Fool me infinitely, shame on... whom?

[lwcon]

First, progressives got suckered into believing that the wafty "public option" was:

1. An apt substitute for real health-care reform (i.e., single-payer or socialized medicine)
2. Such an exciting promise that they should ignore Obama's, Daschle's, and Baucus's outright lies about an open and transparent process that considered all options.

And now the punch line:

Even while President Obama was saying that he thought a public option was a good idea and encouraging supporters to believe his healthcare plan would include one, he had promised for-profit hospital lobbyists that there would be no public option in the final bill.

And they said irony was dead!

[LakeSamish706]

1. And don't ya just love this bullshit about there are not enough votes for a Public Option?

What crap indeed! The problem is and has always been that this Administration never had any intention of having either a single payer or public option in this bill. It is a sell out to the Insurance Industry period.

[lwcon]

5. And it's a triple sell-out

1. Lying about an open process -- single-payer was censored from day one, even as a discussion topic; secret deals with big health-industry players
2. Tricking people into believing that "public option" represented a specific policy and that it was a proper substitute for reform that would solve our actual problems
3. Pretending that he was really going to support the fake policy he tricked people into believing... and believing that he cared about it

Oh, and then there's this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

[hulka38]

2. I was a big dummy.

And may still be just less so.

[ProSense]

3. "First, progressives got suckered..."

Who exactly are you insulting?

:rofl:

[lwcon]

6. No one that hasn't been insulted already

Whether they realize it or not.

[ProSense]

8. Yeah, fools. n/t

[liberation]

42. Is this the part where you stop all sense of pretense and laugh at the face of liberals

The DLC folks are a funny bunch, nothing but contempt for liberals.... yet you feel entitled to our votes. No matter what.


Funny seeing the DLC only stay on message when it comes to abuse into submission the "uppity" liberal d'jour. However, they are not so good when it comes to actually articulate policies to benefit the average American citizen, or stand up to the GOP...

[ProSense]

75. Oh look,

people crying and whining and pretending that everybody who isn't doing so isn't progressive.

You want to consider yourself played, go right ahead.

[rhett o rick]

47. Always ready to throw gasolene on the fire. Why do you have such hatred for

progressives. Are you against single payer? or the PO?

[mmonk]

4. I'm fooled no more by the administration or party.

I will adjust accordingly to be only selective. I'm giving up all that time spent from precinct to state convention like I have done this decade. Money for candidates I like ONLY and time for THEM or like progressive organizations ONLY. No more straight ticket and blind money.

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. I hear more and more people saying that.

I know how ya feel. A painful reality.

[Greyhound]

37. Why do you think the SCOTUS had to rule that way on corporate $$$?

If they haven't already, the Democratic Party is turning to corporate bribery as their sole source of income.

Too many people see them for what they are now.

[Individualist]

9. They need to be reminded of Lincoln's quote:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

[lwcon]

10. Probably should be updated

"You can fool enough of the people enough of the time."

[tom_paine]

22. As per the sciences of behavioral and statistical psychology

Bernays' and Strauss' dreams of "enlightened despotism" always get back to the old-fashioned despotism, in the end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

[lwcon]

23. I'm still looking for the enlightment at either end of the tunnel

Not seeing much.

[dflprincess]

40. I agree with no money and no straight ticket voting

what I'm debating - and largely because I let myself get talked into getting back on the State Central Committee - is the time thing. If we don't stay active and agitating within the party it will be the final concession to the DLC/Blue Dog types. And, in Minnesota with our endorsement process, it is necessary to go to the state convention as a delegate for progressive candidates. Wellstone would not have been a senator if the liberals had not shown up.

Not that it isn't a distasteful option.

But, perhaps it is time for the Democratic wing (or in Minnesota, the Farmer-Labor wing) to march in and take the party back from the Republicrats. The structure is there for us to use and it's easier to take that back rather than build a new one.

Just thoughts - it's not that I don't understand where you're coming from. I probably don't want to admit that I've wasted so much time over the last 38 years being loyal to a party that suckered me into thinking it put people first.

[Enrique]

11. so we've got a president that cuts deals behind our backs

and that we can't take at his word. I frankly don't find those things all that unusual in a politician.

But now that we know that's the way it is, how do progressives work with such a president? If progressives want something passed and Obama doesn't want it, I don't see the progressives having a lot of power to force it.

[lwcon]

12. Sad but true

"I don't see the progressives having a lot of power to force it."

Especially when there are so many enforcers squelching honest criticism.

[defendandprotect]

13. Right ... promised there would not be any government run health care plan . ..

Disgusting!!

[lwcon]

16. I just think he came of age during Reaganomics and fundamentally believes it

He frequently bashes liberals, "government bureaucrats" and such.

[liberation]

43. Then he is either very intellectually dishonest , or too chickenshit to register Republican

I am most definitively not in humor to endure a round of neo-liberalism in order to "wash down" the 8 years of neo-conservatism we just suffered. In fact, at this point I don't much care for any thing with "neo" in its name.

[defendandprotect]

59. If Obama and Rahm are of one mind . . . we're in a lot of trouble . . .

corporatism is fascism --

and we're feeling the effects of this upon "America" and her citizens more

and more strongly every day!!

I think Obama, sadly, made deals - but I don't think they let anyone into the

White House whom they can't control -- I do notice that every time we reach

some kind of a point of decision where liberal/progressives are winning in their

push that something pops up, like the Hawii birther issue!!

They would have to have a way to pull the rug out from anyone who is not doing

their bidding.

[gleaner]

74. Do you think that excuses everything that he does?

He said Reagan was his favorite President. I took him at his word. But still does that make it OK for him to lie, cut back room deals against the public interest, threaten other Democrats who won't vote for his rooty tooty bill in a way that amounts to extortion? And does it make it OK for him to refer to the employees who are not political employees who probably do a lot of the work necessary to keep the government running as "government bureaucrats' in a derogatory fashion? I don't see Obama doing too much that is constructive himself. In fact I see him do a lot that is destructive and makes all Democrats look like fools. Maybe we are. We elected him in the first place, but is all of this all right because he came of age during "Reagaonomics" and believes it? That gives him a free pass to say and do whatever he wants, but everyone else is expected to follow rules of common decency in their behavior toward others. I'm sorry but that is no excuse for a complete refusal to take responsibility for your actions. Obama is responsible for his actions. Not the people he admires or the time he grew up in. It would serve everyone better to give him accountability instead of making excuses for what is essentially inexcusable.

[ShortnFiery]

14. And yet there are still large numbers of "true believers" against all verifiable data, they

STILL BELIEVE that President Obama did not make "back room deals" with the Insurance Cartel and Big Pharma? How unbelievable is that?!?

"There's one born every minute." P.T. Barnum

[Forkboy]

15. "There's one born every minute."

The pace is quickening. The Party is becoming a joke.

[lwcon]

36. And today we have threads

Praising Kucinich for sacrificing his principles.

Go, team!

[liberation]

46. Sometimes reading DU feels like a bad Orwellian dream...

Weakness is strength
Mediocrity is excellence
Lockstep is plurality
Reactionaries are progressive...

Having supposed Dems behave like republicans, in order to defend policies which would have been deemed unacceptable during Bush's administrations, was most definitively NOT the "change" I was expecting to see half way through Mr. Obama's administration.

[defendandprotect]

60. Well, a lot of that is what I consider

DLC-corporate posting?

But, I do think that a lot of liberals/progressive have left DU --

and I think many more will!

[lwcon]

17. Alas...

truthiness is not the exclusive province of the other party.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lwcon]

33. IMHO, the "DLC" thing is a distraction

Practically the whole party has gone neo-con or neo-liberal.

[Lorien]

63. The politicians yes, but I think that most party members are still traditional Dems.

If you really question people on the issues they do lean Liberal/ Progressive. Our reps, on the other hand....well, at least we still have DK, Grayson and Weiner!

[lwcon]

68. DK, Grayson, and Weiner all played footsie with the...

bait-and-switch "public option," at least some of the time.

The people are definitely to the left of the elected Dems, but mainstream narratives convince them that it isn't so.

[Jim Sagle]

18. Holy cow! I recced this and the count went up by 3.

[lwcon]

20. They can use a voter like you in Chicago! n/t

[kath]

19. I am soooooo fuckin' disgusted with this president and the so-called Dems.

Jeebus H. Christ.

[lwcon]

21. It's amazing what can be accomplished under the banner of

"lesser of two evils."

[Lorien]

26. How much "lesser" are they at this point? nt

[lwcon]

29. Indeed

http://www.correntewire.com/american_extremists_every_way_you_look_it_you_lose

[Lorien]

24. And now he's promising not to back Progressives who vote against his wealthcare bill

I never could have been cynical enough to believe that he would turn out to be this massive a disappointment.

[Lord Helmet]

28. More accurately he said no help to ANYONE that votes no.

[lwcon]

31. His help did wonders for Martha Coakley!

Being labeled his 60th vote for the historically historic health-insurance bailout bill was a real winner here in MA.

[Javaman]

38. On another thread...

I stated that Martha Coakley lost because Obama and the dems abandoned Dr. Deans 50 state strategy and it got deleted. LOL

Truth hurts.

[Lord Helmet]

44. That's not why she lost. She ran a godawful campaign.

Also some voters purposely sat on their hands thinking they'd send a message.

How'd that strategy work out in Virginia? The new GOP governor didn't waste a moment eliminating GLBT civil rights. Doh.

[lwcon]

65. How is the strategy of shitting on the base working out for the Dems?

How well will it work come November?

How is it working out for those of us who want and need real reform, a real break from Reaganomics and the Contract on America?

[Lord Helmet]

69. That's the attitude of a self-perpetuating defeatist.

Nobody is shitting on the base -- the Democrats are herding cats and it's obviously a colossal pain in the ass.

We probably agree that the idea of the big tent is grossly overrated. I'm not happy with the rightwing of the party and I support the drives currently underway to primary their asses. I'm a big fan of primary challenges.

In the meantime, I see people here pledging to sit on their hands and I just shake my head. What happened in Virginia should give citizens pause. I hope you think long and hard before throwing in the towel and worse encouraging others to do the same.

[lwcon]

71. Try "realist"

Obama has shit on the base on this at every turn. See the OP. See him belittling "liberal bleeding hearts" and "little single-payer advocates." See him dissing "government bureaucrats" to further his neo-lib/neo-con agenda.

[Lord Helmet]

72. Here's what I see.

I see a drive to ferret out everything, anything that feeds the narrative you described above. I see people passing on "in4mashun" like a game of telephone (you know, the one with the juice cans and string) feeding the negativity in a self-perpetuating action.

Progress is frustrating particularly measured in inches when what we require at a gut level is a hard left turn. You'll get no argument from me on that count.

I would ask that you consider the barrage of horseshit coming from the GOP and the MSM and understand it's a war. You just need to decide on which side you come down. Dennis Kucinich had that reckoning today and I admire him for having the courage to ante up. I do hope you don't give up.

Peace.

[lwcon]

73. It would be a war...

... if the Democrats weren't firing in the same direction that the GOP and MSM are.

Well, it is a war. A war against liberals, even when the public both needs and is ready for liberal reform.

I'm on the side of the American people, on the side of liberalism, on the side of effective and responsible policy. On the side of less empire and less corporatism. Alas, the people I voted for are not on my side.

[Lord Helmet]

27. That's not exactly true. Ezra Klein talked about this last week.

He said that Obama conferred with Pelosi and Reid, counted the votes, and realized even in the reconciliation process the votes just weren't there -- so it wasn't something he bargained away.

MoveOn incorrectly labeled some yes votes in their internet ad. Jay Rockefeller for instance was labeled as a yes vote, but he made it very clear that although he supported the PO he would not vote to pass the PO through reconciliation.

I realize people want to believe that Obama sacrificed the PO because it fits a certain narrative around here, but Ezra Klein says it isn't so. I believe him.

[lwcon]

30. Do you have additional beliefs that wash away...

Obama's secret deal with Big Pharma?

The lies about an open and transparent process that considers all options?

The shifting of momentum from real solutions to the meaningless "public option" marketing slogan, so infinitely flexible that some people are even claiming it's in the bill, even as the bill's authors admit they killed it (whatever it was)?

Obama's calibrating the goal not to solving the problem -- that America pays 2 to 3 times what other countries do for less coverage and poorer outcomes -- but to slowing the rate of increase of our already criminal costs and forcing more people to buy insurance from the culprits?

[lwcon]

34. And, of course, this line of reasoning magically evaporated, as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

[Lord Helmet]

45. The NYT was an embarrassingly badly sourced article.

Good enough for you obviously, but I have always found Ezra Klein to be responsible in his reporting and I believe what he said about this.

[liberation]

50. In other words, you only accept hearsay as long as it fits your narrative...

... I found it ironic that you user "hearsay" as validation to your earlier post, and yet you chastise other poster for doing the same?

I don't know what it is at this point: unmitigated entitlement to have it all both ways, deafening logical dissonance, or runaway doublethink. But I find troubling how quickly some people can justify hubris.

[Lord Helmet]

62. I'm not the one going off on the subject of crappy reporting. nt

[liberation]

66. Funny, I could swear the whole premise of your post was how the NYT was a bad journalistic source

It is scary to see so many posters operating under what can only be classified as runaway projection....

[Lord Helmet]

70. I refer you to

my post in which I relayed a conversation with journalist Ezra Klein on this subject.

I have always found Ezra Klein reliable and I posted the conversation as a point of interest since it contradicts the piece captioned above. You are entitled to believe whatever you want but I can't help but notice that you are defensive about it. Neither vignette is provably true or false, so your strident posturing over it seems rather odd.

This is a political board where people post *gasp* their opinions. Reading something you don't like or agree with really shouldn't be a declaration of war.

[LWolf]

32. K & R nt

[lwcon]

35. thx! n/t

[pundaint]

39. Democrats win Democracy loses. Fuck all Parties not for the People.

[Atticus]

41. If you read the actual article---novel idea for some, I understand---the language you highlight

is one man's quote of what another man said another man said. And---the same man says another man confirmed it!

I'm not saying ignore it, but let's get something that at least approximates specific and reliable information before we have a shit hemorrhage, OK?



I didn't think so.

[rhett o rick]

48. So where does the buck stop when we dont get single payer and we dont get a PO? nm

[Atticus]

51. And, your post has WHAT to do with mine? nt

[rhett o rick]

52. You apparently have a problem with the OP. Just wondering how you stood on the issue, nm

[Atticus]

55. My problem with the OP is simply what I stated: it is a selective quote of something said by

someone who quoted someone who quoted someone else.

That's not even close to being reliable information.

Worth a direct question to the White House at next presser? Absolutely.

And, just so we're clear, I AM in favor of a true "government run healthcare plan". It's called single payer and it is where this discussion SHOULD have started.

[rhett o rick]

56. I understand. Sorry, I got one hell of a chip on my shoulder. nm

[Atticus]

57. Thanks. No problem. These are aggravating times. nt

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merkins]

53. It's Over Johnny

Now that the scam is laid bare I guess what we need is The Progressive Underground.

Sexy Sadie you broke the rules
You layed it down for all to see
You layed it down for all to see
Sexy Sadie oooh you broke the rules

[rhett o rick]

58. I like your idea of "Progressive Underground". Anyone can call themselves

a Democrat and cause havoc here.

[troubledamerican]

61. Progressive Underground -- count me in

I'm done with Democrats. When you can't count on Dennis, it's time to leave.

[SandWalker1984]

54. If this bill is so great, why don't House Dems want to openly vote for it?

If the Senate bill is such a great bill for us Americans, if it's actually going to reform health care, then....

WHY DO DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR IT? WHY DO THEY WANT TO SNEAK THE VOTE THRU THE BACK DOOR SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO "OWN" IT?



It is easier to fight for principles than to live up to them.

[lwcon]

64. Isn't that just perfect?

The historically historic bill in the time of Change, and they have to hold their noses and quasi-un-vote for it with plausible deniability.

The perfect ending for a cruel and corrupt clusterfuck!

[ooglymoogly]

67. I think duplicity is the word you were searching for. kr nt