more sense for manufacturing, but then fatigue can cause accidents in such a long shift..and rules dictate breaks in such a long shift.

Bosses prefer to schedule just under the requirements, so they don't HAVE to give a "lunch-break"..and only have to fit in one short break.

and "hours-hungry" people are eager to come in on a moment's notice or stay late..

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

70. Workers who are getting screwed out of meals and breaks aren't very efficient.

Good bosses know that.

[dustbunnie]

89. It's the best system ever!

My first job fresh out of school had a four-day work week exactly as you describe. They did it as a concession to keep the unions out, but frack it was so civilized and worth it. The longer hours were unnoticeable really, and that Friday off was heaven. You could go out late on Thursday, then do all the dumb chores like grocery shopping and cleaning on Friday. And you'd still have two days to just enjoy. Talk about being rested. My skin looked amazing, like a baby's bottom.

But all good things must come to an end. The worst is this 6 day a week work schedule. The body eventually wears itself down so you've got nothing but insomniac, overweight, burned out, slow-thinking miserable people doing business for you. It isn't quite the same as execs who also work 6 days plus vacations, because they get hella perks to keep them from from burning out, although they do take a lot of stress too.

[xultar]

16. I don't see this as accurate. More people are going 4 day weeks with longer days. PLUS

Even school districts are thinking of doing it to save fuel and facility costs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. And you'd be wrong

but bear in mind the NEA is in the process of getting busted.

Oh wait, that would never ever happen in this country.

[tammywammy]

24. I work 4 days one week, 5 the next

I hate 5 day weeks. :)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

143. we run a 9/80 as well... but I'm usually in on the off-friday AND part of saturdays.

No overtime though unless it's approved.
Usually it's not approved.

[tammywammy]

163. I get paid every hour overtime

I have been working most off Fridays and some Saturdays the last couple of months. This week I'm not too busy so I won't have to work Friday (yea!). My dad's worked the 4/10s for as long as I can remember.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

174. Our first 5 hours of overtime are free... as in like $0/hr.

They call it "casual overtime" or the "5hr rule"... you must work over 5hrs overtime to get paid for ANY overtime.
If you're not approved for overtime you get paid for 40hrs regardless how many hours you're working.
If you are approved for overtime you get paid for 40hrs for working up to 45hrs. Over 45 hours, THEN you start getting paid for OT.

Plus, OT pay for us is not double-time or even time-and-a-half --> it's only standard pay.
So working 50hrs with approved OT means you get 45hrs normal... IF overtime is approved - usually it's not.

[OmahaBlueDog]

17. What is this 5 day work week you speak of, Lone Ranger?

Next, you will tell me that funny story I heard once about 40 hours of work....:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. How long until people finally rise up?

Oh wait, that ain't gonna happen.

Enjoy the rope.

[kdmorris]

26. You know, while you may even be right on some points, your method of delivery

leaves something to be desired.

You do realize that people are suffering right now, yes? Clinging to the measly three days a week that they can squeeze our of their employer so that they can feed their kids?

You seem to be advocating that these same people need to "wake up", "rise up" and "take to the streets". When exactly would they find the time to do that between all the jobs they have.

You seem to be blaming the victims here, as if they are going to rock the boat in a job that they need to survive. Unions are weak because corporations made it impossible to unionize, because people are desperate to survive and will not do anything to bite the hand that feeds them.

And you seem to blame them. Have you ever been that poor? Have you ever been so desperate that you would take any job and be grateful for it?

If you haven't, then you have no business judging the people who are NOT going to "take to the streets" because it means that they or their children will starve to death under a bridge somewhere.

You want to make unions strong again? Stop the corporations from being allowed to buy politicians. Stop the corporations from being allowed to have the balls of every one of their employees firmly in their grasp. After you take care of that, and people are free to "rise up" without punishment, then come back here and type your little hyperbolic screed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. You realize that workers did rise up

working SEVEN days a week living in company towns, racking up a debt at the company store?

I am not blaming the victims. Just pointing out that the victims need to take a lesson from history. If this is such a problem, and it is, well then all the gains made by people who used to work SEVEN days a week will be lost, and we will go back to working SEVEN days a week, shopping at the company store and living in company housing. You want to go back to that? IN some places of the world that is now a reality by the way.

[kdmorris]

38. I know quite a bit about history, thank you

I'm simply saying that you are reminding the wrong people to take a lesson from history. Your energies would be better served LEADING those same people, giving them a fall back plan, something to carry them over until they can go back to work. You know... what UNIONS did for those people who were working 7 days a week.

I am well aware of the huge amount of poverty in other parts of the world, as well. You cannot get people on your side, get them to help you in your cause unless you understand what motivates them. There is no organized "take to the streets" sort of thing out there for people to follow.

In this economy, there's no way I would jeopardize my job unless there was a guarantee that my children will not be punished for MY cause.

I never said I didn't agree with the need to strengthen unions or the need for those same unions to be available to all. I said you are going about this the wrong way. You are basically telling everyone that they are wrong and that they must "rise up", "take to the streets" and "wake up", without giving them ANY alternative or safety net. You just want everyone to wake up, refuse to go to their jobs and... what? How are these people going to feed themselves, their families? How are they going to pay their mortgage? Do you seriously think that one person waking up will do anything?

It worked back in the 30's because it was ORGANIZED, because people had hope that their families would be taken care of by the union when scabs took their jobs. Unions need to learn from history, too. Without the power to affect change, you are basically asking people to jeopardize their lives for nothing. And that seems naive, at best.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Unions DID TELL PEOPLE to rise up

that is the HISTORY.

And it was done this way... just using hand bills.

Have a good day, we differ on the methods, or what is really going on.

Which is DEEP IGNORANCE of labor history in the US, and that includes the labor movement and the leadership of the current labor movement. That is not a coincidence either.

The first tools are KNOWLEDGE... oh never mind....

:banghead:

I guess I am blaming the victims and such by begging of them to learn of the conditions and taking things into their own hands. In some ways they are the leaders they are waiting for.

It is called empowering...

:banghead:

[Kalun D]

172. LOLZ!!!

""There is no organized "take to the streets" sort of thing out there for people to follow. ""

ever heard of France?

[The Gunslinger]

74. Thats what we are regressing to.

[joeybee12]

KNR...we're being taken for a ride...n/t

[Romulox]

28. You mean there's a downside to every man for himself neoliberalism?

And after they promised me that they were going to stop after they outsourced your job? :wow:

[udbcrzy2]

30. Car Dealer service department is doing it

The local car dealer is doing that now. They have 5 'helpers' (paid 10.00 hrly cannot do much) and 1 real mechanic on Saturdays. They give them extra money for it too. Then they are off on Sunday & Monday.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. SO they are working forty hour weeks, five days a week

no, I am talking of six days a week... you can see the difference here, right?

[Bluzmann57]

32. I haven't worked a five day week in many many years

12 hr. shifts, three or four days/week, depending on which week it is. And we are a Union shop, in fact I am a Union Steward. If we went back to five days a week, there would have to be some swing shift involved and that's not good for anyone. Outside of working 12 hours, I really don't mind my hours. It's nice to have six months a year off plus vacation time.
And just so you know-Any hours worked over the required 36 on three day weeks is overtime. So we are doing ok. Just wish the health insurance costs would go down.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. So you are STILL doing forty hours\week

this is doing those same forty hours in six days... you get one day off.

Your Union is doing it so you get a LONGER weekend, like oh cops do as well. (Another Union)

Perhaps I am not clear, this is not about a forty hour week. It is 'bout spreading it over six days. NO fight back, next we will have that forty hours over SEVEN days.

[skeptical cynic]

36. This is probably all cyclic

We're sort of where we were in the 1920s, and we'll probably soon be where we were in the 1930s. When the condition of workers gets bad enough, then the workers will finally do something to reverse the situation. And, as in the past, failure to act early will lead to a situation where violence in inevitable.

A local union just took a 5% cut in pay and benefits after the company selected a non-union contractor to take the place of the union contractor. Of course, the loss of experience and training would have made the switch unworkable, but the union leadership caved and made the concession without even consulting union membership.

Things will keep getting worse, then they will get really bad while things get better.

It's too bad we're so ignorant to historical patterns and so short-sighted in our self-interest that we're even blind to our own long-term self-interest.

It's like climate change and every other issue that requires a comprehensive perspective. We blame corporations for being short-sighted, but we're our own worst enemies in that regard.

To answer a point made above: What's the difference between working a 5-day 40-hour week and a 6-day 40-hour week? One whole day of freedom; the loss of a hard-won 5-day workweek. I once had a job that required me to work six days for a fixed salary. Of course, I only kept that job for as long as it took me to find one with a 5-day workweek. So, the other difference is going to be turnover and the quality of the workforce--those who have the talent and ability to find something better will.

Another disturbing anti-worker trend: A recent article in the Wall Street Journal discussed the underfunding of defined contribution pension plans (800 plans underfunded by over $50 million each). Rather than blame the state and local agencies that intentionally failed to make the contributions, the article blamed the retiring employees for actually expecting to receive the compensation they were promised.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. BINGO

you get it.

I guess I should byte the bullet and just write that book.

The only thing I will take a caveat with you is that in the 1920s (and 1930s) as bad as things were, there were still people around who knew they were better than they used to be. The Hay Market Affair and the McGuire Brothers were still in the personal memories of some people who were like young bucks when that massacre occured. Why Historians of the Period went out of their way to paint them as RADICALS... and lets not mention Sacco and Vanzeti.

Right now I guess some folks will have to use the Wiki to find out what the hell I am talking about. So I will save them some work

Hay Market Affair

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair

Sacco and Vanzeti

http://saccoandvanzetti.org/

[skeptical cynic]

42. Socialism and communism were also much more popular

back then than they are now. I predict they're going to become popular again, even with generations brainwashed by Cold War propaganda and the demonization of democratically elected socialist leaders in the US mainstream media.

There are a lot of illusions that weren't destroyed by the Great Recession, but I think a steady deterioration in the lives of the working class, and possibly another round of recession when the realities of 8.5 million lost jobs and globalization of manufacturing sinks in and "consumer confidence" takes another and deeper dive, will soon solve that problem.

The masses can't remain forever blind to the arrogance of the Rulers that is so evident in the continuation of business as usual.

Good caveats. We are definitely worse off than we were before thirty years under neoconservative Republicans and pseudoDemocrats.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. There have been some polls done

and kids these days do like socialism in principle.

And personally I love social democracy since it like works... and such.

That is also the reason why the Tea Baggers are having a hell of a time getting the kids to nod in agreement when they scream OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST!!! RUN FER THEM HILLS!!!! PROTECT WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!!!

Mostly kids are going... Socialist? What is that? They forgot, kids under thirty grew up under Reagan but NOT during the Cold War.

[skeptical cynic]

50. The kids probably have a better idea than the Tea Baggers

about what a socialist is, and they recognize that Obama is far from being a socialist when the campaign promises are set aside and his actions as President are considered.

That news is good to read. My partner and I think of ourselves as Democratic Socialists (voter registration Green). I read something in a post recently that I liked Somewhere between social Darwinism and socialism there must be something like socially responsible capitalism.

It sounds like you are a teacher. Our school district has completely bought into No Child Left Behind. My daughter's children are about to enter school, and she has decided to put them in a charter school that completely rejects the NCLB philosophy and focuses on problem-solving, science, nature/environment/sustainable living, and liberal arts. I haven't looked closely at it, but she believes NCLB is a plot to create a generation of mindless factory workers in a nation losing all its factories. To me, it seems like a simple-minded, lowest-common-denominator attempt to measure intellectual development. She's completely turned against Obama based on this one issue alone. I know this is off track, but education, or poor and selective education, seem related to almost every problem we face. I see the results of selective and biased self-education all over the place. Do you have a perspective? A PM is okay if this thread isn't the place.

(I'm going to have a tough time posting on DU. So many issues seem interrelated to me, and I've seen complaints that posts are off the subject of the OP.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. I am not a teacher

I taught Paramedics (in Mexico) at one time. I taught kids for a semester at Sunday School.

But when I tried to ahem TEACH, I got a masters in History and such, I could not get in. Don't know the right people.

But from looking at NCLB it is exactly that... a plot to bring down education AND to break the union. And they will use it to fire more teachers, the experienced ones in particular. That way a new school system can be created that will do what they want. Way too many "liberals" still remain in those teaching posts.

Yes, I have been told to reach for the tin foil hat. Read Madfloridian's journal for details on this, But Arne Duncan is up to no good in my view of course.

And it is not about drones... it is about NOT teaching kids how to think or about history or rights. That way it is easier to control a population. Both Gibson and Orwell were right here.

[Marr]

46. Not necessarily. Look at Mexico.

They've been in our 1920's for a very, very long time. When people don't think they can make it any better, when their will is broken, when they think wild inequality is just the natural condition of life... you can maintain that state for a long time.

I'd say the national character is much different now than it was in the 20's. We've got a kind of mindless, apathetic servility. People have been trained to believe that wealth is a sign of righteousness or superiority, and that protest means having a nice little parade.

[skeptical cynic]

56. It does seem that we suffer from excessive respect for

those in positions of authority. Activism--real activism that inconveniences people and upsets the status quo--just isn't in vogue--it's quite impolite, you know.

I've read some advocating of respect for office if not the person. I think this perspective is a bit revolting--the kind of argument that could just as easily justify acceptance of more extreme circumstances and more despotic "leaders." We've forgotten that elected officials, including the President, are just hired hands in our system, sent to do what they promised they'd do in exchange for votes. If they don't deliver, we can toss them out next time around, and we're under no obligation to sit by quietly and let them do whatever they please until then.

I think the problem is, at least in part, pacification through fear, misinformation, and distractions. But there also seems to be a willingness to submit to authority that troubles me. Pacification, in the long run, is voluntary submission.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Reaching for the historian hat and all that

Mexico has not been stuck in our twenties

It actually has one of the strongest union systems in LatAm, and for LatAm until recently the highest standard of living for LatAm. Recently means until NAFTA, and that is not a coincidence either.

Things started really going downhill when our favorite neo liberal (De La Madrid) and his cronies got power back in the 1980s... Portillo was bad, since he was just an old aparatchtick, but De La Madrid was a neo lib. by the way, current president of Mexico... where do you think Calderon got his Economics schooling? If you said Chicago, go get your candy.

[Matariki]

40. My partners company just went to a 4 day week

with a corresponding pay cut of course. He's actually happy with it though, so far.

[2Design]

48. unions are the only reason people got 5 day weeks, holidays, and sick leave

people just don't get it
Europe has a much better plan for its people

[AngryAmish]

53. This is why i'm not a worker

It would really cut into my drinking time. What is that old saying...Work is the curse of the drinking class?

[My Good Babushka]

54. Unfortunate for everyone

That our first instinct is to sneer and say "so what I already work six days a week!" then they run back into the woodwork. You can't get anyone to mobilize for shit anymore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Nope because they work three jobs and such

never mind that people worked seven days, 18 hours and FOUND THE TIME.

[tammywammy]

82. I'm still curious what unions are agreeing to the 40hr/6 day work week. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Look above, your answer is there

and yes SOME unions are NOW doing this...

I guess this should be BREAKING news... alas we do not live in a country with a Labor media

[tammywammy]

99. Okay you said USPS

I looked at the APWU, UNI and AFL-CIO homepages and see nothing about a 6 day work week. Would you like to be more specific on what union is agreeing to a 40 hr/6 day work week?

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. United States Postal Servive

there are like 20 unions... and all of them ARE.

Not that you will believe me since well, like shit, nobody is breaking news on this.

Quick, call CNN... hold it, you mean CNN will not cover a labor issue? Call MSNBC... wait nobody will touch this?

When was the last time News had a LABOR beat?

If you said 1970s.

By the way, the MOST recent contract that I found in my hubby's union website was the 2000 contract... care to tell me when that one was still like in place? Yes, they are THAT BAD updating.

[tammywammy]

116. Okay, so there are 20 unions agreeing to a 6 day/40 hr work week, but you won't tell who they are

I've looked at the APWU, NALC, NRLCA and NPMHU pages and all their front pages are updated to include March news, and I would think moving to a 6 day work week would be quite big news and I can't find it.

I'm asking you who's doing this in order to research more on it. The only main topic on all 4 of those websites is the push to maintain the 6 day delivery schedule.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. And I am telling you the unions in question

have not updated their sites either... talk to your POSTAL worker.

I am serious. Perhaps he\she will feel at ease to talk to you about it.


You think I have anything to gain by telling you that this is going on? And that morale sucks...

Personally I have nothing to gain here...

[cali]

86. no line. no story about this at all. why should anyone believe this?

Because YOU say so?

[Enrique]

87. 'for those of you not in unions, don't be shocked if you will have to work 6 days a week'

I think workers in unions endure much worse than this already. Especially these days with jobs so hard to come by, non-unionized workers are being pushed to the limits of the law, and beyond.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. I know we are getting close to the point

where people will have to individually and COLLECTIVELY make a decision on what to do. Essentially nothing or "take to the streets" in whatever form this will take in the 21st century.

[Skittles]

88. LOL - five day week

yeah I work 5 nights - 12 hours a pop and have been doing so for some time

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Wait, according to some on this site, since this is not like breaking news

this is NOT happening.

:-)

I know, pitiful ain't it?

[Skittles]

98. so many DUers are so freaking clueless

it is VERY disconcerting

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Willfully so too

They will wake up when it happens to them... maybe.

[whistler162]

90. okay so far no link and no evidence just a jibberish rant!

followed by a escallating diatribe of attempted defense with still no links or evidence!

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Because we all know the press will run with this story

:sarcasm:

And we have a free press with a labor page, let alone a labor paper in every major city in the US...

Tell me, when was the last time your local paper had a reporter do the Labor beat?

Don't take my word for it, but when the same happens to you... don't expect me to believe you either... oh wait, since I am seeing it RIGHT NOW I will... and will ask what took for you to buy a clue? PERSONAL EXPERIENCE?

And no, this is not a diatribe... but this is yet more evidence why this country NEEDS a good history of labor... not that Americans will bother readying it.

[troubledamerican]

101. "Got a link" is the latest COINTELPRO meme silencing tactic. You want a mainstream media link

for an issue the mainstream media is not interested in covering?

Newspapers until the mid-1970s used to have both a "LABOR" section and a "BUSINESS" section. "GOT A LINK TO A 404 PHENOMENON THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE?" How fucking stupid.

Go back to LGF.

[petronius]

123. It's also standard internet shorthand for "Do you have some supporting evidence

for your somewhat surprising statements?"

And generally, when someone asserts facts that are unknown to the readers, it's not unfair to expect something more than "Because I told you."

:shrug:

[Contrary1]

125. And even it's not covered by the media...

one would think that it could be found in a blog, bulletin board, or another forum besides this one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. If you wait at least six months

perhaps any of the relevant organzations will update it. Given that the current contract posted is ten years out of date...

:-)

Perhaps they will post the CURRENT one the moment the next one is finally negotiated.

And no, I am NOT kidding.

I spent all of last week looking for info on this, which I happen to know from first hand sources, as in the affected people, on the relevant websites.

So whatever.

[snooper2]

147. I know,...makes for a great fucking thread though doesn't it

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[guitar man]

92. 5 day week

40 hour week...I wish I knew what those things were. Sure, I work 40 at my main job but I've been hustling and moonlighting on the side for so long I don't know what a mere 40 hours or 5 days looks like anymore. Over the last few weeks my side work has taken off like a rocket. I took the day off of my day gig last Friday and wound up working a 21 hour day at my "side gigs" :crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Wait, this is not happening to you eitehr

it is not in any paper anywhere... and if this is not in the paper it never happened.

I know, pitiful, isn't it?

[guitar man]

100. Paper or no paper

My job was paying, eh, ok, until my family health insurance more than doubled in 3 years and I went 2 straight years without a raise. I can sit around and wait for hcr that might not amount to anything or I can get off my butt and make extra money. I may wind up making the side biz into a full time gig and tell the job to pound sand when all is said and done. If I'm going to work way over 40 anyway might as well work for myself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. Ok not to tell you not to do well for yourslf

but NOT YOU, the nation, this is what is part of the problem. We are all looking up for number ONE, and not for the WE... and this is why we are all collectively being taken for a ride.

I have tried to wake up people up about this for a good while, but I guess this is not working, So I guess I'd better get used to the we will be taken up to the cleaners and nobody gives a fuck about COLLECTIVE action.

[guitar man]

139. Oh I agree

I came from a union family, worked a union job or two myself over the years. It sickens me to see everything my father and grandfather fought so hard for working people to have pissed away. It started with Reagan and the decay in worker equity continues right to this day. It's pathetic :grr:

[Ilsa]

97. Everyone I know with a salaried job is working

over 50 hours a week. They are all exhausted. Every time they hear that the Productivity statistics go up, they cringe, knowing they are doing the jobs of at least 1.25 people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. And it is high time we all collectively take a stand

the time was a while ago, but better late than never.

[xultar]

144. +1

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

145. self delete (n/t)

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Problem is that stories like what I just referred to

which once WERE breaking news in like the paper, are no longer printed there. But folks are well trained to thinking that if it ain't in the paper, it didn't happen.

Fine training we got going as a nation.

:hi:

And what is published, it is anti union. I mean them teachers at the NEA are the problem, doncha know? Priming the way to busting another union.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Dawn]

118. K&R - Wake up sheeple!

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. They won't if it is not in the press

it did not happen.

Ah what is the word I am looking for... rather phrase...

Manufacturing of Consent...

[Hannah Bell]

132. you've made three assertions in this thread & refuse to provide evidence for any of them.

i call bullshit.

there's always evidence -- even discussion on a union website, ltte, etc.

i wonder why you're posting this?

the swine flu panic didn't play out like it was supposed to?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

146. I wouldn't mind a 40hr 6 day week.

It would make getting a second part time job alot easier.
Work 2 jobs, still get a 1.5 day weekend. :)

For manufacturing or real labor type jobs... the 6/40 seems like a TERRIBLE proposition for owners and management. Even if you get to cut out one morning and/or afternoon break. Starting the day and ending the day at most jobs that, you know, require people to actually DO something takes time as soaks up overhead. The 4/40 schedule means you only spend time opening & closeing 4 times a week instead of 5 or 6. Less overhead. This is not a big issue for computer jockeys or pencil pushers because there's no real set-up or closing proceedure/time with office type jobs. Office work (which is almost exclusively non-union) is about the only sector a 6/40 would make sense in.

[GoneOffShore]

149. I haven't had a five day week since we started our own business.

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. As a bidness owner it is a different play ground

you understand that right?

[GoneOffShore]

173. I totally do. And we have only 2 employees - each other.

[loudsue]

150. Workers need to start buying out the companies they are working for.

Or forming worker-owned companies to compete with the big boys. Mondragon is the 3rd largest corporation (if I remember correctly) in Spain, and is entirely employee owned. One person, one vote, whether you're upper management or the janitor. Workers need to start working collectively in every way or we're all going to be slaves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. Good luck doing that in this country

where the corporation rules...

I am really down on this. If it is not in papers, it did not happen, never mind we are living through it RIGHT NOW... but since it ain't in the fucking paper (which has a labor page really :sarcasm:) then it ain't happening. People are so damn fucking stupid!!!! And chiefly WILLFULLY blind.

I am serious, I am at the point of just plain out giving the fuck up. There is no way of changing a thing in a country that has been so deeply propagandized...

Yep, I give up, the fucking neo cons have won! Try to make enough not to starve, that is the way we are going. Soon child labor will be back and somebody here will justify it too.

All this morning I was debating whether to actually sit down and WRITE a book on the history of labor. But why bother? The intended market (that would be labor) will not read it, really... I mean that would be like commie and such, and labor has been fully degilitimized here
... and the rest will make fun of it. And that assumes finding a publisher in our current environment.

There is a saying that the capitalist will sell the rope that will be used to hang him. Well in the US labor has made that rope, has braided that rope, is tying the knot and willfully will walk to the gallows... and a so-called liberal site makes fun of labor all the damn time.

[Codeine]

159. My ignore list is LOVING this thread! nt