Will someone please explain how HCR benefits folks with no jobs, who own their homes

[saracat]

yet have a mortgage and are living off the last vestiges of a 401K and the equity of their home? The withdrawal of the retirement funds is treated as "income" though it isn't. We have no employer to provide health insurance and health insurance is what is eating our retirement up.And how is this going to help at all for prescription drugs? Already we aren't taking prescribed medicine because we can't afford it. Do we have to sell every thing we own and live in a box before we get help?We already drive 16 year old cars and do without most luxuries. My animals haven't had veterinary care for 5 years.With the exception of one cat that died from the bad cat food that further depleted our resources and we were never given anything by the class action suit.And what about dental? I haven't seen a dentist for years, since my husband lost his dental plan. How much exactly are we expected to give up before we are worthy of living? And oh yeah, I do have a preexisting condition, not that it matters, and we aren't yet eligible for Medicare!

[MineralMan]

1. It doesn't. But neither will killing it.

In the meantime, it will help some people.

Killing the measure helps nobody.

[saracat]

2. Sorry .My years of working for nothing are over.I can't afford to support a party that doesn't

support me a or be excited about a charity that doesn't extend to my family and forces us by mandate to buy something that doesn't benefit us. Thank you for your honesty.

[MineralMan]

7. I understand. I went through all my retirement funds over the past

four years. I'm finally back working again, having started a new business, which appears to be working out OK. I'm earning money again. I guess I'll still be doing it when I fall over. There it is.

My Medicare starts on July 1, 2010. That will save about $500/month. A good thing.

Nevertheless, the current bill doesn't help me. It doesn't help my wife, who is just 54. It helps many people, though, so I support it as a step in the right direction. I can do nothing else, except keep on working to get candidates elected who will continue making progress.

It is what it is. It's barely going to pass as it is. Single payer would not have passed this year. Medicare for all would not have passed this year, although I see it passing within the next four years.

I'm sorry for your troubles. I know what they're like. But they have nothing to do with the current HCR bill. My support for it has nothing to do with my current financial situation. It has to do with taking one small step towards the goal. That step will help many. Unfortunately it leaves out many, too.

[saracat]

17. The opportunity was there to help folks like us. They chose NOT to.

I guess I can choose not to support them.WE may lose everything "waiting" for help. We are looking for jobs everywhere. My husband has a masters and years of corporate experience. We have started businesses . It didn't work out.That was the first thing we did after he was "outsourced".We aren't eligible for Medicare.
They could bail out the banks and bail out corporations but the suffering middle class who have lost their jobs just gets to die or be wiped out?

[MineralMan]

21. I wish I had an answer for you. I'm still looking for one for

my wife and me. I used to get paid $1 a word for my writing when I was at the peak of my career. Now, I'm making about $25/hour. I'm writing a lot, and making a little, but it all helps. Looks like the work is going to come in faster. Maybe I'll be able to raise my rates soon. I don't know.

We're no longer searching for funds as desperately. We were getting pretty close to panic. I hope you find a solution.

[saracat]

31. Good luck to you.I am glad you have found a solution. Hopefully we will too one day.

[saracat]

32. Delete dupe

[awoke_in_2003]

80. "I guess I'll still be doing it when I fall over"

welcome to the modern America. At least my house will be paid off in 5 years, so maybe I will be able to get by working part time at 70 :(

[MineralMan]

104. Ours is paid off. We sold our paid-off home in California when we

moved to Minnesota to help my wife's mom and her dad (who died a couple of years ago). We bought twice the house here for half the money, but ran through the remainder in a couple of years, since the freelance writing business was weak. Still is.

[truedelphi]

88. Unfortunately Mineral Man, the reason that I am almost certain changes will not happen to the

Bill is the fact that Obama has made only two very strong statements about HCR

Statement One) "Cost containment/deficit neutral statements." (Though by cost containment, he is talking about the government expenditures, not about containing the inflated costs Big Medical Interests shove down our throats.

Statement Two) "I want to be the last President that has to deal with HCR" and
Combine that with "Has to be done, and done now."

When the Bill passes, that is it. Obama has made good on his pledges to the Big Insurers, and occasionally MARK MY WORDS when campaign coffers are not as full as some would like, there will definitely be a move to put in "changes." Unfortunately the only change that will happen is the increase int he size of the campaign coffers. The lobbyists will show up and make their "bribes" (Ooops did I print that out loud!) I mean, the lobbyists will show up and issue monetary statements that are legally enforced by the SCOTUS ruling about how Big Money is only another form of Free Speech.

There will be no more plane rides for Dennis, no more phone calls to Lynn Woolsey, Nada. We Progressive will go back to the back of the bus, where we apparently belong. With Rahm throwing infective our way any time he feels like it. And (I imagine) the President laughing his Presidential butt off at how stoopid we people really are.

[JuniperLea]

110. Well said...

I am in a similar situation... doesn't really help me personally... but if it helps a few and can be modified down the road, it's a start and I'm for it. Doing nothing will only make things worse. We can't go on like this.

Additionally, we need to consider the money we all spend on people who just show up in emergency rooms... that eventually comes out of our pockets too.

[kirby]

25. With respect...

Obviously you are upset and bitter about your life situation. But I am sure there are people who are battling cancer or some serious life threatening issue who WILL be benefited by this bill and think that your selfishness is a threat to their pain. Furthermore, if someone in your family were to become ill, you might see this bill in a different light.

Personally, I am very pissed at this bill. It could have been so much better and I'm not sure how it is going to play out over the next few years.

[saracat]

27. I fervently hope this helps them. And I really resent being called selfish.

I want to know why it is "selfish" to want to protect your own life? Seriously? Healthcare for ALL was a major issue for me. We didn't get it and it isn't likely we will as the opportunity was squandered. if anything that is what I am "bitter" about. There is NO reason to be doing this at all. If they can railroad this though in this manner they could have gotten a PO at the very minimum. My own mother died of breast cancer and I saw the toll it took on my Dad's income. He had huge medical bills to pay afterward and we had to sell our house. BTW. he had government health care.And we weren't poor. No one should go through this. Noone. We really need single payer but it isn't going to happen.Somehow the Admin and most folks are conviced it is "unamerican".

[kirby]

33. Why selfish?

First, because in your post you said you " be excited about a charity that doesn't extend to my family". Second, because insurance by definition does not benefit everyone to the maximum extent. The entire concept is that society pools their premiums into a big pile of money that gets paid out those who get sick. It is kinda like people who complain that they have to pay for auto insurance even though they have never been in an accident.

Your family hopefully will find some jobs and recover partially from this. But there are many people who are sick and do not even have insurance or cannot get coverage today. Even though it costs you $1600 a month (mine costs me $1200 for two people) at least you have it. Some people have lost their homes due to sickness and lack of coverage. I guess a persons situation is all relative.

I agree with you that they could have gotten the PO rammed though if they really wanted. But I don't think it is fair to say there are zero positives about this shitty bill that will most likely pass. And I do think there are portions of the bill that will help people in both your situation and mine.

[saracat]

34. I say that because of the mandates.I used to contribute a lot to charities I didn't benefit from

I mispoke because I am angry. I suppose the Democratic party is the real charity that I receive no benefit from.I guess I will just have to drain the last of our retiremnt funds and lose the house before I have a right to complain.You are right it is relative.

[shraby]

35. One thing is a cold hard fact. Without this bill passing

there would be NO improvements on it and we would all be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. You can bet your sweet bippie that the Republicans would have nothing more than they have for the past 60 years.

[salguine]

64. Calling her "selfish" takes some massive balls. You have some fucking nerve.

[kirby]

73. Read #33 if you want an explanation

of why I thought her comments were selfish.

If I opposed education funding because I do not have children, that would be a pretty selfish reason too.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. I am thinking...

they are not massive, just uninformed. Saracat is good folk.

[emilyg]

93. Selfish? I don't think so.

[WeekendWarrior]

154. Oh, okay, so let's support a party that doesn't give a shit

about anyone, would rather see us die rather than lose a buck, and would feel so much better if this country were run by a fascist dictator.

That make so much more sense.

[saracat]

3. Apparently, few benefit by its passing and many are harmed. The logic escapes me.

It isn't going to be killed. I am just sad that this administration holds people like me that spent our lives dedicated to the Democratic party is such contempt. I guess I know where I stand now. And I guess thats something.

[joycean]

12. That's not right

I think a lot of people will benefit greatly from this legislation. Maybe I see it differently because I work in the medical field, but I think routing these bloated profit machines (aka health insurance companies) who profit off of the sick and the dying is one of the best things we can do for our country. The benefits of this reform are numerous, and they begin with increasing access to care.

[sabrina 1]

60. How does this bill, which is actually saving the private insurance

companies, help to route them? They benefit from every aspect of this bill. From the subsidies, which go to them first, and after they take out as much as they can for their bottom line, of our tax dollars btw which would be better handled in a medicare type program, they will do what they've always done, provide as little treatment as they can get away with. They have highly paid experts already finding loopholes in this bill and since they have no fear of the people, will use every one of them as always.

This bill entrenches them, it validates a system that has caused the deaths of more Americans than any terrorist could dream of. In a sane society, many of them would be in jail or at least out of business long ago.

And, it keeps Americans thinking that they need them. They perform no function that cannot and would not be performed better and with less cost by a publicly funded and managed program.

When I talk to friends in Europe or Canada who have just recently learned about this system, they are literally horrified, and appalled that any American would defend it. For them, healthcare is a right, and any politician who is brave, or stupid enough to try to change that, won't be heard from again, at least on that topic.

Americans have been abused for so long that, like anyone who is abused, they don't even realize how bad it is. Not until they see how other civilized countries treat their citizens.

When all Americans stop apologizing for what is really indefensible, we will get what everyone else has. But as long as people are willing to keep taking it, we will get a few crumbs every once in a while, but people will keep dying.

[kath]

131. +100.

[eridani]

94. How in goddam HELL does insurance get you CARE? n/t

[truedelphi]

140. I really think you need to read up on some of the posted OP's from the last few days.

This bill does not do what you think it does. Not your fault, if you are working five days a week and just paying attention to the headlines.

Yeah, it will expand by thirty million Americans the issuance of health insurance. But consider that first, we consumers did not get any roll backs on prices. So we are ALL paying these rat bastards a premium and inflated price for their "oversight" of our lives. Which adds up to increased costs of 30% - and a subject that no one in Congress cared to address.

How hard would it be, if Congress was really serving us and not the Big Insurers, to see to it that the inflated prices are rolled back and that that is part of the Bill?

Then we the consumers will have to, in addition to our premium payments, pay co-pays and pay deductibles. In many cases, this means that a majority of people will not be able to use their health insurance. What is the point of going to a doctor to find out why you are having symptoms of a major illness, if you cannot afford the expensive tests or expensive treatments?

In this bill, the Powers that Be are also stripping away some five hundred billion bucks out of MediCare, claiming that they are sure that there is that much waste in MediCare. So this Bill could possibly critically maim the MediCare system.

And the Big Insurers can still rescind people's policies. So if you say, "lied" about that broken finger you suffered way back in third grade, BINGO - you can be knocked out of your insurance policy - because you were not totally forthcoming. (Saying you simply "forgot" won't count. The only people that can "forget" are people like Geithner, who forgets American law every time that he testifies before Congress. Oh and he forgets to pay his taxes too. But that is all right because he is not a common average run of the mill person. But one of the rat bastards screwing us.)

[LibDemAlways]

161. Thanks for spelling it out. There are some posters here who are

so grateful for the few crumbs being tossed their way, that they aren't looking realistically at what this bill means. Telling people they have to buy insurance they can't ultimately afford isn't particularly helpful.

And there has been virtually no discussion of what the public's response is going to be when they find out - thanks to the R noise machine - that they've been screwed over. It isn't going to be pretty and it will cost the Dems in November, which does no one any good.

[CreekDog]

20. Most of us have private insurance and for once it will be regulated --that will benefit many

Medicaid will be significantly expanded

Funding for low income health care center will be in the billions, which will benefit many

We will get community rating which will reduce the cost of insurance for many people, especially on the individual market...essentially getting large group discounts. This will make pricing better for small businesses and individuals.

Kids preexisting conditions must be covered.

I think my frustration is that your conclusion that few will be helped seems to be based on how much help you expect to get, rather than what the bill actually says.

I also notice in your posts day after day and find that you take nearly every move this president makes personally --and you have for about 2 years now.

[saracat]

24. I only take the policies personally. Why shouldn't I ? As a Democrat

I expect certain positions to be protected.When they aren't I speak out.And do you seriously think people are going to be thrilled with a bill that doesn't benefit them in any way? Of course I am judging on what I expect to "get". I have read the bill and a lot of analysis of it.( I haven't read the reconciliation bill yet but my understanding is that there is no Public Option)

[CreekDog]

30. If taking things personally leads you to incorrect conclusions, then it is a problem

and the problem I mentioned to you is the idea that the bill benefits only a "few", which is misrepresenting the bill.

regarding the rest of your comment, you can want whatever you please and complain about whatever comes to mind, but if you are wrong, it undermines whatever you were trying to do here.

[shraby]

36. I am on medicare and it won't particularly benefit me

to any degree, but if 32 million people will have health care who don't have it now, I'm delighted.

[Jakes Progress]

157. They won't necessarily have health care.

They will have the opportunity to buy insurance. I have insurance and the care is hit and miss. Having insurance and getting care are not the same.

[LibDemAlways]

163. "Having insurance and getting care are not the same." Absolutely true and

definitely lost in the debate over this thing.

My father is residing in the local cemetery because the "care" he was receiving last summer was so subpar that it killed him. This in a nice suburban area of Southern California where the only hospital within miles was ill-equipped to take care of him and the large medical centers had no room for him. He was insured to the hilt, but it didn't matter. The care he needed was simply not available.

[Political Heretic]

142. I'd take it personally too if my life depended on the outcomes.

:shrug:

[CreekDog]

149. How about the harm that would come to people if it does not pass?

kids who will do without, people who won't get Medicaid, people who won't be served by burdened health clinics...

if you want to say people will be harmed...

[Better Believe It]

39. The few who benefit are called the health insurance industry and big Pharma

[LWolf]

167. So, some people are more worthy and deserving than others. nt

[Inuca]

4. Medicaid? n/t

[saracat]

9. Not eleigable until we lose everything.

[laughingliberal]

13. True. Most states you have to spend down until you have a few thousand left in assets

and by a 'few thousand' I mean 2 or 3 thousand. Great!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. Yeah. Just looked at NY. If you own your home, you can get Medicaid BUT

once you die, the state can put a lien on your estate.

[rcrush]

37. Thats what happened to my dad.

Lost the house car etc. ALL of his retirement benefits now go to the nursing home. Medicaid "generously" pays the difference.

[Inuca]

145. Isn't the eligibility supposed to change

once the bill takes effect? I do not remember the exact numbers, but it is one of the R talking points, that a significant percentage of the newly covered will be covered under Medicaid and that's supposed to be a horrible thing (it's not wonderful, but it's definitely much better than nothing)

[kirby]

5. Sounds like this bill will help you...

But it will take a few years while it phases in.

In fact, you are the most likely person to benefit from this. It is the 'middle to upper middle class' who get insurance from their employer who have the least to gain (up until they lose their job or their employer drops their coverage).

People who are unemployed/uninsured and on a limited income will get their health insurance premiums subsidized.

The bill will create some basic / minimum standards about what has to be offered in a medical plan, including prescription coverages.

[saracat]

8. I have prescritption coverage. it is worthless except for generics.

And I have the best available It actually cost me less to have my drugs compounded! My insurance costs more and some of my drugs aren't available in genereic, and even one generic cost $65 a month so I stopped taking it! And you didn't read what I said completely. Our "income" which is what we withdraw from retirement and our home equity, is considered to high. We would NOT be covered.

[laughingliberal]

16. It's just impossible to get through.

There are too many who accept the WH talking points and are unable to tease out the rhetoric. It's as baffling as the right wingers who still think Saddam Hussein had WMD's no matter what the evidence shows.

[kirby]

18. Actually...

I did read what you said. I just assumed that you drew out a very minimum of your retirement for income, trying to maximize how much remained for when you actually retire. I didn't realize you were pulling out a large salary (doesn't that mean you are paying a 10% penalty too?).

I'm not sure what you mean by 'we would NOT be covered'. You will benefit from more standardized plans, the ability to buy from a larger pool on an insurance exchange, the inclusion of a better standardized prescription drug benefit. You would not qualify for any subsidy though if your income exceeds 400% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL is around $19k for a family) so you will get some subsidy if your income is below $80k a year.

And of course you are ignoring the fact that if your medical situation changes and someone in your family gets very ill the law changes might help you keep your home and avoid bankruptcy.

[saracat]

26. Depends on what you think of as large. When insurance is 1600 dollars a month

and prescriptions are 500 dollars a month,( and that is with not taking some of them) and the mortgage is 1600 dollars a month and there is car insurance and other month Bills including electricity and food, exactly what would you do? The very fact that we withdraw what we do to pay for health insurance renders us ineligible to get health insurance! But I guess if we lose everything, I can celebrate because we will get health insurance, or we can wait for a catastrophic illness to save our house if we haven't lost it yet,great scenario! We are looking for jobs everywhere.And there are none to be had and this just adds insult to injury.

[Ms. Toad]

123. Remember, though, if you can keep your income low enough

to be eligible for subsidies you will eliminate (or greatly reduce) the amount you need to draw out to cover insurance and prescription medicines.

Even if you don't end up being eligible for a subsidy, your insurance costs still should be lower because you will be eligible for the exchange - probably about half to 2/3 of what you now pay even without a subsidy.

[joycean]

6. I feel your pain,

and this is why so many of us support a public option. However, even without a public option, the regulations that will (probably) be passed to reform the health insurance industry should do a lot to reduce the cost of insurance, and hopefully the cost of care in general. One way they will reduce costs is by revoking anti-trust exemptions*, which currently allow these insurers to be collusive in their costs to consumers (i.e. price-fixing). Another regulation will prohibit denial of coverage based in pre-existing conditions. Dental care is another thing that hasn't been fully addressed, but hopefully will see some reform as well.



*this is technically separate from the broad HCR legislation, but it is related, and it already passed through the House.

[Individualist]

10. Like this...

[leftstreet]

11. +1

[LibDemAlways]

164. That says it all. That's the middle class in this country in a nutshell. n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skinner]

15. My understanding is that it would provide you a subsidy to buy health insurance.

Plus, you won't be denied insurance due to your preexisting condition.

I don't know the specifics of your financial situation, but this may apply:

Federal subsidies will be available to help them afford coverage. The subsidies will be available for people with incomes up to 400 percent of the poverty level, about $88,200 for a family of four. The poverty levels for 2009 is $22,050 a year for a family of four and $10,830 for an individual.

http://us.mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/AnyArticle/p.rdt?URL=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BK0KA20091221

[laughingliberal]

19. For a family of two, which most older Americans are members of

the subsidy will end at $58,280 annual income. For people in this age group at this income level premiums are very often, in fact almost always, at 25% or more of their income. Ours was $1200 per month 3 years ago and that has gone up since then. We had to drop it. The only help here for these folks is the premium is over 17% of their income and they can get a waiver so they won't have to pay a fine for not buying insurance.

[saracat]

23. It isn't going to help.And the preex doesn't kick in for four years.

By then, If things don't turn around, I will be eligable because we won't have anything left.

[Warren Stupidity]

116. OK. So this bill may not come into force quickly enough to help you.

I am sorry about that. It will help other people. And certainly the status quo, what we have now, doesn't help you at all and never will until you spend all your assets and are poor enough for medicaid. I wish this bill was much better and kicked in immediately, but it remains better than what is.

[Nikki Stone1]

42. Some preexisting conditions will be dumped into the high risk pool created by the bill

Look for that to grow as health insurance companies want more and more profit for doing less and less. (That's the only way they can increase profits).

[eridani]

95. Why would she want a subsidy to buy a useless product? n/t

[elocs]

28. I don't know, but I do know that the Republican attitude is "what's in it for me"

and if there is nothing in it for them then their attitude is "screw it then".

Myself, I'm lucky although I am living under the poverty level. I make enough money to pay my rent and bills, have healthcare through BadgerCare Plus for adults without children, and get enough foodstamp money to buy all my food each month. I'm 57 and still have a ways to go until Medicare, but I am happy if the current bill helps people even if it does not help me.

[saracat]

29. "Screw them" is hardly my attitude but it does seem that is the attiude about folks like me.

And why is that, I wonder?

[laughingliberal]

57. The difference here is that the situation described in the OP is exactly the situation

people who are working class in our age group are facing. At this point in time the bill would, likely, see me qualify for Medicaid and I have nothing right now. But, what I see is those out there still making it and trying to hang on being pushed off the cliff by this. So, I'm not a 'what's in it for me?' person. I'm a what's in it for the vast majority of the working class which will bear most of the burden of the costs of the bill and still have policies which will keep them from accessing adequate care.

[WolverineDG]

127. delete

[fairlight]

38. over two million seniors over 65 and citizens excluded from free medicare coverage

This is my first post. This site, unlike any other, doesn't allow newbies to start a thread, so I found this as in the same category as what friends and I are concerned about. There is a myth that medicare covers all citizens over 65. That is completely untrue. Two million are not eligible for free medicare. You have to have 40 quarters of social security to get free medicare. The buy-in if you don't have that is $448 a month. No one I know can afford that. If one is dirt poor and spends down all but alittle of their savings(not enough to keep you out of the street or provide for emergencies), you can get medicaid. Medicaid is that wonderful program that makes and keeps you poor. You either lose your security, or hide your money and probably go to jail for that as they are really strict. I don't know who does the poverty guidelines for medicaid, but they needed to be updated a decade ago. So jail or homelessness, and the healthplan does nothing to help the two million or so ineligible seniors, again, CITIZENS, or people like yourself. I hope it doesn't pass. It's harder to undo something once it is in place. This is a bad bill, and I also don't see how it keeps costs down, maybe why it is endorsed by AMA.
Fairlight

[Bluerthanblue]

67. i'm not eligible for medicare either Fairlight- and never will be,

even if i were to live until the age requirement was met. (not likely)

If you look up-thread I posted a link for Saracat which is from someone who seems to know the answer to "means tests" for medicaid.- I'm a single mom, and my kids have no one other than me, so when i was faced with having a lien put on our home or not have any health care, i had to choose the latter. My youngest son only has a few years to go till he's 18. I hope to live to see that day-

Please listen to the link- it's encouraging.

EDIT- the link is downthread, sorry- brain fog today.

[Jackpine Radical]

150. Welcome to DU.

And thanks for making those points.

[Nikki Stone1]

40. K & R

.

[Lorien]

41. I'd like to know how those of us who are self employed with pre-existing conditions

are going to get a). insurance and B0. Get the insurance to PAY THE CLAIMS> I haven't heard a peep from the pro-HCR crew about that particular 800 pound gorilla. And if they need to know what I'm talking about then just watch "SiCKO".

[MineralMan]

50. I don't know the answer to that question. I've been self-employed

since 1974, and bought my health insurance in the 80s through an alumni association. I think the current plan will work with the pre-existing condition clause for self-employed people, but i'm not sure when that kicks in. I think it's one of the delayed things.

It doesn't mean that the rate will go down, though, and you may end up in the high-risk pool thing, but that's better than not being able to get insurance, in most cases.

Cost will always be an issue. Even with the Medicare for all, the premiums for those under 65 are going to be substantial, although less than with the private insurers.

Unless we implement a true universal healthcare, funded through taxes, the costs will remain an issue. Even with a tax-supported plan, middle-class people are going to be paying substantial premiums as taxes.

Health care will never be free. We have to pay for it one way or another.

[Lorien]

54. I'm not talking about "costs' or "premiums"

I'm talking about getting SOMETHING for those costs and premiums. The insurance companies fight every damn claim that's submitted and most go unpaid, which is why most of my family left their private practices and many of my doctors don't accept insurance. Where is the part of the bill that says that you will get what you are paying for??

[MineralMan]

56. Again, I can't answer that. It hasn't been a problem for me or my wife.

The claims have been paid, every time, including my bout with viral encephalitis, which involved three weeks in the hospital and lots and lots of very expensive drugs. Paid, except for my 20%, which was substantial, anyhow.

[Lorien]

61. Do you pay for your insurance on your own?

if so, how much and with which insurance company?

[MineralMan]

103. Yes, both my wife and I are freelance writers.

I have Blue Cross. At age 64, it's $720/month. I start Medicare in July.
My wife, who is 54, has Medica, a Minnesota insurance. Her's is $600-something a month. She can't change, since she's uninsurable. One note, though: This is a tax write-off, too, or at least most of it is.
-
Health insurance eats up a big portion of our income. It used to be cheaper when we were younger, but...

When I go on Medicare, we'll have an extra $500/mo. for our living expenses. That will be good.

[Warren Stupidity]

118. I got really sick while self employed and my insurance paid everything.

Of course I had to keep working - as do many of us who are the primary earners and get seriously ill both self employed and working for others. The bill, at least as I understand it, makes it much tougher for insurance companies to refuse to pay. That doesn't mean it won't happen, that doesn't mean the bill is perfect, but it will help.

[Bluerthanblue]

43. well Saracat- this little bit of info gives me SOME hope...

... I've been searching for an answer for you (and myself) and found this.

It's someone from "Families USA" discussing the bill in an interview and she says that "means testing" will be eliminated with this legislation!
have a listen for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRhErKQBdjs&feature=player_embedded#

[saracat]

44. Thank you. I will do so.

[Jamastiene]

45. K&R

[Bluebear]

46. K/R!

[amborin]

47. excellent OP!

(i already rec'd this earlier)

[Edweird]

48. I'm sorry to hear you are in such a tough spot.

[saracat]

49. Thank you. There are many people in exactly the same position.

[BlueIris]

51. Kick.

Very sad situation all around. Best to you and yours, saracat.

[berni_mccoy]

52. If you are living off of savings, then your income must be 0. The plan will subsidize nearly all of

your medical costs.

If you are withdrawing on your 401k then you should be filing your medical expenses (including premiums since you are paying it as an individual) as schedule A. If they are as high as you say, and you are only withdrawing what you need, then you should get a deduction for it now and you should be in a very low income bracket. That being said, you would certainly qualify for subsidies under the new plan and the amount you pay toward your premiums would go down considerably.

It's hard to say exactly how much without knowing your specifics though.

[saracat]

62. Money from investments is calculated as income.And it costs us over the

subsidy level to live.We could reduce that by getting rid of our home, which we have had for 24 years and get rid of one car. And we could drop health insurance and I could stop flying out of state for treatment and just give in to my condition. You can't deduct for claim transportation as medical, though it is necessary to get the treatements. We actually have no real income and yet we will "owe" a considerable amount on taxes this year.

[berni_mccoy]

97. Depends on the account type. Some are tax-deferred, others are not.

I'm assuming it's just you and your spouse? I'll also assume all of your retirement accounts are tax-deffered (let's hope they really aren't). If so, then you'd have to draw more than $60k/year to not qualify for Subsidies on the HCR Bill. Even if you are drawing that, you can still qualify for subsidies under the new HCR Bill. Here's how.

If a majority of your income for withdraw purposes is due to medical, then you are are going far beyond the 7.5% of income that medical expenses are taking from your income. If that is the case, then those expenses would be deductible from your current income under current tax law to determine your gross income. Let's say you are at 10% for medical costs (including premiums). That means 6k of your 60k income are for medical. Well, after the bill, you stop paying that, and your income drops to 54k. You now qualify for subsidies.

[kelly1mm]

122. This is incorrect. Only the amount OVER 7.5% of AGI

for medical expenses is deductible on Schedule A. In your example (60K AGI/6K medicals) only $1500 would be deductible. Further, Schedule A deductions only reduce your AGI to your taxable income (along with your exclusions). They do not directly adjust AGI, which is what most means tested program look to for qualification.

[berni_mccoy]

139. You completely missed the point

She would not have to draw the income in the first place that she is currently spending on Health Care as her health care would be covered with subsidies. This difference would push her into the income bracket that would qualify.

[ChiciB1]

72. But If It's Tax Deferred, Then Withdrawals Will Show Up As Income That

will be taxed! Not only that, if you show you have certain assets you CAN'T qualify for help!

It's not as easy as one would think to "get help" when needed. I just posted last night about my niece who has MS and how hard it was for her to get disability! Even though her doctor clearly provided factual information about her illness, she ended up having to hire a lawyer and it took her 2 1/2 years to finally get approved! She's young, has 2 children and is already using a cane to walk! And she had to FIGHT for help!!

Earlier today I posted a link to a PBS program that showed various cases where the insurance companies were holding citizens hostages. It didn't get much response, but I sure WISH some would have looked at it! It's an eye opener and it gave good examples of why this country is on the WRONG track!

One thing that has bothered me a lot about the mandates is that even though they SAY certain things about how people will be able to get coverage, they don't actually tell you HOW MUCH IT WILL COST!! In the video a couple THOUGHT they were going to be able to afford coverage, but when the rubber hit the road, they found out that it was going to cost MUCH more than what they anticipated.

After I watched that video I was even MORE disturbed by HCR than I was in the beginning. It's been so watered down as it is that I can't help but wonder how much of it will REALLY be of ANY help to MOST of the people it's intended to help!

I think I will find the link and perhaps SOMEONE will look at it1 It's long, but I think after watching it many, many people will understand a little better what's happening right now! And to say WHAT something will do on paper, DOES NOT necessarily mean that it will play out that way!

I choose not to be gullible anymore!!

[ChiciB1]

76. Here's The Link To The Video I Was Referencing!

It's worth watching IMO, but it is long!

http://video.pbs.org/video/1099857730

[ProSense]

53. Medicare doesn't cover dental, and

unless you were taking out more than $43,000 (single) and $88,000 (family) from your retirement income annually, you would qualify for significant subsidies.

[saracat]

63. That isn't true. The subsidy for two adults is something like$ 54, 300,

[ProSense]

65. What isn't true, that:

"unless you were taking out more than $43,000 (single) and $88,000 (family) from your retirement income annually, you would qualify for significant subsidies."

It certainly is true. Also, even if the subsidy for two adults is "$54,300," are you saying you are taking that amount out of your retirement income annully now?

[saracat]

66. Pretty much.That and home equity.

[ProSense]

75. So with more than $4,500 per month from those sources

you say: "health insurance is what is eating our retirement up."

So the bulk of that is going toward health insurance?

It seems that reform will help you tremendously.

[saracat]

78. It won't . Our accountant has already looked into it. Heath insurance is 1600 a mos.

and it is actually more than $4600 a mos but nevermind. I am sure you know best:sarcasm: Perhaps you would like to pick up the tab since you are so certain we will be covered?

[ProSense]

90. Your accountant told you that under health care reform you'll be paying $1,600 per month?

Really?

Solution:

1) 400 percent of the poverty level for couples is $58,200 so if you're income is $4,600 you're still within the subsidy levels.

2) If you aren't, stop raiding your retirement and equity to pay for health insurance. Limit what you take to necessities so that you still qualify for the subsidies.

My guess is that with subsidies you'll be paying considerably less than you do now, and definitely less than $1,600 per month, for a full range of benefits.

[saracat]

100. Really? and when would you suggest I stop doing that? Immediately?

Just stop raiding our accounts? And live on what? Did you miss the little factor about no income? And as for the pre ex, if I do as you say, that little portion doesn't kick in for four years!And what do I pay for prescritptions with?

[ProSense]

105. Before reform and if the bill is killed = status quo

You are going to be dealing with the same issues. After reform, you will get relief.

[saracat]

112. No, apparently I am not.

[laughingliberal]

132. I don't see any relief for a family of 2 at her income level

400% of FPL is $58,280. If your income is more than that, you are pretty well on your own for your premium. With what she's said her income is above the level to qualify for a subsidy.

It's a shame but there really is no help for those of us who are a bit older and just outside the income level which qualifies for a subsidy. And, really, aren't we the ones the insurance companies are trying to avoid, anyway? Mission accomplished. The choices are the same as they are now: go without, pay through the nose, deplete all your savings to impoverish yourself.

edited typo

[avaistheone1]

55. Millions of people who really need affordable health insurance are

being left behind with the health reform bill in its current state.


I know what you are talking about saracat.

[RobinA]

58. People Already

have to live in a box to qualify for MA, so the worst the bill will do is nothing. Sorry you are in this fix, there but through the grace of god go must of the American middle class. The country doesn't seem to want real health care reform at this time.

[sabrina 1]

59. I have been helping two elderly family members with

their medical bills and coverage. You are absolutely right about the fact that there are some drugs, very expensive, that there are no generics for. This couple, both in their eighties, are not poor, they worked hard and invested fairly wisely while they were working.

But, they are on the Medicare D plan. Two of the medications are not available in generic form and as a result cost about $900.00 a month(combinded). They can get their other medications fairly reasonably, but those two put her into the donut hole about two months after they were prescribed. She didn't understand the system and was shocked when she went to pick up her prescription and saw the bill. She paid for half of it and cut the pills in half and we tried to find a solution after that. Her doctor gave her some samples of one of them but that lasted only a few weeks.

She is no longer taking one of them as to pay for them would quickly use up their savings. As I said, they are not poor, but not rich either. So, I can only imagine how many people with even less money there are who are not taking their medications because of the cost.

This bill does not fix this problem. So what good is it even if you can go to the doctor but cannot afford the prescriptions? I was at the hospital yesterday with them for an emergency (he is diabetic) and talked to several people who told me they could not afford their medications.

I'm sorry you are in this position. It is immoral for this to be allowed to continue. Most other countries are able to provide affordable drugs to their citizens. I don't know why they removed the Importation amendment, well I do I suppose.

I don't know the answer anymore. I thought it was voting for Democrats but since that isn't the solution, I wish I could think of an answer.

[Doremus]

130. As I understand it, the bill fills in (part? all of?) the donut hole.

They're taking the Medicare $$ that currently subsidize insurance cos and are using it instead to fill in the donut hole.

Fux News and the repukes are spinning it that Obama is raiding Medicare but it's bullshit like everything else they spew.

[sabrina 1]

141. Thanks I will check that out, although this is the first time

I've heard it.

Edit to add, I have checked it out and am still not clear on what is in the bill. The House apparently wants to close the donut hole, the Senate wants to help with costs incurred after people fall into it.

The president has proposed closing it, but I couldn't find anything verifying which proposals ended up in the bill. Anyhow, I'm glad to see they are addressing it and hope that the President's proposal of closing it completely made it into the bill. I don't know how that would work, it would probably require Big Pharma to make a deal with Medicare for the most expensive drugs.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/summary-presidents-proposal.pdf

Anyhow, thanks for the tip. I will keep looking.

[upi402]

68. I always fall thru the cracks too

I think if you're responsible and hard working you're an enemy of the corporatist state. I feel like such a sucker for playing by the rules.

[David Zephyr]

69. K&R.

!

[truedelphi]

70. I cannot agree enough. If the people in Congress, the Senate & President really

Cared about We the People, the tax code would at least be amended so the deductible status would accure to every single dollar spent on one's health, be it organic millet (to stave off the GMO damage of the bought store corn, rice and wheat now comprise), over the counter pain meds, prescription meds AND HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUM PAYMENTS.

But they cannot do that, because if the average person could deduct those health premiums, Washingtn DC would be out a S___ load of money.

[Tailormyst]

71. People just don't get it

But they will. After more jobs and lives are destroyed as were by nafta, they will finally get it. There will be no "fixes". I hope somehow things can get better for you Sara.

[balantz]

74. You're right Saracat, this whole scam being thrown at us is nothing short

of more corporate pocket stuffing. There is hardly even a sliver of a bone tossed out anymore when the government and their corporate masters take care of themselves.

Anything short of socialized medicine is garbage. We should stand our ground there and accept nothing other than socialized medicine.

[ChiciB1]

79. Now There's A Name I Haven't Seen In Quite Some Time! Balantz!

I assume you're still blogging though! You may not remember me, but I remember you!
:hi:

[balantz]

86. Hi chiciB!

Nice to bump into you. I rarely stop in here anymore.

:toast:

[ChiciB1]

120. I Think I Know Where To Find You... May Connect Again Soon! n/t

[L0oniX]

77. Living in a box is a luxury for homeless people.

[upi402]

82. k/r n/t

[Capitalocracy]

83. What's the point of being able to go to the doctor if you can't take the medication

they recommend?

[slipslidingaway]

84. knr - nothing that I seen ...

:hug:

[Truth2Tell]

85. K&R nt

[Raine]

87. K&R

Not everyone fits into some easy "slot". I don't know what happens to those of us who don't.

[saracat]

89. I guess we just die.Broke.LOL and here I thought it was the GOP who

said that!

[ShortnFiery]

91. K & R.

More people than who would like to admit it here are only one to a few paychecks from falling into debt and without help, impending bankruptcy.

We need to work together in a sense of community. Starting locally, we can expand our efforts to assist those who have been forgotten and/or ignored by our present government.

As the old but true adage goes, "There but for the Grace of God ..." :grouphug:

[emilyg]

92. k/r

[Nikki Stone1]

107. .

.

[Mike 03]

96. Well, I have no job to speak of, technically, and I do own my own home

but with no mortgage, have no insurance, and am really praying to holy god that this bill passes so I can get health care without embarrassment.

[Maraya1969]

98. You won't lose your house because of sky rocketing costs, premiums and mostly caps.

These issues are all taken care of in the reform. The ban on coverage caps is one of the most important because that is where people lose their houses.

[saracat]

101. Perhaps you need to read the bill again. that isn't quite true.

[Maraya1969]

99. You will be covered by the indigent program and your health costs will be nothing or next to nothing

[grahamhgreen]

136. If they have assets they are not indigent

[w4rma]

102. Since the goal is to take everything that Americans own and give it to Billionares, the Saudi Royal

Family and China, everything is going according to plan.

[glinda]

106. You sound exactly like us! Exactly! Except I cannot work due to needing surgery Insurance

will not cover! We too have Vet Bills from the poisoning! I am going to email you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

108. I wonder why we can't just do health care the way the rest of developed world does it

its much better than health insurance.

[Kablooie]

109. All you have to do is get a job, you lazy bum! (paid for by your local tea baggers.)

[saracat]

111. Ain't that the truth! How can we tell the difference these days? Love your sig!

[lwcon]

113. K&R

One fine point, though. This bill is Obama's concept of "HCR," not IMHO actual "HCR." So, if it were my post I'd say "ObamaCare" or "the HCR bill." Just a nit.

Best of luck to you and your family!

[marshall]

114. It's about collective benefit, not individual

Folks as a whole, including those with not jobs who own their homes who are living off 401Ks, will benefit from a more healthy society. While a few people will get less than they have now, more people will be at the table so it's a good thing overall.

[mzmolly]

115. You'll qualify for medicaid most likely.

Check the KFF calculator and let us know how things turn out. It's an income based system so your assets shouldn't matter.

http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx

[Child_Of_Isis]

124. Assets may not matter concerning medicaid...

but they may put a lien on her home.

[mzmolly]

134. I don't think

that will happen with the expansion bill.

[saracat]

125. Money derived from investments counts as income even if you are depleting your retirement.

[mzmolly]

133. Modified adjusted gross is what's used to determine

your qualifications from what I've read. Do you have link for more info the investment language?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

162. In NY, if you're 55 or over, Medicaid will lien your estate when you die.

[waiting for hope]

117. K&R

I rec'd ya earlier so here is the kick. Here is an excellent companion piece to your OP:

A reminder of what $10 an hour looks like .. I think of this every time I see an elderly individual working as a greeter at Wal-Mart and wonder how they are getting by. Most of these individuals are only working 30 hours - which makes them ineligible for their health care plan (my next door neighbor works for Wal-Mart so anyone is welcome to challenge that, I know it's true) and probably only making $10 an hour. I really don't know how some of this crap from the bill can be justified.

[nightrain]

119. knr.

[Ms. Toad]

121. Assuming it is treated as income

for purposes of eligibility for subsidies, what you are drawing out may be low enough that you are still eligible for free or reduced price coverage.

(I have not checked to see what the definition of income is - so I don't know if withdrawals from retirement funds are treated as income for purposes of this test).

[saracat]

126. They are and I have.

[Dinger]

128. Good Fucking Question. K & R

:hi:

[Nikki Stone1]

137. Hee

:hi:

[Dinger]

144. Howdy!

:hi: :patriot:

[Nikki Stone1]

168. I'll take your patriot

and raise you a :loveya:

[laughingliberal]

129. Kick nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

135. As the person with the home, and my husband's life insurance

and the preexisting condition... I don't know.

[boppers]

138. No job, too young to qualify for medicare?

Am I reading that right?

You got rich, retired early, and are upset that there aren't enough benefits for the young rich?

[saracat]

151. Got rich? You consider being "outsourced " after 24 years "retiring?"

My husband was 2 years short of being vested with health insurance.I am flattered that you consider us "young rich" since no employer wants to hire either of us because of our age and it is worse now aswere younger and I didn't have a health condition when we first started looking for work.And now of course, since our retirement will be gone, should we ever get another job we will NEVER be able to retire. But since they aren't YOUR problems, you really don't care about the many millions of us who won't be covered by this at all.Obviously you see people having to be brought to their knees for no reason at all as a good thing.I am so grateful that all our working for years will amount to nothing though we did all the right things.Maybe one day you will be able to "retire" in the same manner we have.

[LibDemAlways]

165. Young people have no clue how hard it is to get a job after 50.

Employers don't even respond to resumes of well qualified applicants when they see a lot of experience on there. Most job listings are looking for people with two or three years experience. It's a goddamned joke. My husband was let go in Jan. after 20 years with the company. He's 59 and our daughter will be starting college next year. He has to work. We both have to work. He's an expert at what he does, has sent out dozens of resumes, made dozens of phone calls, contacted everybody he knows, and.......crickets. Fortunately because he was with the company for twenty years he is eligible for some (really shitty) retiree health benefits. I'm just hoping the company doesn't phase them out anytime soon.

Anyone who criticizes you has clearly never been in your shoes. I wish the government cared about people in your situation. Clearly they don't. In the "greatest country in the world" you are on your own.

[Captain Hilts]

143. If you become impoverished, HCR can help you. Same with me. nt

[Echo In Light]

146. k/r

(...guess I hadn't ;) )

[mmonk]

147. It doesn't for many of people, especially those over 50 but younger than 65

who do not "qualify" for help. There isn't anything to blunt the expensive brand name drugs not yet generic. There is nothing for people on fixed incomes but have "too much", and depend on that income to live and have enough for "healthcare". All they can do is watch what they worked hard for slowly dwindle until they "qualify".

[backtomn]

153. I have a few years to go, but......

this is not becoming a great country to be between 50 and 65. Hopefully the climate will improve. We will all be in that boat some day.

[mmonk]

158. It's really gotten tough the last ten years.

I'm having to recalibrate everything. People will hire us but usually without benefits. Many have had to take severance packages and be rehired as consultants so companies don't have to pay benefits. It was just the opposite for my parent's generation (WW II).

[LibDemAlways]

166. My husband is 59. Recently let go after 20 years with the company.

He is eligible for some really crappy "retiree" health insurance coverage and has been actively looking for work. Finally got a call yesterday for a short-term consulting gig - big cut in pay and no benefits. Have a feeling that's the way of the world these days. Get rid of the expensive older people who know what the hell they're doing and then bring them back to clean up the messes made by the inexperienced newcomers when they screw up.

[Donnachaidh]

148. you noticed that little requirement of being dirt poor to get help, huh?

What an easy way to keep chronically ill people under the boot heel. :puke:

[backtomn]

152. Don't feel sorry for me, but....

I am out of work and own a home. The job market is tough and I don't need an additional expense to deal with. My preference, of course, is that Obama dealt with the economy first, but I guess he saw an opportunity. I don't want help, but I don't want the government to add to my difficulty......at least now. I am sure that I am not alone and hope that Obama will eventually keep his promise to do something, anything about the economy. I support HCR, but I am not certain how this will hurt me in the end.

[mdmc]

155. Passing HCR is a feather in Obama's cap and a black eye for the GOP

[sabrina 1]

156. Well, that's nice, if it was a contest between Democrats

and Republicans for a trophy of some kind. If that's all our government is about, a political game to see who wins. The Iraq war was a feather in Bush's cap. But it didn't much for anyone other than Defense Contractors.

But this was about a right that has been denied to the American people, not about individual politicians. It was such an important issue that it was worth fighting to do what was right even if it meant being a one-term president. But as you say, it was more important to score points for a Democrat. We know that now.

[Jakes Progress]

160. Yeah. Screw principles.

And screw working for the good of people. Just as long as we get to say we won. That's all that matters.

[Mimosa]

159. Saracat, I understand exactly what you mean

Sweet lady, congress hasn't helped us except to the degree they feel pushed. They will pay. Our only hope is that they are doing something and that it can be improved and built upon.

If you live anywhere near a dental school you may be able to get high quality supervised treatments for free. Check into it.

*big hug* And I will send my positive energy your way, always.