Check in here if you're still against this bill

[begin_within]

Any bill that doesn't have one of the following: real public option, Medicare buy-in, or single payer is not worth passing, in my opinion. It's worse than doing nothing and is just another corporate giveaway and another step towards the replacement of government and the public sector by a privately-owned corporate economic apparatus.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. I'm still against it for the reasons you cited plus the stupid mandate.

[NightWatcher]

2. I'm tired of it all. It's pointless back and forth (and I'm on your side)

I get too caught up in this banter which doesnt count for anything once the computer is turned off.

The corporations have us all screwed and we dont even get the benefit of a reacharound.

It is what it is and that's all it is.

It's St Pattys, so raise a pint

My friends are the best friends
Loyal, willing and able.
Now let’s get to drinking!
All glasses off the table!

[slipslidingaway]

3. Still against the bill, the Dems had a real opportunity with two-thirds

of the citizens supporting a national HC system and should have built on that support.

Instead attention was diverted to a uniquely american solution ... we could all have a choice of public or private plans.

Then they pushed the mandate and took away the public option, just what the insurance companies said they wanted, even before Obama was elected.

:(

[Mari333]

4. knr

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. I am not in favor of the bill as it stands.

I do not like being forced into a relationship with a private company that does not have my best interests in mind.

[customerserviceguy]

7. Checking in

And no matter which way this thing goes, this place is going to erupt like Mt. St. Helens when it's over with. I've never seen us more divided over anything like this.

[EFerrari]

8. I don't support this insurance mandate. n/t

[mdmc]

10. I think the bill is a good as the corporations will allow

I support the dems and Obama, but think this is one shitty bill to support. So my support is about as strong as my man DK.

Clearly, this bill will do nothing to increase access to affordable medical care for the working class or the poor. It will be a big failure. We should have gone for real reform or leave it alone. Yet I support the crappy bill..

:kick: and R in solidarity for those that still stand for real reform.

[salguine]

22. You just called it "shitty", and then said, in no uncertain terms,

"Clearly, this bill will do nothing to increase access to affordable medical care for the working class or the poor. It will be a big failure. We should have gone for real reform or leave it alone."

So why do you support it, then? Is it because it's just easier to go along? Please help me understand.

[mdmc]

26. (facepainting david Puddy on Seinfeld) Ya gotta support the team

I support Obama and the dems. They want this corporate crap. All I can do is go along with them.

I know this bill will do nothing for me, and will not increase access to affordable medical treatment.
I know this bill will be a failure.
It sucks.
But it is our corporate 'good cops' want it.

It is easier to just go along.
I have no power, no money, nothing. I am very sick and lack medical treatment.
I think that for-profit health insurance is evil and needs to be done away with.

Too bad the democRats dont want it.

Peace and low stress salguine. I am sorry to be such a debbie downer.
God bless..

[Occulus]

32. No, you do NOT have to "support the team"!

WTF do you think this is, a spectator sport?

Team? TEAM??

Here's a hint: if this bill really IS as bad as some of us are saying, THEN "supporting the team" and "going along to get along" are the root and branch of the problem.

I'm not going to make any judgments of the proposed health care reform bill until it is passed into law and I can see the hard-and-fast result. From what I'm hearing about it, I don't like it, but then, I'm hearing many different things from many different places.

To those who say "read the bill", well, I don't have time to read the equivalent of two copies of Hugo's Les Miserables in the time between now and when it comes to a vote. Sorry.

To those who say "kill the bill", well, from what I've been hearing, maybe we should start over. We can't. We have to accept what's in front of us and try to fix the problems with it after it's passed, if it gets passed.

Fixing it is up to us. WE have to pressure our Representatives and Senators to fix the problems the bill will create once it's passed. I understand it doesn't kick in for four years. That's plenty of time to find and fix the problems before it takes effect.

All of that said, I don't like what I'm hearing thus far. I don't like the idea that it may be too late to fix once it's passed. I don't like the fact (not idea or opinion) that our lawmakers are so completely out-of-touch with those of us who live paycheck to paycheck and can barely afford rent and bills and food and gas.

I don't think this is a good bill as is, on balance, and I don't think it'll help more people than it harms, as is.

It shouldn't harm anyone. Period. But I know it will, in some cases, and those are the first parts of the bill/law that need to be fixed.

[mdmc]

43. I agree with everything you posted in the reply

peace and low stress and good health..

[thotzRthingz]

9. count me AGAINST because I see no: "real public option, Medicare buy-in, or single payer" (n/t)

[Toasterlad]

11. This Bill Puts No Real Restrictions On Corporations While It Forces People To Pay Them Money.

Hell yes I'm against it. This is worse than if they'd done nothing.

[frylock]

12. i do not support the mandate

[Raine]

13. Against it nt

x(

[Marr]

14. I'm against the institutionalization of the health insurance industry.

Health insurance is not health care. I thought that was the problem we all agreed had to be fixed.

[salguine]

15. Fuck, fuck, FUCK THIS BILL. You know what this Democratic Congress reminds me of? I posted

this elsewhere, but I'll post it here again.

Remember that incident that came out during the Jeffrey Dahmer trial, where that one kid got away from Dahmer and was running down the street, and he flagged down two passing cops? And the cops handed the kid back over to Dahmer? I couldn't think of any metaphor that sums up the way this Democratic Congress has handled this whole thing. The Democratic Congress are like those two cops, the people of this country are the naked kid running down the street in desperate need of help. You can guess which character the insurance cartels are.

They were elected in 2008 to rescue us, basically, and instead of protecting us from the insurance cartels, they've delivered us right over to them to be devoured instead.

[merkins]

27. &r

K&R

[AnOhioan]

16. Was against it before, still am.

[leftstreet]

17. Against n/t

[Individualist]

18. Still against this bonanza for insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

[Eyerish]

19. Right here...

Federally mandated give-aways to for-profit insurance companies is not the answer.

[Maat]

20. I still am against this bill.

Mandating that individuals buy insurance from monstrous private corporations (mandating that they enter a contract involuntarily) stands in complete juxtaposition to our fundamental rights AND our Universe-given birthrights.

[spoony]

21. Here.

It's not the reform we need, and I don't believe that "fix it later" shit for a moment.

[Edweird]

23. Present.

[tavalon]

24. Honestly, I don't know if I'm against the current iteration

I figured out a couple of moves ago, that I was being gamed so I quit playing. It was being treated like a super bowl and I'm not interested in Washington playing ball with me and my compatriots lives that way.

[emilyg]

25. k

[merkins]

28. & r

K&R

[Hun Joro]

29. Hello! K&R

[Luciferous]

30. I'm against it, mainly because of the mandate and the lack of a public option

[lwcon]

31. The "public option" is designed not to be real, so that's a non-starter for me

Yes, I'm against the bill.

[TorchTheWitch]

33. still against it

Even with the public option originally proposed it still wasn't good enough to justify mandates. It wasn't available to most people since it was only for those people who didn't get insurance through their job, and therefore would not have been anything close to a way to "keep insurance companies honest". In fact, insurance companies would have used it as a dumping ground for their customers that actually used their products instead of just paying for their products.

Neither the bill that passed the House nor the one that passed the Senate addresses the fundamental problems of healthcare in this country and actually both bills made the situation worse for most people. They don't bring down the cost of insurance nor arrest higher costs. They stengthen the insurance companies that were the problem to begin with.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever that had the Repubs come up with these same exact bills there wouldn't be a sole here cheerleading for it.

[Stand and Fight]

34. Very strongly opposed.

However, I don't see the sense of discussing it with the supporters here. Civil discussion and logic seem to have gone out of the window. Were Bush and the Republicans trying to accomplish the same things Democrats are pushing for in this bill, the current supporters would be against it. I will not support a bad bill just because the people pushing it happen to call themselves Democrats. I don't think some here fully understand the severe repercussions this bill will have on the country and its citizens -- not to mention at the ballot box this year and two years hence.

[Alexander]

35. *cough* *cough* The Senate bill has Sanders' single-payer amendment *cough* *cough*

[EFerrari]

36. What does that even mean to you?

[Alexander]

38. It means that the states can choose a single-payer system if they want to.

It also means that a lot of pissed off DUers haven't even bothered to read the bill.

[EFerrari]

39. Do you really think so? Well, it's possible. Anger at DC is mounting

everywhere. Obama is reaping what the torture president sowed in that respect. And I'll just ignore the gratuitous slam at people who disagree with you.

[amborin]

37. i don't support the excise tax, etc..............

[joeybee12]

40. Of course, for me it was never about DK...he's a politician and I hope he got

some sort of deal for his sell-out...but a bad bill is still a bad bill.

[liberal_at_heart]

41. a mandate without a public option is a blank check for the insurance companies

I am definitely still against it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Despite the layers of artfully applied lipstick, I'm still opposed to this pig of bill.