Should meth be legalized and regulated/taxed?

[apples and oranges]

Should all drugs be legalized or just some? How do we determine which drugs should be legal?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. How do you determine which drugs should be legalized?

How about drugs that are perfectly safe, like marijuana, be legalized.

Drugs that are dangerous, like meth, be decriminalized so that people suffering from their effects can seek help, instead of just spiraling down the futile cycle that is the war on drugs.

[Jennicut]

5. That is the solution right there.

Go after the big suppliers if you want but the people who are just addicted need treatment, not jail.

[apples and oranges]

9. Not all studies show marijuana to be "perfectly safe"

Just sayin'

[JuniperLea]

18. No drug is "perfectly safe" for all people...

Marijuana is pretty damn benign compared to most.

[SidDithers]

25. Neither is water...

neither is oxygen
neither are McRib Sandwiches.

Sid

[LanternWaste]

30. I do imagine one needs oxygen to survive...

However, I do imagine one needs oxygen to survive unlike McRibs or pot.

[SidDithers]

31. Sez you...

:hi:

Actually, there's a certain synergy with pot and McRibs :)

Sid

[LanternWaste]

35. McRibs? Sacrilege, indeed!

McRibs? Sacrilege, indeed! The real synergy arrives with the consumption of fig newtons.

Or so I've heard...

[nebenaube]

42. but

50 million Americans have one form of auto-immune disease or another, often with multiple homeostatic systems under attack. They were born with these conditions that don't strike until after 35 years of age. Then their immune system begin to wage war on the host. I've read most of the 'Science' and sorry but I have come to the conclusion that 'Science' doesn't get to claim that pot transiently suppresses immunity and then turn around and claim it has no medical value.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Yeah, they do.

Marijuana's perfectly safe by any credible definition.

Knock off the creationist pseudoscience nonsense.

[Caliman73]

39. I am not sure about perfectly safe, but I agree with the rest.

Marijuana has less potential for harm than just about any other drug, but it is not perfectly safe for all people. That said, it should be legal and regulated as it is at least as safe if not way safer than Alcohol.

As you said, drugs with high potential for abuse should be decriminalized so that people who are affected by their use can be treated and not warehoused in prison. Save the prisons for people who commit acts of violence and who need to be separated from society for its protection.

[blondeatlast]

62. It really is as simple as that. nt

[Fumesucker]

66. Alcohol is dangerous

It should be decriminalized, just like during alcohol Prohibition.

Possession and consumption of alcohol was not illegal during alcohol Prohibition, only manufacture, sale and importation.

[ThomThom]

82. first you have to define what is a drug

Is caffeine from beans or leaves soaked in hot water a drug?
Are plants the grow naturally in nature like tobacco, marijuana, poppy, coca (cocaine leaves), cocoa (chocolate beans) drugs?
Or are drugs man made chemical compounds?
All things have some effect on the body carbs, fats, oils, exercise, music, everything so how do we decide what we can and can't put in our bodies or is it a personal choice?
I think we should be allowed to decide for our selves, in fact I think we have a constitutional right to make these choices for ourselves. I think all drug laws are unconstitutional and to take it a step further we should be able to self medicate with all drugs.
Things that grow naturally in nature should not be called drugs and should not be regulated as drugs.

edited to add ... alcohol is fermented grains it took a constitutional amendment to ban it and history tell us what terrible problems were caused by this bit of foolishness. If the people want something we must be very careful in prohibitions.

[Gman]

2. Meth? For what ADD or ADHD??

Meth has no good use while it's illegal. That won't change if it's legal.

[Flaneur]

23. Methamphetamine is a Schedule II controlled substance.

Sold under the brand name Desoyxn, manufactured by Abbott Labs, I think. It gets prescribed for narcolepsy, ADHD, and "exogenous obesity."

[Gman]

72. I wonder if Abbott labs makes it in a bathtub?

I wouldn't be surprised if they patented it. It's something that, back in the 70's anyone that had Organic Chemistry could make and knew how. That would be taking something in the public domain and patenting it. Microsoft does the same thing.

[Flaneur]

73. I'm sure the legal meth supply is produced in pristine lab conditions.

There's another one of those pesky downsides to the prohibitionist approach: It pushes those speed freaks to cook their own, with all the dire results we already know. If they could get it by prescription, they probably wouldn't be cooking it up.

[Hannah Bell]

40. uh: Methamphetamine, brand name (Desoxyn) a psychostimulant drug which is FDA approved...

Methamphetamine, known by the brand name Desoxyn, is a psychostimulant drug which is FDA approved for the treatment of ADHD and exogenous obesity.<2>

Methamphetamine is currently a Schedule II substance of the Controlled Substances Act in the United States. Drugs that are listed as Schedule II substances, such as methamphetamine, are drugs that are recognized to have clinically accepted medical usage, but have a high risk for abuse.<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine_(medical)

[Gman]

71. I am quite familiar with Crank

They can give it a brand name and the FDA can approve it, but it's still Crank and I've seen what it can do to people. The amphetamine salts used in drugs like Adderal are OK. Meth is not. That's the same drug that, in the 60's, for which the phrase was coined "speed kills".

[Winterblues]

3. There was a day not long ago that it was

And believe it or not we did not have near the problems we now have with drugs. :shrug:

[Romulox]

10. In fact the US has no record of any major drug violence problems until the early 20th century...

Odd. :shrug:

[DJ13]

4. Coca Cola just aint the same without the Cocaine

[KansDem]

6. Meth seems to have a rather onus air about it

I don't recall cannabis having this effect on its user...

[apples and oranges]

15. That's not the same person. No way...

[KansDem]

21. I googled "meth faces"

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=meth%20faces&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Several other examples as well...

[comrade snarky]

22. Don't have much experience with meth addiction I see

That could easily be the same person 2 and a half years later. I've seen changes like that in a friend.

Meth is one of the only drugs I don't want to see legalized. I'd rather see medically pure heroin for sale at 7-11 than have meth easily available. Heroin is, in my experience, far less destructive. With heroin you can do what's called a maintenance dose where you don't really get high but the addiction is fed and you can function. Like going on Methadone without switching from heroin. I've never heard of anyone being able to do that with meth.

Going after users is stupid though. They're victims of an nasty addiction and need help. Producers? Yeah, I actually have no problem with that being illegal. Not only is the drug dangerous but the manufacturing process is horribly toxic and a huge fire hazard. I've smelled a math lab and seen the people who were running it and using their own product. I wouldn't trust them to make bread much less handle toxic substances.

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. Here's a link for you. Go see the other three people shown on the website.

http://www.facesofmeth.us/main.htm

[nebenaube]

43. please note

This is the result of poor quality control that is characteristic of any powdered street drug and not just the abuse of said subject. Should a cleaner version be made legal and available? Fuck NO!

[Romulox]

7. Absolutely not. A "War on Drugs" is the only scientifically proven method of preventing drug use

:shrug:

[yellowcanine]

8. I thought it said, "Should MATH be legalized and taxed?" And I thought, "What a great idea!"

Not sure how it would work but it is a great concept.

[8 track mind]

38. Gilda Radner moment

Never Mind!

[ericinne]

11. NO

No way, Meth kills, weed doesn't. That's the simple apples to oranges comparison. I guess yes you can argue alcohol does too (kills), but even the worse alcoholic doesn't fiend for the stuff so much that they would take enough to kill themselves (right away).

Not that I am defending alcohol either. I'm not a drinker myself, maybe a couple times a year, but I have seen people abuse it. But never to the degree of Meth. I've watched too many of my friends, and even a family member deteriorate because of Meth. It wouldn't matter to me if it was 100% legal, I'd still advocate against that shit.. and to me, that's all Meth is and all it will ever be... SHIT.

[Catshrink]

12. Have you ever seen "meth mouth?"

[Subdivisions]

13. ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Suffices to say, I know what I'm talking about.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

14. No. Meth is a terrible destructive drug. Of course not all drugs should be legalized.

Meth is extremely addictive and not natural whatsoever.

Also, legalization of any drug should not mean carte blanche legalization either.
Legalized narcotics should still be regulated as well(like alcohol and tobacco).

The choice to ban drugs should be based on a combination of:
Addictiveness
Destructiveness (physiological)
Phychological effect (severity of impact)
Probability & ease of Overdose
Any other extraneous or unusual detrimental societal effects

Too much weight in one particular category or too high of a cumulative weight and the drug should be illegal.

[sufrommich]

16. No. nt

[JuniperLea]

17. Oh jeez...

No, and neither should huffing Pam... honestly... sometimes I just don't get DU.

[Tippy]

19. Until recenlty our County was over run with meth cookers.....For a long time we were # 1 in the na

According to last nights paper the Sheriff seems to think he has preformed a miracle...Meth gone (yea right) now it's perscription drugs. He is running for his third term as sheriff. The amount of meth used and cooked here is just as bad a it ever was he is lieing to the voters. While it is true there are fewer meth labs in use in homes. Most cookers are now cooking out of their cars.

Should meth be leagalized?...NO WAY...they should however leagalize pot. It they did that I believe we would see a big drop in those who use meth and perscription drugs.

I don't smoke pot, so I an not supporting leagaslization for myself.

[Dreamer Tatum]

20. Let's legalize it in your town and check back in 6 months

Meth is a disaster. A pure disaster.

Why not legalize PCP, while we're at it?

[apples and oranges]

45. So you are for the war on drugs?

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. That's an unfair generalization. I support a war on meth.

I've been smoking pot for nigh on 35 years. No problems. I tooted and smoked meth for a year or two... went through three jobs, couldn't sleep, couldn't function unless I got more.

Meth has fucked the lives of everyone I know who got addicted to it. Pure and simple.

[Dreamer Tatum]

56. The war on meth, hell yes.

Absolutely, all day long.

Quote me on it.

[Flaneur]

68. You want to imprison people for ingesting drugs of which you do not approve?

I say no one should be criminalized for what they put in their body absent harm to others.

Taking meth and neglecting your kids. That's child abuse.

Taking meth and driving. That's DUID.

Taking meth and ripping stuff off. That's theft or burglary or robbery.

Taking meth and staying up all night doodling. Not my business, nor should it be the state's business.

[Dreamer Tatum]

69. Meth doesn't kill people! PEOPLE kill people!

Heh. Whatever, dude.

[Swamp Rat]

24. There's no stopping meth production and use, unless humans stop making the precursors:

Phosphorus (white, red, etc.) and Ephedrine, plus assorted catalysts.

... I doubt this will ever happen.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. News flash: "Some drugs" are already legal. Like alcohol & nicotine.

And relative safety and/or addictiveness has very little to do with the determination of legality.

So it's not a question of whether some drugs should be legal- some already are.

Here's my take: Right off the bat, Legalize and tax marijuana. No question. I think, by WHATEVER standards one uses to determine whether a drug should be legal, something that doesn't kill people, has been deemed (by a DEA official, no less) as one of the "most pharmacalogically benign substances known to man", and is eating up the VAST MAJORITY of drug war expenditures- and which would be a significant source of revenue if legalized and taxed- we should all be able to agree that it's ludicrous to continue to criminalize it.

(Get that? Pot- not meth- is where the lion's share of your "drug war" tax dollar goes. How do you like them apples?)

As for drugs which are undeniably harmful- like meth- I think the "drug war" approach has proven to be a failure. I think adopting an education/treatment on demand/"harm reduction" strategy a la the netherlands would be at least as successful as our current approach to the problem. Maybe we continue to prosecute dealers, offer treatment for users.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

75. You mean like alcohol, nicotine and methamphetamine.

[craigmatic]

27. No not meth just the mostly harmless ones like marijuana

[Oregone]

29. How about just unprocessed drugs?

Poppies, marijuana, coca, shrooms?

Sounds like a reasonable start point.

[kctim]

32. Yes, all should be

[Warpy]

33. We all know it's a really bad drug but yes, along with all other

recreational drugs. Keep the supply clean, the dosages standard, and as far from kids as we can.

Face it, the pipeline to kids is wide open now. Black marketers and drug gangs don't give a shit who they sell to as long as it's not a cop. They know kids aren't cops.

Take the profit out of it, kill gang income around the world, and end a lot of street crime.

The great white nanny system has not worked. It's time to try something else.

[The Northerner]

34. People's bodies are their properties

and thus if they want to ingest whatever, let them do it.

but, if they want to harm themselves it's not the government's responsibility to bail them out.

everyone knows alcohol is bad but society allows alcohol to be purchased and used despite its potential dangerous effects.

who bears responsibility if people intentionally ingest alcohol and possibly damage their livers or die of alcohol poisoning? their responsibilities.

let people decide for themselves.

lastly, prohibition sucks and fails so let's not repeat it.

[nebenaube]

36. Just one...

Cannabis

[Sebastian Doyle]

37. Meth should be eliminated from the face of the planet

It's the one drug I can't have any sort of compassion or mercy for whatsoever, because it literally turns people into raving goddamn lunatics, and that brain damage is permanent.

Of course if other drugs were legal, nobody would be using this shit in the first place.

[Hannah Bell]

41. meth = fda-approved for treatment of adhd & obesity.

Methamphetamine, known by the brand name Desoxyn, is a psychostimulant drug which is FDA approved for the treatment of ADHD and exogenous obesity.<2>

Methamphetamine is currently a Schedule II substance of the Controlled Substances Act in the United States. Drugs that are listed as Schedule II substances, such as methamphetamine, are drugs that are recognized to have clinically accepted medical usage, but have a high risk for abuse.<3>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine_(medical)

[apples and oranges]

47. Interesting

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. I feel a certain amount of enjoyment...

listening to you rail against raving brain damaged lunatics.

:rofl:

[Sebastian Doyle]

49. Says the guy who snorts lines of RoundUp in his cubicle

because it's free.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. Case in point.

[GreenTea]

44. I want my LSD -

I don't want to spend money on a trip to Italy & Greece or the south seas - I'll just cruise the cosmos in my mind...."Total Recall" - Done it hundreds of times, I've had just as great of time & memories yet a hell of a lot fucking cheaper than I spent on my trips to Central America the UK, Australia and Thailand....could of gotten a DVD of those countries for those outrageously expensive trips...I'm a travel-agents nightmare now....happy traveling in my own mind, back to work the next day with a smile on my face and lots more money in my pocket instead of someone else....Think I'll have some great-take Chinese food from a fine restaurant I know tonight, get a DVD of traveling in China - drop a hit - Go for a run on the beach in the morning, head to work and have a great day....

[Cetacea]

80. Classic Pinder/Moodies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lJMpzbOA4

Fantastic audio of "Om"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIv6ro1Yfuo&feature=related

And Harrison/Beatles on travel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsBmxblc7c&feature=related

[Xenotime]

46. All should be legal.

[superduperfarleft]

50. Yes.

We already have laws concerning criminal acts committed while under the influence of drugs, and criminalizing the actual act of ingesting the drug does nothing but fill prisons with people that need medical treatment, not punishment.

[ZombieHorde]

51. I think meth should be legal. Why not? nt

[Mopar151]

58. I see you've never met a Crank Monster

One of the big problems is what happens when it gets mixed with large amounts of alcahol. About 72 hours into one of these benders is when you find people drivin' with .4 BAC's and a loaded gun on the seat - and 2 scared kids in the back.

[ZombieHorde]

74. Why punish everyone for the actions of the few?

I used to shoot meth and I never did anything like that.

[Mopar151]

76. Who's payin for repairs when your head blows up?

Or your lab catches fire? Or you go off the rails and shoot your neighbors?

[ZombieHorde]

81. The same people who do now. nt

[lame54]

52. No - just keep building prisons - problem solved

the land of the free :banghead:

[Greyhound]

57. Well, since you've worded your title in the most inflammatory way possible,

I guess you're really not interested in a discussion.

[apples and oranges]

70. How is my title inflammatory?

[hunter]

59. The legal system does a rotten job treating drug addiction.

They also turn it into a violent business with cash flows fueling rampant corruption. This happens when any drug is outlawed. It happened with alcohol during prohibition and it would happen with tobacco if tobacco was outlawed.

We ought to be looking strictly at harm reduction. We ought to have medical specialists trained in harm reduction running free clinics where these drugs are easily available as part of a comprehensive approach to treatment. Yes, this would mean any addict could walk into a clinic and get any drug they are addicted to for use in a safe environment. And yes, there would be people who would never be able to quit, just as there are alcoholics and smokers who never quit. But even then these lifetime addicts wouldn't be out on the streets destroying themselves and committing the crimes that ultimately support violent drug gangs.

If our society can agree that alcohol, tobacco and caffeine ought to be legal, there are quite a few drugs with similar or lesser adverse effects that ought to be legal too including maybe khat, codeine and marijuana. Maybe if we had legal over-the-counter drugs representing the broad range of "highs" drug addicts seek then maybe we wouldn't have such problems with the more wretched drugs like meth. Maybe we ought to be looking to legalize the least harmful drug in every category of "high" that humans tend to seek.

"Buy or grow your own, no refining" might be a good rule too. "Here you go, sir, some dried and flavored vegetation, sold in this convenient tin."

The "War on Drugs" kills and harms many innocent bystanders. This war is as unethical as any other war and we need to end it.

[gulliver]

60. Yes

All drugs should be legalized. The question is not whether legalized drugs will or won't do harm. They will definitely do a ton of harm. Look at alcohol. The only question is whether legalizing drugs will be a net benefit to society. I think it will.

Making drugs illegal doesn't stop drug use. I doubt drug use would even go up very much if all drugs were legal. It might even go down. Drugs were not illegal through most of world history. We survived.

Drug laws fracture society, ruin lives, are gateways to more serious crime.

[Flaneur]

61. Meth is an All-American drug. We loves us our stimulants.

First we had little pick-me-ups like cocaine tonics. Then we had cocaine. When we banned cocaine nearly a century ago, it took about 10 years for the pharmaceutical companies to start marketing amphetamines. When we decided amphetamines were bad, they started coming up with stuff like Adderall and Ritalian and other amphetamine-type stimulants.

We are the land of 10 zillion coffee houses. Stimulant.

Go to the convenience store. There are aisles of Red Bull and Rock Star and little stimulant pill packs. More stimulants.

They help us work more and be more productive and live the American Dream.

[Flaneur]

63. Yes, meth should be legalized.

No one should be criminalized for what they put in their bodies, absent harm to others.

That said, legalization does not necessarily imply that you are able to just walk into the 7-11 and buy some. We regulate different legal drugs differently depending on what they do. Coffee is virtually unregulated, alcohol has age and time of sale restrictions, tobacco has age restrictions. We could regulate marijuana, for instance, relatively loosely, while regulating more potentially harmful drugs, like meth or heroin, more tightly.

We could require that users be licensed and undergo an education course, like many locales do with gun ownership.

We could require that meth be sold only by specialized pharmacists who could interact with consumers.

We could require that meth be made available only on prescription, with a doctor supervising the patient/user.

It is only lack of imagination that keeps us in this prohibition mode. Yes, meth can have adverse consequences, but meth under prohibiton only makes all the problems worse.

[TZ]

64. LOL!

Most of the same people who want recreational drugs regulated scream about Big Pharma selling "poison" to people, yet are okay with known fatal and destructive drugs being unregulated and freely available! The hypocrisy here is astounding- getting high is okay...Regulated and tested drugs that are meant to help EVUL!

[Flaneur]

65. Smells like a canard. Please demonstrate what you claim.

[Fumesucker]

67. Alcohol is legal, but it is regulated and controlled..

Alcohol is also a recreational drug.

[Lilith Velkor]

77. All drugs should be legal, taxed and regulated

I mean actually regulated, not the system of legalized bribery current drug companies enjoy.

[DiverDave]

78. NO!

That crap is a killer.
Ruins lives and generations of people.

Not just no, but HELL NO!

[theHandpuppet]

79. Hell NO

Just HELL NO!