As long as we keep denying that poverty is a root problem we'll continue to suck.

[Political Heretic]

Poverty is a root problem in education, the nations worst schools are also the nations poorest schools. And everyone ignores simplistic truths such as the fact that if a child is home-insecure and food-insecure, that child's ability to learn is adversely affected. Can that child still excel? Yes, but a mountain of unnecessary obstacles are in the path of children in poverty that should not be there, cause far too many children to fail. Poverty may not be the only root problem, but it is one root problem. And once again, politicians claiming to address education completely ignore this fact.

Poverty is a root problem in crime and incarceration, the nations highest crime areas are also the nations poorest areas. Lack of opportunity, need, hopelessness and instability breed crime. Feeling as though you're trapped on the bottom with no way out is a recipe for turning to drugs, to gangs, to a sea of bad choices that appear to be the only option. Our jail-happy society (driven now by corporations profiting on private prisons) only exacerbates a poverty cycle, but classifying minor offenders as convicted felons, dehumanizing them in prison, then turning them back out the street after eliminating many of life's options - the world looks a lot different with "ex-con" stamped on your forehead. Poverty may not be the only problem in crime and incarceration, but it is one of the root problems.

Poverty is a root economic problem. This is the hardest sell, since we've been conditioned so long to believe so much nonsensical garbage about "supply side" economics. When we refuse to socially invest in our society, to maintain a robust safety net and make poverty a focal point of our politics, the number of poor grows - and as it does our consumer base and power weakens, and our economy weakens. Less people have money to spend so less things get bought. Companies make less money so they have less jobs, putting more people into positions of poverty to repeat the cycle. A government that works to decrease (not increase as the business community would like) worker insecurity, works to increase job opportunities even if that means being an employer of last resort, works to provide substantive assistance to those in need, rather that cut off sub-standard assistance when people still need it most, keeping them trapped in a cycle of poverty - these things are critical for a strong economy. Poverty may not be the only root problem with our economy, but it is one of the root problems.

I could easily go on.

Despite this reality, our politicians across the board categorically refuse to seriously discuss poverty directly, and independently of other policy issues. The poor only get mentioned when they can serve as a political zinger. So for example, Democrats love to talk about poor people when trying to pass insurance reform that clearly prioritizes the whims of the financial elite first, ahead of the needs of working families. But they certainly do not like to talk about the poor directly, or for the sake of making poverty a primary policy concern.

As long as we continue to allow this, we will continue to suck.

This has been my opinion,
PH

[virginia mountainman]

1. very good post...NT

[Chemisse]

2. You are absolutely right nt

[etherealtruth]

3. Poverty is the main problem

How can we expect children to learn , parents to participate ... when they are trying to meet the most basic human needs?

[ipaint]

4. Wealth hoarders are the problem.

They create poverty. Poverty is essential to and a result of amassing vast unearned wealth at the very top. All stolen from the labor of the working classes and the poor. We have a massive rich problem in this country.

Politicians in a position to push for the redistribution of wealth will never address poverty. Simply because they are rich and they are the problem.

[bobbolink]

9. Well, that makes it easy.

You probably won't like this, because it doesn't let "progressives" off the hook..

The Main Problem Is People Who Don't/Won't take responsiblity for the national poverty, and Take Action.

Blaming one small group of people is easy, but isn't the ROOT, and nothing will ever change as long as this view is predominant.

[ipaint]

16. I don't like or dislike it.

I disagree.

I'm not letting anyone off the hook. The theft was allowed to take place as a result of the middle class on up that could give a shit. That doesn't mean the wealthy aren't hoarding all the stolen wealth at the top.

You can try and shame people into taking action until you are blue in the face, it won't be until enough of them are at the bottom with the rest of us that anything will happen.

I've spent my entire adult life barely above the poverty level, right now well below. We have to address the problem of excessive wealth in this country in order to have the means to address the needs of those in poverty.
If you have figured out a way to get the middle and upper classes off their asses and giving enough of a shit to take action and join us in demanding the necessary changes from our millionaire representatives in government, I'm all ears.

[bobbolink]

32. I love starting the day off with a good dismissal.

No wonder "progressives" are ignored..... they certainly aren't easy to deal with.

[wuushew]

39. Honey will catch more flies than vinegar

but then again I don't know what your personal goals are.

[bobbolink]

40. My goals are simple... to put an end to poverty in this country WITHOUT being

attacked.

But, then, CHANGE is always threatening to people, and they would rather attack the messenger than to work for structural change.

[LWolf]

5. Yes. nt

[the other one]

6. K n R

[Political Heretic]

7. Morning up

[happy_liberal]

8. I agree completely

I read this infuriating story this morning about how the gov't wants to expand broadband to all because it is a human right.

What about homes...food...health care??? No, every US citizen deserves broadband.

[bobbolink]

10. All very true, but the REAL question is, WHAT are we going to do about it?

Periodically wring our hands?

Blame the rich?

Ignore us poor and homeless folk year after suffering year?

WHEN will poverty become a priority?

Only when ALL of you are suffering the way some of us are now?

[bobbolink]

11. Chew on this.... if you dare....

"Charity is the filthiest invention of the human mind: first you steal what belongs to everyone; then you use the policeman and the atom bomb to protect it. You give charity to prevent the have-nots from rebelling against you. It also makes you feel less guilty. All do-gooders feel 'high' when they do good." -----U.G. Krishnamurti


Justice, Not Charity!

[JNelson6563]

13. Good to see you stopping in Bobbie

No thread on poverty would be complete without you stopping by to completely belittle and demean any effort average people make to help those less fortunate than themselves.

Julie

[Political Heretic]

15. I think you can take it another way:

average people can and do make effort to help those less fortunate than themselves - by demanding structural justice. If someone wants to give to charity that's great. I give to "charity." But I don't confuse that with an actual solution to our structural injustice.

I'm not assuming we have any disagreement here. And I'm not referencing any history you and this other poster may or may not have. I'm simply saying that, on its face, Charity can become the enemy of real social and economic justice when people begin to believe that we have no structural obligation to develop and maintain an economic system that closes the huge gap in wealth and privilege between an elite 10% and the other 90%.

Charity won't get us there. Demanding economic justice of the kind Dr. King was speaking of right before he was silenced will get us there.

So conservatives I speak with often justify their anti-social politics by saying "I give to charity, I shouldn't be "forced" to do anything for someone else by he government." That attitude is the one that is destructive.

And periodically, you find Democrats sort of drifting a bit into that mode of thinking. I believe that to be quite harmful.

Hope that makes sense. I know we have many disagreements in other areas, but I feel like we could find some common ground here maybe.

[JNelson6563]

17. I guess if you look at the head of this pin, yeah, you're right.

None the less, many people out here have little time or other resource3s and yet they do what they can when they see a soul in need. I barely get by myself but do what I can to help others in my really small ways (cause that's all I got). Still, n'ary a poverty thread goes by without scorn and disdain being heaped on those who settle for doing what little they can. Only complete fixing of the system will do for some.

To those I say "Try not to alienate every single soul that gives a shit, will ya?"

Julie--who is so tired of watching some shoot us in the foot and cloak it in (self) righteous indignation

[Political Heretic]

19. We can, and should, do both.

The old saying goes, "do what you can, where you are, with what you have." Very wise. So people who only have the capacity to do little should not be berated.

But I think maybe doing little includes two components. One is whatever and individual can do directly to invest in others who need it. The other is whatever that individual can do to resist structural injustice. If that's just speaking out, great. As a former organizer, I believe in the power and need of public education and consciousness raising. If its getting actively involved in policy advocacy, great.

I recognize your legitimate right to be teed off at people who pass judgement about how you manage your life without knowing anything about you, and without it being any of their business. I can't tell you anything you do is right or wrong. I can only hope to persuade you that a commitment to both direct compassionate action and structural change is critically important.

[JNelson6563]

31. Indeed, it is not I who needs persuading.

:toast:

[bobbolink]

34. Also, two things to remember... that quote wasn't directed at anyone.

Taking it personally says a lot.

Two, we have been doing it that same way now for 30 years, and the solution not only isn't at hand, but its getting much worse. So, should we continue for another 30 years doing it the same way?

OR, should we begin to think like true "progressives", and take a page from Martin Luther King (who got shot for daring to challenge people to think and act differently!), and Krishnamurti, who was speaking totally on behalf of those on the bottom, or just keep on and let more and more people suffer and die?

I'm going to add a third thing to consider....

All the time on DU, we say very harsh things about RWers. If this quote, not directed to anyone individually, is sooooo destructive, then how destructive must it be to heap all kinds of invective on people who are RWers, even those tea partiers who *maybe* could be persuaded to direct their righteous anger in the right direction?

I guess sometime we need to shine that same spotlight on some of our own actions, too. If we are hurt by an impersonal quote that hits close to home, then maybe others feel the same way about *our* barbs.

[caseycoon]

20. Very well said!

I think this is much closer to what the author of that quote was talking about.
Thank you.

[bobbolink]

33. You're very welcome, Julie. Glad to know it hit a nerve.

Of course, you might want to talk with Krishnamurti about that.

Oh, that's right... its only ME who says these things. I just put his name to it.

Have a nice day.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Heretic]

14. Powerful. Charity is the enemy of Justice.

Thank you for posting.

[JNelson6563]

12. Well said.

Bravo! Agree 100%.

[Odin2005]

18. A-FUCKING-MEN!!!

:yourock:

[Starry Messenger]

21. Yes, it's a sucking chest wound.

I guess the politicians have to ignore that fact or they might be forced to actually do something about it. I don't know what the excuse is for people here though. There's a group of folks who seem to think that if they could just find all those miracle-working teachers who could make learning occur despite the empty bellies and the less-than-stellar home lives of their pupils, then they could just fix it by firing all of the "bad" teachers. That's why I hate all of those feel-good teacher movies that come out every few years. I think people actually believe them.

[nannah]

22. you are so right; what is sadly ironic about this is that many of the causes

of poverty are essentially put into place at a persons point of birth and we are not willing to recognize and mitigate this difference. Consider that at a person's point of birth, they have physical and cognitive attributes. They are born into environments that affect how they are nurtured and nourished. Their economic status is determined. Opportunity is sharply limited for people who are born with an unfortunate combination of birth point elements. Opportunity is sharply increased for people with a fortunate combination of birth point elements. There is increasing research showing that genetics, nutrition and nurturing significantly effect how we merge into the people we become.

Poverty is rarely volitional. By overstating the idea that anyone can succeed if they try and ignoring the role of point of birth issues in limiting a person's opportunities, we distort reality and create a cruel disdain for people who weren't born into the high opportunity group.

I say this after spending 20 + years working as a social worker with people in poverty. Our words of equal opportunity obscure how unequal people's access to success really is.

[happy_liberal]

24. +1000

I wish I could recommend your response.

[nannah]

28. thanks n/t

[bobbolink]

37. "Our words of equal opportunity obscure how unequal people's access to success really is. "

Eloquent!

That is quotable...mind if I do so?

"By overstating the idea that anyone can succeed if they try and ignoring the role of point of birth issues in limiting a person's opportunities, we distort reality and create a cruel disdain for people who weren't born into the high opportunity group. "

"Cruel disdain"... wow.... you have it it on the head! Flowers to ya! :applause:

[nannah]

41. thanks :) n/t

[happy_liberal]

42. I cross posted your response on another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7950360#7950849
(hope it's okay :hi:)

[nannah]

44. thank you :)

[leftstreet]

23. K&R

[KillCapitalism]

25. REC

We have to reverse this somehow. If not, it will just be a matter of time before Americans have it just as bad as Haitians.

[The Genealogist]

26. K & R

[RainDog]

27. the poor don't influence elections so they are the scapegoats

both parties could give a shit about poor people.

they blame everyone and everything but the real problem, which is that America is content to let people die because rich people hate poor people.

all comes down to that.

[Solly Mack]

29. K&R

[LuckyLib]

30. You are so right. Condemning schools and teachers is so much easier than

examining the struggles of families, communities, and children. Visiting a middle school recently, I commented to a colleague about how absolutely awful the lunch menu looked. (Teachers refuse to eat it, it's so bad.) Her response -- "for many of these kids it is the ONLY meal of the day. The rest is grazing." It's poverty.

[JohnnyBoots]

35. Everything boils down to socio-economics. It always does...nt

[bobbolink]

36. Nother quote for you...

"Coming Together in Poverty

"There are many forms of poverty: economic poverty, physical poverty, emotional poverty, mental poverty, and spiritual poverty. As long as we relate primarily to each other's wealth, health, stability, intelligence, and soul strength, we cannot develop true community. Community is not a talent show in which we dazzle the world with our combined gifts. Community is the place where our poverty is acknowledged and accepted, not as something we have to learn to cope with as best as we can but as a true source of new life.

"Living community in whatever form - family, parish, twelve-step program, or intentional community - challenges us to come together at the place of our poverty, believing that there we can reveal our richness."

Henri Nouwen

bold mine Because we are ALL poor in some way.... we just don't like to think about it.

[Hannah Bell]

38. k

[OneGrassRoot]

45. K&R for one of the best OPs and threads in a long time....

Well, I would have recommended had I been within the time period to do so. :)

There's a lot to chew on here...different perspectives to perhaps open up to. Bookmarking.

:hi: