Blaming the Food Industry

[erpowers]

I am not some type of shill for the food industry, but should this country be blaming the food industry for the child obesity problem that is occuring in America. I saw that First Lady Michelle Obama stated yesterday that the food industry was not moving fast enough to provide healthy food options.

Is it really the fault of the food industry that children are becoming obese? Should more blame be put on individuals?

[GoneOffShore]

1. Watch "Food Inc" and read Michael Pollan's books

Then come back and say that the individual is to blame.

Food and agricultural policy have contributed greatly to the health problems American society faces today. And it's not just HFCS. It's manufactured "food products".

And thank you Monsanto for Roundup and patented soybeans and putting organic farmers in jeopardy. :sarcasm:

Added on edit -

And yes, it would be possible to feed the population we have now with sustainably raised food. We might have to pay a bit more and eat a bit less meat, but we could do it.

[Ohio Metal]

4. Also watch "The Future of Food" free on Hulu

It'll make you wonder why companies insist on holding patents on a living organism that will breed, hybridize, and mutate all with a simple change of the wind. All while keeping poor farmers dependant on their (Monsanto, etc.) seed and herbicide. I call monopoly and not the fun kind with the funny colored money.

[Warpy]

2. Perhaps it's not a moral failure, either

Maybe it's a combination of things that include poor diet choices, a more sedentary culture, and factors we're only beginning to understand such as the role of things like adenoviruses in changing metabolism.

Nobody wants to be fat. It's uncomfortable, it gets caught in the zipper, and it's the last socially acceptable bigotry. If people were given a choice, they'd be thin.

Unfortunately, 90+% of people who starve down to their ideal weight--even through surgery--gain it back plus more within 5 years.

Something besides the food industry and lax morals is at work, folks.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. parents feed their kids crap and let them rot in front of videogames...

Then try to blame everything and anything for their lil' heifer's weight problem.
"But I AM a good parent..." :eyes: spare me.

That food we all used to eat in the 60's and 70's and 80's... it didn't disappear. Try home cooking occasionally.
Simple home-cooked meals are really simple and most take 15-30 mins TOPS to prepare.

Those physical games kids used to play and outdoor chores... they're still legal.
Put down the joystick, open the window, and grab some tennis shoes.

[handmade34]

14. not so simple

it isn't the 1960's anymore and we are a very diverse country with considerable variation in people's living conditions and opportunities. What you personally experience may not be what a large percentage of the rest of the population experiences. I used to run in the woods and climb trees and swim in the brook.... it is a very small percentage of children that can do that anymore. Many larger cities (and small villages) have no grocery store and if they do, often there is no fresh produce. It is a big country out there and we must consider how the other half (figeratively) lives.

[awoke_in_2003]

34. And tie that together...

with the fact that quality "good for you" food is more expensive, and requires work on the preparer's end. In this hectic, and cash strapped, life- who has time or money to fix a bunch of high quality meals?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

43. People who care.

And cooking healthy does not have to be more expensive - it's usually cheaper. ESPECIALLY for 3 or more people.
Buying pre-prepared "healthy food" IS often more expensive than unhealthy food. And it should be more expensive, it's better food.
But you don't have to eat "health food" to eat healthy. You just have to decide what ingredients are healthy to use in recipes.
Actually MAKING your own food is often cheaper and you can control the ingredients.
Unless you are living off fast-food value menus and $5 large pizzas (:loveya:), home cooking is cheap.
I've yet to figure out how to make homemade pizza (as good as commercial) cheaply. I think the key is the pizza ovens. :(

I cooked a pesto pasta with a salad last night... cost about $10 for enough dinner to feed three. 15 minutes.
Would've taken about ~45mins if I made the pasta myself but I was feeling lazy.

Broiled Chicken served over Cilantro lime rice takes about 15mins to cook, tastes excellent, and costs maybe $8 to feed 4 people.
(boneless chicken ($4/lb), 1 lime ($1), cilantro ($1.50), 1lb rice ($0.90), 2oz butter ($0.50), and season to taste.

Crock pot meals are ALOT of food for cheap too. Potatoes, carrots, onions, celery and 2 lbs of beef roast or chicken. $11 maybe?
Takes about 8-10 hours to "cook" but let it stew while you're at work. Takes probably 10 minutes to throw together the night before.

There is literally a TON of recipes that are MUCH cheaper to make yourself and take less than 30mins to make.
Cheaper than eating out and much healthier than typical heat'n'serve pre-packaged food.
Plus, cleaning pots and pans and dishes gives the kids something to do in the way of chores. Slave-labor... gotta luv it. :)

[DeschutesRiver]

38. I used to drive by enormous former fields of subdivisions in my state

I saw playgrounds, I saw sidewalks, I saw city parks. And they were always empty for the most part. I too used to run in the woods, climb trees, MOVE. The parks, playgrounds, sidewalks, woods and trees are still exactly where they were and available for use. That hasn't changed at all since I grew up in the 60s.

Here are some changes I do see. We did have tv and I wasn't allowed to sit in front of it endlessly. We didn't have many "fresh" veggies other than iceberg lettuce and potatoes, because those things were too expensive for our budget. We lived in a mildly rural area, and there was no nearby grocery store (lots of homes, but nearest Safeway style store was >15 miles away). My parents weren't active with us kids very much, but we were expected to do a bunch of physical chores daily. And when it was time to "play", we got booted outside to the yard and woods, and whatever friends homes that were in walking distance (I often walked a couple of miles or more to get there).

The change is that my childhood home is now better served by things like a very close grocery store, a lot more homes which means more sidewalks to run on and use, actual parks (quite a few) and still all the recreation places around there that I used.

It is very simple, I think - quite a few people do not wish to exercise, or really move much in any way. They place no importance on it and do not guide their children to embrace "movement" of any kind. They park their cars closer to the stores, they complain if there isn't a store "close" even though they plan to drive a car to get there, everything is about "convenience". People may not have available all the fresh veggies of their dreams or the variety that we are told we must have in fresh produce to suit our whims, but there is enough out there to provide to feed your family if you choose to prioritize it as important. Frankly, if nothing more happened than cutting down by 80% the use of processed, packaged stuff that is mistakenly called food, and kids did nothing more than walk their asses off daily, the weight for many would melt away.

Walking. Playing. Eating as little processed food as possible, and quit stuffing more calories than your damned body needs down your throat. That will work for both kids and adults. No matter how diverse we are as a country (and have always been), these things are achievable for many starting tomorrow, can be done anywhere in the nation and the cost is minimal. What is lacking is any desire to do this. That is the crux of the issue and I don't know how one can motivate to get people to fix that.

[surrealAmerican]

44. Part of what is missing now (compared to the '60s and '70s) is time.

We have parents who don't have time to cook, and children who are so loaded down with school and "activities", they don't have time to play outside. Add to that parents who are too afraid of the outside world to let their children "go play outside", and the kids will spend whatever free time they have just sitting around (with tv, video games, or the internet).

[DeschutesRiver]

45. I wonder if it is about lack of time, or about the choices we make for the time we still have

Both my parents worked for most of my childhood, but my mom figured out what a crockpot was for and deployed it more than we'd liked:) My dad was a fireman, so when he was gone it was for 24 hours at a time. On his days off, he had another job, including weekends. My mom went from part time to full time work because she liked being out of the house. Mostly, we were sent outdoors to "play" or get that energy out of our systems as a default measure by what I call mentally absentee parents.

Today there are just so many more choices of things to do to fill our time, and many of them don't require any serious physical exertion or physical practice to achieve (just a few bucks to buy something mass produced in China for pennies, that takes advantage of cool technology that didn't even exist when I was growing up). We gravitate towards soft spoonfed activites to fill our time because they are easy to do without thinking or effort. When I was a kid, after school activities were very basic and very few. There was no internet, so no facebook, no twitter. We didn't have games like xbox, etc. Only a tv set that had just a few channels - no satellite or cable connections. No cell phones. If you didn't read a book or go tear up doing something outside physical, there simply wasn't much else to do (unless you had $$ and could afford some of the limited after school activities or clubs - we couldn't afford that).

If I were a kid today, with all these new cheap goods & activity choices available, and with the same set of parents, who knows. Maybe I too would be ignoring the trees and fields (and even the library I used to practically live in), and be found sitting on my butt in front of a computer or game box, snorting down some food from a box and challenging my genetic material to see if my overweight condition was genetically based or just the result putting myself in a situation akin to fattening a veal in a cage.

[DeschutesRiver]

39. dup. nt

[DeschutesRiver]

40. another dup. nt

[NYC_SKP]

5. Blame the industry and it's enablers, the US Congress, patent office, etc. n/t

[Gman2]

6. Capitalism is killing us. All the decisions that could be for good, are subverted for profit.

It is showing up in all manor of areas. We need to think about ergonomics, as well as greed.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

7. I agree with you . . .

. . . the Frito-Lay's and the KFC's and Coca-Cola's of the world exist to produce and sell crap. That's their business. So be it. But that doesn't mean I have to consume what they produce, and I don't.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[Big Blue Marble]

22. Do you understand that these food giants use technologies

in the foods that rewire your brain so you crave their crap and can't stop eating it even when you want too?

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

23. Uh, yeah, I understand that very well . . .

. . . which is precisely why I avoid consuming crap like that in the first place. What's your point?

[Codeine]

41. People stop eating that crap all the time.

Mindless hysteria. The only person who controls your eating is you.

[Big Blue Marble]

46. Your compassion is underwhelming.

Would you give the same advice to a person who has alcoholism? Authorities and the public both used to
say to alcoholics: "your drinking is clearly an issue of willpower and character. So just stop drinking.

Your opinion is based on ignorance not science, to be specific, brain science. Overeating is a complex
and individualized response to brain and body chemistry, emotions, culture, and family. If it were as easy as "just say no"
we would not have a growing obesity epidemic and 95% of those who have lost weight would not be putting it
back on.

[dustbunnie]

47. That 95% figure is absolute baloney and to compare chips to alcohol is hilarious.

We have a growing obesity epidemic because the food industry long ago cottoned on to the fact that if you serve big platters of food people will frequent your joint over the one that serves moderate portions. Hence the supersize explosion. We have grocery frozen food sections selling crap that are as big as mansions, catering to people who can't be bothered to cook. People who haven't a clue what's in food and who are delusional about appropriate portions + massive offerings of shit product = obese families. Add into the equation the same people who abhor exercise of any kind and there you go.

And not aimed at you personally, but why do people obsess about it so much? If people don't care what they look like, hate healthy food and enjoy the fattening stuff instead, who's to say what they should or shouldn't be eating? It really won't change a thing anyway.

[awoke_in_2003]

35. Alright...

I am drawing the line there- you lay off KFC right NOW :)

[paulsby]

8. the most blame lies with parents

since kids largely eat what their parents feed them.

all you have to do is go to the grocery store, and follow a shopping cart where there is a parent and obese kids (or an obese adult) anmd SEE what they are buying

cause - effect.

i see it all the frigging time.

my parents were into healthier food and fed me quite nutrititiously. and lots of very nutritious choices are very reasonably priced.

we spend less as a percentage of disposable income for food than most other countries

generally speaking, the obese people and those with obese kids are loading their cart with complete processed, sugary, fatty crap.

n= metric assloads of times

[JackintheGreen]

12. Please, by all means, follow me through through the grocery

Watch what I buy. Then come home with me and watch what cook for dinner. Vegetables, whole grains, fresh fruits, almost no meat, and very few oils. Not once or twice a week. Every night. See what I pack my daughter for lunch. Every day. Then come with me to job where I get 20+ hours/week of heavy, aerobic exercise. Then, for good measure, you can follow my wife to roller derby practice, 3x/week for 2+ hours. After you've done all of that, every single fucking bit of it, then you can tell me that it's as simple as cause and effect. Then you can look me in my fat fucking face, if it doesn't disgust you too very much, and tell me that it's MY fault that my family is overweight.

'N' equals something, but not what you think. :rant:

[paulsby]

25. you can ignore evidence and reality all you want

but it's cause and effect.

eat a lot of processed, sugary crap - get fat

hth

[JackintheGreen]

32. You're funny.

I offer contrary evidence. You dismiss it because it challenges your assumptions.

It's not as cut and dried as you think. But you've made up your mind. I won't waste your time with facts.

[paulsby]

33. you're ignoring the real world

you didn't offer contrary evidence at all

you offered a snarky reply, because i (god forbid) attacked your prejudices.

hth

[JackintheGreen]

36. On the contrary

It just required effort from you to come get it (god forbid!).

My point was this: it is simply not the case that all weight/obesity issues are related to food intake. It is simply not the case that all people who struggle with their weight are lazy, moon-pie eating gmokes. Simply. Not. The case.

You would like it to be so easy. Perhaps then you could look down on every pathetic meat-bag that doesn't match whatever body image you have decided is ideal without wondering if maybe it's you who has the problem. I, unfortunately, missed the memo you issued on the matter.

Is there a correlation between "bad" foods and weight gain? Of course. No one denies this (you can bray all you want about this one). But you fail to see, you fail to even consider, that other factors often (not always) contribute to weight issues as well. Including ignorant, provincial, and unrealistic typologies of the sort you appear to be defending.

Oh, and that evidence you wanted provided:

Here's a bit on causes non environmental causes:
1. Farooqi IS, O’Rahilly S. Genetic factors in human obesity. Obesity Reviews 2007; 8(Suppl 1):37–40.
2. Bouchard C. The biological predisposition to obesity: beyond the thrifty genotype scenario.Int J Obes
2007;31:1337-9.
3. Gibbs W. Gaining on fat. Scientific American 1996; 275(2):88-94.


Here's some on high fructose corn syrup:
4. Heber D. An integrative view of obesity. Am J Clin Nutr 2010; 91:280S-283S.
5. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2002 Vol. 76, No. 5, 911-922.
6. Appleton, Nancy Ph.D., Fructose is No Answer For a Sweetener
8. http://www.mcvitamins.com/cornsyrup.htm
9. H. F. Bunn and P. J. Higgins, Reaction of Nonosaccharides with Proteins; Possible Evolutionary Significance,
Science 213 (1981):2222-2244.

And here's a fun little slide show (ooh, pictures!) that illustrated the problems with defining weight based on BMI:
10. http://kateharding.net/bmi-illustrated/

And there is increasing evidence that HFCS changes the way the body metabolizes sugars. This article raised the issue 5 years and more research has made the links clearer:
11. http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v13/n7/full/oby2005136a.html

Now what was it you said to me earlier? That "you can ignore evidence and reality all you want"? And what was the "fact" that you gave me? Oh yes, I remember. It was anecdotal, like my first offering. "All you have to do is go to the grocery store, and follow a shopping cart where there is a parent and obese kids (or an obese adult) and SEE what they are buying."

You're right. It's all so simple.

[happy_liberal]

13. You eat well, I eat well...that's not the point

Perhaps Michele is trying to protect children from their own ignorant parents.

Many people don't have the time or interest to learn about eating healthy, cooking for themselves etc.

She is trying to help the children of parents who aren't paying attention and doing right by them.

You can call the parents idiots, their making their own choices etc....but what about the children?

[paulsby]

26. i never called the parents idiots

and i think it's important that people are educated in healthy food choices and preparations.

i have a friend whose church does this for instance. they actually have this group where they get together, share healthy recipes and information with each other, etc.

community groups, etc. can do a lot.

back when i first started lifting competitively, i learned a lot from a very successful lifter who spends about 3-4 hrs every sunday and in that time manages to prepare a bunch of meals for the whole upcoming week

as for TIME, please check and see how many hours of television the average adult in the US watches.

based on that, it's pretty silly imo to argue that parents don't have TIME to prepare or learn to prepare healthy meals

and if people don't have the time or interest to learn about eating healthy for THEMSELVES, then it is THEMSELVES they are harming

if, otoh, they have kids, then it is their kids they are harming.

access to information has never been easier.

historically speaking, we generally learn our food habits, cooking, etc. from our parents.

to quote an old song "parents, teach your children well"

[BonnieJW]

16. In poor neighborhoods, there are no grocery stores

like supermarkets. There are stores like 7-11 types that mainly sell snacks and junk food. Never fresh produce. Many poor people would have to take a long bus ride to get to a real grocery store. Can you imagine having to travel that long after working two jobs, and then you're only able to get what you can carry home. It's not only the fault of the parents; sometimes it's availability.

[paulsby]

27. i lived and worked in the hood for years

and we had supermarkets.

i am sure there are some areas where supermarkets are a hike.

heck, in the neighborhoods i am referring to, we even had kick-ass farmer's markets on one day a week, and a very cool (and cheap) mexican ukrainian market that sold quality produce for cheap (10 limes for a DOLLAR i saw there two days ago).

many people still CHOSE to eat and buy crap

choices have consequences

[KittyWampus]

30. food deserts are an issue in some places but certainly not all.

[Johonny]

9. With complex problems there are rarely simple solutions.

The food industry is certainly not 100 % innocent but is unlikely to be the sole source of the problem.

[Zoeisright]

10. Yes, the food industry is at fault.

So is the destruction of the middle class by repukes. And the type of merchandise grocery stores in poor neighborhoods stock. Blaming the 'individual' is stupid. Because the 'individual' has to rely on location, income, and the federal government for his food.

[KittyWampus]

31. I"m not into blaming the individual but individuals have much more power than you seem to think.

[handmade34]

11. Yes, the food industry

shares considerably in the guilt. There are no innocents

[Hekate]

15. Remove HFCS from the food chain and see where we are in a couple of years. Bring back PE...

A lot of school districts have cut back on required Physical Education classes for kids to save money. Parents of latchkey kids are fearful of letting their kids roam outside after school and encourage them to stay indoors where it's "safer."

There are many causes -- only some of which are in a parent's control. Back in the day I didn't have to contend with HFCS being in just about everything.

It was a financial stretch on my modest salary, but to keep them occupied out of school I paid for my kids to be in an after school AYSO soccer program and in the YMCA summer programs. They had bikes.

For parents with fewer resources, community supported (those old taxes again) sports programs are vital, ones that encourage ALL kids to participate, not just the stars. Too often, those are lacking.

I limited my kids' snack foods severely because I figured it was a waste of money I could be using to feed them things that would "make you grow big and strong" -- but who could have imagined that High Fructose Corn Syrup was going to end up not only in soda pop but in canned stewed tomatoes, one of my favorite ingredients for stews and soups and crockpot dinners? Tomatoes (even canned) are supposed to be full of Vitamin A, not a manufactured sweetener that causes you to crave more and more of it.

With a "sweet" food item you can tell all by yourself that you need to limit that item -- soda, for instance; but when it's dribbled into everything else because some lab rat noticed that adding it makes a customer reach unconsciously for food products that include this high-impact sweetener, a consumer (see how we've been defined) almost doesn't stand a chance.

Complicated issue -- I believe in personal responsibility quite a bit. But my feeling of personal shame and blame diminishes in proportion to my outrage rising when I find out that major profit-making corporations have snuck up behind me and whacked me in the pancreas without my seeing them coming.

Hekate

[happy_liberal]

17. that and GM foods that were found to cause organ damage

Our foods are killing us. Bad nutrition is the leading cause of death in the US, related to heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc.


People assume we need to pay these astronomical medical costs in this country forever?

How much money would the US save in medical costs if we improved our food supply?

[The Genealogist]

18. I like your point about PE classes

I think students of all ages need PE and plenty of it. It is so important to teach children early on about the importance of being physically fit. Physical activity can provide so many benefits! Physical activity makes the body stronger and work more efficiently, helps regulate good sleeping habits, boosts mental activity, keeps the body strong to better fight off illness. And, done right, it can be fun and make you feel really good and energetic.

That all said, I wonder what PE looks like in schools now, where it has not been cut out. When I was in Junior High and High School, most days of PE was a coach throwing a bunch of basketballs at the students and going to his or her office. Many of the kids did nothing, bigger kids would use the time to attack smaller kids, and little was done to encourage actual physical fitness. I wish that would change. It was not until college that I actually learned much of value in a PE class, and I still look back on that basic PE course as a life-changing experience for me: I was not so disgustingly out of shape as to be of no value (as High School PE taught me I was), I learned the basics of how to effectively monitor my heart rate and other bodily functions, I learned how to do good, safe, physically beneficial exercise. I wish that I had learned such valuable ways to be proactive about my health in High School and before!

[Hekate]

19. Funny thing about PE: you have no idea how much I hated team sports. I was a severe myope...

... and there was some idiot rule that you either had to leave your glasses in your locker or wear headgear over them. Throw a ball at me and to this day I duck, because even after LASIK my depth perception is not that great. Without my glasses I was nearly incapacitated. When teams were chosen I made the bottom three every time: the other two were a girl who had had polio and a girl who had cerebral palsy.

As a child I was actually very physically active, running races with my friends and climbing trees, and as an adolescent the fact that we were a one-car family meant that we kids walked everywhere. I was in a lot better shape than anyone (including myself) gave me credit for.

My daughter's jr. high PE class was a world apart. She was a lot better coordinated than I ever was, loved sports, and I got her into contact lenses for the "family eyes" by the age of 12. However she started having sprained ankles over and over. When the pediatrician said that the problem was lax ligaments and that she would probably eventually outgrow it, the school put her into an adaptive PE program that involved weight training. I'd never heard of such a thing, but it was great.

Thanks to the last 20 years of defunding school programs I have no idea if it still exists, but it goes to show what can be done when someone puts a little thought into the actual needs of actual kids. Kids, no matter their innate abilities or lack thereof, NEED to move their bodies.

Hekate

[erpowers]

20. Different Experience

I am not trying to contradict what you said; I just had a different experience. The big kids were not allowed to beat up the small kids. The coach did not teach us about learning our heart rate. The coach just got us to play different sports during the year. Other than that students could do weight lifting during P.E.

[The Genealogist]

24. I am sure we all have different experiences

I can only rely on my own experience on the topic of PE in Junior High and High School. I have anecdotal evidence collected from over the years that many others had experiences similar to mine, as well. I am sure there are schools that do a better job teaching PE than mine did. I am glad too that you never were subjected to "suck ball." This is what the football players at my high school called a version of dodge ball they played. It involved them with whatever sports balls they could get their hands on (usually basketballs or soccer balls), and hurling them with all their strength at people smaller than themselves. With the coach in the office (I had five different PE teachers in high school and junior high, all coaches, who all five did this disappearing act on a regular basis), there was no supervision. On the rare occasions when they DID have fitness days, all five also saw fit to mock and prejudge the "losers" in class before any of the fitness "tests" were preformed. And, I did go to a very sports-oriented high school too. Automatic sprinklers on the fields, brand new gym floors, but many broken-off door handles and non-functioning clocks in the hallways. It took college PE to turn my attitude toward physical fitness around.

[Big Blue Marble]

21. Read :The End Of Overeating"

by David Kessler, MD, the former head of FDA, before you blame the individual.
Our food choices are seriously being manipulated for profit, period.
And much of the food advertising dollars are focused on trapping kids
early. Read more;think more before you blame the parents and the kids.
Then go out and inform your friends and family that we are in a war against these
corporate interests that just want our money at any cost to us and to our
society.

[Whisp]

28. yes, a large part of the problem is corporate sell

corporates with no conscience for the good of all but only conscience for profit and making the populace as unhealthy in body and mind as possible so as not to question the status quo.

they take the lion share of the blame, along with the many lawmakers, politicians, etc., that sit back and take money from these predators to discourage any real change and encourage the death of so many things once called 'american'.

the modern parent has an enormous job in raising kids as it is, nevermind having to duke it out with massive corporations to see who has the bigger blame on the pie chart.

[KittyWampus]

29. When I'm on the road, do you know how hard it is to get a low-carb, low-fat/sodium meal?

And you can forget vegetarian.

Unless you really do your homework to find decent restaurants and have the time to go out of your way to get to them.

At least in NYC I can get falafels or Indian food.

[jmowreader]

37. It's not totally the food industry's fault, though they play a part

Because I sell food I have a dog in this fight.

I work in the Dairy department at my store--fluid milk including soy milk, organic milk and cream, eggs, cheese, yogurt, butter, juices, refrigerated dough, and "other non-fluid dairy products" like sour cream. In the juice department I sell some really high-end shit like acai berry juice and organic smoothies. Those run $13-$14 a gallon and come in bottles ranging from a quart to 1.75 litres, so they don't sell all that well but they do sell. Then I have the 100-percent juice products. They sell pretty well. The house-brand orange juice costs $1.85 for a half-gallon and it's fine. The very fastest-selling product I have? Bright & Early. Coca-Cola makes it...it's been on the market for decades. They had it when I was little, and William Taft was president when I was little so it's not a new product. Contains water, HFCS, Vitamin C, orange color, a product to keep it from being transparent, and something to make it taste like orange. It costs a buck for a half-gallon, and people in every income bracket buy it. LOTS of it. I was stocking it last Saturday and a very well-dressed woman came up and asked for "one of those." I held out a carton. "No, no. One of those." And pointed at an unopened CASE of the shit--eight half-gallons of it. (Yes, I sold her a whole case of it. Why not?) I got some and tried it...you know how they sell Country Time lemonade in bottles, right? If Tang were sold in bottles it would taste a lot like Bright & Early.

We even TRY to discourage people from buying it. In most of the grocery store they put the expensive stuff at eye level and higher to encourage people to buy it. In the juice business you put the good stuff down at eye level for a three-year-old because little kids are the real drivers in juice sales. The Bright & Early is on the most inaccessible shelf in the case, and people still buy it as fast as we can put it out.

Yes, Coke is bad people for making this stuff and selling it for people to drink with breakfast. And yes, we're bad people for buying it in the first place. The flipside is, when people make choices this bad when much better choices are sitting right next to the bad ones, the consumer has to bear some responsibility too.

[LeftishBrit]

42. 'Should more blame be put on individuals?'

No. Or rather, there will always be *particular* individuals who simply have stupid ideas about what's good for themselves or their children, or who just don't care - but I feel very strongly that blaming individuals is *not* the solution to wider social problems. Unless one is a right-winger.

However, it's not *just* a matter of the food industry. It's also a matter of poor education about food; poverty resulting in healthier options being hard to access (the food industry *can* be blamed for making them more expensive); and a culture where people are highly dependent on the car. This has two spin-offs: people don't walk as much and get the exercise that goes with that, and people who don't have/ can't afford cars may have limited choice as to where they can buy food. At least that aspect is better in the UK than the USA.

Also, life is more sedentary in general than it used to be. Children are more likely to play computer or video games indoors, and there is less expectation and opportunity for outdoor play.

[upi402]

48. see 'Food Inc' for sraters please OP n/t