Detroit—a model for nationwide assault on public education

[Hannah Bell]

On Wednesday, the Detroit Public Schools released a plan to close 45 facilities by June, bringing the number of schools closed in the city to more than 100 since 2006. This amounts to nearly half of the total number of public schools. Another 13 schools would be closed by 2012...

Bobb is also working closely with a series of philanthropic organizations to expand charter schools in Detroit....

The Detroit Schools and other school districts justify the destruction of schools by citing declining enrollment, but this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The closing of schools will increase the drop-out rate while also driving more students into charter schools, many of which are controlled by business interests with close ties to the Detroit political establishment.

The collapse of enrollment has in fact proceeded at a far more rapid pace than the decline in the population as a whole. A report in Crain’s Detroit Business noted, “While the city has lost roughly half its population in the last fifty years, decline in the DPS has dropped by almost half in the last eight years, dropping from 164,496 in the 2002-03 school year to 87,754 in the current year…”

The city expects a decline of 30,000 over the next five years. In other words, by 2015 the number of students in the public school system is expected to be about a third of what it was at the beginning of the century.

As if to underscore his hope that many students will leave the public school system, Bobb said that high school students will have to take the city bus to attend schools that will now be located much further from their homes...

Bobb’s proposal for schools to be shut down was drawn up in coordination with plans announced by Detroit Mayor David Bing to significantly downsize Detroit, including shutting down of city services in the most impoverished areas...

Bing has also indicated that he is seeking to privatize city services, including selling the Public Lighting Department to DTE Energy...

As part of his plan to slash services, there are indications that the mayor is seeking to deliberately undercount Detroit’s population in the coming census. According to a recent article in the Wall Street Journal (“Detroit’s Smaller Reality: Mayor Plans to Use Census Tally Showing Decline as a Benchmark in Overhaul,” February 27), “The mayor is looking to the diminished tally, down from 951,270 in 2000, as a benchmark in his bid to reshape Detroit’s government, finances and perhaps even its geography to reflect its smaller population and tax base. That means, in part, cutting city services and laying off workers.”

The city is making no effort to try to ensure a full population count, instead allowing nonprofit groups to take the lead. However, the Journal notes, “with a population that is widely dispersed and largely poor and minority—two segments traditionally disinclined to fill out government paperwork—Detroit is already difficult to count.”

“With no high-profile census push, the city risks an undercount that would mean forgoing millions of dollars in federal funding.”

The corporate elite that runs Detroit would more than make up for the loss of federal funding through the slashing of city services and the ever more naked subordination of the city’s population to the profit demands of big business.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/mar2010/detr-m19.shtml

[vadawg]

1. if there are not enough students for all the schools what do you propose they do

just keep the empty schools open, or m0ove students so that every school is operating at 50% or whatever the average is. The city is dieing or already dead and the schools are just one part, make the city physical space smaller so its easier to give services to the people still there and sell the rest of teh land to either industry or the surrounding areas if they want space to grow into. Anything has to be better than the city slowly dwindling to nothing, unless you want to physically force the people who left to come back..

[rpannier]

If you read the whole article the author points out

that they are closing schools, because of dwindling enrollment yet they seem to be able to open new ones under the control of charters.

[vadawg]

6. yeah and that changes the fact that enrollment in the public schools is down in what way

there are still to many schools for the number of pupils enrolling, so what do you do, keep empty schools open of consolidate them.. looks like parents are making the choices to send their kids to the charter schools and not the public schools,

[rpannier]

8. Why not refurbish or build new public schools?

I guess that's not an option

[vadawg]

10. well it dosent look like the people want to send their kids to any of the public schools

what happens if you do your plan and the numbers keep falling, unless you are going to force people to come back to both the city and the schools then they are going to have to consolidate..

[rpannier]

12. Maybe people like new facilities

Because of cheap s.o.b.'s who care little for the inner cities, most infrastructure (including many buildings) have fallen into decay

If they provided new buildings and fully funded them (like using the 10 billion they've given away to states to promote private for profit Charter Schools) maybe people would be happier if their kids went there

But since we have a Secretary of Education who is pushing the private sector is God in everything we'll probably never know.

[vadawg]

15. lots of assumptions, parents ae not going to chance their kids futures on maybys

if they hear good things in the grapevine about certain charters then they are going to flock to them, and promising to refurb the vcrappy school they are trying to escape from isnt going to make them stay...

[rpannier]

18. Lots of assumptions on your part

Maybe you should consider reading the posts by screamingmeanie since they are originally from that area

Of course, that may throw cold water on your assumptions

[vadawg]

19. no assumptions, seems the facts are parents are taking their kids out of the public schools

the public schools have less kids and no longer need to have as many schools, so they are closing them, can you tell me what the assumption is here..

[rpannier]

23. *Beats head on desk 1000 times*

Your assumption is that they are taking their kids out because they are enamored with sending their kids to Charter Schools

You go find people in the area and ask them, then you are in a position to state the reasons why the parents are doing so

Until you have done so, you have no idea why they are moving their kids short of guess work

[vadawg]

24. no i am saying that the parents prefer the charters to the publlic schools which is obvious

due to the fact they are removing them, it dosent matter whatever the reason is is a fact that they are doing it,

[Hannah Bell]

29. no, gee, i guess if they close my kid's neighborhood school & tell him he has to take a city bus

(that's had service cutbacks) to a different one miles away, in a different gang territory, that has nothing to do with it.

detroit has already closed more than 50 schools in the last 5 years. most kids in the system have gone through a closure.

it's a good way to get people to "choose" what the ptb want them to "choose".

one of many, i might add.

they're closing 45 public schools and opening 70 charter schools. they're building new facilities for charters with public money & letting most of the public schools rot.

[vadawg]

33. jeez i guess if the neighbourhood school was built for 700 and only has 50 kids in it

they should just keep it open, in the end its going to come down to numbers and detroit is losing numbers..

[Hannah Bell]

36. jeez, if i get to make up any numbers i want, i can compose any scenario.

there is no school for 700 with 50 kids in it.

[vadawg]

38. no but you did give the example of the school with half enrollment is that a good enough example.

[Hannah Bell]

46. I don't see a big problem with operating a school built for a max of 500 for 300

students. Especially when the school is a high-performing school, as the one in the example is.

I mean, it's all about the children, right? Right? RIGHT?

[vadawg]

49. yup its is, but when it unaffordable and you cant get the funds then what

these things are not in a vaccumm, right right?

[Hannah Bell]

59. you seem somehow always to miss the fact THE DISTRICT IS BUILDING NEW CHARTER SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

you're a complete waste of time. toodles.

[Bill McBlueState]

72. sending your kid to an upstart charter school

is exactly what I think of when I hear the phrase "chance your kid's future on a maybe"

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. Charters with corporate donors

Just imagine what our public schools could do if they all had a corporate donor.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. The people are still there. They are enrolling their children

in many of the tons of charter schools that have sprung up across the city.

[bluestateguy]

2. If they didn't have so many dropouts and derelict parents this would be a less serious problem

That;s one of the whiniest, most victimologist columns I've ever read.

[Hannah Bell]

3. ah, those blue-staters. always ready to play the "whiner" card.

how do we tell them & the wingers apart?

[Bluebear]

57. You said it.

[rpannier]

4. As the article points out

They can open new charter schools while closing public schools because of dwindling enrollment

You must have missed that

[vadawg]

7. so it means people are chosing charter schools, if the public schools suck who wouldnt

and now there are too many public schools so they need to close the empty ones down and move students or what do you suggest..

[rpannier]

9. Build new public schools

And tell the charter school business interests to rot

[vadawg]

11. what if the parents want the charter schools, seems they have too many publlic schools at the moment

i guess its the parents call and what they want to do..

[rpannier]

13. I can see I'm arguing with a 6 percenter

It's not worth it any more

[vadawg]

17. rofl, ah the old retreat and hide

tell me why the parents shouldnt decide, and if they decide to leave why should half empty schools be left open, give me one good reason..

[rpannier]

22. There's no retreat and hide

I have responded to your posts on both the top and the bottom

Screamingmeamie who is originally from the area has a better understanding of the area than you or I do

Your posts are based on your own assumptions with nothing to back them up, as are mine.
You don't know anyone in Detroit, so you have no way of knowing what their motivations are.
It's just guess work.

But you seem willing to demean others posts as if you are an expert on the situation.

You also seem content with letting the government turn education over to private entities (businesses) to educate children.

[Hannah Bell]

39. he's down with the whole winger thing. in every respect.

[vadawg]

41. unlike yourself who dosent think that there should be any options for parents apart from what you

want, that always seeems to be the major argument between us, you believe that public school is the only answer whereas i believe that the final decision is the parents.... but if it makes you feel better to go to the shallow end then feel free..

[Hannah Bell]

47. This isn't an OPTION, IT'S A FORCED MARCH.

To the "choice" that wingers prefer.

[vadawg]

50. what the parental choice,

[Hannah Bell]

53. There WERE no charters in detroit until 2005. That year they closed about 40 schools.

And they've been closing them ever since. This latest action will bring the total to 140.

SOME FUCKING "CHOICE".

[vadawg]

55. i think you just made a very good point, there were no charters so the school enrollments were

dropping even then, you dont seem to get the fact that if there are not enough kids then you have to close schools, its just not viable to run any system that way.. especially in a city that is dying like detroit is.. and as to choice well at least now it seems they do have some choices with charters coming in, it might not be the choice you would go for, but then again you are not every parent..

[Hannah Bell]

61. no, the closures preceded the charters. toodles.

[vadawg]

63. that was the point, the closures were before the charters, therefore the numbers where dropping

therefore the schools were closing due to the numbers dropping and not the charters..

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. It's a person with no first hand knowledge digging a hole filled

with ignorance. He/she knows it, but can't back down.

It is disgusting, the situation. The taxes. The parents who have begged and pleaded for their schools. The indifference. The huge taxes they're still forced to pay, all while driving a child, sometimes miles across town, to a school that still has a spot open. And not always a good school at that.

[vadawg]

26. ah so every person who has removed their kids from public school has done it for one reason

no there are a myriad of reasons, i am open to what your idea would be when as the city has stated there are too many schools for the number of kids, do you advocate forcing parents to make their kids attend publilc schools in order to increase the numbers, what about people who have left detroit like yourself should you have to move back to increase the tax base, in the end it comes down to simple math, when you have twice as much capacity than you need, and not enough money to keep the capacity then you need to half your capacity..

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. That is the main reason. Until you either read up on the situation

or take a visit, you don't have anything to base your completely obtuse and say-it-just-to-be-in-contention opinion.

Why did I leave Detroit? My husband died and the memories were slowly killing me.

thanks for asking.


If I posted a thread entitled No, you would post yes, correct?

Back up, realize you've screwed up and move on.

[vadawg]

30. i didnt ask, i simply stated that the population of the city has dwindled and unless you force peopl

to come back the city is going to get smaller and the school system will get smaller, at the moment the school system is to big or are the numbers lying, and its to big for whatever reason so you need to pare it down or you are throwing dwindling funds into a money pit..

[ScreamingMeemie]

32. READ.

[Hannah Bell]

37. it's the 11th-biggest city in the country.

[vadawg]

40. and, how does that effect the fact that its population is half of what it was

and the tax base is dwindling etc etc....

[Hannah Bell]

45. Do the math. They've closed about half the schools in the city IN FIVE YEARS.

The population didn't go down by half in the last five years.

And if there was the will, smaller facilities could almost certainly be found in the lower-population areas -- SINCE THE FUCKING CHARTERS ARE EVIDENTALLY ABLE TO FIND THEM & HAVE THE DISTRICT PAY THROUGH THE NOSE FOR THEM.

[vadawg]

52. mayby not the population as a whole but obviously the school population dropped a shitload

i got a question for you, answer honestly if every child could be taught online by just one teacher per grade across america from home, and achieve better results than we get now would you support giving all the kids a laptop and free broadband if it meant we close every school across america and we only needed say 15 teachers, or is it not really about the kids...

edited due to freudian slip indealing with other poster :)

[Hannah Bell]

54. "as a shole" (quoting your post) i'd say you're scripted.

[vadawg]

56. good catch, but can you answer the question, i do not believe you can honestly

[Hannah Bell]

58. what question is that, "as a shole"? (quoting you once more)

[vadawg]

60. post 52, the hypothetical, as i get the impression that you care more about the system than the kids

[Hannah Bell]

62. lol. you're the one who favors closing down the successful school because the building it's in

was built for a maximum capacity of 500 instead of 300.

i get the impression you care more about the privatization agenda than the kids.

[vadawg]

64. so you cant answer teh question then, i think it tells a lot

ill answer it, i dont care what system is used as long as it gets the best results, so therefore if it means we only have 15 teachers and use the money saved to give a laptop and broadband then we go for it, can you answer the question..

[Hannah Bell]

65. you're the one who wants to close a successful school. i think you want privatized

schools and don't give a good goddamn about any detroit kids.

i think that says a lot.

[vadawg]

66. your the one who seems to care more about the system than the results

can you answer the hypothetical question, i think an honest broker could easily do it.. and i dont want to close it but i understand why they are closing it, if my kid went there i would not be happy either, but with falling numbers they are going to have to cut schools..

[hack89]

79. It use to be the fourth largest. nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. Are you really that obtuse?

Do me a favor and look up "Detroit Public Schools".

As a preface, I moved from MI (where I was a real estate appraiser) to Texas.

The people of Detroit wanted a public school system that worked, not the corrupt system they were given. The Public school system they wished for was destroyed by fat cats and carpet baggers...all on their, very high, taxes.

Instead of neighborhood schools or busing to schools, they have what's left...equally (sometimes) poorly run charter schools that are sometimes quite a drive. It's not a fix. The parents called for reform a decade and a half ago. And no one listened. Now they're doing what they have to do. Not because they "want" to.

[vadawg]

16. you do realise that whether they wanted a public school system that worked or not

they didnt get it so now they are looking elsewhere, do you really think that parents will put up for a decade or so of crap schools and then not jump at the chance at something they think is better, whether they want to or have to is irrelevant, they are doing it and in droves, do you really think the public schools in detroit are suddenly going to get better overnight or should the parents just tough it out in the system for another decade, afterall its only their kids we are talking about..

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. Yes. I get to say I do. Because I talked with them on a daily basis.

They really want their public school system back. That is a no brainer. Do you know how much it sucks to cart your kid across town and still pay horrendous property taxes.

I think you need to back up and realize when you've dug the hole a bit too deep.

They are not "jumping at a chance", they are taking a crappy option while still paying through the nose.

Please run the search before you post more silliness.

[vadawg]

28. no you are missing the point, yes they may be taking a crappy option but obviously they see the publ

public schools as even crappier or they would still send their kids there, yes they are paying horrendous property taxes in order to support a school system that is bigger than they currently need as well.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. They are asking for their schools back? They are forced to send their

kids to schools that are farther away (in many cases) without much change due to the fact the schools in their neighborhoods, where they want to stay, are closing.

If you don't get it now, you're a waste of time. The system is forcing them out, not the other way around. I am begging you to read up on the situation.

[vadawg]

42. okay they want their schools back, then they need to pay more for them

especially if the schools are going to operate at lower numbers, people have got to realise that detroit has halved its population, and more people are leaving and taking their tax dollars with them, how much are they willing to pay to have that local school stay open..

[Hannah Bell]

34. their taxes are supporting the crappy charter schools as well.

and the new charter school facilities.

and the inflated salaries for charter school administrators.

and the new ones are going to be for profit.

[Hannah Bell]

25. They're closing highly-rated schools.

e.g.:

Carstens Elementary students head for the playground Wednesday. Carstens is a high-performing school, but is to close because it sits in an underpopulated area. It has 285 students in a school that can hold 526.

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20100318&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=3180374&Ref=AR&Profile=1322&MaxW=320&MaxH=300&Q=100&mime=jpeg


They're going to put elementary school kids in the same buildings with high school kids.

They're going to make them take city busses to their new school assignments (no school busses) & even city bus service has been cut back.

They're going to mix kids from different gang territories (again).

They're building NEW FACILITIES FOR CHARTERS with city money.

What a recipe for disenrollment, couldn't ask for better.

http://detnews.com/article/20100317/SCHOOLS/3170354/School-closure-plan-dovetails-with-Detroit-s-downsizing-effort.

[vadawg]

35. bingo there you go, the school is operating at half capacity, how long should it stay open

what if another 100 kids leave, what about then..

[Hannah Bell]

48. It's a high-performing school. I don't see a problem with keeping it open at half-capacity.

Especially when the city is proposing to levy new taxes OR BORROW MORE MONEY TO BUILD NEW FACILITIES FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS.

[Gaedel]

67. Detroit School Buses

Historically, Detroit has not had school buses.

If you were going to your assigned school and the distance was beyond the prescribed walking distance, they used chartered city buses for the school bus. When I went to 7th and 8th grades at Andrew Jackson Intermediate in Detroit, we were picked up at bus stops by the chartered city bus operating on a school bus schedule and dedicated to the carrying of the students. After delivering the students to the school, the bus returned to its place in the equipment scheme running regular city routes. At school dismissal, a city bus, under charter, would be waiting at the school with a cardboard "bus no. 7" sign in the window to take us back to our bus stop for the short walk home. These bus stops were not the normal city bus stops and while we were on the bus, the bus did not carry any normal bus passengers. The bus just made the various stops at the student pickup points, then headed for the school.

[Hannah Bell]

75. oh, is that so? hmm, the news says different.

Detroit To Outsource School Bus Service

Bobb says the 289 bus drivers and 59 other transportation workers can apply for jobs with the two new companies. The district also will sell its bus fleet for $5.1 million

http://www.wwj.com/pages/6425724.php?contentType=4&contentId=5631560


DPS to sell off its school buses
Privatizing service to save $50.5 million

http://www.freep.com/article/20100224/NEWS01/2240421/DPS-to-sell-off-its-school-buses



nice try, 41-post person

[Go2Peace]

43. Rec'd just to counter VaDawg's attempt to control the discussion

[vadawg]

44. rofl ill kick it as well

[ScreamingMeemie]

76. Well look at that, he's been eternally silenced.

You spew enough bs, it eventually flies back in your face.

[WCGreen]

51. Well, they'll always have Greek Town, the Tigers and the Pistons...

Don't the Lions now play somewhere off in the Suburbs...

[Gaedel]

68. No

The Lions moved back into the city and the Pistons are out in the suburbs.

[WCGreen]

69. Got 'em switched...

[Bill McBlueState]

71. this is exactly what's going on down I-75 in Toledo

on a smaller scale, but still.

[Romulox]

73. Detroit schools are an absolute disaster. The status quo isn't an option. nt

[LWolf]

77. And this is going to improve things...how?

It's amazing to me the number of people who get excited at "drastic" action when that action isn't going to make anything any better.

[salin]

78. Detroit schools are an anomoly (I hope) and not a bellweather. I worked with DPS in the early 90s

and even back then the graduation rate was less than 1 in 3. And in 1991, only 1 in 3 seniors passed the graduation exam (given the first time in sophomore year - and based on 9th grade standards.) It was a crisis. And long before charters or private management companies came on to the scene. While I have no idea about the pass rate of grad exams in recent years (I no longer teach there - have moved a couple of times since) - it still has the worse graduation rate in the country.

I don't have the solution. Even after I left teaching in Detroit I have followed it. I have parayed for improvements - but there have been few. Reading about the situation that led to the call for state intervention that led to Bob - has made my stomache churn. A surplus went to millions of a deficit. Contracts that were no bid, and no oversight, while kids were under served.

There may be many situations that serve as a call to arms per privatization and manipulation to force privatization of schools. I find Diane Ravitch's writings, given her previous positions and rightwing stands on issues of education far more compelling. Detroit schools are tragic - and only seem to have gotten worse in the paslt twenty years since I worked there.

How many of you would chose to send your child to a high school where the rate of attaining a diploma is less than 1 in 3? I don't have answers - but I will NOT take this tragedy as an example of why we should keep things as they are (in this system.) Because to do so is to accept that we should accept that only 1 in 3 kids entering 9th grade should be able to graduate. I can not accept that. At the same time - having worked with other distressed urban districts - I know that many public systems do far much better. That is, I don't take Detroit Public Schools as a generalization for other systems.

[LWolf]

80. I would choose to institute fundamental changes that would

actually help the situation, if it were up to me. Closing, firing, and privatizing is not the answer.

But it's the solution on the table.

Sounds familiar; the most constructive, positive changes never make it to "the table."

[Max Stein]

74. It's happening everywhere

we look.