Consumer Reports: Toyota investigation reveals more details in San Diego Prius case (faked runaway!)

[Omaha Steve]

In fairness to the stories about Toyota I have posted, I'm posting this that confirms it didn't happen the way the driver said it did.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/03/toyota-investigation-reveals-more-details-in-san-diego-sikes-prius-case.html

March 17, 2010

This week, Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) released preliminary findings into the reported case of unintended acceleration in the San Diego area, involving a 2008 Prius. Both organizations independently stated that they were unable to duplicate the conditions described by the driver, nor find evidence that the vehicle could not stop. (Read: "Toyota shares finding in runaway Prius investigation" and "NHTSA can’t duplicate runaway Prius report, investigation continues.")

At the Toyota press conference Monday, officials explained that its investigators established that the driver had stepped on the brake pedal at least 250 times while the engine was revving above idle speed. That's significant because one hard application of the brakes should have stopped that car, while 250 light presses would have only worn out the brakes--as was documented.

Toyota representatives recounted how they were unable to replicate the sequence of events reported by James Sikes, who had claimed that his 2008 Prius sped out of control for more than 20 minutes on a California interstate highway on March 8th. Toyota officials and technicians had examined the suspect Prius at an El Cajon, California, dealership, where they repaired its worn front brakes and then tried to reproduce a condition where the brakes would not stop the car. They couldn't.

The fact that Toyota couldn't replicate a sudden unintended acceleration (SUA) event is not surprising. SUAs tend to be rare, unpredictable events. But Toyota's preliminary findings about the condition of this car after the event throw doubt on the driver's report.

The braking story
Unlike many Toyotas, the Prius is equipped with a form of brake override that reduces engine power when the brakes are applied hard, no matter what is happening with the gas pedal. That system is not designed to be a brake override as such, a Toyota spokesman told us, but rather to serve as a fail-safe to prevent damage to the hybrid system.

FULL story at link.

[sailor65]

1. I feel like the baby in the ETrade commercial.....

Let me show you my "Shocked" face.....

:-)

[librechik]

2. funny--toyota never responds to the fact that the brakes were burned out

as the other investigative agency found.

[Tesha]

3. I don't think you understand; this *WAS* a direct response to that.

The reason the brakes were burned out was that they were
lightly applied for a very long time. Had they been firmly
applied, the car would have stopped.

Just as a quick data point: 50 HP dissipated in the brakes
represents about 37,000 watts of heat. By comparison,
a typical electric stove, with all elements and its oven
running, only dissipates about 10,000 watts. At those
sorts of power levels, a car can very quickly toast its
brakes if that's your intention.

Tesha

[librechik]

4. unless a computer glitch was causing it to happen

Then he might have been "standing on the brake" as reported, yet the computer system would not allow that pressure to apply to the actual braking system.

Until Toyota agrees to look into the computer problems, few will trust their conclusions.

[Tesha]

5. Of course.

It was a simultaneous malfunction of the braking logic,
the transmission logic, and the throttle management logic
but the engine management computer simultaneously
stayed sane enough to keep operating the timed fuel
injection and the timed ignition system.

Or the guy was faking it.

I'm pretty sure I know which of these two scenarios *I*
think is more likely.

Tesha

[snooper2]

11. but but but,,,,the Prius isn't your standard car...

it's got 'puters and stuff running everything with trillions of lines of code and like, anything can happen right?

Sometimes my browser locks up and freezes and when that happens my Outlook gets really slow so see..it could happen!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Tesha]

13. The funny part is that it is vaguely possible that the realtime threads...

...that run the fuel injection and the spark *COULD* stay
alive while some lower priority threads got blocked, but
even if we put-aside the idea that braking control is probably
a pretty-high-priority thread, there's the little matter of
watchdog timers.

If the main control loop ain't executing fully, the odds are
very high that one or more watchdog timers aren't getting
reset either, and the entire system will be rebooted in the
next second or so.

But hey, as you said, among those trillions of lines of code
that are doubtless running the Prius, anything could happen,
right? ;-)

Tesha

[Codeine]

6. Consumer Reports running a pro-Toyota story?!

I'M SHOCKED! SHOCKED I SAY!!

[Giant Robot]

7. So Toyota investigated and found they did nothing wrong

Ummmmm ok.

So the next criminal proceeding we really should let the defendant do their own investigation with the police and go with what they say. That seems to be ok here so let's start doing this with our criminal justice system as well.

Hey buddy you have been charged with four counts of murder.

Nope I investigated and found it wasn't me.

Well ok then you are free to go.

To be clear, I have no dog in this fight and honestly I'm not sure if the Prius owner's story is true or not. My point is when the hell did we let corporations start doing their own investigating and then go with that?

[divideandconquer]

8. Trusting Toyota to investigate their blackboxes is like asking Diebold to investigate votingmachines

Consumer Reports needs investigated, they often act like Toyota's PR department.

[NoGOPZone]

12. Who do you suggest investigate? More importantly, who pays? nt

[nc4bo]

9. Basically.

Your scenario is accurate. But you forgot the cozy connection factor.

Isn't it also well known that the NTSB has some cozy connections with auto companies (not just Toyota)?

[uponit7771]

14. Cogent

[Fumesucker]

10. The CHP has reported that the brake lights on the Toyota were flashing on and off..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100318/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius_california_1

EL CAJON, California – A California Highway Patrol report released Wednesday said an officer saw brake lights flashing after arriving to help slow a speeding Toyota Prius on a Southern California freeway.

The account in the report is consistent with details the driver and CHP officer gave reporters shortly after the incident. Toyota, however, has cast doubt on the driver's story.

The report said the CHP officer trailed the Prius at 95 mph on Interstate 8 east of San Diego, and the car slowed to about 50 mph before the officer told driver Jim Sikes over a loudspeaker to hit the floor brake and emergency brake simultaneously.

Sikes gradually came to an unassisted stop and was not injured.

[uponit7771]

15. Yeap, even LIGHT pressing of the brake would'e slowed the car enough over a long stretch