A reminder of what $10 an hour looks like

[SoCalDem]

Bear in mind, that most $10 hr people do even get the opportunity to work 35 hrs a week...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x468622



please notice that there is nothing in the budget for car insurance, food, or even an emergency fund.

[tekisui]

1. Yeah, and these numbers are veerrrrry conservative.

$15 a month for water and gas, $30 for power is unheard of, at least where I live.

[OhioChick]

3. Too conservative...not to mention the $50/wk for daycare. n/t

[timo]

101. yup

150 a week here.

[Maine-ah]

155. my daughter goes twice a week for half a day.

$50 a week. It's a pre-school class held in day care. 830-noon. I can't afford the whole week or even 2 full days, which is an additional 14 bucks a day.

[SoCalDem]

4. I deliberately made the costs conservative

so that people could do their own math & see how much "awful-er" it really is..

[me b zola]

87. I understand and appreciate why you used conservative figures

Because had you used average amounts some would have cried foul saying how they could get a service cheaper than your figures.


Thank you for this thread, the working class seem to be invisible to so many.

[bobbolink]

219. Then that would make the poor "class" positively nonexistant.

:(

[awoke_in_2003]

229. yep...

richest country in the world, and we can't end homelessness. Fucking disgrace.

[hfojvt]

121. except for taxes, which you made way too high

especially for one with a child

[Wednesdays]

159. So, if the person paid ZERO taxes, even FICA

He/she'd have a whopping $79.28 to spend on food.

Woo-hoo! Caviar and champagne time!

[axollot]

200. I thought it represented when 10hr was almost reasonable 15yrs ago. n/t

[intheflow]

28. $500 for rent is way low for urban areas.

Especially if you have kids and need one or more bedrooms.

[Kaleva]

33. It's very high for rural areas.

[intheflow]

46. Seriously? I call bullshit.

I bought my house in a very rural area of Massachusetts in 1998. My mortgage was $589/mo. plus another $6k a year in taxes and insurance. Maybe in the middle of Nebraska or Oklahoma where there are no jobs anywhere so no one's buying houses. Plus, no bank in America will give a mortgage loan to someone making $10/hr.

[Maru Kitteh]

62. Actually Nebraska has very, very low unemployment and a healthy housing market

I can find you a hundred apartments and dwellings to live in for less than $500 - in average working class areas too. Not luxury apartments but clean and safe with security.

So yeah. Seriously.

$500 can be high for a rural area.

A bank will give you a loan for a house with much less than $10/hr income if you have a good credit history or a sufficient down payment.

[intheflow]

75. First of all: "sufficient down payment."

How are you going to save for that making $10/hr? Secondly, the reason homes are so cheap in your area is because unemployment is so high. My family lives in rural Michigan and the housing glut there is scandalous because there are no jobs so no one is getting home loans and in fact people are being foreclosed on. Finally, Nebraska has a relatively low unemployment rate because it has relatively few people to employ.

[Maru Kitteh]

129. You are so confused. You said unemployment in Nebraska was high, then you said it was low.

Then you said "Finally, Nebraska has a relatively low unemployment rate because it has relatively few people to employ. "

The poverty of that logic is truly vast, but let's just go around all that and point out how silly it is by reminding you that under your theory every small town in the world should be a haven of employment security while every city of size should be like 1931 without the starched collars.

Instead, small towns all over the U.S. are infamously depressed and a surprising number of large bergs enjoy below-average unemployment numbers like:

Charlottesville, VA 5.2%
Amarillo, TX 5.3%
Ithica, NY 5.3%
Burlington, VT 5.5%
Rochester, NH 6.5%
Baton-Rouge, LA 6.9%
Oklahoma City, OK 6.0%
Washington DC 6.2%

http://www.bls.gov/

[c-ville rook]

153. I don't know about all the other locations...

... actually they are all a lot larger.

However, Charlottesville is a medium size city of 35,000 at best -- although I'd say small as it has thought of reverting to town status more than once. The reason that number is so low is that the largest part of the population lives outside the city limits in surrounding counties and in many of those areas let's say the numbers are a bit higher. However, all total we are still much lower than the national average as we are hovering in the 6% -7% of the workforce. Just for a bit of context that is almost double what it was in 2008.

Of the others I have counted at least 3 state or federal government centers. And the areas immediately around DC like Charlottesville are suffering from more unemployment than DC itself.

[Maru Kitteh]

177. All are in reasonably sized metro areas or high population areas. The point stands.

Saying "you don't have any unemployment because there's nobody to employ" was a really dumb thing for the other poster to say and demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the concept of a percentage of a whole. The fail was compounded doubly when they tried to pair it with "your houses are so cheap because your unemployment is so high."

[juno jones]

248. But you have to live in Amarillo or OK City.

How 'bout these guys?

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/04/texas-taliban/




They probably live up here too, but they don't feel quite so bold about threatening us with it.

PS: I spent 6 months in Amarillo once. It was no treat for a poor worker.

[a la izquierda]

168. Houses are cheap in Oklahoma too...

even in the cities. You can buy a cute 3 BR house in Norman (where the university is) for 100K. To me (who grew up in NJ and moved here from SoCal), that's cheap.
There are lots of jobs. To be frank, my husband has been hemming and hawing about quitting his job for months and he's had backup opportunities. He doesn't even have a college degree.
There are benefits to living out here. Housing is cheap and utilities are affordable. The economic problems are coming home to roost, but not nearly as badly as they did in most places.

[axollot]

201. What sort of work are we talking about? I'd love to get out of FL but

the places I am familiar with outside of it are doing just as hard a time if not more so. Although not always in all ways.
I have also found that in many rural areas people have been finding employment quickly. My son is a CNA which is like a little tech schooling above a GED. He got a yr contract w/benefits within 2wks while we were visiting my mother who now lives in Poplarville MS. He mentioned that for his position he could find several jobs and other offers if he lost this one. Living with my parents he is doing OK for a single man of 20 but I'd hate to see him live on his own for that amount let alone have a family.

Cheers
Sandy

[a la izquierda]

251. My husband works in dog daycare.

It's not difficult, but you must love doing it (obviously). He's one of those people who was totally born to work with animals.

[axollot]

255. You know I remember reading one of your posts about him doing dog walking.

You were informing someone how they could get started. My s.o. tells me I was born to work with animals. At any given moment I have our 3 around me whether inside or outside. Other peoples animals love me too - it's weird sometimes.
I have 2 cats and 1 dog. They act like a pack - if one catches something (vacant house next door had rat infestation!! OMG) they will share it. Strangest thing I've seen. One of my cats plays ball like our dog does, and since she was raised around a dog, she even wags her tail like him. If I wasnt so broken I could probably pack neighbourhood dogs for dog walking purposes. S.O. on the other hand, he doesnt have the touch!

Thanks for responding.

Cheers
Sandy

[a la izquierda]

257. No problem. I have less of the touch than my husband...

but I'm the worlds biggest weenie when it comes to stray animals (which is why we hav three stray spoiled brats lounging around my house at the moment-can't do cats, though. I'm allergic). When my mom first met my DH she nicknamed him St. Francis, because he was about the only person alive who could get my dog to stop barking and be calm. That dog lived as long as he did because of DH. Our vet has been chomping at the bit to get him to work at their office; we'll see if he does or not.
The one thing DH couldn't do is work at a kill shelter. It literally gave him nightmares and changed his personality. Humanity makes him sick partly because of that (also partly because he married a leftist). We're the humorless animal rights vegetarian types that most people complain about, especially in Oklahoma ;)

[axollot]

258. S.O. was never raised with animals. Cats were especially hated by his-

family for some reason. But my side of the family as well as the kids have "the touch" so much so that S.O. calls it "The DR Doolittle gene". We are blue-collar leftists stuck in hard right Christian Conservatives FL - hubby works with guys that have never had any other job but the great paying union factory job and they spew RW rubbish at him all the time. He has a great way of getting them to understand the issues tho. Unlike me, I just want to bash em over the head!
Cheers
Sandy

[JDPriestly]

241. If you buy a house for $100,000 and put a $10,000 down on it, then

get a 30 year loan at 5.5%, your monthly payment is $511.01 plus property taxes, maintenance and insurance -- which soon makes it at least $1,000 per month. On top of that, you have to pay water and heat. So, even a house worth $100,000 is not affordable on $10 per hour if you are only working an average of 35 hours per week (which is what it amounts to if you have to take an occasional holiday or sick day).

[a la izquierda]

250. I can assure you...

no one I know pays nearly that in mortgage/insurance/utilities. I mean, we're talking grad student salary here, roughly $16K/9 months (meaning you spread that over 12 months).
You can't do it alone, but two grad students can, if they're married. My husband makes $10/hour and we could afford a house if we want to (I'm a grad student). We don't want to have to sell when we inevitably have to move. But property taxes and insurance are very cheap here.
If you haven't lived in a place like Oklahoma, you don't realize that everything else is cheap as well.

[JDPriestly]

240. An extended family that included a grandparent could have a sufficient down payment

if they pooled their resources. Let's say the grandparent had sold a property because the taxes were too high and the maintenance too expensive. That grandparent might have the cash for a downpayment. But think how rare that situation is.

[OmahaBlueDog]

127. I could probably find a hundred apartments for 500-700

..or I could find a bunch of apartments that will take Section 8. Finding an apartment on the open market for under $500 is tough, even in a place like Kearney or Grand Island.

That said, your point is taken. Nebraska didn't experience the the full benefit of the housing boom, and it isn't experiiencing the full brunt of the bust. It's not peaches and cream, but most businesses I've spoken with weathered last year, and are hoping for better things this year. Corn prices aren't as high as they were two years ago, but they are OK. The cattle business is good, but I wouldn't want to be a swine farmer. Prices are low, and one of the regions biggest plants is about to close (John Morrell in Sioux City).

[Powdered Toast Man]

132. 1998

In 1998 in a rural area I paid $225 for rent. Granted I got a great deal, but my roommate bailed on the lease so the landlord dropped it from $325 to $225.

[Maru Kitteh]

135. Yup. I paid $170 that same year. Wasn't the Taj, but it was clean and decent.

[Maru Kitteh]

133. 1 BR. $390, 1&2 BR 380, 1 BR $375, 2BR $400, 2BR $410

All from today's Kearney Daily Hub.

[OmahaBlueDog]

198. OK, I'll stand corrected

..and I'll even go so far as to add that Kearney isn't "rural"...it's a very livable small-medium sized town with most ammenities that reasonable people would want.

I'll add even more... while I would always urge anyone to do the research and not take my word for it -- there are homes in very livable neighborhoods in Omaha and Lincoln for under $150,000 -- even under $100,000 if you look. The job market isn't booming, but it is stable. I moved here from Florida. We sold in 2006, as the housing market was starting to slide. We left a market where 4 bedroom homes built in the late 70s sold for around $350,000, and bought a bigger home, also built in the late 70s, for around $165,000.

[JDPriestly]

243. Thanks for posting this information, Oklahomans.

Oklahoma would benefit from the influx of additional liberal DUer voters. Sounds great. If I were looking for a place to move to, maybe a place to retire to, I would consider Oklahoma.

[OmahaBlueDog]

252. Not knowing if you are serious or not...

I know someone who is selling a home in a small rural town in Oklahoma. It will likely sell in the mid -100s. It is (IIRC) a 3 BR. It needs updating, but the home is set in what was once a state park. Fully stocked large pond...lots of open space...trees.. and yes, lots of wingers for neighbors.

[Nikki Stone1]

221. .

.

[awoke_in_2003]

230. It is easy to have low unemployment...

when nobody lives there.

[Powdered Toast Man]

131. That's a mortgage; not rent.

Big difference.

[intheflow]

178. That's 'cause I replying to a post about mortgages. n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

150. Bullshit? How rude. Not every state is like MA.

Yes, things are more expensive on the East coast. Get around a little. You may be in rural MA but noplace in MA is as rural as, say, rural GA, where I never paid more than $510/mo in three different locations, including one apt. with cable included, full kitchen w/dishwasher, and a sun room. Hell, I paid $450/mo in Toledo for a 2BR apt.

Prices vary from place to place depending on demand, and often seem to be whimsically arbitrary. But in general, as you move in from the coasts, prices drop pretty fast.

[intheflow]

179. Fine. I now rent in Colorado.

I rent from a friend who can't sell her condo. Her mortgage on this tiny 1br is $1000/mo. She's actually subsidizing me to live here; I pay $800.

Before this I lived in Mississippi. I paid $1000/mo. to rent a 2br house. So please don't tell me what it's like in the rest of the country. I've lived all over.

[Maru Kitteh]

181. So because you live in your over-extended friend's condo you know the whole country?

From today's Sterling, CO classified ads:


2BR APT w/ stove fridge & w/d hook up. Heat &.

0.00 miles
Local
$450.00 Text Ad



1BR APTin Sterling: most utilities included. $390.

40.90 miles
Local
$390.00 Text Ad



NEWLY REMODELED: 2br 2ba in Sterling. $450/mo. Ar.

0.00 miles
Local
$450.00 Text Ad

[intheflow]

184. Sterling, CO is the middle of nowhere.

Out on the plains. population 11,000, Two hours from the nearest "urban" area of Fort Collins, three and a half hours from Denver. Hell, you can't even see the Rockies from Sterling. Not everyone can afford to live in rural America, the jobs just aren't there.

And yes, you can find some cheap rents in Denver, but they're not in places you'd want to live.

And: because you live in Bumfuck, Michigan YOU know the whole country? Please get off the high horse, MK. You are obviously living either in Lalaland or a very privileged life that you defend high rents or think everyone can afford to live in rural areas.

[dashrif]

192. I

hope you stuck your pinky finger out real far as you hit the a in urban

[intheflow]

232. Wow, there's a well-reasoned response.

:eyes:

[liberalhistorian]

189. Actually, that's mostly correct in rural areas.

I've lived in a variety of rural areas in the west these past five years, and have never paid more than $450 month in rent. Hubby and I pay less than that, now. That's rent, though, not mortgage, which is a totally different thing. You're right, most people making ten bucks an hour aren't gonna get a mortgage. But that actually might be a good thing, because there's a lot more expense involved in home ownership than just a mortgage. There's home insurance premiums, property taxes, maintenance and upkeep, etc., etc. Most people making that little of an hourly wage couldn't afford that.

Now, I'm sure it also depends on what state you're in as well. A rural area in the east or west coast is likely to have far higher rents than rural areas in the west or southwest. I don't know about the south, so I'll leave that up to someone who does. And in urban areas-forget it, you're lucky to find a postage-stamp-sized apt. for less than $1,500 a month.

[LucifersHeretic]

254. The underemployed (part-time, Temp, low wage)

Not even talking about those who are black market entrepreneurs. A tale of two societies could be written as a latter-day sequel to 'A tale of two cities'.

[Luciferous]

83. Bullshit. I live in a rural area and pay 600 a month. Renting a house

here is 850 and up.

[arcadian]

88. Bullshit, in a rural area if you are paying $500 a month you are living in a dump.

Or a two room shoebox.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

98. It depends what area of the country you're talking about

I've seen some pretty good trailers for rent for $300-$400 in rural areas where I live. Trailers aren't the greatest houses to have, but I've lived in them before because that's what I could afford.

[SoCalDem]

109. If you can find one outside a "park" and can rent it, they can be a good option

but out here the land under them costs a LOT, and buying threm is out of the question for many people..

The space rent at parks (here in S Cal) is ridiculous..and they don;t allow people to even sublet or to rent out their own mobiles.. If something happens to them, they have to keep paying the space rent, and sell the trailer..or forfeit it.. That's why so many "for sale mobiles" out here are forfeitures...owned by the parks, since it costs a LOT to move them out..:(

[Maru Kitteh]

180. But much of the country is decidedly not southern California

The original point in this subthread was that decent housing can be found for less than $500 in many other parts of the country. It's true.

[axollot]

208. In the South most of them are out of the "park". From FL through TX

and all points between. I know they are harder on where you can put trailers up north. Rented 1 once. Would have to be spectacular land for me to buy one as they lose value just as a car does. They are built much better today tho and can last as long, if not longer than the 30yr mortgage if you take very, very good care of it. If one thing starts to go, it all comes down from what I've seen.

Cheers
Sandy

[axollot]

211. I forgot to add that SoCali is another world when it comes to real-estate.

I lived there from 3rd grade - 12th. Then came back to visit often over the next 20yrs. Each visit back made me actually hate the place more - but it is hard to compete with Australia. Still, wouldnt live there and we currently live in North East Florida. All of the prices are very out of whack through out the west coast. Although it's beautiful, beaches are wonderful, people often more so! There is a pretend veneer of being laid back than anyone actually having the time to, it takes a lot to compete there, we were from San Diego County. We were not rich but the home I grew up in sold for half million. You wouldnt pay more than 120g for it in a nice, tidy neighbourhood walking distance from the school here in FL. So-Cali's traffic alone would drive me insane. ;) I also would have a hard time justifying all the driving etc it takes to survive there vs quality of life spent with my family.
Cheers
Sandy

[EvolveOrConvolve]

249. Yea, land is pretty cheap here

I could buy a couple of acres for $10,000 way out in the sticks and plop a cheap trailer down on it. It's a lot less expensive here to move trailers because there is less regulation. In fact, what regulation we have isn't really enforced - I've seen Mexican farm workers moving a trailer with a giant piece of farm equipment. Just driving down the rural road at 5 MPH towing the trailer to its new location. In So. Cal, I can't imagine getting away with that.

Trailers are often a better option than some of the old homes you find on rural land around here. They're easier and cheaper to mend than a house built in the 40's or 50's that has bad wiring, bad plumbing, a dangerous heating system, decrepit chimneys and very little insulation. Some of those old homes even have lead paint on the walls and asbestos in the ceiling.

[Regret My New Name]

112. I don't know if 'very high' is all that accurate...

You might be able to find something cheaper, but not a whole lot cheaper... Using 'very high' with $500, makes it sound likr $200/mo housing is common.

[totodeinhere]

205. Maybe, but most people live in urban areas. n/.t

[malakai2]

256. Some rural areas

Try finding ANY house or apartment in Montana, North Dakota, northwest South Dakota, or northeast Wyoming.

[Yavin4]

157. For Those In Cheap Rent Rural Areas...

What you save in rent, you more than pay for in gas. There is no public transportation for rural areas, so you will need a car and drive a lot.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

169. I'll second that comment

gas and grocery prices may be jacked up too, as they are here. One guy has the only diesel pump in town and he charges 25 cents more/gal than the most expensive place in the city, where I go to work. Reg. gas is not as outrageous, but it's at the highest end of the norm in this area.

[totodeinhere]

206. Plus good paying jobs are usually harder to find in those areas. n/t

[newtothegame]

166. I've never understood why some of our poorest citizens live in the most expensive places to live.

You've got these college graduates with degrees in literature and cultural studies working for $7 an hour at an independent coffee shop, living in a $1000 a month apartment in NYC, or Chicago, or Seattle, etc. It's no wonder they can't afford anything.

And these are the lucky ones! At least they have college degrees. Racial minorities, who are disproportionately poor, live in very high concentrations in the cities, which is always expensive. This makes no sense!

And the "that's where the jobs are" thing doesn't really hold weight. I live in the Midwest, and there are just as many jobs if you move to Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and live for about half the price. We have the Wal-Mart's, the independent coffee shops, and all the other jobs the working poor are working at in the large cities.

Makes about as much sense as the homeless guys I use to see living in Iowa City during -20 degree winters. You can make $100+ panhandling a day, but you don't spend $60 to catch the Greyhound down to Miami?

[intheflow]

194. Many can't afford to move.

Never mind needing first/last/security deposit, just the cost of renting a truck, paying for the gas, and lodging on the way to your new locale is cost-prohibitive.

Then, too, many don't want to leave their families and friends and the place where they grew up.

[totodeinhere]

207. There is a lot of rural poverty around too, especially in the rural South. n/t

[nonconformist]

48. Exactly.

[cornermouse]

144. Gas? $100 a month

Electricity? $175 - $325 a month depending on the time of year.
Phone, cable, internet? $140 a month.

I don't know where you get your figures from but this state is supposed to be cheap to live in and utilities are well above what you're suggesting.

[Echo In Light]

147. ... and that's an understatement

[sasquuatch55]

226. Very, very conservative!

na

[awoke_in_2003]

228. my gas bill last month...

for a 1900 sf house in Fort Worth- $110!!!

[gravity]

2. If it is a single person, then you can swap daycare for healthcare

[nonconformist]

45. What about food?

[SoCalDem]

50. food?

[Xithras]

55. Well, when you collapse in a starving heap, your insurance will pay the hospital to feed you!

Of course, they'll want their $2500 deductible first...

[bobbolink]

220. Many people are committing faux crimes to get 3 hots and a cot.

"Whadda country!"

[rapturedbyrobots]

84. unless you're a single parent. n/t

[rcrush]

5. that most $10 hr people do even get the opportunity to work 35 hrs a week.."

Thats so true. I used to do hiring for movie theateres and such where they pay minimum wage. WAY Less than $10 an hour but 35 hours a week was a GOOD week most of the time. You dont see that kind of business unless its a holiday or something.

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. $500 rent? Not likely! In LA, maybe $800 to rent a room

[Powdered Toast Man]

134. Yes, but in MI suburbs

for $500 a month you can get 1000 square feet and a pool. It all depends on where you live.

[Wednesdays]

160. Which MI suburbs?

I'm from a Michigan suburb, and no way could you get anything for $500 like you described.

[SOS]

170. $500 rent? Here in NYC that is a comical figure

Double that for a studio in Queens.
It goes up from there.

The last time I saw a $500 rent was in 1988.

[ProSense]

7. Child care?

A person with at that income level with a child would qualify for Medicaid.

[EFerrari]

10. You've never been on Medicaid, have you?

[ProSense]

13. Fortunately, when

I made $8 per hour, my employer provided health benefits.


Still, what does that have to do with the point?

[EFerrari]

15. Then you have been fortunate.

I watched my grandmother struggle to breathe because Medicaid wouldn't approve an oxygen tank.

She didn't have a job as many people don't have one today. In fact, when I had a CWA job as a telephone operator, I got insurance after my probationary period that my family could never afford to use. I could tell people we were insured though, for all the good that did my two sons under five. We were insured, all right.

[ProSense]

36. Do you actually think because someone hasn't been on Medicaid

their family members haven't and they've never seen people suffer tragedy at the hands of the system.

That is the thing that clouds this debate: people who believe their suffering is worse than everyone elses.

There are millions of people who support reform, including those who have suffered unconscionable tragedy at the hands of insurance companies.

[Greyhound]

102. No, she thinks someone that has never been on Medicaid has no

fucking idea what the hell they're talking about.

You people seem to believe that because someone might qualify for one of these "generous" programs that all they have to do is fill out some forms and wait for the checks to start rolling in.

At least with the republiks you fully expect that they are going to fuck you over, only Democrats do the same thing and then demand that you thank them for it.

[SoCalDem]

104. and people who are obviously disabled, have to spend years & have to hire

lawyers to try and get disability..:(

[ChiciB1]

108. My Niece Who Has MS Had To Hire A Lawyer & It Took At Least Two

and a half years! It was VERY obvious she had it, but she had to jump through many hoops! Very sad, her parents actually ended up helping out with the lawyer. But not only that, the trips back and forth to doctors, lawyers etc., sapped her energy!

She has two children and times are VERY tough, even though she FINALLY GOT IT! She's young and already walking with a cane!!!

[SoCalDem]

110. My friend's brother was already IN a care facility due to a brain injury

in a COMA from a hit & run (he was on a bicycle)..and it took MONTHS to get his approved

[ChiciB1]

111. Really Sad, Huh? There's Those Wabbits Again! You Changed The Look!

Back to disability though. WHY when it's OBVIOUS and doctor's attest to it, and tests actually SHOW the illness does it take so long?? And WHY should one HAVE to hire a lawyer just to get a case heard??

I realize there IS abuse when someone knows the right doctor, and knows certain ways, but there are probably MORE cases where the illness is right in front of their face!!

My niece needs help with her children now, they're young but have learned early what "health care for Mommy" is! My sister helps out when my niece is down, but as I said it's difficult. She is married, but her husband needs to work long hours as it is.

And I know there are many in the very same boat, just wonder if our people in D.C. ever really think very hard about this stuff!

[Greyhound]

223. Ironically, the fraudulent cases are much easier to get through. They've been set up

from the beginning to fit the myriad requirements, so everything from injury to diagnosis to treatment fits the paperwork perfectly, and when they go to court (everybody is forced into court, they save millions just making people give up) the lawyers have everything they need to guarantee a positive judgment.

[Raineyb]

125. Quite frankly that's a safe assumption on ANY topic by that poster.

But there'll be a link that doesn't say shit included to make it look as though they do.

[bobbolink]

217. "Democrats do the same thing and then demand that you thank them for it."

:applause:

[EFerrari]

120. You are one terrible mind reader. n/t

[daleanime]

145. And their still eager....

to leave their fate to insurance companies?

[Solly Mack]

115. Yep. People using Medicaid get denied for things they need all the time.

And that's need...not want/not would be nice to have....but need - to live.

When you're denied health services you need to live, you're being told just how little you matter....and that's just not right.

[bobbolink]

218. And that includes things that would PREVENT Costlier treatment later on!

BEsides the human suffering, we are paying MORE because of these stoooopid policies!

BUt, we're afraid to talk about this part, because it actually strenthens the RW talking points that government in control can screw things up. :( x(

[Jamastiene]

26. Obviously not.

Most of these people throwing around the "you would qualify for Medicaid" meme have never even read who actually qualifies for it and how strict it really is. They are just throwing it out there in a flagrant attempt to deflect. It's outright lies in some cases when they claim such and such would qualify for Medicaid. No matter how many times you point out to them that it's not true, they'll swear by it, even though the U.S. government even disagrees with their assessment.

Medicaid is not the poor person's lotto like they all claim it is. I'm sick of hearing that meme.

They have obviously never been in a situation where they had to even look into applying for Medicaid. If so, they would know that door is closed to the majority of poor people.

[EFerrari]

29. And they would know that most of those programs are only good on paper.

[SoCalDem]

34. there are more disqualifiers than qualifiers, and many don;t even bother

to try because it's so time-consuming and often ends with a turn-down.. Many just beg & borrow from friends & family instead:(

[ProSense]

40. Bogus

"Most of these people throwing around the "you would qualify for Medicaid" meme have never even read who actually qualifies for it and how strict it really is."

Do the people close to me who are on Medicaid count?

A lot of people here have never been on Medicare either, doesn't stop them for talking about its benefits.

[Jamastiene]

49. Your state is not the only state in the country.

Who may qualify in your area, would not qualify in other states. That is just the basic fact that you seem to be neglecting to acknowledge. Your catchall claims are what is bogus.

[ProSense]

59. Neither is your state, but you continue to draw conclusions about reform based

on the current system, which is bogus.

[Jamastiene]

64. The current system IS the system.

Each state is different and will remain different even after this health insurance mandate is enacted. You should really pay closer attention before making claims that poor people can just get Medicaid like that. It's false hope to tell people that when it may or may not be true in their circumstances.

[uppityperson]

57. Medicaid pays for child care? eom

[Jamastiene]

65. I wish the world really worked like it does in their fantasy version of it. n/t

[uppityperson]

67. Seriously. Medicaid is for health care, not child care. eom

[intheflow]

96. I know!

I read the most bizarre posts on DU these days!!


:hi:

[uppityperson]

105. Maybe that poster is confused as to what "child care" means?

hiya!

[intheflow]

117. You are in a generous mood this evening.

:)

[nonconformist]

141. I think their point was that at that income level with a child, they would qualify for Medicaid

And, therefore, wouldn't need to pay for healthcare in the first place.

Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The child would probably be covered, but I know in my state your income needs to be basically nil for an adult, even a parent, to get coverage. A few years ago my husband made $12/hr as the sole breadwinner for awhile, and with a family of four only the children were covered.

[uppityperson]

190. They may, but it doesn't explain "Child care?" bit.

[LeftyMom]

138. Childcare means babysitting, genius.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

244. Medicaid is health care coverage which varies by state. It has nothing to do with child care/daycare

You seem be confused.

[Initech]

8. I make just a little over $10 an hour, it fucking sucks.

[Liberal_in_LA]

11. :-( n/t

[SoCalDem]

16. are my paycheck numbers fairly accurate?

I got them from a friend who made $10 an hour.

[Initech]

19. Somewhat.

Replace "rent" (which I cannot, and probably will never be able to afford - :grr: ) with "car payment" and it's pretty accurate. Also replace "child care" (no kids) with "health insurance".

[SoCalDem]

21. I meant the withholding amounts

but I know what you mean.. my friend struggles mightily, and she makes almost $15 an hour:(

[Initech]

25. They're pretty accurate for CA. I haven't checked my pay stubs for a while.

[Liberal_in_LA]

9. $150 car payment? ???? $100 bus pass would be more likely.

[harmonicon]

136. the last minimum wage job I had I couldn't have gotten to on a bus

I would imagine in fact that most places in the US don't even have a useable bus service for commuters.

[Powdered Toast Man]

137. It depends on where you are at.

Not everywhere has buses like that.

[jeff47]

233. Depends where you live.

In this city, the buses only run for 6 hours a day, centered around mid-day. They won't work for commuting.

[Bluebear]

12. Sorry, the Insurance Companies need premiums from EVERYBODY.

[kestrel91316]

14. Where do people live that rent is only $500 a month, lol?

I pay $1150 for a 1-BR, plus utilities that I cannot get below $200 no matter how hard I try. That barely leaves anything for food, and thank god I no longer have car expense. The bus runs me $30-40, and that's with LOTS of walking. No insurance of any kind anymore.

If not for gift cards at Christmas and my birthday, I wouldn't have anything for clothes these days. The past 3 years have NOT been kind to me or my business. "Getting by" is almost impossible.

[tekisui]

17. A closet.

[SoCalDem]

18. I know.. I deliberately made the rent & child care low, so people would compare

their own expenses & see how futile it all is:(

[NNN0LHI]

27. You can find small farmhouses around here for that

They are old though. Turn of the century stuff. The kind of places you can't keep a match lit in on a drafty day. They weren't worried about fuel efficiency back then. You basically end up paying a little rent to be the caretaker of the house and an adjoining pole barn or two and it is the renters job to keep an eye on the farmers tractors when he isn't around.

Don

[intheflow]

32. But of course your utility bills go up exponentially.

Not to mention, there probably aren't a lot of jobs in your area if you can rent a whole house for $500.

[NNN0LHI]

43. Unemployment is shitty around here right now but these are usually available all the time

And you are right about the utilities. Most use LP and I know that can eat you up with an uninsulated old house like these are.

Don

[Kaleva]

31. One can buy a really nice house where I live for $500.00 a month payments.

[intheflow]

35. Assuming you have good credit and can get a loan.

And even then, it'd be hard to find a mortgage for that around any of the coasts or major interior cities. (Possible exception would be the Gulf Coast, but then the flood insurance costs will kill you.)

[SoCalDem]

39. and you can re-hab a house with no money or can find a bank willing to loan

Around here, houses pretend to be "low cost", but their low price is just a come-on for the vultures-with-cash speculators who participate in bidding wars that knock many first-time buyers out of the game before they even get in..

[kestrel91316]

52. Must be nice. Here you still need $80-100k down payment plus $3000+ in payments

(per month), plus property taxes and insurance. And that will get you a serious fixer-upper, or a pathetic condo, neither of them in good neighborhoods. Except nobody is writing mortgages anymore.

[tekisui]

58. Sheeeeeit. You must live in fantasy land.

What is the total cost of the house? What down payment is required?

Good credit is required. And, I am not sure a $10 an hour job would secure a loan.

[bergie321]

73. I just got a decent 2BR condo

In Phoenix and pay less than $500 for mortgage/insurance/hoa. Rented a 1BR apartment before that for $600 per month.

[NickB79]

152. Your profile says you're from Michigan. That explains it all

When you're selling a house in a state with unemployment in some areas that rivals the Great Depression, you can't ask much for them.

[Yavin4]

158. And You Pay A Lot More In Gas

I am assuming that there is no public transportation around you.

[tammywammy]

54. My last apartment was $515/month

Good area, nice 1 bedroom/1 bath with a sunroom instead of a balcony, around 700 square feet. I moved out summer of 2007, when I bought my house.

[SoCalDem]

60. Texas has some pretty cheap places to live

Friends of ours retired there because of the cheap prices, but they don't particularly like a LOT of the people there..

[Luciferous]

86. I live in northern Illinois, have a 3 bedroom apartment, and pay 600 a month.

It's also a pretty decent apartment.

[raccoon]

154. If you were to move into my apartment complex today, you could rent a one-bedroom for $505.

This is in upstate SC. Nice enough complex, safe. But most apartments here that you'd see in one of those glossy apartment magazines at the grocery store, would cost more.

[The Revolution]

197. I pay less than that

My 1 BR apartment is $400 a month, and that includes everything but electricity, which is usually around $75.

[leftstreet]

20. Why does that greedy worker need heat, water and electric?

Think about the poor rich people!

:cry:

[datasuspect]

42. yeah, that's what i was thinking!

[LibDemAlways]

139. And food. Who told him he could eat? And why the hell does he

need a roof over his head? Aren't there lots of nice freeway underpasses he can occupy?

Shouldn't he be doing his patriotic duty and spending that money on private health insurance instead? How is the CEO of Cigna going to make his yacht payment this month without that worker's premium? Honest to God, these peons are so ungrateful it's sickening.

[muffin1]

22. WOW!!

Now I have something to look forward to! I make $7.50 an hour.

:-(

[hobbit709]

23. At that level, you're not paying rent

Because all you can afford is a cardboard box under the overpass.

[bondwooley]

209. That, or you have to be living with your parents....

... who are, hopefully, making more than minimum wage - which puts the whole family in the cardboard box under the overpass.

[DCBob]

24. Yeah those numbers dont look good for sure.

Of course, no one would want to be forced to pay high health care premiums in that situation. I think I would rather take my chances on not gettng seriously ill until I could find decent employment.

[SoCalDem]

30. *** Add a dad to the mix (also making $10 an hour)

Add a dad to the mix (also making $10 an hour)

and adjust the other bills to a more realistic amount

new total 2165.76

-900 more realistic rent for a 2 bedroom place
-240 gasoline
-50 phone
-75 electric
-50 gas
-30 water


-300 car payment for 2 cars..or for one car & insurance. or other combination of car expenses

-300 more realistic day care

220.76 "left" over to feed 3 people, and to offset any emergency that may come along.

[Uncle Joe]

37. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, SoCalDem

[Starry Messenger]

38. Thank you. I remember those days vividly.

I might be going back to it too unless I hear some good news soon. There's no fucking wiggle room there in those numbers.

[Kaleva]

41. I bought a home in 2000 for $24,000.00

My monthly payments which included escrow for taxes and insurance was $265.00. My mortgage, car payment, food, phone, tv, gas, and electric ran me about $800.00 a month.

[SoCalDem]

44. You are indeed, one of the lucky ones who found a good deal

and were in a position to grab it..congrats :thumbsup:

[tekisui]

61. You are the exception. There is no such thing as a

$24,000 home anywhere near where I live. And, there wasn't one in 2000, either.

[SoCalDem]

63. Even in CA you CAN find a $24K "home", but

it's a mobile, parked in a mobile home enclave..and the CHEAPEST monthly space rent around here is $595.00 a MONTH..

I was seriously thinking of buying a very nice double-wide for my best friend, but she could not afford to pay us back @ $103.00 a month + $60 a month for insurance + the $595.00 + utilities ..and these places do not allow the mobiles to be rented, in case she had to move out (if she had lost her job).. so we did not do the deal, and she "borrows" from me when she's in a bind..

[haele]

215. We were thinking the same thing, asking one of the sets of 'rents to pay for a nice double-wide

for around $30K and we would move in for them, pay the lot rental of $700 + utilities and kick back $250 a month to pay them back (our credit sucks big time) on a "rent to own" basis until it got down to the "well, that's your inheritance" level. The savings alone would give us $500 or so a month to put into savings once our outstanding bills were paid. Even if I lost my job, his disability would easily pay the lot rental and we could survive on a much reduced wage if we needed to until I hit 60 and started getting military retirement, so we weren't going to be looking at moving.

But even with a family member buying the double-wide for us to live in, counted as a sub-lease - even if it was a father buying it for his disabled son and family to live in - and none of the mobile home parks would allow that. Unlike back in Alabama where his family is from, where a mobile home in a halfway decent park could easily be bought for anyone living with you (like an adult child or sibling "returning to the nest" with family in tow) that you don't want to put up in your home.

So we get back to reason we can't fix our credit and savings and buy a mobile home in a park in California reason #1 - our credit sucks, and because of that, none of the mobile home parks would even let us look at a cheap-o-fixer-upper-gotta-sell-NOW!-single-wide even if we could buy it outright and the lot rental would be half what we pay now for rent on our house.

Haele

[SoCalDem]

224. The "parks" out here know that the LAND is what's valuable

so in order to keep them from selling out, they charge ridiculously high "space rent"..and many older folks have to throw in the towel & walk away from their homes when one of them passes away or gets sick:(..or the "coach" needs a major overhaul... One park out here had 15 "park-owned" mobiles for sale...@$675.00 a month "rent" for the space it sits on..:grr:

At that price, a single person can find a "share-house" roommate & a REAL house... and be able to move when they like, and not have to put up with the BS "rules" of those "parks"..

[Mari333]

47. to make 10 dollars an hour here in my small town is a high paying job

the going rate here is min. wage. and there are no jobs that pay more. not in the service sector.

there are not any jobs anyway. people are moving in with relatives.

I am lucky I will get SS in 1 1/2 yrs. but I live on 900 a month now and eat cheap and live cheap.

I would love to move to SF or ann arbor , but there is no way I could afford the Cost of living there.

The only reason I even have a retirement savings is money I got from my late husband and late son.

that is no way to get money, you do not want to pay that price.

I only have catastrophic care, so I cannot go see a doctor or have exams, it is out of pocket.
My deductible is 10,000. I have no other health insurance, so I keep my fingers crossed.

In 6 yrs I will be eligible for Medicaire. all I can do is hope I do not get sick now.

I have lived on less than 10 dollars an hour, but cannot imagine doing it with kids.


I think a lot of people just do not get it, especially Congress.

[SoCalDem]

51. I'm coming up on 61, and my husband is keeping his job until I hit 65

he wants to retire, and we could afford it, BUT then I would have no insurance, so he has to keep working.. Luckily he loves his job and it pays very well..

[slipslidingaway]

53. You have nothing budgeted for food??? n/t

[SoCalDem]

56. NOPE.. why?

because the "budget" is not even a true budget if there's not any conceivable way to pay for everything..

[slipslidingaway]

70. Who needs food :( n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

66. Medicare for all?

How could Suzie-ten-bucks-an-hour afford to buy into Medicare then?

[SoCalDem]

68. If we did health care like a civilized country, we would have a "macro"

rather than a "micro" approach.. There would BE no "Medicare, VA, Medicaid".... there would be a TAX paid by everyone (working people) and from that pool of money, the health care for EVERYONE would be paid by the government.

As long as we segment it, and put each person.group under a "worthiness-microscope", and make them jump through flaming hoops-of-doom, we will never approach a fair and equitable medical coverage plan..

My wish for you younger folks, is that when we Boomers have departed, you will force the government to offer a real benefit of citizenship to you all..and quit making you attack each other, group by group:)

[nannah]

78. you are right on!!!

and i love your easter card. rofl

[elocs]

69. I am fortunate that right now I am able to live on less than $800 a month.

It's just me and my living expenses are very low. Because of my low income I qualify for BadgerCare Plus healthcare, so that is covered and I get enough foodstamps to see me through the entire month. I do make payments on what was a new car 3 years ago and the insurance to go along with it.

Since I am getting by working less than 20 hours a week I wouldn't want a $10 an hour job working 35 hours a week. Right now I am just coasting until retirement and feel lucky that it is just me and my needs are few. I realize that most cannot live on what I make.

[RB TexLa]

71. Daycare is included as if everyone has made that lifestyle choice?

[SoCalDem]

76. The "model" was for a mom with one kid..

your mileage may vary :rofl:

[RB TexLa]

77. But you've included a lifestyle choice for that model.

[Child_Of_Isis]

72. I want to go where gas is 15.00 a month

and electric is 30.00. I can't run my electric toothbrush on that. Last month's average electric & gas was (combined) around 270.00. I have a small house...and a small family.

[starroute]

74. You're off on the taxes

According to the 2009 tax tables, a single person making $18,200 a year and taking the standard deduction of $5,700 and the exemption of $3650 would owe $914 in federal taxes -- or $18 a week.

A single mother with one child would have a standard deduction of $8350 and an exemption of $7300 and would owe $448 in taxes or $9 a week -- before taking into account the Earned Income Credit (which looks like it would amount to over $2000, thus canceling out the FICA) or the child care credit.

The state tax figure also seems high, as least compared to what it is here in Pennsylvania.

I'll grant that $10 an hour is not a living wage -- but if you want your figures to be taken seriously, you can't be sloppy about the taxes.

[SoCalDem]

79. I took down the withholding off a check of a friend..add back the $79.28

and you have a whopping $82.16 to buy food for two and to try & find some $ for auto insurance..and to fill the gaps of the deliberately conservative "budget"..

Remember too, that many people desperate for a job, just accept whatever the boss withholds from their check, and then eagerly look forward to the refund after they get their w-2...IF they even get the w-2s.

Many young folks I know have to move heaven & earth to get their former employers to send them the damned things....and yes I KNOW there's a LAW..

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. A single parent making $10 per hour doesn't pay fed WH.

And the point of this whole exercise is to demonstrate how unaffordable health insurance is... when for this person in your example, it'd be free.

[starroute]

106. If that's happening then something is very wrong

Bosses don't just get to decide what to withhold. Each employee submits a W-4 and the employer has to plug those withholding figures into their payroll software or service.

And employers don't just have to send W-2's to the employees at the end of the year. They have to submit the withheld money to the federal, state, and local governments (either quarterly, monthly, or with every payroll, depending on the amount owed) and then file copies of all the W-2's with those various governments by the end of January. And the totals all have to come out even.

I know that things can get screwed up. One of my sons worked a few weeks last summer from the college he'd attended and they sent his W-2 here because it was the address they had on file. And when he asked them to change it to his current address, they said they were helpless to do anything about it.

But if employers are deliberately withholding too much and not accounting for it at the end of the year, that is a major violation of federal and state laws, and the people affected should be raising a stink about it.

[SoCalDem]

107. They probably DO account for it, and when the employee files taxes

they do get the extra back, but lots of people are not savvy enough to know their rights, or to even question things.. Remember, when you are a low-paid worker, you are at such a disadvantage..especially when this is likely to be THE ONLY job offer, after months of looking..

My friend had to go to the Labor board once to get a w2 from a job she had for 4 months..The guy closed the business, left town, and never sent them to anyone..

and out here, a LOT of undocumented people have deductions taken, and I'd bet a paycheck that some of those bosses don't bother to even send in any of it.. the workers are "wink-wink-nod-nod" workers and won't dare complain..

[jeff47]

234. Withholding > taxes

The fact that they get a big refund in April doesn't help with the day-to-day expenses.

[jtuck004]

80. K&R - This income group has about 30% unemployment as well n/t

[SoCalDem]

81. and most are lucky to get anything over 20 hrs a week

:(

[Luciferous]

82. 60 for utilities?! My water bill alone is 45 a month!

[Lorien]

90. My electric has never been below $90.00 a month, and I always use CFL bulbs

in this rather small house. Utilities, like food, just keep going up and up.

[New Dawn]

89. K&R - and a ton of people aren't even getting paid $10 per hour.

[waiting for hope]

91. Where in the hell to you live where you can pay only

$50 a week in daycare ..?? For two kids, one only going three days a week and the other was only after school pick up was $177.00 a week, and when my Mom got sick with breast cancer, it went up to $210.00 .. with the youngest clocking in at $130.00. I only ask this because that cost is not realistic.

[SoCalDem]

92. that's my point... even at $10 an hr (apparently the new living wage, according to some)

and using ridiculously LOW estimates, it's all but IMPOSSIBLE to manage.

Someone on this thread insisted that she would not have anything deducted from her check because of her low income, so even if we added that back in, she would still be up against the wall ..

[waiting for hope]

99. Sorry for the knee jerk response, I think

your OP is spot on and I rec'd it .. I'm unemployed right now, and been told that I have to take a job that would equal my unemployment payments .. I had to take my kids out of daycare because after paying daycare, I would have next to nothing .. it's all bullshit, I can't take anything less than what I was making in order to survive and not the 65% I'm getting now.

[G_j]

116. impossible is correct

it's no wonder so many are in deep trouble with debt.

[SoCalDem]

93. oops a dupe

[KG]

94. dang, where are all the usual boot-strappers tonite?

they always had it rougher, raised 10 kids and bought a house on 25 dollars a week. AND LIKED IT! :rofl:

[SoCalDem]

95. and fed 'em all for a month with a lb of bacon & 3 potatoes

:)

[leftstreet]

97. Wait til their employers drop their medical insurance

This place will melt down

[SoCalDem]

103. Yep paying a fine is probably cheaper & easier..and then the employers get to KEEP

all that moolah they stole ("giving" health care instead of wage increases)

[KillCapitalism]

100. Min wage should be at least $30/hr. in the US.

Sounds crazy I know, but at least we'd rebuild the middle class.

$10/hr. is ridiculous, that might go far in China but not here.

[harmonicon]

140. I don't know about $30, but at least twice what it is now.

I would like to see the minimum wage calculated to be a living wage based on location, recalculated every few years. What would do wonders above that though would be to have a first-world healthcare and social welfare system.

[bobbolink]

222. What about people on SSI, are getting $4.21 an hour? Should that be raised?

Its much more than the "middle class" that needs to be rebuilt.

[Solly Mack]

113. Thank you. K&R

[chill_wind]

114. Deserves attention far and wide. Thank you. K & R. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

118. k&r... Of course, the expenses you listed were low-balled, but your point stands.

Rent is often much higher, and most electric bills (in cities) are 10x that, and water bills are higher too.

Food: At my university, the cheapest meal plan (3 meals a day) comes to over $400.00 per month. Eating at home and skipping one meal every day still runs me over $400.00 per month.

If a worker makes 10$ per hour, the best way to survive is to: walk to work/school and not own a car (nor a phone), eat only 1 1/2 meals a day, never use air conditioning, skip bathing every other day, wash clothes only once a month, and spend vacations at the public library. Happy days!

[hfojvt]

119. the tax with-holding is way too high

that works out to $1,820 a year. Current tax liability for a person with that income would only be $506 per year, so I do not believe the with-holding would be that high.

Actually since you added in daycare expenses then one might wonder where the child support payments are, and also the tax liablity would be zero with an earned income credit of $2700, or $225 a month. In Kansas, the state income tax liability for one person with a child would be about $50 at that income level, and state with-holding would reflect that.

[Nikki Stone1]

122. Even if you halve it, it doesn't do much for the bottom line.

You can play with a few dollars here and there, but it's still jack shit. I used to live on a salary like that: $250/wk take home in a major urban area. I lived without heat during cold winters to have enough money for car insurance.

[hfojvt]

126. well it would be $110 a month

but I neglected another biggie too. The fact that there are more than 4 weeks in two months a year. That also adds another $100 a month to the income side.

And there shouldn't be any federal with-holding for a person with a child (in fact they should be able to get advanced EIC payments), and minimal on the state side. In my last bi-weekly paycheck of $593.46 my retirement fund took $23.74, FICA took $26.42, Medicare took $6.18, and the state only took $4.82 and the Federal took nothing. Part of that though was because my insurance costs of $159.80 for medical and $7.55 for dental are not considered taxable income. I don't even pay FICA taxes on those amounts (something that may cost me down the road). Leaving me a whopping $187.47 per week.

[Nikki Stone1]

130. Depends on what tax is actually removed per month

The person will get a refund at the end of the tax year, but will lose the ability to save that money for emergencies, having to use a 22% interest credit card for emergencies.

If you have never lived on that kind of salary, you don't get it. You're lucky.

[glinda]

123. Behold the truth. Love your bunnies.

[OmahaBlueDog]

124. As often as not, that's the income from Job #1. Then you get jobs 2 & 3 (if possible)

...and they pay less.

Strangely, I remember when 20,800 was not a bad income.

[TroubleMan]

128. The electric and daycare are way too low - especially the daycare.

Daycare for my 4 year old is $200 per week. The low end el-cheapo daycares are about $150 per week. I shopped around a lot.

[JoeyT]

142. +1

I love how people pick out one number and insist because they don't pay that much then the whole thing must be off. Yeah, it's way off. All that stuff is way too low. None of that stuff is that cheap for me and I live in a rural area in one of the cheap states.

While I don't have kids, the truly awesome thing about living in such a rural area is that there's only the one daycare center and they cost 600 bucks a month. Plus to get lower rent by living in rural areas you'll more than make up for it in your gasoline and utilities bills. A thousand bucks a month is a fair estimate to keep a roof over your head, but little more.

In addition to food, there's a lot of things people don't consider. Dentist visits. Random stuff in your house breaking and needing to be fixed. Car insurance. Car maintenance. Car repairs. Random yearly fees (Tag renewals, car inspections, etc). Even sales taxes will make you cry when you're that close to the edge. (Which is why flat taxes suck.) Stuff that a lot of us don't even pay attention to or at worst will grumble a bit at the inconvenience or price of are a staggering and possibly fatal hit to someone making this kind of money.

[iamthebandfanman]

143. i want to live where you live

because id die of happiness if my gas, water, and electric were that low every month. lol

[Vinca]

146. Seconded. I haven't seen a $30 electric bill in 30 years.

[iamthebandfanman]

148. yep yep

mine combined equal out to about .. oooh... 280-300$ every month all together...

water being the cheapest.

the only thing gas in my house is the heat(furnace).
everything else is electric..stove n water heater ..etc...

[daleanime]

162. As stated earlier,,,,

figures were intentionally low-balled.

[daleanime]

163. oops....

computer hiccups:silly:

[Lerkfish]

149. and that doesn't even include FOOD!

[varelse]

151. Kicking because more people need to see this (nt)

[pleah]

156. K&R It was cheaper for me not to work, at the time, so I stayed

home to raise our son. Now he is grown and there are no jobs, or at least very few to be had. :(

[SoCalDem]

212. I did the same for 7 years, until the youngest was in 1st grade

We were poor, but after paying the sitter & adding the expense of a 2nd car, I would have cleared about $80 a month..

[annm4peace]

161. share with our ignorant Republican friends and family

never mind,, they still will counter it with something stupid

[intheflow]

195. Many of them have invaded this thread. n/t

[snooper2]

164. If you are only making $10 an hour and have a kid...

It's basically not possible to support yourself (food/clothing/shelter)

[daleanime]

165. If your making $10 an hour....

and only get 25 to 35 hours a week, it's damn hard to support yourself.

[old mark]

167. When my wife and I worked for a private-'not for profit' drug treatment

program, we made $6.25/ hour with terrible medical benefits and the "opportunity" to work nights and alternate weekends. For this great sum, we risked being assaulted by adolescent gang members who we were supposed to "supervise" and counsel...we also found a nice collection of weapons commercial and home made each time we inspected the building. This was in the mid 1990's. We both worked there till my wife began to become ill, and could not work.
We rented a rural farm house for $550 a month, paid all utilities including a massive oil bill. We were able to buy a small old row house using money given to us when we got married as a downpayment, and our mortgage was less than our rent had been. We still live there.
We declared bankruptcy once because of medical bills incurred because our insurance would not cover my wife's pre-existing condition.

Sucks to be working poor in America.
mark

[Inchworm]

171. Disability + 6-10 hours a week @ $8/hr looks even worse

on paper. Lets not forget the impending doom hanging over my head for trying. I'm guessing that once my 9 month "trial work period" is up my disability will be terminated.

I'm already being garnished at the $8/hr job for a Student Loan I have no means to pay.

Survival is a fun game.... not. Good luck SoCalDem :hug:

x(

Edit: clarity

[Cal Carpenter]

172. It's appalling

that despite your total low-balling these figures people are still arguing about that.

It's appalling that people are blaming the person in this hypothetical scenario for daring to have children, or not moving to a cheaper area, or not riding the bus, as if those are really choices at all (and I say this as a child-free person).

I don't even know what else to say....

[madisongrace]

236. agree n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

173. Yes, that is why my church's dinners for homeless youth attract a

lot of youth who work full time (and often share a small apartment with more other people than the landlord officially approves of) and still need all the free meals they can get to make it to the end of the month.

[wisteria]

174. I guess they don't eat. n/t

[Dr.Phool]

175. My frigging electric bill was almost $500 last month.

Homeowners and flood insurance $4500 this year.

[joeybee12]

176. You're not even going to make $10 an hour at Wal-Mart or most

retail jobs.

[madmax]

182. Doesn't include food!?

Since there is money allocated for daycare I'm assuming there is a child.

[WCIL]

183. Imagine the pain if you also have to pay back student loans!

I work with 3 recent college graduates who can't find a full-time job anywhere and are getting desperate. They scramble for all the hours they can get and have second jobs, but the thought of ever moving out of their parent's homes is seeming more and more remote. They don't qualify for health insurance on parental policies anymore, either.

[BrklynLiberal]

185. Sad sad sad...and oh so very true

[lakeguy]

186. that's pretty low for gas and electric

my electric was 40 (normal) and gas was about 100 (winter) last month. this is in an apartment.

[LatteLibertine]

187. Yes, Understood

Despite being above min wage, 10 dollars an hour is no where near a "living" wage in many areas of the United States.

IMO that's how the min wage should be calculated, or as a living wage. They should figure out the min needed for the costs you outline.

A person who works full time should have at least enough to pay for; rent, utilities, and food.

[NewJeffCT]

188. Child Care $50/week?

For full-time care (pre preschool), I would be lucky to find a place that was $50/day.

We were happy when my daughter started going to school full time - now, we only pay $25/day for after school care.

[The Hope Mobile]

191. All of these estimates are super low . . . except the actual income. nt

[baldguy]

193. Nobody earning less than $50k/yr should have to pay fed income tax.

Instead, we do the opposite: the richest among us pay no taxes (and generally have a disproportionate amount of political power) and the people who can least afford it - the people that built this country & make it work - pay the most.

[gateley]

196. Wow. Brings tears to your eyes. nt

[LiberalFighter]

199. You should use 4.33 as the multiplier for wages and anything else

that is not strictly a monthly expense.

[glitch]

202. Excellent thread, thanks socaldem. K & R nt

[PatSeg]

203. I remember when $10 an hour was a lot of money!

About the same time that daycare cost me $50 a week.

[totodeinhere]

204. Those utility bills are way too low.

I know it varies by location, but where I am here the combined water and sewer bill is $80, my power bill averages $100, and during the winter my gas bill is over $300. Plus in many places there is no way you could get an apartment for $500 monthly. A rundown one bedroom starts at over $800 here.

[gorfle]

210. Less #1 from this math class:

Don't have kids if you only make $10/hour and have to pay for daycare.

[bobbolink]

213. Now, consider that over half of SS disability is SSI, and that figures out to

about $4.21 an hour.

[bobbolink]

214. "There are many $6 an hour jobs. There isn't much $6 an hour housing."

Andrew Cuomo, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development under President Bill Clinton between 1997 and 2001.

[readmoreoften]

216. This is how a college student lives on $10 an hour. Plus food isn't mentioned.

And electric is $30? Where do you live?

[mudplanet]

225. What about car insurance ($50 month) and car repairs?

The message they're giving us is that we have no business living.

[SoCalDem]

227. The working-poor have no "cushion"

every unexpected thing is a dire emergency..they drive with no insurance because they cannot afford it, and they fall off the cliff if they are ever stopped by a cop or have an accident. They take calculated risk every day of their lives because they have no money to protect themselves..even a little bit.

They medicate their own kids at home, rather than taking them to the doctor..UNTIL the child is very sick..and then they hotfoot it to the ER, and then end up having to move & change phone numbers to get away from the unpayable bills that result from that adventure..

Assisted housing around here has a 4-5 YEAR waiting list..and if you earn one penny more than their "guideline", you don;t qualify..

My friend's son & daughter-in-law were on the list, ans by the time their number came up, he had finally found a job..and their income was about $28 (IIRC) over the limit..and of course a few months later he was laid off again..:(

They have been married 7 years and have 3 kids, and have always lived in her father's house.. all of them crammed into what was once a family room..off the kitchen..

It was incredibly stupid of them to have those kids..but they are here now, so it's just a fact they have to live with.. They both work, but she gets about 20 hrs a week, and he gets about the same..neither makes over $8.50 an hour..:(..they have no car, and have to mooch rides to and from work..

[cbdo2007]

231. Don't forget - $60/month cell phone, $80/month cable tv, $100/month cigarettes

[SoCalDem]

235. crass³.... n/t

[Dr.Phool]

237. Rush! Is that you?

You forgot $200 for Viagra and Enzyte.

[JuniperLea]

238. We aren't talking about you...

Merely a hypothetical person.

[cbdo2007]

242. Unfortunately, I can't even afford cable tv....

And I didn't mean my post to sound crass (well I guess I did a little bit) but it's just so sad out there to see all the families with cell phones and cable tv and cigarette habits when they won't even get their kids health care.

My wife works with many families like this as a social worker. It's not some made up group of people. In fact they have cell phones and their 12-15 year old kids have cell phones!

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter how much money someone makes if they don't know what to do with it. Heck, there are thousands of kids out there who qualify for Medicaid who DON'T have coverage just cause their parents won't fill out the paperwork. It's all ready for them...but the parents just won't/don't do it.

[JDPriestly]

239. That's the real bottom line. Thanks.

As for the car payment, if you own your car outright and are earning only $10 per hour, chances are that just keeping it running can cost you $150 per month or thereabouts -- including car insurance, registration and repairs.

I note that there is no item for heat or water, which, I assume you are including in the $500 per month rent. I cannot imagine what kind of rental a person could get for $500 per month in Los Angeles. I don't think it would include heat or even be livable. Does anyone know of a $500 per month rental in Los Angeles that is safe and livable? I don't think you could get more than a room for that, probably without kitchen privileges.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

245. No argument here. It can't be done even in areas where the COL is as low as your figures.

Not even if you pinch every penny until it cries. It just isn't doable.

[DissedByBush]

246. Couple suggestions

Drop your withholding to zero because there's no way you're paying taxes on that little income anyway.

You obviously have a young child. Apply for WIC and other benefits that come with this.

Apply for Medicaid.

Apply for all of the other state and federal benefits you obviously qualify for.

[lib2DaBone]

247. K/R ...And you better be damm happy you are getting that much...

..before the Republican Wall Street crowd calls you a lazy, no good, slacker tax payer.

Unlike Goldman Sachs who receive $Billions in welfare and pay ZERO taxes.

This is the way it works.. the rich get richer... and everyone else works harder. NAFTA is not your friend and there is no such thing as a "Level Playing Field".

[The Gunslinger]

253. daycare $50 a week???

On what planet?