Obama offers his vision for improving education

[HeresyLives]

When a Rhode Island school superintendent fired every teacher at one underperforming high school last month, U.S. President Barack Obama not only congratulated the administrator, he invited others across the country to emulate her.
“If a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn't show signs of improvement, then there's got to be a sense of accountability,” the President charged.

It was a brutal signal to five million public school teachers across the United States that their unions’ hearty endorsement of Mr. Obama in the 2008 race for the White House did not win them any brownie points with the would-be “education president.”

-snip-


And a lack of meaningful cross-country standards and a common basic curriculum are an economic disaster in the making – if not an already unfolding one – with American students falling to the bottom quartile among developed countries in math and science, according to the Program for International Student Assessment. Canada was second in science and fifth in math, based on the latest PISA scores from 2006.

“American 15-year-olds no longer even near the top in math and science when compared to their peers around the world,” the President lamented in his weekend Internet address. “We’ve now fallen behind most wealthy countries in our high school graduation rates. And while we once led the world in the proportion of college graduates we produced, today we no longer do.”


-snip-

On its own, Mr. Obama’s policy is not any more likely than No Child to produce a sea change in public education, Prof. Schmidt said. But combined with a proposal released last week by 48 states to develop a “common core” curriculum (the term “national standards” is verboten among the states), it could help turn the tide in favour of better outcomes.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/obama-offers-his-vision-for-improving-education/article1501547/

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[MichiganVote]

1. One word Mr. President....its called poverty. We have it, we deny it.

[HeresyLives]

2. You think this is the biggest problem

for the majority?

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. The majority of our 'failing' schools - yes

[HeresyLives]

6. America is one of the rich countries.

Other rich countries don't appear to have this problem.

[Fire1]

7. Such irony. n/t

[HeresyLives]

8. Such mystery. n/t

[Fire1]

10. Not really. There will always be poverty. Even in the "richest

nation in the world."

[HeresyLives]

13. Poverty is everywhere, but it doesn't affect

education outcomes like it seems to in the US.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Other rich countries provide health care to their people too

[HeresyLives]

14. The majority of Americans have health care.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. LOL

That's funny.

[HeresyLives]

19. It's also true.

[MichiganVote]

23. America is fucked up and full of debt. We are debt rich and value poor.

[HeresyLives]

27. Downturn only happened recently.

What happened during all those boom years?

[MichiganVote]

45. You haven't been paying attention to the labor/wage issues of the last 30 years.

There are no "boom" years for poor kids living in crap housing, eating non nutritious foods and wearing society's cast off's from Walmart. Poverty affects achievement. Period.

[HeresyLives]

50. You have been doing just fine overall.

[MichiganVote]

54. "Overall" what? Your comment is non sensical to me.

[HeresyLives]

56. Like I said...English skills

[MichiganVote]

61. I think this is the part where the mods delete. And not for your lack of logic.

[HeresyLives]

63. Well if you'd stuck to the topic....

[MichiganVote]

65. Sure its my fault. God I must be an educator! Certainly can't be you.

[HeresyLives]

67. Then perhaps you've put your finger on the problem.

[MichiganVote]

68. Your problem anyway Sugar. Good luck. Enjoy the further decline of America.

[HeresyLives]

71. The 'decline of America' is not my problem. It's yours.

[MichiganVote]

73. Again...you are not apying attention to global economics..which is where we began this disc.

[HeresyLives]

76. I have worked with globalization for years.

And the discussion...if you can call it that...is about Obama's plan for reviving American schools. Not global economics

[MichiganVote]

80. Every pencil, textbook and lunch served is about global economics.

[HeresyLives]

81. Americans are having a tough time coping with

global economics. Mostly they discuss America.

As you are doing.

[MichiganVote]

85. Yeah because other parts of the world are like so comfy with it. That's why we bailed out banks

overseas. Sure makes perfect sense.

[HeresyLives]

88. Like I said, globalization confuses you.

Other countries have been doing it for some years.

[Political Heretic]

39. Other "rich" countries have lower levels of poverty.

:shrug:

Connection? I don't know, but there it is.

[HeresyLives]

52. Kindly stop blaming this on the small percentage of poor.

[Political Heretic]

113. "Small" is relative.

[HeresyLives]

115. It doesn't affect your entire country.

[MadHound]

57. Rich country? Wow, where have you been lately? Checked out the old bank account lately?

The US is broke, beyond broke, in some serious debt trouble that is only going to get worse. We're currently cutting funding to all social service programs, including schools.

It would help if we stopped these illegal, immoral wars, but that's not going to happen, so we're going to go the way of the Soviet Union, spending far too much on our military at the expense of ordinary people.

Rich, yeah, right.

[HeresyLives]

60. Downturn is recent for the umpteenth time.

[MadHound]

70. Still, the fact remains that we're trillions of dollars in debt,

This is the third year of the recession, programs are being cut, states are going bankrupt, and more pain is on the way.

We were a rich country, we are now circling the drain and we are well on our way to becoming a poor country.

Sorry you don't like the truth, but it is still the truth.

[HeresyLives]

74. The US has been in debt since day one.

And this isn't the 'third year'. The crash only happened in 2009.

[MadHound]

86. Yes, but trillions of dollars in debt?

Even accounting for inflation the answer is no, not even close.

And yes, for three years now. Go check the numbers, things were going downhill starting in 2007. Yeah, the economic wizards didn't call it a recession until December of that year, but that was after 2 quarters of negative growth. And frankly they didn't admit it until mid 2008.

[HeresyLives]

90. Even thousands were a lot at one time.

If you want to you can make a good case for going downhill since WWII, but the current problem started in 2009

[MadHound]

95. Wow, dude, talk about denial

"The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy ."

<http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/01/news/economy/recession/index.htm>

Look, if you want to keep those rose colored classes on, fine. Just don't expect to be treated like you have any sort of real credibility by a lot of people around here.

[HeresyLives]

97. Your current problem began in 2009

[MadHound]

101. My current problem?

Well, if by that you mean the Obama administration, I would have to agree with you. But as I've just shown you, this recession, this economic downturn, it began in 2007. Why are you having such a tough time with that concept?

[HeresyLives]

102. Yes, your personal current problem, the one

about you and you alone and one else... :rofl: seems to be the inability to engage in any rational conversation.

[MadHound]

103. So says the one who think this recession only began last year. Speaking of irrational

Upon what basis are you saying that the recession only began last year?

[HeresyLives]

104. I said the 'current problem'.

You aren't IN a recession.

The US actually went broke about the same time the USSR did.

[MadHound]

105. :facepalm:

Goodnight. You've finally argued yourself around one hundred and eighty degrees, and still don't understand a damn thing. I have better things to do, like sleep.

:eyes:

[HeresyLives]

107. I think you need some, to be honest.

Maybe tomorrow you can follow a topic.

[MichiganVote]

20. Take the blinders off friend...America is NOT a rich country. We're in hoc everywhere.

To add to my comment...if you haven't lived poor as a kid, you have no idea what these kids are up against. A curriculum ain't gonna fix it. That's just a pipe dream and Obama and his buddies know it. The whole of Washington knows it. And educators sure as hell know it.

[HeresyLives]

21. You've had a recent downturn. You're not Haiti.

[MichiganVote]

24. If your standard is Haiti you've already adjusted the rose colored glasses.

America has been consumed. We are consumed with debt, with the robber barrons throughout the world and by greed. Its real and its not going to change anytime soon. Forget the flag the rah rah land of freedom. Debt is not freedom. Debt is obligation. And we don't even know what we owe.

[HeresyLives]

26. Then stop claiming to be poverty stricken. You're not.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. So are my homeless kids lying?

I guess they really live in million dollar mansions and like to pretend they don't have a home or food over the weekends.

Gotcha.

[HeresyLives]

31. The majority of kids in America aren't homeless.

Any more excuses?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. And the ones that are are not poor?

Is that what you are claiming?

[HeresyLives]

35. The majority of Americans have homes and jobs.

So homelessness isn't the problem with education.

[MichiganVote]

47. The why do we have the McKinley-Vento Act?

[HeresyLives]

55. I have no idea.

But it has nothing to do with Obama's discussion of education these last few days.

[MichiganVote]

64. Discussion? With who? All I have heard are edicts. Same as Bush.

[HeresyLives]

69. Kinda the president's job.

Especially after you gave him a mandate for change.

[MichiganVote]

72. Did I? How can you be so sure I gave him anything?

[HeresyLives]

78. Voters, Dems, Americans...kindly stop being personal.

[MichiganVote]

82. Stop being personal? That's rich coming from you kiddo.

[HeresyLives]

84. Kindly stop 'out of left field' remarks too

[MichiganVote]

89. Honey, you suggested I was poor, that I voted for and put Obama in office and a host of

other things. How IS that medication working for you anyway?

[HeresyLives]

91. Now you're just being silly.

Always a refuge when you have no answers.

[MichiganVote]

96. Your brand of silliness is continuing to drive the country into the ditch.

[HeresyLives]

99. Not possible, sorry.

I'm not IN your country.

[MichiganVote]

43. And you did not read that "I" am poverty striken. I didn't say or infer that.

[HeresyLives]

44. I didn't say you were.

I was talking about your country, not you personally. I don't even know you.

[MichiganVote]

46. Then kindly use your education to be more specific.

[HeresyLives]

49. An English speaker understands the reference.

Why on earth would I discuss you, and why on earth would you assume I would be?

[MichiganVote]

51. I have no idea. Perhaps you're in need of remedial debate skills.

[HeresyLives]

53. Or perhaps you could discuss the topic

instead of assuming the world revolves around you.

[MichiganVote]

59. Ahhhhh...did we hurt your world view feelings? So sorry to burst your bubble. Bye, Bye!

Have fun with that America the beautiful and never does wrong thing. Say hello to Palin!

[HeresyLives]

62. No, but apparently yours were.

[Political Heretic]

37. You're the Thomas Friedman was right guy, right?

Yeah, imagine my shock.

[HeresyLives]

40. Friedman knows dick about politics.

He's very good on tech and globalization tho.

And this has what...exactly...to do with the topic here?

[Political Heretic]

41. Just making sure I had my people right is all.

[HeresyLives]

42. Well you don't.

In fact you've mistaken me for a guy.

[Political Heretic]

114. Naw, I got it right.

Thanks for confirming though.

[HeresyLives]

116. Sorry, none of it is right, but hey, it's your fantasy.

[Dinger]

48. Two Words Mr. President: One-Termer

Unless you get your shit together on education.

[HeresyLives]

58. Yes, Palin will be so much better for education.

[Dinger]

75. That's Old

But if it makes you happy, what the heck.

[HeresyLives]

79. And still valid.

[Dinger]

98. Sure

:sarcasm:

[HeresyLives]

100. That was your other choice. May be again.

[MichiganVote]

77. He's already lost the NEA. He gave it up for something better. Meh..his choice

[HeresyLives]

83. He hasn't 'lost' anybody.

[Dinger]

87. Go Ahead Obama, Blow Off Our Votes

I'm sure you'll win in a HUGE landslide in 2012!:sarcasm:


Keep whistling past the old graveyard. Great strategy. After all, it won't even be close, right????

[HeresyLives]

92. Normal squabbling in any presidential term.

[Dinger]

93. Okee Dokie (nt)

[ljm2002]

4. Haven't there been studies...

...showing that we include lots more students in the overall math and science testing, therefore lowering the average score? i.e., when we compare our average scores to those of other countries, it's not apples to apples?

Personally I think this attack on the public education system is racially tinged, and it is tragic to take one of the driving institutions that has made our country great, and just rip it to shreds.

Truly tragic, and to have a Democratic president doing it just boggles the mind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. We test ALL of our kids, other countries don't

It's not at all valid to compare our test scores to theirs. Just ignore that crap. It's a distraction.

[HeresyLives]

12. Yes, actually, they do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. No actually they don't

Besides, the language difference alone is enough to invalidate the comparison.

[HeresyLives]

18. Yes actually, they do.

And language makes no difference whatever.

You think the UK and Canada speak a different language than you do?

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. You don't understand standardized testing do you?

[HeresyLives]

25. Yes, I do. I understand excuses too.

And if you're trying to claim that every other country tested, cheated, while you were true blue, that's a particularly lame excuse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I am not claiming they cheated

I have no way of knowing that.

But when we test all of our kids and they test only their college bound kids, we cannot fairly compare test scores. It's not that hard to understand.

[HeresyLives]

30. They test all their kids,

not just college bound, and to suggest otherwise means you think they're cheating.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Either post a link or I'm done with this discussion

[HeresyLives]

34. Then you're done with this discussion.

You made the accusation that other countries were cheating.

When you make an assertion or an accusation the onus is on you to prove it.

You haven't done so.

Cheers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. No you claimed they test all of their kids

I know that they don't. I have family living in foreign countries, I have taught with teachers from other countries and I have an education degree (2 actually) indicating I actually studied this subject and understand how other countries assess their kids.

Post a link proving I am wrong. That's how this works :)

[HeresyLives]

38. Your claim is right on the thread

proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-17-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #4

11. We test ALL of our kids, other countries don't
It's not at all valid to compare our test scores to theirs. Just ignore that crap. It's a distraction.


Your assertion, your accusation...and family anecdotes are worthless.

THAT'S how this works.

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. Read and learn bucko

p. 54

http://books.google.com/books?id=rjdK691aXUIC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=Berliner+and+Biddle+international+comparisons&source=bl&ots=ojqyRFv7SZ&sig=uDpMJu_be0u4TIaXKdJxhCXlz-Q&hl=en&ei=_12gS6fSBJDoM-CFwc0M&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[HeresyLives]

110. A book from the last century by 2 American psychologists???

Oh puleeze.

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. Oh punleeze yourself

We haven't changed how we test kids since that book was written. And yes, psychologists are still experts on testing. Some even work in schools TESTING KIDS. LOL

[HeresyLives]

112. In the rest of the world this is called

'American boosterism'.

Which is why these tests are done by an international body, not an American one, so there is no favoritism.

You ignored the situation back then, and now you have a worse one.

Just one more problem you've dumped on Obama.

[HelenWheels]

5. I'm ashamed of Obama

He is dead wrong on his education policies and he was dead wrong on his appointment for education secretary.

[Mari333]

15. kind of Reagan Lite, actually...destroy the unions, etc

who in gods name is consulting him..oh thats right..the right wing of the dem party...

[Dinger]

108. + 1

[salguine]

106. I can't stand the fucking sight of him any more.

[HeresyLives]

66. Well it seems no one is willing to discuss the topic,

but Obama has a genuine concern, and it has to be addressed.

You may not like the way he is doing it, however no other solutions have been offered here.

[HeresyLives]

94. The test he is discussing, btw, is PISA

It's run by the OECD... an international economic organisation of 30 countries. Most OECD members are high-income economies with a high Human Development Index (HDI) and are regarded as developed countries.

It has very strict conditions, and is carefully monitored.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment