I can't support "deem and pass". Do you?

[LLStarks]

I support HCR and reconciliation as much as the next guy here, but I'm getting quite tired of all these parliamentary techniques that keep popping up. Have things gotten so bad that we can't even get an up or down vote in the House?

[Xenotime]

1. I support it if it means getting HCR done.

[Gman2]

2. Unless it is illegal, it is game, any whining, is misplaced. Close that gap then.

[librechik]

3. it is an up or down vote. They merely combined 2 bills they were voting aye on

not controversial or unusual at all. Saves the taxpayers money, in fact.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. If it's allowed in accordance with the rules of the House, why not?

The Republicans, notwithstanding their outraged spluttering, have used deem and pass over 100 times. http://www.salon.com/news/healthcare_reform/index.html?story=/opinion/conason/2010/03/17/ornstein

I guess using procedural tactics is bad only when Democrats do it.

[SoFlaJet]

5. they already fucking voted on it

yes if the scumbag republican party can use so can we-sorry sometimes you have to get just as fucking mean as your opponet to win-fuck them pass the fucking bill already.

[robinblue]

18. The House already voted on the House bill but now they vote on the

Senate bill is the way I understand it. Then they 'fix' it with the reconciliation bill. Right?

[FiveGoodMen]

20. Passing this bill will not be winning.

[SoFlaJet]

21. Sez you anyway

let's say you get your wish and the bill fails-and the republicans in 2010 run on a platform that says "the democrat(sic) party can't do anything right-vote for us" and if they win, will that make you happy?

[FiveGoodMen]

24. Let's say it passes, everyone hates it, and the pukes say, "See what the Dems did?!"

That's what I expect will happen.

[SoFlaJet]

25. Dude

they're going to run against it no matter what-fuck the republicans man-I do NOT fear them this year. Their platform as per Mitch McConnell is "we'll repeal HCR" yea great move there. Should get them every tea bagger vote

[Gman2]

6. Furthermore, do you avoid Uturns unless you have a sign that says you can?

[DJ13]

7. I find it interesting

While I agree that deem & pass is somewhat cheating, if they use it for HCR that many dont approve of, how are they going to explain that they cant use it to do the things they promised when we voted for them?

It seems like they would lose the "we cant" excuse afterwords.

[Tx4obama]

17. Huh?

Why is it cheating?
The House is VOTING on the Senate bill and 'the fix' at the same time.
They are VOTING.
Everyone needs to stop listening to the republican spin on this issue.
The Republicans never had a problem with 'deem and pass' when they used it in the past.
Republicans are only trying to cause an uproar with the American public every way they can.

The 'deem and pass' procedure IS part of the House rules.
It is legal and fair game ;)

[SoFlaJet]

22. I guess it just shows where

a lot of people on this board get their information from when you said this Tx; "Everyone needs to stop listening to the republican spin on this issue."

[CreekDog]

19. It's not cheating, it's a way for folks to say they voted for the good parts of the Senate Bill

and the fixes for the bad parts.

so that not all of them is accused of voting for the Nebraska compromise.

[CreekDog]

8. adoption of the conference report is a parliamentary technique

as are all kinds of things.

i don't understand why you need the House to vote separately on the Senate bill when they can vote on the Senate Bill and their changes to it simultaneously.

what the hell is the difference?

[Gold Metal Flake]

14. +1

[Winterblues]

9. What is the problem?

They present a hundred page Reconciliation bill that is entirely geared to addfress the Senate Bill. It makes no sense what-so-ever to present that Bill if they are not going to approve the Senate Bill. They just say okay it is a done deal now this is how we fix it. I fail to understand your problem with this. It isn't like it has never been done.

[DFLforever]

10. Yes, I do.

Solves a sticky problem for a few Dems and gets HCR passed. They'll only have to vote on one, not two bills. Plus the Repubs used it all the time... so why can't we...Dems are members of the same legislative body.

[4lbs]

11. Who cares as long as it passes? 20 years from now, no one will care HOW it passes, only that it DID

Deem and Pass has already been used about 85 times over the past 5 years.

So, it's not rare.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100317/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1275_4

<snip>
In one sense, the deem-and-pass maneuver is nothing exotic on Capitol Hill. It has been used to move other controversial measures through Congress, such as a ban on using statistical sampling in the 2000 census and the employment verification system to weed out illegal immigrants. And as with reconciliation, it is not the monopoly of either party. Brookings congressional scholar Thomas Mann told USA Today that the deem-and-pass maneuver was employed 36 times in 2005 and 2006, when the GOP had majorities in Congress, and 49 times in the Democratic-controlled sessions of 2007 and 2008.
<snip>

[BlueIdaho]

12. Deem and Pass saves time and energy.

Its green baby...

[Bitwit1234]

13. Where are you posts about not supporting it the 36 times

the republicans used it...when I google I don't find anything.

[DefenseLawyer]

15. No one cares.

Of all the things to be angry or disappointed or disillusioned about in this whole thing, parliamentary procedure ain't one of them. Seriously, no one actually cares.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. I'm not a teabagger.

So no, I don't have a problem with it.

[karynnj]

23. No problem here - think of it as hyper text (Senate bill) and a list (reconciliation)

If someone gave you information on the contents of anything (even a grocery list) this way, would you think it a problem.

Still, I do agree that as the 2 votes shouldn't really be a problem, it might be good to do it as two votes and avoid the argument.

[Oregone]

26. The HCR is a steaming piece of shit. That aside, this is the only feasible way

If the House votes for the Senate bill, reconciliation would fall apart and you'd get fucked. Its irresponsible for any House member to vote for that without the changes attached.

[bbinacan]

27. + 1

[Warpy]

28. Please understand this one overriding fact

REPUBLICANS ARE ABUSING THE FILIBUSTER.

If this were not the case, none of these procedural rules would be invoked.

As it is, be damned grateful they are.

[Maru Kitteh]

29. THANKS FOR YOUR "CONCERN" - yes I support HCR and I don't care how it gets done.