O.K., Let's Say I Am Mandated To Buy Insurance, And I Refuse. Now What?

[Dinger]

While I'm in a debtor's prison waiting for this bill to be "fixed", what's my best strategy? Gimme some ideas please. Thanks.:)

[Name removed]

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[LakeSamish706]

2. Enjoy your time in jail where you will get three squares aday and medical coverage. n/t

[Name removed]

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[Dinger]

3. Don't Worry, I Won't. (nt)

[jody]

4. While you're in debtor's prison you'll have excellent health care, access to free education, & other

benefits available to unemployed and homeless.

[Dinger]

6. Yay!

:sarcasm:

[Nikki Stone1]

8. Until they set up prisons as workhouses so we can compete with China

Prison labor has been a major investment since the 90s.

[kenny blankenship]

11. One way or another, your body will be compost for corporate profits

[Nikki Stone1]

18. Sure seems that way.

:(

[jody]

29. Soylent Green not for We the People but to feed that avaricious appetite of We the Corporation.

[DevonRex]

19. Oh look. It's the Workhouse Conspiracy Theory. That's a new one.

:rofl:

[ChiciB1]

22. AND, I m A Person Who Reads A LOT Of True Crime Books... IF YOU'RE

really good and play by the rules... SOME prisons have better health care than others!!

Sorry, I KNOW it doesn't answer your questions and probably doesn't make you feel much better, but I have read this statement quite a few times. And I've heard that criminals DO use it as LEVERAGE!

Sick, huh?

[jody]

27. I see prisoners in a federal prison every day working in soft jobs in govt. facilities enjoying

health care denied to unemployed and homeless, and attending college courses at government expense.

I've attended a few graduation ceremonies where a few of those prisoners received undergraduate & graduate degrees.

Perhaps it's different in many other prisons but what I stated is a fact in federal prisons. :shrug:

[ChiciB1]

30. I Don't Doubt What You're Saying For a Minute!!! n/t

[Name removed]

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[2Design]

9. you will have health care in prison - much better than you get outside BUT

you are confined - so if you need an operation or something, get arrest and get it fixed while in there

[tallahasseedem]

10. Then the tax payers

will be forced to foot your medical bills if you were to get sick. It's really no different than if you refused to buy car insurance and were to get in an accident.

[Occulus]

28. Except that you can choose not to own a car in the first place. n/t

[gmoney]

12. you may already be dead by the time any of this actually takes effect

When does it start phasing in? 2042? 2525? If man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may find they have coverage...

[Hippo_Tron]

13. You're going to have to try REALLY REALLY hard to get to debtor's prison

The IRS will garnish your wages to collect the fine that comes from not buying insurance, assuming you make enough money to not be exempt from the mandate. When you start creating multiple identities or other ways to defraud the IRS, that's when it becomes possible to see the inside of a prison cell.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. your taxes will go up a little bit.

You could refuse to pay your taxes, but they would probably just take it out of your wages.

[Tailormyst]

15. They add the fine to your taxes

[FrenchieCat]

16. You will be fined $94 dollars in 2014,

and incrementally more as time goes on (as shown below).

Fines assessed will be added to your taxes.

The fines/penalties are actually to pay in to a fund that would be used to pay for catastrophic coverage for those who choose to opt out of the insurance requirement.


Require U.S. citizens and legal residents to have qualifying health coverage. Those without coverage pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085) per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased-in according to the following schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014, 2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016. Beginning after 2016, the penalty will be increased annually by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions will be granted for financial hardship, religious objections, American Indians, those without coverage for less than three months, undocumented immigrants, incarcerated individuals, if the lowest cost plan option exceeds 8% of an individual’s income, and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009 the threshold for taxpayers under age 65 is $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples).
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/sidebyside.cfm

[ChiciB1]

24. Do You Have To Be A Full-Blooded American Indian Or Can You Just

have "some" Indian blood?? This could be an out for my kids!

[FrenchieCat]

35. Probably have had to have registered as a member of a specific tribe,

I would imagine.

[ChiciB1]

52. Well, We Have Registered With The Seminole Tribe Here... But The

blood line is thin. Still they say if you are part Indian, you can be registered. Don't know how that gets enforced though.

I have insurance now, and probably better than some because it's through a Union, but you never know what will happen.

[Shrek]

17. Nothing will happen. The mandate is not enforceable.

Page 336 of the Senate bill (PDF link):

(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—

(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

[FrenchieCat]

20. It's not criminally enforceable,

but they can eventually do all that they can to collect it, like they do other taxes that go unpaid, short of throwing you in jail though.

[Shrek]

26. What else could they do?

The same page also says:

"The Secretary shall not file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or levy on any such property with respect to such failure."

So other than collection letters (which can be ignored since they're not criminally enforceable), what else could they try to do to collect?

That's a real question, BTW; I'm curious about what methods might be employed.

[FrenchieCat]

33. Most likely taking it out of your wages via an employer,

or if one has any tax refund coming back, taking it out of there.

[Autumn]

42. A garnishment of your

wages,is probably what they would do. The IRS, the nastiest collection agency there is.

[girl gone mad]

51. It will be way too hard to do any real enforcement..

and there will be far too many ways for people to avoid the taxes.

I foresee membership at certain churches increasing dramatically, for one.

[CTyankee]

21. Maybe not "criminal" but other? If I don't pay a bill, I am not a criminal but

they'll still come after my assets, won't they?

If you don't have the income or the assets in the first place, wouldn't you qualify for subsidized care?

[ChiciB1]

25. Got Kids??? n/t

[CTyankee]

32. Kids are grown. But I don't understand your reference. Explain, please? Thanks...

[ChiciB1]

47. Late Reply, But I Was Thinking That If No Payment Was Made & There

was some sort of outstanding debt should you pass away, then that debt might become the obligation of any kids or relatives who may be beneficiaries of a will.

Don't know how this would work in this case, but I have "heard" of other people who were obligated to settle debts on homes or other assets that were outstanding.

I've heard that people who have Reverse Mortgages are required to pay off the amount or sell the property. Or people who die and owe IRS taxes and the beneficiaries might have to settle the debt. Does this happen with the IRS? I've just heard stories from people and never researched these issues. Just doing my own taxes each year, the book you get makes a reference, then says get this document, then look here for this answer then check out this form, and on and on. I just figured I'd run into the same situation if I tried to research this kind of stuff because sometimes I want to throw my hands up and ask "why does this have to be so complicated"? And this is only for filing a 1040 each year.

Since I'm not sure how this works here, it might be something that would apply, being that the government is mandating payment. Do you follow what I'm saying or is this not a valid point? I really don't know the answer.

Sorry to be so late, but had some things to do.

[ChiciB1]

49. Reading Some Replies Here Now... Am Getting That Others Are Concerned

about the same thing I am. Would the payment accrue interest at the same rate that IRS taxes might. On this issue I think we've ALL heard some horror stories about astronomical amounts of money that people owe when they don't pay their taxes.

I don't know how they figure the interest and penalties, but given that someone might owe $3,000.00 for one year, in ten years how much would that grow??

Is this covered in the bill, or addressed in some way?

[FrenchieCat]

34. They will not levy or lien your property......

so no, they cannot come after your assets.

[jtuck004]

53. Money owed to the government and enforced by the IRS?

Why not? They can come after Grants for school, any assets you have. They can even get it from your social security money - friend of mine lost his breastbone post an infection after heart surgery. Can't work, finally on Medicaid, now has $300 a month deducted from his check for a previous tax liability. Keeps him from eating every day, can't afford that and rent.

[riderinthestorm]

55. Do you have a link for that?

Those of us who cannot afford the premium or the penalty would like to know....

If the IRS can't come after you for the assets, I'd like to know that....

[Johonny]

23. seems like it

I appears to be design to get people to sign up for health insurance. It's a tax penalty but if you don't file a return... There is no clear idea how they plan to enforce it.

[Nikki Stone1]

31. This is about late payment of penalty

Not about continuous lack of payment.

Insurance penalties, like IRS penalities, could eventually end you up in prison.

[FrenchieCat]

36. The penalty imposed is what you would pay......i.e., the "payment" or lackthereof

Say that Penalty in 2014 is $94 dollars.
The failure to pay this penalty is not a criminal offense,
and therefore you will not end up in Prison,
nor will your property be levied or liened.

so what are you saying exactly? :shrug:

[Shrek]

40. The language doesn't read that way

It says "any failure to timely pay."

Ongoing, sustained refusal to pay certainly qualifies as "any failure" IMO.

[upi402]

43. That excludes CRIMINAL, not CIVIL though

As I read it.

[Shrek]

61. Liens or levies on property are also prohibited

What other civil penalties could be imposed?

[bvar22]

37. Obama and the Democrats already have this covered.

The IRS WILL be the collection agency.

This bill is certainly historical in that sense.

It FORCES every American to BUY Health Insurance from a For Profit Corporation, and if you don't, the IRS comes after you.

[joeybee12]

38. You'll go to jail for that, but not about lying about going to war...n/t

[Xipe Totec]

39. Death panels, or so I've heard nt

[librechik]

41. nobody is going to jail for not paying a $90 fine.

and I'm with the posters who invited you to enjoy your entitled benefits while in this mythical debtor's prison.

[Jamastiene]

44. I figure they'll either jail me or continue to take everything I have

until I am homeless. Then, when I am getting ready to die, I'm going to find a place very close to a courthouse or federal building and concealing myself well right before I die. I want my body to rot under the fuckers' noses for a while before they find it. I want them to have to search for it hard enough to have to smell it for a good long while. It's the least I could do to repay their snobbery. Anyone with their noses that far in the air that they cannot see the poor will not be able to afford this even with the lousy tiny little subsidies everyone keeps hitting me in the face with deserves to smell my rotten corpse and then some.

[EFerrari]

45. While we're in prison, the IRS will have a hiring boom?

:silly:

[salguine]

46. I wonder whether anyone has given any thought to bringing about a

class-action lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of forcing people to buy a private product. Any attorneys out there? Thoughts?

[Shrek]

60. The AG in Virginia

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/article.cfm?ID=22897

[Moochy]

48. If years of television drama is any guide...

have your cellmate fake a sudden illness and when the guard comes to check on your cellmate, smash him between the shoulderblades with a double-fisted Captain Kirk overhead chop!

then on to freedom!

[Ikonoklast]

50. Two guys names Moose and Big Louie pay you a little 'visit'.

They have a nice 'talk' with you, and afterwards you agree to write the check, just to 'make nice'.

[Orangepeel]

54. You won't get a tax refund

Unless the premiums would be more than 8% of your income, in which case nothing will happen.

[elias7]

56. why would you refuse?

Unless you're in abject poverty, why wouldn't you get health insurance if you had the chance?

[Nikki Stone1]

57. :)

:

[comrade snarky]

58. Shank or be shanked is likely

Don't let anyone see you being afraid of getting hit in the face either.

Oh, and try to have someone on the outside send you cigarettes. Those thing are money.

[Hekate]

59. Up to you. Just kindly pay the full cost of whatever medical care you need at the ER, OR,...

... doc's office, etc. I have a friend who negotiated her rates one-on-one with each medical provider, which works fine unless you are broken in pieces from a car wreck and need emergency care this minute.

I take it you are giving us permission to not really bother about your decision. Go ahead, it's still a sort of free country.

Hekate

:shrug:

[Nikki Stone1]

62. .

.

[county worker]

63. I think you get a $90 dollar fine.

You'll pay less than you do for your internet connection in fines. How much do you spend for High Speed internet anyway?