Question: Can we improve on the HCR once it's passed?

[Hawkeye-X]

Like removing the dead time between now and 2014?

Give adults their needed treatment?

Public option?

State single payer option?

Removing the Stupidak amendment (if it's still there on the final HCR bill)

Guarantee access to lower cost medical care?

Revoking the anti-trust exemption on the insurance industry (A start in removing the insurance companies out of health care)

Anything else can be added here.

Hawkeye-X

[Enrique]

1. after 2016 at the earliest, imo

Obama will be re-elected in 2012 in all likelihood, and as long as Obama is there it won't be possible.

[gateley]

2. K&R -- I don't have any answers but I want to see the responses of others

who understand it better than I.

MY question is -- WHEN can we move on Grayson's Medicare Buy-In plan?

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Yes, they are called amendments

Amendments can be separate bills, or parts of other bills that are passed.

Many bills have clauses that are written to amend other bills. The current health care bill amends, at minimum, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Schip bill. The bundle of amendments they are passing to this bill amends laws covering tuition assistance and tuition aid in universities.

[Extend a Hand]

4. The Grayson bill

would be an improvement. Then we could lobby for subsidies to cover the cost of the Medicare buy-in.

[shraby]

5. My best guess is that's the game plan. Get the camel's nose

in the tent first and before long, he's eating the insurance company's lunch.

[mbperrin]

6. Goldman Sachs is sure that they can change it to their benefit.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/insurers-keep-climbing-as-key-vote-nears-2010-03-19?siteid=yhoof

Insurers keep climbing as health vote nears on Capitol Hill
By Russ Britt, MarketWatch
LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch) -- Shares of insurers kept climbing Friday as uncertainty over a health-care reform package nearing a key vote in Congress seemed to clear. Virtually all the major insurers were up 2% or more in early trading, gaining in the face of a broadly lower U.S. stock market. Aetna Inc. (NYSE:AET) led the way, climbing 3.6%, followed closely by Cigna Corp. (NYSE:CI) , rising 2.8%. Shares of UnitedHealth Group Inc. (NYSE:UNH) and WellPoint Inc. (NYSE:WLP) , the nation's two biggest insurers, climbed by well more than 2% and HealthNet Inc. (NYSE:HNT) neared the 2% level. The only company to make marginal gains was Humana Inc. (NYSE:HUM)

In a note to clients, Sachs analyst Matthew Borsch said the clouds over how health-care reform would fare in Congress have cleared now that the House has released its plans for a reconciliation bill designed to win passage through the Senate.

"We believe the market reaction reflects, one, investor anticipation that health reform uncertainty will finally subside, and, two, that most of the reconciliation bill provisions were largely as expected," Borsch wrote in his note.

He added that there could be significant risks for the industry as new insurance exchanges to be set up under provisions of the legislation could bring about what he called "adverse selection." The planned elimination of medical underwriting will be coupled with a weak coverage mandate.

"However, the implementation timing leaves 3 1/2 years to work through -- and potentially modify -- provisions that might undermine successful coverage expansion," Borsch said.

[laughingliberal]

14. Yes. Much more likely changes to the bill will be in favor of the various industries.

No reason to believe they won't be working very hard and spending many more millions of their customers' money to lobby for more provisions that will screw those very customers.

I'm not sure how we think we're going to get any favorable changes when we couldn't even get a public option with an average of 70% of the American public in favor of it.

[mbperrin]

15. Right, and industry profits will grow, and they can use their

Supreme Court "right" to use money as free speech to counter those in the trenches who have energy and goodwill, but sadly, no real lobby dollars.

[subterranean]

7. I doubt our representatives will be in any hurry to start amending this bill

once it is passed. I suspect most of them will be happy if they never hear the words "health care reform" again.

[MineralMan]

8. We can't, but our elected representatives can, and at any time

they choose. Once again, the importance of participating in the 2010 elections is paramount. If the GOOPers get control, I can guarantee that any good provisions in the bill will be gutted.

[NightWatcher]

9. they didnt have the votes to "Fix it now", they wont have the votes (or desire) to fix it later

[leftstreet]

10. Of course! Just look at how they improved NAFTA!

oh...wait

[Tailormyst]

11. Think of NAFTA

How it was going to be fixed. Instead, it has destroyed much of our middle class.

[dflprincess]

12. Oh sure

True even with their big majorities this insurance scam was the "best" the Democrats could do - but just wait until they lose some of those seats, then they'll fix the bill so we actually have access to health care.

Right after they move to the next item on the DLC hit list; "reforming" Social Security & Medicare. :scared:

[Hawkeye-X]

18. DLC is going bankrupt

both financially and morally.

Actually, more than I think about it, more morally bankrupt.

Removing all DLC dogma and telling those a-holes if they want to remain DLC, then they must cross sides because their ideology is similar to Republican (not teabaggers').

Hawkeye-X

[Individualist]

19. Where did you hear that DLC is going bankrupt?

They're a stealth organization that won't even publish a members list, so I'll be interested in seeing about DLC bankruptcy.

As for morality, they've been morally bankrupt since their beginning, and they are in control of government now.

"It (DLC) will work closely with allies in Congress and the administration to make sure President Obama and his reform agenda succeeds." Al From
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=254927

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. It's always been morally bankrupt -

which is why Gore and Edwards both repudiated it, and why Obama tried to distance himself from it (until he was elected, and brought it back to the WH, that is).

[Individualist]

13. "we" can, but "we" won't.

[jody]

16. Agree. n/t

[kestrel91316]

17. We certainly can, and should. As soon as its flaws start causing problems for people,

pressure to amend the law will start. Good government policy is always a WORK IN PROGRESS. We just have to keep applying pressure to get what we ultimately want, which is single payer.

Keep your eyes on the prize.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Problem is, there is NOTHING in this bill that could be amended to

lead to single-payer. Single payer is the OPPOSITE of this bill, which is firmly rooted in private insurance.

It's going to take a whole NEW movement. This one is over.

[subterranean]

24. The ONLY way we'll ever get single payer in this country

is if it begins at the state level. This bill gives states the option to do that, starting in 2017. I'm not sure why they have to wait until 2017. Some states seem ready to do it earlier.

[kestrel91316]

25. Single payer simply CANNOT pass right now. But when this one fails badly

enough, for enough people, that will change.

Patience, grasshopper.

I may not see healthcare justice in my lifetime, and may die as a consequence, but I can see a path to a better system for those who follow. It will have its curves and bumps and dead ends, but we CAN get where we want to go.

I am keeping an eye for now on the plans offered by Kaiser because it's the only thing I can possibly afford in the forseeable future. And it turns out Kaiser is a successful model for where we need to go: salaried doctors, heavy emphasis on free or cheap preventive care, reasonable premiums because it's non-profit. It would be simple to go from the Kaiser model to single payer, I suspect. Once HCR passes, I'll see what changes the Kaiser plans go through.

What I DO know is, we are NOT going to see exactly what we want under the current legislative body makeup.

[ShortnFiery]

22. No. eom

[salguine]

23. Passing it without fixing it is the surest way to guarantee it will never get fixed.

[Orangepeel]

26. Sure. Access to the exchanges could be expanded and a medicare buy-in could be added

Expanding the exchange would be the biggest improvement, IMO, as there will already be at least one nonprofit and the system works great for federal employees. But it's a bonus if a medicare buy-in is added.

I wouldn't bet big money on those happening, but it'd be a simple way to improve upon the current bill after it is passed.

[Bluebear]

27. Yes. Witness DADT and NAFTA.

[walldude]

28. +1.. the question isn't can we but will we...

The whole reason there is a hard core split in the party right now is that some people are still going to stand in front of the football and hope it doesn't get pulled away, while some of us have had enough of it being pulled away. I actually envy the people with optimism, it seems the people who want this bill to pass hate it as much as I do but they see something I don't. From my perspective, being told our ideas are "fucking retarded" and watching Obama on FOX try to win over the people who do really hate him by throwing us all under the bus is enough for me not to trust that they will "fix" anything.

[Bluebear]

29. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if this crew tweaks it to make it WORSE afterward.

[EFerrari]

32. I can hear the industry developing work arounds right now.

How anyone can expect these vultures to play fair is just completely beyond me.

[EFerrari]

31. Maybe "will they". The Supreme Court just handed over what was left

of our political power to big money. So Rahm can insult us night and day and Obama can, too, if it works for him and it seems to, and there's zip consequences to them that I can see, anyway.

[Ignis]

36. Zing!

Well played. :toast:

[AngryOldDem]

30. Why not improve it now?

What will be the incentive to do anything once this is law, especially as it concerns the insurance companies? Anti-trust laws, IMO, should have been applied to the industry long before now. So I'm not really optimistic that things will change once this bill becomes law.

[county worker]

33. If this bill doesn't pass I think the Dems will be so weakened that we will not have a chance

any time soon to make improvements.

[frylock]

34. it would be too disruptive

[laughingliberal]

35. If I thought that was likely, I would be more inclined to support the bill

But watching the progressives get rolled by the corporate interests and the White House, I would be damned surprised to see any positive changes to the bill after passage.