Who put the mandate in HCR...?

[LeftHander]

I want a name. Thx.

[scheming daemons]

1. Who put the bomp In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?

Who put the ram in the rama lama ding dong?

[SoFlaJet]

6. LMAO

I wanted to post the same thing BWAHAha

[tridim]

7. Who was that man? I'd like to shake his hand.

Kind of ashamed that I know that lyric. :)

[Romulox]

2. President Obama. It is the centerpiece of the entire scheme. nt

[LeftHander]

4. really....?

Or did it come from a anonymous Republican as a result of a backroom deal...

[Romulox]

5. Yes, really. Without mandatory insurance, there is no bill. It is the lynchpin.

And Republicans aren't supporting this bill, so its unpopular features may not be blamed on Republicans, sorry.

This is President Obama's mandatory corporate insurance bill--he's staked his Presidency on it.

[daa]

10. November is going to be very interesting

this is one of the few elections where their is a definite difference of opinion and the public has their strong positions as well. So far the dems haven't been able to put lipstick on the pig and sell it.

[Romulox]

11. That's because "mandatory private insurance" is a much stronger frame than anything they've got. nt

[LibDemAlways]

21. The posters on here who are expecting the public to heartily embrace this

thing and reward the Dems for it are going to be very sad the morning after the midterm.

[Hello_Kitty]

28. They're clueless.

Their response to pointing out that it's unpopular is "la la la I'm not listening!"

[LibDemAlways]

29. The public still hasn't been told what's in the bill. If it were any good

the Dems would be shouting it from the rooftops.

The White House has put out a totally misleading video ad for this travesty which states that 30 million will "get" insurance under this bill. What it fails to mention is that those 30 million will be forced to enrich the coffers of a bunch of crooks in the process. The Christian Science Moniter published an article today about what's in the bill. The first thing they mention is the mandate. When the public finds out they've been had, it's not going to be pretty.

[Hello_Kitty]

30. Actually, 15 million of the 30 will go on Medicaid.

Which could have been accomplished without mandating the rest to buy private insurance.

[daa]

46. Well we are cutting Medicaid here in Georgia so good

luck adding more people.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. This, AFTER he campaigned against a mandate, which was the

linchpin of Clinton's health care plan. He argued that a mandate without an option for government backed insurance - you could call that medicare for all, or a public option - would be nothing but a giveaway to the insurance companies.

He convinced me. That's why I still oppose this new plan of his.

[Echo In Light]

3. Someone who is obviously slavishly obedient to their corporate pay masters

[grantcart]

8. I did

I happily take credit for applying the basic foundation of universal coverage that every economist agrees is necessary once you take away an insurance companies' right to choose its clients. Once you say that a company must take a customer and cannot charge extra for a preexisting condition then you have 'regulatory adverse selection' and the system will collapse without universal coverage.

Explained yesterday (for the 1000th time) in more detail here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7952599&mesg_id=7952694

[Gman2]

9. pre-existing condition did.

[Orangepeel]

12. Hillary Clinton?

How about Paul Krugman? Those aren't the only names possible, but I guess they'll do. The mandate isn't a republican idea.

[muffin1]

14. Hillary Clinton?

What?

[Orangepeel]

31. The major difference between Obama and Clinton's HC plans during the primary was mandates

She was for them, he was against them. He says he's changed his mind for the reasons that she and other left leaning people (e.g., Paul Krugman) advocated them earlier -- pre-existing conditions, spread the risk, etc.

I'm not rehashing the primaries -- I supported Obama -- but them's the facts.

[muffin1]

36. I know she was for them during the primaries.

It sounded as though you were saying she was consulted, or that you were rehashing the primaries by saying he got that brilliant idea from her.

Sorry, I'm a little touchy these days...:-)

[Orangepeel]

39. No worries. The OP wanted a name so I gave him/her one

Obama got traction in the primary from not supporting mandates, but that doesn't make them a republican idea.

:-)

[Sebastian Doyle]

43. No, it's still a Republican idea.

Everything that comes from the DLC is a Republican idea. It's all they know.

[Lorien]

13. The health insurance corporation's lobbyists, obviously

who helped fund many a campaign, including Obama's.

[midnight]

15. Yes, that would be good to know.

[ipaint]

16. Karen Ignagni on behalf of her clients. nt

[ehrnst]

17. Because there was no way to get universal participation via single payer...

One of the reasons that single payer works is that everyone is in - via paying through tax.

In order to control costs, you must have everyone participating (larger pool = lower costs per fish). In order to do that, you need to mandate it - either through taking it out of everyone's paycheck, or require them to buy it.

Without those three (cost controls, universal buy - in, and help for those who need help to buy in) legs, the health reform stool collapses.

Unless you go single payer, then mandates are needed.

This is the way universal coverage is done in Switzerland & the Netherlands:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2009/Jan/The-Swiss-and-Dutch-Health-Insurance-Systems--Universal-Coverage-and-Regulated-Competitive-Insurance.aspx

[LibDemAlways]

19. The mandate will be immediately challenged in the courts.

The constitutionality of requiring the public to purchase the product of a private corporation under penalty of law will be one for the judges to decide.

[ehrnst]

23. Auto insurance is mandated in many states - In VA if you aren't insured, then you pay $500. nt

[Romulox]

24. 1) States and the Federal gov't are different actors, with different powers; 2) Driving is optional.

The US Constitution lays out different powers for State and Federal governments. Auto insurance mandates are issued by the States, not the Federal government. Nor is auto insurance mandatory for all.

[ehrnst]

25. True, however, you can opt out of buying health insurance by paying a tax.

So that's not forcing you to buy a private policy, under "penalty of law."

You can opt to pay (or not pay) a tax.

[Romulox]

26. A fine, lien, or imprisonment are all "penalties of tthe law". A "fine" and a "tax"

are conceptually distinct.

[LibDemAlways]

27. The "tax" is a fine collected by the feds for failure to comply.

No way to get around that being under penalty of law. It's written into the legislation. According to an article in today's Christian Science Moniter, by 2016 the fine will be $695 per family member to a max of $2095.00. Cheaper than exorbitant premiums, but still a big chunk of change.

[Orangepeel]

32. It's a tax you have to pay unless you have private health insurance

nothing unusual about that. There are currently tax exemptions if you purchase something, such as a house our a hybrid car.

[LibDemAlways]

34. It's a fine for not purchasing private health insurance. It's penalizing people

for refusing to hand over their hard earned dollars to crooks who are going to give them shitty "coverage" with big co-pays and deductibles.

This bill is going to be a giant albatross around the necks of the Dems in Nov. That mandate may well sink them.

[Orangepeel]

35. tomato, tomahto

If it's enforced through the IRS, it's a tax. Whether or not it is an albatross, is a different question.

[CreekDog]

18. Hillary supported a mandate, John Edwards too --all in their plans

Obama didn't before but now does.

so basically, the mandate was supported by a lot of big names.

[kenny blankenship]

38. And Barack Obama ridiculed them for it.

to get our votes.

[CreekDog]

40. he didn't ridicule them for it

my goodness, just can't report things as they actually are --gotta embellish! :eyes:

yes, he criticized that part of their plans, but he was respectful while doing so.

[kenny blankenship]

42. Oh yes he did. He said that was like mandating homeless people all buy a house to end homelessness

Candidate Obama Opposed Senate's Health Care Mandates:
"If a mandate was the solution, we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody buy a house," he said on a CNN morning show on Super Tuesday during the election. "

[Sebastian Doyle]

44. You could post a YouTube clip of him saying those exact words

and the pom pom squad would still deny he said it. :crazy:

[CreekDog]

45. i got nothing

:rofl: :hide:

[Individualist]

20. DLC

[Warren Stupidity]

33. you cannot forbid exclusion and not mandate participation

everyone has to be in the pool or insurance does not work.

[kenny blankenship]

37. He shall be remembered as The Great Mandator

Aetna will build a great marble statue to him in their Hartford Connecticut corporate headquarters. Vice Presidents will doff their hats as they pass by. The CEO will lay a wreath every year to commemorate the passage of the Guaranteed Profits, No Matter What Act of 2010.

[Sebastian Doyle]

41. Baucus?

This piece of shit bill is the one he wrote, for the most part. Not the slightly less crappy one Chris Dodd wrote and attached Ted Kennedy's name to.