K, so why are ALL republicans AND ALL insurance companies AND ALL of the CoC against this bill?!

[uponit7771]

Jus sayin, you can make the case that they're ALL really stupid ALL at the SAME TIME but to be fight this hard against something they "Really" want makes them ALL sound irrational ALL at the same time or ...............or...............or this bill has some good stuff in it.

Your take?

TIA

P.S. People, what REALLY sounds improbable is that ALL of the HCI execs and ALL of the GOP and ALL of the chamber of commerce are ALL baseline irrational enough to want nothing instead of something ALL at the same time.....that position in itself sounds......Bushish.

P.S.S - K, come on now.......some'ah yaw are reachin into the land of irrational yourselves with this "...they're ALL irrational but smart..." argument. Rope a-dope only goes so far

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I think it's because for the very first time ever,

insurance companies are being regulated at the federal level. While the bill has all kinds of flaws, discussed ad nauseam here and elsewhere, the fact is that it's doing something that's never been done before, which is impose federal regulations on an industry that has only ever been very lightly regulated, if at all, by individual states. It sets a precedent the insurance companies don't like, even if in the short run they will gain more customers.

And as we all know, Republicans hate all regulation just because they are free market Randian nitwits who believe as a matter of ideology that government shouldn't actually help people.

[lonestarnot]

26. Because piliCONs want to show just how unabashedly ignorant they are...

:shrug:

[Toasterlad]

35. Exactly. In Their Minds, It Sets a Dangerous Precedent.

The OP poses one of the dumbest questions I've ever seen on DU. Since when have the Republicans not whined about not getting EXACTLY what they want? And what corporation wouldn't be constantly fighting to get 100% of what they want as well? That's what lobbyists DO.

[uponit7771]

2. bumpity

[msongs]

3. they are against it? ok nt

[uponit7771]

8. Do you live in the continental US? tia

[ShortnFiery]

25. Oh they feign outrage but the insurance cartel is, deep down, *all aflutter* = MANDATES! MMMmmm.

[Statistical]

62. They gain mandates but lose ability to drop people with pre-existing conditions.

Plus are subjects to limits on what % of revenue must pay claims, and more.

If anyone thinks the insurance companies love this compared to current system = charge massive premiums, oh you are sick sorry dropped, sorry we can't give you coverage for your "pre-existing" condition they are fooling themselves.

[uponit7771]

71. I'm HONESTLY starting to think some of these people positing agains the bill or HCI folk themselves

...this position they're taking is crazy

[SPedigrees]

77. I came to that conclusion a short time ago. Freeper teabagging plants on this forum. nt

[Statistical]

80. Plus I think some people just like despair.

Since the HCR isn't perfect (I was hoping for single payer or at least strong public option) it is 100% pure and complete shit a total handout to insurance companies.

They seem to forget that middle ground exists. While it isn't what we hoped (and shame on Democratic leadership for not acomplishing more) it can still be a step in the right direction and something the Insurance companies dislike.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. The application of Occam's Razor must be used here.

No need looking for grand schemes. There's a lot of good things in this bill.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. I love Occam's Razor. Wish more people would pay attention to it.

Like I said above -- the reason the insurance companies and the Republicans don't like the bill is simple: it's because it regulates, however imperfectly, an industry that has never before been regulated.

[uponit7771]

24. Most who are against the bill don't know what CHC's are and how they'll help them

[ShortnFiery]

64. Occam's Razor = simple = Bill mostly enriches the OWNERS = Insurance Cartel and Big Pharma.

The GOP is jealous and want to win in November = Yes, it works here. MANDATES gives full power to the Corporations.

[Hello_Kitty]

87. I like Occam's Razor. It's a much more reliable model than 11th Dimensional Chess. eom

[joeybee12]

5. Called bait and switch...oldest trick in the book...and still used because it works..n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

36. +1

[PA Democrat]

6. The insurance companies want a bill that will benefit them even more than this one does.

They want the additional revenue of more people subscribing without any regulation forcing them to actually provide health care. Corporations exist to MAXIMIZE profits, not just accept pretty good profits.

[uponit7771]

15. I read mores argument and it's stupid, if they HCI's are going to be irrational why stop at 100%?!?

The very definition of irrational from a compulsory disorder (all of the HCI's, all at the same time with all of their leader ship?!?!!? :rolleyes:) thinking would have them stopping at 300% or some crap...

But my question related to republicans AND HCI's not just HCI's, Moore didn't address the other part

[PA Democrat]

34. CEOs of corporations behave rationally?

Oh jeez, how do you explain the behavior of Wall Street then?

As far as Republican go, I think the answer is obvious. Jim DeMint expressed it pretty clearly. They are hoping health care reform will be Obama's Waterloo. They know that defeat of this bill will derail much of the rest of his agenda, which is why I reluctantly support this bill.

[uponit7771]

46. Yes, and I work in finance what WS did was legal because of deregulation and they could care less...

...about the individuals in their cos or the country.

Again, the CoC and the GOP and the HCI's ALL decide to act like irrational teenagers ALL at the same time ALL together is VERY improbable.

[PA Democrat]

97. It may have been legal, but that doesn't mean it was rational.

I spent a decade working for one of the largest banks in the country. My customers included many of the institutions at the center of the of the meltdown. I can say without a doubt that the behavior of financial institutions (despite the analyses of the brightest and best) is partially driven by a dangerous amount of groupthink. In the rush for short term profits, risk is downplayed or ignored. It's still occurring on Wall Street as we speak. Is it rational to continue to engage in a very high risk derivatives market when the American public is still so angry about the last bailout?

The word is that AHIP had reached a tentative deal to back a health care reform bill if it included a public mandate. From what I have read, they have backed out of supporting the current Senate bill because the fines for enforcing the mandate were not tough enough. So at some point it looks like the industry felt it was in their best interests to support the bill, but now who can guess what their "strategy" is. But to say that it is completely rational would be to give the behavior of corporations individually or as a group much more credit than they deserve.

In the meantime, AHIP justifies their continued existence as does the Chamber of Commerce by convincing their members that they need to be afraid, very afraid of supporting this bill. Works out great for the lobbyists. Maybe not so great for the insurance companies in the long run as more and more people see their premiums rise and more and more people drop their insurance altogether.

[Spazito]

7. Well, it seems, from some posters, this is a double-triple cross....

to fool Americans into thinking the repubs and health Insurance industries don't like this so no one will know they 'love' it! You see, it is quite simple: The anti-healthcare bill ads telling Americans to call their Reps and Senators and tell them to vote NO is really a code for encouraging Americans to call their Reps and Senators to vote yes and the millions they are spending on these ads are PROOF that they really do LOVE this bill!

See, it's really quite simple when you think about it!

:rofl:

Edited to remove a wayward 's'.

[DevonRex]

12. LOL. I guess they believe the pukes are playing 3-D chess. nt

[uponit7771]

17. I agree, some of the rational for HCI's and GOP being against this bill are starting to sound stupid

[Lasher]

9. Republicans are against it because Democrats are for it.

Insurance companies are pretending to oppose it.

[uponit7771]

18. WTF?!?!! Really?!?!

[Spazito]

81. LOL! and here I thought I was exaggerating a bit in my previous post...

damn, it seems I understated the case for the double-triple cross!

:rofl:

[GoCubsGo]

48. Yeah, the insurance companies love it so much...

...that they're spending hundreds of millions of their own dollars to try to defeat it. They love it so much, they are paying hundreds of lobbyists big bucks to convince Congress not to vote for it. And, those wall-to-wall ads you're seeing on TV opposing it, they got those for free, right? :crazy:

[Lasher]

55. And the insurance companies hate it so much their stock is going up today.

While the S&P 500 remains flat.



Edit: And they are not spending their 'own' money on lobbyists and ads, unless senior management and BOD members are writing checks from their personal accounts.

[ShortnFiery]

61. 1,000,000,000 = In Billions BABY!

:evilgrin:

[GoCubsGo]

91. Yep, it IS their money.

When you sign that check with their name on it, and they cash it, it's their money. You gave it to them. Theirs and their stock holders'. Just sayin'.

[Lasher]

99. The hell you say.

It is corporate money, which has been obtained by charging higher premiums in order to cover this wasteful overhead. These funds never make it into the personal accounts of senior management or BOD members. It is therefore intellectually dishonest to characterize this as 'their money' that they have spent.

Way to cheerlead for the biggest villans of all in the health care world, the insurance company CEOs and their senior management.

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. Ah, it's not THEIR money they are spending. It's OUR money.

Remember the huge premium hikes? THAT is what is paying for the campaign.

They like things as they are, and they don't like uncertainty, so they want to keep things as they are. At the same time, you KNOW that there are a thousand 8k/hr lawyers working on how to avoid any and all new regulation in this bill - the bill will NOT hurt their bottom line by so much as a penny. But each of those ploys costs time and money and may result in court cases, so killing it now is more efficient than killing it piecemeal later.

Not that there is much left to kill.

EDIT: Oh, and those premium hikes that are paying for the campaign against the bill? When this is all done and over, those rates will not go back down, win or lose. Look for record profits for the next two years.

[GoCubsGo]

89. Nope, not my money

I got laid off almost 3 years ago, and my health insurance went away with my job/career. I chose not to pay any insurance company hundreds of dollars a month for a policy with a $5000 deductible. If I had something minor, I would still have to pay out of my pocket. A catastrophic illness or injury would still leave me just as bankrupt as it would if I didn't have that crap insurance at all. That is the one thing I don't understand here: Why does anyone keep paying these thieves more and more when they know that they're still going to get screwed in the end?

[beardown]

10. I'm guessing here.

I'd guess it's they vote against everything the dems propose and they want to include the dem congress people in Obama's Waterloo moment (their aim, not mine). They don't want more govt intervention. They don't like mandates and are too stupid to realize that this mandate is conscripting customers for the insurance industry. They don't want additional regulations no matter how weak or temporary they could turn out to be.

I could go on, but most of the reasons that I'd come up with all center around the right being equal parts ideologically blinded and stupid.

[NYC_SKP]

11. It's their own version of 6-dimensional chess? YouTube: Shadegg Supports Single Payer!!!

In case you missed Rachel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjEuYYuICZ8

:rofl:

[Romulox]

13. Welcome to two party politics.

:eyes:

[butterfly77]

14. They won't be able to ..

get the check or the pay off. The Repugs work for the insurance companies. The insurance companies want to keep the repugs in office to keep putting in loop holes in bills so they both can get paid off.

[dkf]

16. You ever tell someone you don't like something to trick them into supporting it?

Sometimes the best thing to do is make the other guy think they are winning. Manipulation 101.

[uponit7771]

22. No, I don't interact with people that irrational on a daily basis. My 2 year olds are more rational

...than that, we're not talking to ALL teenagers

[dkf]

32. Its typical republican behavior. They are for tax cuts until you put it in a jobs bill and

Have dems sponsor it.

[uponit7771]

39. K, so ALL HCI execs and ALL of the COC and ALL of the GOP are ALL thinking like teenagers ALL at the

...same time?!

Come on...

[dkf]

47. Teenagers?

It's not an age it's a mindset.

Would you embrace a health insurance bill that the health insurance companies loved? Woudnt that make you suspicious?

[uponit7771]

50. No, if it was a win\win I would like take it...like Swedens system...the HCI's wold loved that and..

...and progressives would've loved it also...

[ShortnFiery]

52. "Hyperbole" does not become someone with such notable intelligence.

:evilgrin: :hi:

[uponit7771]

53. Sweden system is a win win, HCI's get garunteed money and everyone gets covered in this case the HCI

...HCI's do NOT get garunteed money if people don't sign up and take the fine.

[ShortnFiery]

56. You know that would not be the case. Don't you? Not comparable.

That is, your original hypothesis is not viable. NOTHING is "all" ... absolutes do not test out well.

[uponit7771]

57. Hmmm, I'm going to take the fine and use the CHC's for health care because they're cheap...

...why wouldn't other folk do the same after finding out the benefits?

TIA

[ShortnFiery]

58. I don't accept your conclusion above, therefore, we can't discuss further. eom

[uponit7771]

63. Which conclusion? About Sweden or the fine? TIA

[PA Democrat]

101. Sweden's sytem is a combination of private and public.

Sweden had a single payer system and has only recently allowed private insurance companies to compete for business.

Are you really saying that US health insurance companies would "love" a system like Sweden's? Really? They want a public option? Who knew?

[treestar]

79. Only if I assumed there was no way we could have any common interests, ever

And that is an irrational assumption.

How do you manage to do business with anyone? The idea you have that everyone is cheating you all the time likely makes you unpleasant to deal with.

[ShortnFiery]

45. Many of the Republicans are brilliant. You can't tell me that William Kristol or ...

Brit Hume are DULL? They are arguably "evil" but men with high IQs.

However, they understand the art forms of "disinformation and propaganda."

WHY do you think that the GOP always sets the agenda.

We must play the Psychological Operations games better than they do because republicans OWN the M$M.

[ShortnFiery]

28. Works swimmingly with teenagers.

;) :blush:

[uponit7771]

30. Lol, I asked that question in my post..Do you think ALL HCI execs, chamber of comerce, gop etc ALL..

...have the mentality of teenagers?!?!

[ShortnFiery]

38. No, you misinterpret. The American Populace are the teenagers.

Anyone who has even a basic knowledge of Propaganda and PsyOps Operations knows that situations are not nearly as simple as Congress and this Administration would have us believe.

Psychological "Jujitsu" BABY? :evilgrin:

[uponit7771]

41. Again, you're saying they ALL of the mentality of teenagers or ALL of them ALL at the same time are

...baseline irrational enough to fight against something they really want ALL together?!

That's a lot of damn coordination between 200 reps, 100 HCI execs and all of the COC....

[ShortnFiery]

49. No, you know better than to claim that. You are now "playing" the game of exaggeration.

There are many factions but only about a half dozen corporations who OWN the M$M. They coordinate their messages TOGETHER and consult with The Ruling Politicos of both Parties.

If you honestly think that, except on the dim-wit level, there is animosity, you are sadly mistaken.

Sure FOX has it's right wing NUTS, but overall, both parties of ruling elites, share fruitful communications. They are not, at the highest levels, hating on each other at the "special meetings" and POSH socials that we peons never hear about.

[uponit7771]

51. I'm not exagerating I'm paying attention, again...ALL of the GOP, ALL of the CoC, ALL of the HCI's..

...and they're execs and their members are against this bill...

That's facts

[ShortnFiery]

54. It's not "all" ... plus if you study the art of Propaganda, such actions can be easily coordinated.

The GOP will benefit from this legislation but it has disciplined itself to COUNTER all the Democratic Party has promoted.

They must keep to the meme that the democratic party is "evil." To stray from this would be a detriment to their overall efforts to win the Congress come November.

The GOP is a hell of a lot SMARTER than you think.

You should lower yourself to study both Psychological Operations and Propaganda?

If you don't believe that the M$M wasn't constantly coordinating with the Pentagon during the run up to the Iraq invasion, well ... you're doubly naive.

P.S. We will lose in November because our "centrist right leaning leaders" believe that their constituents are STUPID. We know the GOP is all about authoritarian rule, but so are the centrists. The only difference is that the Centrist Leaders LIE to us.

If we have to live under fascism, might as well go full bore? Perhaps then, people will find it within themselves to OPENLY RESIST.

[uponit7771]

60. I respectfully disagree on factual points then, from what I see it IS all of them not just "some"...

....but ALL 3 - 4 established US organizations that are corporatist that are against this bill

[ShortnFiery]

67. You can't employ blanket statements = "All ..." and consider your arguments based on FACTUAL points.

No, that won't work. Have a nice day. :hi:

[uponit7771]

73. Have you heard about ANY reThug, or CoC member or HCI exec that s FOR this bill? TIA

[subterranean]

19. Different reasons...

Republican politicians...they're against it for purely political reasons. They've made it clear that they would oppose ANY reform bill proposed by the Democrats.

Insurance companies are not really fighting hard against this bill. Their preference, of course, is no change at all from the status quo, but if reform is inevitable, they want to make sure it's as favorable to their interests as possible.

And teabaggers...well, they'll believe whatever Fox News tells them to believe.

[BeFree]

20. Embarrassing

All this talk about a conspiracy, is an embarrassment to liberalism.

You people need to accept the conventional wisdom and get with the program or this thread will be moved to the dungeon!!


<grinning>

[uponit7771]

29. The logic they're using sounds....Bushish...

[Mari333]

21. republicans stick together they would be against anything dems do

insurance companies are popping champagne corks.


this was and is bad theater.

[uponit7771]

27. ...Chamber of Comerce?! HCI's are popping corks and spending millions on anit reform actions?

You guys are starting to reach a lil no?

[ShortnFiery]

69. Hey, it's a WIN-WIN. When you own the politicians and the industry, no worries!

;)

[uponit7771]

72. SO spend a quarter of a billion being against something you're for?

[RaleighNCDUer]

74. You haven't seen the trend? The harder they fight, the more we weaken it

and make concessions favorable to them. They will keep wringing concessions from us until there is nothing left of the bill - trust me, it will get WEAKER, not stronger, in reconciliation after it passes. Even before reconciliation it's been preemptively announced that the PO will NOT be a part of it.

Then, what little is left, their millionaire lawyers will put through a wringer again, to evade ALL significant regulation; what's left will be a mandate to pay in with no guarantee of getting anything out. Why wouldn't the insurance companies rejoice at that?

[Orsino]

31. Insurance executives want more concessions...

...and Republicans want Democrats to be seen to fail.

[uponit7771]

33. HCI execs want to kill the bill and get nothing cause they want more? They're ALL that irrational!?!

[Orsino]

40. They have acted all along to pull the bill as far to the right as they can.

Any kill-the-bill agitation was a bargaining position.

[uponit7771]

42. So why didn't they fight FOR it when it was in flames in Jan?!

[RaleighNCDUer]

76. Think about where it is now, and you tell us.

They got vewwy vewwy qwiet when it looked like it might actually be defeated. If they hate it, why didn't they double down and SMASH it when they had the chance?

[PA Democrat]

100. I agree. And according to this article from Business Week,

that's exactly what has been going on behind the scenes.

<snip>

AHIP made a deal with President Obama earlier this year that its members would sell policies to everyone at the same rates, regardless of health status or pre-existing conditions. In return, the industry wanted a strong individual mandate that would require everyone to buy insurance who could afford to, with subsidies for those who couldn't. The additional new customers, it figured, would create such a broad risk pool that insurers could afford to cover the already sick.

The individual mandate contained in the finance committee draft is far weaker than AHIP wanted, however. The Congressional Budget Office released a preliminary estimate that the proposed legislation would probably extend coverage to 29 million Americans who currently lack insurance, leaving 25 million people still uninsured. AHIP charges that the weak fines contained in the bill for people who don't purchase insurance means that too many healthy people will forgo insurance, opting in only when they become sick. Without lots of healthy people in an insurance plan to shoulder the risk , premiums will have to rise, AHIP says. The lobbying group is also unhappy about proposals to tax so-called "Cadillac plans," the most expensive policies offered by some companies to their employees, and the billions of dollars in fees levied on various segments of the health care industry --all of which, it says, will end up being passed on to consumers.

http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/10/insurance_indus_1.html

[laughingliberal]

37. Republicans because they are against any legislation passing

Insurance companies are still pushing to remove the part that says they have to give us a policy for sending them our money.

[kctim]

43. This bill?

Government mandate and higher taxes.
At least for the rank and file Republicans.

Don't care why insurance companies are against it, so have no idea.

[Romulox]

44. If the three card monte guy is a con artist, then why is he offering big pay outs?

:silly:

[mdmc]

59. If it was McCains bill they would love it

It is Romneys bill, yet they hate Obama..

[uponit7771]

65. The HCI's and the CoC are against some that would supposedly help them cause they hate Obama?

Come on guys, not ALL of these people are all stupid

[mdmc]

83. I don't know what HCI or CoC are

but the GOP hates this bill cause it is a 'victory' for Obama.
The health insurance industry wrote the bill, so they only hate in so much as it isn't exactly the status quo..

[mdmc]

108. they hate obama

and love the bill

[branders seine]

68. this has been addressed repeatedly. Poitics and Policy are two different things.

The policy is a done deal, and that deal was done WITH, BY and FOR the insurance companies. They already won the policy battle. We will get exactly what they negotiated with Obama last year--mandates, no real cost control, no public option, certainly no single payer. All this show for the last year has been about POLITICS, not POLICY. As favorable as the Democrats have been to corporations, the rapaublicans and their capitalist anarchy are even better. What is happening now is the medical bankster insurance cabal is jockeying for political position down the road. They will oppose all things "D." Their agenda is served by taking their already guaranteed policy victory and adding a political victory on top of it. Political victory for them is chaos, division and partisan rancor.

It's Machiavelli 101.

[uponit7771]

70. ALL of the HCI execs are against this ALL of them NOT ONE of them is speaking for this bill and your

..making taking the position that ALL 100-200 of these HCI's execs are "jockeying for political position"?!?!?!

What about the CoC?! They're Jockeying too?!!

Also, a good number of R's voted FOR Afghanistan so your argument falls apart on that alone.

There's some good in this bill....

[branders seine]

86. ALL of the rapublicans are AGAINST IT

ALL of the democrats are FOR IT

and YOU are trying to DENY that it is POLITICAL!?!??!!?

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

75. The bill is complex, and different groups can like/dislike enough parts of it to promote/obstruct it

without having the same reasons.

the lumping together of people that oppose the bill is lazy thinking.

for example, I oppose the bill because it doesn't go far ENOUGH
a republican would oppose the bill because it goes TOO FAR.



does that mean I am friends with or the same as a republican, because we are both unhappy with the bill in its current state?

absolutely not.

for example, my objections would be on the inclusion of a mandate and the disinclusion of a public option and an anti-trust section.
a republican's might be that they don't want any restrictions at all, or well... I'll leave them to explain their own objections...

but the point is, the parts of the bill I object might not even be on the radar of the other person, so to say we are monlithically the same because we oppose the same bill... is just plain wrong.

[uponit7771]

78. Spending a quarter of a billin dollars being against something they're for = irrational at best...

...the reason WHY they're irrational is irrelevant to my point. The fact that they're all doing it at the same time for a baseline reasoning is improbable is my position; ALL of the HCI execs are NOT irrational teenagers like some have proposed.

[Lerkfish]

82. I think we're talking past each other... let me put my point more simply

more than one group can be against the same thing for different reasons.


sometimes I overexplain, sorry.

[dflprincess]

84. Plausible deniability

when the public figures out that they've been sold to the insurance companies the Republicans can remind them that they didn't support the insurance scam.

[bvar22]

85. EXACTLY.

The Republicans got every major issue they wanted without assuming ANY Political Risk.

As Premiums continue to RISE for the nest few years, and 45 Million are forced to buy Insurance they don't have the money to use, ALL the Republicans have to do is sit back and say,
"YEP. We opposed it.
The Democrats raised your Premiums and rammed it down your throats.
Vote Republican."

I am furious that the "Democratic" Party gave away so much over the last year, and gained NOTHING.

[leftstreet]

90. +1

[Hello_Kitty]

88. Are you serious?

It's called "negotiating from a position of strength". Something that people like you would do well to learn.

"Yessir Mister Senators Lieberman and Nelson! Whatever you want sirs! May we please have another?" is NOT negotiating from a position of strength. The second your opponent realizes you will take anything that comes out, you have lost.

[Greyhound]

92. Three reasons;

It doesn't give them everything they want.

It's the 'Democrats plan'

"Don't throw me in that Brier patch patch Mr. Wolf!"

[mmonk]

93. I don't know. Ask their lobbyists that wrote the bill.

[Individualist]

95. +1

[coti]

94. The Republicans are, for political reasons, but the truth is the insurance companies aren't.

I've seen next to nothing from the insurance companies with regard to advertising against this bill. And, to the extent they have spent money influencing our representatives on it, they've gotten exactly what they wanted- no public option or Medicare buy-in, the anti-trust exemption staying, individual mandates, no drug reimportation, and a WHOLE lot more money rolling in from the federal government.

It makes perfect sense and all fits squarely within the deal they made with Obama.

[uponit7771]

104. I've seeen plenty of HCI backed advertising against this bill

[Hekate]

96. They're using reverse psychology on us lefties, that's what. It's all bad, nothing is real...

... you can't believe your lying eyes. :eyes:

Oh, almost forgot :sarcasm:

Hekate

[Junkdrawer]

98. Too many seeing through the Kabuki Theatre?

Heap some more ridicule. Hey, it worked for 9/11 skepticism.

[uponit7771]

103. Higher probability in 911 theories than in theory that the HCI bill oponents are spending 250mil ...

...on opposing something they "really" want.

[harkadog]

102. Name these "all" of the insurance companies who are against the bill

which is going to give them tens of millions of new customers. Where are they against it? Don't count the ones who just exist in your mind.

[freddie mertz]

105. It is a political strategy. nt.

[w4rma]

106. Because they'd rather have Republicans in power. They are united in their attacks on Democrats and

progressives who are the base of the Democratic Party.

They want to see Obama fail (or at least pass a failure of a bill) so that they can raise their chances of gaining more power in the next elections.

Btw, it's my understanding that Rahm/Obama made a deal with the insurance companys to kill the public option in exchange for their support.

[MadHound]

107. The reason they're screaming is because it works!

Look what screaming has gotten them so far, their mandated wet dream. So why not scream some more, see what else they can get:shrug: