Here's why privatization of Social Security will NEVER work.

[Union Yes]

Almost every close family member, loved one, friend of mine has now cashed out their 'retirement' savings, 401k, IRA, etc.

I talk to my family and friends. I ask them personal questions out of concern for there well being. Almost everyone I know is laid-off. They've been laid off for months or in many cases, more than a year. They've exhausted unemployment benefits and personal savings.

They've been forced to turn to their last resort. Their retirement savings. Any DU'er who reads this, please think for a moment..
Do you know anyone that fits the above description? That's had to resort to cashing out their retirement to live?

My brother was a tough hold out. The man ate ramen noodles in an attempt to save his retirement account. He lived without. He went without in a vain attempt to save his retirement. Sadly, he just cashed out his 401k. He'd be homeless if not.

He practiced personal responsibility and got bit in the ass for it. So has almost every other person that is close to me.

Republicans want us to believe their convenient little lie. That if we work really hard, personal responsibility will save us. This current state of economic collapse has proven what a lie the GOP represents.

Nationwide, personal retirement savings has taken a major hit in the past few years.

20, 30, 40 year olds are cashing out their 401k, IRA, other retirement savings out of necessity.

Food is a necessity. A roof over the head is a necessity.

Under America's shameful new low paid/Serf/wage-slave service based economy, the ability to save for retirement is OBSOLETE for too many.

Vampire Capitalism has made saving for the future a thing of the past for most Americans. Supply-side economics has created a roller coaster economy of short-lived highs followed by crushing lows and economic collapse, like today.

When our economy collapses retirement savings go POOF! Survival forces people to cash out their retirement savings.

Privatization of Social Security or any of our social safety net is a disaster waiting to happen. Privatization would spell financial doom for our senior citizens.

Imagine a 90 year old homeless women. Senior citizens are the most vulnerable among us.

The dark hearts that make up the Republican Party are A-OK with 90 year old homeless starving ladies. Empathy IS NOT a GOP party platform. The few DEMS that also support gutting Social Security are an EMBARRASSMENT to the Dem Party.

Any who advocate for privatization of Social Security are a dangerous group who should be marginalized and shunned by all of our good hearted society.

The pro-privatization folks are the new Nazis.
Ron Paul-Guilty
Eric Cantor-Guilty
Michele Bachmann-Guilty
Boehner-Guilty
McConnell-Guilty
The GOP-Guilty
Sarah Palin-Guilty

How evil does one have to be to take retirement security away from our most vulnerable-our seniors.

How evil must one be to advocate for making a 90 year old go homeless and hungry?
I think Ron Paul, Bachmann, Palin owe our seniors an explanation.

Just out of curiosity, how many DU'ers know someone that has been forced to cash out their retirement savings? Feel free to answer below.

Had we allowed the GOP to privatize SS and sink a portion of it into the stock market, imagine the perhaps multi-trillion dollar bailout of SS that we would be faced with today.

Peace
UY

[mmonk]

1. What people can't get through their heads is that privatization

is what we had before social security. Privatization means "getting rid of", not saving, social security.

[elocs]

2. Personally, I haven't. I know it has happened, but not to anyone I know. n/t

[rfranklin]

3. They are still at work on that project....

because Wall Street needs a new source of cash to feed on. Besides those vultures, the people in government who have spent all the money that we paid into Social Security are just as bad. Under Reagan they rang the alarm and raised our SS payments and said that would take care of it forever. Then they promptly spent it on ramping up the military. ("Deficits don't matter," said Cheney the Bloodthirsty.)

[closeupready]

6. For as long as SS exists, Wall Street will be cooking up ways to get at it.

They will never stop trying to get their hands on it, so they can charge transaction fees, conversion fees, 'asset-holding' fees, management fees, etc. - i.e., fee the accounts to death.

[dkf]

4. The ability to deplete 401ks has nothing to do with the downside of privitization.

I agree with the sentiment but the reason privitization won't work is because a pension is guaranteed regardless of market performance as it is a defined benefit. Social security will probably be the only defined benefit people will have in their old age as companies phase out defined benefit plans because they don't want the obligation.

The best situation is to have both a defined benefit and defined contribution plan. You can use the defined benefit to ensure subsistence while enabling a better situation should your investments pan out.

[fasttense]

5. If you file for bankruptcy, in some cases and in some states, they

will take your 401K to pay your debts off.

If Wall Street doesn't take your money in a ponzi scheme or bookie agreement, moving the trillions of dollars in your Social Security Trust fund to a private 401K accounts, will make it a target for your creditors.

[closeupready]

7. I don't think that's accurate.

401(k)'s are governed by federal law, which prohibits (from what I understand) liens against 401(k)'s - that is, a 401(k) balance is not considered an asset during bankruptcy proceedings.

I am not a lawyer, and could be wrong on this, but if so, I would appreciate if someone could pipe in here.

[closeupready]

17. I did a little googling, and it seems that part of Bankruptcy Deform in 2005

was to make 401(k) balances exempt from seizure during Chapter 7 bankruptcy, at least according to this response on Yahoo Answers:

>>A qualified 401(k) account is not part of the bankruptcy estate (meaning, it has no bearing on the bankruptcy and will not be taken to pay creditors). Congress specifically wrote this provision into the 2005 bankruptcy reform law for a reason. It believes that people need retirement savings. Most financial experts recommend NOT taking money out of your 401(k) to pay off debts when you are bankrupt, for MOST people under MOST circumstances. For one thing, if you have substantial money in your 401(k) you are probably closer rather than further from retirement. It is NOT a recommended life financial plan to impoverish yourself in retirement by robbing your retirement account to pay off credit cards. Also, you will be converting an exempt asset to a non-exempt and taxable asset. So if you do this right before filing bankruptcy the Trustee could reverse the transaction (unless you paid off ALL creditors and do not file bankruptcy at all). For another thing, if you are less than 59.5 years old, this will have substantial penalties AND tax consequences, which could put you right back in seriously bad financial straits when taxes come due.<<

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091121202241AAVi34k

[unblock]

8. private social security is what we had before we decided we needed public social security

[jtrockville]

9. Social security is a safety net for when the stock market crashes.

How does putting social security into the stock market provide a safety net for when the stock market crashes?

[customerserviceguy]

10. The only real security that any of us will have

is what we save up for ourselves. I've paid off my debts, and will try to stick perhaps 50% of my pay into my 401K. I've only got a few thousand in a former job's 401K, and only about a dozen years to pile away as much as I can, and IF Social Security is still around by that time, it'll be a surprise to me.

At some point, they're going to means test it, and it will be declared "double-dipping" to have both a SS check and a tax-advantaged 401K or IRA account. I sure won't be one of the fools lining up to give away his nest egg in exchange for a Social Security check.

[HughBeaumont]

11. The GOP wanted to do that in 2005.

Imagine what an unmitigated disaster THAT would have been.

SS is insurance, NOT investment. There's a difference.

[Union Yes]

13. They were pushing investment of SS in the stock market in the 90's too.

Like you said, would have been a disaster.
And it would have required massive bailouts.

The GOP is still preaching that same dangerous idea to this day. :grr:

I agree with your reply 100%.

[HughBeaumont]

14. Here's the thing about health care and SS:

Let's get down in the mud and THINK like the GOP does: How does this help Numero UNO? You know, let's think "selfishly"; in terms of "me" and not "we".

I would think they all wouldn't be so stupid as to give up something they all pay into on the turns & whims of their vaunted "FREE MARKETZ". Deep down, knowing how Wall Street pissed and gambled away nearly trillions in investor cash and not only kept the profits, but got bailed out by us (multiple times throughout the 20th and 21st centuries). . . who would trust them with an IOU pool as giant as Social Security?

Which is exactly why I DON'T understand what their deal is with Universal Health Care. Let's gloss over the fact that conservatives have this mistaken belief that there's no such thing as "health care horror stories", "we have the best health care in the world" and "everyone here is already covered" :eyes: :eyes: Thinking selfishly, wouldn't you WANT something you paid into your whole life BE there for you when you absolutely need it, no matter what?? Wouldn't trusting your health care to the "free marketz" or parasite insurance conglomerates, if your intent is to have it when you're older, be sort of the exact opposite of what you would want to do?

[Mari333]

12. I have a feeling that 70 million and more baby boomers are not

going to stand for privatization of SS....especially with the hatred for the banks and all things wall street.


they would be shooting themselves in the foot, the politicians, with this. unless they live on Mars, they should know that.

[glitch]

16. Losing votes doesn't matter if your career plan is a slushy corporate gig. nt

[Confusious]

15. It'll work

for wall street. As for the rest of us, well, we're just walking dead peasants.

Sorry, my cynicism is on the downswing right now.

[Nikki Stone1]

18. It doesn't matter if it will work; what matters is that it makes money for Wall Street

And it will.